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JustjoGA
07-09-2005, 07:03 PM
OK, Washer Folks...
My work so far today on this... may end up a "practice" piece.
Approx. 8" x 11" Arches CP, Grumbacher and Da Vinci paints,
Burnt Sienna, Hooker's green, mixed black (what a chore!) to
this point. Oh, and the reference is the old store painting I did
20 years ago... I may be breaking all sorts of rules/norms/traditions...
I just do it as I see it... As always, all C & C gratefully accepted,
maybe acted on, but always filed for future reference. Can't
give a step-by-step cause I'm not sure what the steps are :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Jul-2005/8055-OldStoreWIPWC.jpg

Jo in Georgia

SusanKay
07-09-2005, 07:19 PM
JO,
It looks like it has a good start.
Who needs steps, ey, just paint.
Do you have a ref photo?
suz

JustjoGA
07-09-2005, 07:33 PM
Oh, and the reference is the old store painting I did
20 years ago...

Susan, see my sig line :) :angel: :D

Jenoir
07-09-2005, 08:38 PM
I think it looks pretty good so far.

Little Old Lady
07-09-2005, 08:51 PM
Looking good!
JoAnn

JustjoGA
07-09-2005, 09:00 PM
Thanks, Susan, Jenny & JoAnn... Hope
someone comes up with some suggestions.
I am flying blind here... 20 years is too long
to remember what I did and how...

Jo in Georgia

laudesan
07-09-2005, 11:08 PM
So far so good Jo. Looking forward to next step g/f..

ripvanblair
07-10-2005, 04:20 AM
Good start looks like a fine painting---------Alan

painterbear
07-10-2005, 06:11 AM
Jo,
Do you have to make this painting exactly like that one, or does just the subject have to be the same?

If you can make changes, I think the sky could be a stronger blue to set the trees against. Also, maybe more variety in the greens on the trees and some air holes (for the birds to fly through) in their canopy.

I love that old gas pump on the right side and the old-timey look to the building.

Sylvia

jaytee
07-10-2005, 07:28 AM
Jo...... great start......... and do it how you are moved to do it now.......i cant remember what I did 5 minutes after doing it..... 20 years ???? :eek:

JustjoGA
07-10-2005, 09:56 AM
LOL.. thanks, JT, Sylvia, Alan, JJ... You guys are
SO good at giving encouragement!!

Sylvia, I intend to do it somewhat differently..
especially with the sky and trees (one thing my
instructor did not have us work much on)...
I am avidly reading the Foliage Classroom now...
and all the Skies homework thread...

Funny thing is ... I want the old dilapidated look,
yet I'm finding it hard to retain the white ... this
is a lot more detail work in small areas than I
remembered. But I will forge on ... and see what
my brush tells me today :D

THANKS, ALL, for looking and commenting... I
noticed I have 9 posts out of 100 viewers :D

Jo in Georgia

idcrisis55
07-10-2005, 10:54 AM
I'm just echoing what the others have said lol. It is looking very good looking forward to seeing your next update.

Ann

jaytee
07-10-2005, 11:24 AM
JO
I noticed I have 9 posts out of 100 viewers
spot on average......... most painting threads , Ive noticed, get rather under 10% posts to views !!

Yorky
07-10-2005, 03:33 PM
I always liked your storefront painting, Jo, and this one is coming on nicely.

Incidentally, after seeing Shelley's recent house painting I am sold on refletions in window panes and shall try it on my next one. In your case they don't have to be sophisticated, just some indication of a change in tone.

Doug

Alan Cross
07-10-2005, 03:40 PM
Good start Jo,
Alan :)

JustjoGA
07-10-2005, 03:48 PM
Thanks, Yorky... I'll take care of that... Just what
I need, a little direction on the details... :)

Thanks Alan...

Jo in Georgia

nes7827
07-11-2005, 12:51 PM
Hi Jo, I haven't done enough of this kind of thing to be of much help. I know that when many people paint detailed pictures, they tend to work in sections - paint the sky, let it dry; paint the roof, let it dry; the grass, a tree, etc. The paint and the water never have a chance to interact and do all of the wonderful things watercolor does for you, if you allow it. The easiest remedy is to do what Arnold does: paint fast. This will necessitate taking liberties with detail, or leaving it out all together, but it makes for wonderful art. Look at some of his recent stuff compared to the reference pics he used.

If it's impossible to paint fast (for whatever reason), there are lots of tricks to making an essentially tight painting appear loose and fast - I know, I use them all the time!
At any rate, doing a commission, you might not feel so at liberty, so my main advice would be to keep it wet-looking. :clap: Nick

CharM
07-11-2005, 01:07 PM
Hi Jo... it looks to me as though you have a good start... I don't *do* architectural compositions, so really can't offer much more than moral support...

Counting the number of posts vs. viewers isn't really any kind of indicator... the quality of comments seems to me would be more important than the quantity... Frankly, there's some terrific advice in your thread!!!!

JustjoGA
07-11-2005, 05:17 PM
Oh, my AM I getting some great guidance and support, Char...
Nick, I apprciate so much your input and viewpoint... I know I
wish each time I see a new one from you or Arnold, that I could
have mine come out with some of the elements you use... Thanks
so much for looking and offering insight to me...

Jo in Georgia ...

AnneBedford
07-11-2005, 07:25 PM
Jo,
You may get two from me. I thought I had posted, but when I flipped to see if it read right, it was gone. This has happened to me before. I like Doug's suggestion of the reflections shown so effectively in Shelley's house painting. The other suggestion that comes to mind is to gray down the left hand building (as we look at it) to set it back some from the front. I think you have a nice start. Do try to put more variety in the windows. I have always been told by instructors to make each one at least a little different.
Anne

laudesan
07-12-2005, 12:38 AM
Jo doyou have an update for us???

Remember don't make your shadows grey and lifeless..

For that dilapidated look, I suggest you dry brush using burnt sienna and a little yellow ochre on the walls leaving a fair bit if white.

Try on scrap paper first before doing it on your painting tho' don't want to ruin your piece if it is not what you were looking for..

keep going g/f.

nes7827
07-14-2005, 12:37 PM
Jo, when I think about one common thread in all of the w/c I admire, it is the "wet look" factor turned on high.
It is Watercolor, let it do its thing! :clap:

JustjoGA
07-16-2005, 03:07 PM
Well, it's Saturday 7/16, so I've managed a little more
work on the Old Store... no foliage yet... that scares
me to even start :( ... no sky yet ... probably next step.
C & C invited, needed and gratefully received.

BTW, Yorky... there is no glass in the windows, would there
still be some type of light reflection ?

Jo in Georgia

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jul-2005/8055-OldStoreWIPWC2.jpg

JustjoGA
07-16-2005, 07:07 PM
OK, can't edit and revise, so one more post for today...
My progress so far...

Jo in Georgia

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jul-2005/8055-OldStoreWIPWC2.jpg

Yorky
07-16-2005, 07:07 PM
Looking good Jo - of course if there is no glass there would be no reflectoins, but maybe a hint of the interior.

Doug

laudesan
07-16-2005, 09:39 PM
Looking good Jo.. Love the green tiled roof !!!

JustjoGA
07-16-2005, 09:56 PM
Last for tonight.... I'm not liking it much, but will put in trees
and foreground and call it done...

Jo in Georgia

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jul-2005/8055-OldStoreWIPWC3.jpg

laudesan
07-16-2005, 10:00 PM
I think you will like it heaps in a couple of days without looking at it..:D I think it is really good Jo!!!

FriendCarol
07-16-2005, 10:25 PM
It's looking good so far!

Mixing black is a pain, isn't it? It goes much faster if you start with almost no water. Each time I'm about to start a new painting, I just about always mix my dark/black first. That's a trick I learned about the 3rd time I did a WDE -- over a year ago now! Mixing the black/dark first serves as a final review of my palette for the new painting, and having it right there saves time in the long run.

On my bed tray, I make dark/black in the 'cover' of my nesting porcelain mixing dishes (since I use so little water, I know it'll be dry by the time I'm ready to cover the rest of the stack :D ). At my painting table, I have a special small glass dish which always holds the dark/black. :)

JustjoGA
07-16-2005, 10:52 PM
Thanks, Carol... the black was done after asking what 3 colors to mix (FUB,AlzCr,BS)...
it's the gray shades I have a hard time with... mine
(on this piece) are definitely not consistent... I've been told "no
Payne's gray" [if so, why do they sell it?]. I've also heard/read
to use "dirty water" for shading/grays... My dirty water is just
that ... yuck!

How in the world did I ever paint before having my WC!
coaches and critiquers? :D :D

Jo in Georgia

FriendCarol
07-16-2005, 11:14 PM
Well, there are a large number of ways to mix dark/black. One reason I mix mine first is this gives me a chance to make sure my palette for the painting I'm planning has some pigments that can be high-valued and are mixing complements. That is, I do not 'add' black, even a mixed black -- I always mix it from the pigments that are going into the painting.

One reason it's good to have the dark on hand from the start is that when I need to dull or darken a color, I can almost always just add a little of my 'black.' Greens, especially, usually need a bit of neutralizing. :D Adding the dark to a 'local color' makes a 'shadow color,' also (unless that shadow is illumined by an alternate light source, such as reflected light from the sky, when the direct source is blocked).

It's really okay to use sepia, indigo, Payne's gray, or neutral tint, etc. to darken colors. Even Zoltan Szabo used some of these! But if you can learn to plan for your darks from the start, as you design your palette for a particular painting, you can get much better color harmony (and maybe less mud!).

Handprint.com offers (of course) a good list of mixing complements; I can find the specific page, if you're interested. In addition, the Virtual Palette (on the Tools menu, where you also see the Uploader) is a great tool to try various pigment combinations. In fact, the Virtual Palette even shows a complement for a pigment you choose. (That's how I finally learned Indian red would complement Cerulean blue when I was trying to get a 'haze' effect from my Cerulean for a beach sunrise series!)

This does look pretty good, really. I think you will like it once you have finished up the rest. (Training yourself to expect 'the uglies' seems to be half the battle in getting through to the other side!) :)

laudesan
07-16-2005, 11:16 PM
Jo aliz crim and viridian makes a delicious grey.. Burnt Sienna and Fub do too..

Paynes grey is useful for "greying" other colours.. I don't have it tho'. I have nuetral tint somewhere but haven't used it in a couple of years.

My fave is Perm Rose and viridian for grey..

If I remember rightly yellow ochre and purple make a nice juicy grey too..

JustjoGA
07-17-2005, 03:13 PM
Last WIP update... Left to do to finish: foreground and trees (when I can
figure out how to do them :(

Jo in Georgia

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Jul-2005/8055-OldStoreWIPWC4.jpg

Yorky
07-17-2005, 03:16 PM
No picture, Jo!

BTW it would be better to post the final version in this thread and then in the thumbnail gallery.

OK Jo, picture has appeared now - don't know why it didn't load first time.

Just the finishing touches now.

Doug

JustjoGA
07-17-2005, 09:50 PM
FINAL... FINAL... FINAL...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Jul-2005/8055-Old_Store_Final_WC.jpg

Jo in Georgia

FriendCarol
07-17-2005, 10:02 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap: You did it!

Okay, but I have a small suggestion (really, it is small!): If you did a gradated wash from foreground back, just a little ways, to make it darker in front, our attention wouldn't be so drawn to that high-chroma foreground. It's a bit bright in the front here! Quick and easy fix, just to darken it a little.

Very nice atmospheric work. :)

JustjoGA
07-17-2005, 10:15 PM
OK, Carol... but with what... it's already muddy from
trying to dull it down...

Jo in Georgia

FriendCarol
07-17-2005, 10:26 PM
Well, what's on your palette? :D If I were doing this, and I'd been using burnt sienna (W/N brand -- which is synthetic iron oxide and nicely transparent), I think I'd use that. But not a real earth color bs.

It's hard to tell from the small scanned image, but it looks as if your black is fairly decent -- transparent, I mean. If you have some of that left, maybe a tint of it? Just over the very front of that ochre color?

You could try a test swatch. :D

laudesan
07-17-2005, 10:45 PM
Geesh had this beaut reply all typed out and hit wrong button.. brb

O.K. I really do like your painting heaps!!!!!!!!!!!

For the front road, (I would print out the painting to practice first).

I would splatter some Burnt Sienna on the road for texture. Use a toothbrush as that will give you fine splatter. PRACTICE first on the printout. :D Actually I would do a fine slpatter of the BS and then a slightly larger but less splatter again with a little of your sky blue added in the grey it a bit.. If you know what I mean.

For your folliage..
I would get some hookers green and mix with a tiny bit of fub and add say 4 little dark bits to the right hand side of the LEFT tree, and to the left hand side down low where the building is on the RIGHT tree.. Just to give a more 3D look forming and shaping.

Love your sky holes!!

artmom
07-17-2005, 10:45 PM
Jo, this has turned out very nicely. :D I personally think it is finished.

Lyn

JustjoGA
07-17-2005, 10:46 PM
Thank you... your suggestions are most appreciated.

Jo in Georgia

laudesan
07-17-2005, 10:53 PM
Jo did you see my reply???

JustjoGA
07-17-2005, 11:21 PM
Yes, I did... PM'd you, JJ...

Jo in Georgia

Yorky
07-18-2005, 02:49 AM
Isn't that diagonal shadow wonderful? It really makes the painting!

Well done Jo, the emphasis is on the store, as it should be.

Doug

Yorky
07-18-2005, 11:00 AM
Well done Jo, I see you managed to post it in the thumbnail gallery :clap:

Doug

nes7827
07-18-2005, 11:17 AM
Hi Jo, nice job. Sorry if my earlier posts were inappropriate - according to the messages I received from Yorky, I am always trying to "force" my style on everyone else. He has missed the point once again re my critique - it has nothing to do with realistic vs. abstract, but rather the approach and handling.

As I stated earlier, the one common thread I see in great watercolor is a wet look - that has nothing to do with representation.

I believe most people formulate critiques based on their own criteria. Yorky himself constantly harps on the perspective issue, even when perspective is not an important part of the work at hand. Maybe he's trying to force his style on everyone else....

JustjoGA
07-18-2005, 11:30 AM
Thanks, Lyn, Yorky, Nick for your comments ... thanks for the Thumbnail
help too Yorky... I am glad it is finished...I sure hope the buyer likes it!

Jo in Georgia

ElizabethAnne
07-22-2005, 06:58 AM
Jo, you did a great job with this! Your client was thrilled, I'm sure.

ElizabethAnne

ripvanblair
07-22-2005, 07:36 AM
Looks stunning, you've really pulled this together, looks just right-------well done------Alan

Strawberry Wine
07-22-2005, 07:01 PM
WHOOT Jo. this sure looks fine to me! Good Stuff.

Cheers,

Gail