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lpb
04-23-2005, 04:53 PM
I've been using graphite transfer paper recently to put my outline on WC paper (Arches cold press 140 lb.) I am having difficulty removing the lines that don't get adequately covered by paint. I tried kneaded eraser, white eraser, the tannish crumbly eraser (sorry don't know the official names) and regular pencil eraser. None seem to be very effective, even in areas with minimal paint coverage. :confused: Any suggestions? Thanks.

bluegenes
04-23-2005, 05:07 PM
I've had the same problem with graphite paper. The only think the eraser does is makes the lines a bit lighter. I wouldn't use anything but a kneaded eraser, as I'd be afraid the others might do damage to the paper.
I used graphite paper when I first started painting because I didn't think I could draw. I've moved on to using a grid method if I want something to look very similar to the reference. I use very light pencil lines. They are easier to erase. Otherwise I draw freehand now.

Hope this helps,
Patty

lpb
04-23-2005, 07:18 PM
Thanks. I wondered if that was the case. Sooner or later I'm gonna have to get up the courage to DRAW. :wave:

JustjoGA
04-23-2005, 07:30 PM
In the Drawing and Sketching forum, there is an ongoing EXCELLENT tutorial on Basic Drawing 101... It is well worth the time to go through and read, and do some of the exercises... It will at the very least make you more comfortable doing your own drawing for paintings... Check it out!

Jo in Georgia

drollere
04-23-2005, 09:35 PM
chinese proverb: don't put on what you can't take off.

try using a more heavily sized paper, such as arches. sounds like your paper does not have much surface sizing. this dissolves under the paint, and carries the pencil marks with it. (assuming they are not grossly dark.)

jspatton
04-23-2005, 10:37 PM
try using a more heavily sized paper, such as arches. sounds like your paper does not have much surface sizing.

Well, this can't be the problem since lpb stated in the original post that he/she (sorry I don't know your gender :p ) is using 140 lb. Arches CP. Your best bet if you don't like the looke of graphite showing in the finished work is to make sure your drawing is very, very light before applying any paint at all. I have to admit to occasionally using graphite transfer paper myself and I find that gently rubbing the lines with a kneaded eraser before laying any paint down gets it faint enough that I can still see the image but the lines don't jump out. And once you lay even a very light watery wash down over graphite it most likely isn't going to come up. That's been my experience, anyway.

Hope this helps. :wave:

lpb
04-24-2005, 03:45 PM
The transfer does make darker lines than what I got when I rubbed a graphite stick on the back of my reference piece & traced it that way. Usually didn't have much prob with the graphite showing in the finished piece, but it was messy. That's why I thought I'd try the transfer paper.

WenValley
04-26-2005, 07:01 PM
Some brands of transfer paper are almost impossible to remove, but other brands (sorry I can't provide more info, I don't have the original package) are much easier to remove, good luck.

Another tip is that I use sheets of blank printer paper to protect areas of the watercolor paper from misc. smudges from the transfer paper. Good Luck.

JustinM
04-26-2005, 07:56 PM
Personally i am a line-lover, so i leave mine in, the lines work with my style.

However, if you're really worried about lines, Id suggest using home-made graphite transfer paper (plus its a LOT cheaper).

Just in case any of you dont know how to make your own transfer paper, let me give you my technique:

All you need is some tracing paper, lighter fluid, tissue, tape and graphite...oh and a few minutes:

* Cut the piece of tracing paper to your specs
* Take your graphite pencil (i like using a 6B woodless) and cover the entire sheet of tracing paper. Try not to leave too many 'bare' areas, but you dont really have to "force" it either - the next step will even it all out.
* Squirt a little lighter fluid onto a tissue - rub rub rub the paper into a nice, smooth finish!

At this point you really are done, but I also like to:
* Tape the edges of the paper with masking tape (this will help prevent rips)

This paper should work for about 20-30 transfers ;) And, unlike commercial sheets, Ive never had a problem removing my lines (albeit i dont want to remove them often!) ;)

Good luck!

Eliz
04-26-2005, 11:02 PM
I've had the same problem with graphite paper. Not only were the lines permanent, but they also seemed to repel paint like a duck's back, making them even more obvious.

I haven't gotten as fancy as Justin's home made transfer paper (a very cool idea!) but I have had good luck by holding my drawings upside down against a window for light, and scribbling with a soft pencil over the backs of the lines. Then when I put the drawing rightside up on top of my watercolor paper and trace it, I get a nice faint transfer, that erases easily.

Liz

mmcaloon
04-27-2005, 11:19 AM
I start with a Kneaded erraser stretched/reshaped into a tube and then rolled across the paper. Then rubbed on any reamining dark areas.

I did find sometimes to have large areas with graphite residue still on the paper. I have found a "paper cleaning" bag used by draftsmen in clean paper when they drew evertything by hand. It is a cloth bag with eraser type material in side. This bag is rubbed over the paper and does a great job of removing unwnated graphite residue.

manfrommerriam
04-27-2005, 12:08 PM
Well this is a tough one. The carbon has been worked, washed or pressed inside the paper. I'd first try to lift whats on the surface without any more pressure. There are some good ideas above. Then... You say areas not painted on and Arches 140#... Then get some of that new watercolor "white-out" and paint it on, there are several variations made for a specific watercolor papers; I believe one is available for what you are working on. Check the art materials catalogues and websites to find this stuff. Have fun :) Dave

lpb
04-27-2005, 04:51 PM
Not only were the lines permanent, but they also seemed to repel paint like a duck's back, making them even more obvious.
Liz
I too have found this.

I like the idea of making your own transfer paper on tracing paper. I had been rubbing graphite onto the back of my photocopied reference pic & tracing over the image with a pen. It worked ok, but makes such a mess out of the reference copy, which i like to keep to handy while I'm working. I already have some tracing paper, so I think I'll try your method, with or without the lighter fluid step.

JustinM
04-27-2005, 05:36 PM
I like the idea of making your own transfer paper on tracing paper. I had been rubbing graphite onto the back of my photocopied reference pic & tracing over the image with a pen. It worked ok, but makes such a mess out of the reference copy, which i like to keep to handy while I'm working. I already have some tracing paper, so I think I'll try your method, with or without the lighter fluid step.

Try it with lighter fluid, trust me! it makes all the difference in the world because it seems to 'bind' the graphite - thus totally elimating "pressure smudges' - basically the line of the tracing is the only thing that transfers over to the paper ;)

LilKitten
05-01-2005, 06:48 PM
use a 7h pencil and don't press hard, or use a watercolor pencil which will dissolve once the water hits it...

juneto
05-02-2005, 01:07 AM
I agree with Justin. I was taught that my Pencil marks were like the marks of a Chisel by a Sculptor. I.E., the Artists marks.
Also make my own Graphite Paper, only difference is, I use Alcohol instead of Lighter Fluid wiped gently with cotton Ball .I tape all sides with masking tape . for easy handling and have it for years and years. Tuck it away in the back of a Pad.
June :)

Ketze
05-14-2005, 11:28 PM
a very effective alternative that really solves this problem is to use a dry pastel pencil. I use some Steadler pastel pencils or you can use a conte dry pastel crayon & make your transfer as you would using graphite instead.
Use colours that will blend well with the overall colour scheme of your painting or once you've got your lines down on the painting surface just give a sweep of a brush to completely remove the pastel lines when you are ready to paint that area.
This works so much better & you dont have to worry about the graphite transfering to other areas if you put pressure on the paper while you are transfering the lines.

wayfarer
05-15-2005, 10:00 AM
I'd suggest too, using a watercolor pencil in a neutral color.

The lines bug me too. Once they get wet, they're hard as ever to remove. In the future you can try erasing them perhaps after you've blocked around them. I've also found that if you mask over the lines that will lighten them up a bit. The difficulty removing lines also varies with the paper. Arches 140lb cold press seems easier than the 300lb. or the hot press. Arches is also easier to work with verus Lanaquarelle. Fabriano papers seem to erase a bit easier than the average.

For graphite paper, I use Sally's Wax Free Artist Graphite Paper. I haven't had a problem removing lines when I use it. Good luck!

Chris

Roun2it
05-16-2005, 10:31 AM
I too make my own tracing paper, but instead of lighter fluid, which sounds too whoooooooshh!! I use surgical spirits, (or rubbing alcohol as its called in the states I think) to bind the graphite. Works well no smudging.