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Kashifa
03-28-2005, 04:53 PM
I use turpentine for under painting and to thinning the oil paints. I notice when I use an intensive amount of it, it make paint so sticky and take long time to dry. Infect I am worry about my one painting I use turpentine for thinning the oil paint and its now more then a moth and it is not still dry. What should I do? How long it will take to dry? Am i useing right way of it?

rroberts
03-28-2005, 05:47 PM
Are you mixing turpentine into standard oil paints or water-mixable?
And how thick are you painting? A heavy impasto could conceivably take a long time to dry, especially in a damp climate.

cheers!

housecatnick
03-28-2005, 07:48 PM
I use turp to thin as well but not too much as the turp breaks down the binding properties of the oil paint (I'd put some linseed in there - there's many formulas)

As well as the questions from rroberts I'd like to know what brand paints you use. Artist or student grade? Are you using artist grade turp?

It does sound like the paint is on there pretty thick - is it?

Kashifa
03-29-2005, 12:16 PM
i use winsor & newton artist oil paints and my style is so smooth like a glazing. In this painting which giveing me trouble, i painted front grass and use tur to make my long strocks go. You can see it in this link.

http://www.kashifaarts.com/WebGallery/NigraFallSpring.jpg

jamie malloy
03-29-2005, 01:38 PM
hi i don't know what could be causing your problem all i know is that i use turps to thin, i use a hell of a lot of it sometimes with no linseed oil and i use decorators turps, really cheap stuff and my paintings dry in about two days and they have stayed bright so far. so i dont beleive in student and artists quaility, its just a way for companys to make more money as i have used both and many brands and i actuall prefer daler's georgian best i think also they invented artists and students quality as a snobism as we are all students till we die. sorry about the rant :D just in my opinion you need not worry as ther is not much differnce between artists quality and the derogitory "students" quality in my experience, so its not that thats causing you problem. :D

purityplus
03-29-2005, 02:42 PM
I am having the same problem. I used a recipe from Bill's?? Glazing for the lean medium and the only stand oil i could find was a linseed one. So i wonder whether that, the turps and damar didn't bind well. It went on like water but has been sticky for about a week. Perhaps i didn't calculate my underpainting ratios correctly. I have since redone the portrait and will apply the lean medium again today (new canvas) and will be using a medicine dropper to get it right. I admit i did kinda estimate the original lean medium. All trial and error i think for me. By the way, your painting looks great!! Love the flowers. Cheers. Jo :)

Kashifa
03-29-2005, 03:01 PM
I think this mean I should wait till it dry completely and just ignore the time how long it takes.

rroberts
03-29-2005, 03:26 PM
... i dont beleive in student and artists quaility, its just a way for companys to make more money as i have used both and many brands and i actuall prefer daler's georgian best i think also they invented artists and students quality as a snobism as we are all students till we die.

There really is a difference. So-called "student-quality" paints contain a LOT more fillers designed to extend the pigment farther. Artist-grade paints presumably have a greater pigment load per tube, but that will vary from one company to another.

In the long run, I don't know that it really makes any difference to the final outcome or longevity of a painting whether you use student-grade or higher quality paints. It will take another century or so to see the outcome first-hand.

For myself, though, I use the best I can buy because:
1. I invest so much time into the preparation and the execution of the painting.
2. A potential buyer can reasonably expect that I used the best quality materials available.
3. Good paint handles differently and goes farther.

By way of analogy, think of meatloaf. A high-quality meatloaf doesn't use much filler (bread, crackers, crumbs, etc.). A lesser-quality cheaper meatloaf has a higher proportion of filler to meat. They both fill you up. They can both taste good if well-prepared.

Frankly, I make almost all of my own paints. Then I truly know what went into them. The plus side is that I get a LOT more paint for the same amount of money that I might have expended on commercially-prepared colors.

cheers!

housecatnick
03-29-2005, 04:55 PM
hi i don't know what could be causing your problem all i know is that i use turps to thin, i use a hell of a lot of it sometimes with no linseed oil and i use decorators turps, really cheap stuff and my paintings dry in about two days and they have stayed bright so far. just in my opinion you need not worry as ther is not much differnce between artists quality and the derogitory "students" quality in my experience, so its not that thats causing you problem. :D

I agree with rroberts - and here's a way to see the difference:

Next time you're at the art supply store, get three 37ml tubes of Cadmium Red. (Let's say, Winton, Windsor Newton and Old Holland) Weigh each one in your hand. You'll see that the Winton is the lightest - why? Between the three tubes, it is the one with less pigment (rroberts anology of meatloaf is a good one...)

Student grade paints also have fillers that can change your pigments through time. I've seen Titanium White turn yellow in months with student grade.

Your turpentine makes a difference as well. A low grade solvent from the hardware store promotes yellowing in pigments as well as being harsher in general, to the canvas.

If your paints are staying wet too long on the canvas for your underpainting and you're using thin washes, try experimenting with other colors for the underpainting. Some pigments dry faster than others (I use Raw Umber and it's dry the next day without the use of driers).

Good Luck!

Einion
03-30-2005, 06:31 AM
I use turpentine for under painting and to thinning the oil paints. I notice when I use an intensive amount of it, it make paint so sticky and take long time to dry. Infect I am worry about my one painting I use turpentine for thinning the oil paint and its now more then a moth and it is not still dry. What should I do? How long it will take to dry? Am i useing right way of it?
A large amount of turps added to your oil paint should not increase the drying time, this is routinely done for underpainting in a layered technique and it should actually improve drying. Robert might be right, you could be adding quite a bit and then painting thickly which would tend to produce a slow-drying passage, particularly in combination with certain paints, as the solvent needs to work its way through to the surface to evaporate.

Which colours did you use for the greens? These might be slow-drying colours which would tend to naturally take longer to dry than others, so what do you think is a long time? The sticky part has me worried though, that almost certainly means the turps is at least partially to blame.

What kind of turps are you using and how old is it? It should be as clear as water, with a mild-to-moderate piney odour; if you put a drop on a sheet of glass it will evaporate and leave no trace. If you try this and you get a 'greasy' residue, or a yellowish visible ring around the edges of the drop then throw it away unless you have another use for it that is not fine-art related.

Just in case you don't know, store your turps in a brown glass bottle or a can. If you buy it in clear glass you must store the bottle in the dark once opened unless you use it up in good time. It's also a good idea if you don't use it quickly to add marbles or stainless-steel bearings to the container to raise the level and minimise the amount of oxygen trapped inside the container when it is closed.


I am having the same problem. I used a recipe from Bill's?? Glazing for the lean medium and the only stand oil i could find was a linseed one. So i wonder whether that, the turps and damar didn't bind well.
Linseed stand oil is just fine, but you should know that stand oil slows drying; in combination with turps and dammar though you shouldn't have formed a slow-drying medium. Check your turps as I've mentioned above, just to make sure it hasn't gone off.

BTW, turps makes no contribution to binding here, that is the role of the oil and dammar.

Perhaps i didn't calculate my underpainting ratios correctly. I have since redone the portrait and will apply the lean medium again today (new canvas) and will be using a medicine dropper to get it right. I admit i did kinda estimate the original lean medium.
Definitely a good idea to measure carefully, this sort of thing is like baking, not like general cookery :) precise measurements can be very important for consistent results.

As I mention above, it might also depend on the colours to which you added it, in any decent oil range there will be a wide range of drying times and many of the colours made with synthetic organic pigments will dry quite slowly.


i dont beleive in student and artists quaility, its just a way for companys to make more money as i have used both and many brands and i actuall prefer daler's georgian best i think also they invented artists and students quality as a snobism as we are all students till we die. sorry about the rant :D
There is most certainly a difference, it's just more pronounced with certain colours (and it depends on which artists' oils you're comparing them too!)

Apart from hues made from substitute pigments for expensive colours the pigment proportion will be lower, hence the lower price - coloured pigments are one of the significant parts of the final cost. Student-quality oil paints will also tend to use cheaper oil and could include metallic driers to speed up or even out the drying time across the range as varied characteristics are not popular with the intended buyers. They may also be milled less comprehensively (it takes electricity, hence longer milling costs more) which could be reflected in their greater tendency to separate in the tube and their general consistency.


Next time you're at the art supply store, get three 37ml tubes of Cadmium Red. (Let's say, Winton, Windsor Newton and Old Holland) Weigh each one in your hand. You'll see that the Winton is the lightest - why? Between the three tubes, it is the one with less pigment
Although this idea has some merit you have to remember that Old Holland use lead tubes, slightly heavier than aluminium :D

Student grade paints also have fillers that can change your pigments through time. I've seen Titanium White turn yellow in months with student grade.
Where did you pick this up? It's not the fillers that are responsible for this, it would be the oil, possibly in concert with an added metallic dryer.

Your turpentine makes a difference as well. A low grade solvent from the hardware store promotes yellowing in pigments as well as being harsher in general, to the canvas.
Cheap turps may indeed be a problem for drying time and the formation of a tacky film, but it does not make pigments yellow! Please try to do a little research before posting this sort of thing, there's practically nothing that will actually change the colour of pigments in normal circumstances.

Einion

purityplus
03-30-2005, 02:30 PM
Thanks Einion for addressing us all. :clap:
My turps looks fine but i will take it outa the sun( :rolleyes: ). Its currently sitting on my kitchen table. Thank goodness we are not a family that eats at the table cause it is covered in about 3 work in progresses. I have actually measured my medium this time and left the stand oil out. Afterall i am only at the underpainting stage so i need it kinda basic. Thanks again. Jo. :)