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Mikey
03-21-2005, 04:53 PM
I forget which number in the series this is: Une Vocation, The Harvester, A La Fontaine and forget Gabrielle for another time, but there was the frotesse of the unfinished painting and The White Queen, if you count that. I've cropped this in for the small canvas. You'll see my technique is quite different for this one with dark paint over a wet ground and some rubbing for a few highlights.

This is from La Priere and I'm looking for the link on ARC.

Oil paints on 9 x 12 inch canvas.

http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=4854

Any comments please.

Mikey

laketrees
03-21-2005, 05:58 PM
Hi Mikey ...
I just know this one will be DIVINE.... :clap: good start here!!!
cheers kim

A Few Pigments
03-21-2005, 08:18 PM
You seem to keep going back to Bouguereau. Do you think you learn more from him then the other artists you've copied?

Mikey
03-22-2005, 06:48 AM
Thanks Kim, my good start came from my change of attitude. First of all I primed the factory prepared canvas then sanded it, the gave a another coat and sanded it again. You may notice how well the paint is going down with good darks, but I think it is more than that.

Bruce, WB has taught me a lot about painting flesh and how to paint hands. I think he has taken everything he could from the great old masters, then added something of his own to enable to me find a more up to date painting technique than I might with previous painters.

Raphael has something special that Bougie doesn't in my opinion. He was creating objects of sublime beauty and I don't think Bougie quite has that inspite of his technique. Rapahel has something precious I want to catch hold of.

Mikey

Anita Murphy
03-22-2005, 09:10 AM
Ok I am here, pulled up my chair and waiting to see what unfolds. I love your WIPs. Learning a lot! Great start - what an image, those eyes!

Mikey
03-22-2005, 02:40 PM
Oh dear me present, something went wrong today so I won't post. Not to worry, it's still at the underpainting stage. She just looks like a truly awful little girl. But thanks for the comments and I'll bring it right back tomorrow. I look at that flesh paint application in this one and am truly in awe of WB. I'd love to have seen him at work.

Mikey

A Few Pigments
03-22-2005, 06:23 PM
Mikey, Raphael and all the artists of the renaissance tried to exalt the look of the world. They had no interest in rendering things the way they really looked. But Bouguereau had very different goals. It can be difficult when copying Raphaels work to not let things get out of control and go from the sublime to the absurd.

There’s a really bad thunder storm here now, so I have to dash before it fries my modem.

Mikey
03-22-2005, 06:28 PM
Bruce, I don't think WB gave us the real world at all. It is true that his details were historically correct, but in all truth those people for the most part did not exist as he portrayed them. But now we must not enter a debate.

Mikey

A Few Pigments
03-22-2005, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Mikey
But now we must not enter a debate.
Okay.

Anita Murphy
03-22-2005, 10:09 PM
Wasn't it all about style - everyone looked the same. But oh what technique! You can't help but admire it even if you don't like the paintings themselves.

Let you off today Mikey but it will be a long night on this chair!
KA :D

laketrees
03-23-2005, 03:45 AM
She just looks like a truly awful little girl.
Oh dear....Mikey....and I was looking forward to seeing the next stage.. :crying: ....Ahh ......I'm sure you'll fix her up... :)
You guys weren't debating in here ...earlier were you??....tsk...tsk :D :D
cheers kim

Mikey
03-23-2005, 05:23 AM
Hi Kim, WB's litle girl may have been praying, but mine was apparently thinking up her next little prank.

present, can you really imagine peasant children who laboured hard and often went hungry with such refined sensibilties. But yes, Bouguerau seems to have brought technique to it's full height. Looking at the close up files he often seems not to have blended the paint, but has somehow hidden the brushmarks. At other times, say in the clothes his brushwork is quite loose and very visible. Again, how does he get that texture in the skin. In the highlights I can only imagine layers of paint, often opaque with underlayers breaking through.

Mikey

Mikey
03-23-2005, 07:35 AM
I've at least improved this enough to show you now. Otherwise I'm working on it. So any comments, please do.

Mikey

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Mar-2005/28043-Bougie_Wougie_2.jpg

Mikey
03-23-2005, 12:13 PM
Those subtle colours always looking so clean. Sigh!!! This is a very stretching experience. Whatever happens the learning will have been tremendous. I'm not half way there yet.

Mikey

ps. Now I look at it on the screen, the green isn't that strong at all.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Mar-2005/28043-Bougie_Wougie_3.jpg

Anita Murphy
03-23-2005, 08:10 PM
I think she has Lady Diana eyes at the moment - that butter-wouldn't-melt-in-my-mouth look! I'm not sure you have the head tilted quite enough and a little too much shadow on the neck. Lips need to be a touch more like a rosebud - she looks a bit like shes clenching her lips a bit. Have to admit to liking it a lot as it is - Reminds me of my daughter in a tantrum at that age so it makes me smile!
Thanks for comment on my peony.

laketrees
03-23-2005, 11:58 PM
Hi Mike....like the way your heading........those eyes.... :)
cheers kim

Mikey
03-24-2005, 05:59 AM
Thanks present and Kim. This may be the hardest painting I've ever done for the flesh colours. The eyes aren't easy either.

Mikey

Mikey
03-24-2005, 08:06 AM
I've got to adapt now. I usually go for the broad sweep and gradually pull the detail in. Now I want to go for a near finish for the smaller parts and work outwards. It looks as if I'll have to start using linseed at this stage for the transitions and smoothness.

Mikey

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Mar-2005/28043-Bougie_Wougie_4_cu.jpg

Gilberte
03-24-2005, 08:48 AM
Hello Mikey,
Wasn't in the WIP forum for a few days I think so I'm late ... but "bon courage" my friend, you're really up to something here ...
Ciao !

Mikey
03-24-2005, 09:42 AM
Many thanks for encouraging Gilberte. I've posted this so you can see the difference now I'm using linseed and also so you can see the old darks before I cover them. I'm punching up the contrast now.

Mikey

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Mar-2005/28043-Bougie_Wougie_5.jpg

Mikey
03-24-2005, 11:30 AM
I'm still trying to figutre how WB gets the natural skin colour look.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Mar-2005/28043-Bougie_Wougie_6.jpg

Gilberte
03-25-2005, 03:43 AM
Glazes and glazes perhaps ? :o

A Few Pigments
03-25-2005, 04:26 AM
Titian used to talk about doing 30 to 40 glazes on every painting, but then what else did he have to do. He didn't have cable TV.

Mikey
03-25-2005, 05:19 AM
Hi Gilberte and Bruce. I've read that Bouguereau never used glazes for flesh, but did for say folds in garments. I usually do much the same, say a rich Ultramarine, or Alizarin over Cadmium Red. You might be interested in this link Bruce. I'll have to get round to glazing in the shadow areas of a face for modelling and giving a bit of extra colour. I normally get too impatient to see the painting finished.

An interesting point here Bruce, Bougie used siccatives so that the oil paint practically dried like acrylics, but I cannot believe he acheived those transitions with some secret method.
http://www.mauigateway.com/~donjusko/Bouguereau.htm

Mikey

Mikey
03-25-2005, 11:18 AM
It could be that my greenish underpainting keep on showing through here. Glazing may be the answer, or letting the paint dry well enough before continuing. Either way I learning a lot here. I don't think the nose is too long but it does appear to be so. The mouth still has lots of work to be done on it, and she looks much older than Bougie's little girl.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Mar-2005/28043-Bougie_Wougie_7.jpg

Anita Murphy
03-25-2005, 12:48 PM
You are right that she looks older. Her head isn't tilted enough Mikey - I think that changes the expression in some way - the extra angle just makes her look that much coyer. Sorry to be picky! She still looks sulky!!!!! Little girls seem to have total mastership over sulkiness!
The eyes are great - Especially the left one (as we look at it)

Mikey
03-25-2005, 01:03 PM
This one is a bit of a problem as I'm taking it directly off the screen. The Magenta ink ran out, so the printer doesn't work. I've still got lots to do and her left eye is just one of the things. Now would you believe I put the correct colour down according to what I see close-up, but overall it's completely wrong. It's back to Burnt Sienna underpaintings for me. I suppose it just isn't possible to get the colour we see on the screen, at least not with this kind of thing.

Mikey

Anita Murphy
03-25-2005, 03:12 PM
Mikey don't forget that a picture will never look the same on two monitors - what you see is not necessarily what we see - the colours are notoriously unfaithful to the original!

Mikey
03-25-2005, 05:43 PM
It is a real problem and I suppose I'd have to sit by the actual painting in the right kind of light. I wanting to get to Birminghamm, UK, to see Charity, our one Bougeureau that I know of in this country.

Mikey

laketrees
03-26-2005, 12:45 AM
Hi Mikey.....the features are looking great.... :clap: ....the skin has changed colour so it's hard to tell.....you've captured the complexion of a child's skin really well...delicate and slightly transluscent...cheers kim

Mikey
03-26-2005, 08:51 AM
Thanks Kim, I've put it on the main forum now, for better or for worse. OK, it's not rright, but it's be good to do.

Mikey