PDA

View Full Version : Amur Maples...Plein Air...Step by Step...Pastel


Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 10:46 AM
This is a pastel from a few weeks ago done on site.
11x14, Wallis paper(white) mounted on board, using a gouache underpainting.

Compositionally, this is an Inverted V design with all of the movement flowing from the Maple up and out, or down and in as if a 'funnel'. In this case the 'out' doesn't last long because the color of the red is so intense that I plan on that keeping the eye in the picture.

Step 1- After a graphite drawing indicating placement of the large shapes, I use gouache to scrub in approximate color of the major shapes.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2004/37743-pastel-demo-1-nov.jpg

Step 2- Next I broadly lay on pastel in an 'open' stroke so as not to fill in the tooth too soon. Although on the Wallis that's not as big a problem. If you do fill in the tooth too soon, just scrub it off and start again.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2004/37743-pastel-demo-2-nov.jpg

Step 3- Continuing to add to the detail in the shapes from large to small. There are some small shapes that are necessary to include even in the early stages. But in general in order to keep the image moving along, I try to resist them as long as possible. In a subject that is this close to me, about all I see is the effect of the light on the 'sparkling' fall leaves. They are very tempting because they are 'the' reason that the scene appealed to me.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2004/37743-pastel-demo-3-nov.jpg

Final- 'Amur Maples' - 11x14 - pastel on white Wallis Paper
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2004/37743-pastel-demo-final-nov.jpg

Closeup
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2004/37743-pastel-demo-detail-nov.jpg

And in case you think my eyeballs have lost their sanity and only see red...I had all I could do to try to tone this thing down, it's an unbelievable red color!
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2004/37743-amur-maples.jpg

JamieWG
11-05-2004, 11:09 AM
Marc, another stunner! The bold, colorful trees are gorgeous. I love the way you did the foreground, with the softer colors and violet shadows. Beautiful. You did indeed tone down some of that red! LOL... I notice you have a lot of variety in the colors of the branches too. Do you break off tiny pieces to do those?

Thanks for sharing your wip. I always wondered why you preferred the white Wallis paper to the lovely shade of the warm grey Wallis, but now that I see your underpainting, I assume that it is because of the gouache underpainting. Is that right?

Jamie

Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 11:14 AM
Marc, another stunner! The bold, colorful trees are gorgeous. I love the way you did the foreground, with the softer colors and violet shadows. Beautiful. You did indeed tone down some of that red! LOL...

Thanks for sharing your wip. I always wondered why you preferred the white Wallis paper to the lovely shade of the warm grey Wallis, but now that I see your underpainting, I assume that it is because of the gouache underpainting. Is that right?

Jamie
Thanks Jamie,
I use more Belgian Mist than white. But for this one, I thought that I needed all of the help I could get from the more brilliant white with the underpainting. I rarely use an underpainting now with the Belgian Mist, but always do with the White. So really, the B.Mist saves time on site for those more fleeting light effects, not having to spend the time underpainting and waiting for that to dry. Winter is definately a Belgian Mist paper season, I've had the wash freeze on the paper in the past!

OOPs...on the fine lines, GIRAULT's...a sharp edge by breaking or sanding on a sanding pad and you can really get some fine lines.

Tom Christopher
11-05-2004, 11:19 AM
[QUOTE=paintbox1]This is a pastel from a few weeks ago done on site.
11x14, Wallis paper(white) mounted on board, using a gouache underpainting.



HI Marc --thanks for the demo.. it's great as aways-- I would like to try this process for my next project but I was wondering about the gouache underpainting. Exactly what is it?- Also do you vaccum mount the wallis paper to the hard suface ?..thank you Tom

Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 11:24 AM
[QUOTE=paintbox1]This is a pastel from a few weeks ago done on site.
11x14, Wallis paper(white) mounted on board, using a gouache underpainting.



HI Marc --thanks for the demo.. it's great as aways-- I would like to try this process for my next project but I was wondering about the gouache underpainting. Exactly what is it?- Also do you vaccum mount the wallis paper to the hard suface ?..thank you Tom

Hi Tom, Thanks for looking. Gouache is opaque watercolor, sometimes called 'body' color. Winsor & Newton makes a good one, as does Talens and others.
The reason I use gouache instead of watercolor is that it is stronger in pigment tinting strength so the job gets done faster. I just squeeze out the tube colors into a plastic palette (watercolor palette w/compartments), and wet when needed. They re-wet very easily and are very workable.
I'd like to Vacuum mount, but all I do is use an acid free PVA glue like Lineco.

nancymae
11-05-2004, 11:37 AM
Thanks Marc for this demo! I love your colors that you used! I love these demos that give a great idea of your process! I'm rating this an EXCELLENT!! I have also used acrylics as an underpainting for pastels...never thought about gouache! Thanks for the tips!!

Keep 'em coming! I have learned sooo much from your painting demos! :clap:

Nancy

Helen Zapata
11-05-2004, 11:38 AM
This is wonderful! I LOVE your WIPs!

Why do you mount your paper to board, instead of just using it as is?

And do you use pastel pencils to get those delicate branches?

I just got my Giraults Landscape set, and pulled out my first piece of Wallis paper (Belgian Mist) this morning. I'm almost afraid to start! It all seems too "good" to use!

Oh, and while I'm here.. I keep wanting to ask you how you get your plein air pastel paintings home safely? I spaced out the other day and tucked it under my arm! uh.. that didn't work very well. lol

Helen

Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 11:44 AM
Thanks Marc for this demo! I love your colors that you used! I love these demos that give a great idea of your process! I'm rating this an EXCELLENT!! I have also used acrylics as an underpainting for pastels...never thought about gouache! Thanks for the tips!!

Keep 'em coming! I have learned sooo much from your painting demos! :clap:

Nancy
Thank you Nancy. I use gouache instead of acrylic because it can be washed off....and out of a brush when I forget to. I use a WN University (nylon flat) so as not to ruin a good sable or bristle.

Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 11:54 AM
This is wonderful! I LOVE your WIPs!

Why do you mount your paper to board, instead of just using it as is?

And do you use pastel pencils to get those delicate branches?

I just got my Giraults Landscape set, and pulled out my first piece of Wallis paper (Belgian Mist) this morning. I'm almost afraid to start! It all seems too "good" to use!

Oh, and while I'm here.. I keep wanting to ask you how you get your plein air pastel paintings home safely? I spaced out the other day and tucked it under my arm! uh.. that didn't work very well. lol

Helen

Hi Helen, appreciate the comments, thanks.

I use both, mounted and not mounted. But I frame some of these, more and more, with a wide frame and no mat. If it is mounted to a board I don't have as many worries that the paper will 'sag' when in the frame. Also, I get the paper pretty wet and even though this stuff flattens out well, I don't want to wait that long outside, and I 'hate' working on the paper when it is anything else but 'FLAT'. So mounting solves that, and I like the hard surface that it has mounted.

I have p.pencils, but I seldom use them. I prefer a sharp edge of (usually a Girault) either that has been broken or sanded to an edge. But they are the best for those fine lines no doubt.

Well, I haven't tried carrying them under the arm...LOL...can see a problem with that! I have some cardboard flats with foam core lids, and I set them in there flat on a flat surface like the floor. If they're on paper and space is scarce, too much junk in the car, I tape them to the windows. I almost forgot to mention...if you have power windows...BE CAREFUL! :D

LeeHaber
11-05-2004, 12:29 PM
Hi Marc, This is simply marvelous!!! The grace and delicate nature
of the trees are beautifully done. I can smell the air! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Regards, Lee
P.S. Enjoyed the demo.

Helen Zapata
11-05-2004, 12:30 PM
:D at power windows! Sounds like something I would learn the hard way! That's so smart though.. taping them to the windows! I bet that's a sight to see as you are driving home!

I never have much luck with good lines with pastel pencils, so I'm glad it's not just me.

Thanks for all the info! The paper on board sounds very cool.

Helen

coh
11-05-2004, 12:47 PM
Yep, another beauty Marc. Many have said it before, but you make trees
look so easy. I look at your work and say to myself "so that's how to paint
foliage masses that look realistic but not photorealistic", then I go out and
make a mess of them. Maybe I need to spend some time this winter
copying Hanson trees (hmm, but that would subtract time from the color
charts and theory books...tough choice!).

Probably would be very difficult to get all those subtle color shifts in an oil
painting done alla prima, don't you think? Particularly that grassy field with
the intermingled yellows, violets and greens. Pastels seem to be really good
for that kind of effect.

Chris

Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 12:51 PM
Hi Marc, This is simply marvelous!!! The grace and delicate nature
of the trees are beautifully done. I can smell the air! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Regards, Lee
P.S. Enjoyed the demo.
All of those clappers??? Wow, Thanks Lee. Pastel does lend itself to some refinement that, at least in my case, oil doesn't. The air smells pretty good up where this was done!

RI painter
11-05-2004, 01:00 PM
great stuff once again Marc!
Jon

Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 01:00 PM
Yep, another beauty Marc. Many have said it before, but you make trees
look so easy. I look at your work and say to myself "so that's how to paint
foliage masses that look realistic but not photorealistic", then I go out and
make a mess of them. Maybe I need to spend some time this winter
copying Hanson trees (hmm, but that would subtract time from the color
charts and theory books...tough choice!).

Probably would be very difficult to get all those subtle color shifts in an oil
painting done alla prima, don't you think? Particularly that grassy field with
the intermingled yellows, violets and greens. Pastels seem to be really good
for that kind of effect.

Chris
Nice to say Chris...thanks. I don't know about others, but since I started using pastels it's been a real plus when deciding what subject to tackle. I find that there are some subjects that I don't even want to paint with oils, but am chomping at the bit to tackle with pastel. It may have to do with how I see the finished image before starting, if it's real complicated and made up of lots of small flecks and spots of color then it'll probably end up a pastel. If it's a broader approach with large juicy shapes, it's an oil. That may be strange, I don't know, but that's how it works and if I don't fight it, I'm better off.

Pastels are great for 'experimenting' on the spot. If I feel like throwing a violet haze into an area, it's a simple matter to try it fast and correct it fast. If I tried that with oils, I have to spend some time if it doesn't look good cleaning up the mess just created. The pastels have influenced the oils in that regard. Some of the things that I have used in pastel successfully have been incorporated into how I use oil paint, especially concerning color.

frisbee1948
11-05-2004, 01:02 PM
:D at power windows! Sounds like something I would learn the hard way!

I would recommend using the SIDE windows rather than the windshield. :evil:

lsaeta
11-05-2004, 01:08 PM
Marc,
Until I saw the photo, I didn't think the color of that tree could be real. I must come to Minnesota and see these myself! California just does not grow trees like that!
I have one question. Do you head out for the day knowing you will use pastels rather than oils? Or are you ouftiffted for both, and you decide once you find the spot to paint?
Leslie

Lorijo
11-05-2004, 01:10 PM
Beautiful as usual Marc! I love it! Thanks for the demo too, its nice to see how you work. Lorijo

Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 01:15 PM
Marc,
Until I saw the photo, I didn't think the color of that tree could be real. I must come to Minnesota and see these myself! California just does not grow trees like that!
I have one question. Do you head out for the day knowing you will use pastels rather than oils? Or are you ouftiffted for both, and you decide once you find the spot to paint?
Leslie
Hi Leslie,
I know what you mean, I moved out here from N.California in part just to be abe to be around this kind of thing.But, you'd better hurry! This is a state park that is in the process of being entirely restored to the native flora and these Amur Maples are not native. So the park is in the process of removing them all! It's a shame because they are such a contrast to the more tame yellows and other reds, and they grow fairly tall surrounding several walk-in campgrounds and are the only cover for the campsites.

I carry pastel and oil supplies in the vehicle at all times. I usually have a pretty good idea of what I want to do for the day, but I've been caught out without one or the other and have been sorry. So now both are available if needed.

Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 01:18 PM
Beautiful as usual Marc! I love it! Thanks for the demo too, its nice to see how you work. Lorijo
Thank you Lorijo! I do this standing on my head...didn't show that tho'! :evil: :D

lsaeta
11-05-2004, 01:26 PM
Marc,
I can't believe anyone would consider removing a tree like this. But, once they are gone I think it means your paintings of these trees will be worth a lot more! (That's how it works, right?)
Can't wait to own one of your paintings soon! You really have a gift and your daily postings (especially the WIP's) are a huge inspiration for us beginners!
Leslie

Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 01:26 PM
I would recommend using the SIDE windows rather than the windshield. :evil:
That's a good idea!

And...don't tape them so that the people OUTSIDE the car can see the image! :evil: ;)

Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 01:30 PM
Marc,
I can't believe anyone would consider removing a tree like this. But, once they are gone I think it means your paintings of these trees will be worth a lot more! (That's how it works, right?)

Wrong! :wink2: Wishful thinking, and I thank you again.

It's still a beautiful park and to tell you the truth from a painters point of view....they're TOO red! They seem to be lit and glowing from the inside. Very tough to capture with mere pigments.

blondheim12
11-05-2004, 01:37 PM
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love,
Linda

Helen Zapata
11-05-2004, 02:11 PM
That's a good idea!

And...don't tape them so that the people OUTSIDE the car can see the image! :evil: ;)

Gee.. if you drive to your location, this could solve the whole easel thing... just tape it to the outside of the windows! Betcha it would hold up to the wind too... no tipping cars that I know of! Then afterwards, drive to the local art fair, and you're all set up! :D

Helen

Gilberte
11-05-2004, 02:34 PM
Just too interesting and too beautiful. Admiring the close-up ...

Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 04:12 PM
great stuff once again Marc!
Jon
Thanks Jon, wish you'd do a demo on "How to be reeeeaaalllly prolific!" :wink2:

Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 04:14 PM
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love,
Linda
Yikes! Have never had that comment before Linda. I'll take it. Thank you.

coh
11-05-2004, 04:42 PM
I always wondered how you spell that...

m r pacitti
11-05-2004, 07:51 PM
WOW Marc!!! Amore amur! :D :clap: :clap: :clap: Mike

Asterea
11-05-2004, 07:57 PM
You spell it M A R K H A N S E N :D :D :D
I ordered a box of oil pastels and never having owned any before I have no clue what to do with them LOL. This should prove interesting.
Please keep the wonderfull WIP coming Mark , mabey I will learn enough
to know what to do with my pastels when they get here !!
Its always an inspiration seeing your work :)

James or Jimmy Jim
11-05-2004, 07:58 PM
Well Marc, I work late and almost miss the good stuff. Excellent, my good man! :D

Could you please explain Linda's post? I don't understand the terminology. :D

Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 08:16 PM
WOW Marc!!! Amore amur! :D :clap: :clap: :clap: Mike
Mike...How 'bout them Vikings?! :D :D

Thanks!

Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 08:20 PM
You spell it M A R K H A N S E N :D :D :D

:D I spell it M A R C H A N S O N.....but I have lived with that for a lifetime so all is forgiven!!! :D :D :D

I hope that those 'oilies' work for you. I really appreciate your enthusiasm for the work Asterea. Thank you.

Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 08:24 PM
Well Marc, I work late and almost miss the good stuff. Excellent, my good man! :D

Could you please explain Linda's post? I don't understand the terminology. :D

Glad you made it James! :D Thanks, I mean it!

(part 2)...NO?!

m r pacitti
11-05-2004, 08:29 PM
Mike...How 'bout them Vikings?! :D :D

Thanks!
These Vikings? :confused: http://www.vikings.com/cheerleaders.html

James or Jimmy Jim
11-05-2004, 08:33 PM
These Vikings? :confused: http://www.vikings.com/cheerleaders.html

Ooh yeah. :D :D :D

Pity about those uniforms. :D :D :D You know that I'm talking about life drawing! I'm a married man. :D

Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 08:41 PM
These Vikings? :confused: http://www.vikings.com/cheerleaders.html
BINGO!!! :D :D :D Amore!

blondheim12
11-05-2004, 08:47 PM
It means better than wonderful!!! It is from an old Disney film. I must be getting very old since no one else remembers it.
Love,
Linda

m r pacitti
11-05-2004, 08:48 PM
Ooh yeah. :D :D :D

Pity about those uniforms. :D :D :D You know that I'm talking about life drawing! I'm a married man. :D
:D I know you have a way with words, but how did you explain that to mrs. Jimmy Jim? :D :D :D

m r pacitti
11-05-2004, 08:50 PM
It means better than wonderful!!! It is from an old Disney film. I must be getting very old since no one else remembers it.
Love,
Linda
Linda, I'm so old, I cant remember what I had for breakfast! :D

Marc Hanson
11-05-2004, 08:51 PM
It means better than wonderful!!! It is from an old Disney film. I must be getting very old since no one else remembers it.
Love,
Linda
We're just kidding Linda. Mary Poppins is like peanut butter and jelly in my life!

I like Mike's answer better, I can relate!

Bruce Newman
11-06-2004, 06:32 AM
...If they're on paper and space is scarce, too much junk in the car, I tape them to the windows. I almost forgot to mention...if you have power windows...BE CAREFUL! :D
*laughing really hard* Thanks, Marc. I've got coffee flyin' everywhere here this morning! :D

I just want to thank you for yet another demo. I learn from each of these and this forum is very fortunate to have you here. Thanks so much.

LarrySeiler
11-06-2004, 07:57 AM
I could see using my caseins as an underpainting for this. I had been using acrylics...but casein probably would be altogether better.

I just haven't made that major step in time commitment yet to get Lineco and experience from mounting. I agree...I would prefer to use it mounted with a hard surface to work a bit more agressively. I'll have to order some of that glue and just get to it.

I've not been a major fan of having to mat..space the matting, glass it all in... or let's just say painting with oils or acrylics has been too altogether more convenient, yet I always enjoy the tactile direct effect with pastel. I've got pastels I've done a long time ago yet sitting idle in a pull out drawer because I've never come around to go thru the steps to frame 'em up. hahah...goofy, do the work...then forget about 'em. I'm pretty good for that. Sometimes I go thru my studio...and about once a year open up works I've packaged up and have forgot about. Its always fun...like, "Oh yah...forgot about that one!"....and..."gee, should get this one framed up!"

hahaha....good thing I'm prolific enough to have works in various galleries or a clear case of "what's the point?" could be made.

Your pastel demonstrations are always an inspiration Marc...they are an invitation to what is inside many of us, that call to engage playfully...artfully.

Very lovely...and your time putting this together much appreciated! :clap:

Larry

Marc Hanson
11-07-2004, 09:59 AM
*laughing really hard* Thanks, Marc. I've got coffee flyin' everywhere here this morning! :D

I just want to thank you for yet another demo. I learn from each of these and this forum is very fortunate to have you here. Thanks so much.
I hope you didn't burn anything Bruce! Thanks for taking the time to have a look. It's a fun...and...educational place. :D

Marc Hanson
11-07-2004, 10:06 AM
I could see using my caseins as an underpainting for this. I had been using acrylics...but casein probably would be altogether better.

I just haven't made that major step in time commitment yet to get Lineco and experience from mounting. I agree...I would prefer to use it mounted with a hard surface to work a bit more agressively. I'll have to order some of that glue and just get to it.

I've not been a major fan of having to mat..space the matting, glass it all in... or let's just say painting with oils or acrylics has been too altogether more convenient, yet I always enjoy the tactile direct effect with pastel. I've got pastels I've done a long time ago yet sitting idle in a pull out drawer because I've never come around to go thru the steps to frame 'em up. hahah...goofy, do the work...then forget about 'em. I'm pretty good for that. Sometimes I go thru my studio...and about once a year open up works I've packaged up and have forgot about. Its always fun...like, "Oh yah...forgot about that one!"....and..."gee, should get this one framed up!"

hahaha....good thing I'm prolific enough to have works in various galleries or a clear case of "what's the point?" could be made.

Your pastel demonstrations are always an inspiration Marc...they are an invitation to what is inside many of us, that call to engage playfully...artfully.

Very lovely...and your time putting this together much appreciated! :clap:

Larry
Larry, yep get some Lineco, it's easy to use and I feel comfortable with it's archival standing.
I suppose any medium is useful as an underpainting as long as it doesn't have any 'body' to it. The thing about watercolor or gouache is that it never permanently dries in the brushes and I have a tendency to want to get to the pastel before entirely washing out the brush. Casein or acrylic would do a number my brushes!
The demos are a lot of fun. When in the intense concentration of making a painting tho', it is an effort to stop, set up and shoot a step, and then get back into the 'mindset' of the job at hand.
Fortunately, teaching also requires the same switching from work to explanation, so I'm used to it to some degree.

Thanks for the comments.

mnpainter
11-07-2004, 02:32 PM
Marc,

Thanks for the demo as always!! I like to see that things remain the same in painting and pastels as far as approach to handling the pigments, It makes it alittle easier on someone starting to fool around with pastels more and more. Thanks again for the step by step!!

Ben Bauer

tk04
11-07-2004, 03:48 PM
I really like this one. The threes are so light.

When I saw the photo, I wondered whether it could be wildlife - I saw from one of the other postings that it wasn't. But that three is very huge. I've seen that red leaves on smaller bushes, or alike, but not on a whole three.

What a temptation - to try pastels. I have decided to stick with oil now, so I will try to resist. I did pastels some years ago, one or two even outdoor, but I had to use fixative.

DFGray
11-07-2004, 06:41 PM
thanks for the demo great colour as always
I wonder if you feel the underpainting sets shapes in place
early on in the piece that are difficult to adjust as you lay on pastel?

Yax
11-07-2004, 07:13 PM
Thanks for showing us the steps to the finish of this wonderful painting. :clap: :clap: :clap: Yax

Marc Hanson
11-08-2004, 09:17 AM
I really like this one. The threes are so light.

When I saw the photo, I wondered whether it could be wildlife - I saw from one of the other postings that it wasn't. But that three is very huge. I've seen that red leaves on smaller bushes, or alike, but not on a whole three.

What a temptation - to try pastels. I have decided to stick with oil now, so I will try to resist. I did pastels some years ago, one or two even outdoor, but I had to use fixative.
Thanks Karin,
By ''wildlife'' I assume you are meaning naturally growing? They aren't native shrubs and the state park system is in the process of removing them all.
Here's another photo from the park.-
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Nov-2004/37743-fall-photo1.jpg

And this one was when I had hiked into the middle of a large grove of these incredible large shrubs. This was an experience that I had to just look at and absorb. My paints and pastels weren't going to do it justice!-
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Nov-2004/37743-fall-photo2.jpg

Marc Hanson
11-08-2004, 09:27 AM
thanks for the demo great colour as always
I wonder if you feel the underpainting sets shapes in place
early on in the piece that are difficult to adjust as you lay on pastel?
Dan,
Thanks. I know what you are getting at and I think the answer is no. I say 'think' because my reason for using the underpainting is to set the shapes in place accurately, although I frequently shift and adjust the pastel as I work. So while I pretty much stick to that underpainting, on purpose, it's not so 'layed in stone' in my mind that I couldn't move away from it if I needed to. As I mentioned if I use the gray paper, or a rare colored paper(I admire what you do with it), I don't use an underpainting. But with the white paper, I like to kill it right away.

Wallis is so forgiving that I could at any time in the process scrub off all of the work and restart without any detrimental effects to the surface. Your question, I think, is probably one that I would answer differently if using Canson or another less toothy paper.

Marc Hanson
11-08-2004, 09:32 AM
Marc,

Thanks for the demo as always!! I like to see that things remain the same in painting and pastels as far as approach to handling the pigments, It makes it alittle easier on someone starting to fool around with pastels more and more. Thanks again for the step by step!!

Ben Bauer
Your welcome Ben. I really feel when using the pastel that I don't have a different approach than I do with oils. There are some technical considerations unique to each, but in terms of massing in large shapes, analyzing and applying color and value and on to the refinements...not a lot of difference.

Did you make it to the Alma/Nelson area? I've been stuck around the house with broken vehicles and everyday tasks to catch up on! :crying:

Marc Hanson
11-08-2004, 09:33 AM
Thanks for showing us the steps to the finish of this wonderful painting. :clap: :clap: :clap: Yax
Thanks Yax. It's appreciated.

JamieWG
11-08-2004, 09:36 AM
Thanks Jamie,
I use more Belgian Mist than white. But for this one, I thought that I needed all of the help I could get from the more brilliant white with the underpainting. I rarely use an underpainting now with the Belgian Mist, but always do with the White. So really, the B.Mist saves time on site for those more fleeting light effects, not having to spend the time underpainting and waiting for that to dry. Winter is definately a Belgian Mist paper season, I've had the wash freeze on the paper in the past!

OOPs...on the fine lines, GIRAULT's...a sharp edge by breaking or sanding on a sanding pad and you can really get some fine lines.

Thank you, Marc. I just got a pad of the Belgian Mist, so I'm glad to hear you like that one too. I really prefer to work on colored paper for pastel. 'Can't wait to test-drive the Wallis paper. I have a five-portrait montage, full sheet, in pastel that I need to finish up this week before allowing myself the luxury of diving into that sea of Belgian Mist paper! <drooling uncontrollably>

Why oh why does it always have to come down to those Girault pastels? LOL.... I should have figured that. As a long-suffering victim of Art Materials Acquisition Syndrome, I think the time to take the plunge is rapidly arriving. Spring may be the best time to get the greens, but I'm sure they make other colors. ;)

Marc, when you mount and frame without a mat, what do you use as spacers between the pastel and the glass? I too love that Lineco bookbinding adhesive!

Those new photos you posted are exquisite. I can imagine your feeling of not being able to capture those reds, but geez, it'd sure be fun to try!

Jamie

Marc Hanson
11-08-2004, 10:18 AM
Thank you, Marc. I just got a pad of the Belgian Mist, so I'm glad to hear you like that one too. I really prefer to work on colored paper for pastel. 'Can't wait to test-drive the Wallis paper. I have a five-portrait montage, full sheet, in pastel that I need to finish up this week before allowing myself the luxury of diving into that sea of Belgian Mist paper! <drooling uncontrollably>

Why oh why does it always have to come down to those Girault pastels? LOL.... I should have figured that. As a long-suffering victim of Art Materials Acquisition Syndrome, I think the time to take the plunge is rapidly arriving. Spring may be the best time to get the greens, but I'm sure they make other colors. ;)

Marc, when you mount and frame without a mat, what do you use as spacers between the pastel and the glass? I too love that Lineco bookbinding adhesive!

Those new photos you posted are exquisite. I can imagine your feeling of not being able to capture those reds, but geez, it'd sure be fun to try!

Jamie

Sounds like an interesting project that you're working on Jamie.

A.M.A.A.S. is a great reason to go for the ........! They make so many more colors than just greeeeeeeeen, you're going to have lot's of fun applying the Syndrome. :D

On the smaller sized pastels I've been using Econospace plastic spacers. I've even used them on some larger ones, but think I'll try the Framespace, they sound more secure. I've also used 8-ply rag strips cut to fit and then painted dark gray, and used to use foam core(before I even knew that there was acid free foam core...15 years or so ago).

Those trees/shrubs were just so intense that it felt spiritual, time to just sit back and absorb. I used to do this when I was duck hunting and it pi**ed off my hunting companions. They'd put me on a great point for shooting, a huge flock of birds would be swarming us like locusts and I'd just sit and watch. All shooting a gun or camera did was take away from the 'actual' experience that had me enthralled. You can't replace that sensation with a photo, painting or bird in the hand! :D

Besides that, I've tried...it ain't pretty!

Gilberte
11-08-2004, 01:03 PM
Offered myself another look on your great demo ... and learned about Belgian Mist .......... paper ...... of which I never heard ;)
Never too late to learn hé ?

mnpainter
11-08-2004, 05:06 PM
Marc,

Couldnt make it :rolleyes: , things going on at work are alittle busy, also when it came down to it I had to choose between that rip or going to the cabin in Alexandria to hunt ducks, soo close to the end I wanted to hunt with mass migration starting somewhat. Also thinking that ducks are around central Minn. they will be around the Pepin area this week or next!!! I am just a big fan of watching those birds doing their thing, just awesome to me. If you would like I ll let ya know when it can work for me, I am hoping soon! Weather is now becoming an issue but the h$ll with the weather if there is a will there is always a way!!!

Thanks

Ben Bauer

Phyllis Rennie
11-08-2004, 08:18 PM
Love those colors!

PS the other elements of the painting are well done too! :D

bcraver
11-10-2004, 07:18 PM
I really appreciate the step by step, thank you very much. And the piece is absolutely terrific - vibrant. I envy the way you suggested distant trees in the upper left area - I will try and learn from your example.

I am VERY interested in the framing issues you mentioned - can you elaborate?

Larry, yep get some Lineco, it's easy to use and I feel comfortable with it's archival standing.

On the smaller sized pastels I've been using Econospace plastic spacers. I've even used them on some larger ones, but think I'll try the Framespace, they sound more secure.

So, I can't tell if you mount your paper to the foamcore or whatever backing you use ahead of time or if is it possible to apply the adhesive to the foamcore and press it onto the back of a completed pastel? (Using glassine on the pastel surface facing down). I have a pastel painted on Wallis, 18 x 24 that I would like to try and frame using Framespaces and a wider frame. I am assuming that it would be prudent to somehow adhere the Wallis (museum grade) to the foamcore and not depend on the "grip" of the Framespace to keep it in place.

Why I don't mount the paper ahead of time: I am afraid of jinxing a work by setting it up with a backing ahead of time - that makes it too "special", how will I know that this will be one I want to frame . . . .

I am considering the Framespace method because of too many bad experiences of getting stray pastel dust on the front of the mat - even with spacers and the best, most careful thumping on the piece . . . .

Thank you for any information you share!!!

Marc Hanson
11-10-2004, 07:59 PM
Gilberte, According to Kitty Wallis the tone looked a lot like Belgian Linen but she thought that buyers may think that they would be getting a paper with that same texture that linen has. So the name change to 'Belgian Mist'. What ever it's called, it's great paper.

Thanks Phyllis.

Lampburke
11-10-2004, 08:09 PM
The maples painting is astounding. Thank you for sharing it!

Marc Hanson
11-10-2004, 08:29 PM
I really appreciate the step by step, thank you very much. And the piece is absolutely terrific - vibrant. I envy the way you suggested distant trees in the upper left area - I will try and learn from your example.

I am VERY interested in the framing issues you mentioned - can you elaborate?

So, I can't tell if you mount your paper to the foamcore or whatever backing you use ahead of time or if is it possible to apply the adhesive to the foamcore and press it onto the back of a completed pastel? (Using glassine on the pastel surface facing down). I have a pastel painted on Wallis, 18 x 24 that I would like to try and frame using Framespaces and a wider frame. I am assuming that it would be prudent to somehow adhere the Wallis (museum grade) to the foamcore and not depend on the "grip" of the Framespace to keep it in place.

Why I don't mount the paper ahead of time: I am afraid of jinxing a work by setting it up with a backing ahead of time - that makes it too "special", how will I know that this will be one I want to frame . . . .

I am considering the Framespace method because of too many bad experiences of getting stray pastel dust on the front of the mat - even with spacers and the best, most careful thumping on the piece . . . .

Thank you for any information you share!!!

Hi Barbara,

That is a little confusing, I'll try to clear it up.

If I frame without a mat, I use the spacers, Econospace only up to this point.

I'm like you, I never have a piece mounted when I need it. In that case after it's done, I 'hinge' the paper along the top to a piece, of either acid free foam core or heavy rag matboard(8-ply if I have it), with acid free hinging tape also made by Lineco.

So that package would be glass, spacers, pastel (hinged to), backing board. This entire 'package' is then sealed by taping with framing tape(sorry, also made by Lineco :D ) all around the edges creating a secure package that can be placed into the frame. That means a continuous piece for each side of the package, overlapping the front of the glass, around the edge of the pastel package, and overlapping the backing board. This both seals and protects the pastel and glass until it's in a frame.

The hinges, if you're not familiar, are pieces of tape folded in half and attached to both the back of the pastel and the face of the backing board that faces the back of the pastel paper. Only overlap onto the pastel about a half and inch or less, just enough to hold. If you overlap too much it may show through the paper as an embossment as time goes by.

The hinge looks like this... l ^ l <(you're looking at an end view of) paper..hinge..backing.

After you attach the hinges ( 2 for a small to medium sized piece), use two more small pieces for each hinge (tot 4 pieces) and put them on each end of the hinge tape to form a 'T' as reinforcement. On a piece of the size that you are doing, I'd probably use 3 or 4 hinges spaced evenly across the top. I once hinged and framed a 24x36" piece using this method and it hasn't shown any ill effects to date.

The only time that I use the Lineco is ahead of time to flue the paper to board. I guess you could use Glassine and glue afterwards, but if like me you treasure those nice little impasto finishing strokes, the pressure from weighting the paper/board/glue would probably not preserve them.

I hope that helps clear up what I was saying Barbara.

Bobbo
11-11-2004, 12:36 PM
saw this just before i left and was gobsmacked
not many painters can handle a red maple like you do
so much control,especially in the last stages
i'm impressed......as always......

Helen Zapata
11-11-2004, 01:04 PM
Great info, Marc!

If you are only hinging across the top... what's keeping the painting from floating forward and brushing up against the glass?

Helen

Marc Hanson
11-11-2004, 01:11 PM
Great info, Marc!

If you are only hinging across the top... what's keeping the painting from floating forward and brushing up against the glass?

Helen
Helen,
I think that in the case of Wallis paper, it's the stiffness of the paper. That's all I use, I don't know for sure what to do with a paper like Canson where that could be a problem.

And again, the mounted paper would be ideal.

But a framer did tell me that it's OK to use a hinge along each side of the large ones as 'insurance'. I've done that too, just fold a piece of the tape in half, sticky side out, and attach it by lifting the edge of the pastel and attach to the backing board and pastel.
Usually it hasn't been necessary.

Helen Zapata
11-11-2004, 01:14 PM
I see.. yes, the Wallis is so stiff, I can see how that would work. I love this! Definitely have to try it out! Thanks!

Still loving those maples too. :)

Helen

bcraver
11-11-2004, 06:42 PM
I hope that helps clear up what I was saying Barbara.

Pretty much, thank you so much for all the detail. I'll give it all a try as soon as my free samples of Framespace arrive! If this works out I may take some photos of the process and share.

Thank you again!