Help with grisaille underpainting...

[gordoiye]

Hi all,

Any suggestions on which colour(s) I should use for the grisaille underpainting for this project? My last attempt (and my first i might add) turned out a little bit dark, but I'm determined to get it right at some point... hopefully the pic is big enough...

I'll post the WIPS as I go on this one.

thx,
Gord

[Karen Cardinal]

What kind of grisaille are you planning to do?

Regular grisaille using greys, complementary underpainting, sepia, verdigris, monochromatic using indigos or dark purples, etc.?

If you are thinking of compelementary colors you may want to look up some of the wips here where people have used that. My understanding is what works best is a greyed complement of your local color that is about one to two shades lighter than your final color.

[RobinZ]

I can't help here, but just had to poke fun at Karen's menu. You weren't a waitress in your last life, were ya? :D

[Karen Cardinal]

I can't help here, but just had to poke fun at Karen's menu. You weren't a waitress in your last life, were ya? :D
LOL! :D
So folks... what'll it be? Can I interest ya' in one of our split complementary specials today? Our red, green-yellow, green-blue combination is very popular. ;) :D

[wet]

I'm partial to sepia Karen. :D Welcome Gord!!! Can't wait for your wip. Maybe you could show us the one you aren't happy with. Sometimes we can learn more from the ones that don't work and someone here might beable to see what went wrong. :wave: wanda

[brynmr]

LOL! :D
So folks... what'll it be? Can I interest ya' in one of our split complementary specials today? Our red, green-yellow, green-blue combination is very popular. ;) :D

Blue-plate special and make it snappy doll. I got the midnight bus ta catch and she don't wait for no one. ;)

Karen, how would one get a grayed complimentary? Adding another layer of gray?

[Katherine T]

Gord - you can go quite a bit bigger than this when posting images. I wouldn;t mind seeing a bigger version of your reference image - looks as if could be very nice! :D

Katherine

[Karen Cardinal]

Blue-plate special and make it snappy doll. I got the midnight bus ta catch and she don't wait for no one. ;)

Karen, how would one get a grayed complimentary? Adding another layer of gray?
Hmmmmm... did I confuse you or is it me that's confused?
Or maybe I missed the joke... again. :rolleyes: ;)

A traditional grisaille is created with different shades of grey.
A complementary underpainting is created by using complementary colors... no greys.
You can mix some fabulous greys by using complementary colors.

Gord, you can post an image 500 pixels wide or tall. If you have a larger image I'm sure Katherine (and the rest of us) would appreciate seeing it. :D

[gordoiye]

sorry, that's the size I'm working from LOL... ;)

I used a complementary underpainting on "greekvillage" (unfinished)... i was pleased with most of it, tho I think I went too dark so I had to lift some of the underpainting off.

here's also a bigger pic of "blossoms" - the house in the bg is up the street from mine... i'm currently mapping out the drawing, and I'm using Mi Teintes pastel paper 12"x16" (an orangey/tan colour)

Karen, I'll have a combo plate of artsticks (watching the carbs). :D

thanks for looking,
Gord

[JayD]

OK, I want to jump in here because this is THE thing that really bugs me about art books. Many authors tell you which color to use for the grisaille BUT fail to tell you why. So far, I have seen black, sepia, grape, complementary, graphite, indigo blue, and the list goes on and on and on and still I do not get it. the only that makes sense is the complementary.

AND when do you know which one to use? Someone enlighten me.

[Karen Cardinal]

Oh you should finish "greekvillage" sometime. That is wonderful looking! The colors already "sing". :D

Have you looked at some of the complementary wips here?
Cyclamen by pinkrybns (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=264251)
Asian Influences by Arlene (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195831)
Horse by CarrieLLewis (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137324)

Karen, I'll have a combo plate of artsticks (watching the carbs). :D
LOL! Would ya' like a side of fixative with that? ;)

[Karen Cardinal]

OK, I want to jump in here because this is THE thing that really bugs me about art books. Many authors tell you which color to use for the grisaille BUT fail to tell you why. So far, I have seen black, sepia, grape, complementary, graphite, indigo blue, and the list goes on and on and on and still I do not get it. the only that makes sense is the complementary.

AND when do you know which one to use? Someone enlighten me.
Ok... I don't use a grisaille anymore, but when I used to I would adjust the color(s) I'd use for it depending on the color of my paper and the final look I was after.

It's not really something that can be described... you have to experiment to see the differences.
Try this...
Draw a simple outline and create a number of grisailles using the same outline on the same paper. I'd do a number of 5x5 sketches all on the same page.
Create one grisaille with graphite, one with greys, one with indigo, one with tuscan red or black grape, one with dark green, one with umbers, one with complementary colors, etc., etc. You can create as many as you want to experiment with. Add your top colors and see how different they will look.
Now try the same thing on a toned paper... ;)

[brynmr]

Hmmmmm... did I confuse you or is it me that's confused?
Or maybe I missed the joke... again. :rolleyes: ;)

Your waitress accent sent me off into an earlier time period of hard-boiled detective novels and B&W movies from the 40s and 50s.

[Karen Cardinal]

Your waitress accent sent me off into an earlier time period of hard-boiled detective novels and B&W movies from the 40s and 50s.
Ahhhhhh... I get ya' now Jack. ;) :D

[gordoiye]

[QUOTE=Karen Cardinal]Oh you should finish "greekvillage" sometime. That is wonderful looking! The colors already "sing". :D

thanks! so many things, so little time... next time i'll actually rotate the pic before i post it :p

btw, why have you stopped doing grisaille? i find it time consuming and my patience isn't great.

gord

[Karen Cardinal]

Well a few years ago I started getting illustration assignments that were things like 20 illustrations in one week. :eek:
That's when I changed my pallet so I could combine 7 or 8 pencils to get any color I wanted. I also didn't have time for a grisaille layer and had to simply get my values in another way.

I don't take those killer assignments hardly at all anymore, but I still use the pallet I came up with and I still work dark to light to get my darkest values in early.

I don't know if it's right, but it works for me. ;)

So what have you decided on for your grisaille?

[gordoiye]

well, i decided not to do a strictly complementary grisaille, instead i'm using sepia for the wood, warm grey 50% for the shadows and caledon green for the brickwork - i'll post a pic when it progresses a little more...

btw, the pastel paper looks pretty dope!

gord.

[piper2]

OK, I want to jump in here because this is THE thing that really bugs me about art books. Many authors tell you which color to use for the grisaille BUT fail to tell you why. So far, I have seen black, sepia, grape, complementary, graphite, indigo blue, and the list goes on and on and on and still I do not get it. the only that makes sense is the complementary.

AND when do you know which one to use? Someone enlighten me.

Jay, it's quite simple. The purpose of a grisaille is to make you appreciate things like mowing the lawn, stacking folding chairs, and waiting for your significant other to come out of a department store. It builds patience in tedious useless things.

Plus it lets you see what your subject would look like if they were drowning in Welch's grape juice.

[brynmr]

Oh I don't know Maggie. Grisaille is a lot more fun than a root canal. :D

[piper2]

Oh I don't know Maggie. Grisaille is a lot more fun than a root canal. :D

That's true. Quite true. Perhaps better than even just a tooth cleaning. But is that reason enough to do one?

[JayD]

So in the words of what Leonardo da Vinci might have said "just eyeball it!"

Karen I will try what you suggested. :)

[paintedhorses]

Wow, Karen, good advice!

I just ate, so nothing for me right now, thanks :p

I think of grisaille as a tool to set the values before committing to full color, and still find complementary grisaille hard to think through :( , but I know it produces a wonderful effect.

Jeri

[pinkrybns]

True grisaille underpainting or complementary tonal underpainting is just ONE way of working.

Some like it some don't, some find it tedious others don't.

No one says anyone has to do it. It is not written in stone anywhere that anyone has to work that way.

It does however, produce some marvelous effects & depth in either a CP piece or an oil painting.

Jokes notwithstanding, I think the belittling of the use of this technique by others is not useful to anyone's learning/growth.

gordoiye - you find what works best for you and enjoy it! Enjoy the process whatever you choose to do and benifit from the experience. That's the best for your own progress with your own work. :)

~Judy

[BKWYRM]

as a tool to set the values before committing to full color
Nicely summarized!

Gord, I've only tried this technique a couple of times, so I'm not able to provide any expertise. It made my brain really hurt! :wink2: I was thinking about why it creates the effect it does, and finally figured it out. In the color threads, I've been playing with "re-creating" some of the darker pencils that I use all the time, like Indigo Blue and Tuscan Red. So a complementary or grisaille cp underpainting would really be a way of separating out the darker layers--kind of like letting the paint molecules "settle" first--then putting the lighter colors on top instead of scattered throughout. If I picture my painting in three dimensions and turn it so it's like phyllo dough, I can see where the grisaille layers would be the bottom crust. So I can see how this would be a very interesting and useful (but yes, difficult!) technique. However, I believe we all agree that establishing values is possibly one of the most important steps to a workable piece, and that's what the underpainting does. Then you can put the "frosting" on with the local color to get spectacular depth.

JayD, I think that it probably doesn't really matter which hue of underpainting you use to begin with. Why do I say that? Because to dull the colors, you need to mix all three primaries together, so you're going to put subsequent layers on top of other hues to get the dulled colors. Plus the colored ground affects the mix. The art books probably don't say because it's a choice based on the color of the ground, the color scheme of the painting, and the personal color palette of the artist. And based on the different types of underpainting, it seems as though you can't go badly wrong with any of them...

Hmmm....all these food metaphors...what does that say about us...?

Gord, this will be very interesting to watch progress. I'm fascinated at how your colored ground is going to affect your color choices. Did you mention what brand of pencils you're using...?

[Katherine T]

i'm currently mapping out the drawing, and I'm using Mi Teintes pastel paper 12"x16" (an orangey/tan colour)

I'm fascinated at how your colored ground is going to affect your color choices. Did you mention what brand of pencils you're using...?

Personally, I don't really use grisaille at all - although I do watch my values all the way through a painting and I do use complementary colours the other way round to get darks.

But I do use coloured grounds. And I quite often choose a ground where the optical mixing of the ground colour and the local colour is going to make for 'a vibration'. It's not that different from the way that black grounds make certain colours 'sing'. And sometimes I use a complementary colour as a ground - although I do tend to find it depends on the subject matter.

What I don't understand is why one would use a coloured ground if it was going to be completely covered by an underpainting. Gord - can you help out here as to your rationale for why you chose to do a grisaille on a coloured ground and why this colour?

Katherine

[Karen Cardinal]

Whew... I guess we need to dare everyone to create sheets of grisaille experiments. ;)

Kathy, I think you may be surprised to see that it does matter what color(s) you use for your grisaille layer because each one will give you a different look.

Katherine, even if the colored ground gets completely covered (which it really doesn't get) the color of the paper matters. Remember colored pencils are semi-translucent. Every layer of color (including the paper's color) will change the look.

Maggie, even though I don't do grisailles anymore I definately believe they are great techniques to use not only to help establish values in your work, but also to create different looks that you might not get otherwise.

JayD, I am tickled that you are willing to try the grisaille experiment! Start a new thread to show us what you came up with when you get it done. :D

Gord, I really like the colors you are planning for your grisaille. Sounds like you have a good handle on it! :D I can't wait to see the update!
btw how do you like the Mi-Tientes paper? I have a particular fondness for it but I know many artists who don't like it at all. What do you think of it?

Everyone have fun... try experimenting with different grisailles and different colors of paper. Maybe JayD will start a new thread so we can all see what kind of effects you can really get out of this wonderful technique. :D

[BKWYRM]

I'm intrigued by the differences, and would participate in a group thread. But it needs to be a SIMPLE object, so I can concentrate on the pencil choices.

Gord, I'm also curious about how you feel about the color palette you'll be using on the flowers versus the ones for the bricks.

[piper2]

I didn't mean for everyone to take me that seriously! :eek: In truth, I agree that grisailles can be a very, very effective way of working. Arlene in particular used them in fantastic ways. I myself confess to using them, though for some reason I always seem to get overly attached to my work in the grisaille stage and not want to change it. I only made my comment because many CP books that I've seen seem to tout a grisaille as the only proper way to work, and that's just not true.

[gordoiye]

BKWYRM: i'm sorta treating the bricks and flowers like 2 seperate paintings, tho i'm still looking to find a common element to bring them together...

Karen: so far i'm enjoying the mi teintes paper... i've done a little pastel work in the past and it reminds me of that - the paper gives the pencils a real pastel look so far.... thx for the encouragement btw.

Katherine: i chose a paper colour that's pretty close to the brick in the photo, therefore i'm hoping to let a little show through here and there... we'll see how it goes.

pinkrybns: thx for the kind words - i've really become fascinated in this technique for some reason, and i have yet to find it in any of the cp books i've read.

... cut for time right now, have a 2 yr old son (nuff said) - promise to post the first result this weekend.

cheers,
Gord

[JayD]

Gord, my two year old is now 18 and let me assure you--the fun never stops.

This has been a really good thread. There seems to be an aknowlegement that cp offers many, many roads to travel. That makes me feel much better.

[BKWYRM]

have a 2 yr old son (nuff said)
Oh, yeah! Okay, we'll be more patient then....

cp offers many, many roads to travel.
Absolutely, JayD! We just want lots of travel notes and postcards from the journey! :wink2: :D

i'm still looking to find a common element to bring them together...

Oh, okay, 'cause their colors are kinda "clashy" IRL. But I'm confident you'll meld them together.

This will be interesting to watch. Good luck carving out some "me" time for yourself. :wave:

[gordoiye]

ok here's the first photo... i'm thinking of titling it "Tedious Blossoms" - does that sound ok?

I snuck a dark grey in there to highlight the shadows a little more (slaps hand)... oh btw i'm using prismacolours (old-school berol ones and some new ones)

perspective on this is driving me to migraines - i think i'll go have a glass of wine now... c&c welcome!!


Gord

[gordoiye]

ps, the green really came out looking like cloud blue over the orange paper didn't it... weird.

also, the grisaille is still unfinished - i'm still roadmapping and, well, took a few wrong turns :D

gord

[Katherine T]

Gord

Describe for me, if you will what you really like about this. What made you want to do it?

The reason I'm asking is that I have a feeling you might just possibly be doing the wrong picture - and, if that's the case, sorting that out at this stage would save a lot of potential irritation later.

Katherine

[Karen Cardinal]

ps, the green really came out looking like cloud blue over the orange paper didn't it... weird.

also, the grisaille is still unfinished - i'm still roadmapping and, well, took a few wrong turns :D

gord
LOL! Yea you should see what a sepia underpainting looks like on green paper. ;)
Your underpainting looks great so far! Remember you're just getting your values in with this... don't think about the colors yet, just get all those tones from white to black in.

btw I like the title "Tedious Blossoms"... might be appropriate by the time you're done. ;) Enjoy that wine! :D

[JayD]

By the way, everybody--speaking of Grisaille--I just purchased a book called

"How to Paint Like the Masters"--the author duplicates the works of artists like Durer, Rembrant, and Titian (there are others) --a very interesting read. The illustrations are beautiful.

I like the title of the photo. The perspective looks very interesting. Did you have to adjust the drawing for any distortions caused by the camera lens?

[BKWYRM]

Gord, we're a curious bunch. Hope that's okay!

Now that we've discussed underpainting to death, I, too, am wondering what drew you to this picture. Love the title! Ha, ha, ha! So Freudian. The architectural elements behind the flowers are so strong, it makes me wonder about the flowers. Just curious, that's all. No offense intended. The orange paper is definitely providing a cohesive element to the colors from the get go. But I'm more interested in the architecture than the plant. Is that weird or what? What's your focal point and what do you hope to convey to the viewer? 'Cause right now, I'm simply in love with the architecture and want that durned plant to get out of the way! You did a gorgeous job on the underpainting. What are your observations on the process?

JayD, we have a Book Review thread going. Would "How to Paint Like The Masters" be a good addition to the thread?

[JayD]

Sure, I will do it as soon as I finish the book. We have a class in 101 called book reports where all of the students were required to read a book and then report on it and do a demo if they like--I am a huge supporter of book threads.

[BKWYRM]

Cool! Thank you, JayD!

[Katherine T]

Actually our book thread at the moment is oriented around colour and is associated with Kathy's Colour Collaboration Threads. Maybe we need another one for other books also helpful to CP artists?

[Edit] And I've just set one up - called 'The Book Club' - original eh?!

[gordoiye]

Well its a funny story... i was walking around my neighbourhood with my camera and was struck by this wonderful tree with all these huge blossoms on it... so I sneak up the pathway to take a few shots of said tree, when in my viewfinder I happen to notice how beautiful this house is, so not really thinking, I shifted the camera over to include the house... what struck me most were those little wooden brackets underneath the facia board; the owners painted them black grape :clap:

Kathy: i intended the focal point to be the blossoms, but i think it's actually the dark space to the left (the porch ceiling)... hmmmm.

I can't say for sure what drew me to this pic, but I do like strange/difficult perspectives as well as artwork that's beautiful but a little unsettling. Like a curry that's just a little TOO hot. Maybe that's what i was feeling here - i try not to analyse too much. ;)

Nolan's (2 yr old) in bed, time to get to work.

cheers,
gord

[catchlight]

I find the focal point is those fascia boards under the ceiling too, but then that may well change as you get more of the flowers done too, there's more of the building done so far. I like the weird angle as well as the softness of the flowers against the geometric shapes of the building. I think it'll be a very interesting peice and maybe not for the reasons you originally intended. I think the title works really well because of that too, you can read a lot of meanings into it which lets you decide what the painting's really about for you.

[Weezy]

JayD, I have had that book and used it for years. It is a wonderful book in that it tries to describe the ways in which past masters most likely worked as much as can be told from what they left behind both finished and unfinished. In some places the author really has to guess what actually went down and in what order, but it is a really good book. If you give it a try, your work will change a lot. I know mine did and continues to a lot because of what I read in that book and when I re-think a problem further down the road.

The exercises do work best in oil, but there is sound physics for how the colors work together. Especially with the layering. They especially used the fact that oil can be a transparent medium. Sound familiar?

[gordoiye]

Yes Wendy, that was my initial opinion as well - the contrast between the straight architectural lines and colours with the flowing lines and soft colours of the blossoms...

JayD and Weezy: i'll have to order that book from the Library; if i can actually find time to read it though is another matter!

I've added some dark green to the porch ceiling and brickwork and i'm considering black grape as my next layer for the ceiling. Any advice on which layer to add to the brick??

cheers,
gord

[gordoiye]

hi all,

b4 i start the Big, Bold and Beautiful project, i thought i'd work away at the blossoms again - several layers here, most notably the deco peach over the brick column, henna/deco peach/french grey/dark green for the darker brick - a whole mish-mash for the facia and soffets... hints and comments are always appreciated!

cheers,
gord

[Weezy]

Gord this is looking mighty promising. I am curious about your support. I went back to the beginning of the thread and could not find one little thing about it. What are you using? Did I just totally miss the reference to it?

I love the way the bricks are going in. They are totally believeable and the under-eaves don't look bad either.. I would be completely discouraged at this stage. I admire your perseverance in the face of this monstrously involved work. Go get 'em Gord!

[gordoiye]

thanks weezy,
i'm still tinkering with the eaves et al; i think i have to add some more darks in there since they don't quite have the 3d look i was hoping for...

it's a 16x20 piece on mi teintes 98 lb pastel paper - i don't know the exact colour but it's sorta pumpkin orange... some of the lighter brickwork in the ref photo is pretty much the same colour..

i dunno if it follows all the rules of "art" exactly, but if anyone asks me, i'll tell them that it's an epic battle between man and nature ;)

cheers,
gord

[piper2]

This is looking quite good. I don't think you need those sissy flowers, by the way. The building itself is interesting enough!

[boobookat]

I like this A LOT. And while I agree with everyone that the architecture is stealing the show, when I imagine this piece done, I think the flowers, very strong but pale, with deep magenta bases and hot pink highlights, and maybe even heavy burnished coverage, will make a striking contrast that tells more of a story, or holds more interest, than the corner of a house by itsself. Its texture and contrast of hard lines and curves. I'd look at it longer with the flowers juxtaposed, myself. I'd think more.

What sort of editing do you plan to the building, around the corner behind the flowers? (iff'n you keep 'em, that is) I'd highly simplify the house, the eaves, hide them with a subterfuge of leaves, and make a strong sky. Or not. That didn't imagine, quite right just then- the strong sky. I dunno. I'll shut up now!

Marci

[Karen Cardinal]

I like this A LOT. And while I agree with everyone that the architecture is stealing the show, when I imagine this piece done, I think the flowers, very strong but pale, with deep magenta bases and hot pink highlights, and maybe even heavy burnished coverage, will make a striking contrast that tells more of a story, or holds more interest, than the corner of a house by itsself. Its texture and contrast of hard lines and curves. I'd look at it longer with the flowers juxtaposed, myself. I'd think more.

What sort of editing do you plan to the building, around the corner behind the flowers? (iff'n you keep 'em, that is) I'd highly simplify the house, the eaves, hide them with a subterfuge of leaves, and make a strong sky. Or not. That didn't imagine, quite right just then- the strong sky. I dunno. I'll shut up now!

Marci
Marci, I feel like you do... the soft rounded flowers next to the hard strait corner of the house is what makes the picture for me.
Love your idea! I guess my mind is a scary place too! ;)

I can't wait to see how this comes out! :D

[boobookat]

Marci, I feel like you do... the soft rounded flowers next to the hard strait corner of the house is what makes the picture for me.
Love your idea! I guess my mind is a scary place too!

LOL! Isn't that just the truth? None of my RL friends are artistic, so they think I think a little weird. Its nice to "be" here with others that may think weird like me.

Now, what I'm loving most about these WIP posts is to see the scope of possibility from one source. Wonder what gordoiye will finally settle on-
(getting all impatient to see!)

Marci

[gordoiye]

marci: i understood you perfectly... hmmmm wonder what that says about me :D

karen: i agree! hopefully i'll win a few more fans as this thing progresses

sorry maggie, the flowers stay!

gord

[BKWYRM]

Gord, I'm already a fan of this piece. I'm interested in how you deal with the flowers.

[wet]

Gord this is looking so good! I can't wait to see the flowers develope. :wave: wanda

[CAULFIELD]

This is the first time I looked at this. :) It is looking great! Love the sunlight on the bricks. :)

Nicole

[gordoiye]

thanks nicole, and congrats on graduating from "minion"
gord

[gordoiye]

stayed up late working some more - this is about 3 hours' work, tho you wouldn't think so by looking at it - boy this mi teintes paper likes to soak up the layers!!

gord

[BKWYRM]

Gord, the eaves are scrumptious. Now I can see the potential in the flowers because of the contrast with the eaves.

[Flame Lily]

Gord, this is amazing! Wow, looks like a lot of work - you all have so much patience :D I'm excited to see the flowers next, you left the best for last so you should enjoy it all the way to the end, sometimes I head straight for the most interesting bits and then get bored stiff with the rest and can't wait to finish up... LOL

[piper2]

I agree with you about the Mi Tientes desire for layers -- I don't think I've ever really run out of tooth on a sheet of it. I'm surprised that you're having such luck with this color of paper too -- I have a multi-color pad that I use for my smaller works, and I always avoid using this tone until last, because it tends to be so overpowering. I do love their greys and blues though.

[gordoiye]

... about 4 to 5 hours work - i'm just not happy with these bricks... gonna put this aside for a bit to concentrate on another project (the golden lab - see "wedding gift" thread).... all c&c appreciated!

cheers,
gord

[frida]

You have a wonderful touch with CP Gord!!! :clap: It's going to be fabulous when the contrast between the straight architectural details and the soft, sunlit petals of the magnolias starts to happen...

Excellent work!

[piper2]

Why aren't you happy with the bricks? To me, it seems the only problem is that they are a wee bit too magenta or pink or something.

[gordoiye]

they're too pink-ish - you're right. but they're as close to the ref photo as i've come so far and i'm afraid that i'll overwork the area... gonna wait till i get the blossoms in b4 i go back to it... thanks for the comments.

gord

[AuntBe1]

I'm really enjoying this thread. What a learning experience! This looks wonderful. It amazes me to watch a CP WIP. From nothing emerges a beautiful painting and even though I'm watching it step by step, I can hardly figure out how you've gotten the beautiful colors that you've ended up with. I'm amazed at the growth of the painting at each posting. I can't wait for the next update!!!!
Belinda

[CAULFIELD]

they're too pink-ish - you're right. but they're as close to the ref photo as i've come so far and i'm afraid that i'll overwork the area... gonna wait till i get the blossoms in b4 i go back to it... thanks for the comments.

gord

Good idea. :) Putting the flowers in will make them look different, and before you run out of tooth with the paper - it is a good idea to put the flowers in. It might look perfect with the flowers in or need just a cool wash put over them.

Nicole

[wet]

I would be thrilled if I had painted these bricks. This is really coming along great! Can't wait to see how you handle the flowers. :wave: wanda

[JayD]

Gord, this is really thrilling to watch!

[Weezy]

Gord, I'd really like to see a light terra cotta wash over those bricks. Bricks are made from earth. These look like they are made from the flowers themselves, they are so pink. The flowers need to go in also. You will not get a really good 'read' for the color until they are in to act as the contrast against the brick.

Otherwise, how on earth can you even contemplate giving this one up? Its wonderful. Its definitely a masterwork. So no more whining! Get with it guy! On to the soft frilly pink flowers like any self-respecting he-man would! :wink2: :wave: :D

[gordoiye]

i shall retitle this one: "Bricks... Blossoms... Migraines"

here's the latest updates - sorry i didn't take more wip photos, but i got drunk and left my digital cam at a friends house... haha (nothing weird happened, promise!)

comments, criticisms, tomato-throwing welcome

gord

[lynn1]

This is very very nice Gord.

I really really like it. :clap: :clap: :clap:

[wet]

No tomato throwing here! I just feel as if I am lying in the grass looking up at these beautiful blooms. I just LOVE the way you handled the shadows and sunlight. This is wonderful Gord!!! :clap: :clap: wanda
PS: You should enter it into a contest or show.

[brynmr]

I didn't mean for everyone to take me that seriously! :eek: In truth, I agree that grisailles can be a very, very effective way of working.

Me too! Sorry Judy, just havin' a bit of fun. I use grisaille almost exclusively now though my approach is simpler than most. I'm having some success with using browns at the moment. I'll probably use light umber for my underdrawing on the portrait of Abby.

[brynmr]

Gord, looks great. Flowers are really cool. Not crazy about the grain/pattern in your paper though. Is that matt board?

[frida]

I know (from experience) that migraines are horrible, but I honestly wouldn't mind one so much if this was the result!!! :clap:

What are you unhappy about?

I believe you have used Canson MT, and I can see the pattern in the close-up. Funny thing...! Many people have shown it, but the one I get at Curry's doesn't have that pattern, even when using it on the rough side. But I didn't have good results with it taking much pigment. Your work is inspiring me to try it once more.

Go on! It's wonderful!

[gordoiye]

thanks everybody, i only meant migraines from the amount of concentration it's taking to complete this thing...

tommy, i'm on-the-fence with the graininess myself, tho i'm a big fan of pastel work so i guess i lean more to the positive side... i'm not too concerned on getting colour into every valley; i think if i concentrate enough on achieving some good detail in the flowers and bricks, i can plead artistic licence on the rest....

frida, do you buy the single sheets or the pads? this is indeed canson mt but i bought it in the multi-colour 16x20" pads (@ currys btw)

cheers,
gord

[frida]

That may be the difference, Gord. I never bought them in a pad, but a few sheets of the colours I liked, and tested my pencils on all. Later I bought more of the ones which seemed more versatile.

So... What are you unhappy about? :) Putting that in words may show you the way and help us to help you!

[piper2]

Gord, I haven't thought about your title of this thread for awhile, and looking back on it now I realize that you were totally blowing smoke out of some place where the sun don't shine. As if you really needed our help!

This looks wonderful, as you already know. My only complaint with it is one that I find kind of difficult to vocalize. It looks too . . . perfect. Gosh, this is more difficult to word than I thought. The bricks are all even, and the shadows perfectly crisp, and the boards on the eaves are all evenly spaced and colored -- the end result is just a little stylized or cartoony. Nice if that's what you're going for, but if you want realism, I think it needs some sort of imperfection. Or variation. Or, gee, I don't know how to say it. Perhaps someone else will notice and be able to say better than me.

[BKWYRM]

Gord, after you finished the bricks, I thought you should bag the blossoms. But now, I can see that their delicate loveliness is the perfect counterpoint to the manufactured rigidity of the bricks. Yay! :clap:

[gordoiye]

thanks all,
i know what you mean, maggie - the bricks look a little too cartoony for my liking - i'm not trying to blow smoke from anywhere (remember, it was the underpainting i was struggling with *wink*) - i think i've been doing this for far too long now, that i've lost track of my, um perspective i guess.

for what it's worth kathy, i would gladly bag the bricks (figuratively speaking) and just run with the foofy blossoms - oh well, rounding the home stretch now.. just wanna get er done.

cheers,
gord

ps. the blossoms on the real tree are long gone

[BKWYRM]

You go, Gord! "Get Er Done!"

[piper2]

Hmm, a guy who is obsessed with foofy blossoms . . . this isn't looking good for your manhood, Gord.

[brynmr]

You go, Gord! "Get Er Done!"

I agree, get it done. It looks great!

[frida]

I agree, get it done. It looks great!
I agree. If and when, as you work more, your style will loosen up, it's in the future. I love it...! Time to finish it.

[gordoiye]

Hmm, a guy who is obsessed with foofy blossoms . . . this isn't looking good for your manhood, Gord.

Freud would have much to say about that, Maggie!

g.

[gordoiye]

Ok it's DONE!!! man, what's the world record for endurance on a single piece? at least i learned tons, in fact i'm looking at the bits that i started with and can see where i can clean them up more - but i'm tired of this one and i'm sure it's tired of me and my grubby hands....

cheers,
gord

[wet]

Still beautiful! There is a house in a small town I used to live in and this reminds me of it. Same brick columns same color. Just a beautiful well maintained house. We would have bought it but unfortunatelly it was is a bad local. :( Love this. :wave: wanda

[Flame Lily]

It's wonderful :clap: The flowers are lovely... hadn't seen them till now :clap:

[piper2]

Gord, I would love to be able to give some really helpful comment that forced you to pick your pencils back up again and suffer greatly while fixing some problem . . . but there isn't any. This is great, and I would've never thought so from seeing the ref. photo. You ever get tired of being digustingly good?

[Weezy]

Now, this is good. Really good. Gord, you need to show this. I think its an award winner for sure. At least it would be, if I were jurying. Lovely work.

[lynn1]

This turned out great, Gord. You were right..it was a good ref photo. :D :clap: :clap: :clap:

[trudette]

Hi, gord ,
the result is stunning !
I can learn a lot looking at this wip. thanks.
:wave: trudette

[BKWYRM]

Gord, I missed you finishing the flowers. You did great--foofy blossoms and all! I agree with Weezy that you need to frame it and exhibit it. :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Rosa Weitzel]

I think its so good that you should enter it in the CPSA show.. reall, really well done. Great color, pristine pencil work.

Rosa

[gordoiye]

wow, thank-you so much you guys! i don't have the confidence to enter a show like that at this point, i'm having so much fun being turned down by the local piddly ones (oops was that out loud?).. thanks for the ego boost tho, all of you really do inspire to create!!!

cheers,
gord

[Katherine T]

Gord - this is really really lovely - you do good work (Maggie - I agree with smoke remark! ;) ) What I like best - which I couldn't see the potential for in the original photo - is the way you;ve tied the blooms into the brick pillar through the use of pinky bricks - it gives the whole thing a nice unity.

What I'm amazed about is that you paint right up to the edge of your paper - where's your framing margin?

But seriously nice! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[gordoiye]

What I'm amazed about is that you paint right up to the edge of your paper - where's your framing margin?

thanks katherine, don't be too amazed by it - it was just a rookie goof on my part - i really haven't framed too much of my stuff and i forgot to leave more room - kinda like using the wrong side of the paper :eek:

cheers,
gord (not blowing smoke!!! :mad: )

[Katherine T]

Gord - dead quick trick - line your ruler up with one the straight edges of the page and then use the width of your ruler to draw the first line of the picture 'frame' when setting the painting up. Gives a decent margin.

[BKWYRM]

Gord, you never know what the local shows are really "about". Lots of times there's an agenda....or the judges have a certain slant. So don't feel bad about that. This piece stands on its own, and it will stand the test of time. So frame it (archival) and hand it up with pride!

[frida]

Very well done, Gord! :clap: Beautiful piece of work...

[boobookat]

Ok, Gord-

Smashing finale- its gorgeous. I am impressed with how you handled the bits behind the blooms. NOW I want to see a better, bigger, closer photo of it. Or I'll cry.

(After all, this thread and looking for the finished product was the first thing I did when my laptop came back from its tune-up!)

Marci

[brynmr]

Holy animal crackers! :eek: This is cool stuff Gord. I'm really loving it. I gotta go review this thread cause I wanna know how you did this. :clap:

[BKWYRM]

Gord, this might be a really odd thought, but I was wondering if your local chamber of commerce might want to use this on their brochure....

[gordoiye]

that's a good suggestion, kathy... i hadn't thought of that.

the original intention of the picture was to enter it in a juried art show on local industrial landscapes - i didn't have much time and bowed out a week b4 the deadline, thinking that i didn't want to rush this just to get it in in time- so i entered the "stairwell" painting instead (which was rejected)....

i have plans to make digital prints of my current painting (see 'boating in kincardine thread') and going about to sailboat dealers and the local sailing club to see if i can drum up business.... i'll have to hit the "art biz" forum b4 i tackle that one tho'!

cheers,
gord

[BKWYRM]

Somehow, I could see this as an intro to your town, or a realtors' brochure. No matter what you do with it--it's lovely! The juxtaposition of hard architectural details with soft florals creates a lovely dynamic. Thanks for sharing with us!

[catchlight]

Wow, I'm gobsmacked (yay I've gotten to use that word a couple of times now!). I hadn't checked this in aaaaages because last I read you were about ready to give up! I'm SO pleased you didn't! This is fantastic and far far better than it seemed it'd be going by the reference shot. Wow Gord, it's seriously seriously awesome, you have definitely got to enter this in some show somewhere.

[Glenspey]

Gord, this is wonderful, it is far, far better than the reference and really does need to be entered somewhere.

Gayle

[evansd]

Gord,
all i can say is QUALITY!!! with a capital Q, this would win any competition if you could enter it somewhere,love the reflections on the brickwork,infact i love it all.

Dave.