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Dark_Shades
05-04-2005, 03:06 PM
........ Some of you may already know through reading my postings, that an Avid Art Collector had bought quite a number of my works ..... obviously very pleased but hadnt really thought much of it.... but just thrilled to have Sold so many works.... the other day I got an email from an artist who said that they had seen my works hanging in the New York Art Gallery!!!!! and went on to ask me questions about my style, technique etc.. but lol, of course I became very interested in asking my OWN questions.......
New York Gallery!!...... show me...... where..... how
so being nosey :) ...... I asked the buyer if they could possibly send me some pics....
I sell all my works with out mats or frames........ and they sent me a few photos...... Ive asked them if I could have a couple of pics of the gallery itself...... so I shall have to wait and see if they do.... and will post them

........ you may remember some of these.....
Also the buyer informed me that they are now collecting a number of my works so that I can become an "Artist of the Month" ...... will keep you posted on that score too, if I hear more....
A couple of weeks ago they bought more and currently trying purchase 3 others :D

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-May-2005/12116-FruitF.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-May-2005/12116-HorseF.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-May-2005/12116-BalletF.jpg

ArtsiePhartsie
05-04-2005, 03:10 PM
CONGRATULATIONS to YOU!!!! Oh my goodness...you must be SOOOOO excited. This is very very exciting for you as well as ALL of us here! It just goes to show, all the hard work and dedication pays off! I'm inspired. Thanks for sharing! :clap:

~Artsie

Paula Ford
05-04-2005, 03:17 PM
That is ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC!!

C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S

Just remember us when you are rich and famous!!

Paula

Khadres
05-04-2005, 03:23 PM
Good deal! Glad it turned out so well! It's always nice to know your work's not lost in some dark back hall somewhere! Keep us updated on events as you hear of them!

HarvestMoon
05-04-2005, 03:25 PM
What a huge accomplishment and every artists dream! Way to go! Wish I lived closer to NY I would go see them! :clap:

angecald
05-04-2005, 04:34 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap: Hey, Dawn, what a feather in your cap! And it must be nice to know you have future sales to look forward to as well. :) You deserve to be rewarded for all your hard work. Congratulations.

Kathryn Day
05-04-2005, 04:41 PM
Dawn, Congratulations! They are framed and matted beautifully. Now you need to up your prices to match your renown.

Bringer
05-04-2005, 04:42 PM
Hey !

I'm happy for you. Happenings like that make us aim to being better.
My works are not good enough for the N Y Gallery...but...what about for the Muppet Show ? :D

Regards,

Bringer

Kathryn Wilson
05-04-2005, 05:53 PM
WOW Dawn! Congratulations! :clap: :clap: :clap: The matted works look wonderful - a credit to the artist.

Has this Gallery ever attempted to get in touch with you to represent you - I gather they are buying paintings from you outright, then selling them at their own prices???

*Marina*
05-04-2005, 06:01 PM
Congratulations. Must be a lovely feeling.
As I said already in the thread in the pastel studio, somebody is earning money on it and that is not you. I bet the gallery will ask a lot more. Put your prices up!

Greetings

daftun
05-04-2005, 07:08 PM
:clap: :D Dawn CONGRATULATIONS you must be so chuffed and you certainly deserve it your paintings are beautiful but i agree put them up a bit
Della. :cat:

Adriela
05-04-2005, 08:52 PM
I don't know you, but having looked at your work I have to say it absolutely deserves to be hanging in a New York gallery. It's just exquisite. I wish I could see them close up. Many good wishes and congratulations..

Adri

Westerngirl
05-04-2005, 08:52 PM
How exciting! They look terrific. Congratulations! :clap:

CindyW
05-04-2005, 09:45 PM
Dark_Shades, could you tell me a little about this? Can someone buy your work and then sell it again for most likely more? I've never sold anything, not having anything to sell, but I didn't know galleries bought paintings to resell. I thought they took 40-60 percent when a painting sold.
I am happy that your works are hanging in a gallery, that is fantastic! I just want you to get what you deserve for payment for them.
Thanks for any info you have!

Trilby
05-05-2005, 12:03 AM
Dawn, this is just wonderful news :clap: x10
It's exciting to have someone so interested and taken with your work. I too am wondering how they got to the gallery and how much is the gallery selling them for? Definitely time to be upping your prices, which I have thought were way too low to begin with. Might you contact that gallery to deal with directly?
These examples of the work are beautiful. I especially like the ballarina's foot. They matted and framed them beautifully.
TJ

jackiesimmonds
05-05-2005, 04:17 AM
Dawn, do you know the name of the gallery? If so, you could call them, or get someone to call them, and ask the prices of the works. You really should know this, it is very important for you to know what your work is being sold for. You are entering the realms of the professional artist, and as such, you need to keep a check on the value of your work ... which is not the value YOU place on it, but the value the gallery places on it and gets in an open market.

J

meowmeow
05-05-2005, 09:40 AM
Wowee! Wowee! You are getting so big for your britches, lady! I am so proud of you...congratulations!
And what Jackie says is right...I certainly would want to know!
Good for you!!!!!! Yay!!!!
WE knew you when! Yep!


Sandy

Bill Foehringer
05-05-2005, 09:58 AM
Wonderful news Dawn. Your hard work is reaping you just rewards. BillF

Dark_Shades
05-05-2005, 06:03 PM
Hello All ..... many thanks for your kind comments, and good wishes... and Im really glad some of you brought up these comments..... because you saved me after posting it, raising some embarrassing questions :o

I will try and address all the comments and questions in one swoop .....
other questions were raised about pricing after posting my painting Cat Nap (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268437) ........ I think both threads have invaluable information ...... and could help others in future situations... special thanks to Jackie for her insight, knowledge and input - you are making me think... and many thanks for the answers :)

As I said at the beginning, this collector has about 10 plus and possible more coming ...... obviously thrilled to bits about someone, anyone buying my art... and then to have them in a Gallery..... AND New York.. !!! - Priceless !!!(pardon the pun :D ) ...... my initial question was going to be...... Does this Mean anything for Me????? :o ... Because I have already Sold the work as is...... so ANYTHING they care to try and sell it for is there own (Profit) ....... nothing more to do with me ....... though I believe I still own the copyright....

but time I finished posting .... I already really knew the answer...... no, not really...... though, it would look good on my resume or website... so I will take comfort from that.... AND...... its a learning curve..... to me and any others reading .... the advantage I have now, is knowing that they want further work so as to 'Feature me as an Artist of the Month".
Problem I have ... is not knowing, when or what they would buy... and just buy after browsing where I may have my work listed.... My Website.. EBay... MiniGaller.. Artbyus... so there Ive already shot myself in the foot by having it already priced... for easy pickings...
Yes, I now know the name of the Gallery, only by accident from the email I got from the artist... and found further info on the net about it.. Im still waiting to see if I get photos of the place... I know they have sold some, though they didnt or wouldnt disclose for what value......
Ha! last night after a few or your replies..... I whizzed round all my listings and doubled the prices ha ha ha ..... and then came back and finished reading, only to find that they are still no way near what you guys are telling me to price at.... I suppose I dont believe in myself or my work to price them as such... and couldnt believe someone would buy them at that.... but hey! ... I might as well Not Sell them at a HIGH price than Not Sell them at a LOW price hee heee :D

Jackie: I really appreciate your comments here..... making me rethink.....

Does anyone want to phone this number for me :) phone 315.536.6007 .. I think my accent might give me away lol .....

The another thing that has been brought to mind is the other avid collector I have.. she has been perhaps, more forthcoming and open... she's phoned me a number of times from California, and has mentioned about putting me into a Gallery.... she had said that my works would sell currently for around
$300-$500.00 in the Gallery........ so this just compounds what Jackie has said in the Cat Nap thread... and of course applebee...... some one is getting Rich and it sure aint me lol ........ Ohhhhh Im feeling rather down about it all now..... as comments from the afore mentioned collector said in email to me...... and these prices, they are a steal!!!! wahhhhhhh, ha! they even had the cheek to ask for a free one, as had bought so many..... did think about it, and then thought about it again, and came back with a reply... "at these prices Im giving them away"...... and sure enough it would seem I am..... wahhh

The Collector from California has also mentioned about me making or obtaining 'Certificates of Authenticity' .... not quite sure what that is all about...... and the other day asked me to do a statement of Accomplishments to date.. ....... but still nothing more about 'the gallery'

..... perhaps this is a new breed of gallery ...... (though I have no knowledge of a conventional one and how they would operate) ....... where they surf the net for cheap affordable art and sell it on at huge profits..... hmm nice little business.... ha! we are all obviously in the wrong game..... wrong side of the counter :wink2:

There always has and always will be alot of discussion about pricing....... how does one go about it, come to a figure...I wonder if we could all help each other out here..... is there a place we could go on site discuss individual works ..... or possibly post a poll with our threads...(always wanted to do one of those :D ) ..... next painting I post to have a poll .... click value you think should sell at..... Kat what do you think... is this a viable/worthy option....

better get off and re price my Non selling Works :D

Paula Ford
05-05-2005, 09:11 PM
...There always has and always will be alot of discussion about pricing....... how does one go about it, come to a figure...I wonder if we could all help each other out here..... is there a place we could go on site discuss individual works ..... or possibly post a poll with our threads...(always wanted to do one of those :D ) ..... next painting I post to have a poll .... click value you think should sell at..... Kat what do you think... is this a viable/worthy option....

better get off and re price my Non selling Works :D

That's a great idea!! We all want to know how to price our paintings, and it would be fun too!! Wait until Carly and Kat get back and see what they say about it.

Paula

jackiesimmonds
05-06-2005, 05:17 AM
Dawn, I do hope someone will take you up on that telephone number, and help you out by asking the prices for you. There are enough WC people who could do this, that you know......if no-one comes back to you, why not ask someone privately, someone you have lots of chats with.

$300-$500 means approx. 150-250. This is still quite low, imho, but perhaps if the pics are very small, then the lower price may be OK, and if they are larger, the higher price is maybe ok. I do not know what prices pictures sell for in the USA, my suspicion is that they may not be, funnily enough, quite as high as they are in the UK, for a similar piece. This may be because framing costs in the US are vastly higher than they are here.

You need more information. It is really important to know what the NY gallery is selling your work for. If it is selling at these low prices, then perhaps you may not be able to push for a LOT more. If the prices are considerably higher, then you know you are able to increase your price a bit.

You could decide that if you work with a gallery, you keep your price to them fairly low, IF they buy in quantities ... but then you gradually raise your prices to the general public to be more in line with the retail price from the gallery.

I wish you lots of luck with this. It is great to have work in a NY gallery, good for you. Time to get it into a UK gallery or two, too. Just think - I am a signature member of the Pastel Society of America, and I don't have MY work in a US gallery :envy: - you are going great guns!! From little acorns, Dawn.................. :clap:

Jackie

dddiam
05-06-2005, 03:03 PM
Framing can dramatically affect the price.

I was just looking at a magnificent 24" x 36" oil painting seascape with rolling, back-lit waves, and beatifully lit and shadowed rocks. It was priced at $240 in a simple black and gold frame, or $150 in a walnut frame. Quite a difference. Many galleries, and artists, use elaborite frames, which are quite costly. Fancy frames can be a few hundred dollars, themselves. Galleries just add the frame cost to the artwork cost (and then double it). So the display venue also affects the price.

And, at the other end of the spectum, I have seen some of my instructors' watercolors priced at $6,000 in a fairly simple frame.

Pricing is tough. But, in your case, someone is creating a market for you, and that will determine the price.

jackiesimmonds
05-06-2005, 03:37 PM
Framing can dramatically affect the price.

I was just looking at a magnificent 24" x 36" oil painting seascape with rolling, back-lit waves, and beatifully lit and shadowed rocks. It was priced at $240 in a simple black and gold frame, or $150 in a walnut frame. .

surely this is the price of the frame, not the picture in the frame. That would be too ridiculous for words. It isn't worth painting a 24x36 for $150 - unless you are working in some sweat shop in Taiwan churning them out. The canvas would cost half of that, probably.

*Marina*
05-06-2005, 06:55 PM
I am still amazed about the low prices, $ 150 to $ 300. Amateurs in Holland ask already a lot more and are selling. Think about the cost of your materials, courses and working hours.

After I made my first few pastels my teacher started talking about selling. I was flabbergasted (do you spell it like that?) about the amounts he mentioned. He was talking in the $1000 to $1500. I looked at him in disbelief. He himself started too low and found his paintings later in auctions at at least ten times the price he got for them.

He said better sell a few at good prices than many too low so that you hardly earn on it.

It must be very difficult to decide what to do. I wish you good luck and I am sure you will make the right decision in the end.

Enjoy the pleasure of having your pictures in a gallery. It must be a great feeling that your work gets appreciated.

Greetings

meowmeow
05-06-2005, 07:17 PM
I think that what everyone is saying is valid, that you should not underprice your work.
On the other hand, you do have to consider prices in your particular area and what the market will bear....and how new you are at it all, as in how well known your are.
I know where I have been selling, in Southern Maine at outdoor shows, if you put more than a couple or few hundred dollars on a painting you can count on taking it home with you. I agree that $250 for an oil painting that size seems low but maybe it isn't for where it was being sold. I would think several hundred dollars around here would not be unreasonable, but unless you are an incredibly well known painter you will not get in the thousands.
If you are selling in most galleries then you are dealing with commissions and that's a whole other ball game. But that is not the type of gallery situation that Dawn has here...these people are buying the paintings.
For an unframed pastel by someone who is not known, depending on the size, the a couple of hundred dollars does not seem unreasonable from what I have seen. If it is not too large, then even $100-$200 would not be a bad price....I'm talking about maybe an 8x10 painting unframed...and frankly less would not be uncommon for an unframed piece.
I know people will argue that those are low prices, but the fact is, around here you just will not get more. :(

Sandy

Trilby
05-06-2005, 08:49 PM
In this part of Arizona, a quality pastel, meaning one with generally good art principles in evidence, good technique of the medium and some level of maturity and sophistication in execution goes for $1.00 to $2.00 per square inch, then add in the frame. so an 8x10 would be anywhere from $80 to $160 unframed, an 11x14 from $150 to $300. Artists with a following may charge one to two hundred more. If in a gallery where there's a 50% commission the prices are a bit higher, depending on what traffic will bear.
In the Art Association Gallery, the commission is only 20% raised recently from 10%, so it's a good deal. We have one very fine pastelist of many years experience who charges $150 for her 11x14s. Many of us are encouraging her to double her prices or more, because, 1) she needs to respect her work more, 2) it's awkward for those who hang next to her with a higher price, so we feel she needs to respect the market as well and the work of other artists with appropriate pricing.
I gritted my teeth and overcame my tendency to take the low road on pricing and set my prices at $1.50 a square inch on the work I've hung there in the show. While my work is still inconsistent, the 3 pieces I've entered into the judged show is quality and stands up to the others hung there so though I felt I ought to price at the give away numbers, since I'm new in this market other artists shook their heads and said NO!
Now, Dawn, your work is exquisite. It is very artistically mature and sophisticated, and you have a following. Respect it and yourself. You deserve a good deal more from your work than I do from mine at this time.
TJ

dddiam
05-06-2005, 10:03 PM
surely this is the price of the frame, not the picture in the frame. That would be too ridiculous for words. It isn't worth painting a 24x36 for $150 - unless you are working in some sweat shop in Taiwan churning them out. The canvas would cost half of that, probably.

We have purchased some beautiful oil paintings in decorator frames for $70 to $250. These are not from NY galleries. They are from shopping mall galleries or traveling art shows.

We have a 60" x 48" oil painting that is the center of drama for our living room. It is unframed and hung by its stretcher. We found it at a mall gallery on sale for $270.

There are other paintings that we see in regular galleries that we love, but which are $1,500 to $4,000 and up. They are certainly worth the asking price, but are well beyond our means. We saw a reproduction at an art museum store for $15,000.

My point is simply that prices are all over the place. Many paintings are practically given away.

The watercolor for $6,000 was by James Toogood. He spent a solid two months of countless layers and fine detail on it. For the work that he put into it, and the nearly photo-realistic result, that is a fair price. And of course, he doesn't get the entire $6,000. A hefty commission comes off the top.

I agree with you that it isn't worth painting a 24x36 for $150. I would ask about $350 for one of my 11" x 15" watercolors, matted in an inexpensive 16" x 20" ready-made frame, at a show. Twice that if I would be just as happy if it didn't sell. I have never used a gallery, but a gallery might double my target price.

I don't know where the low priced paintings come from, but they abound.

HarvestMoon
05-07-2005, 12:49 PM
My pastel instructor sells her large works (framed and under glass) for around $850. My mother-in-law just went to a show in Baton Rouge, LA and saw some 'bright colorful pastels done with pastels and pastel pencils' (sorry, all the specifics she had- where they were priced at $1600. I would say the quality of your work is worth much more than $150-$300 ! Also check out this web site by National Geographic, mostly done to promote art from around the world- prices are unframed- not all are pastels, but worth looking at anyway- very beautiful and fun work here:

http://www.novica.com/art/paintings/index.cfm?c=4&l=3

Mikki Petersen
05-07-2005, 01:46 PM
Dawn, congratulations on drawing the interest of a NY gallery! I've long thought your work belonged in galleries for sure.

Now...my other thoughts...I think galleries are finding a wonderful opportunity to acquire art for their showrooms at rediculously low prices through E-Bay and other on-line virtual galleries for self representing artists who are pricing their work often for less than the materials required to create them. My thought is that you should contact them directly and find out if the information you have received is correct. If they wish to feature you as "artist of the Month" seems to me they should be working with you directly. Another thought is...just because the gallery is in NY does not mean it is reputable. Put your business head on girl and deal with this as you would with something you are not so emotionally involved with.

Regardless of the quality of the gallery though, your work is still being displayed in a gallery in one of the art capitals of the world. Good for you! Now just don't let them run all over you.

Mikki

jackiesimmonds
05-07-2005, 04:14 PM
Dawn, some wise words in the post above.

And working backwards...I am slightly horrified at the idea of pricing paintings per square inch. We are not producing fabric here, or wallpaper, for heaven's sake And no matter the size, some images are simply better than others and worth more. The artist should trust his or her own judgement on this. My rule is never to sell a painting for a price I would regret - better to keep it than sell and regret it.

I once put a painting into an exhibition, and asked a huge price for it - several thousand dollars. At the private view, someone came up to me and asked why that picture was more than double the price of all the others, when it was the same size. My answer was that it was the best one in the show, I was very proud of it, and I didn't care if it didn't sell, I would happily keep it, it was a landmark painting for me. He said, well, too bad, I'm buying it. I bet he would not have done so if it had been priced the same as all the others.

So - if I had worked per square inch.........

need I say more?

Dwn this thread has been interesting, and you should have learned quite a lot from it which will help you.
J

Dark_Shades
05-07-2005, 04:45 PM
I have been here just the other side of the screen all day ;) , and popping in ........ I do think this has become a WEALTH of Information, for everyone, not just me...... so I hope people will 'RATE' the thread for further help to others... am sure alot of people will benefit from it .....
I really do appreciate everyones time and effort and contributions - the input has been truly amazing and food for thought ...... :clap: :clap: :clap:
Thank you Jackie..... Sandy.... Mikki..... TJ....dddiam... purples....applebee
.... so we could say, by summarising.... :

1. Know Your Art's Worth
Compare other Artists Standard of work against your own, and their pricing
2. Know your Marketplace
Check the type of venue you are selling at - what type of Customer could it encourage
3. Know your Buyer
Joe Public, is a Multiple Buyer a Collector/New Age Gallery. Conventional Galleries stipulate the price 4. Go with what your heart tells you, what feels right for you

Pars
05-07-2005, 05:04 PM
Dawn, I don't post in Pastels, but inasmuch as I admire so much work here I do lurk to see what's happening.

I am in NYC, and the 315 number isn't local here; we have 917,718, 212 and 647.

If you'd like I'll ring, but do you have the name of the gallery. I could track it down and my accent is perfekt!


PS - I found 315; this is a huge area in Upstate New York, in the middle of the State I believe with many artist communities - too many to repeat, but several towns I recognized.

Trilby
05-07-2005, 05:55 PM
Dawn, good summary, and lots of good exchange. Jackie, The per inch pricing is scarcely a hard and fast thing as pricing fabric by the yard might be. It is an objective standard for a starting place, just as pricing by the hour might be. If a piece is more complex, more unique, more whatever than other pieces, of course, it should be priced accordingly.Also, it is a good way to judge how to price different sizes differently. People don't realize how much larger an 11x14 is than an 8x10(80%) Dawn has been selling her work for pennies/hour and its time to sell it for its true value. (Which ,for whatever standard we use to be objective, is what the market will bear and what our heart will bear). But that's the great thing about this forum, a collection of all the different thoughts and experiences from all different regions out of which can be distilled what will work for the individual.
TJ

Dark_Shades
05-07-2005, 05:57 PM
Well I gotta give a BIGGGGGGGG hug to Pars..... whose called the gallery for me :eek: :eek: :D
....... and yup...... they are making a pretty packet out of me .... and lol this is BEFORE I went into the UK National Magazine... prices are going up further now :o

hmmmm *scratches head :D ....... well at least Im in the know now ...... Many Many thanks again Pars :wave:

Pars
05-07-2005, 05:58 PM
Well, I rang, perfekt accent and all and the gallery raved about Dawn's work.

She has all the details to share, but I wanted the group to know how much praise the Gallery had for her work, her skill and her sense of pastel perfection (or words to that effect).

I may be in the local area of this gallery during the summer (just outside Rochester), and if I do manage the trip, I told the gallery owner I'd ring up again and come see Dawn's work. They are a most accommodating and informed gallery; the owner is a former glass artist (not an easy skill to master).

Anway, congratulations, again, to you Dawn. The work is beautiful and success is well deserved.

Dark_Shades
05-07-2005, 07:06 PM
I was very proud of it, and I didn't care if it didn't sell, I would happily keep it, it was a landmark painting for me.

Jackie, Ive done the same self thing on a few of mine too, last year ....... landmark pieces..... I adored them.. still do :p ..... I had painted them the year before, so you can imagine what my pricing was like then lolol ... but you would of been proud of me :D as I stuck to my guns and got the price I had wanted (which is the sort of figure we have been talking about now) ..... they took a year to sell ......... I Miss them lol ... but I have the copyright, so have recently put them on to business cards and greeting cards :) ...... and strangely enough the person who bought them said, oh I dont buy certain subjects... replied thats a shame, as I have some really nice ones... told her about them, and because I was so enthusiastic about them, she promptly bought them all - no quibble with the price either

... Im still mulling over all that has been said and discussed..... and Ive decided that at least on my MiniGallery site, all prices are reflecting my achievements :) ..... the Magazine...... the Gallery ......
funnily enough some time ago was in a slump, and reduced all the prices....... nothing Sold..... so am putting them back up in conjunction with other artists works and that bit more....... feels better to not be selling at a better price ha ha ha ..

Dark_Shades
05-08-2005, 11:27 AM
Well, I rang, perfekt accent and all and the gallery raved about Dawn's work.

She has all the details to share, but I wanted the group to know how much praise the Gallery had for her work, her skill and her sense of pastel perfection (or words to that effect).

I may be in the local area of this gallery during the summer (just outside Rochester), and if I do manage the trip, I told the gallery owner I'd ring up again and come see Dawn's work. They are a most accommodating and informed gallery; the owner is a former glass artist (not an easy skill to master).

Anway, congratulations, again, to you Dawn. The work is beautiful and success is well deserved.


Awww.... thanks Pars.......... I Really do appreciate your kindness - Big Thank you ......



PS ...... in the Land of Plenty..... why is it that your frames are so expensive :confused:

binkie
05-08-2005, 03:29 PM
Dawn, W O W!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd say how incredibly wonderful it is for you , but it's your work that's incredible and wonderful!!!!!

:clap: :clap: :clap: I am sooooooooo excited and happy for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

binkie

meowmeow
05-08-2005, 04:04 PM
Terrific...so I assume Dawn that you now have the information we all wanted! :D Seriously..it should help you out.
I am really glad for you that things are going so well...you certainly deserve it.
I bet your floor under your bed never looked so clean....hmmmm.....do you have to dust there now? :lol

I find it interesting about the framing being more here...meaning I wonder if it is really that much less in the UK. If you have custom matting and framing done it is very, very expensive here. You can buy ready made acid free mats and some pretty nice ready made frames here for not nearly as much. It can still add up though and I know I get really bogged down in how to handle the whole thing. I never have them custom framed, cannot possibly afford it. I just had one painting "done" in the shop with a ready made frame though. It was about 16x20 painting and I couldn't find a nice ready made mat that size. So I took it in to have a mat cut (my cutter won't cut that large and frankly I didn't want to risk trying to do it). When I was there I found a nice, compatible ready made frame that worked with it. I figured at that rate I would let him do the whole thing. So it ended up about 20x24...I think the actual mat was a bit less than I thought because there is plenty of mat around the painting) and the whole thing cost me about $100. I am figuring to price it about $325 at the outdoor shows. To be honest, my guess is it will get raves, people will come into my booth and talk about how much they love it...but I will end up taking it home and hanging it up at the end of the summer because no one will spend that much. Is it worth $325? Probably it's worth more...but I don't know what else to do at this point. With $325 I won't feel badly if it sells but I won't sell it for less. It probably should be more like $500. But people don't really know me and from what I have seen, where I am selling, I won't get that much.
So...we'll see.
I think Dawn is feeling her way and doing well...and hopefully feeling pretty comfortable at this point with what she is getting...and over time will gradually raise what she gets.


Sandy

Dark_Shades
05-08-2005, 05:24 PM
Hello Binkie, where the heck have you been....... missed your Happy Cheer leading :) - thank you

lolol Sandy..... well I tell you, I was going back and forth with all the info.... and getting mighty confused.... thinking... ahh, I'll do it this way...... ohhh that way..... um, this way :confused: :D
But it has given me thought and the summary a game plan lolol
ha ha ha, lolol.... yes the box is behind me now... getting empty :wink2: and boy, what aload of dust bunnies up under the bed hee hee.. I really do need to clean under there :p

Well I have further news and enlightenment for you guyz :D ....... I just sold another painting on EBay...... a whopping 62.00/$118.00 woooo hoooooo lolol.. the collector was after it, and got outbid..... but this also shows me they are only willing to pay a certain price, regardless how collectable or sellable... its all determined on their Profit Margin ....... lolol where is the enlightenment Icon ..... lolol - this has really been a great eye opener for me .... I suppose Im rather naive and not to mention Blase - not thinking that being in the magazine and in the Gallery could also work for me ...... sort of just shrugged shoulders and thought.... thas nice Ha!

ha! Im sitting here with a conversion list :D ........ I have only had one custom made frame and mat - was for the picture of 'Sleeping Angels Wing', my nieces first born and was giving it to her as a Christmas Gift - was 9 x 12" and prob finished somewhere around 12 x 14" maybe slightly bigger with mats, if I remember correctly it cost me 20.00/$38.00
I was thinking more on the ready made frames.... we have some really lovely ones from about 4.99/$8.00 to 25.00/$40.00 ..... the thing Ive found hard to get is the mats for them, some of these frames already have ones included in them.... some shops sell mats to go in, but the choices of colour are very limited, and they are about 2.00/$4.00 (sorry am guessing these low dollars figures.. did go down so low on the conversion list lolol)
I presume you have surfed around for precut mats..... I bought a few from Dick Blick...... though I cant remember how much for....

Well good for you Sandy... if you heart tells you dont sell for less... then DONT!!, cos surely if you do you will really regret it

Normally I list my works on the MiniGallery higher than I would on EBay, and the recent downer was on, reduced them, hoping for a quick pick me up on Sales........ I didnt work, well I sold two, but though I was quite pleased having the Sales, as was less, it felt less if you know what I mean..... so now with all this valuable info and insight :D Ive whizzed round and put them all back up, and in more keeping with other artists... infact a tad more :evil: .... people can negotiate through Minigallery so always tend to get knocked down...... so this way Im ahead of the game lol, so if get knocked down, will get my real asking price lolol.... sassy or wot!!
EBay will be for quick Sales..... lesser works (hopefully) ..... um, this is where the plan falls down some what ha ha ha ....

Sandy, as for you, I do think you need to consider a professional online presence...... have you checked out my minigallery link.... they were opening a USA one, well at least considering it, and I know they had quite a bit of interest...... what was holding them up were the USA legalities - am sure it would be run the same as the UK one, and its the best online affordable professional presence I have come across.... very little investment on our part.... and then you could display your higher calibre works... I especially like Minigallery as they only charge the fee for the size of the website you want, which is governed by how many paintings you display.... one fee....... no commissions, so it doesnt matter the price you put on...... to display 10 works for the year is 25.00/$45.00 appx .... you can change the paintings as you wish at any time

meowmeow
05-08-2005, 05:44 PM
This is all really interesting...and ultimately I guess there is no absolute answer, no matter what.

I did look briefly at your minigallery thing Dawn and it looked interesting to me. I guess I kind of wondered how much you can really sell there...I was thinking of registering...but have not done so yet. The USA one is not open yet so not sure...but people who sign up early get a discount. So...I'll think about it.

If it was indeed $38 for about 11x14 custom frame then that is much more reasonable than here....at least any place I know of around here.

I know it is not the same but in many ways this is all similar to selling antiques. It is not your personal handiwork but as a dealer I have to know my stuff as well as know my market...and my place in the market. Hard to explain to someone who is not in the field but there are people who can get a lot more than I can for certain items and people who cannot get as much as me...in the shops, that is. Part of it is that over time people build a reputation as someone who knows their stuff and it makes buyers feel comfortable. Well, I suppose it is the same with artwork in a way...if you are more well known people fell more validated in spending the money. Art it very subjective and even if they like what you have painted, they may not feel really sure of themselves spending a lot of money buying a painting...especially at some outdoors how. But the one time I tried being a little gallery, the percentage they took was high, therefore the markup was high and I know for a fact they do not sell a lot of original art...they sell craty things and "prints"....and some artwork by people who have already been around for a while and have a following.
It seems like you can't win...well, I know it is not that bad but as we all know very well, selling orinal artwork is not easy. And if you start out with your prices too high you will not sell anything....so the advice to start a little lower and as you sell, to slowly raise your prices is good, I think.
And you have to know how the market is where you are exhibiting...I know probably in New York City my prices could be higher...but I am not in NYC.
Dawn, however is! :D Funny, how that worked out...but not funny since you are working at selling...maybe I should try eBay. Sigh...it is all hard to figure.

Anyhow...I am still really happy for you Dawn...this has been a really exciting year for you! And someof us can live vicariously through you and enjoy your fame and fortune!

Sandy

*Marina*
05-08-2005, 06:10 PM
Have you ever tried cutting the mat for your own pictures yourself. It is really quite easy once you get the hang of it. I use a Maped knife. There are lots and lots of different coloured acid free mats for sale here in Holland. I usually buy a ready made alluminium frame, available in a lot of different seizes. It is really worth looking into. Can save you a lot of money.

Greetings

meowmeow
05-08-2005, 06:23 PM
I do cut them myself on occasion, when I need to crop or something. But I have found that I can get ready cut mats so reasonably priced around here that it is worth it to try to keep the size within that and not be bothered. It is easy to cut them...but I find it tedious. And I am picky about them...they need to be done perfectly...which I don't always succeed in doing, especially when they are larger sized.

The metal frames are reasonably prices..but I like to be able to have the ability to put brown paper over the back and finish them off more professionally if I want to...the metal frames have those clips and don't seem as nice in the back...but it is a good, inexpensive solution.

Sandy

Dark_Shades
05-08-2005, 06:28 PM
lol this should be rated just for the length of convos in here :D

...... everything you say Sandy is so right..... even in EBay you have to start somewhere..... get feedback........ hey!..... well if you ever want to start let me know..... Im a Whizz kid now ha ha ha :D ....... but dont forget the Summary rules :) which we know... the rules are.... there are no rules..... just guidelines..... I put up a poll in the Soft Pastel thread... great fun, and even there amongst US Artists.. there is a divide on the pricing ..... but all very interesting

meowmeow
05-08-2005, 06:35 PM
I am sure a pro at eBay! :D Just have not ever sold artwork there...I thought about it a while ago but was not impressed with the prices I saw people getting...but maybe I'll look again.

I also just sent an email to the minigallery people. It is a little confusing about the USA one...they say they are starting on in 2005 and you get 1/2 off for the first 200 people to sign up or something...but I am hesitant to sign up for something that doesn't actually exist yet! :D Then again, it isn't that much money.
But I looked at your little gallery there and you seem to be going great guns...I am quite impressed.
Now you sell them all unframed there? DO I have that right? If so I think you are doing pretty well....or did the ones that sold go for less? I think that''s what you said.

Anyhow...yes this is a neat thread...at least I am finding it interesting and informative.


Sandy

tURBOCAT
05-08-2005, 07:17 PM
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

WOW AND DOUBLE WOW.

How did the galery find your paintings?

Johnnie

Dark_Shades
05-08-2005, 07:30 PM
I am sure a pro at eBay! :D Just have not ever sold artwork there...I thought about it a while ago but was not impressed with the prices I saw people getting...but maybe I'll look again.

I also just sent an email to the minigallery people. It is a little confusing about the USA one...they say they are starting on in 2005 and you get 1/2 off for the first 200 people to sign up or something...but I am hesitant to sign up for something that doesn't actually exist yet! :D Then again, it isn't that much money.
But I looked at your little gallery there and you seem to be going great guns...I am quite impressed.
Now you sell them all unframed there? DO I have that right? If so I think you are doing pretty well....or did the ones that sold go for less? I think that''s what you said.

Anyhow...yes this is a neat thread...at least I am finding it interesting and informative.


Sandy

well there ya go ...... you have got feedback already on EBay.. why not have a little flutter and gamble putting up works for the Price YOU want..... or keep an eye out for a FREE listing Day (cant loose that way :D) ..... gets you out there, generates an interest.... find out you have a website and all those goodies yet to be discovered..... who knows where it may lead

Yes, sorry, my figures are a little confusing now on my Minigallery... but I would hazard a guess that the ones I have Sold from there had averaged at about 60.00/$120.00 (not all that are shown as Sold were from the Mini Site)...... and those prices are now going up .... come hell or high water lol :evil: :D

Sandy if they are making special deals........ I bite their arm off, and get your self signed up ....... do you have to pay in advance? ....... they are really lovely people to deal with..... would you like me to speak to them further for you? - I personally would vouch for their integrity and honesty

HarvestMoon
05-08-2005, 07:48 PM
I read an article about an artist who sold a bunch of art each month on ebay- while his wife used a conventional gallery. I used to have a web site, and found that even a few years ago I could not sell things on ebay unless they were marked below the price I paid! So you got me how you actually sell on ebay and make money at it! I know a lot of artists have their own websites, but they don't seem to know that you have to promote them on the search engines for people to find them....

Dark_Shades
05-08-2005, 07:50 PM
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

WOW AND DOUBLE WOW.

How did the galery find your paintings?

Johnnie

Hi Johnnie.....
they originally found me on www.Artbyus.com last year, bought a painting, found out that I had more to sell from my website.... bought a further 5. Sometime later I emailed them to tell them I had more work..... they bought another 5...... and a couple of weeks ago they bought a further 6, Today they have been outbid on two on EBay, and are currently the highest bidder on another .... I hadnt realised until when I opened this thread that they actually had a gallery, I thought they were just an avid art collector...... :o :p .... I have another two who tend to collect my work, one I know buys for herself/friends/family/gifts (EBay) and she has just bought the one tonight I mentioned earlier ..... the other wants to open a gallery sometime in the future... but for now, she just hoards :D but she is more keen to pay for something that really speaks to her, she too found me on www.Artbyus.com, and had a similiar situation to the gallery, where she has bought quite a number from me - she is the one who has mentioned about her putting me into a Gallery and the pricing ... authenticity certificates........ she also calls me from California when she is particulary interested in a piece..... she has also bought from me from my Website and on EBay...... she leaves it to the last sec to buy lol - I also keep her informed now and again if I have new works..... dont wanna push it

Dark_Shades
05-08-2005, 08:10 PM
I read an article about an artist who sold a bunch of art each month on ebay- while his wife used a conventional gallery. I used to have a web site, and found that even a few years ago I could not sell things on ebay unless they were marked below the price I paid! So you got me how you actually sell on ebay and make money at it! I know a lot of artists have their own websites, but they don't seem to know that you have to promote them on the search engines for people to find them....


Well purples...... my philosophy <<<< is that right :) is....
Ive already paid out for my paper .... pastels.... my free time, is that, free ....
I could leave them in their packs and boxes and see no return....... or.. I could try and paint a picture that might sell .... just to keep it simple for me lol..... an example..... $10.00 for a pack of 10 papers... paint one picture and list it for $10.00 (it Sells).... Ive now got my money back on my paper outlay... still have 9 left to use...... I paint another..... may be better than the last... feeling lucky...... push for $15.00 ...... it sells.... Im now $15.00 in Profit, or could say... Ill off set that against the cost of my outlay on pastels..... I know have 8 sheets left.... list again, it sells for $10.00 and so it goes on, the more you paint the better you get.... then all of a sudden a super duper one pops out..... :D you sell it for $60.00
This is how I started out.... I was buying art supplies and using paper like it was going out of fashion....me and Dick Blick are on first name terms.... lolol I HAD to recoup some expense to carry on or give it up ..... the only option I had to get my work shown any where at the time was EBay.....(and very much so, still is)..... its been good to me - it now pays for all my art supplies, and Im showing a nice 4 figure profit, well I did until I spent it lolol

Im Not saying that selling on EBay is that easy...... though it really can be.... but ...... as lots of discussion ..... its a job in itself selling and promoting your work.... takes alot of time, perseverance and determination

prestonsega
05-08-2005, 10:35 PM
Wahoo, Dawn!!!! Nice ! :clap:

jackiesimmonds
05-09-2005, 08:10 AM
Hmmm - certainly seems like it is worth having a presence on MiniGallery and Artbyus, because quite clearly, gallery people look there!!!

I think your persistence is beginning to pay off - in spades. Good for you.

If you want to know about inexpensive ready-cut mounts, sent to you by mail order,(UK) let me know and I will pass on the details. I have no doubt they will be much cheaper than Dick Blick! ( You seem determined to buy from the US!!!!!!I am sure this does you no favours, price wise.)

Jackie

Dark_Shades
05-09-2005, 08:36 AM
Exactly....... if you arent out there.... how can they find you....... and you never know who is just going to happen through your internet doorway :)

.... and we also know from experience.... that you have to be in the right place at the right time with the right item .... price..... just because you dont sell this time, doesnt mean you never will.......... the revolution of the internet has changed the way we live.......... Artwise it is a Global Shopping Mall - make use of it!....... I think I have sold around 80+ pictures now, if I think how many I would of Sold without the internet.... it would of been at the most 4

well, as discussed before, I feel we have a very poor show in the UK for buying art supplies.... I cant be bothered to keep shopping from site to site picking up single items..... thats why I love Dick Blick can get all I want from one site...... but having said that..... I think there shipping costs have increased...... :eek: ....... so I might have to rethink my shopping habits :p
.... if the UK Art Suppliers got their act together, I would only be to happy to oblige and return their effort with my pennies :)

jackiesimmonds
05-09-2005, 03:45 PM
I get just about everything I need from Jacksons - who carry almost everything except a few brands of US-made pastels, and Wallis paper of course ... but then you know where to come for that now!

I reckon you can live without the US pastels, given that we have wonderful pastels here, so I can see no advantage in buying from the USA, unless you are there. I would dearly love to buy more Terry Ludwig pastels, for instance! I think they are superb.

mounts.... have a look at Brittania Mounts, they are excellent and SO inexpensive if you buy standard sizes. Even the cut-to-measure prices are far better than from a framer. If you call them they will send a brochure - 01484 854444, but I think they have a website too.

Jackie

Dark_Shades
05-11-2005, 03:30 PM
Well I thought I would update you with the latest news..... the gallery owner emailed me to let me know they have Sold another painting, and that their client is travelling up from NYC to view 3 others

... UM!!

meowmeow
05-11-2005, 04:52 PM
Holey moley, Dawn! I am surprised you are still willing to associate with us lowly amateurs! :D

Good for you!

By the way, I have not heard back from the minigallery people....maybe when they are closer to being ready to open the USA site I will hear.


Sandy

Dark_Shades
05-11-2005, 05:06 PM
Holey moley, Dawn! I am surprised you are still willing to associate with us lowly amateurs! :D

Good for you!

By the way, I have not heard back from the minigallery people....maybe when they are closer to being ready to open the USA site I will hear.


Sandy


Sandy...... would you like me to contact them for you ..... if there are any specifics you want to know... pm me the details

Paula Ford
05-11-2005, 06:36 PM
:music: :music: :music: :music:
YIPPY, Dawn is going to be rich and famous!!!
:music: :music: :music: :music:

soap
05-14-2005, 03:55 AM
My God - Dawn! I have just popped by and read through this thread - what an amazing story!!! Congratulations! So well deserved.

It is a strange story though - as you are not getting rich from this - no part of the gallery selling price goes to you, as in 'normal' galleries. But at least you get exposure and a great CV. But I do feel they are a bit 'dubious' as you don't gain from this - except selling to them in the first place. I think you indeed should raise your prices - even if only for them! LOL
But it's great news. It is so nice to see one of us develop into a success like this!

As to the pricing in this thread - ooh...I find this difficult! I have just reduced loads of my prices, but it seems to make not much difference. Only sold a couple of oldies.
I've been on minigallery for a while and have not had any interst via them. Had originals up first, then via a chat with the owners decided to change and put up giclee prints of the originals - nothing sold, no interest. Maybe I should put the originals back up.
Ebay has been good to me tough. But commission work is hard to find. I suppose word of mouth is the way, but I am not very good at it...

Congrats Dawn - this is soooo cool!!

Dark_Shades
05-14-2005, 06:40 AM
Hi Soap......

yup, not a 'conventional' gallery.... seems a 'new age' one :) .... and obviously a lucrative one to boot! - lol, I might try this avenue myself Ha! :D - well I do feel a bit short changed by them, but then again, they DID buy at MY asking price, so I havent any room to complain (bit like finding out that you have Sold something in a Boot Sale, only to see it in the Antiques Road Show, worth millions!!! - or that you have sold to a millionaire!! - a know they could have afforded alot more) ...... but they are Sales, and it Sounds Great on a CV.... also I now have the knowledge about it, so if my works should become more 'sellable' for them, then they will be contacting ME, not the other way round lol :evil:

As for Minigallery, they called me some time ago, Market research etc.... had a long chat with them...... one thing that came up was using the 'key word' search to its maximum potential, as that is what everyone will use to find works.... thought about it, changed some, and shortly after had two enquiries which led to Sales...... Change titles of works..... and rotate..... but I would definately put up your originals, you could always state you have prints else where.. revamp.....

Personally I dont care too much for commissions.......... too much pressure..... have enough of that on an every day basis lol

Kitty Wallis
05-18-2005, 01:28 AM
Hi Dawn, CONGRATULATIONS on your new sales and contacts.

My 2 cents:
I am bothered by the resentment I hear under the surface of a lot of the comments. This is not a good marketing attitude.

You priced them and sold them. You got your price. This is good.

Then you find that it's not a buyer, it's a gallery. And they are reselling them for a higher profit than 50% of their sales price. There is no rule against that. This is still good. They are openly praising your work, creating a market higher in value than the market you were creating with your humble attitude. An attitude many artists share BTW, since it is so hard to separate our emotions from the sale of our works.

Do not let people talk you into resenting this situation. You are still in charge; it's your work. Yes, you might have made more on the ones they bought...if you priced them higher, had networking in place that was in contact with more buyers...etc. The good news is, there are folks on the planet paying better prices for your work then you were willing to charge. This is very good.

meowmeow
05-18-2005, 09:44 AM
Those are some really good points, Kitty! I'm glad you made them. I know it is easy to fall into that trap of being angry with the galleries and anyone else who profits from our work.
But you just have recognize how it all works...and in the scheme of things I think what is happening with Dawn's work is a wonderfully positive thing. SHe is learning from it.


The other thing is that unfortunately, people buying art are frequently unsure of themselves. It is a very subjective thing. So they may be more comfortable paying a gallery more money since they assume (rightly or wrongly) that the gallery people know what they are doing. SOmehow the work has been vetted (which in a way it has).

To be honest, as much as I think Dawn's work is terrific, I am not convinced that any of us at the stage she is now is going to command big bucks for our paintings on our own. It is just a fact of life...you have to work up to it and this is one of the ways it can happen.

At least her name and her work is getting out there...she is getting some money and over time she will raise her prices and maybe eventually get more on her own or enough more from the gallery to make it seem worthwhile.

Sandy

Dark_Shades
05-30-2005, 05:01 PM
I just thought Id post a small update...... The Gallery Owner has just emailed me and asked if I would consider going over to New York in the Summer/Fall of next year - would like to feature me in their Gallery

OMG!!!

Paula Ford
05-30-2005, 05:32 PM
That is fantastic!! I'll meet you there if you want someone to go with you!!

Paula

Dark_Shades
05-30-2005, 05:42 PM
for sure Paula, would LOVE to ......

got one BIG Problem...... I dont like flying :eek: :( - just the thought of being couped up inside a plane for any length of time gets me panicking - let alone flying to New York ....... wahhhhhhh (have always wanted to go there too)

Pars
05-30-2005, 05:42 PM
Just a little NY minute: I received an email with 5 of your paintings attached, Dawn and it appears my interest in your work pushed the sales price up just between my earlier phone call (can't remember the date) and date of the email itself. I take what Kitty says quite seriously and perhaps the next paintings you sell to this gallery or elsewhere will be higher, and then still higher.

Good luck and do hope you'll make it to the States.

And, btw, another WC artist, plein aire, had or is having a show at this gallery this month I believe.

Kitty Wallis
05-30-2005, 05:46 PM
I just thought Id post a small update...... The Gallery Owner has just emailed me and asked if I would consider going over to New York in the Summer/Fall of next year - would like to feature me in their Gallery
OMG!!!
Dawn! That's wonderful! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Perhaps someone can visit the gallery for you to give you an onsite commentary of the place. I'd recommend that. I'd want to know all I can about the place.

Mikki Petersen
05-30-2005, 06:23 PM
Kitty's suggestion is a good one! As for the flying thing...bite the bullet girl...that's what God made valium for! How could you let some little fear stop you from such a wonderful experience as being featured in a New York Gallery????

Mikki

jackiesimmonds
05-30-2005, 06:26 PM
I freely admit it.....I do feel resentment when I suspect that galleries are taking advantage of artists, and this is a fairly good case in point.

I strongly feel that the relationship between a gallery, and the artists they represent, needs to be totally moral and fair. Yes, they paid the price Dawn asked for...but now they are selling for FAR more than the usual going rate that exists between gallery and artist, without allowing Dawn to share in this uplift in the prices. This seems immoral to me, and jolly UNfair.

By all means, Dawn, see this experience as a terrific stepping stone to recognition and success, but if you are beginning to have some kind of relationsip with the gallery, and they are dealing with you directly now, you need to have a fair share in the profits being made.

If you really hate to fly, why not suggest to them that you will provide them with sufficient work for a one-woman show, but you will send them the work rather than come over yourself. In any event, it will cost a lot to get to NY and I daresay they will expect you to pay your own way. Fares and hotels will certainly eat into any profit you may make.

You need to be business-like about this. Suggest that you will provide the pics, but negotiate a proper percentage this time, taking into account the fact that they will have to frame the work for you.

Good luck!

Jackie

meowmeow
05-30-2005, 06:53 PM
Wow! Whatever you decide, Dawn, this is exciting.


Sandy