What is your favorite online store for pastels and supplies? [Archive]

Khadres

07-04-2005, 02:44 PM

I voted for Blick's altho I like Dakota a lot too. With Blick's, however, I can get ALL kinds of art gear, not just pastel-related, so that was the deciding factor. Jerry's would come in third and FAS fourth. Have not had that much experience with the others yet.

I like Blick's because shipments are about as fast as any, if not faster, and pkgs come in good shape with seldom a mistake. When I had trouble with one recent order, they fixed it right away with no quibbling.

On the other hand, Dakota has a broader range of pastel supplies since that is it's focus. I can get virtually any brand there except the fancy French one I can't afford anyway.

The Fine Art Store has the best "online swatch" viewer where you can see a relatively accurate rendering of each color.

When it comes to Unison pastels in particular, Jackson's in the UK seems to be best...just as fast as Blick's, but quite a lot cheaper.

Paula Ford

07-04-2005, 03:30 PM

My vote goes to Dick Blick. They always have what I need and their prices are terrific.

Though I also order from Jerry's when they are having sales. My pastel box came from Dakota, so I like them also.

Paula

ExpressiveAngie

07-04-2005, 03:35 PM

I voted Dakota...i love the fact they are devoted to pastels.

My favorite online art store for things not just pastel is http://www.cheapjoes.com/
they dont charge me sales tax like dickblick does, I dont like paying shipping and sales tax!

HarvestMoon

07-04-2005, 04:05 PM

Sorry I forgot Jacksons and cheapjoes- and I think it is too late to add it!

K Taylor-Green

07-04-2005, 04:30 PM

I'd have to say Jerry's. Their open stock selection is huge, their prices reasonable, and I haven't had any problems they couldn't fix.
As for real life shopping, Blick's. Decent selection, decent prices, and there is one close by!

Kathryn Wilson

07-04-2005, 07:38 PM

Well, if you answer the poll question faithfully, my vote is for Dakota - they are a dedicated pastel seller and know the products they sell. Even though I live in the town where Jerry's has their warehouse and a retail store, they know nothing about pastels other than brand and pricing.

Khadres

07-04-2005, 08:27 PM

Well, "supplies" can include anything, I suppose. And if I want stuff like artists tape to hold my paper down and inexpensive drawing boards and daylight bulbs for lighting and pencil sharpeners for pastel pencils and on and on...Blick's has all that too.

On the other hand, Dakota has specialty items like hand done color charts, myriad storage options, and Kitty's moist pastels which makes them stand out, as well. It's a close call as far as I'm concerned, but Blick's gets more of my money, so far.

MarshaSavage

07-05-2005, 05:56 AM

Khadres

07-05-2005, 07:35 AM

Well, it might sound goofy, but I voted for Terry Ludwig -- I was thinking "Pastels" not supplies.

If I had to think supplies plus pastels, then probably I would have voted for Dakota -- they know! Where was ASW Express? I know you can't list all the suppliers, but they are about the only other company I order from (Jackson's for Unisons, of course). Oh well!

My favorite pastels are Ludwig's and I won't order them from anyone but Terry himself!

This is probably off topic for this thread, but I'm just wondering...since you order from Terry direct, I'm curious how you keep tabs on what color is what so you can do that... Do you put sample marks on paper and mail them to him or what? I know he puts a code list in each box showing which is what code but what happens if you lose the list? His colors are yummy but I'd hate to have to just order "that wonderful eggplantypurplyred" or "that baby poo green", etc. Has to be a better way and I figure you'd know if anybody does! :D

MarshaSavage

07-05-2005, 07:47 AM

Funny you should ask that -- I e-mailed him the other day, he called the next and we talked about what I needed -- I told him I needed that darkest purply-eggplant color. He laughed and told me the number -- do you think I wrote it down -- Noooooo!

But, yes I have his list included with different boxes -- and I make a mark next to the numbers so that I usually could tell him what I want. But, I tell my students I don't usually know the number of any pastel and just look (when I go to a brick and mortar store) for something similar (except #305 spruce blue in NuPastel which I use to block in all the darks when I lay in a painting - not black).

So I told Terry, I want some plein air colors for here in Georgia - he came and painted a couple of years ago (also taught) here and kinda knows what I'm talking about (our humidity creates a different kind of green and blue). So, I am in the process of writing down what colors - numbers if I know them and descriptions (as in greens to be mossy, avocado, some that are blue-green as trees in the distance, and grey blues and grey purples for distance, etc.). Whatever he thinks is what I'll try -- I don't like to always have the same color -- except for that purply-eggplant color. I could not paint without it!

So - I'm afraid I'm not a lot of help. I do try to be good.

HarvestMoon

07-05-2005, 09:11 AM

Don't think it is silly to vote for the TerryLudwig.com site or the MountVisionPastels.com sites- these are sites on the internet from which you can directly order pastels- admididly, there is only ONE kind of pastel there, but if that is where you usually order, vote for it! By the fall, GreatAmerican will have a website too. I think, since I said 'and supplies' I probably should have left these off...I think I had overdosed on hot dogs yesterday (the 4th)

scall0way

07-05-2005, 10:58 AM

I voted for dickblick because I have had good experience ordering from them, and when I have a good experience I tend to stick with that vendor. :)

I also like Jerrys but since they have a store 15 minutes from my house I always go there in person rather than use mail order.

Debbie C.

HarvestMoon

07-12-2005, 10:06 PM

:D I recently ordered something major from FAS, and had not even had the item shipped from them a couple of weeks later, when I had to cancel the order for various reasons. They said on the site they would not charge my card until they shipped, then they did anyway. Then they told me how much I had hurt their store by cancelling. They asked if they could charge me for the credit card charges that charging the card then crediting the card would create. I felt guilty so I said ok- the amount though that was actually charged by them seemed higher, so I suspect I paid for shipping as well. I also paid interest for the amount on my own card- all because they violated their own policy by charging me before shipping the order. When I asked about this (it had been burning me up), they said basically I was a flaky customer- I had asked when the roches first came out if I could have them one color set at a time for the rest of my life or something like that- I was joking but it was all a disaster and perhaps I was in too much of a pastel frenzy. I had spent several hundred dollars there this year though. The roches I did buy from them, once I really started serious testing and usage of them, were mostly in CRUMBS. The colors were great and vivid, but the sticks were all broken up and crumbly despite the plastic tubes they came in.

On the other hand, Dakota has been quick to set things right if something is wrong with an order, and Dick Blick hands down gets from me the customer service award - I ordered a pricy watercolor field set- and there were several design flaws, plus the water kept seeping out of the fresh water cup. I asked them if it was returnable, although I had used it, and they said sure- no problem. Wish they had more pastel stuff. Jerry's has been so-so on customer service and shipping charges. I had Madison send the wrong item completely (actually the drop shipper did) and 1-1/2 weeks later after convincing them that this set had nothing to do with what I ordered, am still waiting for fed-ex to pick up the item that was wrong.... the funny thing is, I almost NEVER cancel or return things unless there is a really serious issue..... like I get the totally wrong thing, it doesn't work, or I find out the card is already over the limit or that what I ordered is really NOT worth the high price (the 2nd reason I cancelled the FAS order). Jackson's in the UK has been completely outstanding, and I forgot to even put them on the poll! I am sorry for that. I forgot cheap joes because I can never find much in the way of pastels- again, my apologies...

Khadres

07-12-2005, 11:37 PM

FAS never impressed me much, either. Slowish and their shipping's not cheap either. I do like their online color swatches for the pastels, tho. They seem to be fairly close to the real thing most of the time. Cheap Joe's is great to deal with but like you say, not the best prices and limited stock. Looks like Dakota and Blicks are winning the poll, so I'm assuming everyone else's experience with them has been like my own...good.

Howard Metzenberg

07-14-2005, 08:37 PM

I wish I could say I feel flattered that we are in first place right now, but I actually feel a bit embarassed.

While I recuse myself from voting, I would probably vote for Dakota if I were a qualified pastel artist, and I considered myself eligible to vote. Perhaps some of you are Wet Canvas regulars, who know we have supported Wet Canvas. You knew I would eventually run into this thread. I hope nobody voted for us for that reason.

We are still learning in the pastels field. It was only about five years ago that we added our first complete line of open stock pastels. Rick Rousseau (an itinerant art supply specialist who worked for us, after working for Pearl, and who now works for Joe) taught us that real pastel artists buy many brands of pastels, mixing and matching to find their favorite colors. He helped us identify the top five lines of pastels, and that's what we now offer. Plus a few others, like Townsend Terrages, that have an exotic ring.

Compared to Dick Blick, Dakota Pastels is a tiny company, and it's not in either of the Dakotas. I have never met the founder, but I have heard that he lives in Washington State, that he used to work for Daniel Smith. What a job he has done! I'm sure that his inventory fits into a garage! Yet he manages to offer more than 30 complete lines of pastels, oil pastels, and pastel pencils in open stock.

We should have such a selection. How can it be that a tiny company like Dakota can offer so many more choices than we can, even with our modern 21st century warehouse?

In fact, we more or less decided earlier this year that this was not a good year to increase our selection of open stock pastels. We are making technological changes to our warehouse right now, kind of like rebuilding it from within. In another year, we'll be in a better position to add new lines of open stock pastels, and we surely will.

I do actually think we deserve second place, and second place is not always bad. What's different about us and Dakota is that our business is scalable, and his is not. Thanks to people other than me, like my cousin Bob, who are good at operations, we can grow both bigger and broader over time.

I think the owner of Dakota understands that he has built the perfect small business. I am very impressed by many of his innovations, like the color charts and sample packs. He may or may not have reached his natural limits at this time, but he has a business that he understands perfectly. By comparison, I can think of several other art supplies companies that outgrew their ability to provide quality customer service.

So for right now, I am not actually voting, but I would feel very comfortable in second place. That being said, it may not look like Dick Blick is doing a lot in the pastels area at this time, but that's not true. We are watching and learning, and we will be improving, so Dakota better watch out. I hope that a few years from now, we'll actually deserve to win.

Howard Metzenberg
Dick Blick Art Materials
Highland Park, IL

"Opinion expressed is my personal opinion, not that of Dick Blick Art Materials."

HarvestMoon

07-14-2005, 09:24 PM

Howard, I started the thread and actually had no idea anyone from Dick Blick (or Dakota) would ever read it. However, I have ordered a lot from both your site and Dakota, and both are great. Your site may not have as many pastels, but it has fantastic customer support- I had to return something that was NOT your fault but mine, and you not only took it back, but sent an email confirming that the charges had been reversed. Now THAT is customer service. I go to the site DAILY, today was looking at the artist smocks- you have a great price on everything like finger cots. I have had a couple of classes in statistics, and the survey is not statistically significant (not enough votes), but both Dick Blick and Dakota have great products, and great prices, AND great customer service. Many of the pastel artists also order other supplies- like watercolors, etc.
thanks so much for participating in the forum!

Khadres

07-15-2005, 12:03 AM

I agree with purples on this one. I remembered Dick Blick from my oil painting days back in the 80s, so it was the first place I ordered pastels from in early '04. While Dakota is very cool, it is, as you say, highly specialized and quite often I need things not necessarily pastel only. I've ordered everything from easels to pencil sharpeners to spray fixative to water color pans to drawing boards from Blick's and am always more than pleased with the speed of delivery, the correctness of the orders, the fact that the packing is obviously done with care, and any questions are answered quickly. And....last but not least, your prices on the pastels you DO carry is sometimes better than Dakotas. Now...if you eventually add Great American Artworks and Terry Ludwig to your array, you'll get my order even more often than you do now.

For strictly pastels, it's probably, as you say, still Dakotas in the lead, but for overall art supply, y'all are the winners, hands down.

HarvestMoon

07-15-2005, 12:54 AM

Jerry's always ends up canceling my back orders- even if there are a lot them it takes too long- and they don't even tell me. I DO love to go to the new Jerrys in Austin, esp. when they send me a 20% off coupon... but that is not online, and the stock and prices online is much better, not to mention no sales tax. Seeing those huge easles and desks in the flesh though makes me drool, and during the opening I saw Jerry himself...does not look like the cartoon guy ha...seems to be a very nice man.

I recently had ONE .5 ml tube of paint out of a 6 or so page invoice that was not in stock from Blicks. I laughed out loud when they sent this one little bitty tube in a little box, with bubble wrap filling the box, a decent sized box at that- I could not believe they would bother to ship this one little tube, but was impressed at that. Check out the Boxed Brenda Madison sets of Unison- the box is pretty small- could go anywhere- yet the selection is great!

I love Dakota too- and those GA's and boxes- have paid someone's salery there for the year I am sure!!

MarshaSavage

07-15-2005, 05:59 AM

Thanks Howard for talking about your business versus Dakota. It is always nice to hear from owners or managers regarding their take on the subject. I am about to order my first on-line order from Blick's. I have usually shied away from them because their prices were usually higher than ASW or Dakota specials. And, when buying individual items, I usually go to the brick-and-mortar stores here near Atlanta: Binders, Pearls or Utrecht. Never go to Blick's unless I just can't go into Atlanta -- their prices again are too high, and their supply was minimal at best. I hope the in-store pastel sections will be updated as well as the on-line stores.

But, if we don't tell you, then it can't be fixed, right?

I have only heard good things about ordering from Dick Blick, and so I am about to find out myself!

learning to paint

07-16-2005, 10:18 PM

It's worth a visit to Fine Art Store if you are in or near Rochester, NY. No other store in the US, and perhaps in the world, has so many complete collections of pastels on hand, ready for try-outs if you like. I've even tried Henri Roche pastels there. In fact, I have spent hours putting together palettes. Very nice people, knowledgeable, a great art supply store whose likes are almost never found anymore.

Perhaps the world? I've shopped in England and in France for pastels, and although I've found knowledgeable personnel and wide selections of certain product lines (Unision, Sennelier, etc.), FAS carries far more lines, and they've got everything in stock, all the time: Girault, Mount Vision, Sennelier, Schmincke, Townsend, Unison, whatever you like.

Bringer

12-28-2005, 03:53 PM

Hi,

I've started with ASW Express and since I haven't got any problems besides small ones that were promptly solved, I keep buying from them.
They have similar prices to Dick Blick and Jerry's.
Are they related to Jerry's ?
I wonder why people buy from Dakota. Their prices are higher. Is there areason for that ?

I didn't vote since there was no ASW

Best regards,

José

P.S. I must say that I've called Dick Blick for info and they seem to be
quite helpfull

Kathryn Wilson

12-28-2005, 04:56 PM

Jose, ASW and Jerry's may be owned by the same corp. - their warehouses are back to back in Raleigh - not sure what that arrangement is and they do have separate web sites. Strange.

I still buy at Jerrys because I can pick up the items, although it is a fight with them each time I order because there is no place on their catalog order sheet to indicate a local pick-up. So, if I order, I then have to call an order agent to have it changed and not be charged for the shipping. You would think a company this size would get it right (and I have repeatedly requested this change)(secretly hoping someone from Jerrys is reading this).

Beyond that, I have found Dakota to be very knowledgeable and helpful and they do have some things that are not carried by the big art suppliers.

I think comparing Mount Vision and Ludwig to the large catalog houses is unfair - it's like comparing apples to oranges.

KJSCL

12-28-2005, 05:08 PM

Interesting poll and thread, especially the post by Howard Metzenberg. Nice to see that he recognizes Dakota's success.

I voted for Dakota because they specialize in pastels. For pastels, I'd rather be able to choose from all the available brands and other items geared specifically to pastels. Here in Canada, we only have a fraction of the brands available, so if you want GA's, MV's etc you pretty much have to order from the Sates. Most other art supplies I can get locally, I wouldn't order those online because of the shipping charges to Canada.

I've ordered from Blick's and found them to be good, but they just didn't have the pastel selection that Dakota has. Dakota's prices can be a bit more expensive but they have good sale prices as well. I tried ordering from Jerry's once but when they informed me of the shipping charges to Canada I almost had a coronary!:evil:

*Marina*

12-28-2005, 05:15 PM

KJSCL

12-28-2005, 05:17 PM

Marina
My orders from Dakota's has always arrived in perfect condition. Not one broken or damaged pastel yet!

Bringer

12-28-2005, 05:18 PM

Hi Howard,

It's good to read a positive opinion about a competitor.
Unfortunately in my country public atendants(sp?) still prefer not to sell or sell not so proper goods, instead of indicating another competitor.
As as public atendant myself, if I don't have the correct product, I prefer to indicate where the person can find what he/she REALLY needs because I know that I'm captivating a future customer.

Best regards,

José

P.S. Now I've noticed that altough I indicate the paragraphs by starting it a space further, it does not show :-(

PeggyB

12-28-2005, 05:59 PM

Well I voted for Dakota because I've known Craig Lemley since before he started the pastel only line of art products. His original stores carried all art materials, and the store in Seattle still does. They may be a bit more expensive, but as others have pointed out they have good on-line sales. Above that though is the fact that if I have a question, I can call them on their 800 line and a very knowledgable person (frequently Craig himself) answers the phone and my question/s. Their delivery is very prompt - but then I'm only about 1 1/2 - 2 hours away depending upon traffic. Customer service is a high priority, and I appreciate that.

Peggy

prettytulips

12-28-2005, 07:19 PM

I admit I order pastels from the place that carries them the cheapest. Here is my process: I go to Jerry's to look at color and inventory because they have colors isntead of numbers. Then if their price is lower, I buy, if Dakota's is cheaper I buy there. But DakotaPastels doesn't show color values of open stock sticks, which I like. I also like knowing what sticks are in what set and Dakota offers that, so really, when buying pastels, I use Jerry's to look and then buy whoever has the cheapest price. Dakota is by far better in shipping than Jerry's. Dick Blick product info line was great, but prices are still higher in some cases. Sometimes, I just go to the local store to buy too.

Kelly

Bringer

12-28-2005, 07:49 PM

gfwolf

12-28-2005, 08:19 PM

I only once tried to order something from the States and that was at Jerry's. The shipping costs were so high I cancelled the order. It has put me off from ordering in the US. It is a shame as the selection is a lot bigger than in Europe. I wonder in what state pastels will arrive when travelling so far. In what state do your orders arrive?
Hi Marina,
I was going to tell you that all my orders arrive in the state of Colorado, but I see I misunderstood the question.:rolleyes:
I have bought from Dakota, Jerrys, Dick Blick, and ASW in the last 3 months (pastels are becoming a more expensive hobby than golf :o) and all the pastels ordered arrived without damage. The only broken pastels I have bought were 3 in a set of NuPastels I got from the local Hobby Lobby (which with a 40% discount coupon turned out to only be a few dollars more expensive than buying on-line).

Wolfie

HarvestMoon

12-29-2005, 09:42 AM

wow- blick and dakota at a dead even..... i would rate jerry's much higher on my list, as they have such an amazing selection, if they did not wash away the great prices with their shipping charges...
Linda

bluefish

12-29-2005, 10:02 AM

Purples:

I'm with you 100% on the OUTRAGEOUS shipping charges from Jerry's - the only way to get the message to them is to protest and buy elsewhere! The Italian Art Store ships for free any order over $150 and $7.95 for orders $25-$150.

bjcpaints

12-29-2005, 12:02 PM

:D Dick Blick hands down gets from me the customer service award -...

I so agree with this! I must state though that Mister Art did follow up by e-mail on an order I received and when I told them piece of the white velour I ordered was received damaged and dirty, they were quick to send me a new one at no additional charge. I would consider ordering from them again now because of that. Before they asked me about my order, I had already decided I would never order there again and chalked it up to experience (no pun intended:D ) I guess we do need to give each company a chance to be better at serving our needs by letting them know when and where they fall short .
Barbara

*Marina*

12-29-2005, 03:48 PM

Pleased to hear that pastels arrive in good shape. Gives me more confidence ordering through the internet. I might try Gerstaecker. Bringer, I think it is a german company. Might make payment easier as it is all in Euro's. Thank you for the suggestion.

artc

12-31-2005, 12:03 AM

Hey All.....I just gotta tell ya.....go to this website and look at their pastel sets and individual sticks...what a beautiful art supply store website.

www.fineartstore.com (http://www.fineartstore.com)

What beautiful pictures...a lot of the pastels are pictured in cut crystal bowls....it looks almost like a feast.

WARNING....HAVE TISSUES HANDY FIRST...DROOL AND KEYBOARDS DONT MIX....Art

K Taylor-Green

12-31-2005, 12:53 PM

I have ordered from the fine art store. Good prices, customer service, and the shipping wasn't terrible! I'd reccomend them.

dlake

01-01-2006, 05:37 PM

okay, these are my favs:

Dick Blick: Love. I especially am a fan since they are carrying more pastels.
there is a store about an hour from here and it's a great store. The people are really nice and helpful and fun. I also love the prices and I usually get stuff within 2 days.

Jerry's: Great prices. They have everything. They are really nice and I get stuff really fast. One of the great online stores.

FineArt: Good sales. I really like the pastel color cards they have when choosing colors individual and sets. Since I recently discovered the place I have yet to order but, am going to get a few things from them this week.

ASW: Talk about good prices. Right now you can get a 78 GAA pastel set for 159.00. I think they are connected to Jerry's. The address is the same.

Have not dealt with Dakota but, they seem a bit pricey compared to the above. They have the same selection as the ones above. When ordering I always look for the best prices. So, this is my fav list.

terence p

01-01-2006, 07:43 PM

this isnt really a store, but I have gotten some exceptional good buys by bidding on ebay. I check the prices in the various catalogues to make sure I know what the going price is before making any bids. If you want pastels, dont just type in "pastels" or you will get anything with that name, such as pastel sheets, pastel colored wallpaper etc. I type in the particular brand I might be interested in, such as Unison pastels, and then all types of pastels come up.

they have also always arrived in perfect shape- no broken sticks

I have ordered many set this way and only once did I have a problem. It did arrive finally but apparently the order had been misplaced, so instead of a fews days it too a couple of weeks.

dlake

01-01-2006, 10:06 PM

oh, I have too. There is a great dealer with excellent stuff and good pricing. they just changed the store name. If you look at the Unison listings, the guy is from atlanta. Really great. His stuff is really good and he is so nice. I can't remember the user name but, like I said look for Unisons and the address is atlanta.

fio44

01-05-2006, 11:16 AM

For me, there is no preference. I may spend more time searching, but really what I look for is the place that has what I want, in stock and at a reasonable price.

I'd actually prefer not to order online, as many times I like to test the pastels, hold them in my hand and understand their qualities prior to buying. Online is less personal too, especially when you're trying to deal with just order takers as opposed to artists. Online also can be a problem when trying to return items or get bills corrected, which I've experienced in the past.

But alas, not very many art stores in my area carry a wide enough selection, with only Pearl Paint in Cambridge/Boston carrying a decent variety. However, the need to take the train, and the time to get to their store, for prices that I don't find overly appealing doesn't do it for me, and thus, I am often relegated to ordering online. A necessary evil I guess? :(

HarvestMoon

01-05-2006, 12:02 PM

Hi guys- had not even thought of putting ebay on the poll- so sorry!!
Fine Art Supply has a beautiful website don't they?
Dakota is pulling slightly in front here...

Jeff- will have to look at your site- what a lot of initials- wow!!! Yes, they are better to touch- but our local store have signs saying you can't test them anyway without buying ! Can understand their concern though, since the cost so much and nobody wants to buy a broken one... still they could leave a few of each brand around...
Linda

PS- just looked at Jeff's site- good heavens.... you deserve a few more initials... how about God of Pastels?

dlake

01-05-2006, 07:41 PM

Kathryn Wilson

01-05-2006, 10:29 PM

I just received Jerry's newest catalog - Sennelier has a new set out that I've not seen before. Pure color - no clay or fillers. Expensive!

I have my eye on a couple of things out of this eye candy catalog - :)

dlake

01-05-2006, 10:37 PM

Kat, I've seen the pure colors - 108 in the set? they look interesting, don't they.

fio44

01-06-2006, 08:07 AM

Jeff- will have to look at your site- what a lot of initials- wow!!! Yes, they are better to touch- but our local store have signs saying you can't test them anyway without buying ! Can understand their concern though, since the cost so much and nobody wants to buy a broken one... still they could leave a few of each brand around...
Linda

Hi Linda,

I hope you are well, send my best and thank for your very kind words.

I guess I am somewhat perplexed by the store's policy. The very essence of an artist is the desire and need to experiment, to caress and feel the products that will allow them to release their inner vision, we need to "play"!! The fact that your store does not allow you even this simple need of an artist tells me that they do not understand their customers. Their policy is akin to a car dealer saying you can't test drive the car before you buy.

One store near me, Charrette, has a small roll of paper next to the pastels they sell for testing, so the artist can see and feel the mark, the smoothness, where they can experience before they buy. They problem with Charrette is they only carry four brands of pastels, and their selection of Senelier is very limited. But at least they have a "play station" for the customer.

Past experience with some of the small "mom & pop" stores nearby has been of an equal understanding where they'll actually give some scraps of paper to test the pastel upon; why? Because A.) they understand their customer and
B.) if they give you some paper, you might actually buy some of that go along with your pastel purchase.

I am sorry to hear that your store is not more in tune with your needs and the needs of other artists they service. I find that people will be willing to spend a bit more locally if the service is there and if a true relationship developed between artist and proprietor.

As for the broken ones, well, to many pastel artists the broken pieces can be just as valuable as a full piece. Often many break them anyway to obtain that specific line, or get that desired effect. If they are afraid of too many being broken they can set some testers aside, or if they end up with too many broken, they can put them aside and offer them at a slightly lower piece in "as is" condition. I've had some stores actually give me the pastel when I've brought it to the counter, even when I offer the caveat: "this one is broken, would you be willing to sell it at a reduced price?" Again, a situation of a store understanding their customer, and realizing that even a small gesture like that can result in repeat business and a dedicated clientele.

Sorry to ramble.

PS- just looked at Jeff's site- good heavens.... you deserve a few more initials... how about God of Pastels?

Well, now I am truly blushing, or perhaps I should say, turning a shade of Vermillion…or…Cadmium Red? :-) I thank you again for your very kind words, they are very much appreciated.

Have a great day, and I wish you much happiness and success with your artistic pursuits.

fio44

01-06-2006, 08:34 AM

Wow, Jeff, you actually have places to buy on the spot and to test different pastels??? I'm so jealous. We have 3 craft stores in town with only icky stuff to buy and no testing (gee, Iwonder why....). I can drive an hour to Schaumberg and try a few lines at the dick blicks there. Rockford doesn't have an art store so on line or travel is the only way to get real art supplies.

Hi dlake,

I guess when you put it that way, I probably shouldn't complain. I live in an area of the country that has a long standing relationship with the arts, though at times you wouldn't know it based on how some towns treat the arts and the artists themselves. (there I go, being cranky again)

If you saw my response to Linda (purples), I am somewhat perplexed at a stores in this line of work denying people the opportunity to test, experience, enjoy the products before they buy. It shows a lack of understanding or appreciation for their customers IMHO. Instead of embracing them, they are holding them at arms length, extending a collection plate on a pole for the exchange of money for products and telling them, "you can find your own way out." It leaves me scratching my head. It's not a candy store where we're going to lick all the candies and then leave. Experience tells me, that if I test something at the store, I usually, more often than not, about 90% or more, buy the item.

I just ordered some paper from Dakota, my first shot at them. I love the site but, I find the price high. However, they are really, really nice and personal service. I didn't order enough paper and they called me to tell me and we added some. Wow, service, huh?? I find Blicks really nice, too. One complaint about Fine Art is the ordering is so laborious.

I've used Dakota in the past and yes, their pricing tends to be $5 - 10 dollars higher than most other online stores, even when they have them on sale. They have provided good service, and while I have not ordered recently, they used to offer a flat shipping fee, which when factored in, will bring their pricing to the level of other online stores. (why they just don't make the pricing comparable and forget the flat fee is beyond me, as I always think price first, and forget about the shipping until I'm actually checking out)

I've not really dealt with Blick's that often.

I hear you on the Fine Art ordering being laborious. Because of this reason, I tend to avoid them except as a last resort even though they have a great offering or products. I wrote them once asking why and noting the problem and their response was, shall we say, less than satisfactory. A definite case of "not listening to the customer"

I'll give you a good experience in customer service, though not art supply related. I used to do American Civil War reenacting. I contracted with a seamstress to make me a uniform. I placed the order, and upon receipt of that order, she called me to confirm all of the information. She did not and refused to cash the check until the uniform was completed, told me up front how long it would take and met that date to the day. She called me to tell me when, and how the uniform shipped, and then called a week later to ask if it arrived, how it arrived, in what condition, and if I was pleased. I assured her I was, and then she cashed the check. Perhaps a bit trusting on her part that I am/was honest, which I was and remain today, but even so, what service!!!

HarvestMoon

01-06-2006, 09:06 AM

fio44

01-06-2006, 09:35 AM

Jeff- well our big store here is the new Austin Jerry's- and it is so great to actually have a selection at all and decent prices, that I that I will put up with their policy- esp. since the other tiny (and only) real art store has a worse policy about the pastels... but I have seen folks letting their kids run amuck and do a huge amount of damage there...I break my pastels, but I prefer to do it myself- LOL

Hi Linda,

Mine tend to break every "fall", as in, I drop them, and they break! :-)

Jerry's is the store that won't allow testing? Even more perplexing. If I recall correctly, the few times I visited the Jerry's in Hartford, CT., they allowed testing. Of course, the manager was heavily involved with the arts in the area, including the CT. Pastel Society, so perhaps that resulted in a better understanding? Still, I just don't understand their policy.

As for the small store, they could set themselves apart with superior customer service, and are missing a great opportunity IMHO.

... my brother in law used to do civil war reinactments! Hope you did not get the part of someone who had to have their leg amputated the old fashioned way- with Wild Turkey... :D

No Wild Turkey for this teetotaler, but I used to do a heck of a head shot death. :-)

Have a great one!

(BTW, do you have any images online? I'd love to see some of your work)

dlake

01-06-2006, 09:44 AM

fio44

01-06-2006, 10:43 AM

Jeff - Oh you used to reenact Civil War. I'm a history nut. I have read some excellent books on the Civil War. McPherson's Battlecry of Freedom is truly a classic as well as Shelby Footes. His is an experience. I'll talk history any time. My whole self perks up at the mention.

Hi dlake,

Yup, both books are excellent. I met McPherson in Nov. 2004, only briefly though. He did a talk for CSPAN in July of 2004 at a Gallery that shows my work, and during his entire talk my work could be seen behind him on the wall. Not that it brought any recognition for my work, but still rather cool. Shelby Foote died last year. He always considered himself a writer first and foremost and not a historian. He could get downright nasty when people asked him why there were no foot-notes in his trilogy on the war. Still, it's an excellent read, even though some of the information contained within has since been shown not to be accurate due to new research. That will happen when you take 20+ years to write a series.

I reenacted for about ten years, portraying both sides of the coin. I had some good times, but the hobby itself can be rather dysfunctional with many believing their way or intrepretation is the right one, making for difficult relationships at times, and poor communication and cooperation. It is a hobby that lives the quote from the Pogo comic strip: "we have met they enemy and they are us"

Might I ask a question and I hope I do not offend, but what exactly does dlake represent? Do you live by "d lake?" (bad joke) Just curious as to the origins of your online name.

As for testing, Well, Blicks is wonderful. They have all the colors in about 4 brands at the Schaumberg store and you are free to test. And the people there are really helpful, friendly and above the norm. Highly recommend.

Excellent news!

But, Rockford is such a beige town. There are people who are creative but, that tendency is greatly discouraged.

That is discouraging!!! But not unusual here in the USA. I've been to Europe and they understand and appreciate art on such a higher level than we do here. In the USA it seems like the prevailing attitude is that, everybody wants to own a Wyeth, but they only want to pay $5.00 for the piece, so they can then brag about they own a piece worth thousands of dollars and got it for five. Am I being a bit cynical? :-)

Have a great day! We'll talk again.

dlake

01-06-2006, 10:56 AM

Hi! I watch Cspan alot. I love CspanII. book t.v. I think it's awsome to have your work on the air even if no one knows it's you. It's still a thrill. I once wrote a nice email to Pastel Journal and they printed it! Kinda cool

I do agree about Europe. But, I'm bias as my mother is from France and I think my French relatives are really cool. At least they have more to them than thinking something like Thomas Kincaid is real art.

My DLake is Diane Lake. Wanted something quick. I was blanking out when I joined and just couldnt think of anything clever. You always do after the fact. lol.
I really don't mind answering personal stuff. I don't get offended much. I'm not prissy.
I know that Shelby Foote was prickish. and concidered himself a fiction writer. But, his triology is still fantastic. I heard he died a few months ago - I think in September or somewhere around that time.
Oh, while I'm writing to you, your art is very good. Actually it's what I hope to eventually evolve to. Big dreams. I begin a class next week and even though it's for oils (no pastel classes in town, and we have 2 colleges). However, the teacher knows pastels and is going to help me with that on the side. She knows there is nowhere to go for pastels. I've only been working with color for a few years and pastels for one year. But, I dream of being good. lol

fio44

01-06-2006, 11:26 AM

Hi! I watch Cspan alot. I love CspanII. book t.v. I think it's awsome to have your work on the air even if no one knows it's you. It's still a thrill. I once wrote a nice email to Pastel Journal and they printed it! Kinda cool[?QUOTE]

That is cool. At least you know people actually read them. I've always found Pastel Journal to very receptive to correspondence. My experience has been that they're a top notch company/publication.

I used to watch CSPAN; I saw a wonderful presentation of the Lincoln/Douglas debates one year. I no longer have cable, believing the value for the expense did not match to my liking. It's a good thing, 'cause now I watch less TV and have less time to watch too! :-)

[QUOTE] I do agree about Europe. But, I'm bias as my mother is from France and I think my French relatives are really cool. At least they have more to them than thinking something like Thomas Kincaid is real art.

I've been to France once, Mt Ste. Michel and Normandy. The beaches at Normandy are impressive and makes the success of the assault in WWII
all the more impressive. Much of the fields are roped off above due to landmines still in place.

Thomas Kincaid; that's a discussion not conducive to the computer, as it would be lengthy.

My DLake is Diane Lake. Wanted something quick. I was blanking out when I joined and just couldnt think of anything clever. You always do after the fact. lol.

Well, it is a pleasure to make your acquaintance Diane Lake. Yeah, I know what you mean, it's sort of like having a great comeback five minutes too late. :-)

I know that Shelby Foote was prickish. and concidered himself a fiction writer. But, his triology is still fantastic. I heard he died a few months ago - I think in September or somewhere around that time.

Yes, as strange as it may seem, that quality seems to be partly what attracted people to him.

Oh, while I'm writing to you, your art is very good.

I thank you kindly. Such words are always good to hear, and very much appreciated.

Actually it's what I hope to eventually evolve to.

What a short, bald Italian guy? :-) Frankly I think you can aspire higher. :-)

Big dreams. I begin a class next week and even though it's for oils (no pastel classes in town, and we have 2 colleges). However, the teacher knows pastels and is going to help me with that on the side. She knows there is nowhere to go for pastels. I've only been working with color for a few years and pastels for one year.

I wish you well in your class. I'm sure it'll be a blast. I'm sure we'd all love to see some of your work; do you have any online?

But, I dream of being good. lol

So do I Diane, so do I.

Have a great day and we'll talk again.

dlake

01-06-2006, 11:53 AM

My aunt and cousins live in Normandy. How cool. Mont Ste Michel is awe inspiring. So are the beaches. My daughter was born on D day. The longest day---hehehe. Actually that is one of my favorite movies. I saw it a couple weeks ago. Like the 10th time.
I have a few pics. One is called Italian doorway. My camera was really bad and took horrid pics. Got a new one yesterday and posted 2. One is called Old stuff or work or old something. Then a new one. It's a landscape and the picture I using has this bright sunset. The old stuff post has an illustration, an unfinished first landscape, and 1/2 of the picture I did of the Moulin Rouge.
Don't know where the other half is. I'm kinda frustrated cause I am really running low on colors and my order isn't in yet. got a different brand cause I'm looking for better color.
Oh, and it's nice to meet you too.
I've been off and on today because I'm trying to finish an order and can't decide which place with the shipping works out cheaper cause I'm doing open stock and whether to order one brand or another. So, I've been going back and forth.

fio44

01-06-2006, 12:03 PM

My aunt and cousins live in Normandy. How cool. Mont Ste Michel is awe inspiring.

As is the soldiers cemetery in Normandy. If you saw "Saving Private Ryan" they open up in the cemetery. It is very humbling.

So are the beaches. My daughter was born on D day. The longest day---hehehe. Actually that is one of my favorite movies. I saw it a couple weeks ago. Like the 10th time.

I always laugh at the German on the donkey in that movie as the Allies start shelling the area. Good movie though.

I have a few pics.

Where are they located?

Don't know where the other half is. I'm kinda frustrated cause I am really running low on colors and my order isn't in yet. got a different brand cause I'm looking for better color.

Which brand? I hope your order arrives soon.

dlake

01-06-2006, 12:24 PM

Have some Great American Artworks and Art Spectrums coming. What do you use. I just am blown away by your art. It's so wonderful. There are 2 landscape pastelist I like. One is Cindy House and the other is M. Katherine Hurley. The style is similar to yours. So, what do you use. What paper? I like LeCarte and colorfix. What made you decide to go into pastels? This is the first time I've talked to someone who is like an awesome artist and is a member of a pastel society. My brother, Alan, is president of Milwaukee area artists society. MARN I think. he does oils. He's a real artist.
They have this thread about music and what people like listening to. How about you? Me, I'm a blues fan. Hey, I'm close to chicago! lol.
Oh, my other posts - one is called new picture - wip, the other is some old stuff

fio44

01-08-2006, 03:15 PM

Have some Great American Artworks and Art Spectrums coming. What do you use.

Hi Diane,

I tend to use whatever will get the job done. I bounce around a lot with my pastels. The brands I use the most are Unison, Holbein, NuPastel, Rembrandt, Winsor & Newton, Sennelier, Diane Townsend and Art Spectrum.

I just am blown away by your art. It's so wonderful.

I am deeply honored to receive such praise and I thank you for your very kind words.

There are 2 landscape pastelist I like. One is Cindy House and the other is M. Katherine Hurley. The style is similar to yours.

I am not familiar with either artist, but, then again, I am not familiar with many artists being somewhat of a hermit myself. I did a search on both via Google and found their work to first rate, and very inspiring. They are both outstanding artists.

So, what do you use. What paper? I like LeCarte and colorfix.

I have been using mostly Art Spectrum and Kitty Wallis paper (toned with gouache) for my work. I previously used Canson Mi-Tientes, but find it hard returning to the paper since I started using the aforementioned. I find that the Kitty Wallis paper is more consistent in its manufacture, but I also like that Art Spectrum offers jars of color which can be applied to all types of surfaces, which I have done, including on canvas and board.

What made you decide to go into pastels?

Long story short, my aunt was taking lessons, and I was looking for something to do with my free time, and thought: "Hey! I like art, I should take lessons too!"

What made you decide to go into pastels?

This is the first time I've talked to someone who is like an awesome artist and is a member of a pastel society. My brother, Alan, is president of Milwaukee area artists society. MARN I think. he does oils. He's a real artist.

I checked out MARN on the web; they have some good resources, as does Wet Canvas. There are quite a number of artists here, with knowledge equal to or better than my own, that can offer all kinds of advice. I am only too happy to offer my own when I can make it online to participate, and again, I am very grateful for your very kind sentiments.

They have this thread about music and what people like listening to. How about you? Me, I'm a blues fan. Hey, I'm close to chicago! lol.

I like the blues. Buddy Guy, BB Kind, Mighty Sam McClain, Shamika Copeland (she can sing) and others. However, if I listen to any music at all when I'm painting, it's usually classical. I find if I listen to other types of music, I start singing along, and then lose concentration.

Well, I must run. I hope you are having a good weekend, wish you all the best. Until next, take care, and we shall talk again.

PeggyB

01-08-2006, 03:49 PM

What a fun line to follow! Diane, I've "known" Jeff via email for several years now - before he had all those initials! He has earned every single one of them through hard work and attention to detail. The CPS is Connecticut Pastel Society, PPSCC is Pastel Painters' Society of Cape Cod, and of course PSA is Pastel Society of America. All very impressive. I don't know of another person more deserving than Jeff is of all of them... and he has a great sense of humor too! LOL Just don't get him started talking about his daughter - he's one very proud Italian papa.

Peggy

dlake

01-08-2006, 05:58 PM

Peggy, I hit his site when I first started the thread and he was really fun to talk to. I found his art so wonderful. I find alot of people's art here wonderful. The energy the creativness and the absolute talent. I feel so like a beginner. But, that's good in a way. It pushes me to keep focused and work harder.
I gotta say that this thread made me order from Dakota for the first time and I love them. Love the flat rate shipping. You can figure out how much it'll cost before you order.
Now, you seem like a person who'd be fun to have a thread going.

fio44

01-09-2006, 07:27 AM

Hello Peggy!

It is always good to hear from you, my dear friend from the left coast.

What a fun line to follow! Diane, I've "known" Jeff via email for several years now - before he had all those initials!

Actually, with a name like Fioravanti, I've always had a lot of initials. :-)

Diane, as Peggy has mentioned, and I have known each other via email for a number of years. Strange as it may seem, we have never had the opportunity to meet face-to-face, yet I consider her one of my dearest friends in the art world. She's extremely talented, knowledgeable, and a wonderful source for all things pastel. I urge you to pick her brain at every opportunity.

He has earned every single one of them through hard work and attention to detail. The CPS is Connecticut Pastel Society, PPSCC is Pastel Painters' Society of Cape Cod, and of course PSA is Pastel Society of America. All very impressive. I don't know of another person more deserving than Jeff is of all of them... and he has a great sense of humor too!

Peggy, you are too kind. Peggy is a signature member in her own right, and well deserved too! As for the sense of humor I can neither confirm nor deny such an affliction. But I do find, that if you take the time to laugh, you'll find that it can create some interesting lines in your pastel paintings. :-)

LOL Just don't get him started talking about his daughter - he's one very proud Italian papa.

Hey, knowing the conversations we've had via email, I'm not the only proud parent in this thread Peggy. As for my daughter, she is the light in my world. On Saturday she obtained her blue belt in karate. Only green, brown and black remain. Once obtained, I'll sleep better at night once she starts to date. :-) Plus, I won't have to sit on the front porch cleaning my Civil War period rifle and sword when her dates arrive. I can be as pleasant as pie, and when they depart just utter the words: "BTW, if you try anything, she's a black belt in karate." :-)

Until next, take care.

dlake

01-09-2006, 10:50 AM

jeff, I am out to pick everyones brain! lol. As a self taught person who starts her first class this Wednesday, Of course I need to pick brains. I figure I can shamelessly pick as if I ever get good I can have my brain picked and I will gladly give of myself.
It must be nice to have developed such good friendships. That is the other thing I sincerely hope to do on here. make new and dear friends. It's nice to have friends and ones who have a common interest. It's so hard to do that here in beige country. hard to find people with common interests in art, books, ect. They are around but, hard to find.
I have a really brain picking question that I'm dying to know. In landscapes, I see these beautiful dreamy landscapes with perfect trees. How do you get that effect? The trees that look so good. I do fabulous skies but, just beginning landscapes I am having a problem with acheiving the dreamy looking trees and the details in the mountains. do you use pencils or colour shapers?

fio44

01-09-2006, 11:44 AM

jeff, I am out to pick everyones brain! lol.

Well Diane, be forewarned, I've played a lot of ice hockey and soccer in my life, and most of my brain is been picked clean via waywards pucks and soccer balls. :-)

As a self taught person who starts her first class this Wednesday, Of course I need to pick brains. I figure I can shamelessly pick as if I ever get good I can have my brain picked and I will gladly give of myself.

I am self-taught as well, which at times makes it hard for me to tell people exactly what I have done to get a certain result. Sort of like my grandmother trying to tell people how to make shortbread. She did it all by feel and touch, and couldn't write down the recipe because she was always doing it to taste. I do however try to give back as best I can what I have learned.

It must be nice to have developed such good friendships. That is the other thing I sincerely hope to do on here. make new and dear friends. It's nice to have friends and ones who have a common interest. It's so hard to do that here in beige country. hard to find people with common interests in art, books, ect. They are around but, hard to find.

Well, life in general can be a detterent. I live in an area that is rich with artists, but life in general, my family, my daughter, my job, often keeps me from developing friendships in the art community, making me feel rather isolated. Online can be great, but at times, you need to show and share, and a compuer screen just doesn't, to me, offer the nuances necessary for accurate feedback.

I have a really brain picking question that I'm dying to know. In landscapes, I see these beautiful dreamy landscapes with perfect trees. How do you get that effect? The trees that look so good. I do fabulous skies but, just beginning landscapes I am having a problem with acheiving the dreamy looking trees and the details in the mountains. do you use pencils or colour shapers?

Usually it's a combination of different pieces working together. The tooth of the paper, the touch of the stroke of color, the rhythm and layering of the colors, and their interaction. Think of the trees more as abstract shapes, placing your darks down, and building up to your lights. You will then be able to push the sky color into the solid abstracts shapes to show the sky peeking through. Make sure you step back often to see how the shapes, colors, etc., are interacting, and producing your more realistic tree.

I can't remember if it was in a book, or a magazine article, (Artist International?) and I'm not absolutley sure this is the artist, but I believe it was Gil Dellinger or Doug Dawson, but they did an excellent piece on making realistic trees.

BTW, I don't use pastel pencils or color shapers. Well, I might use a pastel pencil for the intial drawing, but rarely in the work itself, and never a color shaper. I use the pastels themselves to shape, or my fingers.

I hope this helps?

Anybody else have some good resources for Diane?

dlake

01-09-2006, 11:54 AM

I use my fingers alot. haven't used Colour Shapers. I thought they looked intersting. I have pencil but, rarely use them.
I think the hardest part about being self taught is self doubt. I mean, I just started landscapes so they aren't as confident as, say an Illustration like the one I posted yesterday. But, I taught myself how to do stuff like that copying A. Mucha. And, my hubby is an engineer so he helped me with doing better buildings. Now, learning landscapes, they look so beginner like. And I always doubt myself. I see people who have these art creditials and then, my older brother who is really good. With my art, I am the eternal little sister trying to be like Alan. lol. But, one thing that is good, is with all the talented people here, I see thier work and it makes me want to work harder and push more.
oh, I ordered from Dakota Pastels last week and I really like them. I like the flat rate and the selection. I really find them very personable and helpful. So, now I believe my stores online are Dakota and Dicks.

fio44

01-09-2006, 12:16 PM

I use my fingers alot.

Well, you'll reduce that if you use a lot of Art Spectrum and Kitty Wallis. The grit will do a number on your fingers, but more importantly, these papers are very conducive to using the pastels only to do your blending. I'm not saying you'll completely stop, but it will be reduced dramatically. I still use my fingers on occasion, but it is so rare these days when using those papers.

I think the hardest part about being self taught is self doubt.

We all have self-doubt, so don't worry about that. Just take it as it comes, and you'll be fine.

Now, learning landscapes, they look so beginner like. And I always doubt myself.

Do you have any books for a beginner pastel artist? There's several excellent publications, including a recent book by Anne Heywood who is a wonderful artist and landscape painter. You might want to get a copy if you don't already own one. I find books help a great deal, even if only for a single passage.

I see people who have these art creditials and then, my older brother who is really good. With my art, I am the eternal little sister trying to be like Alan. lol.

Well, I offer this word of caution, don't be too impressed with credentials. Remember, they put their clothese on just like you.

But, one thing that is good, is with all the talented people here, I see thier work and it makes me want to work harder and push more.

I'm certain you will find much success and happiness with your art, and I wish you well. Feel free to drop me a line anytime, and if I can be of help, I certainly will offer my thoughts, and if I can not b of help, I hope I can point you in a direction that will get you the answers you need and desire.

Have a great day, and Happy Painting!

dlake

01-09-2006, 12:38 PM

I'll check into the book. I was thinking of getting richard mcdaniels but, this may be what I'm looking for. I take a subject at a time. Next will probably be animals or working on tightening up on my florals.
don't think I won't take you up on your offer. Though I am going to have an excellent teacher in my class I am always having my brain knocking stuff around.
lol

Bringer

01-09-2006, 07:14 PM

Hi Diane,

About trees. I can't help you much but don't forget that to depict a tree with realism one has to think about it's structure (like our anatomy).
One cannot paint a correct figure without a correct anatomy.
Examin carefully the main shappes of the tree. Work those. Then work from there.
I hope this helps because if not, this is my policy : satisfied customer or your money lost :-) :-)

Regards,

José

fio44

01-10-2006, 08:05 AM

I'll check into the book. I was thinking of getting richard mcdaniels but, this may be what I'm looking for. I take a subject at a time.

The McDaniel book is excellent too. If you have a good library or bookstore nearby, see what they have to offer too before making a final purchase. I suggested Anne's book because it is/was created more for the beginner and it explains things in an easy to understand format.

I think you will do well, and we'll all be looking forward to viewing your work. Best of luck and Happy Painting!

dlake

01-10-2006, 02:01 PM

fio44

01-11-2006, 07:18 AM

I have 2 excellent bookstores plus Amazon!! I decided to go back to my comfort zone for a little while and do some village scenes in france. Being 1/2 french I really relate to french things and doing scenes from France is my fun art. And I think I'm also going to do some sketches from my Alphonse Mucha book. That always gets me on track.

Hey Diane,

Sometimes when we're stuck, going back that which we are familiar can be of help. I'm glad you're back on track and wish you all the best as you move forward with you art. Have a good one and we'll talk again.

HarvestMoon

01-11-2006, 11:42 AM

Diane- the McDaniel book is indeed terrific- I was reading it over Christmas, and looked up his website- I ordered his pastel set and the rest of his books even- and sent a quick note to him saying how wonderful his work was- and his reply indicated that even HE was in a period of some self-doubt, which he said was rare for him. I have a lot more self-doubt than most I suspect, but it is nice to know that even the best have it too...and nice to know that a quick note can perhaps provide a needed boost to someone about their confidence. When I see work on the level of Jeff Fioravanti's, I have to admit I think- how can I ever possibly be half as good? Well, I have to be honest and admit I probably never will be, but as long as I have fun, I can probably provide motivation to others who think- wow- I can do much better than her- and they are encouraged to post their pastels or watercolors! So I guess no matter your age and level of talent, everyone can be some sort of inspiration to someone!
Linda

fio44

01-11-2006, 12:35 PM

I have a lot more self-doubt than most I suspect, but it is nice to know that even the best have it too...and nice to know that a quick note can perhaps provide a needed boost to someone about their confidence.

Hi Linda & Diane,

We all experience self-doubt, it's just life. I think it is especially true for artists since so much of our inner soul is laid out for all to see in line and color, that it can be very traumatic at times and raise doubts in even the most seasoned professional. Sure, some may not appear as such, and perhaps they're just good at putting a good face, but I have to believe that they, like us all, endure such periods. So, take heart, you are not alone, especially on this community.

When I see work on the level of Jeff Fioravanti's, I have to admit I think- how can I ever possibly be half as good?

Linda, I am indeed flattered, but am sad to hear of your thoughts in comparing my work to your own. I do not wish for you to experience such when viewing my work. If it inspires you, wonderful, but I never intended for my work to be something upon which to be measured, especially as it relates to your own work and experiences as an artist. I am sorry to elicit such a response; it makes me feel as if I have in some manner defeated you as an artist. I can assure, I am nothing special, and certainly not one against whom you should judge your own current place in the art community.

Well, I have to be honest and admit I probably never will be, but as long as I have fun, I can probably provide motivation to others who think- wow- I can do much better than her- and they are encouraged to post their pastels or watercolors! So I guess no matter your age and level of talent, everyone can be some sort of inspiration to someone!
Linda

That's the spirit!! We can all learn from each other, which makes a forum such as this such a wonderful resource. It's not being better than somebody else, it's learning and doing the best we can, refining our own skills, and most of all having fun. Well said Linda!!!!

HarvestMoon

01-11-2006, 12:54 PM

jmp

01-11-2006, 01:01 PM

who is FAS????? I buy at pearl in philadelphia, problem is, its a whole day affair- the place is so huge I can't get out of there- online and catalog, i like jerrys artarama- best price, no problems so far

scall0way

01-11-2006, 01:19 PM

What fun it has been reading this thread again. I see I posted to it way back in July when I had only been pasteling for about four months. Now I have a whole six more months under my belt! LOL

Diane, have you started your art classes? I started out with a beginning drawing class last spring at a local adult school, and then started lessons at the local art museum in the summer, and again in the fall, and this spring I'm taking *two* art classes there! None of them are specifically pastel classes. The only pastel class the museum offers (and it is a year-long class) is offered during the daytime when I'm at work - so no good for me. And I don't know of any pastel societies in my area or anything like that.

But I certainly can see a big improvement in my own work when I compare stuff I'm doing now with stuff I was doing last March/April when I first began my art journey journey.

And speaking of the various art stores, I got a gift certificate to Jerrys for Christmas and still have to figure out what to spend it on. :)

Jeff, your work is awesome, just gorgeous. I have a real soft spot for boats, and water scenes.

dlake

01-11-2006, 01:23 PM

Hey Debbie. Class starts at 6:30 tonite. Yea!!!!!!!!!!! Am really looking forward to it. One thing I hope to get is more discipline and tighten up my work and stay focused on the prize. No pastel classes in town but, this teacher is versed in pastels and is going to help me in her painting class. So nice of her.

HarvestMoon

01-11-2006, 03:31 PM

FAS is Fine Art Store- here they are on the net:

http://www.fineartstore.com/

dlake

01-11-2006, 06:21 PM

linda, I think I have gotten past the doubt part. I have gone to my safe place in art and am doing European village scenes. I think the landscapes kinda freaked me out. I thank you for your words of encouragement. Also, seeing the wonderful art and mine not so good lately also bummed me. However, class starts tonite and I'll get back on track and do better work. Sometimes my stuff slips into the realm of cartoonish. lol. Like you, it's the fun and creativity but, frustrating when you go backwards and not forward. Oh, well, it's temporary and I'll see how class goes. that'll perk me up. Being cooped up in winter is not conductive to creativity and inspiration. lol.
diane

fio44

01-12-2006, 07:11 AM

Jeff- did not mean your work bummed me out really - it is exceptional, and indeed inspiring- just that when I am in a super doubting mood, and see that- I think- wow.... but you are so right- comparing ourselves to others is just plain self-defeating... I tell that to my kids and forget to tell it to myself!
Linda

Hey Linda,

I experience the same feelings of doubt when viewing others work, just about every month when I get anoter copy of the number of art magazines to which I have a subscription. If I really want to be humbled and experience self doubt, then I visit an art museum. :-) I can't let it get me too down though, and must plug along.

I hear ya' on the telling others, (kids especially) to not let it get you down and then not following your own advice. I am full of advice but never seem to implement that advice into my own action plan. :-)

Have a great day Linda, and we'll talk again.

fio44

01-12-2006, 07:27 AM

And I don't know of any pastel societies in my area or anything like that.

Hi Debbie,

In reading your blog, am I correct in that you live in New Jersey? What part? Perhaps Peggy Braeutigam, a member here at Wet Canvas can help you in finding a pastel society nearby? She is associated with the International Association of Pastel Societies, and through her knowledge could quickly assess what might be close by.

On another thought, if you follow this link http://www.artshow.com/apow/woolwich/bio.html madlyn might be of some help as well. She is an outstanding pastel artist who lives in Long Branch, NJ.

You might want to also contact Millie Gliniecki who is an instructor in Moorestown, NJ. though she lives inTunkhannock, PA Ph. 570-836-1537 http://www.milliegliniecki.com/

But I certainly can see a big improvement in my own work when I compare stuff I'm doing now with stuff I was doing last March/April when I first began my art journey journey.

Keep at it! I saw some lovely elements in your work on your blog, especially in your still lifes.

Jeff, your work is awesome, just gorgeous. I have a real soft spot for boats, and water scenes.

You are too kind, and I thank you sincerely for such a nice sentiment.

I wish you all the best in your life and artistic pursuits. Until next, take care.

scall0way

01-12-2006, 12:08 PM

Jeff, that you so much for the tips and pointers, and the encouragement as well. :)

dlake

01-12-2006, 12:35 PM

Debbie, you don't need help. You should be giving them. Your work is awesome.
diane

fio44

01-13-2006, 07:25 AM

Jeff, that you so much for the tips and pointers, and the encouragement as well. :)

Hi Debbie,

Glad I could be of some assistance. Have a great day and Happy Painting!

HarvestMoon

01-21-2006, 03:22 PM

FAS could have had a LOT more of my money but sent me a nastygram when I had to cancel an order that was taking a long time..... but dickblicks has extremely super customer support- and I see they are pulling slightly ahead of Dakota's... both great places... if Jerry's would come down on their shipping they might pull out more though....(don't know how the other places offer it so cheap- they really must lose money on it- between buying boxes, packing material, paying shipper)....

Kristrotter

01-21-2006, 05:04 PM

I voted Dickblick because of their great prices and reliability. Dakota is second on my list because pastels is what they are all about.

PeggyB

01-21-2006, 05:09 PM

I placed an order with Dick Blick for the oil pastel class I'll be teaching kids the end of this month as well as a few things for myself, and was very pleasently surprised to learn that since my order was over $200 there was no shipping fee! Now there's service!!!

In a slightly different vein, but still under "shipping": I order beads on line from Fire Mountain Beads & Gems, and just read in their latest catalogue that they have gone to the trouble of weighing all 57,000 of their different products and packing materials, and entering the weight into their computers so that when you order from them they can tell you the actual cost of shipping, and they charge "real cost". They also have negociated with Fed Ex and UPS for discounted fees (USPS won't negociate that with anyone) and pass that savings on to the customers. I find that amazing! Wouldn't it be grand if all internet and catalogue merchandise vendors did that?

Peggy

dlake

01-21-2006, 07:49 PM

I vote with Kristie. Love Dick Blick and the service and quick delivery. Love the choices and flat fee of Dakota. I agree with Linda in Jerry's. Great prices and selection but, man, the shipping cost hurts. Rather pay a little more and get the flat fee of Dakota where you know already what you're gonna pay before you order.
Peggy, I'm so glad you didn't have to pay any shipping. That is sweet.
Diane

dlake

01-29-2006, 11:17 AM

There is an online store I do go to for the cheap prices:
ASW. Art supply warehouse express.
I believe all the stores have good and bad. Price vs shipping vs customer service. I mostly will price compare and where I find it cheapest all together.
diane

artc

01-29-2006, 11:45 AM

I agree with Diane.....although I've never ordered pastels....I have ordered oil paints,brushes, Pintura canvas boards, Fredrix stretched canvas etc. from ASW art supply...I have received the orders usually within 3 or 4 days....everything was very well packed....everything was of the highest quality.......no damage whatsoever.
Prices appear to be very resonable.....search for aswexpress on the web and give them a try. They still have GA pastel sets on sale....Art

HarveyDunn

06-11-2006, 10:22 AM

Dakota, for three reasons:
1) Whenever possible I always support an independent operator over a big corporation (you'll never see me in a Starbucks!)
2) I like the fact that they are thinking all the time about pastels - I figure that means more interesting products for us in the future. I've just bought one of their Kool Bind sketch books and I love it.
3) Their customer service is very, very good.

Tressa

07-26-2006, 07:44 PM

I have to say that Dick's is in the top for me, although I do order "medium specific" items from Dakota...Also, I really enjoyed ordering my first TL pastels from the big guy himself!!! Great service Terry!!! :)
My husband ordered my Full Monty from Jerry's and as it was a drop ship directly from GA, we had a bit of a problem..first the shipping was outrageous, over $100.00!!!, then the set arrived missing about 30 sticks, with a nice note saying they would send as soon as made..after 3 months of waiting, I contacted Jerry's and they were no help at all, just advised me to deal directly with mfg...I called them, and they were very nice, but I must say, a bit ditzy...kept telling me they were coming soon, and then not,, and then yes they will be shipped on Monday, and two weeks later, still nothing...sigh...I FINALLY received the rest of my pastels about a week ago, and this was an order placed in FEBRUARY!!!! I realize it takes some time to make handmade pastels, but geesh...but my point is, after receiving their money, Jerrry's did not want to help me resolve the issue of not getting my full order...

redgreen

07-28-2006, 12:17 PM

Order from Canada?

Hi,
I've preferred oil pastels, next to oil paints, for many years. Trouble is they don't seem to last that long and in Canada the prices for good ones, Holbein, Sennelier, are massive!
Anyone know of a good way to order online from Canada?
Suggestions appreciated!
Thanks

KJSCL

07-28-2006, 06:22 PM

I order all my soft pastels from Dakota (www.dakotapastels.com). Even with the exchange and shipping they still cost less (especially if they are on sale). Just make sure you have a decent sized order. The selection is also far superior than any Canadian online or physical store. Not sure where you are in BC, but they are in Mt Vernon, Washington - about a 1 hour drive from the border.

Order from Canada?

Hi,
I've preferred oil pastels, next to oil paints, for many years. Trouble is they don't seem to last that long and in Canada the prices for good ones, Holbein, Sennelier, are massive!
Anyone know of a good way to order online from Canada?
Suggestions appreciated!
Thanks

redgreen

07-28-2006, 07:32 PM

They aren't all that far but I live on the Island so it would make more sense to order at the moment. Looks like they have a great supply.
With our stronger dollar it makes ordering a lot more appealing.
Thanks for the info. Will certainly check them out.

fio44

07-29-2006, 05:39 PM

Good Day All,

I just had a real bad experience with ASW Express.

I ordered some art spectrum paper (10 sheets) via their online catalog, which, when ordered all aspects of the order indicated the item was "in stock" My order arrived on 07/28/06, and instead of art spectrum paper, I received 5 sheets of La Carte paper, in a color not even close to the art spectrum paper I ordered. With the La Carte paper I rec'd an invoice that read " the following items replacements at no charge"

A. what makes them think I wanted a replacement? I was never asked? Their policy doesn't say they will send replacements when an ordered item is out of stock. (again, their online catalog said the art spectrum was in stock)

B. what makes them think that if I wanted a replacement, that I wanted La Carte paper? I don't use La Carte paper. It just doesn't serve my needs or give me the finished work I am seeking.

C. I rec'd a second invoice that would indicate that I was still being charged for the art spectrum paper even though it was not received or delivered. no notation of backorder was on the invoice either.

D. I immediately called their customer service line and was unable to reach a person, instead being asked to leave a message and that a rep would call me shortly. No call was ever received.

ASW boasts that they offer amazing customer service. I guess the amazing part is when you actually are able get to customer service.

I believe that ASW was bought out by Jerry's not long ago, and since that time, they have had problems, at least from this artist's experience. I will think long and hard before I order from either again, and I can guarantee they will not be my first choice.

Paula Ford

11-09-2006, 12:31 PM

On November 7th at 6:00 a.m. I placed an order with ASW Express for some Wallis paper (on sale) and a new pencil sharpener. The order was about $100. The shipping on the order was $7.50, which is very, very reasonable!!

The order arrived today before noon. I'm impressed!!

To tell you all the truth, I was nervous ordering from them because of the reviews here, but must say, my 1st experience with them has been wonderful.

Paula

chewie

11-09-2006, 01:58 PM

count yourself lucky paula! i could clog up this thread with the horror stories of ASW!! when i get their sale catalog, and want something, i see if blick's has it, as they will price match. i've tried ASW *several* times, thinking 'this time' will be different/better. hahahahah! no way! each time was just another headache. i also had the 'we'll call you' run around, broken easels, lost items, $200 of charges but no supplies....on and on... no, blicks, dakota, or nuthin!

HarvestMoon

11-13-2006, 04:09 PM

wow- I am surprised to see this surface- if I could vote again, I would vote for dick blick for many reasons......which I think I did in the first place anyway LOL

DebbieGS

11-15-2006, 09:46 AM

I voted for dick blick...I have ordered a lot of supplies from them, but since I started working in pastels, I order a lot from Dakota now.

skywatcher

11-19-2006, 11:44 AM

Being in the UK, I couldnt vote on your poll, because you didnt include Jacksons, of London. I buy almost everything from them; my local artshops just don't and can't cater for anyone other than the "majority". Jacksons have got a good catalogue of stuff and in five years of my using them, they've only lost my order once.

bchlvr

05-15-2007, 07:25 PM

I voted for Dick Blick. They seem to ship must faster than the others. Whenever I place an order I receive it within 3 days usuallly. They also seem to have a good selection of things and usually have items I want in stock.

For real life shopping I shop Jerry's...one is nearby and they have a pretty good selection.

pastelist

05-19-2007, 09:51 AM

I have been buying fro Cheap Joe's for years. Their staff if pleasant and their prices are reasonable.

bose

06-13-2007, 05:01 AM

Hi Wheres, The UK Stores, in this VOTE LOL.
Mine is Jacksons Art Store in SLATER STREET LIVERPOOL UK, Rose and Phil are the most helpfull people you could want to find in a Art Shop, and they know there stuff.
Followed by KEN BROMLEYS on The Internet.
Cheers.
Tony.

eagle owl

06-18-2007, 02:41 PM

Hi Tony

I buy nearly all my supplies online and have used Jacksons with no problem. Heaton Cooper are excellent as are SAA.

Carol

soap

06-22-2007, 04:07 AM

Yep - where are the shops in the rest of the world??
I usually go for Great Art here in the UK. They have everything and its fun to browse through their catalogue. Am like kid in a (paper) candy store then! If only we had a really big arty candy store somewhere!
Jacksons is good too, SAA good as postage is free for members.
I find Heaton Cooper too expensive!
I do ALL on the internet or catalogue shopping. I know of no decent real shop around here.

mrking

06-28-2007, 07:41 PM

voted for dickblick as I just ordered a few things from them. I have to say customer service is very good. They let me ship on my FedEx account instead of theirs, allowed for the online discount coupon/promotion even after I placed my order.

So far I am very satisfied. I'll post again after I actually receive the items.

Mike

Eggy

07-21-2007, 08:00 AM

I buy nearly all my art material direct from the manufacturers including the foreign brands (Sennelier from France, Caran d'Ache from Geneva etc). The reason ? The main one is: the materials are certainly kept in ideal conditions and are therefore fresh. Shops cannot keep a constant temperature or humidity, greasy or dirty hands can mar pastels and brushes are constantly touched and abused by those who like to test" them on inappropriate surfaces.

It still does not stop me from going to my local art shops to browse and buy odds and ends.

Fussy ? I am.

Kind regards,
Eggy

harvey concepts

08-14-2007, 03:42 PM

I have purchased from Jerry's (very expensive shipping and not very fast - though their prices are great), DickBlick - okay - have had some trouble with broken pastels - but they took money off order - fast shipping, Dakota pastels - great. Dakota just lists the colors of pastels - so I often look at other sites for pictures - but they have more pastels than dickblick. Fine Art Store - I thought they were excellent. Their shipping I believe is $9.95 and I purchased a complete set of pastels and they actually added 39 more at no cost because I think they were new colors - not bad!

wildart129

08-14-2007, 04:12 PM

Howard Metzenberg

09-30-2007, 05:15 AM

If you want good prices go to EBay and see if an item you're looking for is listed. They have some pretty good soft pastel sets that are usually more inexpensive then what you would give for them at an online art store. I got a set of brand new 48 Gioconda Soft Pastel Pencils for under $20.00 they were in perfect condition, there $79.99 everywhere else I looked. I've also found some good prices for some Unison Pastels which I've heard are the best pastels that are made, I don't use soft pastels but I thought maybe someone would be interested. There are also some excellent Rembrandt Soft Pastel Sets on ebay as well.:)

Today, as I look at E-Bay, 47 different sets of Rembrandt Pastels are being offered, all small ones with 15, 30, 45, or 60 pastels. They are all being offered at prices well below our cost at Dick Blick. Several of these "sellers" are using our copyrighted images. Why are only these sizes being offered, and no others.

First let me ask, would you imagine that so many sets of roughly the same size, all in the newest packaging, would appear on E-Bay all at the same time because somebody's uncle gave them a set that they don't really want? Or did they all come from Aunt Edna's estate sale? (These are in the newest packaging, and the packaging changes every few years.)

Rembrandt Pastels are distributed by Canson of America, a subsidiary of the Dutch company Royal Talens. Royal Talens is a manufacturer and distributor of many different art supply products, including the Van Gogh, Amsterdam, and Rembrandt lines of paints, as well as Arches and Canson papers. I can guarantee you that Canson of America does not unload a bunch of one of its flagship products through E-Bay. I'll ask their manufacturer's rep about it next time I see him.

E-Bay allows you to look at the seller's history and see what they offer. Many sellers are unwitting (or not so unwitting) participants in large scale fencing operations. Why do so many mom-and-pop type sellers have access to the latest cameras, power tools, consumer electronics, women's accessories, and sometimes even art supplies?

So called "wholesalers" or "drop-shippers" recruit individual E-Bay sellers to offer their products. The names and locations of these drop shippers are generally unspecified, and change constantly. The E-Bay sellers themselves never handle the merchandise.

Google the keyword "dropshippers" and you will find a welter of websites, blogs, and discussion forums where sellers and buyers meet, or where sellers offer their wares. The strange thing is that the websites and forums dedicated to drop shipping constantly change. Do the same thing a year from now and you will find a completely different batch of dropshipping websites, with new names and identities.

If you don't mind having some "hot" pastels, then go buy some. You are three to four levels downstream from somebody who perhaps stole a shipping palette off the back of a truck, or diverted a shipment from a warehouse. It may have been an inside job by an employee somewhere. Chances are, it will take a few months for this supply to work its way through these channels.

In a few months, some other art supply product will be offered all over E-Bay. Of course, it is ultimately the consumer who buys through legitimate channels that ends up paying for this.

What you'll never find is the off-brand, the hard to find brand, the brand that nobody searches for.

I'm opinionated, obviously. This hurts us, but it really hurts the honest consumer.

Howard Metzenberg
Blick Art Materials
Highland Park, IL

HarvestMoon

09-30-2007, 04:47 PM

I have to agree with Howard from Dickblick's - completely and fully!! Dickblick's in particular, has been an enormous blessing to me- offering a huge selection, fantastic customer support, quality merchandise- much of it I only used to find if I traveled to Europe- and a very big thing- affordable SHIPPING....all available to me in my very small town....it is fantastic. And companies like this cannot stay in business forever, operating with what has to be a slim profit margin- and they must have to buy in quantity to get these prices- which means keeping the items IN STOCK- all the time- ready to ship.... I have tried other online art stores that in fact- did not even have the merchandise on HAND so it was WEEKS before they shipped- but hey, I perhaps saved $2. for waiting an extra 4 weeks....

We ALL benefit from Wet Canvas- and DickBlick sponsors the site.... most of us don't pay one cent for the membership (but you can if you want to)....so my FIRST choice in shopping is to check Dickblicks.... I think we owe it to the wetcanvas sponsors to support them when possible- and they are terrific.....

The E-bay idea of 'winning' - instead of admitting you are 'buying' has always been a mystery to me....and while I rarely even look there, when I have, I have seen stolen pics, etc. - I know because I look at the websites they take them from! I have had an online store before, and know this is the case. I also know, from the rare purchases I have made on ebay that except for giving negative feedback (which can burn you too), if you get something broken, etc. you are generally - out of luck....

PS- I also love to just LOOK at the beautiful art supplies at the online companies.... that in itself is really fun, esp. to those of us who are fairly isolated- I enjoy looking at the site- it is very informative for one thing!

nvcricket

10-15-2007, 12:36 AM

Linda, I do like looking at EBAY, but I always wonder about that person who sells Terry Ludwig Pastels. They are always from Denver. If I were Terry, I'd be a bit suspicious. I have promised myself, no matter how good the bargain on ebay, when I get enough to buy a set, I will buy them from Terry directly or through one of his retailers. I also hesitate buying from EBAY, as pastels are very fragile, and they need to be packed with care. If someone is stealing from Mr Ludwig, and profiting from the resale of the theft, and if this continues....profits may not be realized and product selection could suffer, or worse.
just my 2 cents.

You also make a great point in ordering our supplies from Dick Blick, if we can't afford to pay for membership to this site, at least we could patronize the sponser! I plan to make future purchases through them. You sold me!

Carol

HarvestMoon

10-15-2007, 04:02 PM

Carol- that is indeed worrysome about Terri Ludwig pastels on ebay.... I have some myself- Sooz talked me into them- and they are HEAVEN... in fact, I don't use them that much because I am saving them for when I am good enough to be worthy of them.... I bought them directly from Terri's site....he has a box of turquoises... my weakness- I could do with only 2 colors- purple and turquoise LOL... well, perhaps some yellow or gold tossed in....

And I see that Cheap Joe's is now a wetcanvas sponsor as well.....good thing, as they just had to up their hard-drive space from what I read....I can't imagine how much room it takes to store this amount of photos and such!!!

iliopus

10-19-2007, 08:46 AM

There's not much difference in price from Blick to Jerry's. Blick got my vote. Why? They keep records and are helpful. I wasn't keeping good records so I asked both companies if they could provide a list of things I had bought. Taxes, ya know. Blick sent me a complete list of everything. I never heard from Jerry's. Blick has my back!
Dakota has very nice things and is a wonderland for the pastel artist, but I just can't get past the prices.

HarvestMoon

10-19-2007, 11:57 AM

Hi Iliopus- blick gets my vote because of the shipping costs on expensive items or orders.....

but I have been able to get my history of purchases from Jerry's before on their website- for orders placed through their website- they have a option on the left menu called 'MY ACCOUNT'- you have to LOG IN.... then there is an option for 'ORDER HISTORY'....

spunkyfluff

11-11-2007, 12:07 AM

Hi Carol, Linda, everyone...

I, Kristen Ludwig Bangs, am the mysterious seller of Terry Ludwig Pastels on eBay. Many of you know that I am Terry Ludwig's daughter and sales/marketing director for the company (unbelievably fun job, btw!)

Thank you so much for your concern about our profit margin, etc. We're pretty protective of that as well! While our prices on eBay are pretty terrific, we do not sell any standard set for more than 20% off our retail price. In fact, we've had some sets bid up HIGHER than their published retail price! We've agreed with our retail partners that we would never discount prices more than 20%, and they have agreed the same to us.

We (Terry Ludwig Pastels) sell our pastels on eBay for the following reasons:

INTRODUCE MORE ARTISTS TO OUR SOFT PASTELS
Many cost-conscious artists (and which artists are not?) shop for supplies on eBay and run across our pastels in their search results. Some haven't heard of Terry Ludwig Pastels or have heard but have not used our pastels. Selling on eBay is effective, inexpensive marketing to the "uninitiated." These first-time buyers are added to our customer database and often become loyal customers. Many go on to buy from any of our partners, such as Dakota or Fine Art Store, or any of the great independent stores that carry our pastels.

ELIMINATE EXCESS INVENTORY OF 'FACTORY SECONDS'
Hey, we make mistakes sometimes. Really beautiful mistakes. When a batch of pastels does not match the original color (or "control color"), but is otherwise beautiful, we call it and "assorted" color. These colors are assembled in special, eBay-only sets.

COLLEGE FUND FOR TERRY’S GRANDSON
Terry contributes the profit from our eBay sales to my son’s college fund. Terry is just as generous as you have heard, and he’s taking care of his family with these sales.

Thank you again for your concern. I swear, I’m legitimate! Call me any Monday, Wednesday or Friday at our workshop: 1.888.795.1232.

And thank you to everyone who sent me their well-wishes over the summer. You are an amazing group of people, and I’m extremely proud to be associated with you.

Kristen Ludwig Bangs
Terry Ludwig Pastels
www.terryludwig.com
(new website coming in late November!!!)

CJMonty

11-12-2007, 02:23 AM

I chose Dakota Pastels as they are so prompt with answering e-mails and getting orders out to you.

Here in Australia I also deal quite a bit with www.theartshop.com.au (http://www.theartshop.com.au) they too are very prompt and everything gets to you in one piece. His postal charges are great too as he only charges $8.95 no matter how big the parcel or where in Australia you are. His prices would have to be the BEST in Australia.

Carolynn :clap:

ElsieH

12-04-2007, 10:09 AM

In general my first choice is Cheap Joes on anything I can get from them.
But, I voted from Dakota as I really like their service and the devotion to pastels.
I wish Cheap Joe would carry Schmicke pastels!
Also, I get good service from Dick Blick any time I've ordered from them.

WC Lee

12-04-2007, 06:03 PM

I voted for fine art store only because I can get my stuff in a day or two :D but I also order from Dick Blick and Dakota too. It's really hard to really say which I really prefer and it depends on what I am ordering and how much.

Howard Metzenberg

12-04-2007, 08:04 PM

I, Kristen Ludwig Bangs, am the mysterious seller of Terry Ludwig Pastels on eBay. Many of you know that I am Terry Ludwig's daughter and sales/marketing director for the company (unbelievably fun job, btw!)

Hi Kristen!

Thank you for identifying yourself here! I know that we (Blick Art Materials) are not carrying Terry Ludwig Pastels yet. It's not my decision either. If you want to have great merchandisers you have to stay out of their hair and let them make their own decisions. So I give Ruth and Nancy (you know them, I'm sure) feedback and suggestions only.

When I referred to the E-Bay theft problem above, I was not alluding to Terry Ludwig Pastels in any way. I was referring to those of a much larger European competitor of yours. This last summer, the market was flooded with boxes of 30 of their pastels, which are one of the leading brands. I bought several to see where they were coming from. My best guess is, somebody stole a shipping palette from the back of a truck.

Unfortunately, the E-Bay theft problem is real. There have been E-Bay sellers selling "lots" of paint tubes that are almost certainly shoplifted. They don't even bother to list what is in the lot, except to say "lot of 35 tubes, with 7 cadmiums and cobalts". Since pastels are more of a niche product, and attract an older, less E-Bay oriented customer, we haven't seen as much activity in pastels.

In the last few months, E-Bay itself appears to have cleaned up this problem a lot. I don't know what was going on behind the scenes. I did make some of our large suppliers aware of the problem, and at least one of them got very active on E-Bay trying to stop the piracy of their products.

Although i don't tell our merchandisers what products we should carry at Blick, here is a bit of feedback I do give them. If one of our suppliers (or potential suppliers) is offering a product in such a way that it sells for less through the E-Bay channel than we can affordably and profitably offer and promote it ourselves, then we should not carry it. Period!

You can understand the problem we would have if we were spending money on promoting and selling a product, only to have sellers on E-Bay freeload on our efforts to make the product visible, to promote it to our own customers. We have a choice of which small-brand pastels to carry, and we have to focus on those for which we can recover expenses such as the cost of the photography we do, the creation of accurate color charts, and so forth. Every time I log into E-Bay I find sellers there pirating our photographs, promotional copy, and so forth.

Now you may wonder what to do with those "seconds" that you sell. We have an incredibly active red tag clearance program on our site that is ideal for selling such seconds, and so do several of our competitors.

I realize that small manufacturers always have a choice between direct marketing and selling through resellers (stores, catalog, and websites). I'm really your advocate on this, as I'd love to see us offering a quality product like yours on our website, and I sincerely believe that it would be the best decision in the long run for the Ludwig grandchildren's college fund.

I know this is an open forum (which some of our competitors and suppliers read too, at least the smart ones). The old cliche says, you can't have your cake and eat it too. In marketing, this means, you can't have both the benefits of selling through resellers (visibility and volume) and the high margins of direct sales. You have to choose one or the other.

Selling through E-Bay may pick up a few new customers, but they are not the kind of customers that help you build a brand name for yourself. They are customers that want the cheapest pastel now, and they'll leave you for another brand in a second. Somebody else will always be there (on E-Bay) offering a cheaper pastel. To build a brand and a reputation that earns you higher margins, you need either a great direct marketing program or top-flight resellers. Resellers will not invest in you if you sell through E-Bay.

Makes you feel like a 10th grade girl at a high school dance, doesn't it? Which boy should I dance with? All those 12th grade boys staring at me. What are they talking about?

Howard Metzenberg
Blick Art Materials
Highland Park, IL

nvcricket

12-04-2007, 11:58 PM

Hi Kristen aka Spunkyfluff-(must be a nickname only a dad can bestow?),

First off-we are so grateful our prayers were answered, everyone here was tremendously concerned.

2.-I like the new website- all of those new sets of Terry Ludwigs! It's nice to see Terry's art, the master at work. What better way to promote what you can achieve with an excellent set of pastels!

3.-My dream job would be to work in a pastel factory even as a lowly pastel shaper!:lol: What are the qualifications?

4.- You are going to have to sell one heck of a lot of pastels off EBAY to be able to afford to send your son to college! Tuition goes up every year!

5.-You have set my mind at ease. I was hoping Terry didn't have someone working for him selling his pastels out of EBAY. So at some point... when I am able to scrape a few bucks together I would love to be able to win a bid for some of those wonderful seconds, or a turquoise set, or the darks....guilt free!

It's nice to meet the real Spunkyfluff!:lol:

Regards,

Carol

rain24

12-05-2007, 12:46 AM

Blick's is my online store of choice. They're fast and they package everything really well. I love that shipping is free on my large orders. If Blick's has it, I get it from them. In a pinch I even run to their retail stores which is usually very well stocked.

Now I'd like to see Blick's get more pastel brands in the near future...then I'll be really really happy (would love to see Girault, Mount Vision and Terry Ludwigs)! :D.

Oh yeah, and I'm waiting on a really beautiful set of Terry's pastels from spunkyfluff. I got my verification that this was legitimate before I bought the set, so woohoo!!!

Howard, thanks for all the info on what's going on with the cheap supplies on Ebay. It helps us all make intelligent choices as to where we purchase our supplies.

Shari

12-05-2007, 11:08 AM

I just got an email yesterday about a huge sale at Terry Ludwig, so go to the website and see what's on sale!!! I asked Terry at IAPS this Spring about the Ebay sales, and he told me it was Kristen and BTW, Kristen, I am happy to hear you are well again. We were all very concerned!

I have to say that Blick is my favorite place to shop for art supplies because of excellent customer service, fast shipping and competetive pricing. I also use Dakota if I can't find what I want at Blick. Jerry's may be a good discount, but the shipping costs are atrocious - with Jerry's the more you buy the higher the shipping and that is just wrong!!! Most other places give you free shipping over $200 so I often get an order together with a couple friends and save on the shipping. Also, if you live on the west coast, Jerry's takes forever to ship. So it's Blick and Dakota for me!!! I also hope that Blick gets Girault and Ludwigs.

HarvestMoon

01-28-2008, 05:37 PM

Shari- gotta agree with you all the way on this one.... EXCEPT... that Dick Blick does NOT carry much of the Great American Artworks Pastels line, and to me they really ARE the best on the planet....... plus they (dick blick) have gotten into the habit of sticking somthing in a big box with a couple of those big air pillows- and that is IT for packing.... Jerry's does pack really very well... they can afford to since they charge for it....as a prior web-merchant (rocks and minerals in my case) I can say that GOOD packaging is NOT cheap...

I support Blick's mainly because they support this website... sure wish Jerrys would- my local Jerry's store is run by really really nice folks (love that magenta hair)

Paula Ford

01-28-2008, 05:45 PM

I've been ordering from ASW lately and have to say WOW! When I order on a Monday, that order reaches my door on Thursday. Everytime it's perfect too.

Paula

HarvestMoon

01-28-2008, 05:49 PM

Paula- then get ASW to sponsor WetCanvas! So we don't have to !!! (ie more money to spend on pastels....)

Paula Ford

01-31-2008, 07:27 PM

Once again ASW is fantastic!! I ordered a bunch of stuff Monday morning and it is here, packaged perfectly!

Paula

PeggyB

01-31-2008, 07:48 PM

Paula- then get ASW to sponsor WetCanvas! So we don't have to !!! (ie more money to spend on pastels....)

Linda have you thought about the fact that advertising also is an expense for the vendors??? and that if they spend their money on advertising they can't lower any of the other expenses? Therefore, by spending their money here on WC (for instance), perhaps we are paying more for their products? All of the vendors and merchants that anyone has mentioned in this thread already have either a good or not so good reputation with pastel artists. We each have our favorites and not so favorites. I know from talking to more than one of these folks that they haven't seen that advertising here has brought them any more - or less - business so they prefer to use their advertising dollars where it brings the best results. Business decisions are a very individual choice. The smaller operators don't have the capital that the larger ones do - obviously. Just as we make our decision on where to purchase our favorite brand of pastel is usually based upon best price and service, so too do the merchants. I can't blame anyone for that choice.

Peggy

Merriel

02-15-2008, 07:01 PM

I like Dakota. They always have what I need and stand behind all their
pastels. I have only had one set of Townsend crumble which they immediately replaced. They have good sales and are very knowledgeable.

I also buy Ludwigs. Not knowing the number never bothers me because I never keep track of any of them. I just pick up a stick I like and use it. I don't have hundreds of sticks only a couple of sets. of my favorite brand. If I run out of a special color I like I just take a piece with me to the local art store or search for the color and order it. If its wrong, then I've found a new color I will probably like. I can't take it to seriously or I'll be crazy (LOL).

meerriel

Willemke

02-16-2008, 03:03 PM

For anyone living in Canada I recommend Dick Blick, the shipping and handling is a little cheaper, and also the custom broker they use is a bit cheaper, they also package the contents really good and if you are not satisfied with your order they have great customer service, they will ship a replacement out to you with no charge. Their prices are very good and they stock everything I need. Living in the Canadian Rockies we don't have to much to choose from up here, so we have to order online through the US. I would recommend Dick Blick to anyone.:thumbsup:

HarvestMoon

02-16-2008, 03:17 PM

A zillion dollars later.... I still say dick blick.... BUT if Jerry's matched the SHIPPING PRICE policy of dick blick I would LOVE them.... they have so many things I can't find at dick blicks.... but add to that $30-$40 shipping on my average order... geez....

westcoast_Mike

04-03-2008, 10:31 AM

It's a toss up between Blick and Dakota. While Blick tends to usally be a little less expensive and shipping is free on large orders, I do have to pay sales tax here in CA. Dakota is often equal to Blick in price when they have a sale going on, plus no slaes tax. They also have everything I could ever want. Service seems pretty equal for the two merchants.

Adiro

05-24-2008, 07:30 AM

I am in Canada, and I have to say Dick Blick again! They are good and polite, but they do ship late. ( about a week after I place the order) however once shipped, it usually arrives within a week, and thats great!

I used to like Dakota but lately twice I had orders with them ( well, my husband, but the stuff was for me) they didn't say they're out of stock... however they advertise something at sale price, and then only after you place the order they tell you that you'll have to wait an indefinite amount of time to get your stuff. ( their words exactly: " it will not be here for awhile" And this after two weeks from ordering... It's annoying, to attract the people to spend with a good sale price, and then not have it in stock....and not say it upfront! and their shipping, very pricey!

for me, 100% Dick Blick, I totally support them!

Rusla

06-28-2008, 02:39 PM

Cheap Joes maybe slightly more than Blick. From my stuff coming from Blick I got hit 6 months later with a Fed Ex bill for more than double what my stuff cost. I am referring to stuff coming to canada.

For Canadians there is a place called www.currys.com
Now I have not ordered from them but others I know have and said they are good.

Randi-Lee

hairielis

08-23-2008, 07:08 AM

My vote goes to Dick Blick.

Potoma

12-04-2008, 05:45 PM

Jerry's just came out with one priced shipping. I'm thinking it's $5.95, but check. I really like getting the online suppliers' emails.

I usually order through Dakota anything pastel and then do Jerry's or ASW for regular artist stuff. Jerry's and ASW are essentially the same company. I like them, also, because they are only one state over and ship here quickly.

Although they usually have what I want, Dakota is expensive to ship and takes forever to cross country. I have had rather saucy customer service at Dakota and I also think their website's explanations could use improving, as I mis-ordered based on incomplete information. On the other hand, they were good about replacing some bad paper a few months ago. When the replacement arrived, the five extra sheets I'd been promised weren't in there, but they shipped them right out - except shipping is always a while. At least they came through on their promise.

Similarly, I ordered an 80 half piece set from Sennelier which had a small set of darks as a bonus. I thought about the lack a couple weeks after deliver, called them, found out they were out of stock, but them received them within two weeks. Follow up was good, but I'm not sure if I'd have received them if I didn't call.

RainySea

12-04-2008, 08:06 PM

ASW is not listed? I like to order from them. . .

Vulpine

12-04-2008, 08:16 PM

robertsloan2

12-06-2008, 02:07 AM

I voted for Dick Blick even though both Jerry's and Dakota have some items I can't find at Blick. I settle for going elsewhere only when Blick hasn't got what I wanted.

Blick has a good selection, the best prices usually (though Jerry's comes close), the fastest shipping and unbelievably good customer service. They use FedEx rather than UPS and their warehouse location is closer. When I placed an order on Monday, it arrived yesterday on Thursday. Wham. Wow.

One item, a set of oil pastels, had duplicate colors and two colors missing. Normally they'd send the missing colors fast but this item wasn't carried in open stock. So they gave me 20% off the cost of the set for my inconvenience and it was enough to order the missing colors from Jerry's and pay the shipping on them. They will always do something to make good on anything that goes wrong with the order.

They've never given me a hard time even over years of my pestering them with questions and not always buying the product I questioned about. I got my Pans there recently and love them, they've since added the full range set and the 20 color Tints and Shades set.

Another thing I like about Blick is their easy to navigate website. Dakota and Jerry's also have good informative websites. ASW doesn't -- the ASW site is sometimes a nightmare to find anything and I've had to send more errata notes with questions on mislabeled or mispriced items to ASW. Blick actually appreciates errata notes if I find a problem on a page. I always get a thank-you if I write them a message asking if an unlikely price is real or mentioning a typo -- they had the wrong dimensions on a Sennelier box that was considerably larger than described and I caught the error (metric and inches dimensions didn't match), and they thanked me for it and fixed the site.

When it's their picking and packing folks that are wrong and the wrong item's sent, they don't ever ask me to send back the wrong item and then wait to send the replacement until I do. This is something annoying that some other places do. I've wound up sticking with them partly on this generous reaction, which takes the edge of frustration off it if I unpack my order and find the wrong color replacement stick or something. I just treat it as "Oh okay, I wait a little and I get a freebie for my patience" and keep coming back.

The only item I did have to send back for them to return to manufacturer was a $90 watercolor set but at that price it's reasonable for them to pay shipping both ways -- and I have never been charged shipping for any of those replacements either. They have got that much loyalty for good service along with the good pricing, though Jerry's is comparable on pricing in many things and seems to be working on building trust with service.

The problem with Jerry's may be logistic though -- they don't have a warehouse as close to me so their UPS shipments take a few days longer than my lucky relationship with Blick. I haven't tried Dakota yet but I'm working my way down my priority list till I get to the things Dakota has that Blick hasn't got.

robertsloan2

12-06-2008, 02:12 AM

Rainy,

If I'm not mistaken, Jerry's and ASW are run by the same supplier, though ASW seems to offer better discounts.

I wonder if anyone knows their business structure? Why the two different websites?

In calling the ASW customer service, I get answered by the Jerry's call center. I think ASW gets more of the overstock stuff, though I have often seen the same sales go on at both.

I like the ASW catalog cover contests and intend to enter one sometime in hopes of winning a big spree, that'd be too cool. Jerry's site is much easier to navigate than ASW though.

ASW goofed big time a couple of years ago and made me so angry I didn't want to bother with them any more. I tried them again recently and so far the items I've bought have arrived on time without problems. I'm hesitant to place large or complex orders though because of the problems I had with their resolution on packing mistakes and the hard time their customer service gave me. Repeating the same error after demanding the wrong items be returned gave me a bad feeling about it. So I'm still cautious about them even though ASW sometimes has very good deep-discount sale pricing.

AnnGarlough

12-11-2008, 01:03 AM

Robert, sounds like you and I are in complete agreement on ASW. I have found some great deals there and have ordered from them for many years. But their customer service is awful.

I like Blick and Dakota, ordering from Blick usually because of their prices, and Dakota for sale items and things Blick doesn't carry.

beart

01-25-2009, 02:26 PM

Dick Blick seems to have best prices if they have the item. Also I like Fed Express as they come early in the day and packages are intact. Jerry's artarama does have stuff like frame screw clips as I was doing my own frames. Hobby Lobby uses these clips but won't sell them to you for your own use.

Colorix

01-25-2009, 06:27 PM

Can't vote, as my favo is Jackson's, a UK firm. A real person (imagine that!!!) emails me and asks if I approve of the shipping cost (overseas for them), it even works to shortcut the system, and email them first saying that if the shipping is below £ XX, I accept it -- saves me 3 days! Though, Blick is very good, but alas not within the EU.

Charlie

HarvestMoon

07-05-2009, 05:53 PM

I have tried Jackson's too- and great service! sorry I left it off.....

I still like Blick's the very best, but Jerry's and Daniel Smith are tied for 2nd place....Jerrys lowered their shipping price so that is great, but so did Blick's for cheaper orders, and Blick's always ships the product out really fast, which is great!

And I just like the wonderful unique PAINT from Daniel Smith but for pastels the service and best selection is still Dakota's!

And even when I don't USE pastels, the Great American pastels are still the very most beautiful to look at!

timonsloane

07-06-2009, 01:28 PM

I love Dakota - but buy most things at Jerry's to save money. I'm making a go of it as a professional artist, and it's really important to maintain control of expenses.

I've been to the Dakota warehouse. It's a thing of beauty and it's wonderful to be able to browse the open stock. You can get in if you participate in one of the workshops they hold up in WA.

But I've discovered that if you become a member of APA (http://www.allproartists.org/home.asp) you can get a permanent 20% discount at Jerry's. And Jerry's ships free all orders over $175. It is true that I have received my share of damaged or mis-packed shipments - but every time they instantly correct their errors. I even bought a tent for doing art festivals from them, and when I complained that one of the joints had a crack they sent a whole new tent. You just have to pick up the phone if you have any issues.