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WV.Artistry
10-27-2004, 07:28 PM
Sonnet by the Artist to his Beloved
by Raphael Sanzio

Sweet remembrance! Hour of bliss
When we met, but now the more
I mourn, as when the sailor is
Star-less, distant far from shore.

Now tongue, tho' 'tis with grief, relate
How love deceiv'd me of my joy;
Display the unaccustom'd cheat,
But praise the nymph, and thank the boy.

It was when the declining sun
Beheld another sun arise;
And there were actions should be done,
No talking, only with the eyes.

But I tormented by the fire
That burnt within, was overcome:
Thus when to speak we most desire
The more we find we must be dumb.

WV.Artistry
10-27-2004, 07:30 PM
Although much of Raphael's time in Rome between 1513 and 1520 was devoted to the completion of important commissions for public display, two of his works, one entitled La Velata and the other entitled La Fornarina are of a very private nature.

These paintings depict a woman by the name of Margherita Luti, whom, as Renaissance biographer Giorgio Vasari documented, Raphael was in love with.

Luti was born in Rome to a peasant baker and most likely met Raphael while he was in Rome to complete Papal commissions. She worked as his model for a time and soon, the two fell in love and began an affair.

Raphael was already engaged for many years to Maria Bibbiena, but she died in 1514, before he could marry her. Despite Raphael's seeming availability, Pope Leo X did not permit him to marry Luti due to her peasant class birth.

Other than the mere "unseemliness" of his and Luti's affair and the fact that the two could never marry anyway, Raphael's preoccupation with Luti caused great annoyance for the Pope on an artistic level as well, as Raphael became distracted from his work. Pope Leo X looked to his banker friend, Agostino Chigi for a solution and Chigi suggested a kidnapping.

Luti was taken from Raphael and he was told that she had run off with another man. The artist fell into a depression and soon, (because now his work was completely at a standstill) Pope Leo X was forced to produce Luti unharmed to Raphael and allow the couple to stay together at the Chigi Palace.

In La Fornarina, one can see a clearly painted band around Luti's arm which reads in Latin, "Raphael of Urbino," a sign of his possession of her and of their love. Recently, X-rays were used on the nude of Luti to discover what else (if anything) was painted. The X-ray uncovered a red-stoned ring painted on Luti's hand (probably an engagement ring of some kind).

Raphael died in 1420 at the young age of thirty-seven and after his death, Luti signed herself over to the nuns of the Franciscan Order. During this time, "disgraced" women were able to save themselves from public scrutiny and alienation by joining the convent and most likely these were Luti's motives.

WV.Artistry
10-27-2004, 07:34 PM
La Donna Velata (woman with a veil)
Galleria Palatina (Palazzo Pitti), Florence
Original size: 25.2" x 33.5" (64.0cm x 85.0cm)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Oct-2004/50986-La_Donna_Velata_UL.jpg

WV.Artistry
10-27-2004, 07:43 PM
I should have the sketch completed by the weekend.

Richard

dcorc
10-27-2004, 09:12 PM
Hi Richard - I'll look forward very much to seeing how this develops!

Dave

SallyAnn
10-27-2004, 11:02 PM
Wow Richard.. cant wait to see this started!

Carey Griffel
10-28-2004, 12:16 AM
Richard, I'll be here watching. Thanks for including that added info as it makes it so much more interesting!

~!Carey

Florian
10-28-2004, 07:09 AM
Richard, I also will be watching how this develops. :)

Florian

WV.Artistry
10-29-2004, 12:11 AM
thanks for looking . .

preliminary sketch #1

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Oct-2004/50986-Sketch_12.jpg

paintthepast
10-29-2004, 10:57 AM
Richard,

Your light and shadow look very good on your sketch. A very solid drawing.

If I may be so bold, I do have one critique (if you are interested)---- the right side of her face (the viewer's left) seems to be much wider than it should. With a traditional 3/4 pose the side of the face that turns away from the viewer will be much thinner than the side that faces the viewer. It looks as though the proportions of the face in your sketch are representative of a full frontal view. Sometimes this happens when one starts to look at a face as a series of parts (eyes, eyebrows, mouth,etc.). It also can happen because we have a tendency towards symmetry(to draw one side of the face the same as the other).. but with a 3/4 pose there shouldn't be that symmetry in the drawing. One technique I might suggest is to look at the original in a more abstract way (lines, darks, lights,etc.). Another is to concentrate on the negative space in the original. One last method is to hold the drawing up to a mirror...when you do this, it helps you to see with a new eye.

Hope this helps...


Good Luck,

-cb

loop
10-29-2004, 03:24 PM
Hi Richard - I'll look forward very much to seeing how this develops!

Dave

did you ever finish yours dave ?

WV.Artistry
10-29-2004, 07:32 PM
If I may be so bold, I do have one critique . . .


Charles,

Only one?

:)

I'm much more harsh in my own self-critique.

I can see something particular I think Raphael did here to denote solid geometry (or his own problems with it). And if I'm allowed more guesses, he may have used purposeful lack of detail in a few specific geometric points -- letting the viewer's brain resolve them instead of doing so in paint.

That was sketched last night outside a bookstore.

I like doing these to work out the bugs and note the problem areas before beginning. I'll do a preliminary of the hands tonight, and tomorrow morning, stretch the canvas 26x34.

In the chess of painting, I've decided my first brush-strokes at this point, and have worked through most of the alchemy for my three layers of underpainting.

Thanks for looking, and the comments.

Richard

WV.Artistry
10-29-2004, 10:28 PM
did you ever finish yours dave ?

This doesn't have to be a closed-end thread for just me, Dave. Or, if you want to start a new thread, I'll join you there.

But unfinished . . . alone in the monestary, makes me think that if I do this thing by myself, then I'm writing "Belongs to Richard" on her armband.

;)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Oct-2004/50986-Raphael_Portrait_of_a_Young_Woman_La_Fornarina_ul.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Oct-2004/50986-Margherita_Luti_002.jpg

WV.Artistry
10-29-2004, 10:45 PM
p.s.

thanks for link re: Ingres

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Oct-2004/50986-Ingres_Raphael_and_the_Fornarina_ul.jpg

dcorc
10-30-2004, 06:11 AM
p.s.

thanks for link re: Ingres

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Oct-2004/50986-Ingres_Raphael_and_the_Fornarina_ul.jpg

Ah yes - "Look back in Ingres" :p

did you ever finish yours dave ?

All the fun went out of the relationship, alas. I might try and pick her up again in the future - "what's a nice girl like you doing in a lace like that" :D

Dave

WV.Artistry
10-30-2004, 12:48 PM
Cris Field, self-proclaimed outside artist, board member of Central Florida Women's Caucus for Art, if you're reading this -- you overlooked my ineptitude and stretched this canvas for me. You had patience in teaching me how to do this, again. And for being one of the nicest people I've ever met . . . it falls short, but I mean it sincerely :

Thanks.

:)

Michael-Ann
10-30-2004, 01:39 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Oct-2004/50986-Sketch_12.jpg

There seem to be multitudes of secrets in her eyes don't there?!

...pulling up my chair now, no pressure, just gonna sit quietly and watch, yep...

WV.Artistry
10-31-2004, 03:17 PM
There's a scene in "A Knight's Tale" where Geoffrey Chaucer heralds to Sir Urlrich Von Lichtenstein of Gelderland, "There she is -- the love of your life!" Or something like that. As Urlrich closes his visor to joust, he responds with a bemoan, "And oh how I hate her."

Still working on my sketch . . . be kind, I've been listening to her complain all night.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Oct-2004/50986-WIP_Sketch.jpg

WV.Artistry
10-31-2004, 03:21 PM
If you were wondering . . .

OKHRY
Rouge Ercolano

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Oct-2004/50986-French_Ochre.jpg

http://www.okhra.com/

WV.Artistry
11-02-2004, 09:17 AM
Still working on my sketch . . .

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Nov-2004/50986-WIP_Sketch.jpg

Florian
11-02-2004, 05:13 PM
Great sketch Richard. I never did such a detailed sketch, Im always to impatient to start with colours.

Florian

WV.Artistry
11-02-2004, 06:13 PM
Great sketch Richard. I never did such a detailed sketch, Im always to impatient to start with colours.

Florian

Thanks for looking Florian . . . if the painting was simple, it wouldn't be necessary to go to such great lengths, but there are subtle details that I need to work out before painting -- I'll use the sketch as a map. Personally, I think my drawing skills are weak, clumsy, and I know how to do some things in paint that I can't do with a sketch. It's helping me to find the weak areas, difficult, or problem areas.

As you can probably appreciate with your renditions, Bouguereau referred his students to Raphael. Another time, we can discuss some things I've seen that Bouguereau borrowed directly from Raphael. The color of this veil is one of them . . . and I have my guess how to make this color -- wish me luck.

Richard

Rosic
11-03-2004, 11:22 AM
Richard... I love to watch your WIP works. The time you spend on each step plus your attention to detail (not to mention the great info you share with us) is very much appreciated by me and others here. This one is looking top notch.

Again... those folds are looking superb!

Bern

Having a cup of coffee right now wishing I was seeing this one in person.

WV.Artistry
11-03-2004, 12:56 PM
Bernie :)

Thanks for looking . . .

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2004/50986-WIP_Sketch.jpg

WV.Artistry
11-03-2004, 01:15 PM
w/i/p sketch detail
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2004/50986-WIP_Sketch_Detail.jpg


A Sonnet by Richard

She's blind,
but knows it's just a way for her to
sleep with open eyes --
no colors for the sky,
out here . . . on this empty sea.
The wind fills her sails,
and carries her ever
heaven bound to me.

She only sees . . .
me,
-- when she
dreams.

Florian
11-03-2004, 04:35 PM
Wow Bruce great sketch of the fabrics and the detail of the eye is very good.
I wonder what colour will you use for the fabrics. Nice poem, its yours?.

Florian :wave:

WV.Artistry
11-03-2004, 04:45 PM
Wow Bruce great sketch of the fabrics and the detail of the eye is very good.
I wonder what colour will you use for the fabrics. Nice poem, its yours?.

Florian :wave:

Thanks for looking.

It's a verse from a song I wrote -- a long time ago.

Who is Bruce?

Richard

Florian
11-03-2004, 04:54 PM
Sorry Richard I made a mistake. Im impressed youre also a songwriter.

Florian

dcorc
11-03-2004, 04:55 PM
Hi Richard

This is coming along beautifully, delicate and entrancing. (See, I'm falling for her, all over again :wink2: )

Dave

WV.Artistry
11-05-2004, 11:50 AM
This is about the extent of my fledgling drawing skills. I'll make some edits and enhancements the next phase as I destroy it with underpainting.

End of Part One : Sketch

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2004/50986-WIP_Sketch_UL.jpg

Carey Griffel
11-05-2004, 03:32 PM
Richard, I do believe that I like yours better than the original! You've done a superb job on the sketch. Love that detail shot you gave us.

I haven't replied to this thread before now because I just couldn't think of anything adequate to say for this thread with not only your painting, but also that poem...incredible!! I've given up finding appropriate words, so I'll just say huzzah!! :)

~!Carey

dcorc
11-05-2004, 10:32 PM
Don't know why you're so unsure of your drawing skills, Richard - it looks pretty good from here!

Dave

WV.Artistry
11-05-2004, 11:27 PM
Don't know why you're so unsure of your drawing skills, Richard - it looks pretty good from here!

Dave

Some people have the natural ability to draw . . . I'm not one of them. But just because I can't, doesn't mean I'll let it stop me :) If I have work 100 times harder to accomplish a sketch than people who can, then that's what I'll have to do.

Here's my target for the underpainting :

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2004/50986-ingres_odalisque_grisaille.jpg

Michael-Ann
11-06-2004, 02:40 PM
w/i/p sketch detail
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2004/50986-WIP_Sketch_Detail.jpg


A Sonnet by Richard

She's blind,
but knows it's just a way for her to
sleep with open eyes --
no colors for the sky,
out here . . . on this empty sea.
The wind fills her sails,
and carries her ever
heaven bound to me.

She only sees . . .
me,
-- when she
dreams.

Even though slightly blurry, looking into her eye...AMAZING! There is a world locked inside that gaze...

Michael-Ann
11-06-2004, 02:45 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2004/50986-WIP_Sketch_UL.jpg

Holy schmokes Richard! She could stand on her own right now and be an absolutely outstanding work! The folds in the fabric look positively live...Without a doubt, she is beautiful. I think she exudes the feeling you put into her...truly I do...she looks to have a memory of your "conversations" with her.

WV.Artistry
11-06-2004, 05:02 PM
Even though slightly blurry, looking into her eye...AMAZING! There is a world locked inside that gaze...

Michael-Ann :wave:

Sometimes when I paint, the paint looks back at me . . . this is a little unnerving, especially if it catches me off-guard. The one you liked (Saint Margaret) did that too. But this one in particular, has captured my reflection in her gaze. So I'll entertain myself with a thought, that I'm not creating this painting -- but she is in fact the one creating me.

<< coffee break >>

I'm in process of glazing the sketch in preparation for the underpainting.

Michael-Ann
11-06-2004, 07:23 PM
...But this one in particular, has captured my reflection in her gaze...

Do you know, I think I can see you... is that your guitar too? Cool :D

Squib
11-07-2004, 03:53 PM
Beautiful.

WV.Artistry
11-07-2004, 04:27 PM
She's not happy again . . . I said, "Must I listen to thy incessant complaining?" At which she fired her electromagnetic pulse (a tear) and rendered me helpless.

I destroyed the sketch with glazing.

In the broad sense, this preliminary step gives me a better idea of necessary brushstrokes in a work, but it's more functional. I don't protect my sketches, and by glazing, I'm removing excess dust, leaving only heavy sediments to be embedded in the canvas, beneath, or in, a thin layer of paint. It also tones the canvas . . . like muddy waters. It's lots of little things people do but all combined in one procedure.

Recipe For Disaster (kids, don't try this at home). This is where I make a note to myself -- Don't blow up the house! But that really should be edited to . . . ugh! Because sometimes the painting is rendered unsalvageable with these experiments.

Note to Bernie : The palette is irrelevant.

1. Dark Paint
2. Mix 1 + 3
3. Medium Paint
4. Mix 3 + 5
5. Light Paint

What is relevant, is they are all transparent.

Mix 1 cap stand oil + 1 cap clove or spike stuff, stir with knife (there is no spoon), and pour liberally over palette. Paint with glazes as recklessly as possible and rinse muddy brushes often with turpentine.

Note to Dave : Suspect identified for well-endowed turpentine swish jar.

I'll make edits and enhancements with the underpainting, and fix what I messed up with the glazing.

WV.Artistry
11-07-2004, 04:42 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Nov-2004/50986-First_Glaze_UL.jpg

Squib
11-07-2004, 04:50 PM
She is still beautiful Richard.

Florian
11-09-2004, 06:25 AM
Beautiful, Richard I like to follow your progress on this and thanks for the detailed comments.

Florian :wave:

WV.Artistry
11-09-2004, 11:53 AM
Florian :wave:

w/i/p underpainting notes :

Indigo + Raw Umber
Green Umber
Raw Umber
Indigo + Raw Sienna
Raw Umber + Flake White (Dark Grey)
Raw Umber + Radiant White (Light Grey)
Adobe Med
Adobe Light

Adobe is from Doak, his stated mix is Raw Umber + Flake White + Lead Pin Yellow. They're applied in the face highlights as Vermeer, Girl with Pearl Earring (Radiograph Attached).

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Nov-2004/50986-Radiograph_Pearl_Earring.jpg

WV.Artistry
11-09-2004, 11:58 AM
w/i/p underpainting

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Nov-2004/50986-WIP_Underpainting_1.jpg

paintthepast
11-09-2004, 12:08 PM
Richard,

This is coming along very nicely. Excellent job!

-cb

Michael-Ann
11-09-2004, 12:32 PM
Fantastic progress Richard! Your most recent post took my breath away...

A Few Pigments
11-09-2004, 12:49 PM
Richard your paintings always look like stained glass windows. They exceed the best of the methods of the old masters. Beautiful work.

WV.Artistry
11-09-2004, 12:49 PM
Charles, Michael-Ann :wave:

It will take me a few days to get through the underpainting and edits... then the entire painting will be glazed with red ochre. This diffuses the green and grey while deepening the shadows. I'll drybrush it out of the shadows and off the highlights creating a 3D effect in the midtones. I'll do the same with dark ochre in areas that are not direct light.

Then I can start painting :)

Thanks for looking.

Squib
11-09-2004, 05:07 PM
Fascinating.

WV.Artistry
11-10-2004, 04:28 PM
w/i/p underpainting

adding 3 browns to the palette to phase out the blue and green cast as I work up the sleeve.

Indigo + Raw Umber
Green Umber
Raw Umber
Asphaltum
Indigo + Raw Sienna
Burnt Umber + Flake White (Medium Brown)
Raw Umber + Flake White (Dark Grey)
Burnt Umber + Naples Yellow (Light Brown)
Raw Umber + Radiant White (Light Grey)
Adobe Med
Adobe Light

WV.Artistry
11-10-2004, 04:29 PM
w/i/p underpainting

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Nov-2004/50986-WIP_Underpainting_2.jpg

Rosic
11-10-2004, 04:35 PM
Looking great Richard!
You're still the King of Fabric!
I bow to you! :wink2:
Bern

WV.Artistry
11-10-2004, 05:24 PM
Bernie,

Thanks for looking :)

Did you ever find the book, Byzantium?

I learned cloth from a Russian (Greek-Orthodox) annunciation, but I've never been able to find that angel again. It's my fail-safe when I run into cloth problems.

"Byzantium (the book) details how the cultural inheritors of Rome, Islam, Christianity, the Orthodox church, and a scared monarchy struggled to coexist in Constantinople by documenting the evolution and character of Byzantium's art, society, and politics, and revealing the critical role Constantinople played in linking the world of antiquity with that of the divided Middle Ages."

This might be the book . . . not sure.

http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?cid=54554&PAGE=PRODUCT&PROD_ID=193677&fp=F&siteID=.qhpzi.AvPY-bpj9X5seHwhGOeN3sXnBFw

This painting is an interesting fusion of meticulous and laissez-faire brush strokes -- sometimes I just feel lost.

Richard

Rosic
11-11-2004, 04:03 PM
Thanks for the link Richard... an interesting subject.
Bernie

Carey Griffel
11-12-2004, 12:38 PM
Richard,

Wow.

:)

~!Carey

WV.Artistry
11-14-2004, 04:47 AM
Here's a read about Raphael, in timelines.

http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/bio/r/raphael/biograph.html

I'm no expert or historian, but I've suspected, Raphael had his real breakthroughs after observing firsthand, the techniques of Leonardo da Vinci, specifically with regards to solvent use, adverse chemical reactions, process, application, and brush. In the past, I've been hard on Raphael, and ripped his early work as crap, but my thinking was flawed, defensive that not enough credit was given to Leonardo da Vinci for this . . . now as I come into the rough of this underpainting, I realize, a student is supposed to eclipse the master. It's the way of things.

I'm not saying any of this for debate, so consider it spewing of random thoughts I haven't filtered yet into an organized comprehension of where I want to be with "art". Bouguereau pointed his students to Raphael, and I see why -- a lot of Raphael is in Bouguereau's work (there's direct lifting of color schemes if you want examples). And I guess that's what unsettles me in the pursuit of understanding painting : the ego. It seems a simple thing, as Bouguereau and Ingres did, to point to the source, to share, and uplift, but instead, many attempt to pull the wings off fledglings to maintain what they consider their place in the scheme of all things. It's confusing, and not what matters to me. But in the real world . . . maybe I'm only kidding myself that it's anything other than a predatory universe, the savage garden.

I want to eclipse my own ability. But even do so, I'll still just be a guy that likes to paint -- nothing more, or less, than exactly that.

:)

Here's something I've learned : I paint better when I laugh.

WV.Artistry
11-14-2004, 01:25 PM
w/i/p underpainting . . .

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Nov-2004/50986-WIP_Underpainting_3.jpg

gorie
11-14-2004, 10:41 PM
wow ! this is looking sooo good :)

WV.Artistry
11-15-2004, 09:14 AM
:)

Carey 1 & 2 in the same thread :) Thanks for looking.

I think this painting is going to force me to make some custom brushes. I'm too clumbsy to paint at this great a detail. I usually start out with a #4 filbert, move to a #2 filbert or bright, then a #1, but . . . there's micro-level stuff going on here.

After I get past the underpainting, I'm taking a razor to a few brushes, and buying some feathers.

Carey Griffel
11-15-2004, 01:12 PM
Carey 1 & 2 in the same thread :)

Is that the same as Thing 1 & 2 ? ;) :D

Richard, still going strong, I see. I enjoy reading your thoughts and watching your progress. Feather brushes?? Wow. Sounds fantastic!

~!Carey

WV.Artistry
11-15-2004, 03:15 PM
Off-Topic : A special thanks.

The sharing here is something that keeps me logging on, and I think of some of you, as the closest thing I have to a friend :) I readily confess to being as dense as a board, an unintentional recluse, and a slob . . . but what that has to do with anything is simply that I am struggling with my art, and appreciate the sounding board. I like art, and I'd probably lurk here anyway, over your shoulders in admiration. I learn as much from your works, your successes and failures, as I do in my progressions. So thanks for helping me get to this place. And let's take it to the next level, ey?

Third Thursday Event : November 18th, 2004
"Best In Orlando" (an art exhibition)
Location : Oval on Orange, Orlando FL USA
Best in Show : Homage to Rejlander
Artist : Richard W. Cohen
Medium : Conte/Charcoal on Canvas

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2004/50986-Sketch_B.jpg

dcorc
11-15-2004, 03:46 PM
...Best in Show : Homage to Rejlander
Artist : Richard W. Cohen
Medium : Conte/Charcoal on Canvas

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2004/50986-Sketch_B.jpg

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Well done - Congratulations!

Dave

Squib
11-15-2004, 04:07 PM
Oh Richard - its beautiful. Very well done :clap: :clap: :clap:

Yokovich
11-15-2004, 05:08 PM
Richard/Enoch--what a beautiful drawing--did you win an award with it?--wow!!
what a touching narrative you provided too--I often feel the same way..that we are among "friends" here--real friends! None of my "real life" friends get me...lol--you guys do a much better job of it! lol--congratulations on taking the prize--(right?) well deserved!~ :clap: :clap:

DLGardner
11-15-2004, 05:56 PM
Richard, this is a very passionate painting. It tells a story and yet leaves us wondering. Excellent in its rendering. I am not surprised that you won best of show.

Congratulations
Dianne

Stoy Jones
11-15-2004, 08:10 PM
Off-Topic : A special thanks.

The sharing here is something that keeps me logging on, and I think of some of you, as the closest thing I have to a friend :) I readily confess to being as dense as a board, an unintentional recluse, and a slob . . . but what that has to do with anything is simply that I am struggling with my art, and appreciate the sounding board. I like art, and I'd probably lurk here anyway, over your shoulders in admiration. I learn as much from your works, your successes and failures, as I do in my progressions. So thanks for helping me get to this place. And let's take it to the next level, ey?

Third Thursday Event : November 18th, 2004
"Best In Orlando" (an art exhibition)
Location : Oval on Orange, Orlando FL USA
Best in Show : Homage to Rejlander
Artist : Richard W. Cohen
Medium : Conte/Charcoal on Canvas

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2004/50986-Sketch_B.jpg

Richard, you are also a part of what goes on here just by sharing such fine work, so thankyou as well. Excellent piece! It would be great to see this x-posted at the Drawing forum as well, interesting approach and incredible results!

Stoy

WV.Artistry
11-17-2004, 12:03 PM
I'm coming to a stopping place with the underpainting . . . yes, I know, I botched a few things all to hell. And at the moment, I'm sorely tempted to scrape off her face with a putty knife. Ugh!

I won't add much white here since I'm about to destroy the underpainting with glazing. I like saying this . . . it's not my holy grail :) Of course, sometimes I just destroy the painting with experiments, but I'll try to be careful and read the note first : Don't blow up the house! The neckless will be the very last thing I paint, so I sloshed through it just enough.

Need to go buy a few things.

WV.Artistry
11-17-2004, 12:09 PM
w/i/p underpainting

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Nov-2004/50986-WIP_Underpainting_4.jpg

paintthepast
11-17-2004, 12:35 PM
Good job....Congratulations!!

-cb

WV.Artistry
11-19-2004, 08:17 AM
Good job....Congratulations!!

-cb

Hey, they bought me a cup of coffee, what more could I ask for?

Thanks for sharing my 15 minutes of fame with me :)

The only downside were strangers not wanting to talk to me but taking pictures of my work -- a most interesting observation that affected me with dreams. It's very unsettling.

I had an opportunity to discuss nose bridges and eyebrows with a few people. One of them who had seen Raphael's paintings, told me something I suspected . . . what's not immediately evident in a photograph, is the wavering of a line as Raphael edited edges back and forth. He explained it better than I did -- sorry about the lack of verbatim. The effect is that indeterminable seque, and our brains make the necessary math adjustments of anatomy (an illusion).

If you're reading -- thanks Christopher.

I'm not roasting Raphael, but this piece is in company with a Waterhouse in anatomy issues. It's the same question, "Raphael, what is this monstrosity? And why is she so beautiful?"

I'll try to have this glazing layer done by the weekend.

Rosic
11-19-2004, 08:44 AM
Richard... been a few days so I decided to pop over and see how things are going... great I assume after seeing the finished under-painting. Can't wait to see those colors evolve.
Bern

RhiannonJ
11-19-2004, 09:25 AM
Hey, they bought me a cup of coffee, what more could I ask for?

Thanks for sharing my 15 minutes of fame with me :)

I'm not roasting Raphael, but this piece is in company with a Waterhouse in anatomy issues. It's the same question, "Raphael, what is this monstrosity? And why is she so beautiful?"

I'll try to have this glazing layer done by the weekend.

Lookin' good, Richard! Can't wait to see it after glazing this weekend. Here's a cup of java for ya to keep ya going. :D

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Nov-2004/32418-coffeecup2.gif

Rhi

RhiannonJ
11-19-2004, 09:28 AM
Third Thursday Event : November 18th, 2004
"Best In Orlando" (an art exhibition)
Location : Oval on Orange, Orlando FL USA
Best in Show : Homage to Rejlander
Artist : Richard W. Cohen
Medium : Conte/Charcoal on Canvas

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2004/50986-Sketch_B.jpg

Way ta go, Richard! Congrats!!http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Nov-2004/32418-applaudit.gif

Rhi

WV.Artistry
11-19-2004, 10:06 AM
Way ta go, Richard! Congrats!!
Rhi

Thanks . . . doing some research today, and need to drive across town to buy some cheap hog brushes to cut up and customize, goat hairs for glazing, etc. There's a chemistry thing I want to do after the glazing and need to learn how to do it without destroying the painting.

If someone wants to start a group thread on Odd Nerdrum, I'll join in after I finish this piece.

WV.Artistry
11-20-2004, 12:26 PM
glazed and diffused . . .

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Nov-2004/50986-WIP_Glaze_2.jpg

Rosic
11-20-2004, 03:46 PM
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Looks like a qualifying portrait to me! :wink2:

Florian
11-20-2004, 05:08 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2004/50986-Sketch_B.jpg

Congratulations Richard well done, outstanding work.!!!!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:


Excellent progress on your Donna Velata to.

Florian

WV.Artistry
11-21-2004, 03:47 AM
Excellent progress on your Donna Velata to.

Florian

Florian,

Welcome back.

Here is a detail from the original.

You might find this an interesting example of a turpentine trick.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Nov-2004/50986-Detail_1.jpg

I think this area behind her neck is the thinnest paint of the canvas. And it's only enough paint to cover the very beginning of the composition. I don't know how he toned his canvas -- but I can see through to that foundation.

That reddish glow is "behind" greys and darks.

We think, to paint dark first, and then build up the light . . . but this opposite method produces a backglow. The stained-glass window.

One method to "see through" is scraping off paint. I can use a stiff brush and turpentine to do this.

My painting -- this thin area now has :
* red sketch foundation (burnt sienna turp, red ochre pigment, etc.)
* glaze over sketch
* grey paint scraped off with turpentine and brush
* another glaze

At the end, I will add a little more paint to edit, but that's it, for my thinnest area of the canvas.

I'm guessing at the approach he used. And a problem with overusing this technique is painting too thin.

Thanks for looking,

Richard

WV.Artistry
11-21-2004, 05:51 AM
The photograph of the glazed and diffused stage was taken in the mid-day sun. It was the only way I could shoot it because she was all wet and goopy with a high refraction. FYI -- the painting is really much much darker.

At this point, I'm 1/2 way to finished. This has all been preparation, and foundation -- now, is where I feel the actual painting begins.

I'll be extending the value mixes from a range of 2 to 4 because I will be attempting to "not" blend. Basically, this next part is getting ochres over the existing umbers, and then layering my siennas over that. That order gives me a higher translucency . . . and a more predictable drying order. My objective is to submit this for exhibition with the last brush stroke.

I'll post a view before going into the finish.

Happy Thanksgiving

Florian
11-21-2004, 05:14 PM
Thanks Richard for sharing this technique, its very interesting. It sounds rather difficult to me, Id be afraid of ruining the painting by scraping of the paint as you mentioned. How long is the drying time before its possible to scrap of paint do you wipe of the turpentine and the remains with a rug after this procedure?

Florian

WV.Artistry
11-21-2004, 11:13 PM
Thanks Richard for sharing this technique, its very interesting. It sounds rather difficult to me, Id be afraid of ruining the painting by scraping of the paint as you mentioned. How long is the drying time before its possible to scrap of paint do you wipe of the turpentine and the remains with a rug after this procedure?

Florian

Watching you paint cloth is like studying Michel Angel de Bonarrotta. It was very helpful to me :) Thanks.

It is only a little bit of turpentine on the brush. Damp, not wet, excess turpentine is taken off the brush. And yes, too much, it destroys . . . I have destroyed a few paintings.

The technique is good for making stone. It creates anomalies and textures (Deutsches Worts: Anomalien und Texturs). The brush motion with turpentine creates direction and depth of the stone . . . then edit with more paint, taking advantage of the accidents. This technique creates hues (Farbtne?) -- light is color, there are so many reflections from stone that we don't think about as painters. Because it's stone, our brain won't allow us to "see through" it like we see through cloth, even though it's the same technique using backglow. Also, stone has many flaws. The chemical reaction with the brushwork creates flaws. In theory : I am painting imperfection.

Some rocks I made using this technique.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Nov-2004/50986-Example_3.jpg

WV.Artistry
11-23-2004, 07:47 AM
Experiment : Venetian Turpentine

I had four substances in my experimental glaze, including Venetian Turpentine, and two on the side if you count turpentine swish jars (I have different types).

Yes, experimented . . . but I didn't destroy her (well, not entirely, only a few parts), so all is well.

Agree entirely with the word "lustre", but it still keeps the gloss "manageable". I hate gloss. It smells absolutely terrible, and is somewhere between the thickness of stand oil and neo-megalip. But it does have an interesting effect.

Surfing, I found this link. I read something useful in it to correct my error and discontinue destroying the painting.

http://www.sanders-studios.com/instruction/tutorials/modernapplications/medium.html
In the Oleoresin category, several manufacturers offer the balsam, Venetian (or Venice) Turpentine, including Shiva, Rembrandt, and Sennelier. It is not recommended that this balsam be thinned by more than 20%, nor that it constitute more than 5% of the paint film according to Smith. But Smith has an aversion to the use of any resin or oleoresin in mediums. Other sources tell me that no such restrictions apply, though more than 20% is usually not necessary in a medium when mixed with oil, and extremely high percentages of oleoresin would make the paint film dangerously resoluble when cleaning. The judicious use of Venetian Turpentine will add lustre and gloss to glazes.

A popular glaze medium using Venetian turpentine consists of
9 parts damar varnish (5 lb. cut)
9 parts turpentine
4 parts stand oil
2 parts Venice turpentine
For multiple layering add a little more stand oil to each layer.
This recipe will add gloss more safely than the use of a boiled oil hard resin medium.

WV.Artistry
11-24-2004, 12:51 PM
w/i/p

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Nov-2004/50986-WIP_Finish_1.jpg

Squib
11-25-2004, 03:16 AM
Richard, she is beautiful.

Biki
11-25-2004, 03:29 AM
Richard, i am falling over myself with your "Best in Show"
Congratulations & well deserved.
Absolutely bleedin' bloody marvellous.!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

you are also doing well with your bella donna - but hey!! you & Dave - you pick this absolute beauty - and quite frankly, she just ain't so lovely yet.
.... but you are getting closer. :p

WV.Artistry
11-25-2004, 08:15 AM
quite frankly, she just ain't so lovely yet. :p

Ah, nothing like a vote of confidence.

<<big smile>>

Thanks to Loop, I found a WC member who has similar features to this portrait, and she'll send me a reference photo after the holiday to help me with everything I can't see in the original.. Raphael had strengths, but his anatomy had skews, and everything is washed out. Between his problems and my problems, this has been really challenging to render a presentable rendition.

Regardless of success or failure of the rendition. I've gained an understanding : why I've given Raphael such a roasting whenever I see his works . . and it's something I can't post without being offensive. So I'll say this. I no longer dislike him and that's a good thing. It was probably not his fault.

WV.Artistry
11-28-2004, 09:01 AM
w/i/p

My new handle.

I'm having problems taking a decent photograph.

Added to the palette : Burnt Sienna, Mars Orange, Red Ochre, and Transparent Sepia.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Nov-2004/53202-WIP_Finish_2.jpg

Michael-Ann
11-28-2004, 01:08 PM
She is looking exquisite...softness in the facial skin is really starting to show...the fabric is divine. She seems to be getting blood flow now ;)

WV.Artistry
11-28-2004, 03:54 PM
She is looking exquisite...softness in the facial skin is really starting to show...the fabric is divine. She seems to be getting blood flow now ;)

Michael-Ann :wave:

You can move up procrastination on my list of character flaws towards the top. But I have found three songs worth sending . . I'll make the tape tomorrow and mail it (holding my boyscout up). Side A : Unvarnished. Side B : Unfinished Sketches.

I hope your schedule will find time for your art.

Rosic
11-28-2004, 04:09 PM
She is looking exquisite......the fabric is divine.
AMEN! :clap:

Florian
11-28-2004, 04:18 PM
Richard, what can I say? She is absolute wonderful. :clap:

Florian

dcorc
11-28-2004, 08:05 PM
And I'm with everybody else here, Richard, she's looking magnificent! Keep up the good work!

Dave

Carey Griffel
11-29-2004, 12:20 AM
Richard, this is such fun, watching this painting progress. You are doing an absolutely stunning job, a great demo on "painting in layers", I think.

:)

~!Carey

WV.Artistry
12-01-2004, 05:17 PM
Richard, this is such fun, watching this painting progress. You are doing an absolutely stunning job, a great demo on "painting in layers", I think.

:)

~!Carey

Thanks for looking Carey. Dave, Florian . . :wave:

I dropped and cracked my coffee mug, so I took a couple of days off to be depressed. It was a Vincent Van Gogh self-portrait that had a disappearing ear. It's now retired beside my chipped Wizard mug.

Fare thee well Vincent.

Here's a reasonably good definition of what I'm about to attempt.

Scumbling.

"A scumble is related to a glaze in that it is a film of color laid over another paint surface so that it modifies the original color but does not completely conceal it. Unlike a glaze, the scumble is usually a light, semi-opaque color placed over a darker one. Some colors (Naples yellow, for example) are particularly suitable for this technique, but any color may be combined with opaque white and used as a scumble when it is placed over a darker tone. Scumbles are usually characterized by a pearly opalescence or by a soft smoky optical effect."

I really don't like using misused words like scumble, database, and glazed donuts, but I'm pretty sure this is the correct art verbiage for the technique.

Basically, the effect will significantly lighten the appropriate flesh areas, treating direct light like a waterfall, but still giving me control over gradient light. Since I've darkened the background adequetly to set-off the figure, this last turning up of the light switch should give the painting a noticeable glow.

I'll use it sparingly in the cloth . . . just enough to catch the light.

After a few accents, corrections, touch-ups, and giving up on making more problems for myself -- I'll go over the entire painting (as necessary) with copal refinishing to balance the end-result.

Friday, take it to the Italian girl with beautiful hands and good taste, to frame, and submit it to be juried on Saturday. Wish me luck :)

I've learned at least one thing in painting, and besides introducing me to good humor, green umber, and aslphaltum, I will always be grateful to this person for a miscellaneous note :

"I have no idea where to start up, so I do what I always do. I begin with a task that could inflict the least possible damage."
-- William Whitaker

WV.Artistry
12-04-2004, 02:37 PM
Added to the palette : Transparent Earth Yellow

Something I ommited while in process, an experiment with the background. To be honest, I didn't know if it would work or not.

1) glazed charcoal sketch
2) dry-brushed, cleaning paint from palette with fan brushes only
3) dry-brushed, cleaning the turp from fan brushes only
4) glazed entire painting
5) applied transparent film of paint with fan brush to darken background

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Dec-2004/53202-V1_Example.jpg

Not entirely displeased with the effect. I think it could be used with other Kitch painters.

Waiting to borrow a camera, and I'll post the final.

Closing note. I think a person could work a very long time on this painting and still not get it right. My own evaluation of my work is, I've painted a good rendition, a poor copy. It's a reasonably good painting, but not a great painting. I did learn some things along the way, and I've accomplished my objective -- to eclipse my own ability.

Personally, I'd like to see Dave (or moderator) start a group thread on Raphael and re-post his study with notes, then let me do the same, so the next person attempting this study will have a more solid view of things that work and don't work. Then we can empty the contents of these two threads . . . leaving only a link.

In the group thread, I'd continue with Saint Catherine . . . another elementary study (like this of Margherita Luti) that will help me better understand the cloth work of Bouguereau.

WV.Artistry
12-04-2004, 03:45 PM
sorry about the photo quality.

finis'

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Dec-2004/53202-La_Donna_Velata.jpg

WV.Artistry
12-04-2004, 04:19 PM
Details

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Dec-2004/53202-Detail_1.jpg


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Dec-2004/53202-Detail_2.jpg


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Dec-2004/53202-Detail_3.jpg

Biki
12-04-2004, 04:35 PM
ahhhhh Richard, you did it. You made her beautiful.

this thread needs five stars, - for it's humour, valuable information, but mostly for it's brilliant finish.!

congratulations. again & as usual. :D :wave:

Florian
12-05-2004, 04:34 PM
Richard, it has been a pleasure watching your progress and reading your informative and detailed comments. I agree with Biki this is a 5 star thread.
Congratulations. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Florian

Squib
12-06-2004, 04:00 PM
What a finale ! Magnificent. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Carey Griffel
12-06-2004, 04:38 PM
Richard, the final turned out just as I had suspected, fabulous! She ought not to be complaining too much at this stage. ;)

Really appreciate how much you've shared here!!

~!Carey

WV.Artistry
12-06-2004, 09:58 PM
Biki, Florian, Lorraine, Carey, Bernie, Dave, Michael-Ann . . kind words, thanks for sharing a moment with me.

And now, I return her to the arms of Raphael. May they sleep again, at peace.

Au revoir ma fleur. Vous n'tes pas le fantme que je cherche.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Dec-2004/53202-Margherita_Luti_001.jpg

RhiannonJ
12-07-2004, 10:56 AM
Congrats Richard on a beautiful piece!! :clap: :clap: Thanks for sharing this WIP with us! Hope I do as well with Ophelia. :p

Rhi

WV.Artistry
12-09-2004, 02:20 PM
Rhiannon, you either underestimate your talent or overestimate mine . . but thanks for the kind words.

Just got the call. She made it past the jurors.

Exhibiting both La Donna Velata and Narcissus next week in seperate exhibits. It's a good way to close a year.

Cheers!

WV.Artistry
02-09-2005, 02:02 AM
At the exhibit, my rendition hung in the "Honorable Mention" slot.

Visipix now has the original painting by Raphael. I don't think they had it at the beginning of this study. Their version is the lighter one that shows the bracelet, henpecks, jewelrey detail, and kitch background -- I worked from a printout of artrenewal's version which is the dark one.