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Rodney
06-19-2005, 09:47 AM
MY IMAGE(S):
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/upload_spool/06-19-2005/49755_DSCN0644.JPG


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/upload_spool/06-19-2005/49755_DSCN0646.JPG


GENERAL INFORMATION:
Title: Island in the Stream
Year Created: 2005
Medium: Oil
Surface: Canvas
Dimension: 16 x 20
Allow digital alterations?: Yes!

MY COMMENTS:
Hi,
I have been working on this oil painting for 3-4 hours and using a picture for reference. I have a lot more work to finish the painting but will put it out here for any ideas you may have. This is a study I am doing for a much larger painting I plan on doing on a wall in our back yard. I plan on the larger painting to be 3 ft X 4 ft {maybe larger}?
If I think I can pull it off but want to give it a try on a smaller canvas first. I haven't been painting for several months and feel I have forgotten 1/2 of the very little I learned since starting this hobby a year ago. I can see that it is so important to paint as much as possible to grow and strength my desire to paint. The 2nd picture is the reference and the 1st is my attempt.
:eek: WOW after seeing the painting here I see so many things I need to fix :confused: the color for the foreground is to yellow and I got a touch of green in the some how. I was having a hard time finding the darker marble color for this? { I don't have any umber's or earth tones on my palette} the wall on the left and rt behind the chair is to purple and jumps out at me. should have mentioned that I had the sail boat blocked it but the more I worked on it the worse it got so I scraped it off but do plan on entering it back in the painting but should practice my drawing first on something else.

MY QUESTIONS FOR THE GROUP:
I need to brighten the colors up on the chair and try and get the water to look brighter and give it that wet look?? the Whites in the right area are dull and I just don't understand how to get them to shine?
any ideas will be helpful, Thanks for taking a look.

gurleygirl
06-19-2005, 10:17 AM
I think you are off to a good start. I love the colors. This will be a very cool mural!
Tracey

Dana Design
06-19-2005, 12:50 PM
Remember that your whites will look their whitest against darks. If you wait until some of your paint dries a bit, you can go over it with your whites to give that sparkle to the water.

Good start! If you'd like to take this to the WIP (works in progress) forum where you'll get good advice, I'll move it for you. Just let me know!

Rodney
06-19-2005, 02:30 PM
Thanks dana and Tracey
I hope so Tracey, we are going with the bamboo and palm tree theme an thought this a fitting addition. I see on your web site you have murals.. do you paint them? if so what would be your suggestions? Just start as I am doing here and treat it like a regular painting... I plan on under painting it with Acrylics then add oils that I have left over from my bob ross daze.

Yes Dana please move this over to the WIP page I goofed and didn't put it there and relized after I posted it. OOPPPS
thanks for the water tip will give it a try
Rodney :wave:

Biki
06-20-2005, 04:46 AM
Hi Rodney. :wave:

It is a little hard to crit because your photos are both out of kilter.

but it does seem to me that your perspective is off a little here & there.

For instance, notice how the top of the window in the ref pic is pointing directly at the horizon, but you have it quite horizontal.

Unfortunately also, you have chosen an image of a painting that is not perfect in itself when it comes to perspective, so it would be almost impossible to succeed in this case.( i am looking at the table & chair here)

Like you, i have often tried to paint things that are too complicated for my ability. I would crop the image to the left side of the painting only & give that a try first.

good luck - you are making a great start.
it is all a matter of learning to "see" - and especially, looking at the abstract negative shapes that appear between the objects that you are painting.

i do hope this helps, as many have helped me with such comments in the past.

laketrees
06-20-2005, 05:31 AM
Hi Rodney...this is a great subject for a mural.....your colours are working well.....interested in seeing the next stage.....
cheers kim

Rodney
06-20-2005, 08:44 AM
Thanks Biki,
I do see what you are saying about the window and that was bothering me to, it looked like the room behind the window would be hanging over the edge in the water. The original picture is of course a painting and I never considered the proportions being off {learning to see}. When I started the bocking in I exagerated things. I had the ship and buildings in there twice but didn't like how they were going either. will see how it goes but I may find a different picture for my outside painiting, perhaps I should use a real photo and not a painting for reference... Humm thanks for bring up these things that's why I was asking.
thanks kim,
I will spend some more time on this ASAP. on the other hand I do like the not true to reallity of the painting I am usiing for reference guess thats why I chose it. when we are in our back yard after a long day it is nice to get away from all of the reallity we have to deal with and and sit back enjoy the view with a glass of wine and drift away from it all.
thanks all for your gentle words.
Rodney

Rodney
06-21-2005, 01:10 AM
I think I fixed the window, it dose look better thanks for pointing that out for me. changed the color of the floor area, the picture doesn't do the colors justice for the flowers.. they are much brighter.
think I am on the right track?
thanks for taking a look.

laketrees
06-21-2005, 01:16 AM
Hi Rodney....I like the way you have subdued the railing.....the work has a nice tropical feel to it and I'm sure will be very relaxing to look at...(on your wall)
cheers kim

dcorc
06-22-2005, 02:05 PM
Hi Rodney :wave:

You are certainly on the right track here, but I think one thing you are doing is that you are "hitting your head" on the light colours - if you keep everything in high-key and bright, it gets very difficult to make your lightest areas bright enough - they just don't make paints that bright!

The trick is to use contrast - the lights look lighter and brighter when juxtaposed with some darks.

What palette are you using? If you tell me that, I can suggest what your best mixes for some darks might be :)

Dave

Rodney
06-22-2005, 04:04 PM
Hi Rodney :wave:

You are certainly on the right track here, but I think one thing you are doing is that you are "hitting your head" on the light colours - if you keep everything in high-key and bright, it gets very difficult to make your lightest areas bright enough - they just don't make paints that bright!

The trick is to use contrast - the lights look lighter and brighter when juxtaposed with some darks.

What palette are you using? If you tell me that, I can suggest what your best mixes for some darks might be :)

Dave
Thanks for the help Dave

cad yellow light
naples yellow
vridian hue
sap green
terra rosa
rose quinacridone
azo red medium
french ultramarine
cerulean blue
titanum white
student grades amsterdam, winton and the cad yellow is m grahams
:wave: got to get to work thanks again

Rodney
06-23-2005, 12:10 AM
Hi,
from a few ideas from this thread and whats on your easel I have made some changes to my painting. I added burnt sienna to my palette for my dark mixtures that was a real help for me. Thanks guys. I hope I am moving in the right direction. I changed the color of the floor but still not convinced I like it. worked on the right wall and chair. added the dark to the rail but need to let the blue dry a bit more before I can finsih the center of it. I added some darks with the sienna mixture and some green to darken the folage. I find it exciting to make changes and have some clue as to what the results will be. I do need to understand the warm and cools of the colors and use them in the right places.
thanks for taking a look
Rodney

dcorc
06-23-2005, 03:22 AM
Glad to see that you've added burnt sienna in, Rodney - using that together with ultramarine can achieve some very good darks - the rest of your palette's pretty challenging to get a good dark out of - I'd guess probably your best would have been veridian + azo red + ultramarine giving you a range of dark muds.

You could still push the darks in the shadows under each little group of flowers and leaves in the foreground.

Rules are - biggest contrasts in the foreground - less contrast in the background - cooler colours (tending more to blues) in the background.

The strong yellowish-greens you have on the trees across the bay is pulling them forward and flattening the scene - they are much higher chroma (ie intense, saturated) and more yellow in your painting than they are in the original.

One of the commonest problems people have, is to try to capture brightness and a sense of light by just pushing everything upward with the lightest, brightest, strongest colours thay can lay their hands on - and that just really doesn't work - a sense of light is achieved by contrast.

May I suggest a technical exercise for you? Go get a tube of black paint - ivory black. Mix a set of shades of grey - let's say 9 little piles of paint, with pure black at one end and pure white at the other - with the different greys evenly spaced, like this:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Jun-2005/17108-zonehorizontalwc.JPG

get yourself a black-and-white photo ( have a look through the Reference Image Library (http://www.wetcanvas.com/RefLib/index.php) - find a photo you like, convert it to Black and White - there's a tool there to do that) and do the painting in black and white, just using your set of greys - use the most closely-matching pile for the different areas.

You will find doing this will give you a much better "handle" on control of brightness and contrast, which you will then apply to painting in colour.

Dave

Rodney
06-23-2005, 08:31 AM
will do Dave painting in only black and white is a good idea. I did something like that here. I need to do more practice like this an get comfortabe with my colors.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244457
I know I am just a beginner and just want to jump right in and paint pictures that are really not possible with the experence I don't have. The conculsion I am coming up with are many but mostly I need to have confidence in the colors I choose and apply and leave them alone and quit 2nd guessing my choices. Thats easyer said than done!!
What you are telling be about the contrast and values of the colors and placement of them as the yellows in the back ground and trying to make the brights happen in one stroke and not use darks against lights are what I have to learn to do it only makes scense. I have read this and seen and you are telling me this.. now I need to do this!!
I guess it's like tunnel vision you want it to be this color so thats what you reach for with out paying attention to what is next to it which makes the color it's true color? I guess that makes scense..
I have just recieved a new set of colors from DaVinci paint co.
cad red light
red rose deep
ultramarine
phthalo blue
cad red light
hansa yellow light
a cool and warm of each color now to understand when to use the cool or warm of each color and where.
plus the burnt sienna & vriden
I relize this painting is not going to be the greatest but I feel with the input from you and others this painiting has given me a little more understanding and that's a good feeling to have. learning to use the tools in front of me!!
Rodney

dcorc
06-23-2005, 09:04 AM
The range of brightnesses (looking directly into a light source, for example) in the real world is far greater than we can actually achieve on the surface of a painting, where the brightest thing we can possibly have is white paint straight out the tube, and the darkest is black paint straight out the tube - so we have to find ways to cheat it a bit, to give the impression, using this much more limited range.

The other thing people get hung up on is they see a white shirt, or a green leaf - and think they have to be painted using pure white , or a clean green - because they confuse the body colour of the object (what it looks like, viewed up close) with the colour it appears in the scene - where one wants to show the effect of light or shadow on it, and perhaps coloured light bounced off other nearby objects, onto it.

Your (almost-)b&w painting is pretty impressive actually - but look how much more you have used darks in it.

Some "rules of thumb" (no more than general guidelines!) on warms and cools - warms bring things forward, cools make them recede - morning light tends to be cooler, late afternoon light warmer. Outdoors, warm lights have cool shadows (because of low levels of blue light bounced diffusely from the sky - also the basis of the Impressionists "don't use black") - exterior light generally is cooler than indoor light, and interior light is often best depicted with warm light and warm shadows (as shadows are still partly lit by diffuse warm light bouncing off other objects)

Dave

Rodney
06-24-2005, 09:51 AM
hi
I made some changes here and there, got rid of the brights across the bay
more darks in the vine area added the pot and change the floor color AGAIN
I think I am satisfied with it now. Next will be to add the sail boat but should practice drawing it first no doubt. thanks for your suggestions all
:wave:

Spyderbabe
06-24-2005, 01:21 PM
Looking good Rodney!
I like the orange/yellow in the vine and a bit of it in the plants under the window and maybe a bit on the tablecloth would be good.
Where's the sun? Around 1:00 o'clock?
Seems like the wonderful little pot of flowers should cast a shadow.... hmmm the table might too.

Rodney
06-25-2005, 01:33 PM
Looking good Rodney!
I like the orange/yellow in the vine and a bit of it in the plants under the window and maybe a bit on the tablecloth would be good.
Where's the sun? Around 1:00 o'clock?
Seems like the wonderful little pot of flowers should cast a shadow.... hmmm the table might too.
I guess about that or a little latter.. 2 maybe I try and not drink before noon so one would be ok since I have that wine out.
on the serious side shadows really do make a painting come more alive or give it more depth or something sure need to work on them more!!

Shadows :confused: I have been a little intemidated with doing them unless they have happened by mistake but here gose... what ya think?
I could proabably make them darker yet. when painting shadows is there a formula {this is proabably a silly question} for making them Do you use the same colors as the subject that is casting the shadow or just much a dark color and go for it I thing Dave mentioned something about using cool colors in some areas and warm in others not sure I understand all that.

more flowers or color on the right Humm what would you suggest? I do see what you mean if I thought I could do a basket I would maybe do that filled with some picked ones and set it there some where? :confused:

I got brave and built me a sail boat this AM and I guess you call it tightening up the rest of the painting. adding the whites in the water after it had dried really made them stand out more thanks for the tip on that.
I am going to be about done with this one after I finish the railing which I have been sruggling with. I think I need to let the paint dry so I can draw in the scrool work or come up with another look to that .. but that would be giving up on a hard part wouldn't it!!!
Give me more Ideas if you have any left over.. and thanks agian the the help.

Rodney :wave:

woops that yellow thing in the sky isn't a UFO I guess real flower pettel got stuck to it when I took it outside to take the picture. real observent aren't I :rolleyes: