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RUNEMASTER
07-29-2005, 02:57 PM
Id like to see some good art from the mind.That is no digital references , photographes,dummies,etc.Nada!


Just the mind.Id like to meet some people like this.

Nitsa
07-29-2005, 03:06 PM
I haven't painted very much in pastels, under 15, but here is one I painted last year from my mind! ;)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Jul-2005/18769-Sundance.JPG

Khadres
07-29-2005, 05:00 PM
The artwork on this page, except for Whitby Abby and Stonehenge, of course, are all from the "mind". They're done with computer tablet and stylus, but my pastels are often "mental" subjects too....or maybe it's just me that is mental...dunno...can't see what it matters. LOL

http://users.adelphia.net/~smpalanuk/gallery.html

Bringer
07-29-2005, 05:13 PM
Hi,

well , my Piece of Cake painting was done from my mind but it got really uninteresting.

Regards,

Josť

RUNEMASTER
07-29-2005, 09:14 PM
Nice flowers.Id like to see more people in the thread.I notice that there seems to be a shortage on responses to posts.Maybe the forum needs more people or something.

Muffin_4377
07-30-2005, 12:45 AM
I've got one......

Did this one awhile ago. I remember I did it while watching a movie, didn't feel like sifting through for a reference, plus it was too dark to rely on a ref or RL object (gotta have the lights low for movie watching)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Jul-2005/36417-Evening_Praise..Oilies.JPG

It's done with OP's. It was just some silly OP play, nothing serious. Never did really like the church or that tree...was happy with the little houses and surrounding foliage.

I also have a few sketch books full of "mind's eye" images. Not too much done with pastel though....hmmmmmm....gonna have to remedy that :D

Queen Bee
07-30-2005, 01:59 AM
I don't usually do paintings without a reference. I think this is the onkly one I have done from my imagination. It happens to be a soft pastel.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jul-2005/48307-abstract2.jpg

RUNEMASTER
07-30-2005, 09:06 AM
Great works ladies.I like them both.

Kathryn Wilson
07-30-2005, 09:37 AM
I moved this thread over to Pastel Talk since this a broader topic than just "soft pastels" - you might get a better response there.

RUNEMASTER
07-30-2005, 10:40 AM
Thanks.

jackiesimmonds
07-30-2005, 10:46 AM
Here are some entirely from the mind.

Pastel:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jul-2005/1805-inspiredbybluebells.jpg

oil:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jul-2005/1805-Red_Spillwc.jpg

HarvestMoon
07-30-2005, 10:51 AM
Nitsa- for someone 'under 15' (or even for someone much older than 15) your work is really really great...
Sooz- I was going to send a long blah blah PM saying to put that beautiful art on a site... fav. is 'Whitby Spirits'
Muffin- I love the church- and everything else in that painting...
QueenBee- do more abstracts this is wonderful...

and Runemaster- will not repost my things but in weekly sketches for the past few weeks, most of my pictures were imaginary.... the fish, etc... but I find if I have some sort of reference the picture turns out much nicer (like my bead lady was a disaster for example...)

Jackie- love the top one esp.

RUNEMASTER
07-30-2005, 10:55 AM
Nice.Captures a mood.

SweetBabyJ
07-30-2005, 11:00 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171916

Nitsa
07-30-2005, 04:10 PM
Nitsa- for someone 'under 15' (or even for someone much older than 15) your work is really really great...

Purples, sorry to confuse you but I am wayyyyyyy over 15 years old. I was referring to how many paintings I had completed in pastel not my age - Shame! ;)

HarvestMoon
07-30-2005, 04:23 PM
LOL Nitsa- I was going to notify the art academies that they needed to give you a scholorship fast....!!

IndigoRed
07-30-2005, 07:49 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264765

I made the same kind of inquiry in the above forum........unfortunately i was made fun of.......and i think i was called stupid , although in a very "articulate" way :rolleyes:

I could have misunderstood, but then again i think I WAS misunderstood as well...........just goes to show some things are still taboo to talk about .........

HarvestMoon
07-30-2005, 08:34 PM
srw2034- I read the thread- and wouldn't worry about it a bit- I know what you were saying about it all- I have made far larger mistakes in my postings (like probably most of them LOL), when lack of sleep and common sense pried my fingers open....(since they were doing the talking instead of my brain/ mouth- although I have similar problems with the mouth issue)....

IndigoRed
07-31-2005, 01:32 AM
Ah but see no one still does not actually "see" what i typed......and when i mean see i mean , read, ponder, come to a conclusion then procede to explain all the above in a form of opinion or advice......

I wasnt trying to belittle copying old master , hell I did it for several years, and learn some. My QUESTION was.....

" How do you know that what you are creating is "your" creation and not just a "method" copy of someone elses?"

In my mind that is a legit question (even if it does lack articulation). After someone has "studied" old masters til they can practically make EXACT copies, how do you know if youve learned anything, besides how to copy what other artists have already created? When do we start to branch off and go in our own directions?

Besides IMO , copying is not the same as actual study. The old masters (well not the ones that most artist want to learn from anyways) did NOT leave behind "how to" manuals of how they did their work. If they did, I do not believe we would spend so much time "analyzing" their paintings, we would just buy their books.
Davinci doesnt count. He did not leave behind how to manuals, he left behind HIS OWN sketches and research, in which case we decided to exploit. He found his "nitch" by doing what artists reallllly want and that is looking at life and recreating it in his own hand. Artists back then were very protective of their works. I do not believe they would be so "honored" if they were still around to see what it has all turned into.

And to an extent purples you are right sleep depravation did leave me lacking in a few areas where i wish i would have elaborated more........like i wish i would have also said "Copying old masters and others techniques for years on end have now crippled me".
And thats exactly how i feel. And now that i have decided to NOT copy ANYONE i feel like im having to learn how to see all over again.....its very nerve wracking to say the least. But it is MY problem, and i will find a way to deal, with or without the help of other artists. Although I was hoping for more than just a stab at my lack of a structured dialog.
I would have apologized in that thread but i felt it was pointless considering that it wasnt just any ol person that replied to my questions, it was a moderator, and embarressing as it is to admit, that was a bit intimidating. Even tho now i think that he could have pondered a little more about my post instead of picking out the negatives (which i did not mean there to be any, but classical artists are very protective of their methods).
In some way i guess todays artists are really no different than those from Davinci's era.......protective and defensive

Sorry my computer rebooted and i did not get to finish what i was saying....

Ill just sum it up ....... Used to i thought that impressionists, abstract artists and such did what they did because they did not want to learn how to draw........and yes i formed that opinion on the basis of actually meeting a few artists in my life that decided that shortcuts like learning how to paint without the neccessities of drawing basics is the best way to go.......well for them it might just be, but i thought them all cowards......why did i think this, from YEARS of reading about classical artists and their downfall thanks to such arstits that i have mentioned above.
So i thought Do i need to compete more? Do i need to study rubens, titain, davinci harder????
And finally i just said...........nope none of the above.....its a new challenge and i hope i learn even more valuable (and usefull) lessons from here on out.....

Disclaimer: Everything mentioned above is of MY OWN OPINION, i have a right to this as do everyone else........"to each his/her own" , "Whatever works for YOU", "Do what you feel is comfortable"........are all statements that ALOT of struggling artists have heard over the years, I just chose now to take all that advice and do so. I mean no unkindness to anyone on the Wetcanvas Forums.
OH and i am no long closed minded about impressionist or abstract artists........PAINT IT UP! SELL IT FOR MILLIONS! at least someone is ;)

Thank you.

RUNEMASTER
07-31-2005, 10:50 AM
No unkindness observed. I like your passion.Passion is what we need.I too am quite passionate and often rock the boat the wrong way.I have not read completely the thread you mention to have had some conflict, but Im eager to finish reading it.

By "copying" images you mean recreating the image whith your own hands.

It is questionable if this is stealing.You are indeed using someones idea, but your rendition of it is just as original as an ancient master rendering a friend or eminent person.

However, I do believe that this behaviour is necessary in the development of certain skills. later it is expected the person could go on to design their own art.Provided they did their homework and copied many different things.For example imagine taking pictures of an arm in many different positions and rendering these 25 times each with your own hands.Teh you should be able to paint an arm whithout any reference.Well if you plan to study figures then you would do this for every part of the figure till you knew it well.The same is my plan.

At the same time I think it goes whithout saying that a truly original artist does not need any reference , but his/her own mind.

To this end I am compelled.
By the way I dont think there was any intentional harm meant in the thread you mention.I think you have certain insecurities about the issue, but who doesnt?We are all human.its ok to be human.Id rather relate to a human though he seem conflicting that a machine with no soul. You have a right to conceive of any thing you desire.But it does seem sensible to believe that practice makes perfect. Some people have much imagination though they may be great technicians.

And sometime those that lack the skill have the imagination.

In the end its all about your way.

-RUNEMASTER

DLJohnson
08-02-2005, 12:59 PM
Hi Steph,

If you are copying a master then it is not your own. Copying is only part of the study IMHO. You have a choice whether to let this cripple you or enhance your own endeavors.

I don't think you were misunderstood at all. You say you believe in it, have done it for years, and don't believe in it as it has crippled you, all in the same breath and that may be why they responded the way they did.

Maybe the time is right for you to step away from the masters for awhile and create your own paintings with your own subject matter. This might be the moment of being on the edge of your own idenity. Like the baby bird leaves the nest kind of thing. Maybe even forget the technical for awhile. For me, sometimes analyzing things too much does zap the creative spirit.

My motto this year: Fly, be free

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Aug-2005/7846-Charlie_Chaplin.gif

PS I would love to see some of your work, original or copies :)

RUNEMASTER
08-02-2005, 02:36 PM
If youve been copying the masters for so long , well that quite some experience.Id like to see what you have learned.Show us something sometime that you have done whithout aids.

I bet if I copied for so long Id be a veritable master myself. My crippling is I have not.

IndigoRed
08-02-2005, 03:26 PM
You can find some of my artwork here on wetcanvas just look for all posts started by me, and it should take you to links of my work.

And i too, would like to see your works.....

I don't think you were misunderstood at all. You say you believe in it, have done it for years, and don't believe in it as it has crippled you, all in the same breath and that may be why they responded the way they did. DLJohnson

I wasnt trying to belittle copying old master , hell I did it for several years, and learn some. My QUESTION was. srw2034

No where in there or anywhere else do i say i believed in it, i only stated that i have done it. Ive been an artist for nearly 20 years. When I started to get efficient with the pencil it was during the time when comic books held my attention (which wasnt for very long). I learned most of my basics from those, perspective, foreshortening, etc.
I guess the word "cripple" was a bit harsh, but at the time thats how i FELT. When an artist (or maybe its just me) has become so wrapped up in creating, getting offtrack is not hard to do.
I heard one time that the next step from obsession is passion. I was always told that it was insanity or something to that effect lol. Yes, at times i do over analyze what i do, but i think that comes from being told most of my life that i have to make a choice right now because indicisiveness is a weakness thats not tolerated. So i looked at everything from every angle. studied all types of artwork by many different artists, read books from decades past to the present. It got to the point where i could not make a straight line unless i had seen another artist make it. I can copy from another artist almost perfectly by looking at it, but doing it from my imagination seemed overly difficult and i couldnt understand why. Now i do.

RUNEMASTER
08-02-2005, 04:32 PM
Srw! Its ok man.Your work is nice. I think your under self imposed pressure.We all want to be masters. I think the problem is weve been programmed to fail(speaking for myself).As we are not allowed in our society to think for ourselves.

Not to go off a tangent , but its true.

We need to forget the whole [email protected]#$^$ , and think freely. I think thats why we become frustrated.Trust me I am frustrated. Because all I see and here in the [email protected]#$^$ media is the same.Same tie dyed blond people, same [email protected]#$^$ notions of beauty which in many cases is ugly(talk about getting a derrier), same mis representations and marginalization of Americans, same lies.Over and over and over, with abosolute shamelessness. Think Ill make a work called eliminate the [email protected]#$^$ media. HEHEH! Plus everywhere I go its the same-"what you think of the game".To which I respond not a hell of a lot.

So hang in there bud Ive been hanging for decades. HEHEHEHE! Call it what you will.

And by the way big brother doesnt like it when we express ourselves. If I am going to be a member here expect a whole lot of expression.

"I am not a number,I am a free man".

IndigoRed
08-02-2005, 04:45 PM
LOL You made me laugh, and i thank you for that lol.

My husband says im either to serious, or to worried, sometimes a snob (tho i dont think he means that, he just thinks all artists are snobs...he doesnt get out much lol)

Ya know i took up writing for a little bit when i couldnt break the monotany at the drafting table........think ill go back to it for awhile :)

RUNEMASTER
08-02-2005, 04:47 PM
Opps ! Your a lady. Pardon Mon ami.

RUNEMASTER
08-02-2005, 04:48 PM
I think you need validation. None of my biz.,But a little snuggling might do the job.HEHEHE!

IndigoRed
08-02-2005, 05:07 PM
Now THATS another discusion all together ;) lol.

RUNEMASTER
08-03-2005, 12:39 AM
Srw? Can you give me an idea of what drafting is all about? Since youve dabbled in it?

RUNEMASTER
08-03-2005, 12:43 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Aug-2005/63397-mirella.jpg

Ive only been doing art for about a month. I consider this my best work.Especially becuase its ver "virgin", and it looks good too.Shes so beautifull.I love her.Shes the proto type of my love. My wife. I have always been attracted to women with jet black hair exclusively.

RUNEMASTER
08-03-2005, 01:32 AM
Question? Is this considered offensive to anyone: [email protected]#$^$

Just curious.If so can someone tell me what it means?Looks like my days with you guys are numbered as i refuse to be so tightly observed and censored. If thats going to be the case then i should find myself a knitting forum.HEHE

Give me liberty or give me knitting forums.The admin considers this offensive.So so much for freedom of expression , and i havnt even spoken my mind out of courtesy.

IndigoRed
08-03-2005, 01:46 AM
http://www.tpub.com/content/draftsman/14263/index.htm

This is where ive been studying draftmanship for awhile now. Very helpful. Received the link from a friend of mine that went into the navy, while i (who was also excepted but decided a different route) went on to other things. :)