Buyer Recieved Painting-Accused of airbrushing over print?!!!

[jocelynsart]

I have sold a painting via eBay and I am being accused of having painted over a print with an airbrush. Yeah right!!!!!! That would cost more and take weeks of work compared to the 10-12 hours I did spend on this. I am so upset that I am shaking, crying and gagging. I have cancelled a lunch with a friend who just got out of surgery 2 weeks ago to stay home because I don't want to cry or upset her at all today.

I have worked my butt off and I can seem to not get anywhere!!!! I painted this painting, first a monochrome, then the colour, in drybrush technique. I drew this by hand. My kids and husband were here when I did it. I even had the monochrome stages up on the first listing I had up!!! My dining room table is loaded with paintings, where I work. I even did this over another half started painting. That was probbaly a bad choice, using the canvas for a new painting over one I started and abandoned. I gessoed it in a brown grey tone and I work thin so my paintings are so flat a surface. they would appear liek a print with little bits of paint on them I guess.
I have done demos and demos and demos! What more can I do to show that my work is drawn and painted as I have done since a teen!!!! I have several letters from gushing recipients of portraits and paintigns I have sold and done over the last 20 years!!!!! I can back up all my work! I have photos of me working. I have friends and customers who would swear in court that the work I did for them was real!!! However, none of this would matter as he can say whatever he feels like for all Buyers to read! Well, guess I knwo hwo it feels having thought it pretty seriously once about someone else and been stupid enough to voice an opinion I felt was correct.
I give up. eBay is so full of fakes and prints painted over that I now know why paeople pass by my work. It is too realsitic to be true right?! Sheesh! It is pretty painterly really if you were to ask me, hardly high realism! I lower my bids, hoping that peopel will bid and bid it up. I then look even More suspicious it seems. Can't win.
This money was to be a steady income for me, to pay for my needs, extras liek Bday gifts for the kids' friends, my pool league night, my personal work that I Don't get paid for or give away to people even! If this person puts a FB that my work I sold him, at a Bargain I may add, is Fake than that is it. I will nto be able to sell.
Yes, I have suspected the same of others' work, especially inlight of all the fakes lately, but to be sure I'd have to have it checked by an expert. I told the Buyer to go ahead and have the paintign scraped and pulled apart and analyzed to show it is real. I love the paintign but am willing to let him do this just so he sees he is wrong.
I give up!!!! I totally give up!!!!! I am just trying my butt off to make a meager living painting what i love and it sells for peanuts compared to others similar!!!! I have had another artist on eBay even treat me like dirt after getting a piece for a low price, sellign it for profit then leaving nonsense on my FB, a - in the guise of a +! I quit! No wonder my pieces, pieces I consider good and like myself, sell on eBay for peanuts! People believe them to be not real paintings. :-(
How can I handle this? What would you do? Can I put a complaint against him for slander with local authorities if he writes this in my FB and I lose my ability to sell? He is in the US. I give up. Online and suspicion and people found to be actually doing this eat at us, make us suspicious and ruin it for all. :-(
I am so upset I have been crying all day. I had a horrible night at pool, we are going away and now this. I don't even have time to deal with this before we leave. :crying:
I yelled at the guy in my email back to him. I am so so sick and upset by this nonsense that I could not help it.
My Id: portraits_and_fine_art
Please, what can I do about this? Can't he Tell it is a painting on canvas by hand? If a real painting can't even be seen to be real, what use is there even for me to bother! I won't give up realism to throw paint on a cnavas just avoid suspicion. Why should I give Up what I love. Others do realism for eBay and their work is bought and bid on like nuts!!!!! Why is my buyer, getting a real painting for a Bargain, saying it is fake? Is he blind?????


Here is the painting.

[laurali]

I am so very sorry.

I've been feeling this way too lately. I put in 40 - 60 hours a week just on the administrative side of the business (not counting the painting time) and, once you take off the expenses (not my time, just materials & costs), I barely bring in anything. Then, when you add in all the psycho bidders...

Bad customers are going to be a percentage of any business. I try not to let them influence how I run my business.

May I ask his ID? I'd like to block him (you can PM me if you don't want to post it).

Laura

[jocelynsart]

Laurali: Yes, I will not post it here but anyone is free to PM me. I thinks I sold him a print of my orignal? I never even thought of that. Ok, then what am I going to do with all these so called originals I am doing then printing ($$$$$$$$ to get good prints worth selling then extra time to paint on them?! Yeah right! It is easier just to paint it from scratch!). I only even sell it once so if I am going to paint all these originals then I'd be better off selling multi-prints legitimately!!!! Why pass of a print I had to pay for for one copy then work on top and hope to make a Profit that way! lol

My 2 friends are telling me to stay away from eBay with my work. But, I am not a privliged person, I don't stay home all day vegging and painting for leisure 16 hrs a day. I get about 4 hours a day and the odd free time when the kids are away or busy or out with their Dad at something. I have worked since 11 and I Want to be a contributor to our income. Thsi is the last straw, i feel as if I am being physically Prevented of doing this, of having selling my work as a choice! I am not able to pursue high profile Galleries hoping to be discovered some day. Most don't accept artists' slides or transparencies without an invite. The small Gallery here that requested me to bring in my work closed before I was free from commissions to actually organize my stuff and set up an appointment. I want to stay out of the bank and work from home This was good venue fpr me. But, here I am, looking stupid for giving away bargains hoping the bidding would go up on my work, then being accused by someone Holding my painting in front of them of it being a print?! Man!!!!!! I am really considering going to a pro-bono artist lawyer and seeing what my rights are in the case of someone trying to ruin my ability to make a living if he posts any FB concernign his accusation right for Buyers to read.
You can also see the ID in my FB I left. I am a FB first Seller, much to my own silliness now I see. Thsi is hwo I am. I know I have no reason to expect negs except in a case where somene had an intention of leaving them all along so I leave FB first upon payment. Even after being burned by a fellow artist.
I loved that painting too and considered entering it into a juried show I got in that starts tonight but i felt it was too small and simple, not enough interest as I had painted only the woman and no people who were on the beach as well as the sellers that sat there all day.
He says there is no Texture and that proves it is a print. I don't work alla prima and I drybrush. I can run my hand over my paintings and they are flat. My work is thin layers of drybrush as my many demos show. He obviously knows nada about painting differences. The canvas is even store bought and I was even considering leaving the tag stapled to it's back so he can see the canvas was never removed and restapled. What more can be done to show Buyers I actually paint?! Any ideas!!!!? Cause I Give Up! eBay and the nonsense on it lately are too much. I have scheduled lisitngs to start and I am considering pullign them or putting a Note regarding this situation in it, assuring peopel they can have my work tested if they feel it is fake! I'll even give them a half finished paintign in the early stages if it will help. But why bother? It is just eBay and not worth it for the Piddly amount of money I seem to only be able to make no matter how hard I try or how good I feel the pieces I offer are. Sheesh!
I knwo this is venting and I apologize. I did not know where else to turn as none of my close frineds are artists and the one who is looks down on eBy anyway, saying it is known to be a resource for cheap resellable art and the prices are horrendous. But, it costs this friend $800.00 just to frame his work so I guess he would look at it that way. I am simple, live a simple life with hopefully little stress and just want to paint and sell enough to pay my share around here. :-(
Thank you.

[andymathis]

This seems way too frequent on the big E these days. . .

Dealing with the public, in person, is bad enough. Sorry you ran into a bad apple.

I sorta scanned your post. I wouldn't get into a debate with the buyer. If you don't want to risk a negative, I would explain that the painting is a painting and not an enhanced giclee. If he is unhappy with the painting, I would offer to take it back and refund his money. You can't do any more than that- good luck.

[dorith]

Hi Jocelyn,

what a nasty thing to have happen - especially after all the effort and work you put into it, with wip pics, and everything....

you might just want to offer the guy to send the painting back and consider the deal off so you can sell it to somebody that actually knows a thing or two about real art.
it really is getting harder for us real artists to distinguish our work from the sweatshop "art", because now many of them are using the same selling techniques as the self-representing artists (pricing, colors, initials in the titles, putting usa as location, even though it's really china, etc.).

perhaps you should send him another email once your nerves have calmed down a bit and tell him what you told us - i think many buyers have no earthly clue how hard most of us work at our jobs to make a living/income and many of them are quite surprised to hear about it.
that just might fix the issue with him - i don't know if he attacked you on a personaly level (besides the professional level, which is bad as is), but if he was just asking, you might explain why this has upset you so...

here's a hug {{{{}}}} don't let it ruin the rest of your day too - it's a beautiful, very nicely done painting, so really, you are in the right, and he is wrong. he should be the one crying....

take care! let us hear what happens...

[DevineCreative]

If it were me, I would email him immediately and tell that you are insulted by his accusation and direct him to take it to an art dealer for an education on original art.

What an idiot!!!

Pamela

[it'sALLart]

Jeez, what an idiot, it doesn't even look like airbrush work.

I've had the same exact thing happen to me, in person, when I owned a gallery. A man came in and studied one of my realism pieces. (it's one of my best, btw). I work in very thin layers too, very very flat on realism stuff, no texture hardly at all. He came over and said (not knowing i was the artist) that "Whoever did that is a good artist that works on top of photos." I laughed and went over and took the painting off of the wall. Then I took it over to the bright windows and showed him the underpainting from the backside. I explained how I work, with layers of washes and very dark underpaintings and showed him where you could see certain layers. I explained that if I were to paint on a photo, there would be no difference from front to back. I asked him what he thought the logic of doing the painting over the photo would be, considering the cost of printing it on canvas and then painting it, bit by bit...it would take longer than the actual painting without the depth and artistic liscense. I hoped that I educated him, but sometimes you can lead an idiot to a great painting and they are still an idiot when they walk away.

There are lots and lots of idiots out there. If you got paid for the work, move on. It does no good to sit and stew about it. YOU know you are a great artist, take that and run with it. Don't let this one idiot ruin your outlook! If you do, HE wins, not you.

PS: The same day an art professor from our local art college came by and told me that the work was better than anything she'd done or seen in class. Ying and yang.
Your work is very nice and the painting skill shows... you don't need us to tell you that, you already know it.

[jocelynsart]

You guys are right. Sorry, this has been an ongoing problem for me in the past, online, not in person dealing with clients and it has made me so exasperated and upset that I am not being myself sometimes. It even makes me suspicios I have to admit.

I reacted unfortunately, because my painting is so passionate and dear to me and it is the only skill and talent I own. The guy got this painting so cheap it is embarrassing. That is part of the problem. I take my love for painting so for granted, I don't put it on a pedestal and I need to make a consistent living, so I offer it at low openign bids with the belief that peopele will see it and love it and know it is worth somethign decent. It just looks foolish and is detrimental when it goes to $40-$50 when if I saw it on someone's wall, I'd no it was worth alot more. :-( Thsi is my silly mistake to put myself in this postion. Of course people will be skeptical. Look at all the +FB and buyers some of the NARU'd rero sellers had before they are caught and closed down. There are gullible people who don't know a fake giclee base painting from an original. But, it would cost too much for me to do this! So the accusation is absurd anyway.
Yes, you are right, the amount of fake art being passed off as real paintigns is hurting us all. I no longer work from reference that I did not take or get permission to use anymore either, as I did the odd time when bored with my own ref., just so I can back up that my work is "original" and painted by me.

I don't care about the neg I may get. I may be pursuing a legal path. I would rather peopel See the neg and a response than look even more suspicious by changeing Selling IDs. My work will be recognized and the neg will look deserved then, if people recall me and my work. I have not hid who I am and people have access to my site, etc. via eBay.

I will refund him and he can keep it even as I really am so upset I don't care anymore. I love the painting but I can do a larger version with the people in the background even, if I want and was considering anyway. I loved the sand though, it went so smoothly. I miss that painting.:-( I should have kept it and added to it, creating a more interesting composition. My kids were even in the background! lol

Thank you Doris, Andy, Laurali, Pam, everyone. I feel better. Unfortunately, I was very mean in my email to him. But, I was already upset with an incident at pool, am under stress with a tribute commission that needs to be great, am packign for a trip, have my pool regionals this weekend, and now this-an accusation regarding my work that I love so much.

I'll let you know the outcome but I won't post this vent any longer. I also need to rethink what I'll bother risking on eBay now and when I will leave FB for buyers I don't know. I trust people and I feel it is right to leave FB at payment but I see it is a bad risk on eBay at the moment. I have 3 small pieces going on on July 3rd and I'll leave them. I have decided to do very small pieces that take only 1-3 hours and nothing more anylonger. It is not worth it and I get enough commissions anyway. Thsi was extra money and for small things that were not really necessities plus to pay for my personal pieces that make no money for me.

Jocelyn

[jocelynsart]

it'sALLart: I'd love to see your work and that piece if you have a copy online.
Yup, to actually fake it would cost more and take more time than it took me to paint it. That is the joke. I am embarrassed to say that took me 25 mins. to draw out by hand and about 10 hours to paint. That to me is fast and I can see how telling anyone that would make them even more skeptical.

I airbrushed and it took me a good 3 months to complete one and I was never happy with it anyway. Also, I'd need to work huge because I don't mask areas. I gave up my airbrush a couple years ago. I am going to clean and sell them when I get time to check them out again.

Funny, the guy's name was familair to me too. I had a feeling something bad was going to happen.

I'll offer the guy a refund then I don't ever want to deal with him again unless I am forced to. I never even offered one yet, man, that is how upset I was. He obviously is Not an artist nor has no experience around the art world or with artists or he'd see the illogic of his accusation.

Thank you all. Now I know why I love this site.
Jocelyn

[theIsland]

I'm sorry to hear about this. It's a lovely painting.

Selling online makes us more vulnerable than most artists to this kind of consumer paranoia. We're often selling to people who know very little about the how a painting is made, so they're susceptible to the latest rumors (and truths) circulating about eBay. (Just wait until a few million people see that documentary on CNBC next week - I have a feeling the paranoia is going to get much worse.) He's bought a few other art items, but he truly doesn't have a clue.

Don't worry too much about the neg you might get. You have flawless and enthusiastic feedback, and you'll still be over 99% even if you get a neg. Buyers will consider all feedback, yours and possibly his, not just the neg. My recommendation would be to diffuse his neg by replying with confidence and humor. I'd probably take that advice too far, because I think my reply to such an accusation would be much too flip: "No cheating. I'm just really good." ;)

Have you gotten on the phone with him? Sometimes a real live voice can go a long way to diffuse a situation. People can be distrustful of words on a screen, but soften quickly to a real human. Turn his anger into guilt and get the feedback you deserve.

Tami

[jocelynsart]

Thank you for the response. That is a funny retort. I'll think hard and long about what I will reply if he goes ahead. No use making a bigger Butt of myself than I am sure I have.
I will never ever call that guy. I never want to hear from him nor is he getting a refund and free painting in the process. I am glad I did not offer it. Someone may even have emailed him anonymously as he bid on another painting but never bothered to continue bidding and I received no personal communication from this Buyer at any stage, just the email that he was disappointed and feels I sold him a nice image but not my original painting and that the price is too igh for such, an airbrushed over print on canvas. Yeah, right, like I have money to burn and gamble away hoping I'll get $300 or more for a giclee that costs probably over $50 to get and it is really fake. I'd have to sell many copies to be worth it. I can't even sell my Real paintings for much as bidders seem to be scarce on my work but bidding everywhere else. Now I guess I know why. It was the reason I used to start my paintings high. But, that would cost me a fortune when I'd have to list and relsit while other people with similar work would get bids as soon as they listed, with Reserves high opening bids, everything. mkaes me wonder what I possibly am doing Wrong besides using eBay at all. I lowered bids and hoped for bidding wars but to no avail. Bargains is all I produce that way. I guess if it is too good to be true then....it must be too good to be true eh?! lol

Going to my juried art show opening, getting my kids from school and taking them for dinner and forgetting about this now. I have been insulted enough for one day! lol

Have a good day and evening all. The support you have given makes me feel better and feel less alone in this matter.

[ElizaLeahy]

Frist of all I think you reacted a little quickly. I can relate, I am definately one to react first and think later!

But your first email should have been a calm and businesslike reply that showed him the photos you have of the painting in stages. That should have been the end of it. Why are you talking about slander "if" when the "if" hasn't happened yet?

If he isn't an artist and doesn't know the terms he might be using "airbrushed" for a different thing - going over a print with a clear gel paint to give some brush strokes. These are popular in print and framing shops here and unless you know what to look for they can be hard to tell from original paintings - my mother, who isn't an artist, can't tell, for example. Perhaps this is what he means by airbrushing.

Remember, they have a fear of being ripped off by eBay too.

Don't refund the money unless you get the painting back - otherwise you are the one getting ripped off!

I hope that this resolves itself for you.

I don't find it worthwhile anymore to sell larger works on ebay.

[Paintbrush74]

{...}
I will never ever call that guy. I never want to hear from him nor is he getting a refund and free painting in the process. I am glad I did not offer it. {...}

I, too, am glad you did not offer to let him keep the painting and the money. Some people are abusive just so they can bully a person into doing something like that. Your painting is just beautiful. If I were so inclined, I'd be jealous! My prayer is that you'll stand firm and come through a whole lot stronger, which you already seem to be doing. Remember all the people who appreciate and love your art.

Lenora

[jocelynsart]

I agree Eliza but it has been done anonymously to me and I am so so sick of it that I reacted exactly as I felt, at the end of my rope with this problem. Another person has confirmed they received emails anonamously from other artists awhile ago regarding my work being "fake". Obviously explains the absence of bidders on my offerings which are Not lacking in quality if I have to speak objectively. I know not who they are however as the artist who informed me won't tell me. So, that is partly why I reacted, it is an ongoing problem and it prevents me from selling which I need to do. I refuse to be gimmicky I want to sell what I choose to paint and offer. Yes, small is all I'll risk on there now.

He was clear that he feels he was sold a print of my original with airbrush layers over it. I have the email. I have been scammed before Eliza. I am too gullible and trusting until something happens. I will take any Neg the buyer decides to dish out if that happens. I won't bow down to trying to avoid one by pleasing someone who says this about my work.

I agree with your advice, I freaked and I was so angry with this insult on top of the ridiculous prices I get no matter how I try that I had just had it. I also had a good friend and my coach of my pool team yell at me and tell me I am too nice and let people walk all over me. Not the frame of mind to receive an email from a buyer on a painting he seemed to expect was going to be fake. My gut feelings are often right and I am trusting them here. However, you are right, I am hasty in making preconceived judgements, advice taken and absorbed, thank you for being upfront with me. I am sure everyone would be concerned to have a statement on their FB about being sold a fake painting. I have left + FB already and have no recourse except a reply on any FB he decides to leave. I won't mention FB in emails to Buyers either. What irks me is I try to do everythign right and being a FB first Seller should Show my honesty in my items I offer. I put tons of WIPs and I have a site and testimonials as well as WIP auctions. But, yes, in light of all the fakes and underhanded stuff, I can see why peopel are skeptical, I agree he has a right.

Here is the initial drawing and start on canvas. You can even see the start of a piece underneath the tone I layed over for this. This is harmless and I have 20+ years old canvasses on my walls that have beginnign stages of drawings for another painting I decided to abandon underneath the painting. It even validates it as being definately Real. Thank gawd I decided to photograph it. Something made me. I even had this in the original listing. His purchase was a relist after a couple months when I felt I maybe had a bit of hope in doing better and was giving it a shot again with smaller work and opening bids.

The guy answered me but I don't want to deal further with this tonight and have the rest of my day and night upsetting. I'll talk to him tomorrow and only refund once he sends it back, if he does. We are gone in 2 days so he can just wait.

Thanks; Jocelyn

[jocelynsart]

Thank you Lenora.

[jocelynsart]

One thing I have to say is If people are entering into these transactions Feeling already that they could be getting a fake or knowing there are fakes and are that skeptical, or receive an email After they bid, they should either Not buy on eBay or they should definately email and ask pertinent questions Before sniping and auction. Not buy so they can later wreak havoc o the artist. They also should email past Buyers if they are so worried. I could have assured this Guy Before he bid and proven to him he was Not being deceived into buying "an airbrush layer over a print of your orignal" So, yes, I think anyone would be peeved to have to deal with this but I am learning it is the ONline world and a sad sign of our times as well as too much available technology so that people are skeptical. :-(

I have many many ways I can assure a potential bidder that the painting they see is Not fake if they are skeptical. They can email me and I can direct them to WIP's, past Buyers, a well known artist who sells $6000.000 to $15,000.00 paintings and does six figure murals whom they can verify who has seen me work for over 20 years, I have great FB by great Buyers who Buy Art all the time, what More do I have to do to avoid this thing happening? Other realists are selling fine and not having this trouble and getting decnet ending bids by many buyers. This is the upsetting and insulting part receiving an email like this. There was not even any personal communication from this Buyer at all, not even a note on the Paypal payment. Gets the painting and right away, emails and says the image is great, the art is a print that I airbrushed over. Why no brush strokes he asks. Why not ask someone else's opinion in the field? Why email immediately. Becasue I personally believe that he was Expecting a fake when he bid and this was his way of getting it and proving it. Yet, if he had someone Scrape it down he would be eating his words. I show over and over on eBay my WIP's to show why I have no raised paint becasue I know there are dishonest sellers selling photoshopped prints as real paintings and factory produced assembly line paintings over silkscreened and printed iamges. I saw some celeb ones just the other day with a perfect printed square edge and a wash thrown over them, obviously filtered Photoshoped photos of celebs and printed on watercolour look paper. But, they have Tons of buyers and great FB still! Anyone lookign at the auction can tell plus the pages and pages of repeat images. But, my listings should Show they are orignal art on their own. I sell 1 -5 pieces a month and work my butt off just to be able to do that between everything else. If they were prints, I could list hundreds and make more money selling them as prints even. But, these originals I paint are meant for eBay and I would not have even painted most of them otherwise let alone keep them. So, how can this be avoided? Soemoen just has to type in any opinion on my FB they want and Poof, my whole ability to sell these small pieces for an income will be gone completely. Guess I need to really consider other avenues. But, it could happen anywhere, even from my website. However, they would not be able to enter any comments maliciously on my site.

I love eBay but this sucks.

[it'sALLart]

it'sALLart: I'd love to see your work and that piece if you have a copy online.


here it is, thanks for your interest:

http://www.itsallart.com/theycrossdhereLG.jpg

[Picassosattic]

Well, I think the painting is beautiful! I do understand the buyer's concerns. There has been so much publicity recently about fakes being sold on eBay and about artists selling prints that have been airbrushed over that many buyers are very skeptical about what they buy. If someone is not familiar with art and what a painting looks like as opposed to an airbrushed print then they probably should not be bidding on art to begin with, but neophyte collectors do anyway.

Unfortunately there are many artists who do airbrush over gicless on canvas or paint over gicless on canvas. Frequently you can't tell the difference. I know of several very well known artists who do this now on a regular basis. It is one thing to sell something as a hand embellished print and quite another to sell it as an original painting. Artists who do this make it very difficult for all of us.

I am so sorry that this happened to you. You might want to try listing on ArtByUs.com. From what I have seen that site seems to have very high calibur art offerings and viewers who are more art saavy that eBay.

Good luck and don't let one person make you doubt yourself or your work. You are an excellent artists and your work is beautiful! Someone who knows about art will love the painting and give a good home.

Ruth

[surreal]

I am terribly sorry to hear about this, Jocelyn.
You are such a wonderful painter with a great deal of integrity.

I truly understand why this experience saddened you as it did and was so very stressful for you. :( You must be feeling very angry about this as well.

[Fagan]

I agree with what Ruth said. You are an excellent artist and those who have bought your paintings know this. Maybe you could take a small break and get away from Ebay for a while. I have done that several times and it helps to get your bearings.
I would not worry too much on what he might leave for feedback. You do get a chance to rebut.

[kiwicockatoo]

This situation makes me very sad. I took some time to look at your work online and it's obvious you're a VERY talented painter. Your work should command very high prices - unfortunately ebay doesn't always deliver on this account.

I know artists who paint over prints. Usually they do this to add texture and make the print look more like a painting. What he's accusing you of doing makes no sense. Besides, acrylics are self leveling, that's one of their traits, one that I exploit. My paintings don't show any brush strokes either. Unfortunately the many charletans on ebay are making the buyers very leery - but a few moments perusing your website should have reassured this guy.

I do a lot of wip photos too - I'll continue to do so! Sorry you had to go through this - you have my sympathies.

[nanabanana]

Sorry you had to deal with that. whoa that's some accusations there from buyer. Anyways ignore him or her .. and refund only upon receipt of your painting in it's original undamaged form. if it's damaged then you do not refund. Let buyer know it's his responsibility to repack and insure on way back to you.

Now's probably a good time to review your return, refund, exchange policy. If you didnot state that he / she can return a painting if not satisfied then you are not obliged to accept any returns, exchanges especially if the item got there safely. As long as your painting is as stated and actual painting matches the photo of auction, and you have enclosed a COA then you're good to go. You can respond back with painting is authentic and that you're insulted by his accusations. Either offer to refund upon receipt OR tell customer painting is real but there is no refund , exchange because he changed his mind and that in an auction bidding all sales are final.

Sigh selling art is a business ... much more so than creating art. Sometimes have to take out the emotional aspect. I know easier said than done.

You should block this bidder from all future bidding of your stuff. keep us updated on what happens next.

[sandge]

Joss, I'm so sorry to read you've had this hassle. What a pain!

I've had my fair share of difficult transactions recently. It's horrible when you're caught up in the middle of it. And I make so few ebay sales these days that it's hard to focus on the positive because there are so few of them! :rolleyes:

Did the guy leave FB in the end? I thought I saw a positive ... unless I'm looking at the wrong item.

[jocelynsart]

Thank you all. Yes, I am still very upset. I had a night of nightmares and my husband wanted to know what is wrong. I have also not eaten in 20 hours. He will force me to get off eBay and the Internet if it effects our family this much. I may decide to put a Sell page and a Check Out on my site. It is probably less likely to get me regualr sales but they will be higher and the Buyers will probably be more savy and less suspicious.

I did not go to my art exhibition opening last night. I was way too beat. I played a game with my daughter and rested.
I give up on why other people seem to make a good living on eBay doing similarly skilled work and I can't even seem, despite my skill and working hard, to make $500.00 even. That is just incredible to me. My paintings Must look way too good to be true then i assume, liek they Must be fake. The buyer got a painting that if anyone else had listed it, would have reached over $200.00. No wonder he thinks he got scammed. However, for me to actually spend money to get it printed on canvas and then actually get out my airbrush and bring my compressor back from my husbands wood shop would Hardly be worth getting $200.00 for it never mind a piddly $50. I paid $5-$7 in fees even to sell it to him.

Sandge, I know, your time lately has been bad too. It is depressing to see great artists in here being put through nonsense when they work hard and sell for so little. There are only so many Galleries and most are failing. To get into a prestige Gallery, such as the Internationally known Galleries in NY or Yorkville, Toronto, you need to have established showings, past sales that have been documented, published work, and to be invited by the curator. It is very rare a raw new talent is discovered and grabbed off the street or from some local show or gets their solicitations actually accepted, looked at and answered to. I know becasue my close friend has been in and out of a few since the 80's. He is with Gallery Moos right now as well as in a show in London, England. However, he is single and can devote days and months to pursuing such acceptance and bug people night and day to look at his work. I don't have that type of life and have nto since 17. Galleries that take Anyone's work or on consignment don;t have the client contact lists (the A lists), don't get high prices either and the consumer market is dead. eBay was a good opportunity for a source of steady little income on top of the commissions I get each 5-6 weeks, better than a frame and art gallery. But, it is really so much hassle and upset now that I am seriously rethinking. My listings start July 5th and I can see them just ending with NPB's or one bid. Not worth it.
I like ABU but was just as frustrated there with no sales and a bad experience with a seller I bought from. I had a wonderful artist buy a piece of my work however, but, I don't like feelign like I am advertising and selling to fellow artists. They are trying to make a living too. I know my work is real, I know I paint, my family friends and husband definately know (sick of my art stuff all over! lol) So, I am taking their and your advice, not worry about what some stranger on the Net thinks.

I have not checked the FB or email. I will let you know if it is solved and settled.
Thanks everyone for the support. I really appreciate it and it makes this whole thing a bit less upsetting. My husband thinks it is no big deal but I don't expect him to. It is akin to him being accused of Not having built the cabinets he is installing but buying them from the Brick or Ikea and altering and installing them.

Take care; Jocelyn

[jocelynsart]

Yes, Sandra, you are right. He figured out it is real. I am too upset to deal with him so I am leaving this as is. It does not change the fact that he must Not be the only one who looks at my work and thinks it is fake, selling on eBay. Gotta be the only reason it has so many watchers, no bids and the odd past weird emails. But, seeing what is going on lately in the news and with alot of Sellers I have seen and found out were selling photshopped giclees as original art, it really does not surprise me.
Jocelyn

[ElizaLeahy]

Jocelyn, I think you need to grow a bit more of a tough skin if you are going to be a successful artist.

When I was deciding which pictures to put in my logo for the painted pet I had to discard one of my paintings of a cat, because it looked too much like a photo when it was the size for the logo. As my art has moved away from realistic to more pop I discarded it in favour for more bright colours.

I received an email, it said "is that all you do? Cartoons?"

I could have replied, showed them my photo realistic cat, rubbed their noses in it, but what's the point. I got a little miffed, but nothing like I would have once.

I guess what I'm saying is that you are investing way too much time in being upset. Much more then this is worth. This is ONE PERSON. You don't even know his motive - maybe he is doing this to see if he can get his money back while keeping the painting. Maybe he is just being an arse. You don't know. But it doesn't matter what his motives are, by the look of things you are beating yourself up for him.

Stop doing this to yourself. And yes, it is you doing it, not him. All he did was write words in an email. He hasn't come over, physically stopped you from eating, stopped you from sleeping.

Yes, it's upsetting, but you are way over reacting. Get angry with HIM and have a cup of coffee and a chocolate biscuit. That's the best way to deal with people like that. Don't give him more time then he deserves.

[deborahbart]

So sorry this happened to you. I have run into a few bad apples on ebay and learnt to accept that the odd frustrating customer is part of the deal. You can't protect yourself against stupid people but fortunately they seem to be in minority.

Don't let it affect you on such a level. Ask yourself, is this really going to matter in 6 months time? I bet it won't. I was so upset a few weeks ago after getting my first neg which I felt was totally unjustified, but 2 weeks later I have noticed no ill-effects on my business and I can't believe I even worried about it.

As sellers we need to stand by our art and that means offering refunds to dissatisfied customers. I know I would rather have work go where it was appreciated anyway. I certainly would never refund AND let them keep the work - that's just rewarding their ridiculous behaviour.

Good luck - take some deep breaths and remember this is supposed to be fun! Otherwise we might as well be digging trenches!

[jocelynsart]

Thanks Eliza. And, no, I don't have to have a tough skin all the time. But, yes, you are right. I have it and it is there but I am not going to allow people to use the old "oh you need tougher skin" response all the time to excuse their treatment of others. Taht was done to me as a kid too. I am who I am and I won't be a hard rock 24 hours a day for anyone. I do have my moments and I will be aggressive when I need to be. Generally, I don't freak immediately. It takes alot of things all at once and this was the final straw. It had been confirmed to me by another person that there are people emailing about my work being fake. I cannot get that person to tell me who these people are. Sorry, but that is detrimental to me and my business. I am not going to let it happen anymore. It has been goign on for a year and a half.

I am fine today. I am moving on from this. This was just way too much right now and it made me scared that I have No Way of making a living. Yes, sorry, that is enough to cause this reaction. I turned to people here whom I really don't know well for help. I am appreciative of yours and everyone's help. I had no one else in the arts to turn to about this as they have no experience on eBay nor online.

This is settled now and I am going on from here. However, I am defending myself and hopefully educating Buyers with info I am making available, to help eBay Buyers be less skeptical about buying our art on eBay. There are fakes on there and it effects us all.

[artbyhiromi]

jocelyn,

i'm glad you're feeling better today and the issue seems resolved to the point you don't have to deal with this buyer ever again.

the coffee and choc cookie sound nice :)

[jocelynsart]

Lol! Thank you very much for everything H.
I should add, I apologize for this over reaction. I should let you all know that this is not the first time I have dealt with this but no one here reading this would know that. I react upon issues when they have been ongoing and long standing and handle most stresses daily rather well. I could not run a business for over 12 yrs if I did not. I have answered many questions from Viewers, bidders and buyers of my work. I have sold artwork on eBay since 1999 and more than one buyer was surprised when they got my work that it was Not a photo painted on or some sort of electronic transfer. I always answer their queries pleasantly. This was simply the last straw. This was a buyer who, like others have done, may have bought this already assuming it was a transfer hoping to expose me. Yes, i know that is jumping to a conclusion. However, it is a conclusion based on years of past experience dealing with these accusations and questions already. I wonder if other realists on eBay are getting them too.

Anyway, have a great weekend everyone. Thanks for your help and advice, especially Eliza and H. You all have helped immensely.
I did add a note on my ME PAGE that I hope helps all self rep sellers and will help Buyers be more aware and know they can ask questions and also that we understand their apprehension. I do realize I over reacted to this last buyer upon receiving this accusation yet again.

Jocelyn

[Alisa]

I may decide to put a Sell page and a Check Out on my site. It is probably less likely to get me regualr sales but they will be higher and the Buyers will probably be more savy and less suspicious.

Jocelyn



Jocelyn, Visited your website, I love your work!

Your ebayer is ignorant, and your work was too good on sight to believe it was "real". Don't let Ebay break your heart for too long.

As for the "sell page" you mention above, I highly recommend it :D I tried it when sales were down on ebay...just on a whim really. Sent out an email to my buyers when I posted a new painting, and I've made quite a few sales this way. I also email them whenever I put something on Ebay.

Another thing that folks like is to watch a painting in progress. I send an email out for "works in progress" and it keeps them interested in my work while they check the painting progression as I post it.

I also list on ebay, like right now, it's good advertisement.

chin up, best wishes, Alisa

[Maryeve]

ACK!!! Jocelyn, Im so sorry this happened to you. Your work is beautiful, don't let some fruitcake make you crazy. Think of it as a compliment..he obviously was amazed at how good it was.

I don't have time to read all the replies at the moment, but wanted you to know I was thinking of you.

[BryAli]

ACK!!! Jocelyn, Im so sorry this happened to you. Your work is beautiful, don't let some fruitcake make you crazy. Think of it as a compliment..he obviously was amazed at how good it was.

I don't have time to read all the replies at the moment, but wanted you to know I was thinking of you.

Ditto! :D :wave:

[theIsland]

One of the reasons I started my blog is so I can document my WIPs in a public space. I don't blog everything I paint, but if a painting is destined for eBay, I document every step. It sometimes amuses me that I have to go to such lengths to convince the world I'm a real live person, painting every day. :) But, as a buyer of online merchandise myself, I also understand how nerve-wracking it can be to give money to complete strangers online, so I accept my role as the reassuring seller.

Mmm, chocolate... it's the cure for everything, isn't it? :)

Tami

[surreal]

....................
I should add, I apologize for this over reaction...........

Jocelyn

You have absolutely nothing to apologize for, Jocelyn.
I am not sure that you overreacted at all.

I am glad you were able to share this horrifying experience with all of this.
:)

And, I must say that you are always a sympathetic presence on this forum.

I am very glad that you are feeling better.

False accusations are simply dreadful to deal with, especially concerning artwork.

[Picassosattic]

I'm with Nina on this, Jocelyn. You have nothing to apologize for. If you can't vent here and let your feelings out, where can you? It is a great painting!

Ruth

[juneto]

Tell him to return your Work, Immediatley. He should not be allowed to scrape or anything else that would mar your Work and he can not keep it, It is your Property ! Treat it as such! Get it back ,then, send it up for sale again at a Higher Price .
Stop Crying and get Mad. You are being Bilked.
Print up A Cert.Of Authenticity , stick it on the Back.
Good Luck,Guard your Possessions .
June

[jocelynsart]

Hi all: Thanks again for all the responses and help. I feel I could have been better with the client if I had done the 10 sec. count. However, it seems he thought the price was fine for Original Art but not a print plus, bad timing. It was a good price for a good print, if it had indeed been one. To be extremely honest, I have fetched $230.00+ for smaller pieces on eBay but not anymore. I took a gamble that this would reach about $125.00, low still but fair for the time I chose to put into it and let it go. It was intended to sell on eBay. However, it was shocking to see it only reach that price. It was illogical despite the fact that of course one can never be sure. So, it was doubly insulting. I'll take heat for stuff I do wrong but not for things I have not. So, he got the brunt of the last strawness of this continuing problem I have run across regarding my work. I was also questioned at a juried show 2 years ago about How I produce my work-a show I had won awards in even! And....I am Far from a photo realist. But, today, people are skeptical and they can't be blamed.
I Do go out of my way to make everything about myself and my work available for scrutiny to Buyers and That is also what peeves me off. I go Overboard even but have been told that is also suspicious, saying too much looks suspicious to apprently. So, I do what I think is best for me and for presenting My work.

It takes 2 seconds to verify either through my site, ME PAGE, contacts I can provide and documentation if asked. But, still, I get skeptical people. However, I am learning to accept this fact that I have only had to deal with in the last few years Online and not ever in the past in real life situations.

I have always thought of COA's for a one time original as gimmicky but I learned through this that your opinion that they document the work and leave no doubt about it's origins and I should do an official, signed and stamped one, even with a finger print if needs be. This helps protect Me as well as the Buyer. I knew them only as being necessary with Prints as they document that it is a Certified Authorized reproduction with the artist's permission and not an unauthroized Copy someone made of their owned print or original. So, I have changed my mind on using them. I used to just write and sign a thank you letter but that may not be enough.

Nina, I hope you are right. I try to be kind yet honest to people. Honesty can sometimes hurt without realizing however. I still try to be honest of someone is really wanting to hear the truth or I feel strongly about something. :-) Yes, I agree I had a right to be very concerned and insulted but I fear I was less than professional. He has realized he was wrong and he has left his FB comment that tells me this. He thought I had done this on a airbrushing machine, something I have never even seen. I fear to get a print of the quality that painting would need to have been in, I still would have paid more than what he paid for that painting.

No More large stuff on eBay. That was the last one I had left before I altered back to small quicker stuff I can risk getting lower ending bids for. I can't fault him for the ending price, that was my fault for just wantign to clear out and start anew so listing it at a low opener while at the same time being Too sure it'd go pretty high. Dopey me! lol

Thank you again all; Jocelyn

[Mich451]

Just my opinion on one item you mentioned; putting a fingerprint on documents.

IF any of your buyers are scam artists, your fingerprint is a very dangerous item to hand out to strangers. They can use it in ways most people would not even imagine.

[jocelynsart]

Ahhhhh, great point. Thanks. I had heard this idea once and thought it was good but now, realize It Is Not! lol Thanks. Yikes.
Note; I am of the mind that my Buyer, partly due to the price he got it for because of obvious lack interest and bids, really felt he had an artifically produced "painting". I feel anyone looking a bit closer could have known it was real but he may have expected it to and thought No Texture, must be printed.

COA's can easily be done anytime after the painting is sold anyway and forged, like any paper document. Better to have photographs of beginning to end of chosen pieces incase proof of anything is ever needed.

[madster]

Jocelyn, it is hard to make a living, comfortable or not, as an artist, and although it is sad that this happened to you, you over reacted quite a bit, and whether this was the first time, or the one hundreth, you have some real issues with Customer Service and Self Esteem as an Artist...I am so upset that I am shaking, crying and gagging. I have cancelled a lunch with a friend who just got out of surgery 2 weeks ago to stay home because I don't want to cry or upset her at all today.Before even contacting the buyer, you've worked yourself into such a fit that you are gagging? This affected your entire life so bad you couldn't put it aside for a sick friend? That's over reacting. You go on and on about all the demos, all the letters, friends and customers who would swear in court, but ONE accusation, and you fall apart...I am so upset I have been crying all day. I had a horrible night at pool, we are going away and now this. I don't even have time to deal with this before we leave.
I yelled at the guy in my email back to him. I am so so sick and upset by this nonsense that I could not help it.[quote]Although you did not provide details of the accusation, I can't help but feel again, you are WAY too sensitive here.[quote]I am really considering going to a pro-bono artist lawyer and seeing what my rights are in the case of someone trying to ruin my ability to make a living if he posts any FB concernign his accusation right for Buyers to read.
Now you're so worked up you're wanting to go see a lawyer about possible libel that hasn't even been established!
You list all the reasons selling your work is needed, and how hard it is to find the time, deal with all the issues, yada yada, and then when someone questions your ethics (from a site where forgeries and fakes are know to exist), you're ready quit, because it's not worth the bother...That's over reacting.

Although you temporarily calm down, and apologize for venting (which is, of course perfectly acceptable, no apologies needed), and admit to being suspicious due to your frustrations of online transactions, you are then willing to cut off your nose to spite your face by refunding his money and letting him keep the painting while you consider pursuing legal action??? That's over reacting. As a businesswoman, you would offer him a refund upon receipt of the painting and move on. You even admit the buyer has a right to be skeptical, but then postpone dealing with his reply to your "yelling" e-mail for 2 days. That's over reacting AND unprofessional.
By post 16, you are accusing him of some flim flam because he e-mails you, the artist immediately upon receipt when he is worried because the texture is too smooth. No, he didn't run to an art appraiser. Instead, he contacted the artist for an explanation. NOTE: He also did not run to post bad FB. He wasted no time going to the source. Heaven knows how you might have complained had he waited a day or two after reciept to accuse/question you! That is over reacting.

Post #24, the next day, still has you so upset and miserable that you have not eaten in 20 hours, and had a night of nightmares...Your husband has a very valid reasoning in cutting you off from E-Bay and the Internet, if this is how you handle stress from a "professional" standpoint. This is over reacting in an extreme form by this point. You skip your art exhibition, claiming you were too beat. Or, was it still over reacting to this situation? You sacrificed an excellent chance to network and schmooze with LIVE BUYERS, not online people, whom you can't seem to deal with...That's poor business, period. You honor yourself as an artist, and you suffer for a few hours to go to an art exhibit and socialize. That's part of the "successful artist" game, Jocelyn, not wallowing in self-made stress and self-pity.

You profess to taking the advice of not worrying about what some stranger on the Net thinks, but by Post #25, you are "too upset to deal" with the Buyer, even though by now, he has figured out that the work IS real...Yet again, over reacting.

Eliza was right in that you need to toughen up if you are going to be successful. You can paint until you are old and gray, but until you stop getting your knickers in SUCH a gather over the littlest conflict with a Buyer, you'll never be successful, and may end up with such a reputation as a Prima Donna, that you'll chase Buyers away.
...I am not going to allow people to use the old "oh you need tougher skin" response all the time to excuse their treatment of others.Excuse me, but I don't think Eliza was excusing her treatment of you by telling you that you need a tougher skin.
You did a lousy job of "defending yourself" when it counted, with a concerned Buyer, the one who is helping you earn money. You are "defending yourself" to the wrong audience, and contrary to Post #28, you were aggressive when you did NOT need to be (to the Buyer from the get go, and to the yourself the entire time), and you DID "freak immediately," as soon as you were questioned by the Buyer.

In Post #30, you again accuse the Buyer of spending time and money to "expose" you, with no proof but their concern over their purchase. How you've managed to not self-destruct over the past 6 years with e-bay is amazing, but you now seem almost paranoid regarding Buyer concerns, which even you admit they are justified in having.

Perhaps you should seriously consider leaving online selling for awhile, at least until you can be more balanced towards it.

[surreal]

Madster,

You seem to be reading Jocelyn the riot act.

She does not need that.

Do you honestly think that your post was helpful?

You seem to be extremely unsympathetic to Jocelyn.
:(

[ElizaLeahy]

Nina, I think that the point here is customer relations is something we need to work on, and if we react quickly and without consideration we can do more to hurt our business then anything else.

[laurali]

I try to take the calm, rational, professional approach. I have to admit, though, that when these things have happened to me, I lost a day or two of work and I have been so upset I was shaking. Sometimes, things hit you much harder too because you have other stuff going on.

Laura

[DevineCreative]

It is safe to say that Jocelyn's response to this customer's accusation was big. Did she over-react? Maybe to some. To some, all artists over-react. We are a fairly emotional lot. Many artists are not the best in sales. If we were all kickin sales people, we wouldn't really need this forum.

I think the most helpful thing that she can hear from us is that 1) her career is not over 2) she can handle this type of question without feeling threatened and 3) that we will support her while she processes the situation until she can respond in an unemotional manner.

We are all here to support one another. Sometimes that means listening to someone vent. Sometimes it means helpful suggestions. Sometimes it means letting our friends know that we relate to the situation. Sometimes it's helping someone see things in perspective.

For those of you who think she needs to toughen up (btw, I'm not disputing that a thicker skin would benefit the situation) how does one go about doing that?

Pamela

[ElizaLeahy]

For those of you who think she needs to toughen up (btw, I'm not disputing that a thicker skin would benefit the situation) how does one go about doing that?

Pamela


By putting things in their proper perspective. If you know your work is good and that your work practise is honest and you have documentation and can prove it, and you have past clients and friends to back you up, then you don't need to lose sleep over what one person says or thinks.

In this case the person just asked for confirmation. I don't know how rudely they asked, but even if they were very rude that doesn't matter. It was one person.

I was the same, Zoe has helped me a lot. You have to put things into perspective and say "how much does that one persons opinion count to me?"

If you have 100 people say "your paintings are fantastic" and one person says "well, I don't think that your paintings are very good" who are you going to listen to? Too often we listen to the one person over the many.

Why do we do this? Because inside we have this little voice saying "you know, they are right, you know that your work really sucks". It's called low self esteme. It makes us be harder on ourselves then we are on anyone else.

There is nothing wrong with becoming less sensitive in these situations. It has nothing to do with not having a heart or not loving people or anything like that. It means that you don't fall apart when someone critises you or your work.

[Toadie]

I wuld MAKE them prove it before any refund.

[chunkygoat]

I can sympathize because my work was recently questioned at a show by someone in the 'average public' who thought I 'just' scanned in a photo, used a photoshop filter on it and printed it out (also implying that something like that would be very easy/not time-consuming to do).

I admit that I was upset by it as well - partially because the person didn't ask me directly (I was RIGHT THERE) & instead told someone else (who couldn't convince her that my work was real media materials), and partially because I had a video clip playing of me painting THE EXACT PAINTING I had displayed - so how in the world I faked the video too - I have no clue. :confused: :D

I ranted about it privately to close friends and family for a bit, but ultimately came to the conclusion that even if I had set up my paints at the show & done a demo, she STILL wouldn't have been convinced, and that no matter how hard I try to get everyone to like me - I'll still have those few people who will inexplicably hate my guts. :p

I have a refund policy in place on my eBay sales for a situation like this - Satisfaction Guaranteed - No questions asked, full refund (minus shipping & handling fees) with safe return of merchandise. I would have explained my process, but given him the option to return it if he wasn't completely happy with it. And if he returned it, I would have tried to sell it for more. Maybe I would have even marketed it as "You won't believe your eyes! Painted so perfectly smooth like the Old Masters, you'll think it's a print!" (j/k!) :D

Keep your chin up! What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger. :wink2:

[paintergirl]

Joss,
Pick up a copy of Art and Fear by David Bayles,Ted Orland...a great read. Straight forward and sometimes humorous advice about the lifestyle/hinderences/processes we go through. This book can be found or ordered in easily from any bookstore. Here is a link to the table of contents.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0961454733/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-6934494-6897620#reader-page

I often read this little gem cover to cover prior to competitions and shows, bolsters my courage like nothing else does. It is not a 'how-to' book, just some great insight and you will definitely feel like you are in good company when you read it.
:)

[artattackstudio]

ElizaLeahy

When I was deciding which pictures to put in my logo for the painted pet I had to discard one of my paintings of a cat, because it looked too much like a photo when it was the size for the logo. As my art has moved away from realistic to more pop I discarded it in favour for more bright colours.

I received an email, it said "is that all you do? Cartoons?"

I could have replied, showed them my photo realistic cat, rubbed their noses in it, but what's the point. I got a little miffed, but nothing like I would have once.


Eliza I had exactly the same experience.
I make drawings-ultrarealistic drawings. But when it came to eBay, I painted in a pop-art style as well.
Had one other artist gal on one of the eBay boards mention the same thing: (there was a dispute on an opinion about nothing important) "If you are right, I will buy one of your little cartoony paintings."

I felt like showing her one of my drawings, or photos of the many, many awards I'd earned, but I just let it go.

jocelynsart
I'd be leaping around happy if someone mistook one of my artworks for a photo (even painted over). I've had my drawings mistaken for photographs, but not in the same circumstances as you had. I took it as a great compliment.

And it's true... You will encounter people who have both good & bad things to say about your work. I can tell you more stories from my personal experience, but don't want to bore you!

I know in this case it's a bit different; it's a buyer accusing you of doing wrong. But you DIDN'T!! Your work is fantastic and for the buyer to assume it was a painted-over print? Ijit buyer, but what a compliment!

Yes, take a break from eBay for a short while. It does help. But think twice about giving it up altogeather.