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JayD
05-09-2005, 12:53 AM
Basic 101 Class 19
Drawing Children


Children are an act of motion. An energetic burst of cautionless energy exploding forth like a nova. There is no stopping them. There is no controlling them. We think that we know them because we were all kids once but as Peter Pan points out, you lose something in the translation when you become an adult. We watch them watching us wanting to be them while they are watching us-- wanting to be us. Children are our glimpse into a lost past and a hopeful glimpse into a possible future. Will they one day take care of us, raise their own children and start the cycle all over again? We hope so.

They roll like dogs, they whine and they beg, they want everything NOW, they touch everything and they are in a hurry to be grown up and out of the nest. Our reward, and it is a small one, is that we get to walk into their bedrooms late at night when all is quiet and right with the world and we get to catch a glimpse of dreaming angels softly illuminated by a gentle moonlight caress. Our reward.

Children a little people. They are Small adults sans the ability to make worldly decisions, and dependent on the wise counsel of the elders.

This class will be about drawing these little rascals. I hope that you will enjoy this as much as I have enjoyed putting this together. This will be a fairly short document. Not a lot to write abut but a few things to remember:

Jayd’s Three Laws of Kid Physics

1. Kids come in all shapes and sizes.

2. They look like adults only softer and smaller/.

3. It is virtually impossible to get a kid to sit still long enough to paint from life (although I am sure that many of you have that special gift).

Also, keep the following in mind:

1. If you are drawing an infant, remember that the forehead of the infant is larger then that of an adult.

2. The middle of the eyes will be found around three-sevenths of the way up the face.

3. The lip is around one-seventh of the way up.

4. The nose should be three-sevenths of the way up.



General Child Drawing Tips:

1. Don’t overdraw the face—children’s features are soft and contain only a small amount of detail. Adding too much detail in the face will make them look significantly older.

2. Remember how I just mentioned the softness of the face? It is very important that you also keep the EDGES of the child’s face as soft as possible.

3. On a child, it is ok to go with the button nose and the fact cheeks. Cute is ok—that is what they are.

4. Learn to compare and contrast the differences between a child and an adult. Make a list of those differences. Children walk differently from young to middle to older adults. There is less fear of consequence in their gate. For the moment they are oblivious of their eventual end. For the moment, they are immortal. Children can be very self-absorbed. Caught up in their own little world—it sometimes SEEMS as if they are not paying enough attention. Their hands are in constant motion. Kid will stare intensely at an a subject for any undetermined amount of time and then they are off to something else. When they run, notice that they bounce—not oldness—fresh an springy. Watch for these kinds of thing—you will find other differences as well. Make a list and feel free to post it for everyone here. Share the wealth!

5. Children like to run and to play—playing is actually acting out of adulthood from their perspective and is very interesting to watch. They are impetuous and full of energy—the best picture of children features them in action.

It is not always practical to sketch children in motion nor will you get them to sit still for very long. If you cannot get an ideal moment to drawn, then use and camera and take some shots. If you look in your scrap or memory books, I am willing to bet that you will find some interesting child action shots..


Teenagers:

As the child grows older the face begins to change. There is a loss of baby fat in the face-a sharpness begins to appear in the face. The child will become lankier or fatter depending on the child’s environment and personal disposition. Health and economy will also play an important roll. Most parents don’t like to hear this but look for arrogance in the face. Teens are more acute to styles and fashion—they are very self-conscious about their personal appearance (their taste can be debatable of course). Teens pay attention to latest trends so make sure that you are in tune with such things as well. Their walk will be more self-assured—they will have adopted their own sets of poses so keep a sharp eye out for such things. Faces will be more like adults in proportion but note that their faces still retain certain softness up through around age 16—after that life starts to show on the face.

If you have a teen, follow them around and observe them in action. They take themselves so seriously. They would never admit this but the teen process is still play acting—a preparation to leave the parental nest. If you have never been to Africa, following a teen around will probably be the closest that you get to a safari.

ONE MORE THING:

If you can, draw from life—make quick gesture sketches—do not worry about detail. Leave detail for later when you can sit down in your studio.

JayD
05-09-2005, 12:54 AM
The demonstration:
There is one child being drawn in this demonstration—me! The name of the picture is called “Swing Time”. I first developed the drawing in graphite and then redid it in colored pencil for the Whodunnit Thread.

The second part of the demonstration is a reworking of the picture into a bona fide colored pencil piece..

You may feel free to duplicate “Swing Time” if you wish—it was a fun piece to produce and then reproduce.

JayD
05-09-2005, 12:56 AM
Here is demonstration 2:

JayD
05-09-2005, 12:59 AM
I have included pictures that I have taken that you may feel free to use. The photos are not copyright free so you may only use them for the context of this class. One of them I have already tagged for a cp piece.

JayD
05-09-2005, 01:01 AM
The Assignment:

1. Draw a child in any medium that you want.

2. Try drawing some quick sketches from life if you get the chance.

3. Make a comparison/contrast list of the quirks of teens and children.


4. Go to the Guest Lecture Hall to see Celia's child demonstration lecture. It is very good.


Below are some links you should check out from people who are in the process of working on pieces involving children.


Reference Links:

http://www.annkullberg.com (Ann is an Industry Partner—she specializes in children)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269003

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269504

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267833

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176745&highlight=nancy+Anthony

http://nancyanthony.com/young-cowboy.html

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264285

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268981

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265096

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260565

mbeckett
05-09-2005, 02:27 AM
Well, isn't this a coincidence! :D

I always peek in the lessons, Jayd, although i don't try the exercises 'cause i can't keep up with all the challenges now. This week I'm fighting with drawing children in the WDE, in fact six of them with one blow! :evil: :D Seeing there's some overlap this time, I've posted the work in progress at about the 3 hour mark, and will post it again when i'm done. But now i have the tips from this lesson to keep in mind while I finish this thing.

BTW, if anyone wants more references of children, just search in the Image reference library for 'children'. You'll get 16 pages of 'em... just a little popular.. :rolleyes: :)

Judi1957
05-09-2005, 06:20 AM
Thanks JayD!
:clap: :clap:

I just want to add a quote from you that I remember---
"When you work on a child--pay attention to the lack of detail in the skin and think about the most magnetic element of a child's face and that is the eyes. If you land the eyes the rest is easy--just remember not to overwork.
The fact is--a child is a work in progress--children are not finished--that is the key"

Hi Mike-this is looking nice!

mothsailor
05-09-2005, 08:03 AM
Thanks again, JayD! :clap: :clap: Hope I'll be able to finish by sp and get this done in the next two weeks. It would be great to do some drawings of Sarah.

Anita Murphy
05-09-2005, 08:34 AM
I'm up for this - kiddies here I come!!!!

Cathie Jones
05-09-2005, 08:44 AM
. . . and if you have J.D. Hillberry's book, there's a section on children that's excellent.

http://www.jdhillberry.com/

SILKNSATIN
05-09-2005, 09:25 AM
This looks like fun. :)
Hope I can find the time to join.I use my grandchild as models many times in my fantasy art.And have tried to draw their portraits.There was only one I have tried live and I won't ever try it again.LOL.Here's one I did of my daughter and oldest granddaughter live.One good thing about drawing live that will help you is try a family member because you kinda already know there looks in your mind.That helps alot.Drawing children live always try to get down the most important features first so if they start to figet and lose interest and you have a 1/2 drawn picture.Then you at least have down the shapes and can work in details,blends and shading without them posing.
JayD!wonderful job about explaining children and teens.And love your pieces. :clap: :clap:
Ill try to check out the links you put in later. :wave:
Mike now thats a chalenge and looking great so far. :clap:

Fireman's kid
05-09-2005, 10:06 AM
Jay, I have to say your remarks about children are spot on! They really made me smile.

But now I am torn...I finally got a picture for my self portrait, but I would really love to do drawings of my girls. In fact if you remember, my pre-class drawing was of my daughter Emily and I have "owed" my other daughter Abigail one of her since then. Plus I have been waiting for this class to see if my skills have improved.

sigh.....okay, I gotta pick kids! I'll go back to the sp later. (At this rate I won't be finishing this course until I am 80! I think I have assignments to finish up for every class since #12! :rolleyes: )

JayD
05-09-2005, 11:25 AM
CJ--excellent resource as usual but also dont forget that even though the technical is a must to know you must also get into the essence of a child's character. Allow me to recommend a supplement to the Hillberry Book--check out this website:

http://www.poulinstudios.com/

Dave, can't wait to see Sarah

Staci--go forward with the kids and do the sp later--perfectly fine but I want to see the sp! :evil:

I just want to add a quote from you that I remember---
"When you work on a child--pay attention to the lack of detail in the skin and think about the most magnetic element of a child's face and that is the eyes. If you land the eyes the rest is easy--just remember not to overwork.
The fact is--a child is a work in progress--children are not finished--that is the key"

Judi--thanks for rmembering!

By the way, in this class I will be contributing sketches to the class as well--this looks like it might be a real hoppin class!

bjcpaints
05-09-2005, 11:42 AM
Jay, I have to say your remarks about children are spot on! They really made me smile.
Plus I have been waiting for this class to see if my skills have improved.
(At this rate I won't be finishing this course until I am 80! I think I have assignments to finish up for every class since #12! :rolleyes: )

Stacey, I am right there with you! I am embarassed to even show up here. I have only posted drawings from a year ago and haven't done anything new at all in graphite. I think my last lesson that I finished was the one before "folds" - can't even tell you the #.
Well, this is what I really want to learn to do though. Ever since I saw Judi's portrait of Luke as a little boy blowing out his candles, I have wanted to do a portrait of my grandchildren. I willl desperately try to follow along here.
Bonnie, Your babies are so wonderful and you make it look so easy - why do my drawings come out a smeary mess?!?
JayD, Thanks for keeping up this course - I will try to show up more often and be a better student. My in-laws situation has not changed and my time is very short but I am learning to do things in bits of time 10-15 minutes here and there. Sketching at work is not an option for me so I will do what I can in the evenings.
Sorry to write a book! Oh, BTW Can I borrow yours - CJ? :D Thanks for the link!
Barbara

cmwynn
05-09-2005, 02:27 PM
My pre-class assignment was of my grandson, then 2 months old. He will be 9 months this week, what a change, both in him and in my drawing skills. I have done a monthly drawing (no, not the kind they do at the supermarket!) and will post them with the new one. This is certainly not the only kind of drawing I want to do, but maybe my favorite.

JayD
05-09-2005, 02:31 PM
Connie--post BOTH for us to see. I can see the improvement in your drawing skills and so can everyone else here I am sure.

SILKNSATIN
05-09-2005, 02:47 PM
Thanks barb.I used mostly the sanford b pencils on this one.They seem not to smear at all.than topped it off with a bit of ebony pencil.Sanford design b pencils are the only ones I have found not to have a smear when working with them.They are a very hard lead.But sometimes I like the smear to help blendings.

Mary Woodul
05-09-2005, 03:37 PM
Hi Everyone! :wave: I'm still trying to finish my sp but JayD, I just wanted to tell you that your writing is beautiful and you sure know kids. Tomorrow is Mother's Day in Mexico and my four grandchildren will be over at the same time so I would like to get a picture of the four in the same shot for the class assignment. Two girls 12 and 10 and two boys 6 and 3. A nice assortment to choose from. :D

Mike yours is looking great and I see you put in several at the same time very well, as did Bon.

Hi Judi, Dave, Connie, Barbara, Stacey, Anita and CJ and of course, Mike, Bon and JayD. :wave:

JayD
05-09-2005, 04:04 PM
Bon, I really like the double header--are you referring to the Sanford Turquoise pencils--those are the ones that I like to use. they lay down nicely.

Mary! Thank you! And happy Mother's Mother's day to you, grandma! :D We just celebrated it here--I bought my wife one of those mini ipods and some inks--MY mother got a new Bible (it is the perfect gift for her, bless her heart).

llanpe
05-09-2005, 06:41 PM
When we are still fighting with the sp and thinking this is the worst thing to draw, here we have lesson 19, DRAWING CHILDREN!, now I am happy working in the SP, because I am sure this is not so difficult, there are worst things to do. :crying: :D
Thanks Jay for all the information and the nice photos. I will try this.
Peter

llanpe
05-09-2005, 06:43 PM
Bon I love your drawing.
Mary, feliz dia de las madres.
Peter

SILKNSATIN
05-09-2005, 09:07 PM
Hi mary thank you and hope you have a wonderful mothers day.
Thank you JayD and yes them are it. :D
Thank you peter. :wave:

JayD
05-09-2005, 10:28 PM
Bon, those are great--I like them even better then my wolff's and my mechanicals.

Peter--anything I can do break the monotony of your day! :D

Actually, you cwazy kids should consider drawing yourselves as children---peter and company :evil:

But any kid will do--just try to focus on instilling energy and life into the picture.

Mary Woodul
05-09-2005, 11:00 PM
Muchas Gracias, Peter, JayD and Bon. Peter you and I are still fighting with our sp and I can still remember JayD's words before he posted this assignment, something about it being a breeze after the sp. :confused: :evil:

Bon, I love all of your art but the way you do children is just awesome.

Stacey, the reason I am going to do the four together is because of not having to go through the predicament of who to choose first. After this next one, then I'll go by ages. :D

Connie, I'm looking forward to seeing your nine month old grandson's portrait.

SILKNSATIN
05-09-2005, 11:33 PM
Thank you mary. :wave:
I just had to draw a lil babe. :angel:
Didn't spend much time on this one though.Done with 2H and 4B pencil.

mbeckett
05-10-2005, 12:49 AM
OK... that's enough kid practice! :( :( :( :evil: :D

This is also posted in the WDE for May 7.

Anita Murphy
05-10-2005, 08:22 AM
Mike - so cute - especially the child with the "Who me?" expression!

Mary - Happy Mother's Day! My husband tells me I am not allowed to claim Mexican Mother's Day as I had British and American! :D I say live in the country, follow their holidays - as well as your own!! :evil:

Silk'n'satin - adorable.

Will start on this today.

Reinhard1
05-10-2005, 12:20 PM
Cathie Jones (CJ) AND llanpe (Peter), don't even think of this before the sp! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :wave: :D
I have you covered. I vill follow you (please read with colonel Clink's accent) and you vill like it!

Judi1957
05-10-2005, 12:28 PM
Just a hey ALL :wave:
Happy Mother's Day Mary!
Bon-those are great-i should have commented last night but I was just being quiet for a change :D
Mike nice work!
I found a pic of grandson Michael on his hobby horse and may do that-but I know there is one of me around on my hobby horse that'll make ya hoot-so if I find it-be prepared for a good laugh. :D .

Judi1957
05-10-2005, 02:45 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap: WONDERFUL NEWS! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Letter from Blah!:

Subject: Back in circulation...Blah


Dear Judi,
My sincere apologies for this long silence and continued absence from
Wet Canvas & Basic 101, and in particular for not having acknowledged
your e-mail promptly.
I hope to start visiting WC regularly very soon. Maybe in a week or
so, and I am dying to be back with the class. Of course, it is going
to take me a long, long time to catch up.
I have been absolutely swamped with work for the last few months and I
found myself falling steadily behind schedule both at work and at
Basic 101. Sometime in mid-February I made a promise to myself that I
would stop accessing WC from my office (which I used to do every day
during my lunch break) until I had my work back under control. Since I
do almost all of my posting from home, this was really not a very big
deal. Unfortunately my dial-up connection from home let me down quite
badly. It was so infuriation that after a few days I signed up for a
broadband connection through the same service provider, our state
owned telephone company. It took them over a month to come and install
the connection, and all this while the dial-up connection too did not
work.
Part of the problem in getting the broadband connection installed was
the fact that my wife and I are both out during the day. The telephone
company being state owned, their employees work shorter hours than we
do. We could not be there when they were willing to come and they
wouldn't when one of us was willing to stay back from work.
When it was finally installed the broadband connection worked as long
as the guy from the telephone company was within hailing distance!
Well...almost that. It worked for two days and after that it took
almost a month and a half to get it to work again. Meanwhile even the
telephone did not work for almost three weeks. We finally got
everything working just a few days ago and I am e-mailing you from
home.
In a way the timing has worked out ok because I have also got my work
more or less under control. In addition to my practice, I also visit
three architectural colleges regularly to review undergraduate thesis
work (about 30 students, six reviews per student; I see each student's
work once every three weeks). This happens between December and
April/May, and the last couple of months (March - April) get to be
really hectic because the thesis submission date is usually some time
in May. That commitment is now over for this academic year.
Once again my apologies for disappearing so suddenly and for not
e-mailing earlier.

Your friend

Balaji


Response:

Blah!!!
It is so wonderful to hear from you!
We were all very appreciative you did get back to us the way you had as we were concerned about you, and it gave us a sense of relief.
We will anticipate your return!
I am glad to hear that your workload has somewhat lightened, you need 'playtime' too!

This made my day----hearing from you!
Great hearing from you,

Your friend,

Judi Lynch

bjcpaints
05-10-2005, 03:57 PM
Well, This was a timely visit! Judi - thanks for forwarding the news from Blah - glad all is well.
Bon, Thanks for the info on the pencils - I need some motivation/encouragement to draw again.
Believe it or not I have started getting in the habit of doing an extensive drawing on canvas before painting it. Very lightly of course. What a difference in the results - to see exactly where your boundaries are for each color rather than guessing and ooops, when you step away its looking bad.
I'm working on a scene of racehorses right now (not yet posted) and I can't tell you how much this drawing course helped give me the foundation for this painting! Thanks again for everyone's participation!
Talk to you soon!
Barbara

mothsailor
05-10-2005, 04:34 PM
That's great news about Blah...thanks for passing it on Judi. I'm having a good time going through all my pictures of Sarah. It's hard to choose one to draw!

Cathie Jones
05-10-2005, 05:05 PM
Looks like I can run, but I can't hide . . . Reinhard keeps finding me!:eek: You're a hard man, you're Kingship. And I most certainly did hear the accent! So, I'll keep working on the sp as time permits. :( I'm now in two-job mode for another week or so, but will do what I can. (Surely, children must be more fun to draw than old women!)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-May-2005/23460-baggylady.small.gif

Did everybody see the "everybody draw/paint from the same reference" references? One is a beautiful, chubby-cheeked baby.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-May-2005/23460-cartoon_kid_bulging_eyes.gif

Reinhard1
05-10-2005, 05:30 PM
Cathie, see my comment in "class 18" to your remark to Dave.
I agree with you in one point, you're not a baby, although your husband rightfuly calls you that once in a while, but I strongly object to your second remark "drawing an old lady". That you're definitively not! BTW "old" people, like me, are young people who just have been around for a while longer. It's what's between the ears and not the number in the passport. That's just for immigration!

JayD
05-11-2005, 06:50 AM
I am relieved to hear that Blah is back in operation. Blah, if you are following this, my best wishes to you and your family.

Reinhard--welcome to my world..... :)

CJ--old or young--they each have their own unique set of problems. kids are minature adults with less wear and tear. I think that it is harder but put in less detail the more detail--give me a craggy face anyday! :)

SILKNSATIN
05-11-2005, 08:53 AM
Great to hear about blah. :clap:
What happened to furrtig,gail and alfredart?

Mary Woodul
05-11-2005, 01:58 PM
Thank you all for the Mother's Day greetings.

Anita, hope you had a nice Mother's Day and you convince your husband that you just have to celebrate the Mexican Mother's Day also. Hope you have better luck that I do, when I say it is Mother's Day in the US and I am from there, they will just greet me, but no gift. :crying: I had a very nice one yesterday, though. :D

Bon, your baby drawing is just incredibly cuddling. Now I see about little detail, it is awesome what you accomplished with some lines. Of course the eye and the hair are just beautiful. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Mike, Your drawing is fantastic you such an array of expressions . That drawing almost talks.

How wonderful to hear some news about Blah, I think he is truly missed. Thank you Judi for sharing the letter with us.

I planned to start my kiddy drawing but after reading Reinhard's message to CJ and Peter, I'm having seconds thoughts. :evil:

Hi Barbara, nice to see you around.

Dave, I'm sure you will do a fantastic job with Sarah's picture.

JayD, will we have two weeks for this one also?

mothsailor
05-11-2005, 02:11 PM
Bon and Mike, your drawings are both very special and show your inimitable styles!

I'm trying to get off to an early start this class, so here is a rough outline and the reference photo.

Anita Murphy
05-11-2005, 05:59 PM
Totally thrown trying to find a picture I want to do for this. Still looking. All show teeth and I am being totally chicken about open mouths!

JayD
05-11-2005, 07:21 PM
Bon, great drawing. as usual of course.

Mike--this is great-call it "in the dugout". Are you going to do this in color as well?

Anita, if you get stuck--check out the library or you can go back to the beginning of this session and use some of the shots that I took.

Judi1957
05-11-2005, 08:11 PM
Hi All :wave:

Dave-Sarah is a beauty! :clap: I think you need to recheck your measurements for placements, angles and shapes before you transfer.

Mike-Love the dugout!
Bon, I love the baby to!

Hi JayD, Mary, Anita.
Anita-don't be afraid of the teeth-they are not as bad as you would think.

Got this ref from the RIL and she stole my heart. She just makes you smile back.
This is a rough of the rough. Just posting to show you I am working. :angel:
They put us on what I call "suggested" mandatory overtime and things are going to be busy for a while-at least in spurts.

cmwynn
05-11-2005, 08:18 PM
Before starting another drawing of the baby, I am re-visiting a previous drawing. I had started drawing last May, in the Weekly Drawing Thread, then joined in a thread Jay started, doing a portrait of himself as a child. He invited everyone to join in. I did so, knowing I didn't know what I was doing, but just as a reference point if I improved. I am showing (a) the drawing I did last summer, (b) the reference photo, almost 60 years old, and (c) the new version. I can see that I have improved, but not as much as I would like, and am open to lots of criticism. Pour it on!
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-May-2005/29839-CMW_age_8xm.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-May-2005/29839-photoxm.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-May-2005/29839-8_years_v2xm.jpg

Judi1957
05-11-2005, 09:28 PM
WoW Connie-I see a great improvement. You are showing some depth with her eyes. I think you could recheck the shape of them though.
Your shading is a super improvement! :clap: :clap:
I would recheck the shape of her face. Her cheek in the lower left side of the drawing goes down too far.
I also think you caught the angle of her shoulders much more like the ref. I think you managed this thru your shading and the corrected collar!
I would also check her nose location. If you see in the ref-the distance from the top of her eybrows to the bottom of her nose is the same as from the bottom of her nose to the bottom of her chin.
Really nice Connie. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Deb Leger
05-12-2005, 12:07 AM
Hi JayD and Artists!

I have this lesson formatted. Jayd, there's one spot where you say, "I have included pictures that I have taken that you may feel free to use. The photos are not copyright free so you may only use them for the context of this class. " Because of that, I did NOT include them in the formatted lesson, since the formatted lessons may be around for a very long time and who-knows-where. Hope that's okay.

Mike, Wow, that beautiful drawing doesn't look like you had to fight with it at all! Beautiful!

Bon, you do beautiful work and have two beautiful models!

Judi, thanks for posting the letter from Blah, it's good to know that he's okay.

CJ, love the little pic of the old woman you put in your letter!

Reinhard, I love how you put that! We're not old people, we're just young people who've been around for a while longer! I have to remember that, especially when my 18-year old starts on about my being so ancient. (And that's so cute about the number being for immigration.)

Dave, that is a beautiful pic you chose!! Priceless memories. I went through some albums tonight, looking for a picture of my youngest guy that I have in mind but realized that with two boys, I'm going to have to draw them both. (Or I hear about 'favouritism'.) So, I might take Jayd's advice and use one of my own baby pics!

Judi, that little girl makes you laugh back for sure! What a sweetheart.

Connie what awesome improvement you've made from the first drawing! You really are an inspiration to us all.

Hopefully, now that Mother's Day is over and Tux-for-the-prom is all finished, I'll be able to keep more up to date. (Though Mother's Day was my choice of what-to-do/where-to-go and as always, I chose a day spent at les chutes des Plaisance - a very beautiful and untouched waterfalls spot approx. 1.5 hours away in Quebec. My choice of restaurant was a picnic lunch at the falls. And because it was Mother's Day, the questions of "are you done yet Mom, can we go now" were totally exempted. :evil: )

Deb

Mary Woodul
05-12-2005, 06:49 AM
Good morning everyone! :wave:
Dave your picture of Sarah is a beautiful one.
Anit, know what you mean about open mouths, the picture I took of my four has that defect with my oldest granddaughter and she wears braces, so Imight do some alterations. It was so hatd in the first place to make them sit still long enough for a photo.
Judi, you found a great picture, your right about the smile. BTW, thank you for the observations on my sp, I'll fix those today.
Connie that little girl has such an angelic face. She is beautiful.

Hi Deb, nice to see you around and you must have enjoyed you Mother's Day, it must be a beautiful place. :D

JayD, I'll start today. :wave:

Anita Murphy
05-12-2005, 09:41 AM
Judi - isn't she just adorable! Why do they have to grow up????

Ok - bit the bullet and got myself motivated. This is my daughter aged 4 - before the piercings!!!!!

mothsailor
05-12-2005, 11:46 AM
I saw lots of problems with mine when I posted it! Anita, your drawing of your lovely daughter looks close. The only thing that really struck me was the angle of the right eye (our left), which I think slopes down more in the photo than in your drawing.

Teeth are tricky, aren't they. At least Sarah doesn't have too many in this photo!

Reinhard1
05-12-2005, 12:06 PM
Dave, what a cutie!! :wave: :angel: :cat:
What I see so far is that the face in the drawing is too narrow, the eyes are a bit too wide open. The smile is there. If the mouth is too open I can't say at the moment, but I will be watching you on this. Looking forward to your update.

SILKNSATIN
05-12-2005, 12:24 PM
Looking great all. :clap:

Anita Murphy
05-12-2005, 12:33 PM
Update before I go have heartattack on treadmill.

cmwynn
05-12-2005, 03:23 PM
Anita - I think Dave is right, the slant of the eye is off a touch. But that is a niggling thing is such a lovely drawing.
Judi - The points you mentioned about mine were all things I had erased and done over many times. I have tried again, maybe correcting them, maybe not.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-May-2005/29839-8_years_v2xm.jpg

Reinhard1
05-12-2005, 03:38 PM
Connie, you're doing just fine. However, be beware of the left (her right) eye. On my screen it looks as if you drew it too large. When checking back with the reference I think what threw you off a bit is the shadow on this eye which you interpreted as all eye. I suggest to take a close look at the photo, see what is eye and what is shadow and draw, at least the eyeball similar in size as in the other eye and then go shadowy.

JayD
05-12-2005, 11:08 PM
Boy I go away for a few days and you guys are in the thick of it--good job everyone. Connie I especially like yours.

Anita when you do a drawing using a photo-dont worry about reproducing it exactly--you ALWAYS have to compensate for optical irregularties that photos will cause--always check your proportions based on what you know --not what you see.

Judi, Nice job with the critiquing.

Reinhard--I have something for you in the main forum. :)

Anita Murphy
05-13-2005, 11:13 AM
Here she is!

llanpe
05-13-2005, 11:32 AM
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Hello everyone, better late than never. Here is what I started to do, my grandson after the bath.
I did the initial drawing very light with F pencil. I learned a good lesson with the sp. I started so dark that nearly I couldnt erase to fix it (and I fixed so many times!).
Good luck to all with your kids. (I will look at your posts now)
Peter

Reinhard1
05-13-2005, 11:40 AM
Anita a really good drawing :clap: May I suggest 2 (3) little things?
First, her chin. In the reference the lowest point of the chin is on our left side and then goes up. In the drawing the tip of the chin is a bit wide.
Secondly our right cheek. Please take away the shadow you have directly after the chin or make it so dark that it becomes background and try to bring the line from the cheekbone down less rounded. You have an ever so slight outward curve making the face there a bit too wide.

Anita Murphy
05-13-2005, 11:42 AM
Reinhard - Thank you - will do that! Thank you for the advice.

Reinhard1
05-13-2005, 11:55 AM
Peter, absolutely adorable. What I can make out in your initial sketch is that you might want to watch out with the mouth. I think to see that it is in the sketch a bit too high (wide open) and not wide enough. I know it's only the sketch state but I know from my very own experience that I tend to stay with the sketch and then start adding the tonal values missing some important points.

Judi1957
05-13-2005, 12:42 PM
Hi all!

JOLANTA- Are you still with us :( ???

Anita, Your daughter is beautiful-like her Mom :) . :clap:
I think her face in the drawing needs to be thined out and chin lengthened. Proportionately-from the inner eye crease (eye on the drawings right) to the bottom of her mouth is equal to the distance from the bottom of her nose to the bottom of her chin in the ref. Also I think the values in the lower lip need to be softened and the bottom lip to be a tad thicker. I would also lower the pupil a tad and brighten the hightlights in her eyes. Fantastic work!

Judi1957
05-13-2005, 01:04 PM
Hi Peter :wave:
I agree with Reinhard about the mouth-
OMGoodness-he is such a doll baby!

cmwynn
05-13-2005, 06:20 PM
Isn't it amazing how things can get distorted between the drawing table and the computer? But now I see that one eye was too large. I have re-done it, measuring carefully, magnifying glass in hand. I have "learned" that there is one eye's distance between eyes, but there is much more in the photo, so I have done that too. Is that right? Any thing else? I do appreciate your looking and commenting, Reinhold.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-May-2005/29839-8_years_v2xm.jpg

Reinhard1
05-13-2005, 06:34 PM
Connie, you are doing great!!!!!!!!! You are right, there is one eye between the eyes - in adults that is - in children, as you saw in the photo, this is different.
I love how you adjusted the size of the eye (darn shadow :evil: :evil: :evil: ).
BTW, did you ever think you could do such great portraits? :clap: :clap: :clap:
p.s. next time we "push the darks" this will bring so much more life to a portrait, believe me, I am learning this as well at this very moment.

Mary Woodul
05-13-2005, 09:20 PM
Hi everyone! :wave: Anita your daughter is just beautiful and the portrait looks good. With Judi's and Reinhard's eyes and help it will be a masterpiece.

Peter, tu nieto es adorable. What a good picture to draw, those eyes are very expressive.

Connie, your little girl is looking very good.

I think I am regretting not just finishing the portrait of my grandson that I had started when we were doing hands.

I took this picture of my four, two days ago and it is not very good. The details are not easy to see and I had a terrible time with the second figure, my youngest grandaughter. I erased it and put in some reference lines to start over again. I wasn't able to erase it all, so I hope it will blend in when I start her over again. I still can't quite get the likeness of my little grandson.

Judi1957
05-13-2005, 09:21 PM
Connie--- :clap: :clap: :clap:
She really looks so soft and alive!

djdedman
05-13-2005, 09:27 PM
I've been away for awhile, came back to see how everyone is doing and what you are presently working on, WOW!
Does this mean when I start the lessons, I will be able to draw like you are? Nah...............................
You guys are Great and came such a ways, I am so impressed with each one.
Just wanted to jump in and compliment you all, really amazing what practice will do, isn't it.
May still be awhile before I can start yet.
Hope yyou don't mind me sharing. We learned hubbys cancer is back, will be going in for surgery again this Tuesday morning. The Dr said definitly will have to go through the chemo treatments all over again. This will be four times he had chemo. Appreciate any prayers.
Hope I haven't offended anyone by sharing.
Keep up the good work everyone.
Hugs
Jackie

Judi1957
05-13-2005, 09:38 PM
JACKIE!!!!!
It is wonderful to hear from you. :clap: :clap: :clap: I am so glad you have asked for prayers-they are sent!
Please keep us up on your husbands health. I am sorry he is going thru this. And how is your son doing? I am praying for you all Jackie and you have a tough job. Love gets us thru so many things-sometimes we wonder how.
Offend-my goodness no-why would that be?!
WE MISS YOU! It has been too long. Try to stop in more often till you get back with us!
hugs to you too!

Judi1957
05-13-2005, 09:49 PM
Hi Mary! :wave:
Really-- I think you are getting your grandson's likeness and it will come out more with the shading. Maybe you can crop each face individually so it will be easier to see the details?
The only thing that jumps out at me with him is he needs more hair on top and the eye on our left needs to be a tad bigger.!
Nice work-beautiful family! :clap:

Oh Connie-I forgot to say maybe you can work a litle more on the shading on her eyelids-----and is that you???? :) So adorable!

llanpe
05-14-2005, 05:42 AM
Mary, eres muy valiente, I am scare with one and you .... FOUR BEAUTIFUL KIDS, good luck, I will be watching.
Peter

llanpe
05-14-2005, 05:46 AM
Jackie, everyone here we wish all the best for you, please let us know (when you can) how things are going.
Regards
Peter

JayD
05-14-2005, 08:04 AM
Jackie, our prayers are with you--please take care and hurry to us. :)

Connie--that is the best thing that I have seen you do--your progress has been phenomenal. :clap: :clap: :clap:

danna23
05-14-2005, 10:00 AM
Hi Everyone...
:wave:

I normally hang out in Colored Pencil. JayD has asked me to post my "Boy in a straw hat" over here for all to see. I can see I'll have to check this forum out more often, tons of excellent advice.

This is my first cp portrait, I have only worked in b/w over the years. The picture is of my son Axel :angel: , I took it last summer when we went on a short cruise to Mexico, he loves this hat. CP forum has made some suggestions and I will be working on this picture this weekend. I would love some advice from all of you. :p

Thanks for everything...
Danna

JayD
05-14-2005, 10:42 AM
Danna, welcome to the class and thanks for agreeing to share you work. CP is a natural medium for drawing children in a variety of styles ranging from the light and ethereal work of Ann Kullberg to the whimsey of Bernard Poulin. Your work exemplies these techniques--this is well done. :)

roger41
05-14-2005, 02:13 PM
Hello everyone, :)
I am going to be working on a complex triple portraiture soon, so for some, practice, and fun :p I found a ref photo of a child about the age of the three I will be rendering. I'm posting what I have done on the drawing so far and the ref photo. I changed her eyes some.. My next step before I do anymore layering of values and details on her face, is to work on the background of the drawing which is a lot different from the background in the ref photo. My goal is to finish everything then come back to her face........then I think I'll have a better understanding of what I need to do to adjust any values and details in her face............thanks for looking...........and your comments and advice are most welcome. :)


Roger.....artist in training :)

Nancy Anthony
05-14-2005, 04:54 PM
Hey Roger ~ I saw this one over at AP...looking very lovely!

Jay D ~ I saw a link to this class over in the CP forum...and since I am currently working on my first newborn I figured it'd be good to post here. It's from a photo that Artcrazy posted to the Reference Library.

Charcoal on white Mi-Tientes paper ~ 9" x 12"
Like I said...it's not quite finished yet.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-May-2005/21221-Purity-7.jpg

JayD
05-14-2005, 05:14 PM
Hi, class--WHERE ARRRRE YOUUUU! :wave: :wave: I have asked some of the other artists from drawing and sketing and cp to post some drawings of children here for you.

PREMISE: The best way to learn is to learn to critique.

Please provide your opinions and feel free to offer suggestion to these artists. They will be grateful for you help but best of all you will be gratified and surprised by yourself at how much you really do know.

Some of you may remember Nancy Anthony as one of our "artist of the week" series of links. I affectionedly refer to her as "that cotton swab girl!" :D

Enjoy and have fun!!!

Jolanta
05-14-2005, 05:15 PM
Hi everybody :wave:
Sorry couldn't come sooner. I am very busy and I wish I could stretch the day or maybe I can sleep only every other night??? :D
I was watching my daughter dancing last night in the real opera. I am so proud of her! She is just as excited about dancing as I am about drawing!

Roger - I am so happy you are posting this WIP. this is the best way to learn to watch somebody doing from the beginning to the end. I see you are almost done with the face and for sure you know what you are doing :clap: but if you would tell us what kind of paper you are using and what kind of pencils and maybe size? It would help a lot. Can you explain your technique? we sure will appreciate it. It is so many diff. ways of doing it - anything helps. :)

Anita - I like what you did but I have a big problem with the band around her hair. It has a wrong shape which is affecting the whole shape of her head. I would just remove it - cover with the hair and add a bit more hair on the top right side of the drawing to balance the head. Her right ear is too close to the eye. Maybe if you lighten the dark shade going down in front of the ear it would look better. The girl has a curly hair yours has straight but this is not an erros just the matter of choice.

Peter - this boy is just perfect for drawing - especially eyes. So be careful. Make them clean looking - you can use mechanical pencil and watercolor pencil or carbon pencil to punch the pupils really dark but only when you are sure they are in the right place.

Connie - you are doing just lovely :clap: You need to bring up her right nostril and bring up some of her right upper corner of her forehead to even up her face shape.

Tip for everybody - when you draw outline of the head look at the outside shape of the head and hair - ignore details at this stage like all these little curves. Too many artists put too little hair or too much at first and this is throwing everything off. Then make sure eyes are on the same level and nose and mouth is aligned at the same angle as eyes - use light lines - then draw the features measuring them and comparing to other features.

Mary - good start :clap: I agree with Judi - little boy needs more hair on the top of his head and make the head wider above the ears. Be careful with the angle of the second girl from the left. I think right now she is tilted too much.

Danna - Nice work :clap: You gave him chinese eyes to go with the hat :evil: . Look at the photo - his eyes outside corners are NOT going up like in your drawing. Here again - his right nostril is too low. You got the mouth pretty good but extend the corners up a bit to widen his smile. The string from the hat on his left side is too far which makes his cheek too full.

Hi Judi - thanks for looking for me. I had just enough time to admire everybodys work but couldn't do much more. I have a hectic week coming - if I will make it through I will survive :eek:
For now enjoy drawing and don't forget to post it.
See you soon all :wave:
Jolanta

Jolanta
05-14-2005, 05:25 PM
Nancy - beautiful and very emotional work. The only thing I would do is lighten the wrinkles on the upper lid of the baby eye. It draws my eye to it too much and I believe it will look better. Mother is showing a lot of feelings - not easy thing to draw - congratulations :clap:
Jolanta

Judi1957
05-14-2005, 05:34 PM
Hi JayD-sorry I haven't posted any more work-haven't progressed anymore than the last post -I had a really busy week-will post tonite-whatever it is :eek: - :angel:

Danna, Roger and Nancy-lovely work!

Jolanta :wave: -Glad you stopped in-missed you! Guess we'll see you when we see you-don't stress out on other things-that is what we are for!

Oh Mary-I looked at your drawing again this morning-the eye I commented on really looks fine-must have been that stress reducing drink I had last evening-LOL :eek:

roger41
05-14-2005, 05:37 PM
Wow Nancy B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L...... :) Drawing

Jolanta....I'm using 2 ply museum board......it has just a slight tooth on one side and fairly smooth on the other....it takes graphite very well...the drawing size is 21"x26". I' posting an update to show a little of the direction i'm going....I thought it might be neat to show some sun rays streaming through a glass vase of water there with her paint brushes in it..and the defussed sunlight that results. Right now I'm blocking in more shadows.....and will blend them out later...I'm using a little graphite powder and ever so lightly with my finger in a piece of tissue, dabbing it on in areas as a base layer and lightly working over it in some areas with a 2b pencil........sort of just feeling my way along at this point, so any advice, critiques, or comments are welcome...I'll post another update in a day or two. :)


Roger...artist in training

JayD
05-14-2005, 05:42 PM
Oh, for you people who just posted to this class--I forgot to tell you about Jo--she is a professional artist who has graciously taken some of her valuable time to contibute to this class--helping to take some of the stress of this large project off of me.

Also, be on the lookout for Reinhard--He has an incredible eye for detail and if he were to move to the dark side and use his super powers for evil, he would make a first class art forger! :D He is THAT good.

Jo--don't sweat it--come in anytime that you can, when you can--we are all EXTREMELY grateful for the time that you have put in here. Rein, the same for you as well. :clap: :clap: :clap:

OH, and lest I forget--While sults is out and about, Judi has been helping along with others in monitoring and helping out newcomers to Basic 101 previous classes. Let's give her a rousing heigh ho, way to go for being instrumental in keeping those threads going!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

beebluefern
05-14-2005, 05:46 PM
I'm working on a cp portrait of a little boy, Portrait of Anthony in the CP Forum.
Here is the thread.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270466

It's ongoing so I will be taking this step by step as it is my first cp portrait. I will try to be as technical as I can and show each step as it is made and I am getting a lot of great help by everyone.
Drop by and have a look! I've attached thumbnails of the ref photo and my final (as of this minute) drawing to be transferred to the cp support.

SILKNSATIN
05-14-2005, 07:07 PM
Wow beautiful work everyone.Gets to the heart. :clap: :clap:
Here's a few i did awhile back of a few of my grandchildren.All done in graphite but one.The baby with the cloth on her head was done with ink and watercolor.

beebluefern
05-14-2005, 07:19 PM
Hey Roger ~ I saw this one over at AP...looking very lovely!

Jay D ~ I saw a link to this class over in the CP forum...and since I am currently working on my first newborn I figured it'd be good to post here. It's from a photo that Artcrazy posted to the Reference Library.

Charcoal on white Mi-Tientes paper ~ 9" x 12"
Like I said...it's not quite finished yet.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-May-2005/21221-Purity-7.jpg

Nancy this is exquisite! I have an eight month old grandaughter and have so many photos of her that I can't choose my favorite to do, but I am going to perhaps do several small ones with a larger in center...just to get all my favs in. What a precious little one with Mom in this drawing.

Jolanta
05-14-2005, 07:58 PM
Hi Pam,
You did a wonderful drawing of a little cute boy but he is NOT the boy from the ref.photo. I am sorry :( You know how to draw the features and you are pretty good at shading but you need to work a bit more on proportions and placements and angles. Since the drawing is so nice I would keep it but to draw the boy from the photo I would start all over. I think I can help you with this. The biggest problem is the tilt of his head and this throws everything off and kills the likeness. Draw vertical line going through the center of his face - through the middle of his mouth, middle of the nose and up. Compare to the edge of the paper. See the angle? For learning experience and to make sure everything will work I would recommend to do his portrait twice as big as the ref.photo. This will help you to measure everything without using grid or any other fancy stuff. Mark the base of the chin and from this point all you have to do is measure and double the distances. Remember the level of the mouth, nose and eyes has to be the same - you can draw long light lines to indicate it and make sure they are pararell to each other and at the right angle. Then measure from the center line to the side of the face and the other side too. Place the hair and after all this draw the features - you know very well how to do it and you will be all done in no time.
Right now his eyes are too close, nose too narrow, mouth turning too high and so on so on.... too much to move around to fix it. It is always better to start all over fresh.
I love the drawing you did but if you go for likeness you will have to do it again - you will be glad you did.
Jolanta

Judi1957
05-14-2005, 08:51 PM
Bon :wave:
Those are lovely grandchildren. LOL what is No 2 crying about. You achieve such a softess to your drawings! :clap: :clap:

Well, I said I would post whatever I got done today so I am. Transfered to bristol smooth and working so far in 2H. Not a lot here but C & C is welcome and appreciated. Looks like I need to fix her left eye on the underside-have the curvature wrong-eye is open a tad too much.

beebluefern
05-14-2005, 09:19 PM
Hi Pam,
You did a wonderful drawing of a little cute boy but he is NOT the boy from the ref.photo. I am sorry :( You know how to draw the features and you are pretty good at shading but you need to work a bit more on proportions and placements and angles. Since the drawing is so nice I would keep it but to draw the boy from the photo I would start all over. I think I can help you with this. The biggest problem is the tilt of his head and this throws everything off and kills the likeness. Draw vertical line going through the center of his face - through the middle of his mouth, middle of the nose and up. Compare to the edge of the paper. See the angle? For learning experience and to make sure everything will work I would recommend to do his portrait twice as big as the ref.photo. This will help you to measure everything without using grid or any other fancy stuff. Mark the base of the chin and from this point all you have to do is measure and double the distances. Remember the level of the mouth, nose and eyes has to be the same - you can draw long light lines to indicate it and make sure they are pararell to each other and at the right angle. Then measure from the center line to the side of the face and the other side too. Place the hair and after all this draw the features - you know very well how to do it and you will be all done in no time.
Right now his eyes are too close, nose too narrow, mouth turning too high and so on so on.... too much to move around to fix it. It is always better to start all over fresh.
I love the drawing you did but if you go for likeness you will have to do it again - you will be glad you did.
Jolanta
You are absolutely right! I appreciate your comments and instruction as well. While I like this drawing very much, you will see in the cp thread that I had a great deal of trouble getting the drawing right and made adjustments to compensate for my lack of skill. However, I do like the ref pic pose so much that I am going to give it another try and see if I can't make it look better. That's what WC is all about and I do thank you for your help. :D

Jolanta
05-14-2005, 09:35 PM
Hi Judi,
Very good :clap: Just make sure eyes are dark enough. I don't know how you can work so hard with overtime and still make time to draw so good :clap: I will be watching and admiring. See you :wave:
Jolanta

Jolanta
05-14-2005, 09:47 PM
Hi Pam,
I am glad you are going to try again. Believe me tilted poses are very difficult to do because you have to tilt the head and all the features to go with it. I know you can do it - just go slow and check and recheck everything and show us the placements. Don't do any shading until you are sure everything is in the right place. If you do the initial light outline drawing right you will see the likeness right away.
See you :wave:
Jolanta

sultry
05-14-2005, 10:35 PM
Hi everyone :wave:
Just letting you know I thought all of you did wonderful sp & your children renderings are looking great. Sorry for not being around as much but due to personal reasons I have hit a huge block and cannot seem to draw anything. When it comes back, I know it will, I will be posting again. hugs to you all and JayD I really liked your words on kids.

Cathie Jones
05-15-2005, 09:17 AM
Hi Sults!! :wave: Hope you're feeling better soon . . . we really miss you!!!!

Well, I've posted my sp in lesson 18 and am ready to start this class today. Maybe I can finally get caught up!! I used a grid for the sp, and will here, too, and am very excited that I've found a way to do this.

And I'm glad to be back with my classmates - it was awful being left behind! :D

Judi1957
05-15-2005, 12:02 PM
Hey All :wave:

I'd call this a FIVE STAR thread! :clap: :clap: :clap:
:wink2: hint :wink2: hint :wink2:

Mary Woodul
05-15-2005, 03:44 PM
Beautiful work being displayed in this thread. :clap: :clap: :clap:

CJ, how do you make a grid?...please!!!!!! (do you have a down on your knees) icon?

Sults, we are rooting for you, please take care.

Judi, you have got that incredible expression in your child's portrait.

Jolanta, I see now, that the head's width is what is missing in the likeness of my grandson's portrait. That photograph is so bad I can't see the details of the eyes so I have decide to finish the one I had started at the end, when we were doing the hands. I'm posting it just as it was when I quit working on it and it is still the same so I will post it in case there is something I should correct before going on. JayD, had suggested that I do in cp, but after the graphite I will try with cp, once I have learned to blend cp.

Have a nice Sunday :wave:

Reinhard1
05-15-2005, 04:10 PM
Mary, making a grid is ever so easy, but time consuming, and you have to measure VERY accurately.

I take it that we have the metric system in Mexico (if I recall correctly). Draw a rectangle in the size you want your drawing. Then measure ( I did in 1 cm intervalls) the width and the length in cm, make a dot on both sides and conncect these dots, and there you are. Name one side in alphabetical order and the other in numerical so you can easily address each square by letter and number (A1, 12 K, ....)

Recommendation: Draw the grid very lightly (2B and up) so the grid will be easier to erase once you have the initial outline drawn.

Do the same thing either directly on a printout of the reference photo or, easier IMHO, use an acetate (jacket) where you can then later put the reference in, and make the same grid with a very fine marker and there you are.

Then you start on square A1 and cotinue to the end of the drawing and transfer the lines you see in the reference to the drawing. A caveat, you might get lost in the maze, be very careful.

Looking at the excellent sketch :clap: :clap: I doubt that this might is the best way for what you wanted to achieve. You are WAY BEYOND the stage where you need a grid :D :wave: !!!!!!!!!

There is one thing I have to add. I AM NOT AGAINST GRIDDING IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. It is a very valuable tool and many artists use it. Even very achieved ones, see Matti Kataja's comment in my post in class 18. This is the reason why I printed need in bold. I have been, and still am, a very ardent defender of it. It has helped me tremendously to get where I am (wherever that might be). I am experimenting now with freehand and having fun with it. Better? I don't know. Different, yes. It requires much more close observation of what I do from the very beginning. This needed to be said that we don't open the "grid vs freehand" bag of worms again.

I recommend to try transparent paper, lay it over the reference and 'trace' the outlines. Then, when you draw you can lay the traced reference over the first line drawing and you'll see where you need to change.

Recommendation: Make marks on the reference, the tracing, and the drawing in the same spots so you can easily place the tracing over it when you compare. It happened too often to me the I then moved the tracing to get i.e. the eyes right and was completely off with the mouth, etc. This is the low-tech version of overlaying the drawing and the reference.

Best yet, at least try it before you go grid and company, measure, measure, measure........ This is, IMHO, a better way to make sure you take everything in the drawing in and not just a little line.

Betty Edwards would say, you get a better feeling of the "gestalt" of the drawing. Gestalt, at least as I understand it, the whole and all components in relation to each other.

Whatever you do, have fun while doing it. :wave:

JayD
05-15-2005, 04:45 PM
An excellent explanation, Rein. Thanks!

By the way, you should still pop in for the next class--grids WILL be allowed.

Reinhard1
05-15-2005, 04:53 PM
ROFLMAO :D :D :D :D :D :evil:

Mary Woodul
05-15-2005, 06:03 PM
Thank you so much Reinhard, as JayD says, it is an excellent explanation and I think I will use your tracing paper method better and have the grid technique just in case. It is just that with the portraits it is incredible that if you are a millimeter off, the likeness is never achieved. You can be a little off with a vase, or a flower and it is still a vase and a flower but if you are off with (fulanito de tal) so and so, it is not so and so. :D :wave: Thanks!

Reinhard1
05-15-2005, 06:10 PM
Mary, I adore your avatar :wave: :wave: :wave:

JayD
05-15-2005, 08:28 PM
Mary, love the avatar--the portrait is coming along nicely--make note to check the thumbs to make sure they are proportioned correctly. That is a very inteesting pose.

danna23
05-15-2005, 09:05 PM
Hey everyone... I've been following the thread. There are some wonderful pieces of art here, and some amazing advice. Thought I would post my finished picture. The straw hat was a lot of fun to do. I was afraid to go from pencil to colored pencil, but the switch has been fun.

Thanks for the advice... I'll be back.

Danna

beebluefern
05-15-2005, 09:25 PM
I'll say it again Danna...he's such a cute little guy and you have done a great job on this! Well done...you should be very proud of yourself for taking the big step and going with something new! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Mary Woodul
05-15-2005, 10:18 PM
Thank you Reinhard and JayD. :D I checked with the tracing paper method and saw I had a lot of this out of place. I have worked on it a little more. Hope I corrected the thumbs. The fingers of his left hand look odd to me.

Danna, your portrait is very nice and done with cp, tome seems extra hard. :clap:

Cathie Jones
05-15-2005, 10:24 PM
Actually, what I did was print a grid on plain paper, and one on my reference photo (same size grid, naturally). My drawing paper is thin enough that I could put the plain paper grid behind my drawing sheet and I didn't have to draw lines on it - just marked a few 'dots' for matching up the grid from one use to the next. On heavier paper, you do have to measure and mark on the paper, but very lightly so it can be easily erased.

JayD, are you not speaking to me anymore? And what do you mean by grids being allowed in the next lesson? You said it was okay in the last one. Am I not following the rules?

JayD
05-16-2005, 06:49 AM
Hi, CJ--all tools are fair game at this point. I was ribbing Reinhard about grids. :D He is right though--you can now use grids because you can if you want to and NOT because it is the only way you can draw. You ALL have made tremendous strides forward. I apologize for ignoring you--the world has become unpleasantly busy lately. :(

I will try to be a bit more animated. :D

Fireman's kid
05-16-2005, 11:00 AM
Hi! :wave:

I have really missed posting on the class threads. Things here have been very busy and hectic. But I hate being left behind especially when everyone else is producing such fantastic drawings! :envy: :)

There are lots of adorable kids and beautiful babies here - not to mention talent!

I started my drawing last Monday and was trying to wait until I had made some corrections to post. But I want to work on it again tonight so I thought it was time to get it up here. Now that I see everyone else is doing faces only drawings, I am wondering why I was crazy and chose a full body pose?!? And a tough one at that. :rolleyes:

The reference is a picture of my daughter Abigail from the beach last year. She and her sister spent hours at the waters edge on their "boogie boards". So far I have only sketched in the outline. I darkened the lines in Photoshop so you could actually see them. The changes I know I need to make are...
1. shorten the front leg
2. make the back foot larger
3. add her right arm
4. fix the bottom band of her bathing suit top so it curves more
5. fix the top of her head/ hairline

One thing I am not sure about is her pose. Is she still leaning back too far? I've fixed it once or twice already, but am not sure it is right yet.

Is there anything else off that needs to be worked on? I really love this photo and am anxious to do a good job on the drawing. I'm not at all sure I can pull it off. :o

Mary Woodul
05-16-2005, 11:15 AM
Oh Stacey you have such a darling little girl and I am sure you will do well with her portrait. Your outline to me looks good, but I'm sure, Judi, Jolanta, Reinhard and JayD will check and tell you for sure. :D

Cathie Jones
05-16-2005, 12:11 PM
Mary - I should have added to the grid explanation - using a grid won't teach you how to do a portrait properly . . . it only transfers the image accurately from a photo to drawing paper - I wouldn't use one if I was interested in doing portraits.

My interest is in still life and landscapes - and thanks to JayD and this class, I can do those without a grid.

Mary Woodul
05-16-2005, 12:17 PM
Thank you CJ. I thought it would be easier to get everything very accurate but even that way I seem to get off so last night I started measuring the important features to get the right size and distance. I had always done everything freehand but when we started with the portraits I couldn't get the likeness that way. :D You are right though, I see a great improvement in what I have done also with JayD's class and his suggestions. :D

Reinhard1
05-16-2005, 12:23 PM
Stacy, good sketch. May I add to your list, please? First, the left (her right) shoulder is too prominently out, bring that back a bit. Second, I think to see that you gave her a bit too much left (her right) cheek. This could look disproportionate when finishing, and third, I think the chin is too pointed at this stage.
Looking forward to see more.

JayD
05-16-2005, 12:28 PM
Hi, guys--I just went out to my mail box and low and behold there was Matti's book--Advanced Drawing Techniques. Reinhard, I did not know that it was printed in a limited edition and signed by the author. You were right it's a great book and I will be reviewing it shortly. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Judi1957
05-16-2005, 12:30 PM
Ohhhh JayD :wave:
-Where did you order the book????
-I gotta have it! :D

Reinhard1
05-16-2005, 12:36 PM
JayD, glad that you received the book. What number is your copy? Mine is 85.
Judi, I posted the address in "class 18". I think it its "http://www.mattikataja.com". I will check it out.
P.s. Yes it is, I just was there, wait a while until the complete page loads.

JayD
05-16-2005, 12:36 PM
head over to class 19--Reinhard has a bookstand set up over there. :D He has posted a link to Matti's site and you can order there through Paypal. :)

Judi1957
05-16-2005, 12:41 PM
Dah! Right here under my nose-ha-ha-must have been why I didn't see it!
Thanks JayD and Reinhard!

roger41
05-16-2005, 12:44 PM
Hello guys,
here is an update on my drawing.....still developing the background, and adjusting values so that everything doesn't just sort of blend together. :p
thanks for looking............God bless



Roger

Nancy Anthony
05-16-2005, 12:44 PM
Wow ~ This has been a very informative thread! Everyone is doing such a fine job! I really admire those of you who are currently stepping out of your comfort zone for this one.

Reinhard1
05-16-2005, 12:57 PM
OMG Roger, stunning :clap: :clap: :clap:

JayD
05-16-2005, 01:25 PM
Nancy, Comfort Zone--heh heh heh :evil: You aint seen nothin yet. :evil:

Reinhard--copy number 135 so the books are counting down.

Cathi--I am feeling really stupid right now--I am looking for your drawing but I cant seem to locate it--Am I on the wrong thread? :D

Staci--when you do your working drawing do like you do with those fabulous water colors of yours--keep the lines soft and simple. And take your time to savor the shapes--dont be in a hurry to get in the details. The details will work themselves in. Re-examine the afrea where the crotch and the legs meet--check the proportions. Looks really good so far.

Reinhard1
05-16-2005, 01:31 PM
Speaking of C&C. Guys, I see it over and over again, that people say someting like "... great drawing and we wait what the "critique team" has to say..." or something similar. I invite all of you to participate in the 'critique' part of C&C. Why? Simple, we all learn. The poster learns more from more people looking at her/his work AND we all learn from critiquing. Don't they say in drawing: "See what you draw and draw what you see" ? And don't we all learn that more than not we draw what we "think" to see but what's not really there? By critiquing we all concentrate on what we see and this will help us then later in our drawings.
Just a quick thought of mine. Your comments on this will be interesting to read. :wave: :wave: :evil:

Cathie Jones
05-16-2005, 01:44 PM
Cathi--I am feeling really stupid right now--I am looking for your drawing but I cant seem to locate it--Am I on the wrong thread? :D



Sorry, JayD - it's here (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3527865&postcount=351) in Lesson 18. I haven't started 19 yet - planned to do it yesterday but we had to go to L.A. instead.

JayD
05-16-2005, 03:15 PM
Cathie--would you mind reposting the drawing along side your reference. I have a few comments but I want to check them against the photo. thanks! :)

Mary Woodul
05-16-2005, 04:07 PM
JayD, glad that you received the book. What number is your copy? Mine is 85.
Judi, I posted the address in "class 18". I think it its "http://www.mattikataja.com". I will check it out.
P.s. Yes it is, I just was there, wait a while until the complete page loads.

I ordered mine the day I saw your link Reinhard and got a confirmation right away. Mine might take a little longer down here and thank you for that link, his work is outstanding.

BTW, your right about the critiquing, I was one that shyed away but will try to observe and say what I see next time. :D :wave:

cmwynn
05-16-2005, 04:22 PM
I sent a long post this morning and now it has disappeared. I wonder where things go when they do that? I am including the thumbnails of the drawings I have done of my grandson for the last 8 months, his current photo and the drawing I am doing for this lesson. I have measured, etc, etc, and know it is wrong, but still can't see how. I have used an ebony pencil on his hair and eyes and lots of black all around, but it still isn't as dark as the photo. And he had his first haircut yesterday!
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-May-2005/29839-T_1_thru_8xm.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-May-2005/29839-Thomasgxm_.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-May-2005/29839-Thomas_v4xm.jpg

Mary Woodul
05-16-2005, 04:31 PM
Hi Connie, what a lovely gallery you have of your grandson. He is an adorable child with huge eyes. What I see in the drawing is that his face needs to be a little broader. His eyes in the drawing seem smaller and the eye ball needs to be rounded and darkened. The bottom lip think needs to be fuller. Besides that I think your doing very well Connie and you have your own particular style. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Fireman's kid
05-16-2005, 06:09 PM
Connie, my art class started 2 minutes ago and I haven't left the house yet, but I had to take a minute to say WOW!!! Do you see how much your drawings have improved over the last several months? It is incredible! That's the type of improvement I am waiting to see in my own work so I am a tad bit :envy: . :D

Two quick comments on your drawing. I think you drew the bottom part of his nose too small both in how wide and how tall (?) it is. And I agree that his eyes need to be rounder, especially his left (our right) eye. In the reference they are almost perfect circles.

I bet that if he bats those big, handsome eyes at you you will do anything he wants. Most Grandmom's are that way. ;)

Okay, I really gotta go! Hope to post an update tonight. Also have to make a note to check out that book before all of the copies are sold out. So much to do so little time. :D

Thanks to everyone who critiqued my "outline". I wrote down the suggestions and am taking them with me.

Reinhard1
05-16-2005, 06:19 PM
For goodness Connie, you are good :clap: What I see that needs attention is, besides to what Mary already wrote, the right eye (his left) sits too high. If you still can, bring this down. When you draw a line through his mouth and one through his eyes, these lines should be parallel. I'm afraid they aren't. Next thing. Ithink that the left (his right ) cheek is at the lowest part a tad too wide out (could be the shading as well) and he needs a little bit more on the other side (rigth - his left). Before I make any furhter comments, and these changes can only be minor, I would like to see these changes applied. But even if you left the drawing as is, it is great and there is a very good likeness there already.
BTW did I mention that you are good and getting better with every drawing? :clap: :clap: :wave: :wave:

Judi1957
05-16-2005, 07:27 PM
Connie!
I do believe you are the star of the show tonight-
PLEASE TAKE A BOW!!!!
I believe your progress since Class 1 is absolutley astounding!!!!
So all I have to say is :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

sultry
05-16-2005, 08:11 PM
Everyone is doing a wonderful job on the children & Connie I agree with Judi you should take a bow gf your baby portrait is adorable and it shows so much contrast that gives so much depth. I love it.
Hey guys, I am still wrestling with my sp but I want to show you the ref pic I plan to do when I get done with my sp ( I might start it and do 2 at a time).
This is my now 27 year old daughter back when I managed the cattle ranch for my dad yearss ago. She is riding Black who was the best babysitter she ever had lol. I was always on a horse along with her father either checking the fence for holes or sick cattle or lost cattle. So, she would be astride her trusty steed and always slowly trotting behind me with our 6 dogs watching over her so carefully.
The life was great out there, we had only one radio station that would get all country western all week, on the weekends only church. We ordered a pool table from Sears & Roebuck that my ex and I assembled ourselves (took 3 mths) and then I learned to cut throat pretty well. lol
When we sold our cattle because meat went down in price, we rode them from the ranch to the auction which was a good 12 miles in the cold snow. I will tell you this, my lil sweet girl rode in a toasty warm Ford pick up behind with hot chocolate & grandpa keeping an eye on us. :cat:

Mary Woodul
05-16-2005, 09:09 PM
Hi Sultry, so good to see you around. That picture is beautiful and she looks so tiny. How old was she? She must ride like an Amazon. You probably do too. It is going to make a great portrait. I've got to back and see you sp. :D

Hi Judi! :wave:

JayD
05-16-2005, 11:35 PM
Connie, I do believe that we are looking at two histories: one for the child and one for your progress as an artist. These moments are treasures not just for the emotional value but for the technical balance that you are now presenting. Judi is right-- you are the start tonight! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Sults-excellent choice--we dont need to see the face--just the moment. Very challenging but it will be very rewarding--your story will add value to the picture.

sultry
05-17-2005, 09:21 AM
Hi Mary & Jay :wave:
Mary its good to be around here again :), I am trying to remember her age I think she was 3 (she learned to ride b4 she walked). lol
I have another pic since Jay says the face is not important as much as the moment is. My dad taught her to stand on her Black and she used to love to do it alot (especially for pictures). I just wish I could find one I took close up of her because that one has so much detail and contrast for a good graphite drawing. Anyways, I did find this one of us standing at the gate. If I can find the other one of her standing I may do that one instead. (It also has her face alot clearer).

Anita Murphy
05-17-2005, 10:04 AM
Connie - super drawings! What a lovely way to mark his growth with new drawings - so much more personal than photos! What an heirloom!

Reinhard - you are so right about critiquing and that we should say more than just great job. Personally I don't feel that I have the experience in drawing yet, especially in portraits to make judgment calls. Give me a landscape and I'll critique you seriously!!!! :D It makes such a difference to get serious critiques though that to those of you that are so good of them - thank you SO much!!!! You cannot believe what a help you are.

As to this book you are all raving about - too new to know Matti - I can't find it - all I get is a shot of the cover but no way to order - HELP!!!!!

Reinhard1
05-17-2005, 10:40 AM
Anita, 2 things. First. Matti writes as his contact on the site: "[email protected]", you might want to contact him there.
Second, critiquing. I know how you feel about giving c&c in a field where we don't feel too secure. And this is just where we should give c&c because we then look very close. You see somthing, or you think you see something, you comment about it. Who says that only the real masters can critique? Then I wouldn't be doing it neither but I learned from critiqiong how to look, and look, and look again. Observational skills that's what it is all about. Sometimes I find something and I say it. It happened rather recently that I observed things which just weren't there, so? I thought I saw and therefore I comented. Please do that as well because many eyes see more things and when observing we learn (I think I said that more than once already, sorry :D )

Judi1957
05-17-2005, 12:23 PM
Hey Anita,
I just got a response on Matti's book and he is going to be away for 2 weeks and will get back to me then-but no promises on the book for sure. :(
You should write as Reinhard suggested as I do not know how may for sure he has left. Crossing my fingers!

Edit: I pm'd you his e-mail address.

Mary Woodul
05-17-2005, 01:03 PM
Sults, that is a great picture and I hope you will find the one where she is standing and her face is clearer. It would make a wonderful portrait.

Hi :wave: , Anita, Reinhard and Judi.

Judi1957
05-17-2005, 07:18 PM
Evening All :wave:

Hi Mary :wave: How are the grandkids drawing coming?

Posting Stage 2. The hair may drive me mad-but really-just pulled out the ebony pencils and I like them much for doing the hair-so I a have a bit to go back over and finish-as well as every where. Hopefully will finish her hair tonight then get back to fixing her teeth, etc and adding more darks all around, well, maybe I am not quite at stage 2 :rolleyes: .
C & C welcome and appreciated.

Mary Woodul
05-17-2005, 07:29 PM
She is just beautiful Judi, the smile captures the viewer. I think you are doing good on her hair.

I have been working on Patricio but I am not satisfied with his expression because he just has a hint of a smile but the eye in my drawing as it is today, does not give it the right expression. I'll work a little more on it and post it tonight.

Judi, do you know where Dave, Vasil, Deb, Ann and several others are? :confused:

I'll send you a PM with a picture of who the little girl looks so much like, in her smile. :wave:

Fireman's kid
05-17-2005, 07:51 PM
Hey Sults, I can't believe how little your daughter was when she learned to ride and to stand up on a horse! I tell you, kids have no fear! It looks like she was really a cutie too. I'm sure she got lots of attention! :)

Judi, your drawing is adorable! I think you are doing great with the hair. The combination of those ringlets with that smile just make the picture. Makes me want to pinch those checks! :p

Hi Mary! :wave:

Hi Anita and Royal Rein! :wave: Thank you both for reminding me to check out that book. I swear some days my brain is like a sieve. And I'm too young to be this forgetful! :eek:

I'll be back later with my update...

Judi1957
05-17-2005, 07:59 PM
Hi Mary :wave: Thanks :) Keep going on Patricio-anxious to see him.
I saw Dave and Blah earlier today-but apparently they didn't stop in. We are missing Jolanta too! :( :(
Guess i'll have to do some pming and round up the crew.

Hi Stacey :wave: Thanks :) Please don't pinch her cheeks-you'll wrinkle the paper! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Fireman's kid
05-17-2005, 08:20 PM
Judi - you're too funny! :D

Okay, here is my update. Unfortunately I didn't get much done last night. :( This is slow work. I did make the suggested changes, cleaned up some of my lines, drew in her hand and foot and started work on her face. I found that I need to print a larger reference of her face in order to see the shapes clearly, or maybe work from the computer monitor.

I just noticed that her thumb is too long. I'll fix that next time. Her other fingers look long too, but they also look long in the reference, so I'm not sure if they are too big.

Next step is getting the face shapes in. Wish me luck! :wink2:

JayD
05-17-2005, 08:26 PM
Staci, re-examine the hand. She should be putting her weight on the palm of he hand--she seems to be leaning on her wrist. Nice work on the figure--you are doing really well with this.

djdedman
05-17-2005, 08:50 PM
Hi All :wave:
Just a short update and thanks for all prayers and good wishes.
Hubby had surgery this morning, Dr said he thinks he got all the cancer. He will have to take the chemo treatment again tho.
Been a long day, going to kaflop now. :D
Again, thanks.
Jackie

Judi1957
05-17-2005, 09:17 PM
Hi Jackie :wave:
I am so glad, the report is great. Will continue to pray for you all!
Take care of yourself too. We miss you here! Thanks for keeping us informed on your Hubby.

Fireman's kid
05-17-2005, 09:50 PM
Jackie, sorry to hear about your husband. My thoughts are with you and I'm wishing for the best.

JayD, after reading your comment I looked long and hard at my drawing and came to the conclusion that I still had Abigail leaning too far back. So I struggled with Photoshop and finally figured out how to do a layering thing (not sure I will remember the next time :rolleyes: ). Turns out, everything is off. :( Now I'm frustrated with both my computing skills and my drawing skills. I'll try to post the overlay, but I'm not sure it is the right size. Tomorrow I will have to start over. :crying:

JayD
05-17-2005, 10:06 PM
Ok, guys teacher guy is back--staci has something here that I want to comment upon. To quit this piece or make what you have done work to your advantage. Either way is fine but a reference photo is just that--not to copy--to REFER to--a mini guide to keep you on path.

Your drawing, Staci is not bad as it is--yes the angle is different but you do have a charming sketch. You can use the reference to add the little details in and have an original imagined work or you could start over and be exact. It really is your call but for my two cents--what you have already done is not a losing proposition. :)

Mary Woodul
05-17-2005, 10:09 PM
Wow Stacey, your so smart, I can't figure those layers out yet. She looked right to me, but you well get her in the right position and I'm dying to you draw her face.

Jackie, my prayers and thoughts are with you.

Fireman's kid
05-17-2005, 11:25 PM
I see what you are saying Jay. And I thank you for your kind words. If I was further along in my skills/learning I might keep going with this sketch. But I'm trying to do what Reinhard has so successfully done - learn to see accurately and reproduce what I see. I feel once I can do that well, then I can decide when to reproduce it and when to change it.

I'm just soooo frustrated tonight because I was trying to reproduce this accurately and now I see that every part of it is off. I have no confidence in starting over and getting it right and there is too much to change to keep going. And unlike CJ and some others, I actually do want to learn how to draw people, especially my kids. If I can't even get the body sketched in right, what are the chances that I'll be able to acheive a likeness in the face. Let me answer that...slim to none.

I honestly feel like I am the only one not improving. I'm ready to sharpen all of my pencils down to nubs and throw them away.

Well, enough whining for one night. I'm off to bed. Maybe I'll have a better attitude in the morning.

By the way Mary, the layer thing was dumb luck and I'm sure the next time will be just as much of a struggle.

G'night all.

vasilkadifeli
05-18-2005, 12:23 AM
...Judi, do you know where Dave, Vasil, Deb, Ann and several others are? :confused:...

Hey :wave: I am here... just posted my excuse in class 18th... here is the link to my post : http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3537228&postcount=383

You all did so great in class 18 and I will try to go thru class 19... BTW I've seen Dave a few times in the watercolor forum...

vasilkadifeli
05-18-2005, 12:30 AM
Hi All :wave:
Just a short update and thanks for all prayers and good wishes.
Hubby had surgery this morning, Dr said he thinks he got all the cancer. He will have to take the chemo treatment again tho.
Been a long day, going to kaflop now. :D
Again, thanks.
Jackie

Jackie I know about your husband's surgery from the wc forum... I am sorry to hear about the chemo... I'm wishing the quickest possible recovery for him and the best for both of you... my thoughts and prayers are with you...

djdedman
05-18-2005, 12:37 AM
Thanks Vasil, so nice having friends at WetCanvas.
Jackie

beebluefern
05-18-2005, 05:37 AM
I see what you are saying Jay. And I thank you for your kind words. If I was further along in my skills/learning I might keep going with this sketch. But I'm trying to do what Reinhard has so successfully done - learn to see accurately and reproduce what I see. I feel once I can do that well, then I can decide when to reproduce it and when to change it.

I'm just soooo frustrated tonight because I was trying to reproduce this accurately and now I see that every part of it is off. I have no confidence in starting over and getting it right and there is too much to change to keep going. And unlike CJ and some others, I actually do want to learn how to draw people, especially my kids. If I can't even get the body sketched in right, what are the chances that I'll be able to acheive a likeness in the face. Let me answer that...slim to none.

I honestly feel like I am the only one not improving. I'm ready to sharpen all of my pencils down to nubs and throw them away.

Well, enough whining for one night. I'm off to bed. Maybe I'll have a better attitude in the morning.

By the way Mary, the layer thing was dumb luck and I'm sure the next time will be just as much of a struggle.

G'night all.

Please don't give up on this! You're nearly there and I know you'll be able to do this. It's going to be a lovely portrait of your child. I have a similar problem with one I want to to do in cp...you can see my post in pages prior to yours-post #81. I've still not gotten the angle of the head just right and it is frustrating but I want to do it just as the pose shows. I think we really learn by doing and doing over and over again. Some people seem to "get it right" every time...they've made their mistakes and are still making them-everyone does. Get a fresh start today and tackle it bit by bit! Wishing you much success!

JayD
05-18-2005, 06:58 AM
Staci, its your call but I suspect, after much thought, that maybe you should start fresh--when I do Jennifer, I start over because I suspect that the subject is too close to me.

NOW--young lady--regarding your drawing skills--you are further along--just go back and look at your body of work--the progress is there--I still think about that house where you corrected the drawing with the perspective--you are allowed to be frustrated but dont knock yourself--nine out of 10 shelties agree trhat you are very good. :D

cmwynn
05-18-2005, 10:14 AM
Staci - I know this is something you want to do and therefore should. It is frustrating, I know, but in the long run you will be glad you stuck with it, either going on with this version or starting over. After all, it's just paper (where have I heard that before?) Could you have done even this much last year? I couldn't, even though I am struggling here.

I have revised, again, but still see a worried look in the drawing that just isn't there. I am beginning to see a likeness, but that might just be familiarity with the drawing from so many hours of working on it. So, HELP!
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-May-2005/29839-Thomasgxm_.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-May-2005/29839-Thomas_v6xm.jpg

SILKNSATIN
05-18-2005, 10:15 AM
Wow took me forever to look at every page in here but was well worth it.You all are doing an awesome job. :clap:
Well I found this little big eyed girl in the reference lib.Didn't have who posted it.So I thought I'd give her a try.Started out with her eyes and nose first then went down to the mouth.I moslty start with the shape of the face but sometimes I challenge myself to start with eyes.Then after I got the sheape of the face I then started the blending of the skin.Didn't do well on the hair though.9x12 done with 4b and 8b pencils.

sultry
05-18-2005, 10:21 AM
Hiyas Jackie :wave: My heart goes out to you & yours and I can only say that a smile heals a billions seconds to keeping yourself positive in all your experiencing (you are his rock as he is yours). Be assured that positive breeds healing moments. Your being there for him and keeping both your spirits high, never let worry or stress eat away your happiness.
I am praying your hubby will go on to even more wonderous recovery, the heart of a loving woman or man by yourside can mean so much, so Jackie your the one of the reasons all signs look good.

Judi, Your work has improved soooo much lately (even if you can't see it, we can gf). The teeth, the lips the hair WoW~~~~KAV on it all~~~
I still think your lil girl looks just like a Shirley Temple rendering when I see it in a icon status (avator size). I have always wanted a ST doll and wanted to sketch her. I also, want to sketch Cher someday too. lol Well after seeing RR do a great impression of Armin an original, I have determination to do it. Hugs RR I am so darnnnnn proud of you. :)

Hiyassss Vasil where is your sp and your lil child pic we miss ya.

Hey Blah I see you lurking in D/s are you coming back to class? We miss ya.

Mary, I am sorry, I love how your rendering of your grandchild is coming along you too, have improved lately too. If your still having trouble with the hand, try sketching it on a separate paper. Trace the drawing you have and then lay that over the hand, you can keep altering it with out disturbing your actual drawing.
I think your seeing alot more and applying it as you see it now and it shows. I just know you have to do you on the trike. OH, I cannot find the pic of my Nimes standing close up but I will do some computer things to bring it closer with this one and look for another picture that shows her face better. Mix the 2 or 3 of them of her ( I read somewhere Armins uses more than one photo and a mirror to get his portraits done).

Stacy if this is any help, let me tell you this. I have hit that rode block more than once since I started this 101 course. I have tried to draw my daughter Natalie more than 7 times and was so upset that it was not her staring back at me. I then would draw something else and guess what? I drew?
I did a big turn around and rendered something I never thought could, look at Carmelo in my signature, the muse, the hand & foot & my hand. Then just recently, I hit a huge block again, I could not get my sp for the life of me to look right. I finally due to personal reasons I was forced to take a few days away from everything (computer & work). After awhile, I picked up the pencil and started to doodle simple things and practiced my strokes (not drawing a thing). It gave me confidence to start my sp again. I decided to listen to Carmelo and find a different sp too (I am not saying for you to find a different pic) I just know for me, I found an easier one and later on I will move to harder ones. We can put too much concentration into something till it is not fun to do anymore and IMO, that is why we draw because it is fun. If it is not fun, we lose the drive and gumption. The artist who renders works of art enjoyed doing that piece. Go back and read what RR said when he did Armins son. Do not let this block break you gf, let it make you stronger and grow from it. I know you can, I see so much improvement in your work too. We all are different and we all improve in our own levels and times. Go back and look at the class and see, you will see improvement from all of us all of a sudden. Rem CJ when she rendered that llama? Connie's grandson? and sooo many more.

ok I shut up now (inserts smiley zipping her GABBY mouth) ohh wait, Hey Jolanta WHERE ARE YOU???? WE MISS YOU TOO.

GF if that is not enough, then look at our sweet RR (Royal Rein), remember a thread awhile back he started that he wanted to know if any of us get a block. Remember how much he tried to draw Regina and the other Gisele (sorry RR I cannot remember her name). What I want you to realize, is this, When we hit blocks in our art, it is us trying to hard. I believe our hands will catch up with our eyes only when it wants to. We can not determine it, we can only help it along with practice.
edited to add... Bon sorry I was xposting, this looks adorable and ty for the WIP.

Anita Murphy
05-18-2005, 10:41 AM
Stacy - keep going girl! You can do it!!!!! A hurdle is just a higher step - take a bigger pace and you will get over it! (Says she who is unable to put pencil to paper at the moment). The picture is so cute and I know that you will do a wonderful job. Cheering for you - can you hear - or do you have the volume turned down? Waiting to see the next installment.

Connie - I've been looking at your picture - you are right there is something not quite right. The chin on the left side (our left) there is too much of a sharp line to the cheek - its more gradual. And I think the chin should be a little deeper, especially on the right side. The shadow on the right side of the face is deeper and makes his cheek look narrower than you have it. The bottom lip should not be such a steep drop from the corner to the bottom of the lip - its a shallower slope and the highlight goes slightly further under the lip on the left side. The right eye is not quite the right shape - you have it sloping much further to the right on the left side and it should be almost vertical with the slope more on the right side of the eye. It is so close to being right. Hope these points help you. I find it really hard to critique like this but know that when others do it for me it is so helpful. Keep going Connie - Its going to be great!!!!!!!!!

Mary Woodul
05-18-2005, 10:48 AM
Hey Vasil, nice to see you around, you were missed. :D

Bon, your children are supurb as always. :clap: :clap:

Connie, I really think you almost have it, it is just his left eye that I think needs to be rounded. He is looking just as cute as in the photo.

Hiyas Sults, so glad to see you around. I think you can enlarge the photo with photoshop. I did that with the one of me on the trike and that photo is really old.

I'm having trouble with gaze my grandson has in the picture which is really what I would love to capture. I took a close up of both so you all can see. I just don't know what it is that I can't seem to get.

Anita Murphy
05-18-2005, 11:00 AM
Hola Mary
I've been looking at your picture - today must be my critique day!
The mouth is too wide. I drew lines from the corner of his mouth vertically and it came to almost the corner of his eye - in your picture it comes halfway across the iris. Also his ear is a little high. Where his ear joins his face it should be level with the top of his nostril. I think the eye is a little wide too, but only a fraction. The distance to his eyebrow is also too high - its much less in the photo and his eyebrow is almost straight. The iris is too round on the right side. at the top and not round enough at the bottom on the left. If you make the eye smaller - his face should also then be narrower as it is about an eye distance to the side of his face. Check the angle of the side of his jawline too - its slightly off and slightly too long from the ear to where the jaw bends (does that make sense?) Don't forget the highlight on the tip of his nose!
He's such a good-looking boy! Que guapo!

sultry
05-18-2005, 11:00 AM
Hi Mary, this is where you take apart the eye in geo shapes. Look at the iris in the ref pic see how the curve is right in the middle where you have it a little too low on your rendering? Look at the whites of the eye it is wider on bottom than on top in ref pic. It is sideways triangle but it is also stretched out. Remember to sketch the geo shape of the shadow from under the lid, all of this plays into making that same stare he has. I will send you a diagram but not till after I go pick up prescriptions for Carmelo and I, if you want me to. Let me know ok? He looks so cute btw. :)

bjcpaints
05-18-2005, 11:11 AM
I honestly feel like I am the only one not improving. I'm ready to sharpen all of my pencils down to nubs and throw them away.


No, no, no Stacey - this is just not true! You are here trying and I am so far behind and doing terrible at the older lessons! I haven't even reached the point you are at - so you just adjust that attitude! Start over on a better day. You will be so happy you did. Is that a good enough pep talk?!? :D
Barbara (who lurks because she is too far behind to participate)

Reinhard1
05-18-2005, 12:00 PM
Connie, here I am to the rescue (I hope at least and so much for modesty). There is a definite likeness there and I hope we will be able now to make it even better. So here we go.
I have printed out your drawing, put it side by sid with the reference and made some circles and lines and wrote some text. Unfortunately the text might be difficult to read so I will post the text from top to bottom of the drawing so you can follow.
Add more head - I think the right side (his left) top of the head nees a bit more
Less or bright hair - the inside corner of his hair on the right (his left) side should go back as far as on the other side of the head.
Strighter - the upper eyelid of the left (his right) eye should be a tad less rounded
Now comes the problematic eye - the right (his left)
Inside corner of this eye should be up, something like on the other eye.
Inside corner arch upward to the eyebrow should come up, about as much as you see in the other eye, you did this line too much in an angle and not in a smooth arch with the highest point (as on the other eye) closer to the nose.
The lower eyelid, far corner - towards the outside should stay lower longer and the outside corner of the eye might need to be brought down a bit.
Did you draw the eyes in the same size of the circle? The right (his left) iris should be rounded.
Bridge of the nose try to shade everything in a way that the nose is parallel.
Tip of the nose should be rounder and fuller especially on the right (his left) side.
Cheeks should be a bit rounder on both sides and brought in a touch. I think that especially on the right side (his left) you are a bit misled by the shadows.
Upper lip bring it down in the middle a bit.
Mouth it loks as if the mouth is a bit too wide open.
Teeth please cut the teeth back on the top. Right now they are too prominent changing his facial expression rather strongly.
Lower lip I think it is too thick. Again, I think you were misled by the shadows under the lip.
Chin try to make the chin bottom line parallel to the line the mouth forms. You have a pronounced spike on the left (his right) side and the you come up too quickly giving him a very pointed, left-sided, chin.
I know it sounds much but all changes, with the exception of the right (his left) eye are really minor. All can be fixed rather easily. If you hate me, I'm glad you don't know where I live :D :D :D :D :evil:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-May-2005/38786-connie.jpg

Reinhard1
05-18-2005, 12:22 PM
Guys, sorry for having been away for a while. I was selfish wanting to continue on my drawing. Now it's posted, here I am again.
Judi I absolutely adore how you caught that smile. It will be fascinating to see this grow.
Stacy I would continue - even if it only were for practice purpose. I don't think that we nee photocopies of the pictures we would like to draw. You have the basic shapes down, nothing taken away from likeness and off you go.
Anita I'm so proud of you and your excellent critiques. You'll see how this will help you in your own drawings.
Jolanta where are you??????? Surely your garden can't be that BIG. We miss (at least I do ) you! :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

Judi1957
05-18-2005, 12:58 PM
Hi Reinhard . Thanks-I am enjoying doing this one-she cheers me up to look at her! :)
Hi Sults!TY :) Can't wait to see your drawing here! I think you are nearing the home stretch with your sp. :D
Barb Don't frett-you'll catch up-are things going better?
Mary , you are getting there! :clap:
Anita -Yea! another C & Cer! :clap:
Bon Fantastic! :clap:
Connie you are gting there too. :clap: Reinhards sketch will help you a lot
Stacey-Whichever way you go it'll be great-your drawings always are! :D

JOLANTA-Can you hear us now? We are missing you so much your highness! :D

Mary Woodul
05-18-2005, 02:53 PM
Anita, muchas gracias!. It is always so much easier when I read the critiques and I copy and print them out to take to my table while I draw, so I do not forget anything. I see now, where the flaw might be.

Sults, I also see now about the geo shapes, it will help me get the look I want, Thank you.

Stacey, please don't say that, in the first place it is not as easy to draw a picture at a distance than a close up. You will do fine, your work has always been good.

Hi Barabara :wave:

Reinhard, you are really fantastic. :D

Hi Judi, thank you. :D

Jolanta :confused: , where are you, we miss you!!!

SILKNSATIN
05-18-2005, 03:38 PM
Thank you mary,sultry and Judi.You all seem to be doing great and having fun at it to.Thats all that counts.

Mary Woodul
05-18-2005, 03:45 PM
Hi Mary, this is where you take apart the eye in geo shapes. Look at the iris in the ref pic see how the curve is right in the middle where you have it a little too low on your rendering? Look at the whites of the eye it is wider on bottom than on top in ref pic. It is sideways triangle but it is also stretched out. Remember to sketch the geo shape of the shadow from under the lid, all of this plays into making that same stare he has. I will send you a diagram but not till after I go pick up prescriptions for Carmelo and I, if you want me to. Let me know ok? He looks so cute btw. :)

Sultry, I'm so sorry, my mind is not working well today. I didn't thank you for the offer of the diagram and if you can, I would appreciate it. Hope things are better with Carmelo and you, also. :wave:

sultry
05-18-2005, 04:25 PM
Hi Mary,
OK, this is not exact of your cute grandson's eye but it is close. I want to you see what I mean about the geo shapes and how they can help you make your eye close to the ref pic.
First it is shadows that have a big part in the over all eye. If you note I have placed a S mark for all the geo shapes that I found in the eye that are shadows. When you find them it breaks down the eye to lines and you can follow or copy that much easier then the whole eye.
Also, note that a eye is not exact on top as it is on bottom. You will have a dip and a curve not in the same line but it will be at a diagonal line to each other. where the widest part of the eye is on the top and bottom. I hope that I worded that correctly. When you look for the geo shapes you can shade them in the contrasting values to get the 3d roundness you want. Hope this helps.
Oh Carmelo and I are hanging in there, ty for asking. We have one good thing in our favor, that is LOVE. :cat:

SILKNSATIN
05-18-2005, 05:31 PM
Very good sultry.
Mary the eye brow you drew is a little to curved and that can throw the rest off.Plus if ya don't get your blends in the right places and deeper blends,then some parts can look flat.Hope I don't offend you by drawing this mary.Pointing out the lights and darks,helps alot.I think your eye is very good.But you have to make the blends fit in right.On the cheek by the nose you have a line more then a shaded blend.

Mary Woodul
05-18-2005, 06:52 PM
Thank you Sults and Bon, you are both so generous with your time in drawing these for me. It is easier now to understand and I see Bon that the shading around the eye lids gives depth to the eye and in the eye I did, it was popping out. Love you both. :D

cmwynn
05-18-2005, 07:02 PM
Thanks to all for the encouraging comments. I could easily give up but won't. Anita - I appreciate the critique, wish I felt enough confidence to help others. I am sure it would help me as well.
Reinhold - no, I don't hate you. All the trouble you go to for us is a blessing. I think I should wait a day or two and do something else, letting this percolate in my mind, but will try to apply what you have shown me.

SILKNSATIN
05-18-2005, 07:37 PM
Love you to mary. :D
Connie you have come a long ways gf. :clap: :clap:

jmfletch
05-18-2005, 07:41 PM
Well I have not finished reading this lesson or the 168 plus posts, but I just posted my portrait and wanted to keep the momentum going so I figured I would post my ref pic before I get started. This is my grandaughter about five years ago when she was 5. The cat has me worried the most. :D

Joe

sultry
05-18-2005, 08:09 PM
Aweeeeee Joe she is adorable !!!!! Hey Joe just look at the cat in geo shapes and you'll do fine. Remember, YOU CAN DO IT. :cat:
Mary I wub you too, that goes with out saying (since you already knew that). :angel:

Mary Woodul
05-18-2005, 10:00 PM
Joe, she is so cute and has a beautiful face. I have a cat just like that. Knowing you, you'll do that portrait in a breeze and we will still be suffering. :D

Jolanta
05-18-2005, 10:02 PM
Hi, :wave:
I think I have some telepatic powers. I had this overwhelming feeling to come here and check on my friends and sure enough found out I am missed :)
Thank you sooo much! You all are doing so well here - are you sure you need me??? Just kidding. I love this place! I was busy preparing impressive resume, biography and statement for the interview with the gallery. They just looked at my originals and said - it's great - you are in :D I am so happy I cannot do anything else today. I will be back tomorrow and look if I can find something wrong with your pictures :evil: It is going to be hard :D
I just wanted to say to Stacy - you did very good drawing. Only the upper part of her body was tilted too far to the right. Then you overlapped it WRONG so it looked like you did everything wrong. You can easily correct it at this stage. No need to start again. You are too good to give up so easily! It was YOU who noticed she is leaning too far to the right. Get your pencils sharp and get to work - there is no better feeling than creating!!!
See you tomorrow :wave:
Jolanta

Cathie Jones
05-18-2005, 10:07 PM
Okay, while we're all 'wubbing' here I have to say that I wub you guys, too!
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-May-2005/23460-smiley_hug.gif

Did everyone get an e-mail notice that there's a new 'Drawing Board' magazine available? Click here (http://www.artistsmagazine.com/mags_tam_display.asp?id=1694)

And finally, if you promise not to tell JayD or RR, I'll show you what I did last night instead of drawing . . . promise? :evil: Okay, here's a link to post #12, where I updated following some critique: Bucket of Roses (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3538372&postcount=12)

Now, I think I'll work on the child drawing. :angel:

CONGRATULATIONS JOLANTA!!!

SILKNSATIN
05-18-2005, 10:17 PM
CAN'T YOU JUST FEEL THE LOVE CATHIE. ;) Gives ya a big HUGGIE. :D
Jolanta congrats and your always missed and a great help to many. :clap: :wave:
Joe I know this will be beautiful once you have it done.Beautiful child :clap:

Judi1957
05-18-2005, 10:30 PM
Ok so we're all in WUB!

Hi Jay, Stacey, Bon, Mary, Joe and Jay :wave:

Hi CJ-e-mail? do you still get the WC newsletter or something-I haven't got one since last November I think. Thanks for the info, gonna check it out. :D
Your painting is beautiful, I love the colors and the copper bucket! :clap: :clap: (OK-I promise not to tell :rolleyes: :D )

Jolanta, (Congrats again!), so glad you are back-even short visits as you are busy are better than none-we do need you. :)

Judi1957
05-18-2005, 11:25 PM
Hi all, :wave:
Wow, you know I kept looking at this and I could see something was wrong. I found out why a bit ago. I had her face a tad wide and long. How did I do it? I dunno :confused:
Still need to pull up her chin a bit. Just to show you how much difference this makes I am posting yesterdays and todays. Was I off! Posting first the last one I posted, second one the corrected (almost) one and the ref. Careful measuring-I think from now on I will constantly recheck as I go. Just a lesson I learned and though I'd share.

Cathie Jones
05-18-2005, 11:33 PM
Judi, that is one darling little girl! I have to smile every time I see that photo, and your drawing is capturing her sweetness, but not quite the joy in her eyes!

When I bought a back issue of 'Drawing Board' there was a notice on the web site that they would be publishing it again soon, and you could register to be e-mailed when it was available. I know several of us looked at the site when we were drawing figures . . .

Now, the only things I have to say about drawing ths child are not printable in a family forum, so I'll just get back to it . . . or not. Getting late and my eyes are very tired.

byebye

Judi1957
05-19-2005, 12:01 AM
Judi, that is one darling little girl! I have to smile every time I see that photo, and your drawing is capturing her sweetness, but not quite the joy in her eyes!


Ah-ha-CJ-you have broght up something else that bothers me-as that is what drew me in to the photo(the joy in her eyes)-I am looking, but not seeing :( Thank-you- gosh I hope I can capture it!

Cathie Jones
05-19-2005, 12:13 AM
Judi, I think it's her right eye - the viewer's left - it isn't 'squinted' as much as in the photo. Try narrowing it a little bit more.

Judi1957
05-19-2005, 06:58 AM
You are right CJ, thanks so much. :)

sultry
05-19-2005, 07:21 AM
Morn All, Hiyas CJ & Judi
Judi I was staring at the eyes and agree with CJ. I figured it out, have you ever doodled a face with just dots and a few lines? Like the Walmart face?
Look at below and note on the ref pic the bottom of her eyes (eye lid) is like a little knoll rounded to mold to her cheeks that are shot up from her big grin. Do you see it? You started to do that but you need to enhance it even more so. Also, they have a bit of a cat like shape, note how they start out from the nose and seem to slant upwards at the outer eye. That will give her eyes that joy. Supplying close up of eyes for you.

Judi1957
05-19-2005, 07:31 AM
Wow Sults, those pictures are so-o-o-o helpful-thanks!
See ya all tonite. :wave:

Reinhard1
05-19-2005, 08:29 AM
Judi I agree fully with sults. I recommend to get in front of a mirror, smile and observe the movement you will have in the lower eyelid or hold your fingers under the eye, smile, and feel how your fingers are pulled upwards. When I drew my anatomical face this became obvious to me since I had to take a look at the underlying muscles.

Reinhard1
05-19-2005, 09:08 AM
Cathie Jones, I SAW THAT !!!!!!!!. Absolutely lovely. You might not recall but I started WC in watercolor and wanted to do portraits. Whenever I find the nerve to go back I know who will (hopefully) help me.

Fireman's kid
05-19-2005, 10:24 AM
Hi Guys! First let me say thank you all for being so supportive!! I knew you would be but it's great to read anyway. :D I wub you all too!

I am still feeling in an art funk. I get so frustrated when my desire outstrips my skill. And it is especially annoying to have to start something over when I have so little time for art and I draw sooooooooooo slooooooooow.

Speaking of starting over...I still haven't decided whether I am going to do that or work with what I have then transfer it to a new sheet. Right now I am taking a mini break to get the house back in order. Life feels a little out of control here and that makes it hard for me to concentrate. When I am cleaning or doing laundry I keep thinking I should be drawing; when I'm drawing I think I should be doing chores; when I'm here reading I think I should be critiquing. I am bad about living in the moment and I think that is a big part of what is making me feel stressed. So I am going to work on that. And in the meantime I am clearing the clutter from the house in hopes that it clears the clutter from my brain.

I won't give up on this drawing, but I have to accept that I probably won't be done my Sunday (in time to move on to the next class).

Pam - Thanks for sharing with me that I'm not the only one having trouble with angles. And you are right, it seems like many people "get it right" the first time which is frustrating when I'm not one of those people.

Jay - thanks for the pep talk. But I fear that only that 10th Sheltie is really my friend as I think he's the one telling the truth. :evil: :p

Connie - You are right - this is something I really want to do. That's what makes the difficulties so frustrating! And I have to say, if I had made even half as much progress as you have, I would be floating. You may be working out some small details, but you have the likeness of your grandson. Anyone would know it is him. I am proud of you for your hard work and dedication, but honestly a little :envy: too. And I'm :o to be :envy: of such a sweet, nice person. I hope you don't hold it against me.

Sults - thanks for your kind words! It's good to know that I am not the only one to ever have experienced this. I had forgotten about RR's thread on his art block. Looking at his work now it seems like it has always come easy for him. I know part of my problem is trying too hard. I am trying to force my art into what little time I have and get everything done so I can keep up. It's not that I was rushing while drawing, but my brain was rushing. I was thinking of all the other things I had to do or wanted to do. That's why I am going to work on being more in the moment and stop running my To Do list through my head.

Anita - I turned the volume up so I could hear your cheers. I really need them. And I like your take on a hurdle. I think I am going to write that down so I remember it.

Barbara - thanks for the pep talk! A gentle kick in the pants is just what I needed. Just a reminder to you...Jay said we don't need to do the lessons in order once we get past the first 7 or so. There are several that I have skipped and plan to pick up later. Why don't you stop lurking and join us here? I know life is hectic for you and you may not finish the assignments each time, but even if you start I think it is much more fun to be with the class. Just don't put pressure on yourself to finish or you'll become stressed out like me!

Royal Rein - Thanks for the encouragement! Someday I hope to be able to draw portraits as well as you. How does it feel to be an inspiration to someone?!?

Judi - I am glad you have confidence in my drawing abilities! That is something I am lacking right now. Maybe I'll find my confidence hiding under the sofa when I vaccuum the family room?

Mary - thank you also for your vote of confidence. If I don't find mine while vaccumming, maybe I can borrow some from you and Judi.

Jolanta - first let me say congrats on the gallery. I'm glad we're not the only people who know how great you are!! :) I will try overlapping the bottom of the body now that I figured out how to move the images. I hope you are right, but even if not, I won't give up. And thanks for saying I am good. Maybe if I hear it enough I'll start to believe it.

Sorry this became a novel, but I did want to thank everyone in my little therapy team. :p And the good news is all this therapy came free of charge! Now I'm off to adjust my attitude, but I'll be back!


P.S. CJ - I like your pot of roses! They are very good. As a watercolor girls I understand the need for color. Unfortunately for me, my watercolors aren't going any better than my drawings these days. :rolleyes:

sultry
05-19-2005, 10:39 AM
I am still feeling in an art funk. I get so frustrated when my desire outstrips my skill. And it is especially annoying to have to start something over when I have so little time for art and I draw sooooooooooo slooooooooow.
Sults - thanks for your kind words! It's good to know that I am not the only one to ever have experienced this. I had forgotten about RR's thread on his art block. Looking at his work now it seems like it has always come easy for him. I know part of my problem is trying too hard. I am trying to force my art into what little time I have and get everything done so I can keep up. It's not that I was rushing while drawing, but my brain was rushing. I was thinking of all the other things I had to do or wanted to do. That's why I am going to work on being more in the moment and stop running my To Do list through my head.
GF, just remember, even though, it is not a good feeling when we are blocked, take a look at this way...a positive way...
A block is really a blessing in disguise, If you were to go back in WC and look at other artist who posed they were in a slump and then maybe a little later they post again something so spectacular you could not even believe it was drawn by the same artist because their b4 renderings did not have that much detail or contrast before. I think when I get blocked, it may be my muse needing time to rejuvinate and digest all its learned so it can give me more to apply on paper. She has to stop too and get things in order for me (just like your muse does too). Don't you remember when I posted in a few classes back, I thought I lost my muse? I did not lose her at all, I realize now, that she was with me all along and working overtime. So in a way, I am looking forward to my next block because it means I will improve even more towards my goal. :wink2:

I do not like what you said to Jay, the 9 shelties are right gf. The 10th one is being negative and positive is where you should think....YOU CAN DO IT. It just takes babysteps of lines and geo shapes. HUGs ya cuz I WUB YA :cat:

OHHHH CJ beautiful roses gf I think you really know your wc. :clap:

Reinhard1
05-19-2005, 11:04 AM
STACY written in capital letters so that you hear me. I think your sketch is good and you should continue, therefore 2 little remarks. Take a look at her lower lip. You are starting to give it from our point of view a "right sided dip" which is not there in the reference and the same thing you started with the chin. Please check again, these lines should be more or less parallel to the eyes and the upper lip.
As for being able to draw portraits, you are already there. You have all the ingredients (love for drawing - observarion - dedication - talent). I know that, when will YOU accept it? I recommend, enter actively into the C&C team. This will help you to observe and then translate that into your work.
Being an inspiration? I am honoured and humbled, thanks.
Running against blocks is the best that can happen to us, as sults correctly said, because taking them as normal helps coping, surpassing them helps improving.
And as a final note. Should I change my signature?
I am looking forward to seeing your continuation of your daughter's beautiful portrait. And take your time. Rushing has never been a good advisor neither has pressure (unless its artistic pressure that is). Patience, patience, patience....... All will come back and more. I know it and I believe in you. RR

sultry
05-19-2005, 11:32 AM
And as a final note. Should I change my signature?
Yes, & whenever your ready I will do it for you RR. I will do it for anyone else who wants it done also. Look at mine, Judi's, Dee's & Annes. RR I need you to send the pics to my email so I can get a clearer copy ok?

Cathie Jones
05-19-2005, 12:10 PM
Thank you Judi, Stacy and Sults (RR . . . you caught me!). I love color, and those roses really perked me up.

Rein, I'm afraid you'll need to ask someone else for watercolor help - I'm still a student there, also. I'd love to see some of your stuff, though! :D

I'm really struggling with the child portrait - even with the grid. I'm trying to do my granddaughter and having a great deal of trouble drawing what I see instead of what I know (or think I know!). Thinking maybe I'll try a subject I'm not so close to!!

sultry
05-19-2005, 12:22 PM
CJ post what you have so we can help you. You may not be as far off as you might think you are.

Blah
05-19-2005, 02:21 PM
Jay, and all my classmates...It feels wonderful to be back, and also a bit unnerving......all of you have advanced by leaps and bounds.

I am sorry to have disappeared so suddenly, and sorrier still to have imposed a lengthy explanation on all of you.

Judi, Barbara, Dave, Jay, Bon, Mary and Deb..thank you for the kind comments.

I missed out from Class 13 to this one. I am hoping to stay in touch with this class while I work through all my missed assignments and catch up with you.
With that in mind I am posting a couple of drawings I did some time ago. Hopefully, with what I have learn in Basic 101, I should be able to do the same subjects better now.

I shall do the Class 19 assignment after completing the assignments for classes 13 to 18.

So far I have downloaded all the lessons and gone through the first 75 posts in this thread. Obviously I have a lot of catching up to do.

Blah

Blah
05-19-2005, 02:45 PM
Based on the first 75 posts in this thread......

Mbeckett, nice courageous start (with not 1, but 6 kids). I like the textured feel to your entire drawing and in particular the way you have done the folds and hands.

Bon, absolutely terrific drawings of your daughter & grandaughter, and the baby (post # 25).

Jay....I enjoyed visiting the poulinstudios site. Thanks.

Judi...lovely choice of subject (#41)

Connie...wonderful drawing. Yes, there are some differences between your drawing and the photograph, but I think you have done an outstanding job.

Anita....a very effective drawing.

Peter and Dave...looking forward to your drawings. Your subjects have such nice and expressive faces.

Mary....Very interesting subject, but a challenging one with 4 children. At this stage (post # 63) the second child from left to right seems to be tilted too far to her left, and the last child's head should be slightly tilted, which it is not.

Jackie...I am sorry to hear about what your husband is going through. Hope he gets well soon.

Danna, your drawing of Axel is looking good so far except that the bridge of his nose appears slightly flattened at this stage.

Roger .....stunning work so far.

Nancy....wow!

Blah

sultry
05-19-2005, 03:05 PM
Blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh its so good to see you post again, Welcome Back Bro & who are these cuties?
:clap: :clap: :clap: Can you tell we missed you?

Cathie Jones
05-19-2005, 03:06 PM
BLAH
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Welcom back!! You must have been feeling all the love vibes that are going around here these days!! We've missed you.

It certainly doesn't look as if you need lessons in drawing children!

Anita Murphy
05-19-2005, 04:47 PM
I am joining Stacy in funk-mode but heartened by Sultry's take that it means I am going to come back much improved :D well there is nothing like being optimistic! I am totally unable to pick up a pencil, brush, CP, anything and have reduced myself to studying for the MCSE out of desperation. Someone give me a kick up the rear end please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blah - we haven't met - HI :wave: - I love the kiddies! Especially the first.

Mary Woodul
05-19-2005, 05:16 PM
Blah, how great to see you back and with a drawing of two very lovely kids. We did, really miss you.

CJ that watercolour is right down my alley, I love it.

Stacey, that is the real you, in your post. :clap:

Blah, I found out too quickly that it was a challenge with the four and if I enlarged the picture, the pixels would deform the details so I have decided for one, at the moment. :D

Anita, today is the day I go to Pilates at 6:00 in the morning and my mind is not registering. What is MCSE? :confused:

I'm struggling with the folds in the Tshirt and the hands were very hard because of the position. I'll post a little later before continuing, to see what you all think.

Judi you're coming along, it is just those little details in the eyes that CJ and Sultry pointed out. :wave:

Mary Woodul
05-19-2005, 05:59 PM
This how far I've gone today but it is getting messy and I think I have to pull a lot of lights out of it.

Anita Murphy
05-19-2005, 06:08 PM
Mary - WOW its looking good! The only thing I can see now is that the chin angle is slightly out and you have a longer distance down to where the jaw curves than is in the reference picture.
The hands are looking great!
MCSE is Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer - network management certification.

Reinhard1
05-19-2005, 06:22 PM
Mary "mi amor" (no offense please it just sounds so nicely :D :wave: :p :evil: ) , you are really doing a great job, however... :D :D :D ... additionally to what Anita already mentioned I have 3 observations. The iris of the left (his right) eye is not a circle, please check. Secondly, you have to give the child "more ear", I think I read this somewhere already, the lowest point of the ear is nearly parallel to the nostril (you are high up in the middle of the nose), if you lengthened the ear this should solve much of the "too long jawline" problem. Thirdly, please reduce the highlight on his lower lip some. On my screen it appears not as a highlight but more than an open mouth.
Anita thanks for joining the c&c team. You are doing great. :clap:

sultry
05-19-2005, 06:24 PM
Hiyas Mary & Anita (wow Anita that sounds like a very important and very hard job).
This how far I've gone today but it is getting messy and I think I have to pull a lot of lights out of it.
Mary wait before you start to pull lights, I want you to see something. Please look at the contrast values in the ref pic (I supplied a close up of the hands) do you see the different ranges in values? Look over at your rendered hands now. Do you see where you need to go darker to match the ref pic hands? Your grandson's hand facing him is the darkest side of the hand, you need to add more darks on that side of your hand also. What pencil are you using? how hard are you pressing? You have a great mid value now, do not lose it, just add to it.
Mary, this portrait is very good and I want you to know that you are seeing so much and doing so much more in your work, can you see your improvements from your prior classes?
edited to add...Oh hi RR,

Mary Woodul
05-19-2005, 06:36 PM
Anita, thank you I will check that right now. Thakns for clearing the doubt for me. :D

Reinhard, no offense, on the contrary (thank you). :D I see what you are saying. Will print this and get to work.

Sults, I forgot to print out a grey scale. Thank you all and I will go to it right now while I have it fresh in my mind. :D

Mary Woodul
05-19-2005, 06:47 PM
I tell you my mind is not working right today. I just want you three to know how much I appreciate the time in observation you take to help others. :clap: :clap: :clap: :D

Jolanta
05-19-2005, 07:19 PM
Hi :wave:
I am back and I am going to work hard :evil:
Judi - the girl in the ref.photo is showing not just a smile but more.She looks like she did something she shouldn't and trying to win us up with her georgeous smile pushing her shoulders up and stretching her cheeks as far as they can go - you know this look? right? :D You have a good advice on eyes. They need to be narrow and outside corners going up and under eyes shading is very important. You have to work more on her mouth. The teeth in the drawing are too far spread in the mouth. See how much dark is in the corners of her mouth? Her smile line in her left side needs more definition and corners of the mouth up to the smile lines need more darks. When you draw it just think about her pushing the smile to the limits - this will help.
Jolanta

Jolanta
05-19-2005, 07:27 PM
Mary - instead of lifting lights in your drawing you should punch the darks! :)
Look how dark his hair is in the photo. His eyes are big and very very dark too. Just analize the values. Look at the photo and at your drawing. It's a nice drawing but kind of pale to me. Give it some drama, push up darks where they are and you will see big improvement.
Jolanta

Jolanta
05-19-2005, 07:39 PM
THANK YOU ALL FOR VERY NICE RESPONSE TO MY HAPPY NEWS ABOUT GALLERY. :) I still cannot believe how easy it was.
Let's keep drawing and hit the galleries
We are going to be rich and famous :D
Jolanta

SILKNSATIN
05-19-2005, 07:40 PM
Hi Judi.looking very good. :clap:
Mary wonderful :clap: .Just darken a bit and it will look fantastic.Now you all pat yourself on back and smile.
Sorry my demo of the ref. wasn't step by step.Next time ill slowly put in the darks and blendings.If there is a next time.LOL
Thank you Blah.Good to see you and good drawing. :clap: .(post #25)??what does that mean?lol

Judi1957
05-19-2005, 08:08 PM
BLAH! I am so glad you have returned!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: Long time no see!
Are those your grandchildren? Nice work!

CJ, Sults, Jolanta and Reinhard, thank you for all the advice on the eyes, it is right on. Sults-those pictures really helped me 'see' what I am missing-how far off I was. I worked on it a while this morning-hope I got that fixed-and then my ride came and had to stop.
:(

Jolanta-I pretty much had stopped on the mouth for a bit-yes need many more darks there for sure-but I was really getting into fixing and finishing her hair. Then the eyes. I will recheck/fix her teeth. I have a problem with starting one thing on a picture and moving to something else before I finish or come to an appropriate holding place. I am really trying to stop that as I can loose the swing of it. oh-and you are already famous!

Hi Mary-looking great :clap: -he is a beautiful grandson!
Hi Bon, thanks :)

cmwynn
05-19-2005, 10:01 PM
I know CJ doesn't really want to draw children, but this is my favorite lesson of all, with all those cuties to see and analyze.
Joe - that is a delightful picture, the cat will work out I know.
CJ - I understand the need to splash color sometimes after lots of drawing. You have done a lovely job, do you think your practice drawing has helped you with the paintings? That is why I started coming to this forum in the first place.
Judi - You do have a very happy look to that girl, I'm sure the help you have gotten about the eyes will bring in the joy you want to show. I am still plagued with a worried grandson and don't know why.
Jolanta - Congrats on the gallery. We knew you were that good, it's good to get validation from the public.
Stacey - If you find your confidence hiding under the sofa, see if mine is there too, I don't do the cleaning any more, so may never find it.
Blah - your children had me smiling. They are so good. We have missed you, but know there are other things in life (in theory.)
Mary - I can see a good likeness of the child in your drawing, but agree that you need more darks, not lifting for more lights. Do you have a value scale? I use one but still have trouble getting parts as dark as I know they should be.

cmwynn
05-19-2005, 10:06 PM
My drawing was getting so ratty that I was afraid to erase anymore, so I just started over. I was sure that I was more aware and would observe all the points that I had missed before. Wrong! But I think it is better than the last version. I have reviewed all the criticisms and hope I have addressed them, but am open for more. I really want to get this right. I adjusted the photo in Photoshop to get the hairline on the right side, so am satisfied that is right. He had his first haircut a few days ago, so is looking quite different now.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-May-2005/29839-Thomasgxm_.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-May-2005/29839-Thomas_9_mon_revxm.jpg

Cathie Jones
05-20-2005, 12:40 PM
Good job, Connie! Your drawing skills have really improved through this class!

Have you drawn anything to paint lately? I was absolutely amazed at how easy it was to do the sketch for the rose painting. This class has done exactly what I wanted it to do . . . improved my drawing-for-painting!! I still need a lot of improvement, but it's soooooo much better than before!

Reinhard1
05-20-2005, 12:44 PM
Connie I don't think that it was necessary to re-do but here we go.
I have tried to mark all the adaptations I see on the scan.
As a general remark. Try to smoothe the tonal values out as much as possible. Babies have VERY soft and smooth skin and therefore very subtle shading. Especially the bridge of the nose. You have more or less and adult nose shading which takes away from the likeness. Make the bridge wider, as I tried to indicate and softer. Both irises have to be a perfect circle. I recommend to use a template to draw them. The right, his left, eye needs re-working. The curve that comes up from the inner corner should be as on the ofther eye. You still have this eyelid coming up too slowly. His right (our left) cheek. In the reference the line comes down in a rather straight line, you have a curve. But, most of all, the distance from the tip of the nose so the mouth is too large, bring this up. Smae thing distance lower lip to the chin. Too wide as well taking away the "baby" look. Left and right corners of the lower lip. Bring the corners out, you took away the fullness there. And yes, one more thing. I think that the top left part of the head (his left) should be brought in a bit, the head is here a tad disproportioned gibing the head a one-sided tilted look. And, check the distance between the left (his right) eye and the side of the head. The distance is too wide in the drawing compared to the reference.
As I said before, I'm glad you don't know where I live. :evil: :evil: :evil:
Looking forward to your next updates. :wave:


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-May-2005/38786-connie.jpg

roger41
05-20-2005, 12:55 PM
Hey Reinhard..........we can trace your IP Address......but that only goes to the computer that you are on or your network.....oh i don't know :evil: :D :evil: ......... We don't mind your critiques because we know that you hold yourself to the same standard....you practice what you preach ...by the way Most times i don't practice what i preach. :p :D :p :D

Roger

Mary Woodul
05-20-2005, 01:36 PM
Well I had written all of the below and could not upload until I noticed something was wrong with Internet connection. So I copied and pasted.

Connie, I'm glad to see that Reinhard came to your rescue, because I'm not sure that what I am saying here is understandable. :D


Anita, that jaw line is a headache, but I think making the ear longer did help. Vamos a ver! :confused:

Reinhard, you were so right about the ear, poor kid I ate half of his ear. His iris is tricky, I'm not sure if I got it. Ojalà :wink2:

Sults, it was a big help to see the desaturated picture. I was using just a fine pencil and added a 3b last night for the darker parts.

Jolanta, I hope I darkened it enough and in the right places, if not, let me know.

Thank you Bon and Judi. :D

Connie, no I don't have a value scale. I have learned a lot that I didn't know in this forum, being a mixed media artist.

Connie, I can see a likeness in your portrait and I see your style. His left eye lid needs to be rounded a bit from the inner corner of his eye to about the top of the eyeball, together with the iris. I think both eyes could be larger. I think you have the width of the nostrils right but you have to round the outside of both nostrils. Measure the width over the middle part of the nose, in your reference picture, and measure the vertical width of the outside of each nostril. He has a very symmetrical nose.
The mouth needs to be larger. Measure the distance for the V part in his upper lip, to the bottom of the lower lip and then the horizontal width of the mouth. Connie I hope this will help and I am not good at this but that is what I see that could improve the likeness. He is such a precious child. :D

Here is another stage of my portrait but I do have a problem that I think could only be solved by doing the arm over and part of his right hand. The thumb doesn't come up to where it should on the cheek and I finally found that the reason is, that the forearm in my drawing is too short. The reason this picture is cropped like the way it is, is because I took it for his hand when we were doing hands and didn't realize his face was in it, but I like the expression very much. He was teasing me turning the hands.

C&Cs appreciated. :D :wave:

Something happened to the uploader. I'll post and try to upload after.

Anita Murphy
05-20-2005, 01:49 PM
Mary - so much better! You have done a great job! The shirt is looking really good too. Give yourself a pat on the back!!! :clap:

Reinhard1
05-20-2005, 02:00 PM
Hola Mary,
the drawing is coming along just peachy :clap: and you're doing great in c&c - thanks.
I think you did perfect with the iris :clap: What needs a little bit of attention is the upper eyelid - I think to see that the arch in the middle over the iris is too high, opening the eye a bit much and, outward from the middle towards the outside corner, you come down too quickly. Try to make that smoother and leave the upper eyelid a fraction of a mm more up. It isn't much, but infortunately we see even the slightest differences in portraits. You're not off by much, just an angel's kiss - do they kiss? :angel: :evil: :wave: :D .
now let's move to the cheeks (yes, plural).
If you take a look at the left (his right) cheek If you take the outside corner of the left (his right) hand as a reference and measure the distance to the jawbone you might see that there is a difference meaning too little in the drawing compared to the reference. If you bring that out then, IMHO, the cheek will look a lot better if not perfect.
The right (his left) cheek. If you observe in the reference, the cheekline comes down and then with a beatiful smooth curve goes in. In the drawing you have nearly a slanted line. Could you agree?
Saludos a México

sultry
05-20-2005, 03:21 PM
Hi everyone :wave:
I am doing a favor for judi because she could not open WC when she left.
Hi Sults-going out the door but wanted to ask you if you can post this for me with:

"Think I am at the half way point-more to do all around but I thought I would submit this for C & C till I get back. Then I will have your C & C as well as fresh eyes for it myself as well. The mouth/teeth need to be refined, darks need to be added, more shading....aww -you guys fill in the blanks here please.
Looking forward to getting away for a few days-see ya all later!"

Connie you got C&C already but I have one comment you did really well for such a quick re-do btw.
Mary, yes I see good contrast now. His eyes have the same stare as your ref pic too.

(Here's my C&C to Judi), Judi I think you still need to lift the outer edge eyes a tad. But gf, you sure did get her to look like her alot.

Here's her update now

Mary Woodul
05-20-2005, 06:50 PM
Oh no! Sr. Reinhard, :evil: :crying: , .....ok, I like perfection too. :D :wave:

Mary Woodul
05-20-2005, 06:55 PM
Gracias, Anita.

Hi, Sults :wave:

Judi, I do love her smile and maybe just a little more slant would be good but you have gotten her expression so well. Have a good time. :wave:

Reinhard1
05-20-2005, 07:08 PM
Mary just le me know when you want me to stop. :crying:
Saludos

Mary Woodul
05-20-2005, 07:36 PM
No, please no, I need your help. :D :wave: I was just kidding. :evil:

llanpe
05-20-2005, 11:30 PM
Hello everyone. I didnt dissapear, :evil: :envy: working so hard, someone is on hidays so, I have to work nearly 12 hours a day (weekends too :crying: :crying: :crying: ) and I have to finish by the 5th of June 2 drawings (still life for a local Art Show) I had the, (stupid?) idea to work
big for the first time 75x57 cm ... :evil:
I am looking quick to all of your drawings WHAT A SURPRISE! to see the big improvements in all of you in this difficult subject (kids are not easy to do)
I love your roses Catthie and the nice black in your work Roger and Danna, Mary, Connie, Anita, Judi, I admire everyone here, you are working so hard. I miss all of you.
Pam dont say you are not improving, ofcourse you are. You are learning to "see" your mistakes. You are not improving if you dont feel happy when drawing. Keep going, learning takes time, I had that sad experience myself.
Hope to be here with all of you soon.
Finally all my gratitude to the starts of "this show", Jolanta, Jay and Reinhard.

Regards, Peter

Cathie Jones
05-21-2005, 12:00 AM
Hi Peter! We've missed you.

JUDI!!! She's beautiful, wonderful, joyful . . . I would be totally pleased to have accomplished that likeness! :clap: :clap: :clap:

I'll have to come back to this class someday when the mood strikes. We're working day and night again, out of town tomorrow and working all day Sunday. By the time I get to my drawing paper, I'm too tired to care.

I'll check back to see what everyone's doing, but unless I have a giant boost of energy tomorrow morning, I'll wait for the next lesson.

NiteNite . . .
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-May-2005/23460-smiley_snore.gif

XOXOXOXO

Judi1957
05-21-2005, 07:11 AM
Morning all :wave:
Just having my WC with my coffee.
Thanks Sults for the C & C and posting for me :) and glad WC is up and running.

Hi Peter, Mary and CJ, Thanks for the C & C and compliment. I am happy w/ the likeness so far-but it is still not where I want it to be. This time out will be good--to step away from it for awhile.
The grandkids are so much fun and the changes since we last saw them is amazing----the things they say are so-o-o funny and their vocabulary has expanded-ha-ha-'big' little people.


See ya all soon :wave:

Mary Woodul
05-21-2005, 08:36 AM
Good morning, everyone! :wave:

Peter, I was wondering where you had gone? :D

CJ, Hi,I hope to see yours soon. :evil:

Judi, have fun with the grand kids. :(

I have to go ranching, so I just wanted to say a quick hello and I will see you all tomorrow.

Here is another update of Patricio. :wave:

I prefer the digital picture because I see you can't see it very well 'll take one and post.

Mary Woodul
05-21-2005, 08:51 AM
Here is the digital.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-May-2005/43096-IMG_1303.JPG

Reinhard1
05-21-2005, 09:32 AM
Mary, there's so little left to "critique" what will I do then? Very good. :clap:

I see that you put in the recommended alterations. It is just a question. Is the left iris (his right) a perfect circle? It might be the shading of the scan.

And now my wishlist, being superpicky. The right thumb (his left). If you look at the tip of the thumb you will find that you have it pretty rounded while in the reference the tip is slightly off to the right. Plus 2 more things with his little thumb. You mentioned before that you are not completely happy with it. Nr 1. You drew the line from the thumb towards the base as more or less a stright line while in the reference is has a slight but noticable inward curve at the base joint of the thumb. 2 You drew a pretty distinctive line for the first (from the tip) joint which is nearly not there in the reference and the highlight should be smaller in the middle.

And you know that his hands in the middle are touching each other in the reference and you have a gap in the drawing, plus on the right hand (his left) index and middle fingers are, in comparison to the eyes, a tad short. (This does really not need attention but I wanted to be superpicky and let you know that "you can't sneak anything by me :evil: :evil: :evil: ".

I wrote before with my comments for Connie, I'm glad you don't know where I live :evil: :evil: :evil: :wave: :D :angel:

Mary Woodul
05-21-2005, 10:18 AM
I wrote before with my comments for Connie, I'm glad you don't know where I live

Ha,ha, we'll find you. :evil: :evil: :evil:

Thank you Reinhard, I will take it to the ranch with me and your comments to see what I can fix. I think I was really off from the beginning of the drawing and that shows at the end. Lesson no. 1.........be sure to super check your outline.

See you all tomorrow and have a nice weekend. :wave: :D

llanpe
05-22-2005, 06:12 PM
Mary here you have a map, to help you find Reinhard :evil: :D :D
Peter

Mary Woodul
05-22-2005, 07:52 PM
Hi Peter, I was wondering where everyone had gone. Thank you for the map, it will easier to find him. :evil: :evil: :D Vale! :wave:

cmwynn
05-22-2005, 09:01 PM
Reinhard - I am surprised you didn't just throw up your hands is disgust and declare me impossible. You probably will not believe I have spent at least 6 hours today re-working both versions, the first so shiny in places that it will no longer accept pencil. The second will have to stand for now, I think I will break down in I spend any more time on it, though of course it still isn't right. Even this one won't erase in places. It is time to move on to something else. Please tell me the new lesson isn't this hard.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-May-2005/29839-Thomas_v7.jpg

Mary Woodul
05-22-2005, 10:08 PM
Connie, in your style, I think you have done a very good job of likeness and application of the grafite. I like the way you did the hair. He is really very cute. :clap: :clap:

JayD
05-22-2005, 10:24 PM
The next class will be fun and will offer you a bit of a breather. I am finishing writing it now. Just adding in the links.

Reinhard1
05-23-2005, 06:52 AM
Connie, why in the world should I? You did great. :clap: :clap: :clap: It is quite an improvement. I will honour your request to not go too deep in little things I still see. One tiny recommendation which will be easy to implement. I take it that you have a "circle template". If not, get yourself one and just circle the irises perfectly round. This will influence the likeness very positively. Except that, leave as is. You did a recommendable job and if we were able to help, I'm sure I speak for all, it was a pleasure having been a part in your artistic journey abd achievement.

Fireman's kid
06-02-2005, 10:21 PM
Okay, just so you all know I haven't given up (but believe me I've wanted to!), here is the most recent outline of my Abigail drawing. What I have been doing is overlaying the drawing on the reference in Photoshop then printing it out. I use this printout to correct my lines by seeing that it needs to be a little thinner here or the line needs to be straighter there...etc. Once I have made all of my corrections I rescan and do a new overlay. I think I did this a total of 2 times for the body and head outline. I haven't done any corrections on the facial features yet, but I did look at the overlay so I can tell you what needs to be changed.

The body is close and I will only make very minor changes to it. For the face, all the features need to be moved to the left a bit. Her left (our right) cheek is too fat as is her head on that side. (It should not stick out past the ear.) Her eyes also may be a bit too big and her mouth definitely needs to be smaller as does her chin.

Before you think that I have become extraordinary at critiquing, remember I already overlayed this drawing on the reference. :( I described it to my husband as high tech tracing. It irritates me that this is what I need to do, but it seems it is what I need to do. I only hope that I can do the shading without all the high tech stuff. My goal is definitely to be an artist who doesn't need to rely on tools, especially not this heavily.

So I'm sure you can tell that I am still in my funk and not too happy with myself. But plugging away none the less.

Here's the update...
(PS. I darkened the lines in PS so they would show up on the screen. :) )

Judi1957
06-02-2005, 10:57 PM
Hi Stacy! :wave:
I am glad you haven't given up! I see the things that you are saying that are obvious w/o the ref, so I am sure you are on the right road.
Don't be irritated that you needed to do this, it's what is working for you at this time, come one day you will probably not need to do all of the overlays-we will all be just like Jolanta, JayD and Reinhard in the keen eye department.
I will be anxious to see your futher progress-I do remember this from the ref-Abigail is a beautiful young lady-and I am confident you will do a fabulous job. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Fireman's kid
06-03-2005, 09:12 AM
Hi Judi! Thanks both for your comments and your confidence. I am determined to finish this no matter what. I just hope that after all this struggle I am happy at the end. :rolleyes:

I just noticed from your comments that I forgot to repost the reference...opps! I meant to but I was hurrying to get off the computer so hubby could do what he needed to do. Luckily our new laptop is on its way to us as I speak so by next week sharing should be much easier. (We'll have one computer for each of us! :D )

Here is the sketch and reference together...

sultry
06-03-2005, 10:19 AM
Stacy, Wow great job in getting the initial line sketch in. :clap: :clap:
I want to comment on the use of the layover, for a long time I was afraid to use it because I felt it would not be me, it would be like tracing. I have come to discover that is NOT the case at all. Because, it is just a tool to enhance our renderings. When I realized this, I now am happy with my latest work. I will be posting my update sp soon in class 18. You will see what I mean.
There is so much more for us as unique artists to apply to our pieces that makes them one of kind and shows others that we ARE the artists we strive to be. We strive to learn to push the darks so there will be 3d contrast. We strive to apply the stroke so it will give more of a believable look. So, Please do not be discouraged by the layover method gf. I use it now and I still miss things, even with that. I do not use a grid (to lazy to draw the lines) so I use the best thing and that is my photo program. I think whatever can help us to get a likeness is not going to change us as a artist (from when we first started to draw). See, it is another useful artist tool (just like a pencil and a eraser is) only difference is, it is a helping tool for our eyes is all.
Let me explain why I wanted to improve my art skills. I did not want to become a famous artist or sell expensive pieces. I was happy to just produce heirlooms for family & freinds. My main goal was to render my family in beautiful likeness portraits when I started this 101 course. I feel that if layover is improving my portraits, then it is a positive thing in my journey to become a better artist.
If my family can look at my renderings and smile and say I know who that is or I am so flattered you did this for me. They do not care how I did it, they only know I took the time and love to do it for them. That is why I use my layover tools.
edited to add a quote I wrote in Stoy's Question thread "What is your artist statement?"back in Oct 2004....
Hi Stoy and everyone,

I am a new WC fora member and I am a self taught artist and I have just joined the 101 class here on WC.

Below I have answered the questions.

Stoy I would like to thank you for this because it has finally made me realize why I like being me and why I like to create art.



1.Why do you like to make art?

It soothes my soul. In life only a few things can make one feel content be it, religion, love, pets and hobbies. Art is one of them for me.

2.What subjects do you prefer? Why?

People & animals. Because I can draw the eyes and I think the eyes show the feeling I am trying to bring across to the viewer.

If I do any still life it must show the dramatic touch from my pencil; pen or paint brush by how my strokes were applied on the blank paper.

3.What processes and techniques do you use? Why?

Not sure what this question is but I can say that I use what makes my artwork come alive and put aside what makes it look unfamiliar to what I am trying to portray to the viewer.

4.How is your work different from others?

I feel art is as unique as ones finger print and that said, my art work will always be unique and different from anyone else.

5.What do you see in your artwork?

I see my soul; my love; my sorrow and dreams and fantasies.

6.What do other people say they see?

They have told me they see what I want them to see. Some see just lines making a picture.

7.What are your goals and aspirations as an artist?

At one time I wanted to be a successful artist so I could live off my artwork. Now I do not want that as much as I want this…

I want to create masterpieces I can feel proud of to hang in my family and friends not to forget also my home.

I want to have them there so my children and grand children will admire and also want to use their gifts to create as well.

So they can also, discover how to fulfill their soul with the peace and contentment as I have learned from it.

8.Who or what inspires you?

Other art work similar to what I want to achieve & the Soul & Beauty

bjcpaints
06-03-2005, 12:30 PM
Excellent start Stacy! I will show you my pathethic ones here:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3578676&postcount=1
I will try again this weekend and hopefully have something decent to post in the class.
Barbara

Fireman's kid
06-03-2005, 01:03 PM
Thanks for looking Barbara!

Your's are not pathetic at all - especially for only an hour each. If you only knew how much time I have put in just on the outline. :rolleyes: But I'm trying to stop worrying about speed and focus only on quality. This would be easier to do if I was happy with the quality of my drawings. :D

When things feel really bleak I remind myself that at least I am still working on the lessons and posting. Lots of people who joined in the beginning no longer post. At least I haven't given up yet. :)

bjcpaints
06-03-2005, 01:22 PM
Thanks Stacy. I think the lack of time is the most frustrating thing about learning to draw. It obviously requires long hours of practice. Well, its not happening by osmosis! LOL I guess if we stick with it we have to improve!
Barbara

sultry
06-03-2005, 05:26 PM
I agree with Stacy, Barbara you have done well for yourself in one hour. My work takes weeks to do and even then I go back and work on them again. :)

bjcpaints
06-03-2005, 05:50 PM
Thanks Sultry and for your comments in class 18. I know that drawing will never be my 1st medium. I do not have the desire and drive to put the time in. I'm one with a shorter attention span. Instant results from paint!
Barbara

sultry
06-03-2005, 05:54 PM
lol wow that was a quick response gf. Hey I love your profile pic you look so happy with your adorable pooches. They are sure nice to have ( I envy you and all dog & cat owners, Carmelo will not let me have a furry pet):(
Anyways, I am all for the painting and you do have a knack for giving your subjects a touch of BJ that is all unique and just YOU. The rock pets are one of my favorites of yours and they have such personalities that show through.

anniesmith
06-06-2005, 02:47 PM
:wave: Well, here I am, where I don't think I'm ready to be yet, buy might as well take the plunge...

I have to do a drawing of my son that's to go into a wedding scrapbook. I also need to have this done in a little less than 3 weeks. :eek: :eek:

The folks who asked me to do this would probably be happy with anything I could come up with, but I'd honestly like it to be a little better than that. Having said that, I would be thrilled to death to get any comments and criticisms you all feel I could use.

At first I was panicking over what I have to use for a reference photo, because what I was looking at online was very out of focus, and the colors have faded a great deal over the last 25 years. But when I dug up the original, I decided it's not too bad as far as focus, and at least I'm not dealing with having to re-create a torn-up photo! And as far as colors, this is going to be graphite anyway.

I've started a sketchy outline on some printer paper, just to get an idea of where I need to place everything. I plan to transfer this to better paper when I get really serious about it.

Oh, and since the scrapbook page it will be going on is 12 inches by 12 inches, I figure I'm pretty safe if I stay in the neighborhood of something 8 x 10.

Now that I have this up on my screen here I can definitely see that I've gotten the shape of his mouth very wrong. Please excuse me while I run stick my head out the door and scream (again). :D

Judi1957
06-06-2005, 10:51 PM
Hi Annie!
Three weeks to the wedding and you are doing a portrait! :eek: :eek:
Ahhhh Annie-you can do it and you have a good start! I am glad you are doing this for them-perfect timing with Class 19. We can hopefully get Jolanta (the Queen of Critique) and Reinhard (the King) and the crew in here to help.Yes to correcting the mouth. Watch the swirl at the left side of the eye on the left. Re-check the jaw line and shape of the chin. I know you are just roughing out-but I know if I don't see it early on-I carry my error thru, so I am commenting.
This is looking good-what a sweetie-is he your only?(I'm nosey!)
Attaching a greyscale as I don't know if you have one.

anniesmith
06-07-2005, 03:30 PM
:wave: Thanks for the greyscale, Judi! A big "and how!" on the way errors carry through if I don't catch them early on. I think I've managed to do a boo-boo like that with every assignment I've had so far!

We have 4 boys (no girls). The oldest (28) and youngest (19) are mine, the middle two are my husband's sons, so really just my stepsons. There were no Barbie dolls at our house! :D This guy I'm doing the portrait of is our oldest. We just married off the second-oldest last August. Yup, two weddings in one year. :D

I spent maybe an hour and a half this afternoon trying to put your suggestions to use. Not having too much luck with that mouth, and now I think I've really messed up the eyes, but at this point it's probably better to just walk away from it for a few hours. I don't want to get myself frustrated because it seems like I end up making no progress at all if I do that.

When I first e-mailed JayD in total panic over this, he suggested that I also post this in the main D/S forum and also over on the Portrait Forum. :eek: Don't know if I'm brave enough to do BOTH of those!

Anyway, here's the latest update. Fire up that red pencil! :evil:

jmfletch
06-07-2005, 07:38 PM
First off, can everyone else see the posted images? On most of the posts I see an empty box labeled "Attached Thumnails" but no image on others the image is embedded??????? :confused: :confused:


Okay I need to apologise because I am posting this without commenting on the images already posted, but after a 3 week absence I am scrambling to catch up!:evil: I promise I wil go back and read this lesson as soon as I get this posted!!!

I know that the portrait is not 100% faithful to the reference but I took some artistic license especially with the cat.:D

Joe

Edited to add: I sure hope y'all can see these cause I can't!!!!!:mad: :mad:

Judi1957
06-07-2005, 07:54 PM
Hey Joe :music: -Long time no see! :wave: :wave: So glad you are back and i hope your fingers are all healed (read class 20)

I love this-she is beautiful! :clap: :clap: As you took artistic licence I will only comment that maybe open her eyes a bit and square of her lower lip a tad. Some more contrast in the wooden floor would be good to add-though you did a great job on the grain!

The only images I have not been able to view are the ones posted just before the great WC Blackout of 2005. I think Sults had the same problem as you-maybe you would like to pm her to see how this was resolved...just a suggestion..I know she has been able to view images lately.

Nice to have you back! :D Missed you a lot!