What's your favorite oil primer

[artinwc]

Hi Folks,

I have recently discovered the experience of painting on an oil ground and find it much more user friendly. I'm just wondering what your opinions are on the different brands of oil primers (both lead based and non-lead based). I have tried two at this time, although one was actually an alkyd primer (Gamblin). The other, which I'm much more pleased with is a lead-based oil primer made by Utretch. The directions on the can are a bit strange though. It says the BEST results are obtained by letting the primer dry 10-14 days. And if you haven't started painting on it by the end of the third week after application, then you should wait 4-6 months. I like the matte finish much better than Gamblin's glossier finish. Others I'm curious about are Studio Products lead-based oil ground and Williamsburg's lead-based oil ground.

If you have any experience using an oil ground, I would sure be interested in what you think about the brands/types you've used and whether you think it makes a difference to you. And if you've not painted on an oil ground, I would encourage you to give it a try.

Thanks for listening, and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Judith

[Puck]

I was wondering if anyone has tried either the roll canvas from Artfix or the stretched canvases from Yarka; both have lead oil primed canvas. The Artfix is pricy, but sounds quite well made, and I was simply wondering about the quality of the Yarka.
____________________
The day is short, the task is abundant, the laborers are lazy, the wage is great, and the Master of the House is insistent. – Tarfon

[Jiggs]

I have used Gamblin Oil Primer & Utrecht Oil Pimer. I prefer the later for the same reasons you do. Interesting, I am doing a landscape right now that I primed Utrecht Oil Primer. I took a Fredrix Archival Canvas Panel and put a textured surface on it. I like the feel of painting on the texted surface.

I have painted on the Artfix Oil Primed Linen (L21C) and it is really nice. The primer is actually described as lead-like oil pimer and non-toxic; therefore, I don't think it contains lead. I would guess it is titanium/zinc combo in linseed oil. Similar to the Utrecht Oil Primer. Soho Art Supply sells Artfix linens by the yard. Also, I understand that the Masterpiece Vincent Oil Primed Linen is Artfix L21C. I would suggest purchasing a canvas and giving it a try. If you like it you can buy a yard or two and stretch yourself for much less. I was planing on purchasing some myself.

I have never painted with real lead primed linen, but I think you can purchase Lead Primed Linen from David Davis Art Supply or Soho Art Supply.

PS I really prefer the oil primed surface over acrylic gesso. My paint seems to dry out less and it is so much easier to brush on. Also, it doesn't stain so you can wipe down the canvas.

Regards,
Bevan

[jo_b]

Hello Judith and Puck :wave:

Judith as you know, I have used both oil and Gamblin's alkyd, and I too prefer oil primer. I use a 50/50 mix of WN and Maimeri oil primers they are both lead based. The maimeri is the superior product but. it is very stringy and hard to use alone, so I mix it with WN's and the consistency comes out perfectly.

Puck, Artfix conservation grade belgian linen rolls are what I usually buy. Yes it is pricey, but it is worth every penny to me. Especially when I am doing portraits or figural paintings. I use the extra fine weave for those so I can get an extremely smooth surface for the details and the flesh. Yarka, is not what I would call a good linen. Even their extra fine has a very uneven weave. and the priming that they do maybe hand done, every canvas that I had purchased, (6 of various sized prestretched and oil primed) were covered with brush hairs imbedded in the primer. I personally would never buy that brand again.

Jodi

[artinwc]

Hi Jodi,

I'm glad you provided your thoughts on this. I was about to order some WN Oil Primer, but could not find anywhere on the web that said it has lead in it (a desirable attribute to me). And I didn't even realize Maimeri made an oil primer. Neither are that expensive, so I may give them a try. It doesn't sound like you have to dilute them either. Do their instructions (or your experience) indicate a certain time period that, once the canvases are primed, they should be used within for best results? BTW, I read in another thread you'd written that you'd just ordered the W'burg Italian Earth Colors. That's on my "wish list". Happy painting!

Judith

[Puck]

After making the decision to get serious about my art (i.e., doing it full time) I had to make some decisions about the materials for the sake of permanency. Certain colors had to go; no cotton canvasses, etc. I’ve recently read about the questionable state of acrylic primers, whether or not they’ll last. The lead-oil primed paintings on linen have lasted centuries, so I’d rather be safe than sorry...
I figured the Artfix would be good; from their description of the amount of layers and the time they put into it, it would be worth the price. My problem is I would rather spend my time painting than stretching and sizing and sanding. I hear Williamsburg makes a good lead-oil primer, but it’s $40+ a pint.
Since I don’t do a lot of fine-detailed work (impressionist technique a la Pissarro) smoothness of the canvas doesn’t concern me as much, in fact, I’d rather have more of a rough weave since I do a lot of scumbling. Even a brush hair here and there doesn’t faze me too much, which is why I was wondering about the Yarka. As long as it’s primed correctly and stretched correctly, I can overlook some of the other stuff. I don’t want a vodka-based primed skewered canvas, if you know what I mean...
__________________________

The day is short, the task is abundant, the laborers are lazy, the wage is great, and the Master of the House is insistent–Tarfon.

[jo_b]

Hi Puck- I I understand what you are saying, since you paint in an impressionistic style, I assume that you paint alla prima, and probably lay on your paint quite a bit thicker then I. I paint in a classical realist style so the texture, or lack of it, is important to me. You should probably just purchase a few different brands and weaves of linen canvases so you can better judge for yourself. One other think I noticed about Yarka was that the canvas was stretched unevenly on the bars. The weave and weft's were not exactly horiziontal and vertical. Some areas were stretched tighter then others causing waves in the weave and ripples at the corners. My opinion is, you get what you pay for. I will stick with artfix.

Jodi

[river rat]

You asked about the SP lead primer and Williamsburg earlier. Haven't used Williamsburg so I can't say for sure but most of their products are really nice so I would expect the lead ground is too. Their native Italian pigments are interesting pigments, similiar to the normal variety but with just a little extra to them. As for the SP primer, I have used it and it is wonderful. Its lead white ground in black oil for a little added flexibility and strength. You can actually run a piece of primed canvas over a table edge and it won't crack. (I'm not sure why you would want to do that but you can.) It pretty easy to use. Plop some down in the middle of your stretched canvas, spread it out with a knife or spatula, and then take a foam brush or something similiar, dip in turps and smooth it out as much as you want.

One thing with oil grounds is you have to think ahead. You really need to let them dry as long as possible. They get better with age. The directions that you mentioned with the Utrecht are directly related to drying as you probably know. If you use it right away the paint layer will bond into the ground making one cohesive layer. Somewhere in that two week period they mention they figure the ground has dried enoungh that the paint will no longer join with it. At that point you really need to let it dry completely to avoid the possibility of cracking.

Puck mentioned the $40+ price. Unfortunately that's about average for a good lead ground. SP, Williamsburg, Doak, all in the same range. The good news is it doesn't take that much so a quart goes a long way. If you want to stretch it even farther, after a glue size, prime with a layer of acrylic gesso, then put on a thin layer of lead primer. Personally I would rather use only lead, but I thought I'd just throw that out in case somebody wanted to try it. As for the time issue, it doesn't take all that long. I usually take a few days in Sept. for stretching and priming canvas and panels. In a week or so at most I have enough surfaces to keep me going for another year. But then again I like that part of painting. I like the little break it gives me from pushing paint around all day.

As for pre primed rolls Artfix is about the best around. Its pricey but if you don't want to do it yourself its the way to go. I haven't used Yarka, but I haven't heard much good about it either. I'm using more and more polyester myself. Good linen is about to price itself out of my studio.

[artinwc]

Hi River Rat,

Thanks for you information. Just a couple questions on the SP primer. Is 6 months the actual amount of curing time? Will the opened container keep until you need to use it again? Right now I don't have the space to store as many canvases as a whole container of primer would use up, especially not for more than a few days. But I could probably do a few every few weeks. I was going to give W'burg a call tomorrow and ask a little more about theirs as well...mainly about drying time, although they're probably all going to be about the same. If I have to wait 6 months, then I guess I could order a few of the Artfix stretched canvases if I can find anyone who has them in stock.

Judith

[Puck]

Well, that’s what I was afraid of with the Yarka: vodka-primed canvas. *hic!* Oh, well!
Yes, my style is impressionistic, occasionally post-impressionistic, but I rarely do alla-primas, except for small studies. I layer quite a bit, and like to paint wet-on-dry. Here’s a small (well, for me) study, a 16x20 when I was doing some divisionism, and you can see that this sort of thing would be hard to do alla prima:

[Puck]

Judith: try http://www.aswexpress.com/discount-art-supplies/online/2754/art-supplies/4
RiverRat: I have been using Williamsburg paint for the past couple of years; great stuff. I guess I'm just gonna have to either go with artfix or bite the lead bullet and start doing my own stretchin' and primin'.
Oops, saw that it's just the roll canvas on asw. Bummer.

[WFMartin]

Well, that’s what I was afraid of with the Yarka: vodka-primed canvas. *hic!* Oh, well!
Yes, my style is impressionistic, occasionally post-impressionistic, but I rarely do alla-primas, except for small studies. I layer quite a bit, and like to paint wet-on-dry. Here’s a small (well, for me) study, a 16x20 when I was doing some divisionism, and you can see that this sort of thing would be hard to do alla prima:

Puck,

I am one of those naive' artists who still apply oil paint to store-bought, acryilic primed canvases. I always sand, and apply several more coats of acrylic primer, before painting, however. 20+ years of it, and still going. However, there are times I believe painting upon an oil primed canvas might be advantageous.

I am missing the point on your reference to "vodka-primed" canvas", however. Is this some joking reference to the company having a Russian-sounding name? As I said, I am quite naive', and often don't "get" the one-liners, when everyone else seems to. :confused:

My main concern for those who prime with oil paint, lies in the sizing of the canvas, itself. Many use hide or rabbitskin glue, and in my feeling that material is likely to remain water soluble forever. I have just never been confident in applying any material to canvas which will remain water soluble for that long a time.

My other question is: 6 months??? I've got to wait 6 months for an oil primer to dry, before painting on it? I'm afraid I don't own a warehouse in which to store all those "drying canvases", and to be honest, I don't or can't plan my future painting sizes that far in advance to be able to do that. I seldom know 6 weeks in advance, what size canvas I'm going to need available to use for my next painting, much less 6 months! How do you folks engineer that, logistically?

I have never quite understood the sizing-priming process. When one buys pre-oil-primed canvas, are they ready made (on stretchers) or simply rolls of canvas? If ready-made, how can one be assured that they have gone through the "curing" process for the pre-determined 6 months, as is deemed appropriate?

If oil-primed canvas/linen is supplied in rolls, how does one go about stretching it, without cracking it, soiling it, aligning the weave with the stretcher bar, when the weave is hidden by the primer?

When one sizes, and primes their own canvas/linen, does one first size, stretch, then prime? Or, does one first stretch, then size, then prime? Or, does one first size, then prime, then stretch?

Good questions, huh? :D :D But you must remember, I've been painting for over 20 years on Fredrix canvases. I have stretched a few of my own, but it's such a pain in the behind, that I'd almost rather give up a few of its perks, for the ability to begin painting in a day or so. And, I certainly have no desire to wait 6 months for a primer to dry! I don't understand that concept. I certainly don't wait 6 months for a grisaille underpainting to dry before painting layers upon it. My simple logic is failing me, somewhere, I guess. :wink2:

Help bring me around, people. Convince me, and perhaps I will change the course of my priming methods, once I make some sense of oil priming and its advantages. I'd honestly like to know.

Bill

[river rat]

Is 6 months the actual amount of curing time? Will the opened container keep until you need to use it again?

Heres a quote directly from the SP folks that make it:
You can squeak by after three weeks although the longer you wait the better. At four months they begin to take on the mature quality of good canvas. That's when the brush feels realy good. The longer you keep them, the better they get. That's the nature of oil primer.

The surface isn't a real bright white, more of a soft antique white that brightens with time to an extent. The open container will keep pretty well. Its just like any other paint, you want to keep the air away from it as much as possible.

Since I haven't used it I can't say for sure, but I would expect the Williamsburg to be similiar. The black oil in the SP will make the ground a bit tougher and more flexible due to the increased lead content and it should speed up the drying time some. I doubt you could go wrong with either. Both are very good companies.

[Jiggs]

Judith...I believe the W&N Oil Primer is composed of Titanium Dioxide and Alkyd resin. It should behave similar to the Gamblin Oil Ground.

Regards,
Bevan

[Puck]

I am missing the point on your reference to "vodka-primed" canvas", however. Is this some joking reference to the company having a Russian-sounding name?
Yarka canvases are made in Russia. It's more of a joke about their sloppy workmanship.

My other question is: 6 months??? I've got to wait 6 months for an oil primer to dry, before painting on it? I'm afraid I don't own a warehouse in which to store all those "drying canvases", and to be honest, I don't or can't plan my future painting sizes that far in advance to be able to do that. I seldom know 6 weeks in advance, what size canvas I'm going to need available to use for my next painting, much less 6 months! How do you folks engineer that, logistically?

My sentiments exactly. I’ll pay more for the Artfix, just to avoid the hassle. I’d rather spend my time painting. Still... $45 for a 40" x 42.5" canvas...and that's without the stretchers! Yeah, yeah, I know: buy it by the roll. Let's see...$270 for a 85" x 5.5' roll of primed canvas...that's a little over 115 sq. feet...that's $2.70 per sq. foot... For a 40" x 42.5" piece...that's $31.18. hmmm...

[artinwc]

Hi Folks,

Thanks again for responding. I did speak with a knowledgeable person at Williamsburg paint this morning who told me a little about using their lead primer. It should be diluted (with OMS, turp, etc) until it is the consistency of half-and-half cream and applied thinly in two coats. The second coat can be applied the day after the first coat. After a week, it can be then painted on in oil paints. She said the secret was in applying the coats thinly. I think that sounds pretty good. Maybe a pint is a bit expensive, but when you consider how concentrated it is, it sounds like it will go a long ways. I also emailed Dick Blick about their Masterpiece Vincent Stretched Linen, which I understand is made from the same linen as the Artfix L21C. Their stock is due to be replenished about July 26 and their prices are very good.

Judith

[Howard Metzenberg]

This is a message I posted to another thread. It applies to the use of and availability of lead in stretched canvas, but I think it applies equally to using your own lead based primer, to doing it yourself.

I think many people are asking for lead-primed canvas and lead primer because it is a vogue right now. Ask yourself whether you really need to use lead. Would those "old masters" still have used lead if they had all the options available to you?

ARTISTS - PLEASE DO NOT USE LEAD IF YOU HAVE NO REASON TO.

Lead is a naturally occuring atomic element. Except for the small amounts that are created as an end product in nuclear reactors, all lead that is on Earth is naturally occuring. Minute traces of lead are everywhere. We do not and never have lived in a lead free environment. Lead becomes dangerous when it is concentrated in ways such that humans, especially children, might inhale or ingest it. Please read the following notice from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

EPA Information on Lead Poisoning (http://www.epa.gov/region02/faq/lead_p.htm)

Most of us who are over the age of 25 grew up in an environment where lead was used as a gasoline additive. It is still used this way in poorer countries. It was also used as a white pigment and an opacifier in paints. We are all familiar with efforts to remove lead paint safely from older buildings. The contribution of artist paints to the amount of lead in the environment is negligible.

Lead is a major industrial product that is already used in thousands of other applications in our society. It is indeed a safety product when it is used as shielding for X-Rays, as when you put on a "lead apron" before a dental X-Ray.

When the United States Congress banned lead in paints, they wisely exempted fine artist paints, since the contribution of these paints to the amount of lead in the environment is negligible.

As artists, we should respect this exemption we have been given and use lead-based paint and lead based products responsibly, and only where they are absolutely necessary. For example, a student of old master techniques, or a restorer of paintings that contain lead-based pigments, should have the option to use lead-based paints and materials.

Buying a lead-primed canvas (or doing it yourself) is another matter. The traditional lead-based gesso that was used hundreds of years ago was sanded and smoothed in a process that we would not want workers of any nation to be exposed to without proper safety.

I know there are serious fine artists in the United States who do use lead-primed, sanded canvases. I hope they only buy their canvases and have them prepared by a responsible company. I know it is not unusual for a professional artist to pay more than $1000 for a large, stretched canvas from one of the custom preparers.

But for a hobby artist, lead-primed canvas is not justifiable just to try a new thing. The premium price that a few professionals pay for lead-primed canvas is enough to pay for proper health and safety techniques. But to expect that such health and safety precautions would be followed in the under $25.00 stretched canvases market is quite a stretch.

Most stretched canvas now comes from China and other low-wage countries. The process of coating, stretching, and sanding a lead-primed canvas necessarily creates risks of lead exposure to workers and persons living nearby. If you buy a lead-primed canvas product, ask yourself this question: Do you have confidence that proper safety precautions are being followed? Would you want to use lead-primed canvas if you knew that as a result, children some place in the world would be exposed to dangerous levels of lead?

Dick Blick does sell a few lead-based paints and products, such as the original Cremnitz White that is included in several lines of high-end oil paint. We offer these paints because there are legal and responsible uses for them. Please do not use them gratuitously. Note that many manufacturers of fine artist paint, such as Gamblin, have decided not to sell a lead-based paint.

As an artist, you have been given a special exemption from laws that prohibit the use of lead in paints and pigments. If you need to use lead, then use it responsibly. If you don't need to use lead, then please don't use it.

Howard Metzenberg
Dick Blick Art Materials
Highland Park, IL

[kiergaard]

Howard,

I am an artist who uses lead responsibly, every day. I paint on lead primed panel that I make myself- but I have never sanded lead primer. It seems that maybe you have primer and gesso mixed up as being the same thing. I have sanded gesso- but it is made without lead. In fact, I have never heard of putting lead in gesso.

Of course I would not want children exposed to dangerous lead. But, I can not imagine why they would sand lead primer in china or anywhere else.??

[french.painter]

Dear Artinwc,
I size my canvases with hide glue and then prime them with a lead white primer. It gives a refined and beautiful surface. It is also the most durable and resistant ground for a sound painting technique.
The basic formula of my primer is about 20g of linseed oil + 100g of pigment (Sennelier lead white). I grind it with much care, and if I want a more flatten surface, I add some extenders like silica or ground glass before grinding. Since lead white is very heavy and tend to settle in oil during storage, I regrind it frequently, specially if I reopen the can after a long time. But normally, by grinding of my own, I avoid long storage of the primer.
I brush it very thinly but without diluting it, with a hard short bristle brush.
It is dry to the touch in 3 days, and I paint over it two weeks after.
Try it: it gives a beautiful material, specially if you paint on fine linen of good quality (without holes between threads).
Enjoy!

[Howard Metzenberg]

Frenchpainter,

I think you're the kind of painter for whom this exception does exist and should continue to exist. You are using a very traditional technique (rabbit skin glue). We can always afford to have a few old-fashioned painters in this world to just keep the knowledge and the techniques alive. Congratulations to you.

But artists who have never used lead and are tempted to try it should know one more thing. Lead white (either lead carbonate, or alternatively lead oxide) will blacken over time with exposure to hydrogen sulfide, which occurs both naturally and from industrial sources. There are reasons why all those old oil paintings were varnished.

If you don't want to use toxic lead pigments, several manufacturers have an "underpainting white" that closely matches the color of lead carbonate, but in a safe and non-toxic convenience hue. Underpainting white is usually based mostly on titanium dioxide, with small amounts of several other pigments added to closely match lead.

Howard Metzenberg
Dick Blick Art Materials
Highland Park, IL

[french.painter]

Dear artinwc,
All Howard's warnings about lead toxicity are right. Using this pigment without special protective wear (gloves, glasses, etc.) can really kill you. If you can achieve the same painting effects without using this killing stuff, it will be better for you. I f you want to grind it, it is even more dangerous, because one of your raw ingredients is dry pigment. The powder can be very easily breathed. Some artists died because of that...

Dear Howard,
I am not a museum piece. I use all this material to paint minimalist abstract paintings! For a few years, I tried a lot of other materials and processes before chosing this method wich gives exactly the result I want. If i could avoid all these complicated precautions by using another material, I would have done it.
Thank you for your in-depth safety information about lead.

[Robman]

But artists who have never used lead and are tempted to try it should know one more thing. Lead white (either lead carbonate, or alternatively lead oxide) will blacken over time with exposure to hydrogen sulfide, which occurs both naturally and from industrial sources. There are reasons why all those old oil paintings were varnished.


I hear about this a lot. I've also heard that the same occurs with vermilion. And yet, I have never once seen it actually happen. Never. Not. Once.

BTW, does anybody actually make preprimed lead canvas?

[dbclemons]

I recall reading that lead paint will blacken when exposed to air over time, but only in aqueous media. When suspended in oil, this chemical reaction doesn't occur. Not certain I have the right white in mind, but fairly certain it was lead. Searching now...

[Robman]

I recall reading that lead paint will blacken when exposed to air over time, but only in aqueous media. When suspended in oil, this chemical reaction doesn't occur. Not certain I have the right white in mind, but fairly certain it was lead. Searching now...

Yeah, it was lead. Vermilion, too. And it has been stated that this happens in oils as well. But I think that this must happen in a paralel universe, cause I've never seen it happen myself.

[french.painter]

The problem with vernillion has disappeared since our paints almost never contain real vermillion any more. This pigment was mercury sufide, wich is the artificial form of cinnabar (naturally ocuring mercury sulfide). Nearly all the modern vermillions are made with organic azo reds or with cadmiums). The red cinnabar can become brownish meta-cinnabar. This reaction has been actually observed on a lot of ancient paintings. Restorers and chemists are still working to set up a precise description of the causes and process of this degradation.
The white lead carbonate can become grey if it reacts with chemicals containing free sulphur. I have in my studio test samples with various cadmium reds and yellow mixed with lead whites. All are oil paints. They are not varnished. And they remained unchanged since 1999. I think it is because of three reasons. First, in oil paint, the pigment is well coated by the binder and not in direct contact with other pigment particles which could react with. Second, good cadmiums do not contain free sulphur. All the sulphur is linked with cadmium, and this ionic link is not so easy to break. Third, our modern atmosphere is not polluted with the same products than in nineteenth century. During that time, all the energy was obtained by burning charcoal wich contained sulphur. Now, the pollution is different, and less dangerous for lead white.
Concerning safety facts, we have to know that the danger is the same with lead, mercury, or other heavy metals. Paints producers often put baryum in their paints, without telling us...

[csa-studio]

What does SP stand for?

[donn_granros]

I've seen oil primed canvas (thinking Dick Blick) any thoughts? I tend to paint in thin layers and the initial slowness to the brush (for want of a better term) annoys me. I have to build up layers to get to the level of fluidity that feels right. To that end I'm fiddling with plastic as canvas with not terrible results to this point. I currently use Frederick's portrait grade canvas or linen.

[WFMartin]

What does SP stand for?

"SP" stands for Studio Products. A man named Rob Howard sells oil paints, mediums, and other miscellaneous supplies, such as oil primer and rabbitskin glue. The discussion area of this operation is a Q & A forum, called Cennini.

Here's the link:

http://www.studioproducts.com/

If you have any aversion to using good, lead-based products, don't go there.;)

Bill

[turlogh]

I've seen oil primed canvas (thinking Dick Blick) any thoughts? I tend to paint in thin layers and the initial slowness to the brush (for want of a better term) annoys me. I have to build up layers to get to the level of fluidity that feels right. To that end I'm fiddling with plastic as canvas with not terrible results to this point. I currently use Frederick's portrait grade canvas or linen.
Oil primers are less absorbent and more slippery than acrylic primers. If you find that painting on acrylic with oil paint is too chattery (my favorite word for this effect) then you should definitely try oil priming. Lead-oil primer slightly more slippery than titanium-oil primer, but both are far less chattery than acrylic primer.

[donn_granros]

Do you feel that an oil primed regular canvas might offer less 'chatter' (or slowness)? I noticed that Dick Blick offers yarka oil primed canvas. Might be worth a shot.

Working on the plastic as canvas concept seems to track pretty well with oil paint and liquin as a medium. The 'chatter' is minimized (I think we are talking about the same trait). I do have the intention of being a 'serious' painter in the realistic, maybe impressionistic, style so there I will remain with canvas or linen. I quit painting at around age 35 and restarted a few years ago. Before I quit I amassed quite a pile of drawings, some transparent, some oils. I am using the transparent acrylic to overlay some of the things I did before with what I can do now. Seems to create a continuity (in my mind at least)

Thanks for your observations and opinions. I get the impression that you have devoted more than a little study to painting. I learn something here every day. Hopefully I can reciprocate.

[Mark Diederichsen]

Italianartstore.com (http://italianartstore.bizland.com/store/Italian_Art_Store_Linen_Gallery_Wrap.html) sells lead primed linen, stretched or in rolls.

Lead white (either lead carbonate, or alternatively lead oxide) will blacken over time with exposure to hydrogen sulfide If the air around your painting is full of hydrogen sulfide, you have a lot more to be worried about than the lead turning black.

[franz]

I’m joining this discussion late, so I apologize if I am repeating what has already been said (I didn’t read all responses, sorry). But what I want to say is that there is nothing, repeat nothing, like a hand done, linen, rabbit skin glue, lead white priming; the brush absolutely dances. But such an effort is expensive in both time and money. And it just gets harder and harder to get lead white, at least in the US, for any reasonable cost. What I do, as a makeshift substitute, is to coat acrylic primed cotton with W&N Foundation white. (This is a lead white ground in pure linseed oil rather than some other slower drying oil.) For archival purposes, I’m sure it isn’t as good. But it paints pretty close.

Also the advice for either painting right away or waiting is sound. But I think that 6 months might be excessive for lead white. A month or two should be fine, I think.

[jecoe]

But what I want to say is that there is nothing, repeat nothing, like a hand done, linen, rabbit skin glue, lead white priming; the brush absolutely dances.


I am coming into this thread late, as well, but I want to second what franz says. I agree that there is nothing like lead priming on hide glue on linen. I would say that the brush glides across the canvas, like skates on ice. It is amazing - almost magical. Back when I was young and fearless (foolish?), I used to prepare my own canvases with Sennelier lead white used as primer. Too bad I was too young to appreciate it.

Then I grew up and got wisdom. I also got married and had children, and realized that I did not want to poison my family, or myself. I still prepare my own canvases, using expensive grades of Utrecht linen and traditional rabbit skin glue sizing. For primer I use the Gamblin ground. Yes, it is a bit glossy after two coats, but you can kill the gloss after it is cured by wiping it down with turpenoid in 4x0 steel wool. A thin imprimatura of burnt sienna will kill the gloss, too. I have confidence in the Gamblin ground. It is a good product.
I follow their directions to spread it as thinly as possible into the weave of the stretched, sized linen with a knife, and then smooth out the knife marks with a stiff wide brush. I apply a second coat to most linens the following day (except the finest portrait weaves).

I also buy prepared linen in rolls - but only oil primed linen. I prefer the Claessens #66, which has a nice tooth and receptive surface. It's much faster than preparing my own from scratch(Gamblin recommends curing their primer for at least one week), but the machined surface of the roll linen has much less character and texture than linen that I prepare myself. Still, for convenience, and for gluing down onto board, it is perfect.

I have used the Williamsburg titanium primer, as well. I found that the linseed oil primer yellowed significantly more than the alkyd as it dried. It does improve as it cures. I always would let those canvases sit for at least 6 months - but that takes some planning ahead! (and a big studio). I like to have a range of prepared canvases here at all times. I find that having lots of them ready to go makes each one a bit less precious, and frees me up to work more readily. I recently tallied up all my unused stretched canvases and counted up nearly 50! Some have been sitting around for years, waiting for their time. The newest batch I stretched just last week. Preparing canvases is a great break from painting, and I think it's fun, too. My wife sees how much care and time goes into preparing them, though, and she thinks I'm crazy.

Hope that helps. Nice to check-in here at the Oil Forum,

Jim

[bgreenaker]

Italianartstore.com (http://italianartstore.bizland.com/store/Italian_Art_Store_Linen_Gallery_Wrap.html) sells lead primed linen, stretched or in rolls.

If the air around your painting is full of hydrogen sulfide, you have a lot more to be worried about than the lead turning black.
:eek: Yeah my primer would be the least of my problems!!:rolleyes:

Betsy:cool: