Basic 101: Class 18 - Drawing Portraits

[Mary Woodul]

Hi again! Judi your portrait looked good to me each time but it is really a beauty now. I erased the eyes in my portrait so tomorrow I will work on it and post a bigger picture. Something happened when I was uploading it and I had to keep making it smaller so it would upload.

Hi Connie, yes I think it is nice to see people's faces after trying to imagine everyone.

See you all tomorrow evening. Tomorrow we are going to a city two hours away, where my grandaughter was going for her therapy each week. The center for special children, is going to have a mass said for her tomorrow. I think it is a beautiful gesture. I will keep you with me there, Sults.

[Jolanta]

Hi Judi - this is very pretty drawing. I love to help you but I think you are too good to hold your hand all the time. I am watching you and you are doing super :clap: You look very good in blue girl. I don't know how you did it but even with this strong blue the background works. See how good you are :clap: I don't blame you, you like pastels - that's my love too :wink2:
Jolanta

[Anita Murphy]

Sults - Just wanted to say I was thinking of you.

[JayD]

Sults, Same here--keep at it, slugger--you will beat this.

Jo--thanks for handling the class--you have been very indespensable these last few weeks. I can tell that the class is very enthusiastic by your presence.

I will be out of town tomorrow as I have a business meeting to attend in Charlotte.

You are all doing swell and will comment when I get back. I have already writting most of the class text for next week and now have to put together the demos.

[Judi1957]

Jolanta-thank you for the very nice compliment and I appeciate you holding my hand as long as you did. (hey-I know great advice when I see it) You are really a wonderful, caring helpful person and I -as I am sure, all here appreciate it so-o-o much. :) :) I know you have been a God Sent to JayD and all of us.

Mary-look forward to seeing YOU-this portrait class is great isn't it

JayD :wave: :wave: :wave: -you are out tomorrow-but we will see you Saturday-huh??!! :D Travel safe. Well-you didn't give the next Class the evil sign-Whew-hey - you gonna tell it what it is-or do we have to be held in suspence?

Hi Anita :wave: -and ty.

[llanpe]

:evil: :evil: Oh ...Jolanta, Jolanta :mad: I was expecting you said... "Peter, this is finish, frame it..." :envy: :crying:
Now seriously, you can't believe how much I appreciate all your comments, what can we all do, without your support...? I am sure all my friends here they are doing the same I did... give you a good deserve medal. Please all of you dont forget to use this facility in W.C. :angel:
Now I will be bussy the weekend
Thanks again
Peter

[llanpe]

We are all very busy with the sp.(it looks the never ending work) and Jay ready with the next lesson .... :evil: When we sleep....? :crying: :crying: :D What will be next.... :confused:
Peter

[Reinhard1]

Connie, I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo proud of you :clap: :clap: :clap:

You really did a great job at applying the changes.
I'm glad you kept on working. I told you, it's not that much once you get to it. The likeness is getting even better and with these small adaptations we will bring it out even more.

Here come a few additional minor things.
Our left (your right) eye.Inside corner on the side of the nose. Draw that corner of the eye and then ADD the shadow towards the nose. This will bring on 2 things. One, it will bring your eye into the correct proportions and two. reduce the width of the bridge of the nose. Right now it's a bit wide. Additionally, check if the iris/pupil are a compete circle. It appears on my printout that it's missing a bit on the hight left corner. You might as well check the tonal value differences between the (our) left white of the eye with the right side. In the reference there is a stroner tonal difference indicating more shadow on the inside.
The left (your right) nostril. Make it a bit rounder and softer. It's a tad too pointed.
Upper lip and teeth. Widen the upper lip a slight bit towards the teeth and try to take out the lines between the individual teeth (or at least soften them with a kneaded eraser making them less "picket fece).
Our left (your right) corner of the chin. You adapted it already but I would like you to bring the curve even more up than you already did. No too much but a tad more.
And finally, if you have an electric eraser this would be perfect to bring some highlights into the eyes. If you don't have that eraser, make yourself a template ( plastic with a small hole in it), place it over the pupils (same position on both pupils) and dab out some highlights. You'll be surprised how much that does to liven the eyes. You have a sparkling personality and that should be visible in your portrait as well.
I'm looking forward to seeing the next step. :wave: :wave:

[mothsailor]

Morning all! Stressful morning in our house today...DW is off to a job interview in London. Hours spent on face packs, doing nails, getting hair done, choosing outfit... Oh yes, and a couple of minutes spent thinking about what to say!! (Just joking!) Just had a call from the train asking me to look something up for her! Anyway, I've got total confidence in her. Just hope the interviewers are smart enough to choose the right person!

Sults, It's good to hear that you're keeping so positive. With that attitude, I'm sure things are going to turn out well.

CJ, glad to see you're almost back to normal! So you don't have any shirts left? Too bad, I was just thinking I'd look good in one! :) Nice hat, too!! As well as the points Reinhard made, I think the eyes are a bit too high up the head, and there is more of a downward slant to the left eye (our right) in the photo than in your drawing. Also, there is quite a pronounced curve at the bridge of the nose that connects to the eyebrow that you haven't quite got in your drawing. Although the hat doesn't matter to the likeness, it would look a bit more realistic if the main part of the hat (what's that called?) started a bit lower down and was more horizontal at the top. At the bottom, notice that it curves away, and that you see much less of it than in your drawing. The bottom of the brim also comes down futher in the photograph.

Judi, have I said how much I'm enjoying watching the progress of your pastel? If so, I'm saying it again!

Peter, greatly admire your work, clothes as well as face!

Mary, I think pastel pencils are harder to erase than graphite, but our new Pastel Queen would know better than I.

[llanpe]

Thanks Dave, :evil: I am fighting with myself now, well .... with my portrait, I want to put this drawing in the rubishbin and start again. :mad:
How are you going?
Peter

[Reinhard1]

Peter for crying out loud why would you even want to condider this? I think you are honestly doing very fine. I have not read all of Jolanta's comments so I might repeat it. What gets me a little is that they eyes apear to be a bit too wide open and to my impression here on my screen it is due to the lower eyelid being a bit too rounded. Except that, peachy work. Continue and post. I am looking forward to it.
Greetings from rainy and fresh Frankfurt :wave: :wave: :wave: (great drawing weather though :D )

[mothsailor]

Peter for crying out loud why would you even want to condider this? I think you are honestly doing very fine.

I agree! People are always their own harshest critics, aren't they?

[llanpe]

Here we are again. No Reinhard I dont cry (at the moment... wait for Jolanta :D ) I envy your good eye to see mistakes.
Well , one more try with new eyes, new shoulder, new hairline, .... I dont want to do any more shading before the Queen has a look at this :D
Peter

[Reinhard1]

Peter, much better :clap: , but, before the queen arrives, I think that the left (your right) eye is still a bit too wide open. I think that the slope of the upper eyelid comes up "slower" and the the highest point of this arch is bout above the part where the right (our right) corner of the iris meets the eyelid. You have this point too far on the left. On the right (your left) eye, the highest point of that arch sits about above the right intersection point as well. Talking about "sharp eyes", they mainly work on other peoples' drawings and less on mine.

[llanpe]

Oh Reinhard........., be sure your "sharp eyes", worked again, I did that and what a difference.
Thank you, time now for sleep, good night. (sorry good morning, 3 am)
Peter

[Fireman's kid]

Hi everyone!

I wanted to pop in so you didn't think I fell of the face of the earth. :rolleyes: I've tried to look at everyone's SPs. They are all coming along so great! I haven't had time to read much of the comments, but I am :envy: because you are all getting such good advice from Jolanta and Reinhard.

I had the best of intentions to start my sp this week, but the last week and a half or so has been crazy around here. Lots of doctors visits, - luckily nothing serious, but 3 of the 4 of us (including me!) have had a stomach virus this week - normal things taking 3 to 4 times longer to accomplish than necessary (3 trips to the garage to get the car inspected :eek: ), and I'm getting ready for another show on May 14th.

Every night I've wanted to have my hubby take a reference picture for my sp and I haven't even gotten that done because I think I look to tired or frustrated or sick. :o I don't want to scare you all. :evil: I want to be happy in my sp, but I guess I have to be happy in RL first. lol!

Maybe I'll get a chance to start this weekend. Keeping fingers crossed here!

CJ - glad to hear you are feeling better. I hope the rest of your recovery happens quickly!
Sults - I think about you every day and hope you are hanging in there! I'll keep you in my prayers. :)
Dave - I hope your wife's interview went well!

Well, gotta run! I hope to be back to post the start of my sp this weekend.

[jmfletch]

Well, this was suppose to be the preliminary line drawing but I got carried away and started rendering.

I tried something new when I started to render. Several folks here have talked about starting with harder pencils and working to softer pencils. I often use harder pencils for the initial drawing but rarely if ever render with them. Now I know why. I don't like the result. It is very linear and the graphite does not blend anything like the softer pencils.

What is here is 4H, 3H & 2H on illustration board. The image is about 10"x12". From here on it will be 2B - 9B. :D

I am debating with myself on the background, I do not intend to include anyting that is there. Currently thinking about graphite powder rubbed in or using a Wolff's carbon pencil and trying to make it very dark.

Joe

[Reinhard1]

Joe looking mighty good so far. That'll be interesting to watch how it evolves.

[Jolanta]

Hi Peter,I found my way here after a lot of running around - sorry couldn't make it sooner.
Eyes are looking much better. You got a good advice from Reinhard. Now you can shade them pretty dark just like in the photo. Your left cheek needs some more "smile" buldge it some more. Your forehead is still too high to my eye. Now look at the ear. Shade it like in photo. You have a straight line from light cheek to dark shade that's not what I see in the photo. Work on one thing at the time and look really close at the values. Don't start over until you make a hole in the paper :D You can fix it. Shoulder looks much better too. Put the photo next to your drawing and compare all the values and shapes until you will see they look exactly the same. You can print your photo in the grayscale. I don't know if this is what you use - looks like it - it should be easier. Sorry I push you so hard but if we want to learn we have to do the best we can and I know you can do it. :wink2:
Jolanta
Have fun :evil:

[llanpe]

Thank you Jolanta for all your kind advise I am sure with your help this will be a nice drawing. I have the monitor next to the drawing and work with the reference in colour. I am using this horrible photo because of the light and the posibilities of learning with this, it is a really interesting experience to do all that shading.
Thanks again, and thanks to Reinhard too. :wave:
Peter

[JayD]

Judi--no evil sign but this is one of my favorite subjects--so just a "heh...heh...heh...." If you can do self portraits, this next class will be a breeze. Or so Mr. McGuffin says....heh....heh...heh.....

Oh, back from my trip--will be drawing and setting up furiously---sorry no previews except for what is above...posting Sunday...Jo and Rhein--thanks again for pitching in so enthusastically. I hope you will be posting in the masters portion of this class when the time comes... I want to see your stuff. :)

[SILKNSATIN]

Connie,Judi,peter,present,sultry and mary,wow fantastic job all.
Mary I so love your funky hair gf. ;)
I didn't even know you was gone JayD lol
I just can't keep you with you all. :)

[Judi1957]

:eek: :eek: :eek: the heh-heh-heh's are scary JayD :D

[Jolanta]

Judi - you don't have to say too much to make me laugh so hard :D :clap:
Jolanta

[Jolanta]

Jay - we are just trying to feel in for you - will send you a bill later :evil:
Jolanta

[Judi1957]

Hi Jolanta :wave: I don't mean to be a goof-it just comes out that way :D
So they are calling you the Queen too huh? Well suited. Hey-I posted my sp in soft pastels and they liked it-even with the bright bg-which I debated myself-but decided it kind of softened and brightened my face - if that makes sense to you. My Mom liked it too, which is even more important to me. :)

Hi Bon and Dave-Thanks so much.

Peter-I love your face-you look like such a soft kind man- I really like this! :)

Hi Stacy :wave:

[Mary Woodul]

Hi Everyone :wave:

Sults, I love your new avatar. :clap:

Judi I do love this portrait class but it is not as easy as I thought it would be.

Peter, your portrait is looking so realistic.

Bon, thank you! :D

Joe your photo is fantastic and your portrait is coming along fine. I feel the same about the graphites but I couldn't work my drawing with the pastel so I opted for graphite powder. As Dave says you can't erase the pastel and then I was using a textured paper that made it worse, so I started it all over today, different paper and pencil.

Dave I am sure yout wife is a very capable woman so she will get the job.

Hi JayD, Jolanta, Stacy, Connie, Reinhard, CJ and Anita. I hope I'm not forgetting anyone.

Here is my third try and I hope the last, except for corrections. It is graphite powder on sketch pad paper. The color of the photo looks tinted becuase I just took it and there was not enough light. I don't know what to do with the background. I will have to post the final on Sunday evening, I'll be away tomorrow, but I would like to know how I'm doing. :D :wave:

[Anita Murphy]

Hola Mary - I love the way your sp is looking - you look like you are having wicked thoughts about someone/something and are about to laugh! Nice to see the humour in your face!

[Mary Woodul]

Hola Anita, thank you, I think it is probably the expression from feeling silly taking my own picture. It was a little like talking to yourself, out loud. :D :wave:

[Reinhard1]

Mary con tu permiso. Great start! There is a very good inititial likeness which I think we can even improve with these minor changes. They are small, believe me. So here we go.
What gets me a little bit is that there appears to be a size difference between the eyes. On my screen the left (your right) eye shows as wider open and a touch too wide iin comparison to the right (your left) eye. Additionally, I don't know whether this is the scan/photo, I have the feeling that the iris on the left (your right) eye is a bit "unround" at the left side where the iris meets the upper eyelid. This could be a shadow however which is difficult to see on the screen.
You might want to check the distance from the left (your right) eye to the side of the head. The face shows on my screen as too wide. Your face on the reference is narrower/more delcate than in the drawing. When I measured on the sreen there was a marked difference. Checking the right (your left) side, the distance from the outer corner of the eye to the ear is the distance form the outer corner of the left (your right) eye to the outside of the hair.
Bridge of the nose. I think on both sides you can bring the shading indicating the widht of the nose a bit closer together leaving the inner corner of both eyes where they are. This will give them the necessary distance from inner corner of the eye to the nose which right now appears a bit too close.
Upper lip. On both sides in the reference photo the curve goes slightly inward while in the drawing you have them going outward. I think you can bring the corners of the lips a bit more in and fill the then upcoming "empty area" with the fine "smile line" you have.
I think the lower lip, especially in the middle is a bit too wide. If you look closely on the photo you can see that the lip is a bit smaler than the applied lipstick. Try to work that area with a little bit of a highlight. If you look at the photo, the lowest part of the lower lip is a bit higlighted while you have it in the drawing as a dark shadow. When you bring down the left (your right) part of the lower lip from the corner of the mouth, you have a slight inward curve while the photo shows a slight outward curve as you have it on tho right (your left) side of the lower lip.
I am not completely sure but could you please check if the lowest part of the lower lip should not be moved slightly to our left?
Left (your right) cheekline. In the reference it is straighter down with a "point" at the end of the jaw. In the drwing it is a bit too rounded.
Chin, you have such a lovely modeled chin on the photo which I see less in the drawing and take a look on the sides of the chin. There is a small line on both sides which I don't really see in the drawing.
My goodness this sounds like complete "ripping apart" of the drawing which it really is not. These are all minor adaptations to bring the portrait even better out.

[Reinhard1]

Mary, disculpa. It has to be "con su permiso". Have been in Chile too long and forgot that this is not the way it is handled in Mexico. Couldn't get it corrected in the original post though.

[Judi1957]

Hola Anita, thank you, I think it is probably the expression from feeling silly taking my own picture. It was a little like talking to yourself, out loud. :D :wave:
Hey Mary-its OK as long as you don't answer yourself.

I like your sp a lot. :clap: I read thu Reinhard's critique and think he got it all. But I agree w/ Reinhard-it looks like a lot (lengthy description) but is really not. Quick fixes.

Hi Reinhard :wave: We are going to have to dub you the 'King of Critique' pretty soon. :D

[llanpe]

I second Judi, Reinhard "THE KING" :clap: :clap: :clap:
Mary buen principio la pose es excelente.
Peter

[Reinhard1]

Judi&Peter, that is the " king of lengthy explanations " . But honestly I'm far below to what Jolanta, the real queen, sees and is able to convey. I just try to give back a little of what I have received those last 15 months in my endeavour to be able to present recognizable protraits.

[Judi1957]

Judi--no evil sign but this is one of my favorite subjects--so just a "heh...heh...heh...." If you can do self portraits, this next class will be a breeze. Or so Mr. McGuffin says....heh....heh...heh.....


JayD----Are we all going to draw Bailey? :D :D

[rosebard]

Wow 19 pages already??? You guys beeing busy here. Will sink myself onto those long pages to see what you guys have being up to. And surely at this point going to find wonderful works of art here.

Just received a sweet pm from Judi, thanks Judi. She got me curious to come and look and plus to say HI!!!

Take care everyone and keep up the good work!! :D :wave:

[JayD]

Although it is a good idea--NOPE! :D

[Judi1957]

Hi Rose! :wave: Glad you stopped in!

HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY LADIES!

[Cathie Jones]

HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY

to all who are celebrating it today!!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-May-2005/23460-smiley_mothers_day.gif

[sultry]

Hi everyone :wave:
Hi Rose we miss you :)
Hi Jay, you have me curious about the next class.
Mary your portrait is looking better everytime I see it. You have very captivativing pretty eyes. I think Reinhard has you covered in actually rendering more of beauty into your sp.
Judi you did such a beautiful job in rendering your sp and your sp shows how beautiful a person you are outside as well as from within.

& to all Mommys...
HAVE A SPLENDID MOTHERS DAY :clap: :clap: :clap:

[JayD]

Happy Mother's Day to all you MOTHER"S out there!

[llanpe]

Sultry, everyone want to know what will be next, but I think we have to wait before we know, I am not in a hurry for next lesson, have to finish the sp.
Peter

[Mary Woodul]

Gracias todos! :D Reinhard, thank you so much, you have a magical eye to find what is wrong. I see the portrait and see that there are very small things different but it completely changes your face. You are marvelous at observing and I thank you for taking your time to write the observations. I am going to copy them so I can work on them with what I now know, is wrong. :D BTW I prefer ( hablar de tu) I always feel the su, so formal, but necessary sometimes. Not in my case, we're friends.

Happy Mother's Day all the mothers.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-May-2005/43096-vaseCLR1.gif

[cmwynn]

I am posting one more time to show the corrections I tried to do. I appreciate all the help I have received, but I am not satisfied with it, and both of my daughters think it is all wrong. My plan is to stop here, trying at some time not too distant to do it over again from scratch. I do improve some so maybe it will work better with more practice and by not looking at it for a while.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-May-2005/29839-CMWportrait3xm.jpg

[Jolanta]

Connie - I don't remember if you are working on your sp from the mirror but if you do maybe working from the photo would make it easier to see all the values and little details. This portrait is kind of rough now and I can understand why your babies don't approve it. Find a photo of yourself you like and give it a try. I believe it will be easier. Sometimes we need to try different things to get where we want to be. Please don't give up. I know you can do it.
Jolanta

[JayD]

Let me add one more comment to Jolanta's--your family and friends are going to be your biggest critics and they dont mean to be. I think you have a very good likeness going. Criticisms go into your artistic suggestion box--contructive use them--destructive--toss them.

regarding the mirror--you should use the mirror to show your drawing to yourself. The mirror locates critical errors for you and allows you to fix the problem.

Walking away is a good idea but make sure that you come back to it--it is a good way to reassess your objectivity and you will be please with yourself at how much you have actually learned.

I agree with Jo about working from a photo--I shoot most of my pictures myself (obviously, I did not shoot the one of the Vermeer) and then I print them out on glossy or satin finish paper and I keep them on my table to use for references--I usually print out a color version and a black and white version but you dont have to go this far.

Keep at it, Connie--You're doing great!! :)

[dragonfruit]

HELP! Copies of all the posts for the past three days seem to be ending up in my private email address. I'm drowning!
:confused:
Ren

[dragonfruit]

Oops! Sorry! I didn't understand. It was the Mother's Day message, right? - send to everyone?
(Here we have Mothering Sunday in March).
Thanks for the message, all, and hope you had nice days.
:)
Ren

[Reinhard1]

Connie, I have to disagree with your babies, sorry, tell them that. I think you did a wonderful job so far. I recall, not too long ago when you posted a sp with glasses/sunglasses, and now? What a difference!!!! I really like what you did and that deserves a clappie :clap: , or 2 :clap: :clap: I love the highlights in your eyes. Really brings them out shining.
Could you do me a personal favour and post both, the photo and this stage of the protrait, please? It is difficult to jump back and forth. I am proud of what you achieved. :wave: :wave: :wave:

[Jolanta]

Hi,
Reinhard is right!!! Comparing your first try on sp and this one you improved a lot :clap: If you like to save this one I just have one suggestion. From what I see the biggest problem is with the darks in the face - they are too dark! Maybe if you will lift them with eraser to lighten or blend them and lift some at the same time - your face would look much more natural. Posting ref.photo and drawing helps a lot to see what we are talking about :D
Reinhard - you did a great job helping - thanks
Jolanta

[cmwynn]

Jo - I realize this looks a little rough, but it is from a photo, and about as good as I can do at this time. Of course, I look a little rough now, the mirrror sketch was done the day after eye surgery and the photo take a day or two later than that.
Reinhard, I am doing as you asked, even though I am thoroughly sick of ME for now. But I will value any additional comments you make. Thank you again.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-May-2005/29839-CMWportrait3xm.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-May-2005/29839-CMWxm.jpg

[Jolanta]

Hi,
I see it now! I think all you have to do is take your pinky - make sure is dry and clean and go over the face blending gently. Don't touch the eyes - they are good! Add some more hair on the top of your hair and make your hair all over darker. Don't forget to blend the neck with the finger. Blending will smooth out all the hard edges in shading you have right now. I am all excited! :) I think it will work. Show us - please.
Jolanta

[Mary Woodul]

Hi All!, :wave: Connie, I really think you have done a very good job and Jolanta's suggestion will leave it perfect.

I tried to correct mine but now I think I have the shape of my top eye lids wrong. Specially my right eye. My top lids seem to go straight across and then come down and I seem to have given them an almond shape, I didn't see it until I saw it on the screen. I don't know what to do with the background. :confused:

C&C's are always appreciated. :wave:

[Jolanta]

Hi Mary,
Sorry couldn't get to your sp sooner. I am working in my garden and go on the computer only when I cannot move anymore to rest :D
You just about gave yourself a good critique. Your eyes are gorgeous and have a dreamy look and you have to show it. You are correct about upper lids - they go over irises in more straight line - this is what gives them this great dreamy look. Pay attention how much of the irises are covered. Your left eye looks a bit smaller - try to lower outside edge of the lower lid a little bit. Add some hair on the top of your head - very common error! :) To me it looks like your nose is a bit too long. You have a nice mouth corners extending outside your lipstick - show it. I would take all the time necessary to make eyes perfect. Maybe a bit darker??? You have a likeness and after some adjustments it should be a great sp. :clap:
Jolanta

[Reinhard1]

Connie thanks for bidding my plea. As I thought, you really earned my clappies, and here they come again :clap: :clap: . I fully agree with what Jolanta said and I would like to add just one more tiny little thing. Take a ruler and make a line from the corner of your mouth to the eyes. I think you drew your mouth a tad too small. Now, leave everything is is, only draw a cute dark little shadow on both sides of the mouth towards the point where the corners sould be. This will IMHO do 2 things, your mouth will become as wide in the drawing as it is in the refrerence, and you will win 2 areas of dark which will bring your smile about more.
Why would you be SICK of you? There is absolutely no need. Quite to the contrary you can and should be proud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Reinhard1]

Mary I fully agree with Jolanta. Absolutely nothing to add. This will be great!

[Reinhard1]

Hi guys, let's all give Jolanta, the queen of C&C, a big round of applause for having reached the deserved status of "WC minion".
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Reinhard1]

I'm still missing the continuation of 2 portraits.
Cathy Jones and Peter (llanpe) where are you ? :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :confused: We're waiting :music: :music: :music:

[Jolanta]

Reinhard - you are so kind you almost made me cry - you got to be careful - I am very sensitive old lady - silly me :wink2: I am honored!!! I just need to find the right size of crown - all of them are getting too small :D
Mary - you have a great cheek bones but since you didn't do a lot of shading in the face - you cannot show it. How about if you would make the whole face light grey color with hard pencil side and leave the highlights where you see them in the photo? As far as the background you could make one side of the drawing darker but don't split it in half.

Peter - I am looking all over the place for you!
Jolanta

[Mary Woodul]

Jolanta and Reinhard, You are both extraordinary people and artists and I think I am not the only one that appreciates the time you take to observe and comment on the exact detail that makes the portrait. Thank you both for your help and I will continue with the pointers and post maybe by tomorrow, I hope. :D :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Cathie Jones]

Ah, Reinhard . . . I was hoping you had forgotten. :D

Actually, I just got back to work last Friday, and all weekend was carried away by the need for color . . . so I watercolored instead of penciling.

I'm anxious to try a baby face in #19, but will definitely be back to this sp - there just aren't enough available hours for art!!!

[Reinhard1]

CJ how can a man ever forget you?????? :D :D :D :evil: So glad to hear that you're (nearly) back to the old speed. :)
I'll sit back to watercolours and await patiently the next update I am sure will be great. :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[Cathie Jones]

:D Thank you for the most excellent temporary reprive, your Kingship!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-May-2005/23460-smiley_not_worthy.gif

[mothsailor]

Finally, the update on my sp that I know you've all been waiting for with bated breath! :rolleyes: I've also attached the reference photo (that's the one on the right, in case you were having trouble telling them apart! :D)

CJ how can a man ever forget you??????
Reinhard, you silver-tongued devil! I bet you're a bit hit with the ladies! :evil: :p

[Cathie Jones]

:clap: Go Dave!!! (I didn't know we could use a grid - maybe I'll try it!)

[Reinhard1]

Cathie I just received Matti Kataja's book "Advanced Drawing Techniques - complete guide for photorealistic pencil drawing" and I suggest you take a look at his website to see what an achieved artist he is: http://www.mattikataja.com
He writes about grids on page 20 of his book (limited edition of 200 copies including works amongst others of Linda Huber (Imaginee) and Armin Meersmann (Eclipse), I quote:

"... using grid for outlines is very common among pencils artists who want to get facial proportions correct. ...... some artists may find using a grid too stiff an approach. However, the time that can be saved by using a grid can be used later with tones and details..... the choice has to be made whether you want to get the exact similarity with the used reference or accept random 'artistic flaws' in the proportions instead.." end quote

I know that there are different opinions about using the grid from acceptance to complete rejection. I do not want to get into this discussion again. I just wanted to show you that there are various accepted ways to achieve your goal. YOU DECIDE what you want to do.

What would I suggest? Try to do it freehand if possible just to sharpen your observational skills. If you are not satisfied, try the grid and see if you like this better. In the end it's your drawing. I was using the grid for the better part of my artistic journey. Now I have switched to freehand after the grid gave me security that "I can".

[Judi1957]

Hi CJ :wave: I agree w/ Reinhard to use freehand/observation as much as possible-but JayD did say we can use tools we would like to as long as we do not trace.
The 'not the usual' grid method I used for my sp worked very well too. This method ties down points much more exactly. Funny, I got my June issue of the Artist's Magazine yesterday and it is actually had an article on 'my' method there-(and I thought I invented it :( )

[Cathie Jones]

I did do the sp freehand, but it's getting out of control now. Everything I try to fix makes it worse. Could be that I'm working on it when I'm very tired, late at night, but that can't be helped. I've used grids before in sketching out watercolors and it is much faster and seems to work pretty well for me. So, I think I'll put a grid on the photo, and on the already-started sp and see where I've gone off course.

I do need to finish this so I can get on with the next lesson. Since I'll be short of time in #19 also, I plan to use a grid for the child outline.

Did I ever tell you that I have no desire to draw people?? This is also a lesson in patience and follow-through for me. :D

[JayD]

For the purposes of this class--you may use whatever tools you deem comfortable. There is nothing wrong with using either--No need for comparison contrast in this thread. Do what makes you comfortable.

My reccommendation is to do your work ups in freehand if you are up to it--when you transfer to good paper you can use whatever tool works for you. If you work directly from photos, nothing wrong with using tools. Just produce produce produce and you will improve. :)

[JayD]

Hey, Rein-Guy--I am trusting you here--I just purchased the book. Actually, I have been looking for books on photorealism and I love his work so this may be just the ticket.

[Cathie Jones]

A while back I saw a thread of Matti's and his book was discussed there, so I got on the 'waiting list' to be advised when it was ready. When I got the e-mail, I had just spent almost $100 on watercolor DVDs (that I received today and absolutely love!), so I haven't ordered Matti's book yet . . . but his work sure is fantastic!!!

JayD (and Rein) I wasn't worried about using a grid or other tools (except that you told us not to trace this time) - just forgot that it was an option.

In spite of everything we've done here, I haven't practiced enough and still can't freehand easily . . . just can't seem to get my hands to cooperate with my eyes. It'll get there, but not until I have time to practice.

[llanpe]

Cathie, dont worry being out of control with your sp. I have the same problem, after working so hard, now it looks worst that it was. :( :mad:
I will leave for a while and start with the children. Then fresh I will give another try.
But I will tell you something, never again I will trust Jay, he said lesson 19 will be a breeze after the sp. :evil: :evil:, now I am scare to ask him what will be next .... (Jay please, dont take this seriously :D )
Peter

[Reinhard1]

JayD, I don't think you will be disappointed with this book. I find it written in a style like talking directly and understandibly to me. The topics are structered very clearly and are, IMHO, 'easy' to follow. There are 'millions' of hints and explanations why he does what. I have however only had very little time to really go through in depth but what I found so far have made the purchase for me worhtwhile. I'm hooked.

[JayD]

Rein, thanks for the input--I am probably going to review it once I receive it. One that I am already impressed with is how fast he responded to my inquiry--a good product is nothing without good customer service and he seems to be very saavy about that point.

CJ--well this is for everyone--the two weeks is mainly a deadline for me to get the classes written. No rush on your projects and switch them around if you want--if you are frustrated with the sp's the just put them aside for now and move on to the next project. I typically have about 5 or 6 project cookin' at one time. It keeps my perspective fresh.

[llanpe]

Thanks Jay, I will do that. Looks that finally I can have the eyes right, now only the hair I will post it again. Hope this week I can show the sp. and a portrait of my grandson.
Peter

[Mary Woodul]

Rein, thanks for the input--I am probably going to review it once I receive it. One that I am already impressed with is how fast he responded to my inquiry--a good product is nothing without good customer service and he seems to be very saavy about that point.

CJ--well this is for everyone--the two weeks is mainly a deadline for me to get the classes written. No rush on your projects and switch them around if you want--if you are frustrated with the sp's the just put them aside for now and move on to the next project. I typically have about 5 or 6 project cookin' at one time. It keeps my perspective fresh.

Thank you JayD, I might do the same as Peter. I'll start the outline of the children and come back to the sp. :wave:

[Mary Woodul]

Well I decided to finish it, but now I see other mistakes and I am afraid I did cut mysel in half with the background. Should I lighten the part next to the edge of the paper?

[Cathie Jones]

Oh sure, Mary! You and Peter just abandon me here with the mad German on my heels!! :evil: :angel:

Just kidding, Rein - you know I need the 'push.'

Mary, your sp is looking terrific! Won't take much to finish it now. :clap:

[Mary Woodul]

Awe, no, CJ, I though I had finished it. :eek: But I know I haven't, that background is awful so I will still be here keeping you company. Has Peter finished his??????? :confused:

[Jolanta]

Hi Mary,
I love the eyes. The background is looking good too. I would make the dress as dark as possible. Now - somehow your forehead now is too high. Just lower the hairline on your left side and put more darks in the hair just as you see in the photo. If you could make your left cheek fuller it would look even better. That's about all. Once again - great job on eyes they have this LOOK :clap:
You are very talented and beautiful :clap:
Jolanta

[Jolanta]

Mary - I just did corrections from above on the copy of your drawing and it looks great. You will have to go pretty dark with darks in the hair especially on the sides of the head - see it?
Jolanta

[Mary Woodul]

Thank you, Jolanta, you really have a special gift of not only being a great artist but finding the flaws so quickly. Hope to see you with the children, and thank you again for the help. :D

[Mary Woodul]

OK Jolanta, I'll go right to it while I still have it in the oven. Thanks again. :D

[Mary Woodul]

OK, I hope I did the corrections are right. This time I scanned it because at night it changes the color of the drawing. C&C's welcome and appreciated.

[Judi1957]

Hi Mary-you are just beautiful! :clap: :clap:
You know you can do a greyscale of the digital pictures-it may help if you wanted to post a night pic.
I don't remember all the C & C and I gotta go to bed as I have a 16 hour workday in front of me tomorrow- so I just want to comment-besides the beautiful-
I think the sides of the nostils could be a bit more rounded, the lower foremost part of your nose needs to be a tad rounder and add a tad more dark on the underside of your upper lip.
Maybe lift some dark to give the pearls a bit more glimmer.
If there is anything else -I am sure Jolanta, JayD or Reinhard will be along.

Good-night.
z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z

[Deb Leger]

<sigh>

I still don't have my sp done. It's not even started. It's like trying to pull hen's teeth, even getting starting. Like CJ, I just have no desire to draw people. Mainly because I mess them up so badly. Drawing them is like taking one step forward, then the results are like fifty steps backwards. :( Depressing as ........ well, whatever - it's very depressing anyways. :wink2:

But......... I'll persevere. And try to get one started. :rolleyes:

And then such joy! Onto "more" people drawings. (Is there a smiley laughing hysterically - completely out of control and somewhat panicky???)

Okay JayD, I'm working right now on formatting lesson 19, then will spend some time drawing. And if all else fails, I'll just go back to drawing a building I'm going to paint. :evil: I like doing those. :evil: Perspective is a breeze compared to noses and eyes and mouths. :(

OKay, enough feeling sorry for myself. I'm kicking into gear.............


(I hope.)

Deb

[Anita Murphy]

Deb - you have my sympathy. Suffering from lack of motivation myself. But today made myself put pencil to paper and felt better for doing it. Having the same problem with painted portrait - several backward steps for every one forward. Art - what a nightmare!!!! Total self-torture!

[Reinhard1]

Mary, mis complimentos :clap: :clap: Great drawing. You can be proud of it. Where will you put it (on which wall I mean)? :evil:

[Mary Woodul]

Thank you Reinhard. :D I'll frame it and give it to my husband so he can put it on his desk at work and will have to look at me during his work hours also. :evil: :evil: :evil: :D

[Reinhard1]

Mary, this is a brilliant idea because I know your husband is proud of you having done this fantastic sp. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: I hope you are proud as well because you really did a fine portrait of a great lady.
Felicitaciones!

[llanpe]

Here we are, finally the sp., is this finished ? I am not very happy but ...., every time I try to fix anything it goes worst :evil:
Royalty what do you think? :wink2:
Regards, Peter

[llanpe]

Deb, you are madly right, one step forward, fifty backwards .... . I changed, trees, mountains, bottles, apples ......for eyes, mouths, hair. Resaults? now, I think I am at the same level in portraiture, I was 12 month ago. :crying: :crying: :crying: But I dont want my time being wasted, what can I do now ? :mad: I know :evil: draw more eyes, more mouths, more hair ..... :D and wait, maybe one day .... :music:
Regards all, Peter

[Reinhard1]

Peter really good but not quite finished, yet. But oyu have a very good likeness.
4 tiny little things from me.
Left eye (your right) please take a close look where the arch of the upper eyelid is the highest. In the reference it it over the point where the iris meets the lid on the side of the nose. In the drawing it appears to be on the outer side. You might be misled by the fine line above the lid. And note the distance between this fine line and the upper lid there.
Right eye (your left) can you "close the eye" a bit by bringing the arch of the eyelid a touch down. In the reference the arch is not as "spiked" as in the drawing.
Next to last, give yourself a little bit more left (your right) ear. In the reference the ear extends back beyon the head. In the drawing, the ear appears to be in the line that comes down from the back of the head,
and finally lower lip. Make it a bit straighter in the middle. In your drawing this seems a bit too round.

All my suggestions are definitively only preliminary and pending until final approval by her royal highness.

[Anita Murphy]

Peter - what are you talking about. I think this is great. Give your self a big clap on the back from me!

[llanpe]

Anita you are very kind, I dont know if I deserve a "big clap" but I am sure I deserve a "good rest from this".
Reinhard, :clap: :clap: :clap: "GOD SAVE THE KING" :D thanks for all your indications ... tiny little things...? :wink2: I will take a good note of these and fix them after the drawing of the child I started.
Peter

[Reinhard1]

Peter, that's "shave" the king in my case. :D

[Cathie Jones]

We once stayed in a condo in Kihei, Maui, called 'Hale Pau Hana,' which we were told meant 'work is done' (it was started as a retirement community). And now . . . for the May issue of the American Rag, my work is done.

I've satisfied the need for color by spashing some paint around for a couple of hours and then got down to finishing the sp outline. The dots on the page were used to like up the grid, which was behind the page.

Now I'll go start on shading, which I think I'll start with graphite powder and swabs. Wish me luck . . .

[Judi1957]

Hi CJ :wave:
Wow this looks great so far!-----You don't need luck CJ-you are doing wonderful! :clap: :clap:
Hope you don't mind but I brought your ref up cause it was way back there in Class.

[Cathie Jones]

Thanks, Judi. I should have brought the ref back - just didn't think of it. And don't know why I didn't think of using a grid before - it's so much easier! :D

[Mary Woodul]

Wow Peter, I think you sp is fantastic. You have a very fine touch to your drawings.

CJ, I think you have captured the expression in the sp, your doing very well IMHO.

:clap: :clap: :clap: To both of you :D :wave:

[Cathie Jones]

Thank you, Mary! I'll be pleased if this turns out as good as yours did!!

Here it is . . . smudges and all. Did the hat in charcoal to speed up the process and, naturally, got it all over everything.

[llanpe]

Mary I love your sp, this is really nice
Cathie :eek: wonderful you managed very well the charcoal, when I use it everything comes black, even the floor :D
Peter

[Reinhard1]

Cathie, you did just great :clap: :clap: :clap:
May I offer one little additional thing? Try to tone down the teeth a tad. At this moment they appear a little bit too prominent by being a touch too white.
Who said you just can't draw people", or something like that???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I AM PROUD OF YOU AND WILL NOT HAUNT AND HUNT YOY ANY LONGER :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :evil:

[bjcpaints]

OK Here are my pathetic submissions. The one with the glasses was done last July. The one without glasses was done yesterday looking at my driver's license while waiting for clothes to dry at the laundromat.

[Cathie Jones]

Reiinhard, you have no idea how I treasure your words! Thanks for the push - and a HUGE thanks to the person who mentioned using a grid. Now . . . on to the children's section . . .

[Judi1957]

CJ! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
I love your sp. :D
Peter-Your sp is fantastic as well. I love how you have the light reflecting on your face! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :D

Barb-This is not pathetic-but you need to develop it. Can you post your reference?

[Mary Woodul]

CJ, I just love your sp and you did great with the charcoal.

Barbara, I'm so happy to see you working on you sp, it is going to be just great. :D

Thank you Peter and CJ. :wave:

[jmfletch]

CJ - I like your SP. I lived in Hawaii for about 5 years and remember a few words. Hale means House. Pau means done or finished. So it soumds like you stayed at the "Work is Done House" :)

Barbara - I agree with Judi! Need to see the reference. The eyes seem a little intense, but witout the ref it is hard to say.

Here is my almost pau SP. I still haven't decided on the backgound, but am thinking of making it fade from lighter gray at top left down to very dark close to the face. This, I think, will explain the light source and will also make the face lighter in contrast. Also I am still debating using graphite or carbon.

Please C&C.

Joe

[Judi1957]

Hey Joe :music: ,

You guys all keep talking in all these different languages I'm going to get really lost! :D
This looks so wonderful! :clap: :clap:
A couple of things I think that are not quite correct is your nose, the end of your nose in the ref is more rounded and goes down a tad. The drawing shows your nose more pointed there and angles up. Your forehead on the left side of the drawing needs to be more rounded. I think your lips need to be thicker and your slight smile is missing :( . Your left eye-the shape of the lid on the bottom and inner upper lid need corrected.

[sultry]

Hey Guys :wave:
Most of you I have already commented on (Judi & Anita if I have not said it before, I will say it now, GREAT JOB).
I just took a stroll through the thread from where I last posted &...
Connie you have done a great job in updating your sp I like the alterations you have done.
Dave your gettiing the likeness and I hope you are still planning to add more values to this.
Mary you really have captured your eyes and I like how you took all the C&C and really applied it to your sp to make it come alive.
CJ same for you on the C&C I see you have really learned to render a photo like appearance with charcoal. You are really doing well with the values.
Peter you have done photo realism in your sp, I see such a improvement from your last sp.
Hey Joe, you are really capturing your likeness but I think you too need more values to make it come alive. You could also get to photo realism if you did apply more contrast to your sp.
I have started on a new sp since I could not get the other one to what I wanted. Carmelo did not like the picture anyways, so I will be posting the new one soon. Judi, ty for being so patient with me and viewing all the ones I tried to do (I know I went thru a lot).
Just wanted to say, that if you guys were to post a gallery of your sp next to your first pre drawings you would be so amazed. I just did that for kicks on a few of you was so floored on the improvements.
Jay, Jolanta, Reinhard & not forget sweet lil Judi, you all did a bang up job in C&C getting them to do such great likeness on their sp. You all deserve to toast to Jay's sparkling beer.

[sultry]

Ok I thought I better post this so other eyes can help me before I transfer this to the good paper. It is done so far on copy typing paper and HB 0.5 mech pencil.

[SILKNSATIN]

Sultry.This is very well done. :clap:
I can't wait to see you start on this one.Beautiful face to.Who is it? :D

[Reinhard1]

Joe there is really very little to correct in your portrait. Pretty good, I'd say :clap: :clap:
A few minor things. The drawing looks pretty "washed out" on my screen. It appears that the portrait is a bit too much in the middle tone range. I know that a lot of it is due to the scanner, however, may I suggest that you make the pupils really black and then compare and adapt the other tonal values in your drawing to that. You might want to re-consider the highlight in our right (your left) eye. It seems to be a bit too prominent. The left (your right) side of the forehead seems to be a bit rounder and a touch further back in the reference than in the drawing, and I have a feeling that the underside of the nose in the drawing is a bit too prominent. That might be the scan.

sults, pretty good start of a pretty lady :wave: and so glad to see you back posting.

May I offer some things I think to see?

The irises of both eyes, althought hey have to be elliptical from this angle, have a distinct edge in the middle left (your right). That disturbs. The upper eyelids are rounder in the reference. I think you got distracted by the sahow and drew, on both sides, an edge in that's not there. The forehead from the left (your right) eye should go up straighter and not come back that far as you have it in the drawing.

Take a look at the left (your right) corner of the nose. This is too pointed. In the reference it is smoother and more feminine.

And please take a look at the chin. I have the feeling that this is too pointed as well. I think it is rounder and less pronounced.

Upper lip. It seems that you gave yourself too thick an upper lip and the "tips of the arches under the nose" are a touch too sharp, especially on the left (your right) side.

Lower lip. You have the lower lip very curved. In the reference there is in the middle an area where the lip is nearly straight.

Left (your right) cheekline, at the level of the mouth, you drew an outward corner. That's not there in the reference. Just cut that corner and you're there.

All are minor changes you might to watch out for when transferring to the drawing paper. I am looking forward to see this sp evolve.

[Cathie Jones]

Yippeeee Sults! :clap: Nice photo, and good start on the sp . . . glad you're feeling well enough to work on it.

[Fireman's kid]

Hi Sults! This is looking good! I definitely see you in there. And I'm glad you are drawing despite all of the crap life is throwing your way. :)

I see two small things that look off. On your right eye (our left) the half of the upper eyelid toward the nose looks too peaked to me. I think in the reference it is flatter. Also the bottom part of your nose where it turns under toward the nostrils seems a tad too large. I'm not sure about this spot though because it is tough for me to see that area clearly in the reference.

I'm sure a representative from the expert critique team of Jolanta, Judy, Jay and Reinhard will be by to look at this with more skilled eyes. But with my unskilled eyes, that is all I see. :)

:wave:

edited to add: Wow! Three people snuck in while I was typing my reply! I must be a slow typer. :D And, as expected, I see that Reinhard had a much more thorough list of suggestions than I did. I'm going to study his critiques so I can learn how to see like that!

[jmfletch]

Judy - Our initial drawing is already a terrific likeness!! :clap: :clap:

Judi, Judy, and His Majesty - Thanks for the insights. I will start on them tonight. Forehead, nose and more tones!!

Stacey - I told Sults a while back that I have learned more from looking at her comments than anything. (To not offend ..that was before Judi and the royals joined in.) It is definitely a learning experince to look at someone else's work and then look at it again thru the eye of the teacher. (There is also no ego or ownership involved which really makes it easier to see. :evil: )

Now that Sults is aka Judy we only need one more Judy and I can do my Cary Grant imitation!! :D

Joe

[Cathie Jones]

Aw, go ahead with a double, Joe . . . you already have the handsome, sculpted look of a Cary Grant!!!

[Judi1957]

Hey Joe :music:

Cary Grant never said it! :D

I agree with you Sults teaches so much! :clap:
I know you were talking to Stacey but I wanted to say I am pretty leary C & Cing, but I do it to lessen the burden on JayD. Some people 'may' get offended and I do worry about that. :( I myself do not, thank goodness, And I think everyone in this Class is the same way, or if they did before, they no longer do.

Now that we have the Royals- Jolanta and Reinhard, I was gonna stop doing it, hmmmm, then JayD and Reinhard decide to encourge it. :eek: So, I will continue, and EVERYBODY PLEASE JOIN IN! It is a very helpful experience:D

[jmfletch]

Judi, Judy, Judy

That is my best Cary Grant!!!!

Don't blame me :angel: ...CJ encouraged me! ...and from her other comments I think she's had a nip or two. :evil:

Joe

[jmfletch]

Judi - Keep CCing! You do a great job! :clap: I may not comment much but, I get an email everytime you post on one of the back lessons and, I always go look to see what I can learn. :D (and re-enforce the basics.)

Knowing how long it takes to just keep up on these threads I don't know how y'all do it! BUT I SURE AM APPRECIATIVE!!!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: That goes for all the subbies!!!

Joe

[Judi1957]

Thanks Joe :)
Where I am learning is by reading JayD's, Sult's (I cannot call her Judy :eek: ) and the Royal's critiques, one by one and looking at the drawing, checking out each item, not just on the critiques of my work but all the critiques. This is so-o-o helpful in training our eyes.

Hey you really think CJ was drinking :wink2: :evil: cause she likened you to Cary-well I'm having a green tea, and I'll second her. :)

[sultry]

Hiyas Bon, CJ, Reinhard, Stacy, Joe & Judi :wave:
Ty all for the nice words and great helping C&C I am in the process of fixing my sp.
I just had to jump in and say to Judi, YOU BETTER NOT STOP C&Cg gf. (inserts hands on hip smiley) only time you can stop is only to take a break but we will expect you back. :cat:
Judi I agree I learn from others C&C too.
Hey Joe, lol I agree with CJ & Judi you do look like Cary G and umm I only drank Pepsi.

[Judi1957]

Oh yeah - the break -

Going to see the grandkids Fri, Sat & Sunday! :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Cathie Jones]

See Joe? We ladies know a good-looking hunk when we see one! :evil: :angel: And I can assure you that I haven't 'nipped' in 12 years. :wink2:

[JayD]

You guys have not gotten rid of me yet! :D I have been busy at work with some this and thats but I am back.

CJ--if the ref is out of focus which it seems to be to me--go back and re-examine your drawing and see if there is anyway that you can improve upon it--the drawing that you have looks wonderful but I really think that you can push it further. More value of course but focus on highlights--bring some sparkle into the eyes. Leave the mouth alone--you have a tremendous smile. If the ref really was this out of focus then I salute you for your dilligence. I was reading an article in the July issue of Drawing Board magazine and the color pencil an oil artist Kathleen Dunphy when talking about her work says that she used the reference photo to get down the proportions, keeps things simple, gets the drawing done and THEN before detailing she puts away the photo and just works from her head--thoroughly enjoying the process. I think you have it in you to do the very same thing.

Alright Jim--your turn! :evil: You should leave it as it is--If I did not know that you had drawn this I would swear that I was looking at an Andrew Wyeth pencil drawing--look up his stuff and you wil see what I mean.

THE ROYALS? I LOVE IT!

Sults, you are a very beautiful woman. You have such an interesting face and with every piece that I have seen that you have done of your self (including the photos) I find myself exploring your face--it is full of emotion yet promotes a softness--a motherly kindness reflects in your eyes. I am an admirer of your bravery and a fan of your art--what does this have to do with art--well plenty if it is reflecting in your drawings. I think that you should work this piece slowly, work it layer by layer by layer and enjoy it like you would a fine wine. I think you are off to a great start and I look forward to your progress. :) Be very careful about overworking your initial drawings--I see what staci says about the eye but it looks like that may work itself out ass the drawing develops.

[Cathie Jones]

Okay, JayD - drawing and photo side-by-side. As you can see, the photo is not as blurry as you saw it above . . . a little farther above the sp I posted the 'outline' that I did with a grid - after that I ditched the grid and used the photo for shading.

[JayD]

Cathie, those eyes are wiggin me out and I could not figure out why until I put the photo side by side with the references. Look a the eyes very close. In the ref, the eyes are looking upward--no problem there. In the drawing, again the EYES are looking upware but the pupils are facing FORWARD. What do you think?

[Cathie Jones]

Cathie, those eyes are wiggin me out and I could not figure out why until I put the photo side by side with the references. Look a the eyes very close. In the ref, the eyes are looking upward--no problem there. In the drawing, again the EYES are looking upware but the pupils are facing FORWARD. What do you think?

I think that's the same thing Reinhard said about my first attempt. Must not have been very attentive to that! I'll see if I can fix it, but because of the huge amount of charcoal on the drawing, I sprayed it before scanning, so I don't know if I can do anything to it now.

Thanks, JayD.

[sultry]

Hi everyone :wave:
CJ that is a wonderful job and I do agree with Jay and also another thing you should take note of. Look at the shadow just under the upper lid of the eye. It needs to be more pronounced in your sp. You will capture that shadow if you draw the geo shape of your white of the eye. Draw the geo shape of the iris and you will have the negative space left inbetween that is the shadow. That would be a middle tone value from the dark shadow line just under the eye.

Ok, I did all the corrections Royal Rein & Stacy Subbie said...(I hope).

Jay, you made me feel so good with all that you said and I do plan to take it slow with this one and all future ones too. I wanted to do Connie's tractor in Stoy's WDT too. We had one on the ranch that was similar. I may be turning my rendering of it, weeks later though, I hope Stoy will not get mad if I do. I am going to post my update now and look at what others say may be needed for it after my Dr. appt today. First though, I will take a stroll thru the D/s fora and get inspired some more. LOL WC is my daily shot of inspiration. :cat:

[Judi1957]

Hi Sults :wave:
Looking good! -I wanted to comment at lunch time but the thread was running worst than slow for some reason. :(
I see JayD concurs with what I told you---you are a more soft lady! :)
I think you need to still soften your facial lines including your nose---smooth them out-portray that softness. Pull your chin back a tad (to the right) and then you will need to recheck the position of your cleft. Bring the line that extends from your nose to your mouth in the ref closer to your mouth. Try holding your drawing over the ref in front of a strong light source and check your mouth shape.
Round out your iris's more. Recheck your lips.Check the shadowing of your cheekbones. Fluff out your bangs more. See the distance from the end of your nose to the side of your face (horizontally)-compare those distances.

[sultry]

lol ok Judi, I will, Royal Rein sent me this in a pm b4 I went to the Dr today and I studied it. I think it should be printed here tho, so others can learn from his C&C. Ty again RR :cat: I really appreciate this alot.

[Fireman's kid]

Recheck your lips.Check the shadowing of your cheekbones. Fluff out your bangs more.

Hey Judi - are you giving make up tips or drawing tips? :D When I read this I got a image of Sults primping before a mirror.

Sults, thanks for sharing Royal Rein's corrections! Boy, he's good.

I wanted to say that I can already feel your eyes staring at me. I actually had to scroll them up above the screen because I felt like they were looking right into me. (Don't worry...that's a good thing! :) ) This already has the potential to be awesome!!

[vasilkadifeli]

Hey guys :wave:, you are doing a terrific job here :clap: :clap: :clap:... I just had a message from Judi asking me where have I been... to much work nowadays in the office... will try to find some time to go over class 18th and see if you already have started with the next one or not...


Hi Vasil :wave:
Everything OK? We are missing you in Class! :(

Hi Judi :wave:, thank you so much for caring... I love this place... it is full of wonderful people like you...

Yes everything is OK just too much work to do nowadays in the office and I come late home in the evenings... I have just finished with the postcard exchange Project 2005 (just click on my signature image) and I am trying to paint in the watercolor monthly classrooms also...

I was trying to read your posts and look at your work in JayD's classroom threads even if I wasn't drawing but couldn't do it so much with the 18th one... I think you must have already moved on to the 19th one...

Actually I am also procrastinating a little bit... I have one wc landscape drawing in front of me to start painting...

Will try at least to read the posts even if I will not be drawing... thanks again...

[JayD]

Sults, when I was a kid we had a tractor like this and attached to the back was a bush hog. You probably know what I am talking about but for the city slickers here it is essentially a HUGE lawnmower used for cutting brush and stuff--we would then bale the hay (mechanically) in to squares which we would use to fee the horses. Great fun--The thing about bush hogs is that if you reside in a hilly region, those things could flip over--very dangerous so we had to RIDE on the back of the bush hog in order to provide the ballast to keep it from flipping.

The weekly drawing thread is just like the classes--work at your own pace--a rushed piece will not be of benefit to any of you--get to it when you get to it--remember that the thread will pop back up to the top when you post.

By the way the RR's Sults chart is very interesting--it looks like one of those Phrenology charts that predicted your character by your facial features. :)

Thanks for posting it to the class--very informative.

Vasil, I appreciate what you are saying about office work taking over--that seems to be the theme song over here this week!

[Deb Leger]

'Specially for Judi! After replying to your pm last night, I worked on this. :D

Can there be anything as depressing as working on your own self portrait??? :( :( :(

Not much, but at least the hair's started. (And I am kinda happy with the lights I saved in the reflections - I have a major problem with saving whites when painting. :D Wow, something positive! :evil: :evil: :evil:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-May-2005/11775-sp1.JPG

[bjcpaints]

Barb-This is not pathetic-but you need to develop it. Can you post your reference?

Sorry I am so far behind. Ummm, I looked in a mirror for the one I drew last year and the one I did last weekend is from my driver's license. I don't think I want to post that! I will try again someday when I have more time.

[Reinhard1]

Deb, your hair is spectacular. That makes me really want to see the continuation of your sp.

[Judi1957]

'Specially for Judi! After replying to your pm last night, I worked on this. :D

Good girl! :evil: :evil: :D
Really nice hair! Now the rest! Hop to it!-smiley cracking whip! :D

[jmfletch]

Again thank you to all who commented on my previous version. I think I incorporated most if not all of the comments. The image is too big for my scanner and I took about 15 shots but can't get rid of the shine from the graphite, so please excuse the image quality. I worked on finishing this in my art group today...and got 9 more inputs. I can honestly say I am happy with it.

Oh and JAyD thank you for that awesome compliment!!!

Deb - Great Start!! :clap:

Sults thanks for posting His Majesty's comments. As usuall they were spot on even though I didn't see most of them. {Actually the only one I even noticed was that the pupil was not round, :D } As we were all saying earlier, it helps so much to look through another's eyes!! especially those with a keen artistic eye. Also I agree that you have softer features than you are indicating (and bear a srong resemblance to Sophia Loren which I seeem to have heard before.)

Joe

[Judi1957]

Hey Joe :music:
Wonderful! :clap: :clap: I would be very happy myself too!
Can I comment? Just a couple small areas of highlight/shading. I think it would be good to add a tad more shadowing above your lip on your right side so it receeds back a bit further than your left side area above your lip. I would lessen the shadowing a tad above the bridge of your nose and round out the highlight a tad on your nose to give you your nose a more rounded appearence. See-all tads :D Great work there Cary-Jim-Joe-Bob! :clap: :clap:

[sultry]

Hiyas Deb beautiful job on the hair gf. I think your off to a great start. One thing I can offer is for you to draw your glasses on separate piece of paper. Trace it, lay the traced glasses over your rendered face and alter it that way. After you have it the way you want, you can apply it boldly on your face so it will look like it is sitting on the face and not a part of the face. Always remember to do the cast shadows from the glasses also.

Hey Joe, great job on the sp, I agree with Judi on the C&C but all & all you did a wonderful sp (for someone who did not want to put a face on his gorgeous figure drawing). lol :evil: You sure fooled me, You can DO faces well, & now I want to see a face on that woman. (inserts hands on hips smiley here).
Oh ty Judi, calls me Sophia sometimes. lol

Judi, hiyas gf check your pms.
Jay you should do the tractor in cp and add you as a gangly teen upon it. :)

Ooopps here is my update & I hope it is ready for the transfer because I this paper is a mess. lol

[Jolanta]

Hi to all of you. :wave:
I came in just for a minute - sorry. I was very busy preparing for an interview with the gallery. Had to compose impressive resume, biography, statement - they looked at my originals and said - it's great - you are in :D
I know I should help more here but life is just tooo darn busy now.
I think I can go over Joe's sp. I think this is just about where I dissapeared :(
Joe - I like what you did and I like Judi's comments. She is right about the nose and forehead. I personally love the way you did your right eye. It looks sooooo real :clap: I would make sure the left eye has pupil as dark as it can be and bright small highlight. Right now it's a bit confusing. Try to lift the lines showing especially at the edge of the upper lips. There are NO lines, it's done by shading! I can see every single hair in the eyebrows - can you shade them a bit to loose this drawn look. What it's happening now - your overall shading is so good the drawing looks like a photo but places like - lines in lips and single hair in eyebrows don't match the general impression. I hope you know what I am trying to say. Do what Judi says and what I say :D and show us again :evil:
This is lovely - don't stop yet
Jolanta

[Judi1957]

Sults you are getting there! :D
Couple of things, I think your lower lid on your right eye juts out too far towards the edge of your face. Smooth out your face on your right side near your mouth. Push your lower left jaw out a bit to the drawings right-recheck the shape. Re-check also your iris positions. Your brow over your right eye is mis-shapen. Lift the (EDIT) left side of your mouth. Add some more hair (thickness) alongside your head at your forehead. You have your chin cleft indicated up/down-it needs to angle back towards the right.

And darn it girl-fluff those bangs! :D (kidding :) ha-ha-I see they just got cropped out )

[Judi1957]

Hi to all of you. :wave:
I was very busy preparing for an interview with the gallery. Had to compose impressive resume, biography, statement - they looked at my originals and said - it's great - you are in :D
Jolanta

CONGRATULATIONS JOLANTA! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[sultry]

Yippeee Jolanta that is wonderful news I 2nd what Judi says.

Judi, ok I will do all that you said but do you mean my left (viewers left) or the sp's left. I get so confused with that.

[Mary Woodul]

Congratulations, Jolanta. Keep us updated. :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Mary Woodul]

Wow, Joe, I hadn't seen your sp, that is spectacular. it shows lost of character. Sults your is looking good and Deb i am really looking forward to seeing yours. :wave:

[Judi1957]

Sults- your left (on the drawings right) Yeah-there should be a universal rule at WC that we only refer to the drawings left/right. I think we all tend to go back and forth on that which causes :confused: .

[sultry]

Judi, even though I am posting update, I think my sp right eye (viewers left) is still too small. I will fix it tomorrow I am tooo tired tonite. Ty for all the help gf your a doll. hugs ya tight and yawns and says nitey nite. :cat:

[Deb Leger]

Sults, your sp is coming along wonderfully! Thanks for the tip on doing glasses - I'll do that for sure.

Reinhard, thank you for all your invaluable help, and for the comment you made on my attempt.

CJ, you did a fine job on yours! (Love the hat!)

Judi, thanks for the push and cracking the whip. :evil: I didn't get any chance to work on it tonight but hope to tomorrow. And this weekend is a long weekend here in Canada (Victoria Day) so I'll have an extra day off! :clap:

Joe, you sure did an awesome job on your sp!!!! Wow!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: (And when Judi mentioned Jim Carrey, I thought, yes I see him in there. Not that he's a favourite actor of mine or anything, even if he *is* Canadian. :evil: )

Jolanta, congratulations!!! :clap: :clap: You must be so happy, that's great!

Mary, thanks.

Deb

[sultry]

Ty Deb & glad the glasses tip helped.
OK, I am sick of this typing paper it does not let me blend at all on it. So sorry guys I am transfering this to better paper now. Ty for the great C&C everyone RR, Judi, Stacy and whomever else. :cat: Oh, btw, Judi that is not a cleft on my chin it is a silly little dimple. LOL , my father had one too, my grandmother used to say it was from a kiss from a angel and I remember I told a childhood gf about that and she used to tape a bean to her chin at night, hoping to get one too, so she could say she was kissed by an angel too. LOL isn't that cute?

[Reinhard1]

sults when you transfer, please check the roundness of the eyes again, I "feel" they're a tad off. Great continuation though! :clap:

[sultry]

Ok RR do you mean the round is not a complete geo shape sphere? Or do you mean the position of the iris. Or do you mean the eye itself (upper & lower eyelids are not round)? Sorry but I want to do the right thing b4 I apply it to my good paper. Ty for being here.

[Reinhard1]

sults, it is IMHO the geoshape roundness of the right (your left) eye. There appears to be a "bulging" of the iris under the middle outwards making it "unround". I suggest you make a perfect circle with a template on tracing paper and place it over your drawn eye. That might illustrate even better what I mean.

[Jolanta]

Hi Sults,
Your sp. is looking pretty good so far. I agree with what Reinhard says. As far as eyes we are never too careful! You have a very expressive eyes - take plenty of time to make them the focus of your portrait. The "look" is just great - don't loose it. It's very difficult to draw perfect circles for irises and pupils but like it or not they have to be perfect circles. Use whatever you can to get it right.
Jolanta

[Jolanta]

I wanted to thank everybody for being soooo nice and friendly :clap: Even if I don't have time to CC sometimes I just read what you have to say and makes me feel soooo good :D Bunch of terrific people with great sense of humor - life is good - let's enjoy every minute of it!
I will be back before you know it :D
Jolanta

[sultry]

Hiyas Jolanta
Ty so much & yes I did make sure this time to find a sphere and use it for them. I will post my update later or tomorrow. We are so glad to have you here Jolanta and glad you will be looking in on us. We will miss you though but understand you have alot on your plate now with the gallery. So, yes that should be your priority time. :cat:

[jmfletch]

First off...CONGRATULATIONS JOLANTA!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Judi/Jolanta/Sultry - Will tweak some more this weekend. Thanks for C&C, I am getting into my granddaughter's portrait at the moment and a shift back to the SP will be depressing. :D

Sultry, I do have another figure study started somewhere but it is from the back, so...no face. :evil:

Mary - Thank you for the kind words!

Deb - LOL. The Cary-Jim-Joe-Bob involves multiple references but not Jim Carrrey! (Can't say anything bad about Canadians my son is getting married there this summer and his bride is Canadian.)
The Cary is from earlier in this thread when I did my Cary Grant imitation.
The Jim is referring to JayD frequently calling me Jim vice Joe. I have used Joe aka Jim as a signature at times.
The Joe is...well, my name.
The Bob is new. Although if Judi is from "Southern" PA she may have meant Joe Bob which would be southern for Joe. :D

Cary-Jim-Joe-Bob :angel:

[sultry]

Hi everyone, :wave:
OK I Am FARRRRRRRRR from done on this. I have hit so many blocks lately as I have told Stacy :) I was bogged down by stress with how my current health and personal life is at this moment. My block was not only with my creative side but also with my thinking side too. I was not able to concentrate with Carmelo's business at stake, I was so stressed with worrying if I did the paperwork correctly. Did I send out things? Did I get them done & in on time? ect...ect... What this did was just stress me out so bad that I could not feel peace at all to draw.
So I decided to sit myself down and take each item in that office that I was not sure of and write down everything that needed to be done. I looked at it as a mountain when I was all done. Only, I did each thing and checked it off and what seemed like a mountain was really a pile of dust easily blown off the with a check mark as I did it correctly. I was so relieved that I, even had the desire and inspiration to work on sp. It opened my eyes to see what was needed and help me get more of a likeness ( ask Judi, she saw a very younger sp of me). I was able to age myself lol.
Right now, I am trying to discover my values and my strokes, you will see that I have different strokes all over the face and I am not sure which road I will take to complete this. I have not done much in contour so nothing is how it should be yet. I will say I am closer to what I want though.
I told Stacy I would posting to show her, so here is a update and sorry my scanner is dirty I just noticed. oops
This is done with sketching freehand and taking it to my photo program and comparing my sketch with a layover method and going back to my drawing and fixing the differences.

[Anita Murphy]

Sults - I think that despite everything that is going on in your life you have done a great job on this. I think the hair is AMAZING!!!!!! Actually it all is. :)

[Fireman's kid]

Hi Sults! Thanks for the pm.

This is really coming along GREAT! You have really improved in your shading. I remember back in the beginning when you had mostly mid tones in your drawings. Now look at the whites you saved and the nice darks you already have - and you're not even done yet!

It is all fantastic, but must agree with Anita that what first struck me was the hair, especially the hair on our right side. I swear it could be for a shampoo commercial! :D

I am glad your mountain turned out not to be so high. I'm also working to clear the clutter from my head (no smart remarks from the peanut gallery ;) ) and hope I to find inspiration hiding behind it.

Keep working on this Sults! I think you will be amazed when you are finished. :)

Btw, how is Carmelo's foot doing? Is his cast off yet?

[bjcpaints]

Wow! I agree with Anita and Stacy! I am so encouraged seeing your work here Sultry. I am going to give myself a push!
Barbara

[sultry]

Gee you guys ty for the uplifting praise. I noticed after I posted this alot of things but the main thing that stuck out was the right eye (viewers left). It looks so pale compared to the other one. So, have darkened the upper lid (the lashes and eyeliner, yea I wear that). It made a difference in bringing out that eye. :)
I forgot to tell you I have not blended yet either and I know that will make a big difference in my values and softening the strokes I do have.
Oh Anita, Stacy I have not added the darks & mid value contour to the right side (viewers left)of the hair or top yet. I am so pleased you see my hard work on the side I did work on. I was wondering if it made a difference.
The whites of the eyes needed more shadow to show the roundness so I have added that too (after this post). I will not be posting a new update till I have decided upon what stroke to use. I know this is taking forever but I want to be happy with it and my muse is a slow poke. :)
Barbara I am so glad I can give you encouragement and NOT Discourage you. I am finding that we all have our own time to see what is needed in our own work. If we can learn from others by them demostrating something, then that is great but there are some who have to find it for themselves and no amount of showing or explaining will help till they practice things on their own.
So, with that said, I would be happy to help you if you want me to or need it. Otherwise, I know you will get to where you want in your own due time. :wink2:
Edited to add.. Sorry Stacy just saw your last question, & ty for asking, Carmelo does not have a cast anymore, the Dr. is happy how he has healed so fast. The only thing that worries us & the Dr., is the fact he swells so big at night and that may be because of the whole foot being crushed by 3500 lbs. I think it is a miracle he even has a foot (let alone his life).

[Mary Woodul]

Sults, this really went to my heart. I love it. Your expression says so much, specially in your left eye. That of a little girl begging not go through what you are going through. I also like the contrast in this one without your going to dark and leaving in those highlights. All of this with the geo shapes IMHO makes all more dramatic. I really want to follow this one Sults, it is going to be very good. :clap: :clap: :clap:

[sultry]

I have blended what I had and to be honest I am not happy when I do that because it goes back to mid tone.
I have darkened the eyes and added lashes rounded the eyes a bit more. I need to add more layers to and I have also worked on the other side of the hair. I am not sure when this will be done, I have lost interest again in it, so maybe after my surgery I may come back to it. We will see.
Mary ty for the nice words and I am afraid I lost my contrast by blending. :( I will strive to get it back though when I work this again.
I still am not sure what stroke I will use either lol.
Sorry Reinhard, I did get your pm but I had already done so much on this I did not get a chance to apply your tips. I am not sure how to, because I have changed things around.

[Mary Woodul]

Hi Sults, your expression is still very good, feel your left eye is a little off, but you might want to get to that after. I'm with you Sults. :)

[sultry]

Hi Mary,
Yes I think my blending has pushed some of my facial postions off course. :( Maybe later when I do not have so much on my mind I can fully concentrate on it and see things better on it.
Ty Mary I know you are. :)

[Fireman's kid]

Sults, I didn't know you were having surgery. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers. I think medical issues could distract anyone from doing their best work.

As for your sp, my thought about the blending is that in some spots (esp. on the forehead) there seems to be a rather sudden change from white to mid tone. I don't remember seeing your reference, so maybe that is the way it should be. But it seemed to me that before the blending the transition was smoother.

Hang in there girl! :)

[Judi1957]

Hi Sults! :wave:
Glad you are going to take a break here. You will be able to come back to it with fresh eyes and your areas that need corrected will pop out at you.
I do agree on the shading and highlighing, they do distort as you are IRL.
I agree w/ Mary. Also you need to brighten up the whites of your eyes.
In the original photo-the lowest point of the lid of the eye on the drawings left needs to be higher than the lowest point of the lower lid of the eye on the drawings right.
Recheck your lips. The shape of the left side cupids bow needs to be better defined/shaped. Also the darks for the cracks/lines if the lips needs the angle corrected.
Relocate your cleft shadow and smooth out your chin so it is smoother.

You are going to be fine my dear friend. If I lived closer I would be there with you. But Mary, the rest of the Class and myself will be with you in out hearts tomorrow. Get a good nights sleep sweetie. Wub ya!
hugs,

[sultry]

Yes I see it what you all said (I knew I was going astray when Carmelo said you HAD it what happened???) and I promise to fix this when I have fresh eyes. :) I also recieved a great pm from Dee (she pointed out I have my nose too long, among the shading problem) & Reinhard (pointed out many things) lol on corrections which I will also use in my corrections. Ty everyone and boy is "OR" going to be crowded with all of you. :D

[jmfletch]

Well here is the final product...a few weeks late but ...I did finish it and included the comments from Jolanta, Judy and Judi. Thanks again Ladies!!

Joe

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jun-2005/17342-PICT0824_2.JPG

[Judi1957]

That's our Joe! :clap: :clap: :clap:

[sultry]

:clap: Joe that deserves a Big ~~~KAV~~~:clap: I agree with Judi :)

[jmfletch]

Thank you both for your help and kind words.

Joe

[Reinhard1]

Joe, may I add one more thing, please? FANTASTIC :clap: :clap: :clap: and one more :clap:

[jmfletch]

Thank you, Reinhard. I appreciate that very much.

Joe

[Blah]

Hi class....So far I have seen only the first and last (29th) page of this thread. I came here, referred by Sultry, to look for your photographs/portraits to use in the caricature class.

Jay...thank you for an extremely interesting and useful introduction to portrait drawing.

Joe...that is a very impressive self portrait.

About two weeks ago I had some time to kill in my hotel room and I did the attached drawing looking at myself in the mirror. Sorry Jay, it is rather like a mug shot, but I had not read your instructions then.

I intend to surf this thread now for the images and then come back later to read all the posts and then do another self portrait.

Blah

[Jolanta]

Hi Blah,
I like your sp. I especially like the shading done in diagonal strokes - looks good! I have only one problem with eyes. They look like you are wearing makeup on upper lids. Even if you have long and dark eyelashes they will NOT make this dark wide line on upper lids. Look at your eyes again and if you like you can easily fix it with the kneaded eraser point removing hard edge.
Jolanta

[Judi1957]

Hi Blah! :wave:
Love your style too! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Nice to meet you face to face! :)

[idcrisis55]

Blah, just wanted to say how much I enjoyed your self-portrait and to say hi to everyone. :wave: It is great to put faces with the names.

I hope to be back to class after the 4th of July :).

Ann

[Mary Woodul]

Blah, I just wanted to say your sp is excellent and it is a face that goes with the fine gentleman you are and great artist.

Ann, I've wondered where you have been. I hope you are fine and it is good to see you.

[Blah]

Jolanta, Judi, Ann, and Mary....thank you for the nice comments.

Jolanta, thank you for the comment and suggestion related to the upper eyelid. You are right. I was trying to indicate the shadow cast by the eyelid and lashes on the upper cornea, but did it clumsily. Will definitely correct it and perhaps re-post it when I do another sp after reading and learning from all the posts in this thread.

Blah

[sultry]

Blah your sp is very very good. You look like how I pictured you by the way. I think you caught the kindness in your eyes. I feel a kind heart from you. Oh well not fair though, since no one else said it, I will be the one.
Ok, I know this is from a mirror but we want to see a photo of you too. So come on Bro, you must have a pic of your mug somewhere? lol How about your Driver's License? hee hee :evil:

[StancyMcKatt]

Blah... That is amazing! ^-^ I love the shadeing/pencil work.


Heres my attempt. i know I posted one of these earlier, but I neglected a photo (Well actually a webcam shot, without my glasses)... More like sketches.. I dunno... Portrates are something I only started tinkering with recently. I've mostly done vairous cartoon work. :cat:

[Judi1957]

Hi Crys! :wave:
Nice to see your face! :)
For your sp it would be good for you to develop this a bit more and capture your likeness as to the shape of your face-eyes,nose and mouth. Study your face more and see how far you can take this.
Check out this link (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=226) and do some of the exercises on the facial proportions, the eyes, nose, mouth and hair.
Then develop your face on plain paper-work on it until you have your shapes correct and repost-we can go on from there.
See you later,

[Reinhard1]

Sultry had asked me to post my recent sp here as well.
It is freehand, on acid free, Storchenmuehle Hammer 4R paper, roughly 140 lbs/300 gm/2 with pencils from 6H to 6B, no blending just hatching and circling and A LOT OF PATIENCE.
Hope you like it. Took me roughly 80 - 100 hours (I dind't clock it though).
What did I learn, if you want to get it correct - GO SLOW!!!!!

[Reinhard1]

Here come the next steps..

[Reinhard1]

.... and the next ....

[mhimeswc]

Wow! This is a great self portrait, and a really good likeness. The 100 hours were certainly worth it.

Michelle

[Reinhard1]

... now this is the final picture with some close-ups...

[Reinhard1]

... and these are tha last ones. Thanks for your patience.

[Reinhard1]

Michelle, thanks you. We x-posted while I still tried to get all the stages loaded.

[Judi1957]

LOL Rein-I was hoping you were joking when you told JayD you traced it! Whew....wipes brow :D
Thanks so much for sharing your steps to you masterpiece sp.
Again... :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Reinhard1]

LOL Judi, it was just a joking remark to JayD's comment that I had "traced my eyes".

[Cathie Jones]

Rein, you are truly the KING! This self-portrait is absolutely fantastic. I'm really impressed with the sweater and shirt textures. Did you say what size it is?

[Reinhard1]

CJ, it's a medium. Both, the sweater and the shirt. :D :D :D :angel: :p

[Reinhard1]

CJ, the drawing is 9 1/4" x 11 1/2". Sorry, couldn't resist. :wave:

[Cathie Jones]

CJ, it's a medium. Both, the sweater and the shirt. :D :D :D :angel: :p

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Aug-2005/23460-Smiley_DUH.gif

[Troy Rochford]

I just spent the last hour snooping through this thread again, and I have two questions.

First....

...I have a make-up kit

Um, Jay? What's up man? lol

Second, STACY - Did you get lost on your way to post your self portrait in this thread? I think you did! You said you were doing a self portrait. I see no self portrait. Where, oh where is your self portrait?!! :evil:

[Fireman's kid]

Damn. New teacher so I thought no one would notice those classes I skipped. :wink2: Yup, this is one of the classes I missed out on. I did take the reference shot and have had the best intention of going back and doing it "someday", but you know that saying about good intentions. :evil:

For the record there are a bunch more classes you might notice I am missing from or started a drawing but never finished. I have a list somewhere...

Look at it this way, I'll never run out of things to draw. :D

[mhimeswc]

Me too Stacy. I missed about 4 lessons in a row - plus a few classes where I did only one of the two or three required projects. I lost my list, but I'm sure I could make another one if I ever have the time.

Michelle

[Troy Rochford]

Well Stacy, I'll forgive you since you are, after all, my personal photographer:) I just felt the need to bring this thread back to haunt you though, because you posted several times that you were going to do one!

[Africanart]

Hi

Here is my beginning stages of my self portrait. I have only maped out the areas for myself, but wanted to post it, to get C&C so that I can make any corrections before I start with shading and so on. I have started with a small scale because I felt that I would have more control over the shading and that the bigger area would not be so overwhelming...will go bigger as I get convident.

Thanks


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jan-2006/69011-Mary.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jan-2006/69011-Selfportrait.jpg

[Africanart]

Hi

Here is the final self portrait.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Jan-2006/69011-Mary.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Jan-2006/69011-Selfportrait.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Jan-2006/69011-Selfportraitfinal.jpg

Thanks
Mary

[Africanart]

Hi

Me again after looking at the portrait again and on the pc, it looked very dark and blothcy to me, so I went over it with the pliable eraser just to lift some of the shading. I was also not to happy with the shape of my chin it looked to round, smoothed that out a bit. In real life it looks much better, it looks a bit grainy on the scanned immage:rolleyes: but much happier with the original.

Thanks

Mary

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Jan-2006/69011-selfportrait2.jpg

[Judi1957]

Hi Mary!:wave:
Wow- you look almost exactly like a friend of mine from high school-that is really amazing! Lovely features you have!:)

They do look better IRL than an image here. Tis always so. I get disgusted sometimes with the way my posts look.

I think you did a pretty good job as you have caught your essence but I think you would help you to visit HERE (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=226) and browse thru these Classrooms in the Portraiture Forum.
I think the one in particular you should read thru is the one on facial proportions. Also look at the eyes, nose and mouth. I go over there all the time as the information there is fantastic!!!!
Another thing you need to pay close attention to is careful measuring.
Your forehead in your drawing is not quite tall enough and your mouth is too high up. Let me know what you think about the link.
Looking forward to seeing what you get out of it!
See you later!:wave:

[Reinhard1]

Mary, congratulations. This is you, no doubt. :clap: :clap:

Would you like me to go into an in detail walk through my observations on top of what Judi already said? Or better still, why don't you come over to class 33 and we could do another project together when we will do the female portrait?

[mauricar]

Is there someplace where I can get the lessons without all the chatter? I like the chatter, but I am bed bound, and would like to print out the lesson so I can do it, then come back online to post or read what others are saying. Does that make sense?

[Anita Murphy]

Midge - I will see if I can PM you the class instructions separately.

[mauricar]

Thank you Anita.

[mauricar]

Here are my first lines on the self portrait.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2006/71456-self_portrait_ver_1.jpg
I have a double chin, so that line belongs there (lol). I can't see without the glasses, even though they are lopsided. :rolleyes: Just got my hair cut, so it is very, very short. Hmm. Perhaps I will take a photograph and try from that. It is easier to paint other people!

I have a photograph from a couple of years ago, can I use that?

[Anita Murphy]

Midge - use any ref picture you like of yourself. Please post the ref with your drawing so we can give you an accurate critique.

Is it easier drawing other people? I think its easiest drawing people we know, whose faces are familiar to us. I guess we know our own faces most of all. I always find when doing self-portraits that my sisters, mother and daughter all seem to appear in the picture at various stages of drawing.

[mauricar]

I don't see me when I draw me. That is the problem. I see this older fat lady looking back at me. One with white hair even. Hmmmmm. What happened to that blonde, blue eyed, younger woman that used to look back at me?

Drawing other people is easy because I can measure everything. Got to go, someone just rang my bell. I'll be back.

[mauricar]

I am going to use this shot of myself to work from. I hope it is okay.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2006/71456-000_0628.jpg
I am not very good at pencil portraits. I am trying to get better, so we shall see, won't we.
:eek:

[Anita Murphy]

Midge - super picture - nice shadows! I can promise you this - with each portrait you do it will get better. Remember Practice makes perfect!

[Fozbot]

Midge, this is a great ref! you have a wonderful smile and i love the twinkle in your eyes.:)

[mauricar]

Thank you Billie. Here is after an hour:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2006/71456-self_portrait_ver_2.jpg
Did you want this one like the one in class 33?

[Anita Murphy]

Yes please Midge - just makes it easier!!!

[mauricar]

Two hours:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2006/71456-self_portrait_ver_3.jpg
Got to fix a tooth I busted. Not my own, just the picture. Are you sure you want little bitty circles? It takes 20-30 hours.

[mauricar]

Here is the last one for tonight. I'll quite sending so many. Any and all comments are welcome.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2006/71456-self_portrait_ver_4.jpg
It is not itsy bitsy circles, just small lines of shading. Those circles drive me nuts, and laying in bed trying to do them is even worse. Sorry to complain, but I have to lie on my stomach and reach over the side of the bed to draw right now. It is hard to do circles like that. Try it, then get back to me with a good way to do it. Okay? If this style is not okay, then I'll need to postpone this class for about 6 months. I have treatments coming up during the next few months and will be down during that time. Let me know, okay?
Sweet dreams, and I'll check in tomorrow.
:wave:

[sultry]

Hiyas Midge, Hope you do not mind my popping in with my 2 cents worth. :)

This class is not set for using the circle technique it is mainly to learn how to line draw the portrait, porportions, actual shading techniques of different kinds and to get likeness.

I think you need to find what works for you, It will show in your artwork. If you create a rendering while your happy doing it, believe me others will feel your vibes. Just as they will feel it if you are uncomfortable with the way you rendered it. So draw contently, the effect will be pleasant for the viewer.

Class 33 is for the circle technique it is an assignment. This class is for you to explore what you like to do. Use what you learned in the prior classes to render your portrait. :) Good Luck and so far it looks like you have a good start on the glasses. :thumbsup:

[Anita Murphy]

Hi Sults - good to see you here!!!!

Midge - Sultry is totally right - don't feel compelled to use circularism - even in class 33. Class 33 is about realistic portraiture and there are other methods even for that! Suddenly realised what you meant when you said did we want it like class 33 - I answered yes. What I meant was could we have the ref next to your drawing. :D

You've got great shine on the glasses - well done! And this is definitely you! Keep going - you're doing just great!

[Reinhard1]

Midge, fantastic piece, and taking the constraints into account even more super-fantastic. I love the looseness of your style.

Circling? It is nothing but one way to achieve a great drawing. It works for some and it doesn't do it for others. Who is to say what is right or wrong. Experiment with all styles and stick to what feels most natural with you.

My 2 cents, and I LOVE them little circles (for me). But to make it mandatory to participate in any given class then the class should not be called "realistic portraits" but "only circling allowed" and then it would not be an art class but a technical show.

[mauricar]

Thank you , thank you, thank you. I was really worried about those circles. Phew! I will continue on with this portrait, and then put them both side by side. Thanks again for clearing up the confusion. Life is hard enough without doing something I don't need to do. ((as she bows her head in deep respect to those who can do circles well)).

[sultry]

LOL, I agree Midge, life is hard, why have something we love to do, be difficult? Just render your portrait with what ever techniques you like. Hey I use crosshatching, line drawing and circularism in all my drawings from the start. :wink2:

Hiyas Anita & bro :):wave:

[mauricar]

Here are the two heads together:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Feb-2006/71456-grayscaleselfportrait.jpg
Getting there. Opps. I see I need to darken under the chin much more. It looks like I have one very long chin. But isn't that better than three chins (lol)

Should I put in the dark background? I wouldn't put in the clock and the plant, but just a darker background.

[Reinhard1]

Midge, lovely :clap: :clap: :clap:

Question; could you take a look at the eyes, please? Right now it appears that you are a little bit cross-eyed in the drawing. Do the pupils look parallel in the rendering, or is it just the scan?

When you darken under the chin, you are right, could you please take a look at the corners of the mouth as well? These are usually nearly as dark as the pupils.

And I am a "no background guy". So I naturally vote for no. I think a background always takes away from the portrait. It is such a warm and friendly smile, I'd let it stand as is. IMHO

[mauricar]

Here is a revision:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Feb-2006/71456-grayscaleselfportrait3.jpg
I redid the right (our right) eye, and darkened the sides of the mouth. Added more shadowing to the neck, and the chair back as well as the clothing. What do you think?

[Anita Murphy]

Midge - check the length of your chin - I think it might be a tiny bit too long. WOw you are certainly moving along with this!!! On backgrounds - I am always torn - by the time the portrait is done I am usually so fed up I don't want to do a background!!

[Reinhard1]

Midge, thanks for the update but I think it is our left eye that appears to be a tad too far on our right.

[mauricar]

Oh my. I did the wrong eye. Well, I will try to fix that.

Here is the corrected chin.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Feb-2006/71456-grayscaleselfportrait4.jpg

[Reinhard1]

Midge, could you please try to make the chin a bit less pointed and smooth the highlight a bit out under our left cheek? If I'm too picky, please yell, otherwise I'll continue till my eyes fall out.

[mauricar]

Hi Reinhard. I'll check out the chin and the highlight. I just need to comment on your comment on the eye. I got out my calipers and it is right where the photo has it. Should I make the change so that it is optically better? or should I just leave that alone? I'll make those other changes, then be right back.

Bye the bye, you can comment on my work any time. I like to improve and you can help me do that.

[Judi1957]

Hey Midge!:wave:
Rein is a bit picky:D -but this is good thing. Your portrait is looking great!

[Anita Murphy]

Midge - the great thing about Reinhard is that he makes you look more carefully yourself.

[Fozbot]

Midge, i'm popping in to see how you're doing. keep up the great work!:) for what it's worth, i think when you start to put in the darker values the eyes will read correctly. sorry, Rein.:( i'm not sure what type of prescription you have in your eyeglasses but i'm thinkin' it enlarges and slightly distorts the shape and size of your eyes. it's up to you whether you want to stay true to the ref or take out your artist liscense.;)

[mauricar]

Here is the latest revision:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Feb-2006/71456-self_portrait_ver_9.jpg

[mauricar]

Thanks Judi, Anita, Billie. I agree, Reinhard is good at what he does. I can learn a lot from him. Artistic license will bear out.

[Reinhard1]

Midge, alot better!!!
Now to the next thing. The "white" of the yes are NEVER white. White in a drawing should be reserved for the highlights in the eyes. Having said that, please take a look at the difference we have between the right side or our right eye and all the other "whites of the eyes". Right now we have a little "blood shot" right eye, outside that is. I think if we smoothe it out we will do a lot better.

As for the positioning of the pupils to each other and being correct, I think you adapted (correctly) a little bit the left corner of our left eye.

Staying with the eyes, Could you please check the position in height of the 2 pupils compared to each other? I have the feeling that they are on different levels, either the (our) right one too high or the (our) left one too low. Am I off?

Chin looks better. Now for the shading. In the reference I see shading on the lower part of the chin. I can't make that out in the drawing. This could be however the scan since that often "forgets" softer shading and offers pure white. But a look at the lower (our) right side of the mouth might reveal that there could be a little bit more shading indicating the form - or is this th scan as well?

Before you hit me, I'll run for a while LOL.

[mauricar]

lol. Well, lets see. The eye comment is absolutely correct. The pupil is lower on the left. I will fix that. I had erasered it when I made the other correction. DUH! The scan has eliminated the shading, IRL it is there. But I can make it darker. OHmy darker ........... But I can do that. I'll get back with you.

[mauricar]

There is something wrong with WC. It is moving very slowly. I will try to post and see what happens.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Feb-2006/71456-grayscaleselfportrait6.jpg
I blotted the eyes alittle bit. Shaded the whites, darkened the chin. But when I scan, I don't see any difference. Any suggestions?

[Reinhard1]

Midge, you're doing just fine. If the shading is there in RL, that is important. Don't worry about scans. You will be looking at your drawing and not a the scan.

One more little thing. First, and most of all, I'd leave the face as is. Likeness is at least 100%, you caught that certain smile so perfectly, your drawing radiates personality and understanding. What is a shade more or less in this situation? But.....

please look at the neck on both sides where the collar meets the skin. I would put in there a REALLY dark small area indicating the cast shadow of the dress on the skin to separate the 2. Then, you could add those shadings under the second line from the chin to make the skin there recede a bit and indicate more form. AND give the hair some dark areas to bring out the bright shine.

More than that, I don't see.

Ah, yes. The most important thing. Sign it, spray it, and pat yourself on the back for a great drawing. I am proud of you!!!!!!!! :wave: :clap: :clap: :clap: :thumbsup:

p.s. I nearly forgtot. Take your pencils, your paper, your dividers, your erasers, and your paper and come see us over at class 33 for realisitic male or class 34 for realistic female portraits. I'll be on the lookout for you. :wave: :wave: :wave:

[mauricar]

Thank you Reinhard.

[Anita Murphy]

Midge - you have done SO well with this - pat on the back time! :clap: :clap: :clap: Can YOU see how much you learnt? Remember its all about looking carefully for shapes and tonal values. A portrait is no different to drawing any other object though for some reason it has us all terrified! I am so proud of your handling of this! Well done!

[mauricar]

Thank you Anita. I'll see you around.

[GeorgeEen]

Hello everyone! :wave:

I completed Class 5 a few days ago and I am now allowed to go anywhere I want and look where I landed up! I am looking forward to this and hope to learn a lot from all of you. Attached is a drawing I did last fall.

See ya later!

[Anita Murphy]

George - this is very nice!!! Are you going to do this class? We'd love to see you here!

[Reinhard1]

George, a drawing that show a LOT of talent and potential. Would love to see more from you in this class (as well).

[GeorgeEen]

Hey you guys, I am blushing! I don't think I am that good, that's why I am going to stick it out here to learn a lot.
Thanks Anita! ( We met before :-) )
Thanks Reinhard I truly value your opinion.
OK, back to work...

[Fozbot]

George, i agree w/Rein. you seem to have a knack for doing portraits. it would be great to see you develop this one more.