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Wayne Gaudon
12-21-2001, 07:59 AM
Burnt Umber and Yellow Ochre .. are they warm or cold?

impressionist2
12-21-2001, 08:24 AM
Artist, I will be interested to hear the answers too. I always think of Burnt umber as somewhere between Raw umber ( cool) and burnt sienna ( a warm dark).

Yellow ochre I use as a cooling color ( even though it's yellow ) to mix, in place of a cadmium yellow when I don't want that warm intensity.

Maybe someone will correct me. I am open to it.

Renee

Patrick1
12-21-2001, 01:07 PM
Have a look at this artists' colour wheel:

http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/wheel.html

You can see that burnt umber has a relative hue of appoximately orange (same angle from center as orange), so technically it's a warm colour. Yellow ochre has a relative hue of approx. deep yellow (orangy yellow) so it too is a warm colour.

Renee, surprising thing: both burnt umber and burnt sienna are both very similar in relative hue
(a reddish orange) but the burnt sienna is closer to a pure orange, this is why it's lighter in value and more firey looking and looks quite different.

BTW, I found this artists' colour wheel so useful I printed it out and put it in a havy duty zip-loc bag with a piece of cardboard behind it to keep it from folding. I refer to it all the time.

Wayne Gaudon
12-21-2001, 01:15 PM
Thank you again.. best color wheel I have seen.. I will definately print this sucker off and frame it. A very valuable tool indeed.

sarkana
12-22-2001, 10:59 AM
as you've already discovered, the earths you referred to are warm. most earth colors are warm, with the possible exception of raw umber and lemon ochre. these last two are kind of "on the fence" in my opinion.

i'm more interested in why you need the answer to that very specific question...what's up?

Wayne Gaudon
12-22-2001, 11:50 AM
..actually not much .. I'm in the process of working with oils for the first time and in so doing I have been reading lots and trying to give myself a lesson in color theory as well .. just wanted to know the colors I will be working with and where they will fit into the scheme of things when I push them across the canvas.

Later,

Mario
12-23-2001, 02:00 AM
Context is everything...in color as in Language. What would it take to make a painting in which the addition of yellow ochre would be the addition of a very warm color? Think about it..it inspires the imagination...and how about one in which the addition of yellow ochre would be the addition of a very very cool accent...??
It's all relative in that complete little universe which you decided to create within the four corners of your rectangular painting.
There is no such thing as a "warm" nor a "cool" color without some other color sitting next to it....everything is in relationship and this decides how each functions.

aspiring artist
12-24-2001, 04:02 PM
This is an AMAZING color wheel!

http://www.handprint.com

I tried printing it out, as others have said they did - but my printer balked. Does anyone know how to purchase a copy of this color wheel? I'd be grateful for any follow up on this.
Thanks!

Einion
12-26-2001, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by artist
Burnt Umber and Yellow Ochre .. are they warm or cold?
Which brand and compared to what?

As you might know earths probably vary more across manufacturers than any other colours (see link at bottom). Burnt Umber is usually a deep, warm chocolate-brown colour, sometimes with a faint violet undertone but other examples are quite a bit lighter and warmer. Yellow Ochre is traditionally a slightly neutral dark yellow but it can have a slight green or orange cast depending on the origin of the natural pigment. Very often now it is made from synthetic pigment because of dwindling natural sources and as a result can more closely resemble Mars Yellow in character (i.e. more opaque, cleaner hued).

Anyway, regardless of variations when compared to a full range of hues both are warm colours, but both are cooler than say Cadmium Red Medium or Perinone Orange.

Originally posted by Mario
What would it take to make a painting in which the addition of yellow ochre would be the addition of a very warm color? Think about it..it inspires the imagination...and how about one in which the addition of yellow ochre would be the addition of a very very cool accent...??
Good example on the first one (after all there are any number of old paintings which used it as the sole yellow) but I don't think you could make a painting where Yellow Ochre functioned as a very very cool accent as it is too warm, cool-ER yes, but not very very cool :)

As mentioned by Renee and sarkana some people consider Raw Umber to be cool but this is not the case. It generally has a similar hue-angle to Yellow Ochre and can in fact be warmer than a Naples Yellow. Its lower value skews perceptions of its temperature, especially when placed against warm skin tones for example, making it appear much cooler than it actually is, a good example of context as Mario mentions. Even though I use and prefer W&N's which has a discernible green cast I have never thought of it as cool as I use it primarily to warm whites and to mix near-perfect neutral greys with Titanium White and Bone Black.

Patrick, not sure if you've ever spotted the <A HREF=http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/earthp.html>earth pigments tour</A> on Handprint, but it's a great like-with-like comparison and a better illustration of this point.

Einion