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Roan
02-16-2001, 06:30 AM
Has anyone read this book? What do you think of it? Are there any parts of it you don't agree with?

I have it and am in the middle of reading it. Want to get other opinions so I don't absorb the wrong info.

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<FONT face="Script MT Bold"><FONT COLOR="#AB4835"><FONT size="5">Roan</FONT s></FONT c></FONT f>
<FONT COLOR="#8A1010">Call caraid tadhal tric, 's call caraid tadhal ainmig.</FONT c>
-- <FONT size="1">Friends are lost by calling often, and by calling seldom.</FONT s>
RoanStudio.com (http://RoanStudio.com) &lt;-- pastel open stock vendor sources & reviews!

tammy
02-16-2001, 08:04 PM
I've got it but I'm not reading it clear through, I use it for reference instead.

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Don't worry, its gonna be all right....
Tammy's Home for Artists (http://tammy.artistnation.com)

Roan
02-17-2001, 08:23 PM
Really? I find this book absolutely fascinating. The parts about which colors absorb which confuses me a tad and I'm finding it hard to grasp, but I think it's partially because it's such a totally new concept to me.

Fascinating stuff. I wish we could hear from someone else too http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/frown.gif

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<FONT face="Script MT Bold"><FONT COLOR="#AB4835"><FONT size="5">Roan</FONT s></FONT c></FONT f>
<FONT COLOR="#8A1010">Call caraid tadhal tric, 's call caraid tadhal ainmig.</FONT c>
-- <FONT size="1">Friends are lost by calling often, and by calling seldom.</FONT s>
RoanStudio.com (http://RoanStudio.com) <-- pastel open stock vendor sources & reviews!

[This message has been edited by Roan (edited February 17, 2001).]

LarrySeiler
02-18-2001, 08:55 PM
Color Theory books are many....and often an interesting read. Some are adament about one or another they adapt.

I often have exchanges with a few that I won't mention by name that like to correct my wrong or outdated view, but I always invite them to choose 3 or 4 of my landscape paintings out of my online gallery and tell me how their "right" theory would improve my work as dramatically as their antics suggest.

In physics...there is a definition that says, "it works...because it works"

Any theory that systematically assists in unlocking mysteries for you, and gives you the possibility to get a handle on color such that in time the understanding of it becomes more a reflex is great!

When you stand before nature and take the sun's light as a challenge, limited by time...you have little time to sort thru head knowledge and argue with yourself. Such a time is a time to engage and experience the magic.

This comes after many paintings. I often refer to the idea one must paint 120 bad paintings to know something of painting. All sorts of thought processes, the attempt to recall, the demand to execute are stresses that in time fall in line. When that happens for you...you'll find a resolve that would prefer not to hear new theories, if you know what I mean. When things are working...new ideas are like unwanted voices, or headnoise that you opt to block out. Its not so much close mindedness as it is having chosen what you will listen to and follow, and once having done so committing yourself to it.

Its like playing great tennis. Most people hit the ball once across the net...if lucky, a return of serve...and rarely, a third hit back. Most time is spent walking and retrieving balls.

This is because not enough skills have been honed to hit balls on both the forehand and backhand side. Until such skills are developed, other things like strategies can never really be entertained or put into practice. Some play tennis to exercise...but good tennis players exercise in order to play tennis. Once skills are down...it becomes more like chess. A head game. Out thinking and out manuevering the opponent. Thinking not about hitting the ball only, but thinking two or three shots ahead so as to position yourself on the court and anticipate how and when you'll win that point.

Painting is a lot like that. A certain amount of skills reached, opens doors that beginners and intermediates are not aware of. A place where instincts and gut reaction are a whole other world.

Experience anticipates a subtle movement of the sun will modify colors, and bounce light differently, or winds carrying down a valley are likely to change. Such winds could darken a spread of trees, since the leaves would no longer reflect the light of the sun, but shadows.

Color theory is a bit like a large ten floor building with a maze of accesses and rooms. One may need in a hurry to get to a particular place...and those accustomed to one route use it, while others work out another and find a shortcut. In the end, sharing discovers not so much great differences...as all routes that succeed ultimate end up at the same place, but some routes work better because of the entree door you walked thru.

I know...all sounds crazy, but I'm trying to simplify what has driven a gazillion authors to fill up our art shelves with!

peace,

Larry

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The Artsmentor

"Painting is easy when you don't know how, but very difficult when you do!" Edgar Degas

tahlequah
02-18-2001, 09:25 PM
Larry,
I love the way you answer these questions. You have a way of putting your ideas across that is so easy to understand.

Just wanted you to know that you are appreciated!

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Jo Anna

Roan
02-19-2001, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by lseiler:
Color Theory books are many....and often an interesting read. Some are adament about one or another they adapt.

So I noticed :P

I often have exchanges with a few that I won't mention by name that like to correct my wrong or outdated view . . .

Okay, what IS your wrong or outdated view? I'm curious.



In physics...there is a definition that says, "it works...because it works" . . .

Sure, hrm, lemme snip and get to the meat of why I'm reading 'cause I KNOW you can help me with this, Larry :P

I know...all sounds crazy, but I'm trying to simplify what has driven a gazillion authors to fill up our art shelves with!


Okay, tell me, please, how do you explain it to your students without confusing them? Or don't you? I fully agree with the experimentation and learning process, but a little theory provides a great basis to start on and can shorten the learning curve a lot.

This is one reason why I've been reading up on it. To put into words that which I know. I've never mentioned it but I occassionally help some of my neighbors' kids with their artwork. You know, encouragement, advice, some supplies I no longer use. When the kids see my stuff, they get bowled over and intimidated. Heck, at their age I would too. Their grades range from grade 6 up to grade 8 or so.

The kid I'm currently helping is a treasure. He is SO enthusiastic and always shows me his latest drawing or painting and asks me for advice on how to make it better. He's got a lot of talent, too. I've been pushing him to develop his drawing more and he's been working on that, but in the meantime he's just full of questions about colors.




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<FONT face="Script MT Bold"><FONT COLOR="#AB4835"><FONT size="5">Roan</FONT s></FONT c></FONT f>
<FONT COLOR="#8A1010">Call caraid tadhal tric, 's call caraid tadhal ainmig.</FONT c>
-- <FONT size="1">Friends are lost by calling often, and by calling seldom.</FONT s>
RoanStudio.com (http://RoanStudio.com) &lt;-- pastel open stock vendor sources & reviews!

LarrySeiler
02-19-2001, 10:38 AM
Thanks Jo Anna....for the comments.

You know...sitting "saved" in my computer is a long attempt at putting together my own book, but as my wife would point out, I've spent so much time online, that my book has probably been written several times over. I should just go back, and retrieve posts, and assemble them as something to publish! Ssheesh!

Well...Roan, there has been a lot of discussion of late of color as understood thru light, prisms. Of not three primary colors but five.

I have kinda an old adage that I rely upon in more spiritual matters, but it pertains to other things at times and says, "if its new...its not true, if its true...its not new!"

Artists have used the three color primary basic color wheel for centuries. We call many of them masters. Suddenly...anyone who uses it still is outdated, or worse a charlatan that is keeping others in the dark.

I use and teach the basic color wheel, with one exception- the additional idea of these basic colors existing in a warm and a cool variation. With that exception, I can imitate any color that the other theorists mix. They will insist that in a round about way, I used their system...however, I maintain, "why add one more theory and complicate things?"

If we can think of art elements being line, shape, form, balance, texture...etc., why can we not think of color having its elements, such as warm and cool, neutral, complimentary, etc?

Technically...a primary is a color that cannot be mixed by two other colors. Some would argue "green" one of the primaries, however...any number of existing blues and existing yellows I have used over the years has been able to make whatever green I have needed. There is one exception to date, and that is "Thalo Green"...which I have just purchased, but...I am convinced there is yet a right yellow to be mixed with the right blue to duplicate it.

I purchased the Thalo Green to shortcut my having to find this right yellow and blue, and get on with a particular painting at the moment, however...in theory green is mixed.

Being mixed...it is not a primary in my book.

I also personally and firmly believe that pigments operate differently than does light thru a prism. Our challenge as visual artists is to create that illusion of the splendor nature provides us...however, nature uses light...we use colored ground dirt suspended in a medium/binder.

What light will do mixed together..is not the same as pigment.

The simple basic three color primary colorwheel is only a basis...a foundation to work off of. You will get various results from different kinds of reds...different kinds of blues and yellows. This doesn't mean the 3 color system doesn't work, but that our sense of it will be better understood in terms of warm and cool.

Opposites. Warm and cools. These are things as an art instructor I have found even a kindergardner grasps, but the effects of light thru a prism???

Other than illustration demands and hurried assignments, I have found I no longer need black. I will defend that black is popular among portraitists and always has been, and our own Milt is a great painter using such.

However...standing before nature. No. I'll say instead as Van Gogh would, "interpenetrating reality" in nature, and responding directly I see light bounding even into the shadows. The color black in atmospheric light even appears alive, and shows varying values and hints of bounced color.

I find when I use black, I have more or less made the decision to symbolize my darks and ignore them...rather than pay attention to them. On the other hand...I have found if I hold a hint of cool value to my darks, placed next to my lighter warms...the darks cause such a color to sing for two reasons- 1) light versus the dark; 2) the warm versus the cool; I thus attain to have killed two birds with one stone. It creates more dynamics...more drama, and my darks make my existing colors more alive.

So...quite simply- I use a warm and cool variation of each of the three basic primaries. I use white to tint or add opacity.

Larry



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The Artsmentor

"Painting is easy when you don't know how, but very difficult when you do!" Edgar Degas