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View Full Version : I'm Trying eBay Again...PLEASE tell me what you think.


hairballsdotcom
12-05-2001, 10:55 PM
After the total failure of my first efforts to sell prints on eBay some months ago, I decided to try it again. I took a lot of the points discussed here on WetCanvas and tried to apply them as I created my auction pages.

I would REALLY appreciate any feedback from you seasoned eBay art sellers! Are my titles good? Is the information on the page 'informative' and 'friendly' enough, is it clear that these are prints but not commercial reproductions, etc...

You can find my listings by searching for HAIRBALLS (interestingly one other listing using that in the title) OR go to my "ME" page at
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/cat-artist/

Thank You Thank You :D

Sumafra
12-05-2001, 11:38 PM
Hi Lori Lee,

I checked your auctions and see that you have 3 bids. One of them is mine by the way (sufram). I just love that picture. (PS: this is my FIRST bid ever on Ebay. Hope I win it).

Anyway, you did a great job of your listings, very professional. Congratulations. Sounds friendly and professional.

I have a couple of questions and I'm going to email you with them.

Again, congrats.

:clap:

kjsspot
12-06-2001, 12:00 AM
I have one point that trips me up. It sounds to me like you are using doing baby glycee's, the ones from a printer using the archival inks. While I have no problem with prints being made this way, and plan on doing them myself in the future, I don't think they are comparable to a hand pulled litho. Those are considered "original reproductions" where as a baby gilcee is not.

Now, most of the people on ebay probably won't know diddly about this, but you never know. Personally, I'd drop that line and just state that they are prints made with archival inks. JHMO

You cats, BTW, are precious! =)

CarlyHardy
12-06-2001, 01:31 AM
The cat faces are wonderful! Your auctions look great. I have to agree about the confusion over prints...repros...hand-pulled...etc.
You might want to set up a page separately from your description to show the process you use more clearly to create your prints. You could put a link in your descriptions to that one page on your site which is legal with ebay rules since you will be using it to clarify the process used to create your work. You can have other links on the page to your index or home page for your site...so that would be a plus taking viewers to your site.
carly

hairballsdotcom
12-06-2001, 02:00 AM
Originally posted by kjsspot
I have one point that trips me up. It sounds to me like you are using doing baby glycee's, the ones from a printer using the archival inks. While I have no problem with prints being made this way, and plan on doing them myself in the future, I don't think they are comparable to a hand pulled litho. Those are considered "original reproductions" where as a baby gilcee is not.


A giclee IS an original print if the art ONLY exists as a digital file. If there is an original (painting or whatever) that file was SCANNED from then NO, its not an original print, its a reproduction of the original.

My images exist ONLY as a digital file. Yes, I use photography in the beginning, but how many artist DON't use photos to paint from?

Now you might argue, well if the original is a FILE then the prints are reproductions BUT that would be like saying the litho plate IS the original and hand pulled lithos are no more than reproductions of the plate....see the thinking here?

I'd really like to discuss this further. This is such a grey area -- and with digital being the 'new kid on the block' its difficult to get people to understand what its all about.

This is the way I view my work....
My images do not exist anywhere other than the computer file. These are NOT reproduction prints of a scan of an original, these are ORIGINAL PRINTS I make myself comparable to hand-pulled artist's prints.

I certainly welcome others opinions -- its fun to be on the cutting edge BUT its also very frustrating. I been battling the uncertainties of digital imaging in the photography and fine art world for 10 years. I long to be able to tell someone -- its an oil, its a watercolor, its a pastel and they would automatically KNOW what I meant. Maybe I should switch back to my old style of painting in acrylic -- Naaaahhhh:p

hairballsdotcom
12-06-2001, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by CHClements
The cat faces are wonderful! Your auctions look great. I have to agree about the confusion over prints...repros...hand-pulled...etc.
You might want to set up a page separately from your description to show the process you use more clearly to create your prints. You could put a link in your descriptions to that one page on your site which is legal with ebay rules since you will be using it to clarify the process used to create your work. You can have other links on the page to your index or home page for your site...so that would be a plus taking viewers to your site.
carly

Thanks Carly -- excellent idea about a separate page. I just wish it wasn't this difficult. Whatever happened to -- you either like the art or you don't -- you buy the art or you don't --

Too bad its not that simple anymore...or maybe it never was and I'm just remembering wrong.

Sumafra
12-06-2001, 02:08 AM
You're right Lori Lee. Most people won't understand what it is you do. It's a new form of art. Do you use a photo program and make adjustments that way? I have to confess I don't know anything about it either, but I know that I like them.

hairballsdotcom
12-06-2001, 02:40 AM
Suzette -- I thought by now (10 years from when I started all this) people would 'get it'. Since so many people 'fiddle' with computer imaging and such at home, I would think there would be a better appreciation for it.

Like any artist, my creations can take hours or days and some of it (like everyones occational piece) will stew for weeks or months. My choice of media is from the need to use the tools I know best. After 25 years of commercial art (15 doing computer graphics work), I feel much more comfortable with a mouse in my hand, than a pencil.

That wasn't always the case -- I use to draw and paint a lot, but never got into selling it. I have a 4 year degree (Bachelor of Fine Arts) but thats misleading. My degree was actually in Commercial Art -- a very different area than the fine arts world. So now I'm trying not really to 'switch' to the fine art world, but to combine my Graphics world WITH my fine art side -- I think that probably shows in a lot of my pieces. I often feel I handle things TOO commercially and I should be more spontaneous instead slaving for hours over a piece trying to get it perfect.

I would prefer that art NOT be judged on how, when, or why its made. But on the beauty and meaning of it to the viewer. I know this is unrealistic and I certainly have learned to do my utmost to captilize on peoples need to know the who, what, when, where, and why -- especialy the "why". With most of my cat art I write a little story about the cat or what sparked my creativity. Those stories get a lot of comments! People REALLY like them. I've never been one to be "up close and personal", but it seems to be a must when you're promoting your own art and yourself.

My next career move will be into writing...ha!:p

kildaire
12-06-2001, 03:45 AM
i had a look at the cats and thought they were lovely.
keep going on ebay you have good times and bad times, it has been very quiet for me so im giving it a rest.


lovely cats

meaowww!!

blondheim12
12-06-2001, 10:27 AM
I put five small paintings on ebay last Sunday. I thought I would sell older paintings that way. I don't think it's going to work out. I think I did a poor job of listing them. They are not easy to find and I did not have good titles either. I am used to not titling my work, putting the location where I am painting instead. Next time I will list them under oil paintings,plein air, regional, etc. I'm afraid that people have a very hard time finding them because there are so many listings. Ebay is very confusing to me. I guess I will try a couple of more times but having had no bids this time I amn not hopeful for success.
Love,
Linda

hairballsdotcom
12-06-2001, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by blondheim12
I think I did a poor job of listing them. They are not easy to find and I did not have good titles either.......Ebay is very confusing to me. I guess I will try a couple of more times but having had no bids this time I amn not hopeful for success.Linda -- Having used eBay for several years for selling odds and ends (not art) I had a feel for how eBay worked in general. BUT that last time when I listed prints (several months ago) I was astounded I got no bids.

After reading all the tips here on WetCanvas and doing some research on my own I hope this time will be better, and they already are since I now have bids on 5 of 15 listings. Since I have no reserve, I consider those prints ARE sold.

I am amazed that one of them is over $26! This bothers me a little since I will list this on my own gallery site for a maximum of $35 (and that would include shipping). It gives me a creapy feeling that maybe they aren't reading the description right or something -- oh well, if the buyer has any questions, they should email before bidding guess.

Keep trying Linda, and if you haven't already, look at all the great tips and discussions about eBay here on WetCanvas -- it really helped me a lot.

hairballsdotcom
12-06-2001, 11:39 AM
In my listing I did not put the exact dimensions of the art (an oversite - duh, and then I copied and pasted for each additional listing.) Instead I did this...

This is an open-edition artist's print that fits a standard 8" x 10" frame and mat.

I need opinions...How do you interpret the above statement? What conclusion do you come to as to the size of the art?

Sumafra
12-06-2001, 02:01 PM
Lori Lee, you now have bids on 6 pieces, you're doing very well. I have bid again to up my maximum bid, just to be safe. This is kind of fun, I have never bid before, but now that I have, I really want that picture.
(PS: I hope I didn't offend you with all the questions I sent you...:( )

hairballsdotcom
12-06-2001, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Sumafra
Lori Lee, you now have bids on 6 pieces, you're doing very well. I have bid again to up my maximum bid, just to be safe. This is kind of fun, I have never bid before, but now that I have, I really want that picture.
(PS: I hope I didn't offend you with all the questions I sent you...:( ) I grew up going to live autions with my dad -- estate auctions, livestock autions, surplus auctions -- I absolutely love the excitement of them. My husband and I even buy our cars at STATE auctions! I do the bidding, my husband just sits there ;) .
eBay buying can be VERY addictive and with millions of auctions everyday, there is ANYTHING YOU WANT...almost.

You ABSOLUTELY HAVE NOT OFFENDED ME. I LOVE it when people bring up different points of view. Many of us get stuck in our own little world and have no idea what the rest of the world is thinking. We NEED to know so we can grow and improve ourselves.

I will however debate issues (sometimes just for the fun of it). I seldom ever back down from a challenge, nor do I get offended easily -- my husband says I love a fight :evil: ...well in a sense I do if it is productive.

If at times my 'rebuttles' sound defensive, that is not my intention -- I'm just stating my point of view hoping to stimulate more conversation from others. If I'm mad, hurt or otherwise offended, believe me, I WILL let it be known:D But THANKS for asking! This all really gets my blood pumping -- in a GOOD WAY.

tammy
12-06-2001, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by hairballsdotcom


I am amazed that one of them is over $26! This bothers me a little since I will list this on my own gallery site for a maximum of $35 (and that would include shipping). It gives me a creapy feeling that maybe they aren't reading the description right or something -- oh well, if the buyer has any questions, they should email before bidding guess.

.
Are you saying that you are suprised at the 26.00 b/c it is cheaper than you expect or do you mean surprised because it is possible beginning to go higher than what you expect and that they are not reading the description to be sure that they know what they are getting?

If the 26.00 seems to cheap, remember on eBay everyone is looking for a bargain! :D

Also I don't know anything about prints but looking at it another way a file on the computer could be considered as software or transitant and is not hardware or hardcopy until actually printed.
So therefore after printed they become an original because they are the actual hard copy of a transitant file. LOL
Guess you can tell I'm so computer minded.

hairballsdotcom
12-06-2001, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by tammy
If the 26.00 seems to cheap, remember on eBay everyone is looking for a bargain! :D No, I'm surprised because its so high because when I put it up for sale on my own website, I'll probably only put $25-$35 on it and that will include postage...and yes, I'm concerned that they've read something wrong, or missinterpreted (sp?) something. Just my "first art sales on eBay jitters" probably.
Originally posted by tammy
Also I don't know anything about prints but looking at it another way a file on the computer could be considered as software or transitant and is not hardware or hardcopy until actually printed.
So therefore after printed they become an original because they are the actual hard copy of a transitant file. LOL
Guess you can tell I'm so computer minded. Sounds good to me :D

kjsspot
12-06-2001, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by hairballsdotcom
A giclee IS an original print if the art ONLY exists as a digital file.

Ahhhh yeah. I didn't think about that aspect. You're right. It really IS a grey area. Although I also understand about the artistic side to it. I'm not one of those that disputes that fact.

hairballsdotcom
12-08-2001, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by kjsspot


Ahhhh yeah. I didn't think about that aspect. You're right. It really IS a grey area. Although I also understand about the artistic side to it. I'm not one of those that disputes that fact. Thanks :D -- I'm excited you saw my point (many people never do). After spending 6 hours yesterday and a couple of hours today just recalibrating and adjusting my prints for color after upgrading to a new version of software, I was about ready to chuck it all! And they're still not quite "there".

ANY little thing can suddenly give you color problems, so its not as simple as "once you have it all set up for a print you never have to do anything to them again". HA! its constant maintainence! When you up grade software, upgrade an operating system, change monitors, get a new computer, get a new printer, somtime EVEN just changing the color cartridge will cause a color shift -- ahhhh it makes me tired to think about all the hours I've spent getting these prints printed to the quality I want them to be and NONE of those hours have anything to do with creativity!

Just had to get that off my chest. It drives me nuts dealing with the color on these computers/printers.

Noble
12-09-2001, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by hairballsdotcom


Now you might argue, well if the original is a FILE then the prints are reproductions BUT that would be like saying the litho plate IS the original and hand pulled lithos are no more than reproductions of the plate....see the thinking here?

I'd really like to discuss this further. This is such a grey area -- and with digital being the 'new kid on the block' its difficult to get people to understand what its all about.

[snip]
I certainly welcome others opinions -- its fun to be on the cutting edge BUT its also very frustrating. I been battling the uncertainties of digital imaging in the photography and fine art world for 10 years. I long to be able to tell someone -- its an oil, its a watercolor, its a pastel and they would automatically KNOW what I meant. Maybe I should switch back to my old style of painting in acrylic -- Naaaahhhh:p

The difference between the digital print and a hand pulled print is that digital prints are essentially identical to each other, whereas the hand pulled prints have variations that can be controlled by the artist. In an edition, sometimes the later numbers are "better" than the earlier ones because the artist tuned the inking, pressure colors etc as he/she went along.

Of course, I'm not a printer but that is what I've gleaned from others that do that type of art. Anyway, I think the trouble is psychological, once you've done the initial work, it is a "print" click away from x number of "copies", regardless where your "plate" is or wherever. People have computers and print every day, vs having a lithostone, brayers, presses etc. So, this is simply a fact of life that this kind of technology is *very* pervasive and people are comfortable with it. This reduces the mystique around the process and thus puts downward pressure on your prices and the ability to sell the prints.

If you were famous like Picasso or something, then people would probably not care so much. With all due respect, a high school student could be trained to print a digital image of Picasso (or yours) just as effectively as you could print them. So, after you have created the file, the method of reproduction takes you completely out of the loop. This I think is the key difference between the "hand pulled" print idea and the commercial reproduction process.

How does your printing process make for unique differences *between* prints of the same piece? How does your skill as an artist put your "signature" on *each* print, vs the original work.
That is, if I have a print of your work x, how will it measurably differ from someone elses print of your same work x?

With hand pulled prints, each print is fairly unique and the artist can control the differences *and* some variations between prints the artist cannot control too!

Ok, enough rambling. Your imagery is cool and I applaud your efforts to use technology and new media in a creative way. As I see it, you are putting yourself in the position of attempting to shift the paradigm of the art public which is no easy task. My best wishes to you and your efforts!

hairballsdotcom
12-09-2001, 01:43 PM
Thanks Noble for your thoughts -- I'll agree I have a little trouble with the "unique factor" too. Yes, prints from a inkjet printer can be almost exactly alike, except when you have all this color shifting I mentioned before.

I just don't know what the answer is. These are not mass produced, but I will agree they are not "exactly like" hand-pulled either. I guess thats why I stated "comparable to hand-pulled", and don't actually call them hand-pulled (a fine line of distinction, but helps me feel better about it).

I will however fight tooth and nail NOT to have them called "reproductions" versus "prints". Since 'repro' indicates there is an orginal -- and in this case there is not.

Either way I'm not really sure it makes much difference to my target audience. Most cat collectors know little about these things and by the time I get into the big leagues of art collectors (see, I CAN have positive thinking) hopefully most of this will be worked out and everything will 'have its place' and new terminology will have developed.

Till then I just have to make it up as I go and try to keep up with everyone elses thinking on the subject.

Sumafra
12-09-2001, 02:24 PM
Lori Lee, your auctions are going so well. Your siamese cat is at $127. Wow, way to go. I'm happy for you.

kjsspot
12-09-2001, 02:24 PM
OMG Lori!!! You're Siamese is now at $127!!!! WTG!!!! WOOHOOO!!!!! =)