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Yokovich
04-18-2005, 12:28 AM
Hello everyone! I am Celeste! I am pleased to be doing a demonstration/tutorial about shadows in the Portraiture classroom. Let me apologize right off for the "model"---it's me! I had to use myself to illustrate some key things that I want to talk about for the first shadow lesson. I am the only available model I have around here and I took all these photos of myself today with my Sony Mavica. None of them have been adjusted color-wise with image software. I am NOT happy with any of them but OH WELL, it is in the interest of our ongoing pursuit of better portraits that I provide them, so I will forgo my vanity for now.
I plan to make my tutorial/demonstration a three part process. I encourage you to let me know what you think as we proceed. Shadows in Flesh is a huge subject so let's not waste any time!

Portrait artists must always determine FIRST the SOURCE of the light onto our subject. It is crucial! Not only must we consider what is the SOURCE of the light is but we must determine the TEMPERATURE of the source light too. One thing that shadow is NOT--it is NOT just a darker version of the local or base color.

Come along with me into some changing light conditions. Remember, our FIRST order of business is always to identify where our light is coming from. Our 2nd important task is to decide whether the source light is WARM or COOL. Let's start here in my studio. Here is the light source, a 60 watt light bulb.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Apr-2005/33531-studiolightsource.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Apr-2005/33531-studiolight.jpg
My hair is actually a mousy dark blonde & gray, but here under this light (in the photo above) my hair looks reddish and WARM. Later we will talk about what a warm light does to shadows, but for right now, in lesson #1, let's just concentrate on determining the temperature of various light sources only.
Now lets go into my s.o.'s photography office.
Here the light source is an overhead flourescent light in a white walled office. Look how different my hair looks than the last place I was photographed (my basement studio).
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Apr-2005/33531-florescentlightme.jpgThe source of this light is bluer than our first photograph of the basement studio. We can safely state that this light source is COOL.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Apr-2005/33531-florescentlight.jpg

Now I've gone into the front yard and I am standing beneath a canopy of green leaves. Check the area right beneath my eye in this profile photo--look at the green from the leaves shining onto my face. Reflected light is another factor when it comes to sizing up source light and temperature.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Apr-2005/33531-treecanopy3.jpg
In this leafy situation the light source is sunshine but I am standing in a predominately shaded place. This is dappled light. The sky overhead is blazing blue and "whitening" my skin and hair--but this is WARM (don't be mislead by all the green shade, the light struck areas are warm).

When I step out into the full sunlight I still have green around me but it is at my back and the sun is my light source. What is the temperature?? WARM. Even though my hair is "accurate" color wise--look at the flesh and how red/yellow/orange it is.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Apr-2005/33531-treecanopy5.jpg

Back inside I am in my basement --this time in the laundry room. This is interesting because I am illuminated by our friend the sun but the light is filtered through a grimy window and my surroundings are whitish concrete--SO--the temperature is COOL
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Apr-2005/33531-laundrysidelight.jpg
Here is a side by side of a warm and a cool light source so you will be able to readily see the difference. Notice how the warm light is yellow/red/orange and the cool light is bluish.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Apr-2005/33531-sidebysidecoolwarm.jpg
Well, do you think you understand cool and warm temperature? I will give you two more photos and you can try to determine if they are cool or warm. Once you feel confident about assessing light source and temperature we will go on to talk about what that means for the SHADOWS in those conditions.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Apr-2005/33531-basement.jpg...cool or warm??
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Apr-2005/33531-candle.jpg cool or warm?
I'll give you a clue about what is coming up next-----creating convincing shadows using complementary color! See you tomorrow!

rca
04-18-2005, 08:08 AM
Very important information going on this thread!

Thanks for taking the time to show us this!

Rui. :)

Anita Murphy
04-18-2005, 08:18 AM
Hanging on your every word as I have been struggling with shadows on my first portrait. Lovely model - no need to apologise! :D

eileenclaire
04-18-2005, 09:54 AM
WOW! :clap: :clap:

I can see I am going to learn a LOT from this thread!!! Terrific, can't wait to see the rest!

imperess
04-18-2005, 09:59 AM
hi,

great tutorial!!!

this is wonderful information! I am sure it will help many. Thanks for taking the time to share your Knowledge with us. you make a great model. I will be standing by to read more.


~Carol .

artcrazy
04-18-2005, 02:04 PM
AWESOME Celestia! Pulling my hair out (which is currently lit by a warm light source :D ) waiting for tomorrow's installment!

artbabe21
04-18-2005, 03:00 PM
AWESOME Celestia!! This is helping me already! I always mistook shadow for a darker version of the local color!! eek! :eek: :crying: sob....
THANK YOU!! :wink2:

We are SO FORTUNATE to have such talented artists to do these demos, sharing their time & talent!! Hurrah!! :wave:

terence p
04-18-2005, 04:11 PM
very good presentation. Things I think I knew but this really clarifies the effect of lighting. thanks.

elizabeth ours
04-18-2005, 07:49 PM
Celestia,

Awesome presentation. I can't wait to see what the complement of the local color is as relates to fleshtones.

Thanks,

liz :cat:

Yokovich
04-19-2005, 01:50 AM
Yesterday we discussed the difference between cool light and warm light. You could see the difference between how I looked standing in the laundry room (cool) and how I looked standing beneath the light bulb (warm). It is not always easy to identify warm and cool light without something to make a comparison against! For that reason you might consider taking some photos of your own to practice evaluating just what the heck IS warm or cool.
One of the most challenging things to understand about sunlight is that it will not always result in a "warm" situation! Remember my laundry room photo?--that was COOL light from the sun. Cool light from the sun happens on overcast days or when there is alot of BLUE around (like the sky or the ocean or a film of dirt on a window!) Warm light from the sun is clearly warm if your subject is standing on tan beach sand, seated on a tan patio or laying in the center of a daisy field. In evaluating warm and cool start by identifying the source and then think about the surroundings. The effect of the surroundings might change your "automatic answer". It is fun to look at established art and think about termperature. Edward Hopper was famous for his cool light. Even when he bathed his subjects in sunlight he favored COOL sunlight. Check how "pasty blue" this caucasian man's skin is, especially when you compare it to the warm painting on the left. In making temperature evaluation look for BLUENESS for cool & orange/red/yellowness for warm.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Apr-2005/33531-wcomparison.jpg
(By the way I hope to squeeze some information in about OTHER skin colors besides caucasian--bear with me).

As artists we need to state our case clearly--We need shadow shapes to help define the subject.

Do you know all your complements? It is important to know them because you use complements when "neutralizing" shadows. Complements are colors directly across from each other on the color wheel. The complements we are most familar with are: Blue/Orange, Yellow/Violet and Red/Green.

Here are my photos from yesterday. On the left I am illuminated by a YELLOW-ish candle. On the right I am illuminated by the sunlight that is affected by surrounded BLUE-NESS.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Apr-2005/33531-tutorialsidephotoreminder.jpg
First off we'll want to do a three value sketch to solidify where light is the brightest and where shadow is the darkest. Even if you feel confident the 3 value sketch will help you remember and define the most important parts of your painting. I am going to paint both the warm and the cool versions of "me".
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Apr-2005/33531-tutorialvaluesketch.jpg
I mix up a big batch of "base" or local color. I am caucasian so I use something like cadmium red and lemon yellow and Titanium white with a little pthalo green (all that is my base--like "foundation") TO THE BASE I add the light source color-- Here is a photo of my base color and I am adding Ultramarine blue to it for the cool portrait.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Apr-2005/33531-tutorialpaintglob.jpg I would have had another photo just like this with the base color and yellow for the warm portrait...but I forgot to take the photo so try to imagine it.
Here is my masonite board that I have toned lightly with sap green. I toned it green because it is the complement of red and red is a major part of flesh color. (Those master guys used alot of green "under" flesh colors--- they knew what they were doing!)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Apr-2005/33531-tutorialgreenboard.jpg I have sketched in the most major shadow shapes and I used fixative to keep the charcoal fixed!
So here it is a few hours later (whew!) and I have painted "me"--I used the base color I mixed up for my flesh but I added alot of yellow to the same base flesh color for the portrait on the left. I added alot of blue to the base color for the portrait on the right. For the shadows on each I relied on my sketch to show me where the darkest darks where and I followed the values to block in where shadows occur. Here are the results (so far)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Apr-2005/33531-tutorialpaintingsofme.jpg
I remembered some key RULES of shadows while I painted--the rules are:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Apr-2005/33531-tutorialrecap.jpg
Next session we will CHECK the shadows I did today. We need to assess if the shadows are doing their job. In both portraits I used complement colors to gray down and mute the shadows but the shadows are going to be improved upon in our next step! You will be pleased to know that we are going to work on an image from the image gallery too. Here is a sneak preview! See you tomorrow---are you thinking about shadows??
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Apr-2005/33531-tutorialupcoming.jpg

dcorc
04-19-2005, 07:12 AM
Great presentation :clap: :clap: :clap:

Very clear, and lots of useful info.

Dave :wave:

Yokovich
04-19-2005, 12:51 PM
Thanks Gary Oldman, er, I mean dcorc dave for dropping by my shadows tutorial--somehow a big (important!) section of the 2nd leg of my tutorial "disappeared"--lol so I am asking a moderator if I can go back and fix it in proper sequence. stay tuned!
Thanks again for cheering me on--I appreciate it! c

bjcpaints
04-19-2005, 05:09 PM
Celestia, This a wonderful tutorial and you have clearly put a ton of work into it! I am so impressed and its making me think maybe this is not a bad place for me to begin learning about painting people! I am going to try to keep checking in (inbetween painting animals LOL).
Barbara

maria_khurram
04-19-2005, 08:28 PM
WOW great tutorial. I have learned more from that one. :clap: :clap: :clap:

rosebard
04-19-2005, 08:39 PM
Thanks!! :clap: Thanks!! :clap: Thanks!! :clap:
A million of thanks!! :clap: .....

Agree with Present. That is just where I have being struggling the most. Someone pointed that out about month ago on my first portrait. And since then I have beeing loosing the all thing all together. All because of this warm cool lightning thing, and how it workes with color. The concept I understood. Just to apply the colors in practice was so much the bad part. Now I know things are going to get in place and once more this portrait classroom is going to be a big help.

So nice to see your face Celestia. I always keep wondering how people look like when I see the avatars, that are not actually photos of oneself. And really nice examples of how lights affect the surface when it hits it. How it feels and change colors appearance. Going to read the lesson and come back for some more food.

So far so great(so good is not enough). Thanks Celestia for the tutorial and Eillen for keeping up this great Class.

:wave: :D :D

boopie
04-20-2005, 02:14 AM
This is great, Thank you for your hard work. This helps me a great deal :clap: :clap: :clap:

Striver
04-20-2005, 08:13 AM
WOW
So original and absolutely impressive. Compulsive reading and crystal clear. Congratulations on a superb presentation. I will make a plate of sanies and a pot of coffee to come back and take more time to read it in detail.
Ta
Les

red_ironoxide
04-20-2005, 11:55 AM
This is a great tutorial!!!
I can't wait for more!

NoobieRuby
04-20-2005, 03:23 PM
This was very helpful but I'm still having some trouble. Sorry, I'm slow.
I scanned 2 photos from a rolling stone magazine. I think theyre both cool but i need some help..can someone tell me if theyre warm or cool?

Yokovich
04-20-2005, 03:35 PM
This was very helpful but I'm still having some trouble. Sorry, I'm slow.
I scanned 2 photos from a rolling stone magazine. I think theyre both cool but i need some help..can someone tell me if theyre warm or cool?
hi noobie--oh, i am sure you are not "slow"--temperature identity takes some experience--hang in there you'll get it and it is really important for developing a convincing portrait..worth all the time it takes to learn. :)
sorry, for some reason i can't see your images--could you save them as jpg and upload again? Welcome to the portrait forum--!

Rosic
04-20-2005, 03:44 PM
Celestia... This is SUPERB! :clap: Thank you!
Bernie

NoobieRuby
04-20-2005, 04:08 PM
hope this is better.. thanks for your help. :)

Yokovich
04-20-2005, 06:35 PM
hope this is better.. thanks for your help. :)
Noobie, the portrait on the left is predominately COOL. It is probably a black and white photograph printed as a duotone or a tri-tone with the introduction of some other colors. I I see a blue and purple cast in the photo and a lemon-y yellow pattern across the photo (is that from scanning or an art effect in the portrait?) To complicate matters just a little there might be one warm reddish color in the mix also--(and lets not forget the variable of all our different color monitors. This black and white photo might look like it has a warmish red on a someone else's monitor) BUT!--
On my monitor the photo on the left is predominately COOL. The photo on the right is warm because the subjects skin is orangey-reddish and his fur hat is also golden. When looking and deciding about temperature ask yourself what color influence you see MOST. :)

Rosic
04-20-2005, 08:03 PM
Celeste... I know you touched on color mixing... but could you share some of your favorite color recipes for a warm and cool shadow palette? No hurry... whenever you get the chance. Thanks in advance... Once again... EXCELLENT class!
Bern

NoobieRuby
04-20-2005, 08:34 PM
hehe the yellow in the first one was from scanning. :p
thanks very much!

Pars
04-20-2005, 08:36 PM
Celeste, this is a wonderful classroom. I'm tuned in and glued to my chair, but my mind is racing on applying some of these ideas asap.

Thank you so much!!!!!

Yokovich
04-20-2005, 09:11 PM
Celeste... I know you touched on color mixing... but could you share some of your favorite color recipes for a warm and cool shadow palette? No hurry... whenever you get the chance. Thanks in advance... Once again... EXCELLENT class!
Bern
Bern--yes! that is exactly what got inadvertedly dropped from the tutorial. I have a couple of revisions/additions that will edited soon. (thanks everyone for your patience). It is not that there is any misinformation in the thread in how it stands but there is a helpful chunk that will be inserted in the correct sequence with the mod's help in a day or so. Then we will be up to speed for the conclusion! I am really glad some folk have found what I have written about thus far as helpful, I've gotten some really nice pm's over it! thanks everyone--I will be back soon with more shadow talk!
:wave:

Squib
04-21-2005, 05:13 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap: A wonderful tutorial Celeste - I really needed this. Thanks so much. I'm waiting for the next installment !!

Discworldjunkie
04-22-2005, 02:52 PM
Could you explain why cool portraits have warm shadows and warm portraits have cold ones and how are you supposed to say 'this is a cool pictrue' yet there are warm shadows on it? Or have I got that backwards? :confused:

How would you know what color was cool or warm of your paint? Are there cool and warm blues? How would one be able to know? Is there any temperature scale thing like a color wheel?

:)

windrose
04-23-2005, 04:19 PM
From Windrose
This is a wonderful thread for learning how shadows affect paintings of people. Have been struggling with that very concept. As I am getting back into 'people' painting, this is a great help. Thank you.

Yokovich
04-23-2005, 08:57 PM
Could you explain why cool portraits have warm shadows and warm portraits have cold ones and how are you supposed to say 'this is a cool pictrue' yet there are warm shadows on it? Or have I got that backwards? :confused:

How would you know what color was cool or warm of your paint? Are there cool and warm blues? How would one be able to know? Is there any temperature scale thing like a color wheel?

:)
discworld, if you don't contrast warm temperature with cool temperature (or visas versa) you will have too much of the same temperature and the results won't be as convincing or believeable. As an analogy, If you are painting a landscape and your main object is a blue house casting a shadow you may be tempted to paint the shadow blue also---but wait! you must consider what color the shadow is being cast upon (say it is green grass). If conditions were warm sunlight the shadow cast onto the green grass might be green (cool) PLUS red (warm) with some blue involvement reflecting from the base color of the house.
It takes a little practice to understand the differences between temperatures WITHIN a color. orange-y red (think of a tomato) is considered warm and a blue-red, (think of the color "maroon") is considered cool.
We have a big color therory forum where you can learn lots about color!
I am working on the next leg of this demonstration and it will point out what I am getting at with complements more clearly. I need a bit of time because of "technical difficulties" (my camera ran out of battery!)--but stay tuned because I am pretty sure you will be able to see what I have explained pretty well in the next step.

rosebard
04-23-2005, 09:35 PM
Hi Celestia,

I did a sketch of you (both examples actually). just a study on small canvas.

On your example, a color you use is phtalo green. I dont have phtalo green, which green I can use to substitute? The blue you use ultramarine, what is the yellow for warm light? I am going to use the same palette just to put in practice the concept, and see how it works.

Thanks again for giving this class!! :clap: :wave:

Lynn Quinn
04-23-2005, 11:32 PM
Thanks for this tutorial. I mainly do landscapes but have been thinking about trying some watercolour portraits. Great job!
Lynn

azur
04-24-2005, 02:52 AM
This is very useful information and you are breaking it down where it is very easy to understand. Thanks so much for taking the time to do this. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Jan

Yokovich
04-24-2005, 09:16 PM
Hello again! I hope I haven't lost any of you! We left off where I was going to assess the shadows I did so far in both my warm "candlelit" portrait and my cool "basement window light" portrait.
It is important to squint down your eyes to determine values. Shut your eyes 1/2 way down to see if a value is very dark, mid ranged or light. Values are important to get right. All colors have a value intrinsic to them. Yellow is a very light value and ultramarine blue is a much darker value than yellow. When you work alot with color you start picking up on this without having to think alot about it. Value is so important that the color can be way off but if the value is correct the viewer will see it as reading "correctly".
I put my digital photos and my paintings into photoshop to check my values. They weren't too bad but I can see some areas that need repairs. It is really great to be able to do this and many imaging software companies provide this feature called "grayscale".
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Apr-2005/33531-comboBW.jpg
Even though some of the values are too bright in the left portrait I am going to leave these brighter areas for "artistic license" (to play up the candlelight). I need to make the light areas even lighter in the right portrait.
My first set of color portraits may seem passable but they will improve once we add complements to highten contrast.
Lets check out a color wheel and see if we can find similar colors in my portraits and then look directly across the color wheel to see just what is the complement.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Apr-2005/33531-acolorwheel.jpg
The lightest skin in the left portrait is warm and orange-y. The complement is a cool violet purple blue. The skin in the right portrait is pink-y blue. The complement across the color wheel is a greenish green!
In the portaits I have done so far I have established the temperature and used darker versions of the flesh tones to provide an approximation of correct shadow. Watch, however how things improve with a complement added.

Here is some liquin and color that I am going to use to glaze over the first phase of my portraits. I will use the purple on the left for my warm portrait and the green on the right for the cool portrait (because of what we found out when we consulted the color wheel).
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Apr-2005/33531-liquinpaint.jpg

No matter what your medium you will be able to enhance shadow with the addition of the complement of the light struck local/base colors. I elected to "glaze" the complement because it is easiest way to show you the drama of how complements work. I waited for the 1st phase to dry and then I scrubbed purple in the dominant shadow side. My shadows prior to adding the purple glaze (in the "underpainting" were created mostly by adding burnt umber to my "base foundation".
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Apr-2005/33531-addingpurple.jpg
Here I paint over the underpainting with only purple and then I wiped away areas and added purple and some umber into the deepest areas. Mostly I just used purple. Take a look at the side by side comparison of the warm portrait without contrasting complement and the warm portrait with the complement of purple. http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Apr-2005/33531-dsidebysidewarm.jpg
I was somewhat heavy handed with color in both my warm and cool portraits in order to show you how much the complement will enliven your effort. Naturally you can use a lighter touch and produce a "realistic" portrait. I tend to prefer strong color, but you may take a more subtle approach. The key is however to add a complement to your shadows or risk a portrait that is not convincing and does not have enough "oomph!" !

In the cool portrait I followed the same method as I did with the warm portrait except instead of purple I used green for the glaze. I wiped it all across most of the portrait (because that portrait is mostly shadow). I neglected to take a photo of this but it is just like the process above. I smeared green all over the portrait and then wiped it away in the lighter struck areas. I added darker greens to the eye area for more contrast. As if by magic, the green over alot of the pink-y blue skin tone that was in my underpainting resulted in a WARM shadow. http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Apr-2005/33531-esidebysidecool.jpg
As you can see the new portrait looks much more alive than the bluish-pink from phase one!

To prove the point that complementary color is important in shadows check phase one without complements top row and then phase two with the addition of complements bottom row below:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Apr-2005/33531-xOLDmerged.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Apr-2005/33531-xNEWmerged.jpg
Hmmm I see I lost some of the strong nose shadow on the left..how did that happen?? lol Well, we can fix it later. Meanwhile...thanks for staying with me! I have a couple more things to give you--some "flesh tone recipes" and one more portrait. I'll be back--!

Pars
04-24-2005, 09:45 PM
Celeste, this is exquisitely clear and truly a wonderful way of showing the complementary balance for cool and warm.

Now, I see how you've handled the oil, do you have a wee idea of how you'd handle it in watercolour--gracefully that is. :evil:

And, just for curiosity which colour wheel are you referencing? I like the gradation.

Thanks again, Celeste, you've got my attention, my appreciation and a mentor point for sure.

Yokovich
04-24-2005, 11:12 PM
Hi Celestia,

I did a sketch of you (both examples actually). just a study on small canvas.

On your example, a color you use is phtalo green. I dont have phtalo green, which green I can use to substitute? The blue you use ultramarine, what is the yellow for warm light? I am going to use the same palette just to put in practice the concept, and see how it works.

Thanks again for giving this class!! :clap: :wave:


I mixed up a batch of my "foundation" base color for "me", it was:

cadminum red, lemon yellow, titanium white and a tiny bit of Pthalo green (any green will do you're just practicing, right?)

for cool light to the base foundation mix above I added ultramarine blue and/or permanent rose

for warm shadow to the base foundation mix above I added burnt umber, aliz crimson and/or ultra blue *

for warm light to the base foundation mix above I added lemon (and sometimes permanent rose)

for cool shadow to the base foundation mix above : Pthalo green, cad red and lemon **

* I glazed with blue/purple for more contrast

** I glazed with Pthalo green for more contrast

Discworldjunkie
04-24-2005, 11:14 PM
Could this be made an article? I would like to print it but only the classroom stuff not the other posts. I could copy and paste stuff, but I thought it would be cool to have it all ready to print easily.

Thank You for the pictures. I want to reread the thread before I ask more questions but this is very good. I think I might actually be understanding something finally! YAY! :clap:

Still want to make a 'swatch' of the colors I have and label them cool or warm. Any way to tell? Like, is there such a thing as a cool yellow? A cool green? Or is it only cool or warm if you mix it with other colors?

Also, could you talk more about values? I have a really hard time with values!! Like, it is all right if I am seeing a b&w picture, but then if color...like I seen that tv show Jerry Yarnell's School Of Fine Art and I don't like his impressionistic style, but I watched it anyway and he talks about value, I don't know what colors to use...like he'll use a color that I don't think is darker or lighter and it works...not sure how to ask the question...is value just dark and light? What is hue? Sometimes I get my terms mixed up.

Thank You!
:D

Yokovich
04-24-2005, 11:20 PM
Celeste, this is exquisitely clear and truly a wonderful way of showing the complementary balance for cool and warm.

Now, I see how you've handled the oil, do you have a wee idea of how you'd handle it in watercolour--gracefully that is. :evil:

And, just for curiosity which colour wheel are you referencing? I like the gradation.

Thanks again, Celeste, you've got my attention, my appreciation and a mentor point for sure.
Pars--thanks for being here! Maybe I will through in a watercolor too because the principles are the same. "Graceful", does that mean not too tutti-fruitti color wise? lol
The color wheel is from a color manual--I will look it up and give you the authors name next post!

Yokovich
04-24-2005, 11:28 PM
Could this be made an article? I would like to print it but only the classroom stuff not the other posts. I could copy and paste stuff, but I thought it would be cool to have it all ready to print easily.

Thank You for the pictures. I want to reread the thread before I ask more questions but this is very good. I think I might actually be understanding something finally! YAY! :clap:

Still want to make a 'swatch' of the colors I have and label them cool or warm. Any way to tell? Like, is there such a thing as a cool yellow? A cool green? Or is it only cool or warm if you mix it with other colors?

Also, could you talk more about values? I have a really hard time with values!! Like, it is all right if I am seeing a b&w picture, but then if color...like I seen that tv show Jerry Yarnell's School Of Fine Art and I don't like his impressionistic style, but I watched it anyway and he talks about value, I don't know what colors to use...like he'll use a color that I don't think is darker or lighter and it works...not sure how to ask the question...is value just dark and light? What is hue? Sometimes I get my terms mixed up.

Thank You!
:D
discworld--yes all the colors have what is called "bias" they slant one way or the other on the color wheel--so you can have a blue red (a cool red) and an yellow red (a warm red), there is a cool yellow (it is generally referred to as lemon) and a warm yellow (such as cadmium yellow). BUT! for right now--this early in the game try to only remember the most basic color temperatures (like red/yellow/orange is warm and blue/violet/green is cool)--just for now...so you don't get too bogged down. If you have a digital camera and want to make your swatches and upload them we can help teach you what is predominately warm or cool. Just let us know! It is REALLY great that you want to do swatches. It will help you see values too.
Hue means color like blue, yellow or red. You can practice adding white to colors for tints and black to colors for shades to see many differences in value. Many artists paint monochromatically at first (in all one color) until their understanding of value is clear. It makes the transition into color a bit easier. For example you could do a portrait all in burnt umber and white. It is a great exercise for learning where to put the darkests darks and the lightest lights.

Pars
04-24-2005, 11:31 PM
Celeste, gracefully, how I word things sometimes. :cat: What I mean is with w/c you really can't just rub it off so we'd have to be more delicate, probably not the right word, either, to get those complements to work in a similar fashion.

Christopher Schink in "Color and Light" shows some good examples with objects, but not portraits. (Alex) Powers comes the closest to what I'd like to achieve (like to in big letters). However, he accomplishes his values and shadow more often with dark and light tones and chalk.

Thanks again, Celeste, really appreciating your work.

rosebard
04-25-2005, 01:25 AM
Thanks Celestia for answering my questions. I cant wait to learn more!!
:clap: :clap: :clap:

yesim
04-25-2005, 05:36 AM
Dear Celeste :) :) ,
Thank you very much. I was following the course from the beginning. It was very imparative. Only deep knowledge can be expressed in such simplicity. I will try what I learned from you right away.

Thanks again. :wave:
Yesim

http://www.yesimsengil.net.tr.tc

windrose
04-25-2005, 03:25 PM
Dear Celeste,
Am following this classroom with great interest. Question: a lot of the portraits that come from reference library seem to have light directly on the face whether taken inside or outside. How do we determine where to put the shadows in that situation? Have a portrait like that now that I would like to do.
Any help is much appreciated. Windrose :wave:

marshallgh
04-25-2005, 05:47 PM
How would you know what color was cool or warm of your paint? Are there cool and warm blues? How would one be able to know? Is there any temperature scale thing like a color wheel?

:)

This is from MacEvoy's handprint website. I printed it on photo quality paper and laminated it. I am always referring to it. I like it because it simultaneously looks at the pigments in terms of value and color temperature (i think...if i am interpreting it properly). toward red is warm, toward green is cool. i think i also read somewhere that shadow should be approximately 20-40% darker in value (but not sure!). :wave: :D

http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/vwheel.pdf

Terry

unstuckpainter
04-25-2005, 08:17 PM
I just wanted to chime in and say how much I like your instruction here and it's precisely what I am working on learning about now.

I am having particular trouble with shadows in my portraits and I am wondering if I could focus on something you said and get some clarification on what you mean.

You said "I use complimentary colors to tone down the shadows."
I always try to use compliments to help my shadows ever since I started painting with varying degrees of success. All my instructors and learning material emphasize this technique but for some reason I am not taking to heart what it really means.

When you say "tone down," do you mean you use it to shift the shadows temperature, or are you using it to actually change the tonal value of the shadow? In other words are you using the compliment to lighten or darken a shadow, or are you trying to keep the shadow the same tone, just trying to warm it or cool it?

I never understood this clearly and it would help me to understand if you could explain to me so I can FINALLY know what's going on :)

I stare at pictures with compliments mixed in and I start imagining all kinds of colors and shades that aren't really there because of the interesting plays between the colors. It's pretty but it confuses me to no end.

elizabeth ours
04-25-2005, 09:21 PM
Terry,

Thanks so much for the link. I'm sure it will be very helpful.

Liz :clap: :cat:

Discworldjunkie
04-27-2005, 02:59 AM
Thank You for the color wheel link on page 3.

And yes, I will share my swatch once I can get the scanner working. The power cord is bad and I have to wait hours to days before I can make a good scan.

I thought Lemon Yellow was warm because it makes me remember sunshine and sun is warm...sunflowers are warm right? :confused:

:)

marshallgh
04-27-2005, 12:18 PM
Thank You for the color wheel link on page 3.


I thought Lemon Yellow was warm because it makes me remember sunshine and sun is warm...sunflowers are warm right? :confused:

:)

Lemon Yellow is a warm color (when by itself). But it is best to think of warm vs cool as a relative term. In other words is one color warm or cool relative to another color?

For example lem yel is cool relative to cad yel. This is true because lem yel contains more green. You can see this on the color wheel ...lem yel is farther to the right (it is to the right of cad yel). It is also interesting to point out that (with respect to these two colors), lem yel is lighter in value than cad yel. In other words if you changed the color wheel to values of gray the "gray" for lem yel would be lighter than the "gray" for cad yel.

These concepts confused me all the time until I happened upon MacEvoys color/value wheel and then it all made sense.

I hope my simplified explanation helps.

Terry :wave:

Yokovich
04-27-2005, 02:14 PM
You said "I use complimentary colors to tone down the shadows."
I always try to use compliments to help my shadows ever since I started painting with varying degrees of success. All my instructors and learning material emphasize this technique but for some reason I am not taking to heart what it really means.

When you say "tone down," do you mean you use it to shift the shadows temperature, or are you using it to actually change the tonal value of the shadow? In other words are you using the compliment to lighten or darken a shadow, or are you trying to keep the shadow the same tone, just trying to warm it or cool it?
Hi unstuck! --I will answer this later with a diagram--because it IS confusing and we ALL want to be "unstuck" (lol) I am working on "disecting" one of my photos that will explain temperature and tonal value in another way that will hopefully clarify one notch further. "Visual aids" help so much in describing the "story" of effective shadows in portraits--be back later :)

georgiaokeefe
04-27-2005, 11:34 PM
WOW! :clap: :clap:

I can see I am going to learn a LOT from this thread!!! Terrific, can't wait to see the rest!
terrific lesson...i can't wait to read more...i'm new to wetcanvas and love everything i've discovered so far! (sharon)

yesim
04-28-2005, 05:29 AM
I tried to imitate the technique, tried to paint the cool toned Celeste. I could not manage the similar face but I think the colors are OK. I learned a lot about the colors during this study.

Now I will give a try to the complimentary colors -uh it is intimidating.

All C&C's are welcomed.

Here it comes; Cool Celeste :wink2:

rosebard
04-28-2005, 11:02 AM
Hi everybody,

Yessim glad you gave a try to it. I did also but ended up messing up the all thing. I was concentrate on the feature rather the color lesson. Got stucked there. So I am going to try again. Nice to see your version. :clap: :clap:

Cant wait to see the next lesson Celeste.
:clap: :clap: :D :wave:

windrose
04-28-2005, 03:25 PM
Hi Rose and Yesim,
I too am working on this lesson. Have been using a different picture and have spent all my time on trying to get the likeness before I started painting. The shadows in my picture are not as clear so I should have used picture in lesson. Also, perhaps should not worry so much about the likeness.
Yesim looks great to me. Rose, I too am starting over.
Windrose :)

Yokovich
04-28-2005, 09:28 PM
I tried to imitate the technique, tried to paint the cool toned Celeste. I could not manage the similar face but I think the colors are OK. I learned a lot about the colors during this study.

Now I will give a try to the complimentary colors -uh it is intimidating.

All C&C's are welcomed.

Here it comes; Cool Celeste :wink2: yesim! you did a wonderful job with this--! You definately captured the cool temperature...just excellent--! five stars!
I will be back this weekend with the next installment--thanks for your patience. Shadows=a big big subject! lol :)

yesim
04-29-2005, 05:41 AM
Thank you all for your comments. Today I will try a self portrait with same cool colors.
However I still don't have the courage for the green shadows for Celeste.

Squib
04-29-2005, 07:28 AM
:clap: :clap: :clap: Wonderful thread Celeste, and really good tuition here. I'm taking it all in, printing out most of it for my file. Thanks. :) :)

Grunge
04-29-2005, 04:37 PM
I am riveted; glued; and nailed to my chair. I have read, printed and subscribed. I am hungry for more.

artcrazy
04-30-2005, 12:18 PM
Hey Cel, just wanted to let you know that I too am glued to my chair!!!

I think you should give some serious thought to an art instruction book some time! You are VERY good!

thanks so much!

Rosic
04-30-2005, 12:37 PM
Shadows are tough... this has been a good class for me... :clap:

Anyone have any good Shadow Palette Recipes you could share?

I'm learning to stay away from black as much as possible...
Aliz Crimsom... Ultramarine Blue... and Sap Green seem to be my favs of late...

Thanks in advance,
Bernie

mirizar
05-01-2005, 06:23 PM
Hi! I also would like to see an article made from this thread! I am learning a Lot and would like to print it out.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Michelle

yesim
05-02-2005, 06:27 AM
This time I worked on my selfportrait. I spended alot of time for providing the resemblence. At first I liked it very much but now... well I don't know. I am waiting for comments, they dont have to be all positive.

rosebard
05-02-2005, 01:06 PM
Yessim you doing really a great job!! :clap: Celestia will comment better on the shadow issue.

I will try to do mine this week. So I can post. Hey Windrose, where are you??
Love to see you version. :D

Hi to everyone!!

Yokovich
05-02-2005, 01:27 PM
Shadows are tough... this has been a good class for me... :clap:

Anyone have any good Shadow Palette Recipes you could share?

I'm learning to stay away from black as much as possible...
Aliz Crimsom... Ultramarine Blue... and Sap Green seem to be my favs of late...

Thanks in advance,
Bernie
Hi Bernie--I did write up some of my favorite caucasian shadow colors previously in this thread. You are correct that sap green works very well in shadow! I have gotten a little behind and my installment will be finalized this week instead of last weekend!

One thing I forgot to mention during all my waxing about how wonderful and necessary complements are for portrait shadows is that if you mix too much of 2 complements wet into wet you'll get MUD (instead of a nice shadow)! If you didn't know that before, you might know it now by trying all this. Don't get discouraged if this has happened however, since if you want to learn how to place convincing and believable shadows you'll have to get this complement thing down. When you do a crappy portrait you are one mediocre portrait down and that much CLOSER toward doing successful portraits! Learning can not take place without the presence of error!

Complements neutralize one another and make for beautiful grays and neutrals --but in depicting flesh it can look "dead"! For that reason add complements sparingly into your "flesh foundation" until you see the right value and tone emerge on your palette. :)

Yokovich
05-02-2005, 01:58 PM
This time I worked on my selfportrait. I spended alot of time for providing the resemblence. At first I liked it very much but now... well I don't know. I am waiting for comments, they dont have to be all positive.
yesim, the time you spent on this portrait was time WELL spent! You achieved a very good resemblance and your shadows are especially nicely done. It appears your photo was taken in some indoor "daylight" conditions with some cool (temperature) surroundings. This provided for some SUBTLE shadows that you handled very well! It is helpful to light the face strongly from one side with a lamp, just to provide plenty of shadow to deal with. Subtle all over light such as in your photo is tougher to handle--but you have done it! Looks like you used some blue-ish highlights in your brown hair! Nice!
I noticed how pale you painted your skin compared to your skin. Your portrait looks a bit "anemic" compared to the real you who looks quite healthy. You may have "overdone" the blue in your local/base/foundation color. I photoshopped more red into you on the right---do you agree it seems closer to "you" in terms of color? (My example may be a bit too red but you probably get the idea that you need the additional of red so that you look more alive).
A very nice self portrait, yesim. You might want to post it in the general portrait forum for additional critique.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-May-2005/33531-yesimmerged.jpg

yesim
05-03-2005, 05:53 AM
[QUOTE=celestia]yesim, the time you spent on this portrait was time WELL spent! You achieved a very good resemblance and your shadows are especially nicely done. It appears your photo was taken in some indoor "daylight" conditions with some cool (temperature) surroundings. This provided for some SUBTLE shadows that you handled very well! It is helpful to light the face strongly from one side with a lamp, just to provide plenty of shadow to deal with. Subtle all over light such as in your photo is tougher to handle--but you have done it! Looks like you used some blue-ish highlights in your brown hair! Nice!
I noticed how pale you painted your skin compared to your skin. Your portrait looks a bit "anemic" compared to the real you who looks quite healthy. You may have "overdone" the blue in your local/base/foundation color. I photoshopped more red into you on the right---do you agree it seems closer to "you" in terms of color? (My example may be a bit too red but you probably get the idea that you need the additional of red so that you look more alive).
A very nice self portrait, yesim. You might want to post it in the general portrait forum for additional critique.


Thank you for the critics. You are right about the colors I will take into consideration.
The hair is black with bright red. It is a good idea to use dark blue at the back side.
Do you have any ideas about the background. I am allways lost when it comes to the backgrounds. I mean the raw sienna and the color of the blouse. ( I changed the color of the blouse 3 times) I -sort of- used green to balance the red in the hair. But for sienna I just put it instictively.

Yokovich
05-03-2005, 01:59 PM
Yesim--you instinctively tossed in a background that works pretty well. Warm "neutral" backgrounds are nice for portraits. Some portrait artists favor a technique where they splash dabs of light mixtures of Thalo Greeen, Aliz crimson and white in intervals over the background area and then blob pale gray throughout it. They blend it all together but allow some variances in values. The "atmosphere" is then established as a phenonmenon of space. It takes plenty of practice. Look at other portraits with successful backgrounds. The background color is usually "integrated" somehow because the artist uses the same colors somehow in the main character too.
I like the shirt color. Add red to that green and make a mixture of that and see what you think of it as a basis for a neutral warm gray. :)

windrose
05-04-2005, 05:36 PM
Bard,
Thank you for asking about my efforts. I too, made an effort at a self portrait, but have no way of posting it at this time.
Working with acrylic and it certainly has its trying moments, but I do like the effects of the complements.
Thanks for asking. This classroom has been very helpful.
Windrose

stoney
05-04-2005, 07:00 PM
Shadows are tough... this has been a good class for me... :clap:

Anyone have any good Shadow Palette Recipes you could share?


Bernie

Only The Shadow Knows®. :evil:

Rosic
05-04-2005, 11:03 PM
Only The Shadow Knows®. :evil:

Great one! http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-May-2005/17108-18735-roflbo_emoticon.gif

stoney
05-05-2005, 01:30 AM
Great one!

Thank you. (eyes dance)

Peter T.
05-08-2005, 03:14 PM
Oh portrait guru, I have a question I have asked elsewhere, which maybe you can give some illumination (warm/cool?) to? Most shadow discussions talk about the colours, temperatures, etc.in the shadows.

But what happens to the warm/cool and colour shifts in a portrait as the forms move towards the shadow side (but haven't quite got there yet)? The way I figure it, if you take a 3/4 side lit face, at the brightest spot (say a warm highlight on a caucasian orangey cheek) the basic colour is bleached out, then as the cheek turns you see the basic colour, and it slowly gets more saturated as the form moves towards the shadow, and then for a bit it goes deeper and what looks to me like warmer (maybe an optical illusion from the deeper saturation of the colour?), and then eventually goes cooler with the arrival of the penumbra of the shadow. The confusing bit is that all the books say that as you turn away from the light, the colours get cool; but if you actually look at a person or a portrait, the flesh colour seems to get warmer just before it hits the shadow line. Or so it seems to me?

yours,

Peter T.

margmackisack
05-09-2005, 08:31 AM
Celeste, this is a fabulous classroom and I am learning heaps.
I too have a question - it doesn't seem to be dealt with directly anywhere. It is this: are the shadows where the form moves away from the light (so, for instance, the side of the head away from the light) treated the same way as cast shadows (for instance, under the nose or chin)??
Cheers,
Marg :clap:

rosebard
05-09-2005, 01:06 PM
Hi Celeste and all classmates,

Celeste I always get confused about what color to use to neutralize and how. Yesterday revising my notebook something came into my head and would love to hear if the way I am thinking is right or not.

Ok, here it goes. What color to use?
The comb base for most skin tone is red + yellow that gives a tons of colors. Gave give a pale rose, a yellowsh or orange tone. Am right so far? The reds and yellows used for it could be the cadmios (red and yellow, light or medium), the earths (yellow/red ochre, raw or burnt Siena), Vermillion, lemon yellow. Not sure if there are more colors that could be used for skin tone, maybe you or other can add somthing to it if my thinking is right. Ok!!
So to neutralize and for the shadows:
Reddish use greens (sap, viridian or phato green??)
yellowsh use purples (I am not sure maybe a mix of red and blue??)
orangesh use blues (ultramarine, cerulean or phato blue??)

Is that right???

let me see if I understood right, we use the complement to neutralize the local color to use it for shading and shadows??

Sorry to be hard to understanding these it is because I am still having problem to apply it to my daughters portrait. I am a slow learn so pardon me.

YOur explaination are so good and I am looking forward to see next instalment.

Thanks a lot Celeste.

eileenclaire
05-09-2005, 01:36 PM
But what happens to the warm/cool and colour shifts in a portrait as the forms move towards the shadow side (but haven't quite got there yet)? The way I figure it, if you take a 3/4 side lit face, at the brightest spot (say a warm highlight on a caucasian orangey cheek) the basic colour is bleached out, then as the cheek turns you see the basic colour, and it slowly gets more saturated as the form moves towards the shadow, and then for a bit it goes deeper and what looks to me like warmer (maybe an optical illusion from the deeper saturation of the colour?), and then eventually goes cooler with the arrival of the penumbra of the shadow. The confusing bit is that all the books say that as you turn away from the light, the colours get cool; but if you actually look at a person or a portrait, the flesh colour seems to get warmer just before it hits the shadow line. Or so it seems to me?

yours,

Peter T.

All this talk of shadows made me bring out my copy of Painting Beautiful Skin Tones with Color and Light by Chris Saper, which I refer to all the time.

The edge of the shadow, the part I believe you are referring to, is called the core. According to the book, the core is darker and warmer than the light or the shadow, with greater color intensity.

So you are correct in your assumptions here. Chris has some good examples in her book to illustrate this point.

Marg, I am sure Celeste will come along with an answer, but I just wanted to clarify - when you say "treated the same way" did you mean regarding color temperature?

Rose, I think you have a very good grasp of the essentials here!

Yokovich
05-09-2005, 02:26 PM
eileen--thanks for helping me here--your answer is right on the money! I apologize for having gone missing --I have the last leg *almost* all done and I will be back to answer these questions with visual aids --:)

Peter T.
05-09-2005, 05:09 PM
Thanks, eileen, I have Saper's book and somehow missed that page! But it is certainly puzzling still -- sometimes the colour on the shadow side of the shadow line is saturated, or maybe it is just getting darker, but why is it warmer? Is it some kind of an optical illusion; or a painter's trick so as to emphasize the imminent arrival of cool as the shadow continues?


yours,

Peter T.

rosebard
05-09-2005, 07:37 PM
Thanks Eillen for beeing around too. :D
Good to know I am starting to understand.
Celestia you are going to answer the questions with demo?? UHMMMMM, you are :clap: Great. Thanks a lot for your hard work here.

Still waiting with pleasure.

:wave:

Yokovich
05-10-2005, 01:08 AM
Hi everyone! I am back! Let's identify FIVE KEY areas pertaining to shadows in portraiture (or any form for that matter). I have marked the areas on the reference photo.
1. BODY TONE (that is our "foundation" flesh color) that is form in line with light.
2. BODY SHADOW, Where the form is NOT in line with light
3. CAST SHADOW Where a form stands in the way of light (I neglected to mark it on the photo but the shadow on the side of the nose is also a cast shadow)
4. HIGHLIGHT --convex or cancave plane in direct line with light
5. REFLECTION--where light bounces into shadow.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-May-2005/33531-Aidentify.jpg

I made a very quick 3 value thumbnail with vine charcoal, just to remind myself about the most important shadows.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-May-2005/33531-Cvaluedrawing.jpg

Then I drew the model onto watercolor paper with a pencil:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-May-2005/33531-Bdrawing.jpg

I established a flesh tone using yellow ochre, cadmium red and a bit of white (I am not a watercolorist, the colors are the same colors I might use in any medium). I decided to put the model into a warmer light than the photo indicates (so I used more a bit more yellow ochre in the foundation color).
I applied a wash of the foundation over the drawing and let it dry.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-May-2005/33531-Dfirstwash.jpg

For the shadows I washed over the foundation flesh color with viridian green and some colbalt blue. These are cool colors (because I am represented her as lit with a warm source). Then I added some red over the cool colors to "neutralize" it. I let it dry.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-May-2005/33531-Egreenred.jpg

I added more red and let it dry

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-May-2005/33531-Fmorered.jpg

I wet the paper once more and "lifted" and blotted some of the shadow color that was too strong until it looked more natural. I placed some highlights on the cheeks and nose.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-May-2005/33531-Gfinalportx.jpg

I checked to make sure I established the FIVE areas that would help me depict the person. I used cool shadows (over the all over flesh tone) and I matched the values and provided Body tone, Body shadow, Cast shadow (the nose and on the neck), Highlight (the lightest areas) and reflection (in the cheek). All these elements help to define the form and create a "three dimensional" face.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-May-2005/33531-Hwithvaluesx.jpg

To recap! I started off with some green to establish the shadow and then I used a combination of colors (red & blue) that provided a bit of a "purple" complement to the warmed "yellow" skin tone.
The best way to learn about shadow in human faces is to be bold and take some risks--steer away from "brown-only" shadows. Look closely at successful portraits--you will see the influence of GREEN, BLUE-RED, and VIOLET!
Make sense? :)

rosebard
05-10-2005, 09:54 AM
Thanks Celestia for your efforts to help us out.
YOu are a watercolorist, but did well for that matter!! :clap:

I saved the page and will right way study the lesson.
Thanks! :wave:

Yokovich
05-10-2005, 03:01 PM
Finally, if you want to learn more about shadows the best thing to do is practice with little thumbnails in any medium you like. Use colored pencils or even crayolas, anything at all. It is helpful to practice in ways so that you won't get too attached to the final product--be loose and experimental. Here as an example, I used markers and I "made up" a face in my head (except it turned out looking a little like me..lol...you know how that is..!). I started out with sort of a cool flesh tone in my first 3 thumbnails but later wound up with a warm flesh tone (because I was just "playing around"). Green is helpful in all lighting conditions because caucasians are predominately red. Since I used markers that were kind of golden for my final thumbnail I also used violet in the shadow of the last 2 thumbnails. I used all the steps I did when I did the oil paintings and the watercolor. Adding the complements seems easiest to do when done in layers.
So now break into that sap green, colbalt blue and violet! I think you will be surprised how your portraits will improve.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-May-2005/33531-comboone.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-May-2005/33531-combotwo.jpg

Peter T.
05-11-2005, 10:26 AM
hi celestia, nice, useful pictures -- any thoughts on my question (s)? Any help appreciated.

yours,

Peter T.

Yokovich
05-11-2005, 01:43 PM
What happens to the warm/cool and colour shifts in a portrait as the forms move towards the shadow side (but haven't quite got there yet)?
Peter T.

It is darker, warmer, stronger and more saturated..thanks for bringing this up because my watercolor portrait would have been improved by adding what is called the "shadow core". I have marked it along side the nose in the portrait below where the shadow is "starting". With the addition of a warmer & darker line this portrait would be strengthened.

The confusing bit is that all the books say that as you turn away from the light, the colours get cool; but if you actually look at a person or a portrait, the flesh colour seems to get warmer just before it hits the shadow line. Or so it seems to me?

You've got it completely right, Peter and you have stated it well! If the shadows just went warm to cool -BLAM!- with no transition it would look alright but not as dimensional. The addition of the warmer area before it hits the shadow will help make a more convincing shape.



http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-May-2005/33531-shadowcore.jpg

Peter T.
05-11-2005, 05:27 PM
thanks, celestia, glad to have an expert opinion, I thought I was seeing things! It is still a puzzle to me why it should be so (I mean in terms of physics or optical illusions or whatever). The discussions of why the shadows look cooler, etc., make sense (turning away from the light, etc.), but why the "shadow core" should look warmer is not clear to me. Interesting, though.

yours,

Peter T.

Nata
05-12-2005, 10:27 AM
Hi Celestia and to all the members participating.

This is such an informative thread and thanks for all the work you put in :clap: :clap: :clap:

Is there any chance to include African skin in your tutorial. It may not be what the majority of members is interested in but I would be grateful for a few lines and examples on this subject. I have not painted caucasian skin for some years!

As you may well know, there is a variety of skin-tones in African skin; light, dark, warm, cool - depending from which area people originate. Very seldom do I have the perfect light-source and direction for my models and never enough time to set it up. Sometimes I have to rely on snapshots. I try to rectify this problem in the painting and sometimes imagine and change the light-source. Most times I use two light sources, cool reflected from one side and warm from the other to prevent the shadow-side from becoming to dark. How would you approach the light and shadow's colour temperature?
Your expert advice would be really appreciated.

Angela

Discworldjunkie
05-12-2005, 11:45 AM
Your images are lovely!! I like the colors and the lighting. I'm trying to apply these lessons to more realistic style too. My portraits are flat and there is not enough color because I try to paint the photograph too literally.

Also, you might like to read the color section in Andrew Loomis' book Creative Illustration that you can download here: http://www.fineart.sk I think that is correct. The book is old but still has neat stuff in it about color and tone.

:)

Yokovich
05-12-2005, 01:43 PM
Angela ..so sorry I nearly forgot I had promised to address the other skin colors. Your paintings are beautiful..perhaps you will share your palette colors? discworld--thank you for that great link.

Black skin ranges from a yellow orange to a grayed down verson of red orange (burnt sienna) Black skin can be grayed down with greens and blues.

Cadminum scarlet mixed with ultramarine blue makes a sensational brown and variances of it can produce a variety of african american base colors.

In bright sunlight a black person's shadows would tend toward a blue and or greened shadow (blue and or green added to the base color). In a blue-ish light their shadows might be warmed with Cadmium lemon with black and or scarlet and black (Yellow & black and or scarlet & black added to the base color).

Nata
05-12-2005, 06:33 PM
[QUOTE=celestia]..perhaps you will share your palette colors?

Thank you so much for replying. Your colour-tips will give me another base to work and experiment with. They are not too different from what I use but with pastels I sometimes do not remember the last selection. I often use yellow orange, vermillon, cadmium red or scarlet, carmine, ultramarine, blue greens and green blues... very seldom do I use earth tones. Before, when I started painting dark skin, I used a caput mortum or terra pozzuoli base which, especially with oils, ended in endless overpainting, scraping off and overpainting again. I have lots of paints and pastel-sticks left in these colours - living in a remote part of the world one tends to hoard painting material. Any idea where and how I could use them? - apart from flower pots :rolleyes:

Discworldjunkie, thanks for the link but could not find the download you mentioned.

The handprint-link is amazingly informative. I could spend hours on that site.

Really looking forward to the next sections of your tutorial, celestia

Angela

Pars
05-12-2005, 08:27 PM
Celeste, you've done a remarkable job with this classroom. I don't think clappies are enough to thank you for all the effort I know you must have put into doing the class and all the wonderful painted and drawn examples. I know I'll be using/thinking/doing portraits with more insight into shadows than I've ever done or thought about before.

And I was really thrilled that you added watercolour as well as oils, and colour suggestions. :)

Nata, what wonderful portraits you've added. I've done a few small sketches and paintings of dark skinned women, nothing as glorious as the two you've shared, and will be changing my palette post-haste as I have often used the earth tones and see how much richer I can get the skin tones if I widen my palette.

As for your hoarded :) caput and terra how about the caput for lips and terra for backgrounds and definitely some landscapes of your beautiful Kenya.

Discworldjunkie
05-13-2005, 03:00 AM
Hi there. About the link to Andrew Loomis' books. Once at fineart.sk there should be a link that says Anatomy books by Andrew Loomis or Andrew Loomis anatomy books, something like that. If you click on that there will be a page that has 4 or 5 of his books. Now, another thing...they are not really downloads like you download one file per book. You have to literally click on thumbnail images of each page in the book and then right click save as on the larger picture scan of the page.

It is slow on my old computer but mine is 8 years old it might be faster for you. I downloaded all of the books this way and some at http://www.saveloomis.org Figure Drawing For All Its Worth is a great book that talks about proportion, drawing more than one person in a scene and having them all look proportionally correct, composition, muscles, and so on. I really do not know how I spent all these years not having these books. There is also a direct link to Creative Illustration at the saveloomis site in case the fineart one is still hard to navigate.

Sorry for the long post but I feel like I am on a mission now that every artist in the world have a copy of these books! :D

:)

Discworldjunkie
05-13-2005, 03:14 AM
And now a question.
Would reflected color, color reflecting into the shadow, also be cool or warm as in if the shadow is cool should then the reflected color be made cool even if the object's color that is reflecting is warm?

Or did this all ready get asked?

I have to make time to copy paste all this thread and print it then highlight and underline!

:)

Peter T.
05-13-2005, 11:23 AM
Reverting back to my earlier topic, it occurs to me that one of the reasons why there would be a peak of colour just before the shadow in a painting is in fact an optical illusion, because the dark shadow acts as a kind of frame to or edge against the larger patch of colour.

yours,

Peter T.

Yokovich
05-13-2005, 01:54 PM
And now a question.
Would reflected color, color reflecting into the shadow, also be cool or warm as in if the shadow is cool should then the reflected color be made cool even if the object's color that is reflecting is warm?

Or did this all ready get asked?

I have to make time to copy paste all this thread and print it then highlight and underline!

:)
We haven't really discussed reflected light very much at all. Reflected light is color/light that is bouncing off of another surface. Much depends on how close or far away the surface is and how strong the light creating it. The color of the object creating the reflection is what is represented (but of course it will also be grayed down because of being "inside" of a shadow.....and the way to neutralize is with small amounts of the complement). If your subject is standing next to alot of red you will find red in the reflected light.

Yokovich
05-13-2005, 01:58 PM
Reverting back to my earlier topic, it occurs to me that one of the reasons why there would be a peak of colour just before the shadow in a painting is in fact an optical illusion, because the dark shadow acts as a kind of frame to or edge against the larger patch of colour.

yours,

Peter T. I think you are pretty much correct--that it is some kind of "illusion" because as I study my own face in the bathroom mirror, side lit with a window, I don't really see at area that seems warmer right at the "beginning" of the shadow---but it is clear that portrait artists use this method to accentuate the area. A heightened warm shadow core creates a distinct impression of going from light to shadow. :)

Peter T.
05-13-2005, 06:20 PM
thanks, celestia. One other thing: somewhere in this discussion you mentioned the phrase "turning the form" -- I have seen this phrase used for years in discussions (and in novels!!) of portrait painters, and never knew what it meant. This use of saturated colour and a warmish shadow core at the turning away of the light -- is that what it means? (just checking)

yours,

Peter T.

Discworldjunkie
05-14-2005, 10:55 AM
The core of the shadow...you are talking about the edge of the shadow right? Not the middle of the shadow so why is it called the core?

eileenclaire
05-14-2005, 01:58 PM
The core of the shadow...you are talking about the edge of the shadow right? Not the middle of the shadow so why is it called the core?

That's a good question! It confused me as well. Chris Saper calls that area the shadow's core, Helen Van Wyk called it the turning edge, and John Howard Sanden refers to it as a halftone. But they all mean the same area, the edge of the shadow.

Yokovich
05-15-2005, 12:33 AM
This use of saturated colour and a warmish shadow core at the turning away of the light -- is that what it means? (just checking)

yours,

Peter T.
yep! :)

Peter T.
05-15-2005, 08:29 PM
Sorry, there are so many terms that people are using -- terminator, shadow line, etc. By shadow core I mean the darkest part of the shadow, which (if I understand correctly from my eyes) is the fifth in the sequence (of gradual disappearence of light as one is going from highlight into shadow) -- highlight, body colour, deepening body colour, beginnings of shadow (or gradual shadow edge), shadow core, and then moderate shadow (moderate shadow being because of the influence of reflected light, etc.). Cast shadows are different because of the sharp edges.

yours,

Peter T.

Pars
05-15-2005, 08:35 PM
Peter, any way you could demonstrate this. I was feeling really comfortable but seemed to have slipped off the railing on this and the water is darn cold :evil:

Sorry, there are so many terms that people are using -- terminator, shadow line, etc. By shadow core I mean the darkest part of the shadow, which (if I understand correctly from my eyes) is the fifth in the sequence (of gradual disappearence of light as one is going from highlight into shadow) -- highlight, body colour, deepening body colour, beginnings of shadow (or gradual shadow edge), shadow core, and then moderate shadow (moderate shadow being because of the influence of reflected light, etc.). Cast shadows are different because of the sharp edges.

yours,

Peter T.

Peter T.
05-16-2005, 08:04 AM
Gee, didn't mean to drop you into the cold shadow zone of life. I am not very good at computers so can't do the snazzy things celestia does.

A really confusing couple of terms for me are halftone, penumbra, and so on. I assume they mean what I think of as the gradual onset of shadows before the shadow gets deepest. None of what I am talking about deals with sharp shadow breaks -- I am thinking more of those images you see in the books of billiard balls with front side lighting on them (or, in this context, light playing across a cheek or an arm or a leg or a breast).

yours,

Peter T.

Peter T.
05-16-2005, 04:09 PM
Finally got back my copy of Christopher Schink's book on colour in watercolour (leant to a friend) and, apart from ratifying the musings above, he also throws in the issue of intensity: that the colours are most intense in the bright light, and that one needs to be aware of muting as one goes on. He also remarks that in traditional (Renaissance, etc.) painting, artists usually painted the deepest shadows warm so as not to "put a hole" in the painting -- I assume he means by this that a too cool shadow recedes too far into the distance.

yours,

Peter T.

Pars
05-16-2005, 08:19 PM
Well, Peter, inasmuch as I have Schink's book perhaps it will edify me :wink2:

And today I was perusing Artists Magazine (the June issue) and in The Drawing Board (pg 22) the writer describes some shadow elements. He says, "look to the edges of your core shadows and cast shadows. The core shadow runs between the light and shadow side of the form and is sometimes called "the terminator edge." (And he has a visual example) - made me feel less like I was drowning and more than a swimmer. :evil:

Nata
05-17-2005, 02:46 AM
made me feel less like I was drowning and more than a swimmer. :evil:
You know, the more I read the more I feel like drowning. I love art books, I love this and similar threads, I follow many links to other sites. I have read so many definitions about the shadow core...

A question has been going through my mind for some time (maybe I should post this in another thread but I would not know where it would fit in): could artists eventually suffer from information overload? For example: Instead of reading about and experimenting with other ways of drawing, should I not go back and do more practice on the way I was taught years ago? Should I stop experimenting with different colour theories and just follow my intuition?

This is not meant to be against threads like this - it is wonderful - it is just a general question and maybe other artists feel the same: guilty for reading to much and not painting enough :(

Discworldjunkie
05-17-2005, 11:07 AM
Might be best if the art world or at least in this thread we could standardize terms so we all know what we are talking about. Not sure why this hasn't been done before what with all the books on art.

And I think we are making things more complex than they are. Just paint!

Time to get some of them 'floaty' things like we wore on our arms when we were kids!

:D

Peter T.
05-17-2005, 11:28 AM
Well, I personally read art books to problem-solve -- can I get some guidance on what I think is going on when I see something in front of me? This kind of iteration works pretty well, I find. But only when I can't solve something practically (like this shadow question). A teacher is better, but without one (as I am at the moment), a good book is a good thing. Having a reasoned understanding of some basic rules is not -- to my mind -- crippling and stultifying, on the contrary, it liberates you from all kinds of frustrations: Why DOES THIS NOT WORK!!???

Particularly it calms me down when I am working in watercolour -- so much is happening so quickly that some kind of rough signposting works for me. Going with the flow is great -- but you need the river banks.

I think it is interesting that very, very, very few books are really useful for painting with. Most of the books out there either assume too little or assume too much, and are poor at describing what they are doing.

I used to read art books as an art book junkie, as a substitute, so I am well aware of the addiction. I have many, many of them, and read and reread about 4. If I had any sense I would get rid of the piles of them, but I can't be bothered.

yours,

Peter T.

Yokovich
05-17-2005, 11:58 AM
could artists eventually suffer from information overload? For example: Instead of reading about and experimenting with other ways of drawing, should I not go back and do more practice on the way I was taught years ago? Should I stop experimenting with different colour theories and just follow my intuition?


Angela--I totally agree! Call a moratorium on art articles for a minimum of 30 days...!--lol. Seriously, I wanted to provide clear information about what I have been able to understand about shadows..but as you no doubt realize, there are scads of ways for an artist to work, and consequently scads of ways to describe it. AND..not only are we faced with all the various terms (that many times are different but mean the same thing) but also there is the issue of the MANY different ways to apply the principles! (ie: direct painting/glazes--etc). (*sigh!*)!

As I worked on the demonstrations for this tutorial I realized the more complex the information became the more people's eyes would begin to glaze over (like mine have when I have read this information for myself!)---BUT! what I hoped, above all else, to impart was that the artist must use complements to provide contrast to the "prevailing" light. From what you posted you get this. I completely agree that we can read too much information and it will bog us down! The best thing to do is to try out things "in the laboratory" --in other words experiment with pieces that we consider exercises until we understand for ourselves what is successful and what is not! The complement in shadow therory is probably something that most people really don't realize "intuitively". Many people will render a portrait of a caucasian and use brown for the shadows never dreaming that blue, green or violet (in addition to the base color) will provide the necessary contrast. . For whatever reason (and I have been guilty myself) many people want each piece they work on to be finished genius works of art without suffering through the trial and error of absorbing the information. Without the presence of error, there can be no learning! We resist doing the work..because we don't want to produce something that looks crappy, but the IRONY is, the more crappy pieces we produce the more we learn.

check your work for these common errors*:
* remembering that errors are GOOD things! We can't advance without them!

shadows rendered in the wrong value
shadows rendered too darkly, with too much contrast
shadows rendered in a saturated "color" (a shadow by definition is where the light is blocked so any color in the shadow will be muted)
shadows rendered with too sharp an edge
shadows rendered without a "bounced" reflection within it (without a reflection an object can look too flat)
shadows rendered without regard to "temperature" (without the addition of the color complement)
shadows rendered without a strong "shadow core" (shadow core is the place where the shadow "begins")
shadows rendered in only "gray" without regard to the object color

I left out one more shadow error (although it is more common to landscape artists that portrait artists)...can you guess it? This IS a test. (lol)

Peter T.
05-17-2005, 03:11 PM
That's easy. It is the evil that lurks in the hearts of men (the Shadow knows).

yours,

Peter T.

rosebard
05-17-2005, 08:44 PM
Celestia I can say the informations you gave on your demo, though the subject is really dificult to deal with, was really helpful and very well demostrated.

I started hear about warm/cool lighting in portrait couple of months ago. Since them I have being eating up anything I would find on the subject and bothering friends at WC to explain to me this or that. Even though I read a lot, the concept was always missing something to understand.

Nata, there are many ways to do things and many ways to write about things, many ways to learn things, and many ways to teach things. We must know how we learn things to be able to find the best way to learn, and what we want to learn. For example, I want to paint realistic portrait, if I go and buy any book on portrait I will get different approaches to paint different kinds of portrait. What I learned from experience is that we should learn the basics, then once we master that the rest is almost easy. Just trying out things we read leaves a lot of frustation because of the loss of time and money spent.

I started painting an year ago. And I mean painting. People in my town just paint not nothing about painting. Do you know what I mean?? If you give them a blank canvas, tubes of paint and a few brushes and no art teacher after many years holding those supplies they wouldnt know how to paint. When I started to become frustated because I found how I wanted to paint and found no art instructor in my town that holds my style. I found myself on a internet with a full of information. I am working hard on the basics. And I do paint. Not a lot because my goal is to be able to paint fine works. In other to do that I need to see what I need to learn and stick to it. Biki, a WC member told me once a phrase which I hold as a guideline. Find the work you admire, get someone that does that kind of what and learn from them. Listen to their critics, be humble, and keep going until you get there.

Luck enough WE have WC a place where humble artists are so nice to share time and knowledge, so we can learn. I admire a lot of folks here and lots of their work for that matter. I learned to respect and admire all kind of art, though I am not willing to learn all of them.

Lots of info can be more of a nightmare if we dont know how to handle it. If you dont understand something keep reading about it. Dont take like this one is right that is wrong. Just different way of explaining sometimes. One day the all things come to heart and becomes second nature to you. But you must find out where you want to go!!

Just my thoughts.

:D :wave:

Nata
05-18-2005, 05:15 AM
Thanks, Celestia and bard and I sincerely hope, you did not take my post the wrong way. I appreciate, artists giving all this tutorials and information for free and it is up to us members and readers, to "take it or leave it" and get the best out of it. I was just mentioning my own thoughts about me (!) being a bookjunkie :p and not spending enough time painting. Somewhere the link to www.handprint.com was mentioned; it is vast site and I spent hours reading and printing some of the information :o Again, it is up to myself to find the most important parts, which I needed to practice on.

Luck enough WE have WC a place where humble artists are so nice to share time and knowledge

Indeed, bard and a big thanks to Celestia again

Pars
05-18-2005, 08:55 AM
Thanks for bringing up the subject, Angela. It is helpful to hear how we each approach our work and what steps we take to achieve our goals.

I resonated all too strongly to your comments as often I get immersed in trying to understand rather than understanding by practice.

I'm off to practice! :)

And thank Celeste, again, for proving this great opportunity to explore the shadow.

Nata
05-18-2005, 11:49 AM
I left out one more shadow error (although it is more common to landscape artists that portrait artists)...can you guess it? This IS a test. (lol)
Almost missed this one

Shadows rendered with wrong perspective???

rosebard
05-18-2005, 12:01 PM
Thanks, Celestia and bard and I sincerely hope, you did not take my post the wrong way

No I really didnt. I just want to help you understand how you can better use all the information you find. I hope I did.

I appreciate, artists giving all this tutorials and information for free and it is up to us members and readers, to "take it or leave it" and get the best out of it.

I am sure you do. And you did ask the right question. WC is a place to do that. Put out what you feel. Sometimes there are people around who can be really nasty to others in their comments. But most of us will be happy to assist each other in any issue. I am new around and I can tell you that the growth in my work and within my art thoughts has beeing incredible huge. But we do need to know how to deal with our learning. I dontt have goods books available here, I dont have good art instructors, so knowing myself does the trick to learn on my own better.

Take care all of you,
:wave: :D

Grunge
05-18-2005, 04:11 PM
You know, the more I read the more I feel like drowning. I love art books, I love this and similar threads, I follow many links to other sites. I have read so many definitions about the shadow core...

A question has been going through my mind for some time (maybe I should post this in another thread but I would not know where it would fit in): could artists eventually suffer from information overload? For example: Instead of reading about and experimenting with other ways of drawing, should I not go back and do more practice on the way I was taught years ago? Should I stop experimenting with different colour theories and just follow my intuition?

This is not meant to be against threads like this - it is wonderful - it is just a general question and maybe other artists feel the same: guilty for reading to much and not painting enough :(

Sure, you might suffer from information overload. but that is a temporary feeling. Take a break, breath in and out. Do something fun with your art. Not every piece of art work has to be a work of art. If you mess up...it's only a piece of paper. You may find that in playing with your art, as well as taking it seriously, that you'll learn something. Something that may only have value to you, such as how you feel about one colour placed next to another; maybe you'll stumble upon a new texture.

Reading is certainly good for you but not every book, not every article is a bible to be followed. They are guidelines made up of the opinions, the trials and errors of other artists. Feel free to pick and choose amongst which projects you wish to try. Have fun with it. But don't ever let conflicting opinions of artists stop you from trying it your way.

There is no guilt in reading too much...but it is a shame if you don't get a chance to create as well.

Yokovich
05-18-2005, 10:41 PM
Almost missed this one

Shadows rendered with wrong perspective???
no, but that is a good answer! I was thinking of cast shadows that are rendered in the pure complement of the object without regard for what it is being cast upon. Sometimes a beginner paints and apple and give it a green shadow--and disregards the fact that the apple is sitting on a blue tablecloth. The blue tablecloth would show in the cast shadow. :)

Martha7
05-23-2005, 11:02 PM
Hello!
I am Martha Rivera from Puerto Rico, a self taught artist (blessed with artistic talent). I've been painting for several years now even though I never went to art school or attended art classes. What a wonderful thing to find and have access to websites like this one. Wow! There is so much to learn. I dearly appreciate the lessons, it keeps me fired up. Practicing these lessons are so much fun. I love art and I always encourage myself to keep growing. I'll try anything and everything. I'm looking foward to share with you guys some day (soon I hope), some of my work. Once again THANKS! I will stay in touch!

Martha Rivera

stoney
05-24-2005, 12:43 AM
Hello!
I am Martha Rivera from Puerto Rico, a self taught artist (blessed with artistic talent). I've been painting for several years now even though I never went to art school or attended art classes. What a wonderful thing to find and have access to websites like this one. Wow! There is so much to learn. I dearly appreciate the lessons, it keeps me fired up. Practicing these lessons are so much fun. I love art and I always encourage myself to keep growing. I'll try anything and everything. I'm looking foward to share with you guys some day (soon I hope), some of my work. Once again THANKS! I will stay in touch!

Martha Rivera

Welcome to the 'zoo.' :)

Discworldjunkie
05-28-2005, 10:10 AM
Hello!
I am Martha Rivera from Puerto Rico, a self taught artist (blessed with artistic talent). I've been painting for several years now even though I never went to art school or attended art classes. What a wonderful thing to find and have access to websites like this one. Wow! There is so much to learn. I dearly appreciate the lessons, it keeps me fired up. Practicing these lessons are so much fun. I love art and I always encourage myself to keep growing. I'll try anything and everything. I'm looking foward to share with you guys some day (soon I hope), some of my work. Once again THANKS! I will stay in touch!

Martha Rivera


We should stay on topic. This thread is getting too tangled.

:)

Johnnie
06-09-2005, 08:47 AM
Hi Celestia

Thanks very much for doing the Demonstration.. It has really enhanced my painting and allowed met o paint what I see rather than what I think is suppose to be there.. Gave me the abllity to adjust temperature from not having a clue about it.

Just great you giving your time like this.. I watch and "Save" all your Demo's and Wips.. Hope you dont mind.. Tnx again

Johnnie

vee_209
06-25-2005, 08:44 AM
Thank you, Celestia, for such a marvelous lesson! I'm currently trying to improve my use of cool/warm effect and you have illustrated the point brilliantly.

Vee

Leslie Pz
06-30-2005, 11:48 AM
Very wonderful! Love the portrait paintings, too! Amazing highlights in the hair and contrasting background really helps define the planes of the face and features.

Thank you for this article!
-Les

feros842005
01-15-2006, 12:30 PM
thank you Celestia From Bolivia, I'd like to share some of my portraits but till I know how to, This is it.

Bye..........

feros842005

Dana Design
01-16-2006, 05:44 PM
Feros, try the link at the bottom of my signature line. Place them in the "Portraiture" forum so that all can share.

Andi Redfern
01-30-2006, 06:13 AM
Thanks for taking the time to show us this!

Andi

jenner567
03-12-2006, 02:30 PM
Hello Celest, please forgive my intrusion. I don't know if it's appropriate for me to send this to you so late, after this thread has ended, but I'll give it a try for some advice.

I have been trying to follow your instructions for portriture. I've included my reference photo, and a photo of the first phase.

If I understand correctly, after this dries, I am to paint in purple on the shadow side of the face wiping off the highlighted parts. Would I include the white blouse in this procedure?

I would like to obtain that dramatic look, by making the right side the shadowed part.

After I do that, paint in the base color for the face, let it dry, paint in the light and dark shadows with purple or appropriate colors, dry, then, for the added dramatic look, paint in purple again on the darkest part of the right side of the face.

Then, paint in the background first, then the hair next.

Celest, this is my first attempt at such a sophisticated approach. I so love your instructions, and hope you will comment. However, I know you are very busy, and in a huge demand, if you can't help, I understand completely.

Thanks so much for all you do on the forum, you are such a blessing.

Sincerely,