View Full Version : If Bonnard were to return for a visit...

01-02-2002, 12:40 PM
This thread was inspired by the exchange between Einion and Domer on the "Mud.." thread. Einion especially seemed to have a great grasp of the qualities of the newer industrial dye colors (for want of a better term), noting how some of them would combine to make cleaner mixtures than the cadmiums, even.
Anyway, the question arising here is; are we making good use of the "new" color formulations that have joined our former mineral colors in the painting spectrum. I suppose that we are not making good use of them, nor do we even have a semi-clear idea of just what all is available....and so.....the question..
If a great colorist like Bonnard would return for a visit, which new colors would he rejoice to find and which old colors would he, at times, replace with the new ones ? Cost is a factor so, in the event , that one of the new pigments is costly, please note the fact...many thanks and please give it a shot....dosen't have to be authoritative, just thought (and action) provoking!:evil: :p

01-03-2002, 07:26 AM
This was an aweful lot to ask from anyone....gee maybe a doctoral thesis or something. Anyway, so that clicking on this thread will not have been in vain. Below is a quote from a recent post by Einioin over in the Oils Forum. Certainly it is an interesting and giant topic. enjoy..

Azo Yellow Light, PY3
Also called Arylide Yellow Light and Hansa Yellow Light
A reasonably transparent, light-valued, very saturated green-yellow. The greenest synthetic organic yellow available, this is my choice for this hue position.

Benzimidazolone Lemon, PY175
Similar to PY3 but not quite as greenish or as light-valued typically.

Bismuth Yellow, PY184
Also called Bismuth Vanadate
A light-valued, saturated green- to middle-yellow, but unlike the two above, moderately opaque and marginally darker.

Azo Yellow Deep, PY65
Also called Arylide Yellow Deep and Hansa Yellow Deep
A moderately transparent, staining,saturated darker yellow.

Diarylide Yellow, PY83
Very saturated and moderately opaque, it is of the most orange synthetic organic yellows available.

Benzimidazolone Orange H5G, PO62
Similar in hue to Cadmium Orange, but much more transparent.

Pyrrole Orange, PO71
A moderately-opaque, mid-valued orange.

Perinone Orange, PO43
A very saturated, mid-valued orange, it can vary slightly from an almost mid-orange to the more common red-orange. A superb pigment worth experimenting with.

Benzimidazolone Orange, PO36
A saturated, mid-valued red-orange, it can be a very close match for true Vermilion.

Pyrrole Orange, PO73
A very staining, opaque, saturated mid-valued orange.

Pyrrole Red, PR255
Also called Pyrrole Scarlet
A staining, intense mid-valued orange-red. PR254 is similar but more opaque. Part of a very interesting family of pigments.

Naphthol Scarlet, PR188
A semitransparent, highly staning orange-red, slightly darker than above.

Quinacridone Red Y, PR209
A staining, transparent medium-valued orange-red. Some varieties are darker and violet-biased.

Naphthol Carbamide, PR170
Sometimes called Naphthol Crimson
A bright, staining mid-valued red with a slight violet bias. A good choice for a mid-valued red in this hue-position. Watch your numbers carefully here, the naphthol family contains many members that are not lightfast.

Anthraquinoid Red, PR177
A moderately dark-valued red-violet, this colour would make an excellent lightfast replacement for Alizarin Crimson.

Quinacridone Carmine, PR N/A
If you can find it in oils, this deep violet-red is also a very good substitute for Alizarin Crimson on the palette. Mixes near-perfect blacks with Phthalocyanine Greens.

Quinacridone Rose, PV19
This is the gamma form of PV19
This is a bright, saturated, mid-valued, violet-red. You have to be careful to check the contents of the tube, or a hand-painted colour chart, when buying using this number as the various forms (red, rose and violet) appear under a host of proprietary names like Permanent Rose, Permament Violet etc.

Quinacridone Violet, PV19
This is the beta form of PV19
Usually a moderately dark-valued, reasonably saturated red-violet. A superb pigment and a useful colour.

Quinacridone Magenta, PR122
Just about the same hue as above, but lighter-valued. Mixes the best violets with violet-blues.

Dioxazine Purple, PV23RS
Also known as Carbazole Violet, look for the RS, red shade if possible which is slightly more permanent.
A very dark-valued, staining blue-violet. A bit dark to be really useful but the best blue-violet pigment in some ways.

Phthalocyanine Blue RS, PB15:1
Just about the only synthetic organic in this hue position, and the only one worth having. Not nearly as violet at Ultramarine or some Cobalts Blues but very clean-hued and transparent.

Phthalocyanine Blue GS, PB15:3
A dark-valued, intense, very-highly-staining green-blue, much superior to Prussian Blue. A must-have for any palette in my opinion.

Phthalocyanine Green BS, PG7
An intense, dark-valued blue-green somewhat like Viridian but a much cleaner colour. Quite possibly the best all-round green and my choice for a single dark-valued green.

Phthalocyanine Green YS, PY37
A dark-valued, clean-hued, intense yellow-green, just about the only choice for this hue in a single-pigment colour.

Earths, sort of
Quinacridone Burnt Orange, PR206
Very similar to Burnt Sienna but slightly cleaner-hued and more transparent, and also MUCH more expensive. Be warned, it is generally in a higher price-bracket than the other quinacridone pigments.

Quinacridone Gold, PO49
Very similar to Raw Sienna but slightly cleaner-hued and more transparent. Similarly priced to above.

These are both beautiful colours but considering their cost I would prefer to experiment with the new synthetic transparent iron oxides instead.

Daniel, do you use PR3, Toluidine Red? If so you should be aware it does not have the best lightfastness reputation.