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View Full Version : Show us your palette colors and tell us why: 2001-2005


Phyllis Franklin
02-12-2001, 01:00 PM
I've been thinking a great deal lately about palettes and why we make the choices we make. I thought it would be interesting to talk about our palettes and maybe show how we set up our palettes. Maybe we could throw in a bit about why we organize our palettes they way we do.

<center> Also </center>

I've been in search of information on Ruben's palette. Does anyone have a graphic they could share or list the colors?

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Phy...llis Franklin
Create every day
Blackberry Ridge Studio & Art Gallery (http://prf.artistnation.com) &lt;----my shameless plug.
Click here to sign up for 1 of the Community Projects! (http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/Projects/) Another shamless plug.

Ruth
02-13-2001, 06:16 PM
Acrylics:

Titanium White
Quinacridone magenta
Phthalocyanine blue
Transparent yellow

These colors fit in the CYM triad instead of the RYB. They are more like the colors of ink used in color printers. You can mix gorgeous colors, luscious greens, oranges, purples. They're transparent and very strong colors and I love 'em. These are the ones I take with me when traveling. Nothing else is needed.

Oils:

Titanium white
Cadmium lemon
Cadmium yellow
Yellow ochre
Cadmium red medium
Alizarin crimson
Cobalt blue
Ultramarine blue
Black

Very basic and simple. I really don't use the yellow ochre much, and try to stay away from earth colors because I tend to get muddy with them. A mixture of cad. red. med. and cobalt blue makes a nice brown. Yellows mixed with the blues and also with black makes a variety of greens.

Ruth

Yorky
02-13-2001, 06:33 PM
Good topic, Phyllis,

I use W7N Artists W/C pans as follows:
Cerulean Blue
Cobalt Blue
Winsor Blue Red Shade
French Ultramarine Blue
Prussian Blue
Indigo

Cad Yellow Light
Lemon Yellow
Cad Yellow Deep
Yellow Ochre
Raw Sienna
Raw Umber

Light Red
Cad Red
Crimson Alizarin
Burnt Seienna
Burnt Umber
Paynes Grey (for dark greens)

My most used pans seem to be Winsor Blue, Yellow Ochre, Burnt Sienna, Light Red in that order. I suppose I am mixing transparent and opaque colours, but it works for me!

Doug

EquusAlba
02-14-2001, 09:10 PM
Oh, dear - I'm afraid I don't really have a set palette. Maybe it comes from being a pastellist first, but I tend to grab for different colors for different projects - some will have more muted choices, some brighter, etc., depending on what effect I want to achieve.

Am I alone in this approach?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/confused.gif

Judith


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Judith Northwood
Northwood Studios (http://www.northwood.org/studios)

kayemme
02-15-2001, 03:32 AM
judith,

i'm kinda the same way as you are - the palette depends pretty much on the piece, but it most always includes:

raw umber
burnt umber
raw sienna
burnt sienna
indian red
cad yellow med
titanium white
prussian blue
sap green

i mostly mix my other hues with those colours, but sometimes i get a little hair and lay down something else.

k

EquusAlba
02-17-2001, 02:51 PM
Thanks, K ! Your words do make me feel better. So many references talk about how you need to use just a few colors and use them all the time. I don't see the world that way, so I struggle with the process of setting up 'a palette'.

It blew me away to open the copy of the Artist's Magazine that just arrived and see an article about varying the core primaries used in the palette for achieving substantially different effects. What timing! It's silly of me, but hearing from you and then the article makes me feel a lot more confident about approaching my art this way. Aren't we silly to be so afraid of doing something 'wrong'?

:^)

Judith


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Judith Northwood
Northwood Studios (http://www.northwood.org/studios)

kayemme
02-18-2001, 03:55 PM
judith,

i think that one might have a set palette for a series or something, but it seems silly to me to have one palette for everything.. that sort of inflexibility seems nauseating to me..

however, i find that i generally paint with the base colours above, which might be considered to some a standard palette. i like these colours, AND they mix nicely with other colours, but i'm certainly not going to avoid a colour because it doesn't "match" my palette.

as far as finding a specific palette, i have never looked for one. if i'm doing a practice copy, let's use reubens, then what i'm gonna do is look at the piece and copy it. since it's a practice, i won't care what it looks like completely because i'm testing out colour mixes and style. it may be EASIER to have a predetermined palette, but who wants EASY? http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

and yes, i do think it's silly, and not beneficial to be afraid of doing something wrong. if you mess up (what is mess up anyway) then just do another one. if you learned from your "mistake" then it's not a mistake at all.

see you around http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif
k

Keith Russell
02-18-2001, 11:42 PM
Greetings:

Badger Air-Opaque...

Black
Prussian Blue
Blue
Turquoise
Violet
Purple
Magenta
Crimson
Scarlet
Orange
Yellow-Orange
Yellow
Yellow-Green
Light Green
Green
Aqua
Chrome-Oxide Green
Sepia
Brown
Tan
White

Golden Airbrush Colours...
--OPAQUE

Black
Indigo
Pthalo Blue (Red Shade)
Violet
Quinacridone Red
Orange
Yellow
Aqua
Brown

--TRANSPARENT

Smoke Gray
Pthalo Blue (Green Shade)
Violet
Bright Red
Bright Yellow
Pthalo Green (Blue Shade)

Just thought it might be fun to see some different colour names listed!

Keith.



------------------
Keith Russell
Synthetic Sky Studios
Science Fiction Fine Art
[email protected]

llis
08-03-2001, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Einion
I use the twin-primary system, which if you're unfamiliar with it, is basically centred around two of each primary, one cool and the other warm, which allows you to mix clean secondaries (or the reverse if that's what you want). With the addition of black and white this forms the minimum palette you can mix a wide variety of hues from.

I won't get into discussing the pros and cons of different palette systems here, as that will no doubt be covered very comprehensively in the other thread I mentioned above. Suffice it to say that this system works very well on the whole, with the advantage that the underlying principle is fundamentally very simple and gives very predictable mixing results. I should add that, as much as possible, my palette uses opaque colours as I don't have much need for true glazing effects.

FWIW here's my palette with a brief description of each pigment and how I might use it. Following that, my recommendations for alternatives and other hue positions I don't use that others might need. Except where they appear in my palette, I won't bother mentioning again any of the colours listed before.

White
Titanium White, PW6
Finity
Like most people I use more white than any other colour, I use Titanium White exclusively as I only really need an opaque white. As I said before, the whitest white. It is the basis of my caucasian skintones and of course I use it to lighten just about every other colour.

Black
Mars Black, PBk11
Finity
I use black quite a bit in my work so I use a selection for various effects. Mars Black was the only one I used for years. The Winsor & Newton example I have is much wamer than other blacks and slightly lighter-valued. I use this for mixing ethnic skintones where it forms a green with Yellow Ochre than neutralises and darkens Red Oxide.

Bone Black, PBk9
Liquitex
I bought this mainly to see what it was like in comparison to Mars Black. Liquitex's is fairly transparent, darker and cooler than the W&N Mars Black, a surprise since it is often noted for being a warm black. I use this most often in subtle mixes where it is easier to control than Mars Black.

Carbon Black, PBk7
Maimeri
I wanted the blackest black I could find and was pleased to find this under the wrong name supplied my Maimeri. Very black and intense, it is far more staining than either black mentioned above. I use this only for pure black touches.

Green-Yellow
Azo Yellow Light, PY3
Finity
Also called Arylide Yellow Light and Hansa Yellow Light. A bright, light yellow with a slight green bias. Mixes intense greens with Phthalocyanine Blue.

Orange-Yellow
Cadmium Yellow Medium, PY37
Finity
Cadmiums offer some of the best opaque examples in the yellows, oranges and reds. I use this mostly to lighten the cadmium reds and also to mix subdued greens

Yellow-Orange
Cadmium Orange, PO20
Liquitex High Viscosity
A bright, opaque yellow-orange. I bought this before I knew better and nearly never touch it - an almost indistinguishable hue can be mixed from Cadmium Yellow Medium and Cadmium Red Light if you want to save the hefty pricetag.

Orange-Red
Cadmium Red Light, PR108
Finity
An intense, fiery orange-red, it mixes superb oranges with Cadmium Yellow Medium. Also useful for subduing a range of greens, mixing very muted violets and indispensable as the basis of caucasian flesh mixes.

Cadmium Red Medium, PR108
Finity
Also an orange-red, but slightly less bright and intense than the Light version, can be used in a very similar way. Again, I bought this before I knew better, I would choose either one, not both (the light probably being the most useful).

Violet-Red
Naphthol Carbamide, PR170
Finity
Often called Naphthol Crimson, this is a fairly bright red with a slight violet bias, similar to Pyrrole Red. Doesn't mix the very cleanest violets but it's fairly opaque and highly staining which makes it more useful to me than the darker-valued examples.

Violet-Blue
Ultramarine, PB29
Liquitex Medium Viscocity
The classic violet-blue pigment, dark valued and intense. An absolute must if you want to mix your violets.

Cobalt Blue, PB28
Finity
To the naked eye this is very close to a true blue but it usually has a violet bias. Not essential on the palette, but a useful medium-valued blue and easier to control in mixes than Ultramarine. Makes a lovely selection of greens with either of the two yellows mentioned above and a light olive with Yellow Ochre. Unfortunately extremely expensive.

Green-Blue
Phthalocyanine Blue GS, PB15:3
Finity
An intense, dark-valued blue useful for mixing a wide range of bright greens. Even mixed with an orange-yellow the greens are surprisingly bright. The red shade, PB15:1, has very similar handling characteristics but is violet-biased and might be useful if you want a blue of that type for glazing. As mentioned before, Winsor & Newton apparently offer the pair of Phthalo blues with the widest hue difference.

Cerulean Blue, PB35
Finity
Very useful for creating lighter mixed greens and as a sky colour. Indispensable to me as a neutraliser for caucasian fleshtones.

Blue-Green
Phthalocyanine Green BS, PB7
Finity
I think I'll take it for granted that the green I have been using for many years is actually this colour sold at the time as Viridian. An intense blue-green that mixes very clean greens and a useful complement for dark-valued reds.

Yellow-Green
Chromium Oxide Green, PG17
Liquitex Medium Viscosity
A useful medium-valued yellow-green noted for its opacity and muted character, I added this to my palette only recently. Although not the direct complement, it is very similar in value to Cadmium Red Medium so neutralises it well.

Earth colours
Yellow Ochre, PY43
Finity
A slightly neutralised medium yellow that I prefer to Mars Yellow, PY42. Also a cornerstone colour for mixing caucasian skintones for me. Also useful for mixing a wide range of muted greens.

Raw Sienna, PBr7
Finity
One of the few colours I use almost exclusively for glazing where I value its transparency and its very specific hue - a subdued yellow-orange.

Burnt Sienna, PBr7
Finity
A fairly dark, slightly neutralised red-orange noted for its transparency. I also glaze with this to some extent but use it mostly to neutralise blues, particularly Cobalt Blue.

Red Oxide, PR101
Dick Blick
An opaque, slightly neutralised, orange-red of medium value. I use this mostly for neutralising blues and for ethnic fleshtones.

Raw Umber, PBr7
Finity
I have used more than one example of this colour but I prefer examples with a slight green undertone like W&N's. I use it for warming up whites and for subduing a range of darker colours.

Burnt Umber, PBr7
Finity
This is usually the darkest of the earth colours, a deep chocolate brown sometimes with a slight violet undertone. I use this mostly for darkening Ultramarine (makes a good 'indigo') and for skintone shadows.

Alternative colours and other suggestions
Cadmium Lemon, PY35 or PY37 would make a good, slightly more opaque alternative for the green-yellow hue position.

Benzimidazolone Orange H5G, PO62
Similar to Cadmium Orange, it is slightly more transparent. Might have a place on your palette if your subject-matter calls for a lot of this hue. Like most (all?) of the benzimidazolones apparently, a very reliable colour.

Perinone Orange, PO43
Sometimes called Indo Orange Red. Can vary slightly from an almost true orange to red-orange. An intense pigment apparently, might be useful as a glazing colour in this hue position.

Benzimidazolone Orange HL, PO36
Apparently a very close match for true Vermillion if you have a need.

Anthraquinoid Red, PR177
This colour can take the place of Alizarin Crimson on the palette if you have a need for a dark-valued violet-red with superior lightfastness. Will mix excellent dark violets with Ultramarine.
Permanent Madder in the Rembrandt range is this pigment, the only supplier I am aware of for this in acrylics.

Quinacridone Carmine, PR N/A
A deep violet-red, also a very good replacement for Alizarin Crimson.

Ultramarine Violet, PV15
This is probably the best of the blue-violet pigments available today and Winsor & Newton's may be the most useful as it is lighter in value and very saturated although I can't remember if they offer this in acrylics.

Dioxazine Purple (PV23RS)
Also known as Carbazole Violet, look for the RS (red shade) if possible which is slightly more permanent. A deep, slightly unsaturated blue-violet. A nearly identical hue can be mixed from Ultramarine and one of the violet reds.

Cobalt Blue Deep, PB73
A deeper, more intense and more violet-biased pigment than the standard Cobalt Blue. Unfortunately also extremely expensive.

Green Gold, PG10
If you can find this in acrylics it is a fairly light-valued, reasonably opaque yellow-green pigment, with superb lightfastness. Might be very useful in landscape painting.

Barium Chromate Lemon, PY31
A little like Green Gold, but slightly more opaque and 'flatter' apparently. Might be useful for mixing a range of subdued lighter greens.

Hope this is helpful,
Einion

Einion
08-03-2001, 05:13 PM
Thanks Llis, beat me to it!:D

Einion

llis
08-03-2001, 05:45 PM
LOL

I read your mind. :D

TPS
08-03-2001, 11:42 PM
Here is the oils palette I most often use for my landscape paintings. The 'or' colors are alternates used depending on the situation.

Cadmium Lemon (W-N) or Hansa Yellow
Yellow Ochre or Cadmium Yellow Medium
Cadmium Red Light
Alizarin Crimson Permanent or Rose Madder
Burnt Sienna
French Ultramarine Blue
Prussian Blue or Cerulean Blue
Titanium White or Flake White

Occassionally will use Viridian Green, Cobalt Violet, Naples Yellow; these are used mainly for slightly modifying other colors rather than as base colors.

Patrick1
08-04-2001, 03:47 AM
I do landscapes. I'm a fan of the six-color split-primary (like a lot of other folks here). Here's my basic palette for oils and acrylics. It will allow mixing most colors cleanly.

-hansa yellow light or bismuth vanadate
-hansa yellow medium

-cad red med. hue
-quinacridone magenta (PY 122...one of my favorite colors)

-phathalo blue green shade
-ultramarine blue


Plus I need:

-titanium white
-burnt umber
-burnt sienna
-yellow ochre
-sap green

I used to use a lot of raw umber, but it's a very drab color which makes my oil paintings dirty-looking. Once I'm finished my tubes of oil and acrylic raw umber, I doubt I'll replace them.

On my palette, I put the highlight colors close together in a row (white, yellow, orange and red).
I also group the base/ shadow colos together (browns, blues, purple).

LarrySeiler
08-04-2001, 09:26 AM
My palette has been out there for WC'ers to scrutinize for quite awhile thru my demos. I'm like Domer. Its simple. Easy. For me, effective.

I use a warm and cool variation of each of the main primaries of the old RYB school. Acrylics and/or oils.

Plus, Titanium white, sometimes flake white...
no black

I like and add Naples Yellow, and Viridian (green) for oils or Phtalo Green for acrylics. Used to use Burnt Umber, but have no need for it anymore.

I'd rather mix my own secondaries and tertiaries as I go.

For what color I appear to lack, I use analogous and adjacent color mixtures to fool the eye to think it sees it. This forces me to be constantly thinking, and on my toes.

Larry

Midwest Painter
08-05-2001, 01:03 AM
Reds
Alizarin Crimson
Cadmium Red Light

Yellows
Cadmium Lemon
Cadmium Yellow Light

Blues
Cerulean Blue
French Ultramarine

Earths
Yellow Orche
Burnt Sienna
Terra Verte
Raw Umber
Terra Rosa

White
Titanium

Black
Ivory

Why? Because I like these colors.

Rich Williams
09-17-2001, 05:48 PM
I pre mix a pallet in a devided plastic case that I bought from a craft store used for embroidery floss (it has 17 small bins)overall about 7' x 12' with a snap lid.I put a piece of thin foam with plastic film on one side in the lid to stop spilling and paint transfer when traveling.

I pre mix my colors as follows

French U.B. 3/6 ----Aliz Crim 3/6-------- Aliz Crim
Aliz Crim 2/6 --------FUB 2/6
Raw Sien 1/6 -------Raw Sien 1/6


FUB 3/6 --------------Burnt Sien ----------New Gamb
Antwerp Blue 2/6
Cerilian Blue 1/6


Antwerp Blue 2/3----Burnt S 2/3--------- Raw Sien
Cerilian Blue 1/3 -----Hunter Gr 1/3


FUB 2/3 ----------Hunter Gr 2/3 ---Lemon Yel Hue
Hunter Gr 1/3 ---Raw Sien 1/3


I use this as a landscape pallet and mix up the colors and add water to make a strong but liquid mix(fairly thick). I add more to the mix as I use it up and if I need to because they are starting to dry up (hot weather I just put in a little more water).
With these mixes you can use them straight on dry paper,with wet in wet, or you can use a mixing tray water them down for dry brush. Have fun and experiment.

SiennaSand
10-05-2001, 09:34 PM
The palette I use for watercolor comes from my favorite teacher, it took me almost a year to understand it! (I'm slow).
His palette consists of 9 colors: 3 reds, 3 blues and 3 yellows.

He uses Winsor & Newton:
Cad. Red (med)
Alizarin Crimson
Burnt Sienna

Lemon Yellow
Cad. Yellow (med)
Raw Sienna

French Ultramarine Blue
Prussian Blue
Cobalt Blue

He has taught us how to make beautiful colors by combining two or three of the above. And not make MUD!

However, on my own, since I love flowers, I do use Opera; Bright
Violet; Quina.Rose;-- but I always make my greens from one of the above blues and yellows, frequently from prussian and lemon yellow.

Sienna

Dave Carter
10-24-2001, 01:06 PM
Midwest:Reds
Alizarin Crimson
Cadmium Red Light

Yellows
Cadmium Lemon
Cadmium Yellow Light

Blues
Cerulean Blue
French Ultramarine

Earths
Yellow Orche
Burnt Sienna
Terra Verte
Raw Umber
Terra Rosa

White
Titanium

Black
Ivory
Most of the above. I group burnt sienna with the reds and use it as such. Never tried the terras. Prussian and winsor blue sometimes appear. Once in a while I'll use winsor green and/or naples yellow, but not as much as I used to. Sap green has fallen off the list completely. Often I just grab whatever is in the box and comes to hand and let the adventure begin. Of course this does not do for commisions. Basically I use a red, blue and yellow for watercolor, adding black and white for acrylics and oils. Its the KISS method (Keep It Simple Stupid). It keeps me from depending on a particular color which I may not have (nearest art store is 50 miles one way)

belladonna
10-24-2001, 03:23 PM
I use no more than 5 tube colors for each painting. The 5 colors I use, depend on the subject matter, and may be different for each painting. I am partial to the clear, dark, transparent colors. If I start with grayed or dull color, I cannot get nice bright clear colors from them, but if I start with bright clear colors I can always gray, or dull them, mix or mute them, or lighten them as needed.

I start with one white and usually one dark brown. Then I pick from the primary and secondary colors that will give me the combinations that I want for the painting.

1 Red – Could be an opaque or transparent red, or redbrown, or an orange, or a purple. Anything with red in it. I usually pick a darker color.
1 Yellow – Could be an opaque or transparent yellow, or an ochre, or an orange, or a green. Anything with yellow in it.
1 Blue – Could be a transparent or an opaque blue, or a purple, or a green. Anything with some blue in it. I usually pick a darker color.

I want to make sure that I can make all of the colors that I want for the painting. It takes an afternoon of play with all of my paints to see how they will react together. Very important…Remember to do this in natural lighting! … Artificial light will affect the way you see your colors. I usually have a rough idea of what I need before hand, but I always test and mix first. Sometimes the paint surprises me. Sometimes it takes a while. I lay out the paints that I think will react well together and start spreading them out and mixing them on white sheets of paper. It is not important to me to match the colors in my reference photos. I often change the color of things. It is important to me that the colors I choose work well together. I dump the ones that aren’t working back in my paint drawer as they fail the testing process. I always keep the chosen test sheet with the reference photos in an envelope. That way I will know what I was using in case I have to quit for a while. I keep a separate art box for ‘work in progress’ with only the colors I am using for the current painting in it.

Here is the test pallet for my current painting using:
Titanium White, Cadmium Yellow Deep, Crimson Lake, French Ultramarine, and Burnt Umber.

I can get everything and more for the painting that I am working on now with these colors. Look at the amount and variety of colors I can get from just 5 tubes of paint! It will give the painting a very cohesive and professional look. Color composition is very important to me. I do not want it to jar or annoy the senses. I want the color to look 'right'. For a different painting I would test different colors. I don't much care for the green shown here, but I am not using green for this painting so it doesn't matter. I was looking for good flesh tones. Change the 4 colors on the right and you have a completely different pallet. Cool eh? :D (White is smeared down the left side.)

rapolina
11-23-2001, 09:37 AM
I use Winsor & Newton Artist’s watercolor colors, but I looked at other brands too.
Studing the characteristics of watercolors , I found out that they can have 4 basic properties:
 opaque
 transparent
 staining
 non-staining

Well, I hate opaque colors (like every cadmium based), so I eliminated all of them.
Then, I noticed that mixing colors can give muddy results, so I thought it could depend on the pigments contained in each color. So I eliminated every color that had more than 1 pigment; in this way mixing 3 colors means mixing just 3 pigments, and avoid the risk to mix a red containing a bit of yellow pigment with a blue to get violet, that becomes mud due to the yellow.
Then I noticed that staining and not-staining colors give different results. The first are stronger, but are not suitable for glazing (I learnt very much from “make colors sing” of J.Dobie); non staining colors are superb in backgrounds and in overlapped glazes, and to make light shadows over already painted things or to correct a hue too strong.
Putting together all above, I now have the following palette (only transparent colors)- aside I put the color index code of the pigment:

-aureoline yellow (non-staining, primary yellow) – PY 40
-resin gum yellow (non- staining orange yellow) – PY 153
-rose madder (non staining red) – NR9
-permanent rose (primary staining red) – PV19
-french ultramarine (non-staining and granulating blue) – PB 29
-cobalt blue (non-staining light blue) – PB 28
-manganese blue (non staining light blue, for mixing light and bright greens) –PB 15
-blue windsor green hue (staining phtalo blue, not properly primary, but almost) – PB 15
- lndanthrone blue (non staining, dark and neutral blue) -PB 60
-viridian (non-staining green , bluish) – PG 18
-Dick brown, (PBk6 + PR 101), in order to speed up the mixing of -browns, I noticed it gives a wonderful steel gray mixed with ultramarine.

About greens, I think that it is perhaps better to mix them instead of using those already prepared, that often look “false”.

Ciao, rapolina.
:)

belladonna
11-27-2001, 03:33 AM
rapolina - Well I feel dense...You lost me when you mentioned staining and non-staining colors... I have not heard of this before…You have put much thought into your color choices and I am interested. How do you tell staining and non-staining appart? Why do you find it important to know them and could you tell me more about the different uses for them? Tell me more... (or, should I just buy the book? heheheh)

rapolina
11-29-2001, 05:30 AM
hi belladonna and others!
i use only watercolors, then i don't know if the item is applicable to other mediums.
staining colors are those colors that dye the paper, so they cannot be washed out by clean water. they are not suitable to paint the overlapped layers of colors (glazing).
non-staining colors are those that can be erased by water from the paper, and are very suitable for glazing. they don't mix together, and each layer of overlap nonstaining color acts as a coloured glass put over the understaying color, without mixing.
Instead staining colors dye all they cover mixing phisically with the pigments already on the paper.

hope to be understanable, as I'm italian and it's a difficult matter to explain, even in my language!

ciao, :cat: rapolina.

belladonna
11-29-2001, 01:42 PM
rapolina - Ahhhh there you have it then. I missed the 'watercolor' part... now I understand… I am an oil painter so I need not worry about it and I don’t feel quite so dense for not having heard of it before. It would not apply for me. :D Thank you for the explanation.

MKathleen
11-30-2001, 12:21 PM
My Gouache Opaque Watercolor & Oil Palette Colors

Winsor & Newton Designer Gouache
DaVinci Opaque Water Color

In this order:

Permanent White
Yellow Medium
Orange
Red
Alizarin Crimson
Violet
Cobalt Blue
Ultramarine Blue
Phthalo Green
Sap Green

I prefer to mix my own earth colors

Oil Palette--Grumbacher

Titanium White
Cadmium Yellow Pale
Cadmium Red Light
Alizarine Crimson
Thio Violet (Quinacridone Magenta)
Ultramarine Blue
Thalo Green (Yellow Shade)

Best,
Kathy

Patrick1
12-21-2001, 05:41 PM
Belladonna, I appreciate you took the time to post the photo of your paint mixes. Also, you said you don't like the green you got. This is certainly not a clean green (you can't get a clean green with ultramarine blue) but this is exactly what you want for realistic foliage.

Incidentally, yesterday I was trying to see if I could come up with a substitute for sap green using cheap inorganic colours. I was hoping ultra. blue + yellow ochre would do it. Well I wanted a relatively dull green, but it was waaayyy to dull. Even duller than chromium oxide green. A very dull army green. So I'm hoping using transparent yellow oxide (similar to yellow ochre, but cleaner and transparent) will do the trick..it should make a cleaner, deeper green, but I don't have a tube of that yet.

blondheim12
12-22-2001, 04:39 PM
Blue

Thalo
Ultramarine
Currelean Light (Old Holland)

Green

Sap
viridian ( occasionally)


Yellow

naples
cad yellow medium
cad yellow light
ochre

Red

red iron oxide
cad red light
cad orange light
Old Holland Brilliant Pink(I love this color)

Payne's Grey (occasionally)
Lamp Black (occasionally)


Titanium White or Flake white
That's my basic but I don't usually use more than five or six colors at one time.


Love,
Linda

catjoe
12-28-2001, 12:30 PM
My Palette:

Winsor and Newton Watercolor

* Watercolors I use most often

Cobalt Blue
Ultramarine Blue *
Cerulean Blue
Antwerp Blue*
GreenGold
Sap Green*
Hooker's Green*
Viridian*
Aureolin
Winsor Yellow*
New Gamboge*
Brown Madder
Winsor Violet*
Payne's Gray
Perm. Alizarin Crimson*
Permanent Rose*
Winsor Red
Burnt Sienna*
Neutral Tint

Fmalo
12-30-2001, 10:15 PM
Hi folks,

I'm new to this forum. I noticed very little mention of the Quinadchrome colors - a friend was telling me that I MUST try at least Q.Gold so I bought a 14ml W&N tube which turned out to be a very good investment.

While experimenting - trying to adjust to my new surroundings, here in Tucson, I found that all greens were off. Don't ask how I came across this one, but I mixed Q. Gold with Paynes Gray(blueish) & found the shade of green I was searching for.:clap:

I know David Smith has a wide selection of Q. colors - has anyone
here tried any & do you like them??

keep painting,

Frank

ps: I have found a group that does a lot of 'plein air' painting here. I hate to admit it, but I use a small round plastic palette with about 10 dimples around a 2" flat circle & each time I paint - I look at the area & grab about 5-6 tubes & squeeze out a stingy sample. I do not recommend this method.

Mario
01-04-2002, 09:14 AM
Is there a website for David Smith? I am getting very interested in these Quin. colors. thanks

rapolina
01-04-2002, 10:43 AM
he website of DanielSmith is the following:
http://www.danielsmith.com/intro.html


i think you mead daniel smith color brand; i don't know any David Smith.
bye, rapolina.
:cat:

Javier
01-04-2002, 01:09 PM
I keep a very simple watercolour palette:

Light Red
Olive Green

Raw Sienna
Burnt Sienna
Burnt Umber

French Ultramarine
Winsor (Phthalo) Blue
Payne's Gray

I paint mainly landscapes (farm land, villages, streams, lakes, trees, grasses, and so on...). If I paint anything else (i.e. a floral scene), I use a different palette, which is not as yet fixed.

Fmalo
01-04-2002, 01:53 PM
Rapolina,

Thanks for giving the Daniel Smith site. Sorry, I misled people when I said 'David'.

I would like to hear from others about the Q. colors - good & bad points, thanks.

Keep painting,

Frank

snakum
01-09-2002, 10:51 PM
I started out with ...
Cadmium Lemon Hue
Cadmium Yellow Med Hue
Cadmium Red Lt Hue
Alizarin Crimson
French Ultramarine
Sap Green
Titanium White
Lamp Black

And I've added ...
Cerulean Hue (Can't afford the real stuff)
Viridian (Learning to glaze and my emerald-like green mix blew)
Cobalt Violet (My violet mixes blew, as well)
Indian Red (I needed an opaque dark red)

... all in Daler-Rowney Georgian (In which the cadmium yellows are VERY transparent unless you put a small dab of titanium white in them, for some bizarre reason).

At the end of next month I'm picking up a large set of opaque and transparent Rembrant oils if things continue to go as well as they have been. A warm and cool color each of yellow, red, blue, and green along with earth colors. Then a few more transparent colors.

Minh Thong

Einion
01-12-2002, 06:17 AM
Originally posted by snakum
Viridian (Learning to glaze and my emerald-like green mix blew)
Cobalt Violet (My violet mixes blew, as well)
Indian Red (I needed an opaque dark red)
You needed a good green-biased blue to mix good emeralds, coupled with a comparable green-biased transparent yellow like PY3. Your Cadmium Lemon Hue may be a good colour for this but Ultramarine is the most violet-blue available so is as far from the ideal colour for mixing clean greens as you can get!
Mixed violets are tough, Ultramarine should mix the best result you can get although you need a better violet-red than Alizarin Crimson both in terms of colour and lightfastness.
The best opaque dark reds are cadmiums, the genuine thing sorry. I don't keep this colour any longer as I can mix a good replacement from Cadmium Red Medium and Quinacridone Violet but nothing beats Cadmium Red Dark purely in terms of opacity.

... all in Daler-Rowney Georgian (In which the cadmium yellows are VERY transparent unless you put a small dab of titanium white in them, for some bizarre reason).
Not bizarre at all, these are hues, on the continent they use the term Imit - imitation, which makes it much clearer! Most cadmium hues, even if good matches in terms of hue, are poor replacements with regards opacity and undercolour/mixing as the cadmiums are the most opaque members of a given hue position generally speaking. In this case the lemon is probably an azo/arylide pigment, the medium a mix of arylide and nickel yellow and the red pyrrole pigments. Try to ignore that each is a poor representation of a cadmium and instead value them for their transparency.

And apart from anything else Daler-Rowney are not the best paints in my experience, with poor documentation and pigment load. You might want to try a few other brands, even Utrecht's proprietary brand is probably better and it's very reasonably priced. If price is a problem you might like to try ordering online from Dick Blick who are much more reasonable than your typical art-supply store.

At the end of next month I'm picking up a large set of opaque and transparent Rembrant oils if things continue to go as well as they have been. A warm and cool color each of yellow, red, blue, and green along with earth colors. Then a few more transparent colors.
FWIW try these colour from their range:
Permanent Lemon Yellow - not the best green-yellow by any means but a good pigment nonetheless and you should already have a decent one in your Cadmium Lemon Hue.
Cadmium Yellow Medium
Cadmium Red Light or Vermilion (theirs is Pyrrole Orange PO73, possibly the best dark-valued red-orange)
Quinacridone Rose or Permanent Red Violet, both forms of PV19, depending on whether you prefer a violet-red or a darker-valued red-violet.
Phthalo Blue Green, although theirs is a rarer variation of the pigment which is not the greenest variety. Winsor & Newton or Utrecht are probably the best available.
You already have Ultramarine so you don't need to buy this again and it is the most violet-blue available, they do offer an Ultramarine Deep but I don't know if this offers anything worthwhile compared to the one you already have. Other than that the only blues worth experimenting with are Cerulean and Cobalt but both are cobalt-based and in the top price bracket.
Save your money and mix your greens, I didn't use a green for years. If you do decide you want one, the most versatile is Phthalo Green Blue.

Of the other colours they offer two transparent iron oxide pigments worth experimenting with, a yellow and a red. Their orange is a mix of these two so no point in getting that and the brown could be simply matched by adding blue or a black to the red variety. I would avoid their common earth colour like Raw Umber, Greenish Umber, Sepia and Burnt Umber as they are all mixes.

<A HREF=http://www.talens.com/>Talens</A> have a good website if you want to check their pigment tables for yourself - they list all their pigments with colour swatches, an example I wish more manufacturers would follow.

Hope this helps,
Einion

snakum
01-12-2002, 10:55 AM
Printed and saved for shopping next month ... thanks Einion!

Minh Thong

nam26b
01-13-2002, 01:07 AM
Snak--

One think that helped me a lot with color mixing was taking a fairly large canvas and just making a matrix of what each color looks like by itself and mixed with each other color I own. In other words, it's kind of like a multiplication table only with paint.

It hangs on my wall, and I usually look at it before making any kind of color mix. It has helped quite a bit. Might want to try it.




Nathan

Patrick1
01-13-2002, 03:03 AM
Snakum, Einion is right on that the reason you didn't get clean greens and violets is because you need to have the two colours to be biased toward the 'secondary' you are trying to mix. If you want a clean green, you need a greenish blue and greenish yellow, as Einion said. Same goes for violets or oranges. This is an over-simplification of things, but for the most part it's the way it is. This is the crux of the book Blue And Yellow Don't Make Green (by Michael Wilcox); his website is:

www.schoolofcolor.com

I highly recommend this book; it's simple but good. It'll save you from wasting paint trying to mix that clean colour you want.

For clean violets, alizarin crimson isn't a bad choice, but it's not the best choice (despite being the most popular choice for a blueish red). In addition to the rose and violet forms of PV19 pigment that Einion suggested, another good one is PR122 (quinacridone magenta). If I'm not mistaken, this will give the cleanest violets of any red or magenta when mixed with ultramarine blue.

In my colour mixing trials, this combination came close to matching the saturation of pure dioxazine purple straight from the tube. Look under the thread I stared a few months ago in this forum called 'color mixing experiment'. I HIGHLY recommend you do a colour multiplcation table with all your paints, as Nathan suggests. And use it as permanent future reference; you'll learn a lot from it, and it'll save you from wasting paint by guessing what the outcome will be. Fun too.

Ever wondered what 6 watercolours will give you the widest range of colours possible? Click here:

http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/paletfs.html

Then click on "secondary" on the left. This is for watercolours, but I'd think it would also apply to oils and acrylics, at least when applied transparently.

Einion
01-13-2002, 07:24 PM
A resounding third vote for a colour multiplication table (what a great name for it!) In addition to using a great deal of paint it will teach you more about the real nature of your colours, and quickly, than anything else.

Patrick is right, PR122 will yield the brightest-possible mixed violets of any red but Talens don't offer it unfortunately. If you were interesting in trying it for this reason, Winsor & Newton offer it as their Magenta in oils and theirs is a superb example of the pigment.

Einion

snakum
01-14-2002, 04:11 PM
When I first started using color in November (Prismacolor pencils) I made a huge sheet with a couple shades of each color and a swatch of those colors mixed with the other chosen hues. I did something similar when I started using pastels last month. Since I want to buy a set of something top shelf next month I've been reading excerpts from the Quiller color theory and I may try to make swatches of everything using his 'clamshell' method when I buy my next set.

My problem (or rather ... one of my many problems) is that I am mostly glazing and I'm thinking I may try to concentrate on a transparent pallet first when I make the expensive paint purchase. I'm looking at Holbien and Shiva, specifically. Are the various color theories out there the same for transparent pallets, as well? I don't actually mix anything right now, outside of paint used for underpainting or for scumbling, rather I would apply Ultramarine over a trans yellow to get a green, for example. Can transparent colors be mixed for a new hue just like opaque colors, if I stay away from adding white (I just found out by accident that you couldn't mix even a little white into a transparent yellow without it becoming opaque:o)?

I'm so information-overloaded my head is starting to spin around and I'm waiting for the projectile pea soup to start :D . The only thing I know for sure is that glazing is the method I work best in, even though most people tell me I should start with painting Alla Prima. Oh ... and the second thing I know for sure is that Maxwell Parrish is God ... even though I didn't know who he was two weeks ago!

Minh Thong

rapolina
01-15-2002, 04:38 AM
I always mix transparent colors ( watercolor medium), and i get transparent hues. I just avoid to mix more then 3 different pigments, in order to prevent muddy colors.
overlapped glazes give different effects then the mixed colours, both useful and beautiful. you can also mix colors wet on wet directly on the paper.

the following book reveals very interesting kknowledge about mix and glaze colors:
"make colors sing" by J. Dobe. i suggest it very much, it's my favorite one!

:cat: ciao, rapolina.

iyoung
01-16-2002, 01:57 PM
I don't use premixed greens or violets with few exceptions.
Here's my acrylic palette:
Cadmium Lemon
Cadmium Yellow Medium
Cadmium Red Light-warm
Alizarin Crimson Permanent
Rose Madder-cool
Burnt Sienna
Cobalt Blue
Cerulean Blue
Thalo Blue
Titanium White
& a transparent blending white

Only one change from TPS. Must have had the same color theory teachers. Here's my watercolor palette, all transparent:

Cobalt Blue W & N cool
Blockx Blue (mid thalo like Windsor used to be before they split it to red & green)(staining)Blockx neutral to warmish depending on strength
Rose Madder Genuine (semi-trans used in high strength) W & N cool
Permanent Rose (staining) W & N cool
Aliz. Crimson (staining) Grumbacher professional cool
Windsor Red (for mixing darks) (staining) w & N neutral
Burnt Sienna w & n
Aureolin Holbein cool
New Gamboge W & N warm/neutral

Occasional additions: Windsor Green (for darks) W & N, real Vermillion- Holbein, Manganese Blue (real) Holbein, Sap Green (Da Vinci only because of how it texturizes), Viridian W & N, Quin. gold W & N. Most of these are for additional texture. Manganese & Vermillion are not transparent.

Ilene

blissfullyunaware
01-26-2002, 05:33 PM
Hi llis,

Tried to research the Reubens palette question. "Techniques of the Great Masters of Art" does not list a palette for Ruben but it does for most other artists that were considered masters. It leads me to believe that his pallette is unknown. Did you ever find it?

Sharon

llis
01-28-2002, 07:30 AM
Bliss,

Yes, sorry I forgot to put it up. :)

This basic palette was compiled after studying the pigments in his study after his death which have been preserved in the Museum at Antwerp.

Basic Palette:

Lead White,
Ivory Black

Genuine Ultramarine - lapis lazuli
Cobalt Blue

Red Madder,
Burnt Sienna

Yellow Lake,
Terre Verte - earth green
Malachite Green,

Vermillion Vert Azur - cobalt oxide
Red Ocher
Orpiment - Arsenic Sulfide --a yellow used to create green Yellow Ocher --hardly ever used nowadays, because it is poisonous, doesn't dry very well in oil, and, in time, changes color.

But, we know that he like to use a very limited palette sometimes... black, red, brown and white. This is in keeping with his use of a brownish tone or a grayish tone for the surface color of his larger canvases because he wanted his paintings to have a lustrous surface and still be able to give bright transparent color.

He also thought that the shadows should be transparent and the light opaque, which he accomplished using his colored surface. (can't do that using a white surface)

We also know that he used layer after layer of paints to accomplish his work. Today I think we short cut the method by trying to use just one glaze of one color to unify a painting. Guess he would call us the "fast paint" junkies. (as in "fast food")

luci
01-29-2002, 09:41 PM
Hello!

I am a new member attempting my first post, so please bear with me until I figure out how to do this.

I paint in watercolor and acrylic using my limited understanding of the Munsell color system. The Munsell color wheel is based on 5 primary colors rather than 3 primaries and 3 secondaries. The main difference is that red and yellow are closer together, so the some complements are a bit different than normal. For a practical, nontechnical explanation, see Harley Brown's eternal truth for every artist, by Harley Brown with Lewis Barrett Lehrman.

It was surprising that a thread starting 'show us your palette' had so many lists of color names and so few illustrations, so I will attempt to upload some color. This is an example of one color wheel using a particular brand of acrylic paints. I use very few earth colors:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Jan-2002/PaletteGolden

When I start a painting, I choose a dominant color and its complement with some discords. I use around 6-8 tubes of paint, not the whole palette, for that painting. I'll demonstrate that in a later post.

Luci

luci
01-29-2002, 09:50 PM
As an example of how I use the Munsell system, I would decide on yellow as the dominant color for a painting and blue-purple as the complement and red-purple and blue-green in smaller quantities as discords and make a color chart like this:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Jan-2002/Munsell3Liquitex

This method helps me establish a color scheme at the beginnng and harmonize the entire painting.

Luci

snakum
01-29-2002, 10:00 PM
Thanks Luci ... very interesting post. I'm eager to know if there's more to come, maybe a session-by-session shot of the process and your selections (in color, that was a nice touch BTW)?

Graci,

Minh

Mario
01-31-2002, 03:28 PM
Yes Luci I too am grabbed by your lead in..I hope that you post more..
also, I would like to ask Milt to post his present colors and I am especially interested in which red(s) he is using and how does he make his favorite greens...:confused:

bruin70
02-06-2002, 07:58 PM
any color that looks good is dandy with me.

old holland yellow med

" " light

holbein foundation white

----------------all the above act as one

yellow ochre

black, ivory

any rusty red

any king's blue

old holland ultramarine deep or doak's wellington blue

any green earth

mars violet

this is my BASIC palette. i will add colors as i see fit.

Einion
02-07-2002, 09:18 PM
Milt, I gather from this that hue is not that important to you? And do I understand correctly, you use yellows and white interchangeably?

Einion

bruin70
02-08-2002, 03:44 AM
the old holland yellow med is a very light yellow,,,,yellow light is closer to white than yellow. i hate white.

i'm a tonal painter. but i will use strong color when necessary, example, compositional areas or pattern.

too much color is counterproductive for me,,,,they fight each other. i try to make my selective colors sing.....{M}

Mario
02-09-2002, 08:48 AM
I'm guessing that the prinicipal referred to is to have a warm and cool version of each of the three primaries so that the in-be-tween complimentaries are easier to reach and produce a cleaner color from the mixture. Is this correct or is there a lot more to it? thanx:confused:

bruin70
02-09-2002, 02:56 PM
the "mixing" principle i go by is the "milt kobayashi" mixing principle.

which is......that the justification of a color is how it resides on one's canvas.

i don't use warm and cool of each color.....{M}

domsanto
02-09-2002, 10:16 PM
Colors I have been using on recent work.


Indigo
Prussian Blue
Cerulean Blue
French Ultramarine Blue
Burnt Sienna
Alizarin Crimson
Vermillion
Thalo Green

Painted Melody
02-09-2002, 10:52 PM
Earth colors are my security blanket.

+++ Raw Sienna
++ Gray
+ Yellow Ochre
+ Carmine

Done!

Jeremy

Scott Methvin
02-11-2002, 04:45 PM
Hi Folks,

As per Mario's request, here is my limited pallette.

1) cyan-grumbacher pre-tested pthalo blue.

This pigment is extremely strong, you have to get used to using it in a very diluted way. I have never felt the need for any other blue. It makes great skies and shadows. It also mixes up with my other pigments very well. If I want an ultramarine-ish blue, I just add a little of my "red." I also make it myself, but one little unground grain can make a disaster in a sky. For delicate thing like that, I use the Grumbacher.

2) yellow-Old Holland gambooge lake extra.

This is another extremely strong tinting pigment (combination) Used thinly and sparingly, it is a very nice neutralish yellow. It leans on the warm side though. Very nice greens can be made with the right technique. I have not found a better all purpose yellow, that is transparent. Still looking. OH indian yellows-green side, orange side and brown side are also very nice.

3) Magenta-red -I use Daniel Smith quinacridone red and also a bit of the magenta version.

The magenta is hard to use as your only "red". I cheat with the red to help me out. Very intense. Like a rose madder, only better. Similar to alizirine, but more basic.
I am also using genuine vermillion, or cinnibar, from Kremer. Easy to mix with a pallette knfe in small batches. Maimeri's puro's primary red is pretty good if you don't mind the poppyseed oil.

4) OH terre verde

Hard to work with. Still playing around with this one. i also have some senelier dry pigment that I like better. Usually, I mix a bluish green from the gambooge and thalo. Less grit.

5) Lead white-Kremer

What can I say? Without this pigment, I would probably quit oil painting. Before that happens, I would make it myself. The most important paint that I use. I make 3 versions. Very thick, stringy and medium. Easy to make and impossible to duplicate with any store brand. I have 40lbs of pigment, in case they stop selling it. (Sinopia just did stop, recently)

Medium.

Washed raw cold pressed linseed oil and canada balsam. Also WN terpentine on occasion.

I might add that I have an unusual way of painting. My color choices don't really work too well if you like to lighten with white and darken with black. I do a lot of glazing and other off beat things.

Bonnie Jean
02-14-2002, 07:36 PM
Hi, my name is Bonnie (Bj) and I have been lurking for awhile.I paint with oils,people & bird portraits (I have 5 parrots),seascapes,and landscapes

This is my first post, so hopefully I'm doing it right.

My seascape palette colors are as follows
Permelba white
Cad yellow pale (or light)
Cad orange (Cad yellow deep)
Aliz Crim
Veridan Green
Cer. Blue
Ult. Blue
Burnt sienna (rocks)
I use these colors as I studied many years under E. John Robinson, taking week long workshops on location in Carmel, California
Even though I have tried other palettes, I always go back to E.John's.
I'm looking for the recipe for John Howard Sanden's pro mix colors. I believe they were in his first book, which is out of print, " Painting
The Head in Oil" published in 1976.
Thanks,
Bj

Ron van den Boogaard
02-15-2002, 08:18 AM
In Eric Hebborn's excellent book "the Art Forger's Handbook" (Overlook Press; ISBN: 0879517670, out of print) has quite a few palettes used by famous artists, and if i remember correctly, Rubens' is also in there.

Ron van den Boogaard (http://home.wanadoo.nl/brainbox)

Hammatime
03-05-2002, 04:20 PM
I think I own every color you can buy!

My palette for a painting? Here's my equasion:

my mood + the temparature + lighting + the subject + how comfortable my feet are + whatever colors appeal to me at that moment in time + how many glasses of wine I have had + the music I am listening to = my palette

;)

Seriously though...don't limit yourselves, explore color!

Don't be afraid...the tubes won't bite!

~M!

chasse
03-12-2002, 04:17 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ruth
[B]Acrylics:

Titanium White
Quinacridone magenta
Phthalocyanine blue
Transparent yellow

These colors fit in the CYM triad instead of the RYB. They are more like the colors of ink used in color printers. You can mix gorgeous colors, luscious greens, oranges, purples. They're transparent and very strong colors and I love 'em. These are the ones I take with me when traveling. Nothing else is needed.

Hi Ruth

you mention that these colours simulate the CYM triad.
I was wondering if you or anybody on the list can tell me why none of the paint manufacturers actually make paints exactly the same colours as the CYM printer inks?

George

Scott Methvin
03-12-2002, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by chasse
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ruth
[B]Acrylics:

Titanium White
Quinacridone magenta
Phthalocyanine blue
Transparent yellow

These colors fit in the CYM triad instead of the RYB. They are more like the colors of ink used in color printers. You can mix gorgeous colors, luscious greens, oranges, purples. They're transparent and very strong colors and I love 'em. These are the ones I take with me when traveling. Nothing else is needed.

Hi Ruth

you mention that these colours simulate the CYM triad.
I was wondering if you or anybody on the list can tell me why none of the paint manufacturers actually make paints exactly the same colours as the CYM printer inks?

George

George,

They do. It is better to make them from the dry pigment, yourself. Daniel Smith sells quinacridone magenta and rose. I haven't found a tube color to match them. Grumbacher pre tested thalo blue is a perfect cyan. The yellow is tricky, but I make do with OH gambooge lake extra.

The thing about matching printer colors is that they use black. We use white. This is a big difference. They also make perfect little color dots and we basically rely on pigment particle size. In the case of the 3 aforementioned pigments, these are quite tiny compared to say-lead white or terre verde.

terrygar
05-03-2002, 09:56 AM
As an acrylic artist who uses tons of color ands sees the world as eye candy. I have developed a system, it involves small plactic cups with tight lids. I fill each one with a basic color and all its shades. This allows me to have 6-7 cups ready at all time and keeps the paint alive for weeks.
Then as I paint I mix on a pallet or in the cup and this works fantastic. My work involves colors that must be alive, and I paint at a moments notice, so this is the best for me.

cagathoc
06-14-2002, 04:26 PM
I use Rembrandt artist oils and Utrecht pro oil colors.

titanium white

cad yellow light
cad org
cad red med
aliz crim

cer blue
cob blue
ultramar blue
payne's gray

yellow ochre
burnt sienna

Rocio
06-19-2002, 09:17 AM
Thank you for the illustrated posts Luci, it sure helps a lot. I get frustrated when I see a list of 28 hues...what do I do with that? Your posts help make what you are doing with color very accessable to others.

LeslieLlws
07-16-2002, 10:15 PM
For some things, such as abstract work, consideration of pallette is almost irrelevant, since one tends to use what works in a given situation. In my own work, I use acrylics but use a flow release and mix colors in plastic butter tubs in order to have a uniform color mixture ( my paintings use large flat areas of color). The pallette is often determined by what is left from a prior painting, or what is demanded by a painting to evince a particular mood or color relationship.

I gave up consideration of color theories a long time ago, on the basis that it was all well and good, but did not fit my style of working, either for painting or prints. When I start a painting, I begn with one color area, and that sets up a demand for a response for adjacent areas. I have tried doing a piece where all color relationships were carefully planned out beforehand, and carried that through to completion. After I looked at the painting for a while, trying to figure why it looked dead, I went back and repainted it, maintaining the starting color, and changing everything else in terms of how it felt emotionally. What a difference, even though the painting took almost a year to complete.

I guess what I am tryng to say is that your pallette should be what feels right to you, and forget systems and theories about laying it out. An important consideration then becomes what mixes with what, in terms of opaque verus transparent colors, and ow some of the more fugitive colors interact when mixed.

MrSpringGreen
07-17-2002, 10:58 AM
Wine coneisseur.
I have an idea. I pick my colors. I paint. I look at it and figure out what I think I did wrong. I consider the next painting. Rinse and Repeat process.

prairie painter
08-11-2002, 12:24 AM
My pallette (watercolor) consists of:
Thalo Crimson
Geranium Lake
Ultramarine Blue
Thalo Blue
Lemon Yellow
Gamboge
Burnt & Raw Sienna
Davy's Gray (don't ask me why, but I love this color)
Viridian
and, on occasion, Turquoise just 'cuz it's gorgeous.
You my have noticed, these are all Grumbacher Academy colors. Why? A bazillion reasons. Frankly, some of them I love so much I won't give them up, and others I'm still learning about.
I also have several tubes of "artist grade" and student grade paints, but I want to get to know these few colors very well so I never much use the others. I have some friends who are practicing psych's who would have a field day with that!
(now if I could have one tube to just play with, it would be Opera)

Deb Leger
08-23-2002, 02:26 AM
I agree with what's being said about not limiting yourself with specific palette systems. BUT, I found that **learning** the split primary palette taught me a lot about mixing colours and getting what I want, instead of just through trial and error and frustration. (Exploring, pushing the limits and constantly asking 'what if' is my motto, by the way!) I've taken w/c online classes with Susie Short and, because of that system and her lessons, now understand how to get what I want, be it dull earthy colours or clear vibrant colours. Through our colour charts, I also learned that I can easily get by with only seven tubes of paint.

But who would want to limit themselves permanently to only seven tubes of paint? :D

I love the system, am constantly mixing colours using the principles, but also have quite a few other "must-have-and-can't-live-without" colours on my palette. It would be totally impossible for me to walk out of Loomis & Toles, or Wallack's without at least one new tube of paint!

In other words, I don't religiously follow the principles and stick to only seven tubes of paint, but it's sure nice to know and have those principles at my disposal!

I use tube colours, squeezed into palette wells and allowed to dry. As for brands, I've listed them below. One brand I do not like is the American Journey. It's great for using wet from the tube, but I've found that dried, it splits and shrinks something terrible!

With all that said and done, here's my palette. With the exception of the Van Gogh Cobalt Blue, all are the Artist Quality paints.

The basics for the split:
WN Winsor Yellow
WN New Gamboge
WN Winsor Blue
Daniel Smith Ultramarine
WN Permanent Rose
Holbein Vermilion (when this is gone, it's GONE - I hate it! Too chalky.)
WN Burnt Sienna

My favourite "others":
Holbein Indigo
Van Gogh Cobalt Blue (a cheaper brand, but I love, love, love this blue!)
WN Neutral Tint
Holbein Shadow Green
WN Oxide of Chromium
Holbein Perm Green
WN Quin Gold
WN Sepia
WN Raw Umber
Holbein Shell Pink
Schminke Carmine
WN Green Gold (the jury's still out on this one)
Sennelier Payne's Gray

I'm really enjoying reading about the palette choices everyone makes!

belladonna
08-23-2002, 03:23 AM
Here’s the pallet for the painting that I’m working on now …. Beaux Arts Burnt Sienna, Thalo Blue, and Rembrandt Lemon Yellow, and Titanium White.

Terry
08-25-2002, 07:49 PM
The Reubens Pallet that I was taught was:
Yello Ochre
Cad Yellow Light
Alizarin Crimson
Cad Red Med
Terra Rosa
Blockx Burnt Sienna Deep
Viridian
Cobalt Blue
Ultramarine Blue
Ivory Black
TitaniumWhite

We made charts for each color using one main color then adding a secondary color to it then 5 values of each
After all 10were done we had a 500 color set of colors to help us define what a color was and how to make it
Terry Ludwig

scorpio32
08-27-2002, 01:24 AM
i use grumbacher academy colors(i know ,i'm cheap)

cad yellow light
cad orange
cad red light
hookers green
burnt sienna
ultramarine blue
dioxizine purple
thalo blue
alizarin crimson
thalo yellow green

i'm still trying to get down to 6 colors

and i dont use black cuz black doesn't exist in nature

and i use gesso for white :p

Einion
08-27-2002, 05:54 PM
Terry, that sure must have used a ton of paint! No better way to learn the interaction of colours though. Do you recall how long it took by the way?

Originally posted by scorpio32
and i dont use black cuz black doesn't exist in nature
Yes it does, but more importantly you're missing its value in colour mixing.

Originally posted by scorpio32
and i use gesso for white
Are you using acrylic or watercolour?

Einion

prairie painter
08-28-2002, 04:15 PM
Scorp- you have solved my dilemma! I work with academy colors in a 6-color system and have been looking for a good color for my second yellow- thalo yellowgreen makes just fabulous greens with the blues on my palette, and even an awesome orange with Scarlet. Never would've tried it.
As far as black in nature- I'm quite natural and I have black eyes. Not dark brown. Black. And my dogs have black spots. And my chickens have black feathers. But when I'm painting, I much prefer to "not-quite-mix" my own blacks, drawing in the other colors I'm working with for unity. The only exception, and the only time I've used a tube black, was when I sketched a seagull off Orcas Island, sitting on a tarry pier. That tar just wanted to be dead, flat black and it set off the sparkling Sound and the young gull perfectly.
As far as white goes, the paper does quite nicely:)

scorpio32
08-28-2002, 08:00 PM
I just don't use it(to each their own) i can make more colorful blacks with blue & sienna,crimson & purple,etc.... i use acrylic btw, i use gesso cuz its cheaper than tit. white it works fine for me.glad i helped ya out visionary! :D

Mickey Lee
10-02-2002, 09:19 AM
Hi. I've only just joined the list, so forgive me if I go over old ground. I've been doing some research into colour mixing and colour schemes etc. While I've always had a basic understanding of colour mixing and schemes, I've found out there's a LOT I don't know.

One of the things I've found out which was interesting. I work with acrylics, which are chemically made. Each are given a specific pigment number. So why is there such a big difference between one brand to the next - same name, such as Raw Umber.

Some pigments are cheap (and some are not). Some paints have a lot of 'fillers' added to them. What 'binds' the paint is different between brands.

Sometimes the more you learn, the more confused you get.

A question I would like to ask is about the value/use of transparent/opaque colours. How do these work with colour mixing/schemes?

snakum
11-12-2002, 01:41 PM
I thought I'd post my now-modified split-primary palette, based on studying The Students Guide To Painting ...

All Rembrandt Oils unless otherwise noted

Cadmium Lemon (makes beautiful range of greens)
Cadmium Yellow Medium
Cadmium Orange
Cadmium Red Light
Permanent Madder Deep (beautiful Alizarin)
Ultramarine Deep
Pthalo Blue Green Shade
Veridian
Chromium Oxide Green
Yellow Ochre
Raw Sienna
Burnt Sienna
Burnt Umber (and lots of it :D )
Ivory Black
Grumbacher Flake White

I was able to easily make all the color charts and color tests in the book without Cadmium Orange, Yellow Ochre, Burnt Sienna, and Viridian. But I use these colors alot and the Cad Orange is used extensively in the Reilly flesh palette.

Minh

magnuscanis
01-13-2003, 07:02 AM
For watercolour painting, I use a box of 12 Winsor & Newton Cotman colours (half pans) arranged in two rows as follows:


Sap Green Lemon Yellow
Viridian Green Cadmium Yellow
Yellow Ochre Cadmium Red Pale Hue
Burnt Sienna Alizarin Crimson
Burnt Umber Ultramarine Blue
Payne's Grey Prussian Blue


On the right hand side are my primaries, a warm and a cool one of each. On the left are the earth colours, a couple of greens and a neutral grey. I mix up all the other colours I need (or at least, I try to :)).

I generally try and use as few colours from my palette as possible in any given painting, often using as few as three. At the moment the ones I use the most are Yellow Ochre, Alizarin Crimson and Prussian Blue.

For my acrylic painting, I use a similar set of colours, with the addition of Titanium White and Mars Black. I haven't yet done enough acrylic painting to standardise my palette layout.

- Magnus

Einion
01-15-2003, 10:17 PM
Hi Magnus, looks like a good working palette. I was going to suggest a more lightfast alternative to genuine Alizarin Crimson but the Cotman colour is a hue so it's not necessary. In case you're not aware Prussian Blue can fade in light but if this happens it can recover when stored in the dark!

For acrylics I would recommend Phthalo Green BS in place of Viridian and the Cotman colour is a hue using just this pigment, PG7. Since you're unlikely to find Prussian Blue, Phthalo Blue GS is the best alternative and is more versatile in mixes too. Which colour do you use in place of Alizarin Crimson in acrylics?

Payne's Grey is a simple mix of Ultramarine and black so you can easily mix some yourself if you want to and a more interesting colour is achieved by substituting Burnt Sienna or Umber for the black. Sap Green is also a simple mix if you want to save on that too, Cadmium Yellow Medium and Phthalo Blue GS are good, as is Phthalo Green BS with most any dark yellow.

Einion

magnuscanis
01-16-2003, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by Einion

For acrylics I would recommend Phthalo Green BS in place of Viridian and the Cotman colour is a hue using just this pigment, PG7. Since you're unlikely to find Prussian Blue, Phthalo Blue GS is the best alternative and is more versatile in mixes too. Which colour do you use in place of Alizarin Crimson in acrylics?


Thanks for the advice Einion.

Sorry if it's obvious, but what do BS and GS stand for? Is it "Blue Shade" and "Green Shade" or something else?

I think it's Phthalo Blue that I have in my acrylic palette at the moment, as well as a much lighter blue which looks a bit like Cerulean but is called something else. I'm not sure what the crimson is called, possibly just Crimson. To be honest, the acrylics I use at the moment are a set of small tubes by Reeves, which I picked up cheap in a bookshop of all places! I'm sure they are far from the best paints available, but I really just wanted to try out acrylics. I've been enjoying them a lot so far, so I'll doubtless upgrade to better paints soon.

Einion
01-18-2003, 04:55 AM
Sorry yes, BS is blue shade (in this context!) and GS is green shade. Qualifiers like this in the name can be useful, except in some cases like the 'red shade' of phthalo blue which isn't technically accurate.

Reeves paint shouldn't be terrible but they didn't have the best reputation (I think they're gone now that they were swallowed by ColArt). I'd guess their quality would be somewhere around student or studio grade by others' standards. Check the tubes, see if they have the colour index names, PG7 for instance (pigment green 7), listed so if you want to buy the same as you're using you can at least see what the colours actually are when they run out.

If the phthalo blue is undifferentiated (listed as PB15 only or if the name is the only thing to go on) it is very likely to be Phthalo Blue Red Shade, which is a good blue but the GS is a better choice if it's your only phthalo (it's the most versatile green-blue) and makes an excellent foil for Ultramarine, the most violet-blue. Many good alternatives for crimson are now available, depending on what you specifically want. Quinacridone Rose is available from a number of makers and is probably most versatile, although if you're used to something as dark as Ali Crimson you might prefer some of the simulations of it or darker-valued examples like Anthraquinone Red, PR177, or one of the Pyrrole reds which is named variously but can be identified by its CIN, PR264.

Einion

ranunkel
01-26-2003, 12:42 PM
Hi

I work in water color
and I use a very small palette, I find that things get messy when I use to many colors.

palette:


Primary yellow
Gold ochre
Raw umbra
burnt Sienna
permenent deep red
primary red
emerald green
manganese blue
payne`s grey
ultramarine

I never use all of them in one painting.
I perfer to mix as many of my colors my self as posible.
It is less expensive to buy paint this way.

DLGardner
01-28-2003, 12:35 AM
For oils I have been using Alizerian Crimson for my red but I plan on changing in the near future since I have to completely replenish my paints. I am concerned about the lightfastness. I do not like the cads as they tend to mix muddy. I've ordered some Schmineke Mussini oils and have a Carmine coming. I'll let you know how that works out.

I love to use Cobalt blue PB28 for my mixes and cerulean blue for my pure blues. I also have a favorite Old Holland Kings Blue Deep (don't know the number but I plan on investigating this one to see of anyone else makes this color) for special one stroke highlights...I just love it!

Hansa Yellow is my favorite and I discovered in a class tonight that Cobalt blue PB28, Hansa Yellow P43 and Quin Rose PV19 are an excellent triad and mix an endless amount of clean transparent colors.


I don't use a lot of colors, usually 3 or 4 per painting, but I do change the palette I use depending on the subject matter. This is because I dabble in plein aire landscapes, portrait paintings and pet portraits...so each of these subjects calls for different hues.
As for landscapes here in the Northwest, depending on the weather will also determine what colors I take with me. Sometimes here in WA we can expect to paint a tonal grey painting as opposed to bright sunlit ones, thus, my palette will demand something different.

Good thread! One to keep referring to.


Dianne

Einion
02-01-2003, 02:54 PM
Hi Dianne, in case you missed it you might like to check out <A HREF=http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=900436#post900436>this</A> for lightfast alternatives to Alizarin Crimson.

Kings Blue is a traditional convenience mixture, a simple mix of white and Ultramarine! Many other makers offer it including Michael Harding to my surprise. I think it's also available from Williamsburg if memory serves.

Originally posted by d_garden
Sometimes here in WA we can expect to paint a tonal grey painting as opposed to bright sunlit ones, thus, my palette will demand something different.
Yes indeedy!

Einion

P.S. In case you weren't aware the Schmincke Mussini colours are not straight oil paints, they are resin/oils. Not sure if it's important to you but it's worth mentioning.

Isabella
02-03-2003, 08:52 PM
Einion, where is your acrylic palette colors posted originally? (The one that llis posted?) I want to make a copy but I can't because it's in that blue box.

By the way, is there anyway this can be make a sticky thread? A great reference!:cool: Sheez...I just noticed it IS a sticky thread. Good heavens, I'm losing it.

DLGardner
02-03-2003, 10:47 PM
Kings Blue is a traditional convenience mixture, a simple mix of white and Ultramarine! Many other makers offer it including Michael Harding to my surprise. I think it's also available from Williamsburg if memory serves.
Well, I suppose this may be true but I have never been able to get this blue just by mixing...but then that could be me.

P.S. In case you weren't aware the Schmincke Mussini colours are not straight oil paints, they are resin/oils. Not sure if it's important to you but it's worth mentioning.

Yes I know and it doesn't bother me. I like these paints a lot. They are very bright and vibrant, crisp and clean colors. I'm quite satisfied.

Thanks for the tips!

Dianne

Einion
02-04-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Isabella
Einion, where is your acrylic palette colors posted originally?
Actually I don't remember but if you do a search under my name for one of the pigments, with "Show results as posts" clicked instead of threads you should find it no problem. There's actually more than once thread with discussions of palette choices, here and probably in the acrylic and oils forums too, in case you want to check those out as well.

Einion

Phoenix Rising
08-31-2003, 12:12 AM
I paint in watercolor mostly, and am still trying to cut back on what colours I use at the moment. But the following are colours that I use quite frequently. The ones with an * are used very frequently:

Cerulean Blue(Cotman)
Cobalt Blue(Grumbacher Finest) *
Ultramarine(Van Gogh at the moment)
Phthalo Blue(Cotman) *

Sap Green(Cotman)

Aureolin(Winsor and Newton Artists) *
Yellow Ochre(Cotman)
Gamboge(Coman) *
Lemon Yellow(Van Gogh) *
Cad. Yellow Medium Hue(Cotman)
Raw Sienna(Cotman)

Alizarin Crimson Permanent(Winsor and Newton Artists)
Cad. Red Medium(Grumbacher Finest)

Burnt Sienna(Van Gogh) *
Sepia(Van Gogh)
Paynes Grey(Da Vinci) *

Once I run out of these colours on the palatte(I queeze the paint into the wells, and let them dry) I will switch over to artist quality paints. I am also looking at getting another smaller palette. I am using the Richeson Watercolor palatte at the moment, but it isn't practical to travel with.

I also do not care for the Cadmuim colours in watercolors, as I dislike their opacity.

Although I only just started with acrylics, I like the following palatte. Again, the ones marked with an * are used frequently:

Cerulean Blue, Chromium(Liquitex)
Ultramarine(Grumbacher Academy)
Thalo Blue GS(Grumbacher Finest)
Cobalt Blue (Golden) *

Grumbacher (Napthol) Red(Grumbacher Academy)
Alizarin Crimson Hue(Tri-Art)

Cadmium Yellow Medium(Grumbacher Academy) *
Yellow Ochre(Venetian) *

Phthalo Green BS(Grumbacher Finest)

Paynes Grey(Finity) *

Burnt Sienna(Venetian) *
Raw Umber(Grumbacher Academy)

Titanium White(Grumbacher Academy)

Again, once these paints run out, I will make the switch to artist grade paint.

J.W.
09-01-2003, 03:50 PM
My current watercolor palette, Daniel Smith brand colors. Beginning in the lower right corner, moving counterclockwise

Quinacridone Gold
Perinone Orange
Pyrol Red
Quinacridone Coral
Quinacridone Red
Quinacridone Sienna
Quinacridone Burnt Orange
Italian Burnt Sienna
Burnt Umber
Sepia
Quinacridone Violet
Indanthrone Blue
Ultramarine Blue
Cobalt Blue
Pthalo Blue
Cobalt Teal Blue
Undersea Green
Sap Green
Green Gold
Cadmium Yellow Light
Hansa Yellow
Hansa Yellow Deep
Raw Sienna

And in the middle, the sea of chaos from which my paintings spring. I use other colors from time to time, but these are the regulars. My oil and acrylic palettes are similar to this setup, but with fewer colors, maybe 12 each.

Matt

Miss Vicky
09-04-2003, 12:06 PM
Greetings
My palette depends on what the subject is. I usually paint in oils.
The colors I used mostly:
T-white
T-blue
Sap green,& T-blue
Diox-purple
Cad-yellow medium and light
Cad-red-medium
Van-dyke brown
Burnt umber and sienna
Ivory black
I sometimes like mixing my own blacks, mostly using Ultramarine blue-deep and Van-dyke brown.
I also used on occasion cobalt blue, cad-orange, yellow ochre, indian red and zinc white for transparency
Since I have a limited income the brands are W&N, Daler-Rowney Georgian, and Amsterdam oil colors. Some of these paints are thick, some loose, some opaque, and some transparent. This is allright with me depending on if I'm using brush, palette knife or fingers:D I love to experiment, explore colors, have happy little accidents, just have fun it's a learning experience always.
Blessings
Have an eventful and creative day all
Miss Vicky;)

I'm a little artist short and stout
Here is my brush, here is my paint
When I get inspired just watch and see
I'll paint you vision and give you dreams
(sung to tune of I'm a little teapot)
I'm always updating this little ditty

Gaart
09-10-2003, 11:43 PM
I am not too picky about my paints. I would like to be able to afford only the best but right now I buy what ever is at wal mart usually.
But my pallet begins with purple and yellow. acrlyic

I am mixing a purple from Crimson and Ultramarine Blue right now and then using Cad yellow.
I add other colors as needed.
Ultra. Blue,
Yellow ochre
aliz. crimson
bt umber
bt sienna
grumbacher red
cerulean blue.
tit white.
cad yellow med
ivory black


Using a method taught my my painting instructor. Will post it when I have the bugs worked out, if you'd like.

Chardin-devotee
09-17-2003, 02:03 AM
I am picky about paints, but nothing else. I use Williamsburg above all, but also Old Holland, Schminke Mussini, and Blockx oil paints.

My colors:

Titanium White, Flake, Cremnitz, and Zinc.

Cadmium Red, Cadmium Orange, Quinacridone Red, Persian Rose, Alzarin Crimson, Alizarin Orange

Cadmium Yellow, Alizarin Yellow, Indian Yellow

Burnt Sienna, Burnt Umber, Yellow Ochre, Mars Yellow Deep

Quinacridone Violet, Egyptian Violet

Ultramarine Blue, Cobalt Blue, Ptalo Blue

Viridian, Cadmium Green, Permanent Green, Sap Green

bexar215
10-15-2003, 03:38 AM
Speaking of palettes, can anyone tell me how someone blind chooses a palette of colors and paints realism or impressionism? for instances at www.lisafittipaldi.com I have been looking at these paintings and am mystified how it is done....any insight would be helpful. i am writing a research paper on color and keep going back to the theories behind color mixing but do not paint myself. So help please

Craig Houghton
11-24-2003, 02:31 AM
Hey everyone. I gave my palette it's own thread here (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148469). It's called the Oppositional Earth Palette. Hey, it's not everyday someone names their palette ;)

-Craig

prairie painter
11-25-2003, 01:31 AM
Interesting way you attacked the problems you were having with mixing.
Personally, I named my pallette "Fred".

Khadres
02-04-2004, 10:41 PM
In Eric Hebborn's excellent book "the Art Forger's Handbook" (Overlook Press; ISBN: 0879517670, out of print) has quite a few palettes used by famous artists, and if i remember correctly, Rubens' is also in there.

Ron van den Boogaard (http://home.wanadoo.nl/brainbox)

I know this is in response to a very old message, but I had to try finding this book and lo and behold they HAVE a copy on www.half.com.....trouble is the price....a cool $1,000!!! We'll have to let you tell us what's in it, I guess! Sounds fascinating!

Sooz

gnu
02-06-2004, 03:04 AM
I work mostly in acrylica nd Coloured pencil..
For acrylics I have been doing something different in my palette..My own Idea as far as I know...
I have been mixing tit. white AND burnt umber for mid to light tones to every colour, and burnt umber only to those colours which need darks..
the overall effect is pastelly(but still strong colouring) and warm...
I just love what burnt umber does to the colours..it's neat..
If I want very light colour in parts, I use white only to the colours..and of course can use white and burnt umber separately in their own right..
I'm sticking with this for a while..and I have started the palette with knife technique..two new things at once..
I try to use two primaries one secondary or vice versa mainly to keep limited palette for each painting..plus I love this style in monotone as well..

I just love having my own 'rule' to go by..I'm sure it will give me a colour style...
I like cad red light, cad medium yellow, ultramarine, pthalo blue, emerald green, diox purple,and jeune brilliant.. plus I use touches of magenta and other reds..other greens.have some red gold, interference gold and cobalt turquoise light still to try...

Wayne Gaudon
02-19-2004, 07:23 AM
keeps changing but today it's like this and I choose what I want from these colors but the basic is what I think I need for a pariticular painting
cad yell light
cad yell med
naples yellow
yellow ocher
burnt sienna
raw sienna
trans yellow oxide
cad red middle
quin red
quin magenta
light red
alz crimson
cad orange
trans red oxide
thalo green
thalo green/yellow
vert green
cobalt blue
cer blue
ultra blue
thalo blue
di purple
payne's grey
ivory black

Yee haw .. use 'em as I need 'em

Miss Vicky
02-19-2004, 12:26 PM
Greetings All
I just started using some new colors (for me that is), naples yellow, raw sienna and a another color which I do not know the name of, but it seems like a cross between burnt sienna and A crimson(donated to me by lovely daughter). I like these colors(I think I like all colors :rolleyes: I haven't seen a color I don't like yet) make some beautiful skin tones.
Blessings
Miss Vicky :D

MsLilypond
02-20-2004, 12:42 PM
Hey everyone. I gave my palette it's own thread here (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148469). It's called the Oppositional Earth Palette. Hey, it's not everyday someone names their palette ;)

-Craig
That just made my head hurt. I think I may have to print out and reread it a couple of times.

Kitty Wallis
03-17-2004, 04:21 AM
I like the split primary palette, because I paint with primary and secondary colors mostly and like to mix clean colors.

Primrose or Lemon yellow
Golden Yellow
Napthol Red Light
Quinacridone Magenta
Pthalo Blue Green Shade
Ultramarine Blue
Titanium White

Others, rarely used:
Pthalo Green
Carbazole Violet
Transoparent Red Ochre
Quinacridone Green Gold
Quiacridone Crimson
Maroon Oxide Red Shade
Burnt Umber

esayer
03-17-2004, 10:50 AM
Hi.
I'm surprised no one has talked about the use of blacks as opposed to mixing black using raw umber and prussian blue. The quality of hues obtainable with this method are much more saturated and lush, especially for the landscape and portraits.

esayer
03-17-2004, 10:54 AM
I tried uploading an example of this, but all my files are too big!!

mcmatz
03-17-2004, 07:33 PM
Golden Paints makes primary cyan, primary magenta and primary blue which, I believe, emulate the printing CYM triad.

Madeline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ruth
[B]Acrylics:

Titanium White
Quinacridone magenta
Phthalocyanine blue
Transparent yellow

These colors fit in the CYM triad instead of the RYB. They are more like the colors of ink used in color printers. You can mix gorgeous colors, luscious greens, oranges, purples. They're transparent and very strong colors and I love 'em. These are the ones I take with me when traveling. Nothing else is needed.

Hi Ruth

you mention that these colours simulate the CYM triad.
I was wondering if you or anybody on the list can tell me why none of the paint manufacturers actually make paints exactly the same colours as the CYM printer inks?

George

piazzi
03-23-2004, 09:38 AM
I work mainly in WC, have plans to try Acrylics

these are WC pigments I use

Holbein Aureolin - PY3 arylide yellow + PY42 synthetic yellow iron oxide (WN Gold Ochre)
WN winsor yellow - PY154 benzimidazolone yellow
WN new gamboge - PY153 nickel dioxine yellow
WN quinacridone gold - PO49 quinacridone deep gold - my very favorite pigment
WN scarlet lake - PR188 naphthol AS BON arylamide
WN Winsor red - PR254 diketo-pyrrolo pyrrole red
WN quinacridone red - PR209 quinacridone red
WN permanent alizarin crimson - PR N/A quinacridone pyrrolidone +PR206 quinacridone maroon
WN permanent magenta - PV19 beta quinacridone
WN french ultramarine blue - PB29 sodium aluminum sulfosilicate
WN winsor blue RS - PB15:1 alpha copper phthalocyanine
WN insor blue GS - PB15:3 beta copper phthalocyanine
Holbein cerulean blue - PB35 cobalt tin oxide
WN winsor green BS - PG7 chlorinated copper phthalocyanine


these are what I have on the side

WN Burnt sienna
WN Yellow Ochre
Da Vinci Raw Sienna - PBr7 natural iron oxide
WN Gold Ochre - PY42 synthetic yellow iron oxide
Holbein Peacock Blue - PB17 trisulphonated copper phthalocyanine
Holbein cobalt violet light - PV14 cobalt phosphate
WN winsor violet - PV23 dioxazine violet
WN permanent sap green - PG36 (chlorobrominated copper phthalocyanine ) +PO49

blondheim12
04-24-2004, 08:03 AM
It's funny how our palettes evolve over time. I was looking back through this thread reading my old palette.
Here is the one I use now. It changes from season to season slightly, since I am a plein air painter. I don't always use all these but they are in my pochade box all the time.

Love,
Linda

tit white
lead white
paynes grey
naples yellow
cad lemon
cad light
trans red iron oxide
thalo blue
prussian blue
thalo green
fr ultramarine blue
cad red light
rose or perm alizarin crimson

Mikey
06-19-2004, 10:48 AM
I began with Michael Wilcoxes recommended six colours: Ultramarine, Cerulean, or Thalo Blue, Cadmium Red Light, Quin. Red, Cadmium Yellow Deep, Hansa Yellow, plus Titanium White. I could mix to almost anything with that combination. I then began to use oxides and earth colours for a more toned down palette. I've recently tried Pyrrole Red to see if it can replace Cadmium Red. If I want a really solid black, the Anthro Blue mixed with Burnt Umber is best. The Anthro Blue isn't so strong in tinting power as Thalo Blue. I presently paint with acrylics, but when I buy some oils would like to try genuine Naples Yellow in the belief it's far better to use light colours when mixing to lighter tones.

Mikey

killerkatt
09-21-2004, 10:35 AM
I have lately been using acrylics. I use a large circular piece of glass that was meant to be a small top of an end table. I mix a healthy portion of acrylic modeling paste with about equal part gloss medium in the center of the palette.

Left to right (generally):

dioxazine purple
permanent green lt
(sometimes) turquoise
cadmium red lt
quinacradone magenta
pink
alarizin crimson
cadmium yellow medium
cobalt blue
(sometimes) dab of pthalo green or blue
ultramarine blue
burnt sienna
mars black
titanium white

Mikey
09-21-2004, 07:34 PM
Usually it's a limited palette for me, but my choice with oils is as follows.

Ultramarine
Pthalo Blue
Cerulean Blue
Cobalt Blue
Burnt Sienna
Burnt Umber
Raw Sienna
Yellow Ochre
Trans Yellow Oxide
Genuine Naples Yellow Light
Cad Yellow Lemon
Cad Yellow Golden
Alizarin Crimson
Napthol Red
Cadmium Red Light
Manganese Violet
Terre Verte
Titanium White
Cremnitz White

Ultramarine is always in the palette, and Burnt Sienna is second most used. I tend to use a lot of earth colours rather than Cadmiums. I've found Napthol Red to be an extremely versatile mixer. The Cadmium Yellows are used for sunlight landscapes. An oxide red, plus magenta might be useful.

Mikey

edwardcating
09-25-2004, 09:48 PM
The logic I apply to the colors on my palette is simple: have a warm and cool version of each primary color. After that it becomes a matter of trial and preference with properties such as opacity, transparency and viscosity influencing one's likes and dislikes.

The following colors have become my standard palette:

Cadmium Yellow Light, PY35, opaque cool yellow

Hansa Yellow Medium, PY74, semi-transparent warm yellow

Yellow Ochre, PY 43, semi-transparent warm yellow earth

Cadmium Orange, PO 20, opaque orange

Cadmium Red Light, PR 108, opaque warm red

Gamblin Perylene Red, PR 149, transparent warm red with yellow undertones

Gamblin Alizarin Permanent, (PV 19, PR 149, PB 29), transparent cool red

Quinacridone Violet, PV 19, transparent, warm violet

Dioxazine Purple, PV 23, transparent, cold violet

Ultramarine Blue, PB 29, transparent warm blue

Cobalt Blue, PB 28, cool semi-transparent blue

Cerulean Blue, PB 35, opaque cool blue

Viridian Green, PG 18, transparent cool green

Cobalt Green, PG 19, semi-transparent cool green

Gamblin Permanent Green Light, (PY 74, PG 7), semi-transparent warm green

Gamblin Sap Green, (PY 83, PB 15:1, PBr 7), transparent warm green

Chromium Oxide Green, PG 17, opaque warm green

Gamblin Terre Verte, (PY 4, PG 18, PBk 9), transparent warm muted green

Burnt Sienna, PBr 7, semi-transparent warm earth red

Raw Umber, PBr 7, semi-transparent dark greenish-brown earth

Ivory black, PBk 9, semi-transparent warm black

itanium White, (PW 6, PW 4), opaque



However, a limited palette might consist of just the following colors:



Cadmium Yellow Light

Yellow Ochre

Cadmium Red Light

Alizarin Crimson or Alizarin Permanent

Ultramarine Blue

Viridian Green

Raw Umber

Burnt Sienna

Titanium White

I used just this palette for several years, and found it lacked very little. Since blues and greens generally read as cool, they may be warmed by the reds and yellows. Cad Yellow is already a cool yellow that makes beautiful lemon tints and it is easily warmed with Cad Red Light or Alizarin. The point is that all these colors' temperature may be modified with small admixtures of color. The larger palette merely allows greater flexibility and one finds it easier to mix a given color using two-part rather than three or four-part mixtures (useful when you start trying to exactly remix a color you just used the last of).

www.catingart.com http://portraitproject.tripod.com

King Rundzap
09-28-2004, 10:30 AM
Overll, my palette is pretty randomized. Some of this I already discussed in another thread, but it is relevant here, too.

Although I started out with only about seven tubes of paint when I first started painting, I have over 600 tubes of paint available now, for different media, but I paint in oils more than other media. Maybe about 350 tubes are oil paint. There are a few lines where I have the complete line, plus I have various colors from other brands and lines. It keeps growing. I like "collecting" paints and trying different paints, and I like loud, obnoxious, clashing colors, so I can get that easily with so many different paints available without having to do a lot of mixing. Although I sometimes restrict myself to maybe five to seven colors, for most paintings, I'll use far more, with no restrictions on the number of colors I can use.

When I start painting, unless I'm doing an alla prima landscape or what I call a "palette mirror" painting, I usually begin with one to three colors on my palette for the first areas of color I want to block in. If I'm doing an alla prima landscape, I always begin with a Bob Ross base coat (either liquid white, liquid black, liquid opal or liquid clear), covering the whole canvas, as I like the way those work (maybe I'd be able to mix something similar with other materials, but remember that I don't like doing that if I don't have to--if I can buy it premade, I'll do that instead). After the base coat for a landscape, I start as above.

From there, for either a "normal" painting or a landscape, I only add more paint to my palette as I need it. I don't arrange colors on my palette in any systematic way, and I don't tend to pick the same colors all the time. In fact, I'll often pick tubes that I don't think I've used in awhile, for that reason alone. I'll keep adding colors to my palette as needed until (and if) I run out of room to add more piles of paint. Sometimes, because I don't have a systematizing arrangement, I can't tell what color a pile is for sure, so I'll take a guess and use whatever it is. This leads to some nice unusual choices (maybe green where I was intending purple, etc.).

At the point where my palette is full and I can't add anything else, or when I'm finished with a session, I'll begin a palette mirror--this is an additional painting, initially very random, which uses whatever I have left on my palette as the color selection (This get completed over the course of many other "normal" paintings, and the color selections remain basically "random" throughout the palette mirror proess).

How do I pick the specific colors I'm going to use when I'm planning colors? Well, I have a number of approaches to color. Roughly, they can be broken up into three strategies, although often these will be combined in a single work.

One, sometimes I use what I see as a launching pad for what colors I'm going to use, but I'll try to exaggerate what I see, and sometimes make purely theoretical color choices for complementary areas (form-wise) depending on what I think will look funny or bizarre. As an example, if I'm using a photographic reference and a subject's skin has a lot of blue in it, I might choose to paint their skin mostly in different tones of phthalo blue, or I might try to use a little bit of every blue I have--making that a challenge for their skin. Or if I see a lot of purple in a tree trunk, I might give it purple stripes.

Two, I often just choose colors on a whim or a combination of whim and subtextual significance. If I'm painting an interior with a lot of yellow walls, I might go for a lot of purple and pink for the furniture, to give it an Easter egg effect. Then I might color some items a deep green because to me it's representing Easter hay. I'd probably end up making subtle references to bunny ears, eggs, candy, etc. elsewhere in the painting, even though it might not superficially have anything to do with Easter. Again, to pick out particular hues of purple and pink, say, I'll often try to use a color I haven't
used in awhile. It might be more interesting to keep a tally of what I used and rotate them; I may start doing this in the future, or I may start doing more of modification of scheme three mentioned in the last paragraph below:

Three, especially when painting landscapes, I like to use different one-to-one mapping schemes for choosing colors. Before I start, I'll make a translation chart for myself in one of many ways. These involve either shifting all colors to complementary colors, or to the primary or secondary "one click of the same type over" clockwise or counterclockwise (so blue becomes red or yellow, orange becomes green or purple), or from a primary to the next color "one click over regardless of type" clockwise or counterclockwise (so blue becomes purple, or blue becomes green) and finally, I'll roll dice for the mapping. In the non-dice rolling systematizations, I'll roll dice for white, black and brown. Then I paint the landscape using the "actual colors" as much as possible, but under the transpositions, instead. Occasionally, whim things will creep in, with some of those subtextual association decisions taken, too. I haven't used this one-to-one mapping transposition much in other kinds of paintings yet (other than landscapes) but I keep intending to explore that, and I'm sure I will soon, as it is very enjoyable, very much a challenge at times, and leads to some very interesting, unusual decisions that I wouldn't otherwise make.

Just for example, the last landscape I did I used the next base coat in the list (liquid opal), then I had to roll for all the colors. I tried something a bit different (usually I roll for general colors and then give myself freedom to pick particular ones) and rolled for specific tubes instead, restricting myself to only those tubes. I ended up with Yellow Ochre, Ivory Black, Indian Yellow, Prussian Blue, Emerald Green, Cobalt Violet Hue, and Alizarin Crimson. There was also a translation, so that green areas were translated to ivory black (that was quite a challenge for a landscape, but fun--at least I didn't end up with a liquid black base coat, that would have _really_ been a challenge, lol), blue to a combination of prussian blue and emerald green, yellow to cobalt violet, etc. This actually worked out very well for me, and I may try rolling for specific tubes more often in the future, too.

Oops, I just realized that maybe I didn't really answer why I do things this way. Well, for one, I'm not shooting for any kind of realism. I want bizarre "fictional" painting--surreal fantasy stuff, roughly, although leaning as much to the Miro/Klee/Picasso side of that as the Dali side. So I like to use unusual colors for things, and the schemes help with that (even occasionally picking colors unusual for my tastes through the random processes). Additionally, it appeals to my particular brand of OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder), which is geared towards lists and systematizations. Of course, the randomizing aspects might seem unusual in light of that, but in a way, they're just unusual ways of arriving at new systems/lists, and I'm also attracted to those kinds of compositional devices in the other arts, including music (ala John Cage, for example).

Diana Lee
10-12-2004, 02:31 PM
I would have to say 99% of the time I use...

Zinc Yellow
Cadmium Yellow Medium
Alizarin Crimson
Cadmium Red Medium
Ultramarine Blue
Pthalo Blue
White

Sometimes I use Burnt Umber

I prefer to mix my own colors. Playing with color is half the fun of painting for me.

TxAggieDarlin
10-13-2004, 12:23 PM
I am sooooo new to this and have only done one painting....I am trying to learn about colors (never had any art class, so when I say I am new...I am very new). This is almost overwhelming trying to take in all that you all say, but I am trying!!! Thanks for the information

jdadson
10-16-2004, 08:25 PM
I've got a big box of paints -- probably a lifetime supply, particularly if I ever choose to paint in a style that would make the Fauves cry, "Stop already with the color!" Almost every one of them was bought because of a misconception I had at the time. There are some exceptions: I have a tube of transparent iron oxide red that I bought because it was in the materials list for a painting workshop that I took from a famous painter. In the five full days of the workshop, I never got the guy cornered long enough to ask him what the stuff was for. Ditto for terre vert. When they said "Fame is fleeting," I misunderstood.

I have a tube of Winsor and Newton sap green that was a freebie when you bought four tubes of other colors you didn't need.

Some of my recent purchases have been vivid, transparent colors. I kind of liked the idea of having an MCY triad available - a kind of safety net. Of course I bought three complements to go along with them, to plug the gaps as it were. A little theory is a dangerous thing. I also bought some "chromatic black" to see if I could figure out for myself why ivory black is a controlled substance in some quarters. (The only argument that the black-banishers could muster was that I am a pig-ignorant philistine. While that may be perfectly true, it seems to me beside the point.) I have yet to do those experiments in black. I'll keep you posted the minute there's a new development.

I have a tube of iridescent white that I thought might be good for some interesting effects. (It isn't.)

Maybe next I'll try to emulate the great masters by restricting my palette to cow urine and various types of mud.

I also have a nice collection of mediums. (Media?) I have an almost full and very expensive tube of cottage-industry Maroger that was touted by the transparent red iron oxide guy. I'm not using it because 1) it turns out Rembrandt didn't use the stuff after all, 2) some folks say it will eventually turn turn black and crack, and 3) it stinks. Oh, and 4) it's poison. I hate it when my lists have four things.

This all reminds me of a stage I went through in my development as a saxophone player. That stage lead to what I like to call "my mouthpiece collection." At some point I quit trying to buy sound and started learning to make it with my mouth and fingers. I expect to reach that point in my painting career in about two years, possibly three. (Not that I will paint with my mouth, mind you, particularly not with Maroger medium.) Until that happy day, I will build "my paint collection."

King Rundzap
10-17-2004, 09:31 AM
I've got a big box of paints -- probably a lifetime supply, particularly if I ever choose to paint in a style that would make the Fauves cry, "Stop already with the color!"


I resemble that remark.


I have a tube of Winsor and Newton sap green that was a freebie when you
bought four tubes of other colors you didn't need.


I need all of them :-)


I have a tube of iridescent white that I thought might be good for some interesting effects. (It isn't.)


I love the iridescent, interference, fluorescent, etc. colors--allows me to be even more obnoxious than usual :wink2:

Jdadson, your writing in this post is very smooth and wry--I love it! You should turn this sort of stuff into a column and try getting published (if you haven't already).

Einion
10-17-2004, 12:28 PM
A little theory is a dangerous thing.
So true.

A little theory is a dangerous thing. I also bought some "chromatic black" to see if I could figure out for myself why ivory black is a controlled substance in some quarters. (The only argument that the black-banishers could muster was that I am a pig-ignorant philistine. While that may be perfectly true, it seems to me beside the point.)
ROFL nicely put :)

I have a tube of iridescent white that I thought might be good for some interesting effects. (It isn't.)
LOL

Maybe next I'll try to emulate the great masters by restricting my palette to cow urine and various types of mud.
Hey, don't be too hard on the cow urine, one of our members thinks it's the most important yellow ever made :D

I also have a nice collection of mediums. (Media?)
In this context, mediums.

Nice comment on the Maroger's medium :clap:

Transparent Red Iron Oxide is good for mixing transparent darks with a semi-transparent or transparent blue, if you'd like to keep your darks thin and transparent as per tradition. It's also an excellent glaze colour, it's already so transparent you shouldn't generally need to add any medium. At its best it and its yellow cousin are two of the most transparent paints made so they are unbeatable as glazers if you find a use for their specific colour.

Terre Verte is a traditional underpainting colour for fleshtones as you probably know. Since most are now made from simple mixtures of other pigments I can't see the point of buying it myself either. If it's genuine it tends to be gritty, something I absolutely hate and is certainly not as admired as it used to be, and very weak and transparent. So let's just say its uses are limited! It's also pointedly obvious that most of us don't paint fleshtones that way today either so one has to wonder about it being 'necessary' unless you're being taught to paint exactly that technique.

Einion

Mikey
10-17-2004, 04:03 PM
Einion,

I do have Tranparent Yellow Oxide in Michael Harding oils and this was at your recommendation. It is as useful as you say and excellent for grounds as it drys quickly. Transparent Red Oxide is still on my shopping list.

I bought MH Terre Verte out of interest. It is a genuine pigment, but doesn't seem particularly grainy to me. It's use for underpainting for most of us today would seem to be very difficult. I can only imagine the problems of planning the painting ahead without a tremendous depth of experience.

Now perhaps you would like to comment on my unscientific thinking. Pigments such as Terre Verte have large particles with a low tinting strength. Would this have made it less likely to have penetrating ability as regards the layers of glazing above? I'm thinking of Pthalo Blue, which is completely opposite, having small particles with high tinting strength. I used it with my first oil painting to mix black and for blocking in my tonal values. Having had no training for oils I tended to still use the acrylic method. It was a bad mistake. I let the paint dry painting over with a few layers, so that wasn't too bad, except wet in wet wasn't feasible at all. Yet using it to mix black with Burnt Umber or Burnt Sienna I found the Pthalo dominates far too much. This was not an experience I'd expect with rapidly drying Golden acrylics.

Michael uses natural pigment for his Raw Sienna. I suppose one shouldn't be surprised that it is very weak mixed with white. However, it does seem to be a good mixer. It still find it useful for Asian skin tones, but I really had to learn had to use it all over again as compared with the Golden paint.

These days I do the initial drawing with Burnt Sienna and put in some indication of my tonal values. That's ready for local colour. I think it must have been in June when I first began painting with oils, so I've still got much to learn.

Mikey

Einion
10-17-2004, 05:53 PM
I do have Tranparent Yellow Oxide in Michael Harding oils and this was at your recommendation. It is as useful as you say and excellent for grounds as it drys quickly. Transparent Red Oxide is still on my shopping list.
Hi Mikey, that's good to hear :) I wouldn't say either was essential but after you have them you seem to find loads of places where nothing else quite fits the bill!

Good to know the HM Terre Verte isn't particularly grainy. I agree that for many of us working today planning a fully-layered painting with complementary underpainting is pretty daunting. I suggest either working in one or two layers, basically premier coup or alla prima, or building up over a grisaille since this is comparatively easy.

Now perhaps you would like to comment on my unscientific thinking. Pigments such as Terre Verte have large particles with a low tinting strength. Would this have made it less likely to have penetrating ability as regards the layers of glazing above?
Basically yes. Very small particles can have a tendency to penetrate but not only upwards, there are cases where colloidal iron particles have penetrated lead grounds and the sizing to attack the canvas.

One does need to bear in mind that with hand-mulled pigments made from natural materials like this one of the most overlooked aspects is that the particle size in such cases in only generally large, there are also small particles and everything in between. One of the great things about modern paints is the uniformity of particle size. Whether they should be uniformly a bit larger is another issue :)

As regards Phthalo Blue one could argue that it should have a "Caution, handle with care" on the label given how strong it can be. With oils the pigment load can be so much higher than acrylics - perhaps double generally, much more for those brands that maximise pigmentation - it can be overpowering to say the least. There's no real remedy for this other than experience and care when mixing but if you're going to be using white in the mix anyway you could try adding the white to the blue to begin with before adding the earth, that can help. And needless to say one always starts with the other colour, not this blue.

Michael uses natural pigment for his Raw Sienna. I suppose one shouldn't be surprised that it is very weak mixed with white.
Erm, not necessarily. I don't want to comment negatively because the sources of natural iron pigments are becoming rarer so choice might be limited, and natural earths have always varied enormously. Traditionally siennas have been relatively weak, but not excessively so; he might have specifically chosen the colour to be this way, each colourman has his own tastes as to how colours should look and handle.

However, it does seem to be a good mixer. It still find it useful for Asian skin tones, but I really had to learn had to use it all over again as compared with the Golden paint.
Yes, I can imagine. I prefer more opaque colours for flesh mixes in the main, although I have used Raw Sienna for glazing in limited ways on ethnic subjects.

Einion

Mikey
10-17-2004, 06:03 PM
Many thanks or the quick and detailed reply Einion.

Mikey

bpatrick
10-31-2004, 01:03 PM
I know this may not be the right place to ask this question and I'm not sure how to start a new thread so I'll ask my question anyway.
I'd like to know if there is a substance that can change color by applying an electrical charge to it. I'd like to change from white to black or red and when the electric charge is turned off have it turn back to white.
Thanks.

Anwar
11-16-2004, 12:22 AM
I start with Earths

Zinc white
Yellow Ochre
Mars Orange
Venetian Red
Indian Red
Mars Violet
Mars Violet deep
Ivory Black
Lamp Black
Davey's Grey
Chromium Oxide Green
Zinc Titanate yellow

Then I mix in full color to bring up as needed
Titanium White
Cad yellow pale
Cad Yellow Deep
Cad orange
Cad red light
Cad red deep
Mangeneze Violet
Cobalt Blue
Viridian

Sometimes that's not enough so I may include others
Pthalo Blue
Quinacridone Red and Rose
Isoindilone Yellow
Pthalo Green

From this large palette I choose the minumum number of colors required to produce the picture. This is often only 5 or 6 pigments..

Often, my paintings can be a tad heavy and dark just so you know. Similar to 17th century stuff.

Phoenix Rising
11-21-2004, 09:50 PM
I agree with whoever it was who said that it's amazing how much things change in time. I've really changed my palette lately. Of course, sometimes this palette will change, depending on sibject, but these are the ones that I turn to most of the time:

Ultramarine blue
Phthalo Blue
Quinacridone Gold
Cad Yellow light
Aureolin
Cad red medium(a little goes a LONG way)
Burnt Sienna

Katherine T
02-05-2005, 01:10 PM
I was a bit surprised when reading this thread to see so many words and lists and so few pictures of palettes and colours.

So here's mine. There are no blacks and no greys - but a there are a few coloured greys. For those not familiar with the use of coloured pencils - many of the colours in paintings are very intense because of the use of layered colours of different hues - and sometimes very many layers.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Feb-2005/48045-My_new_electric_sharpener.jpg

And my favourite colours (ie "my palette") are all the short ones! However, my banner is not entirely representative of this as it has been a mix of these colours since I first put up a banner and I thought I needed a change as I've been experimenting with using new colours - like red! :D

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Feb-2005/48045-My_colour_signature.jpg

And I use the colours that appeal to me and the ones which give the best results in terms of a picture that pleases me.

I tend to think that it's the makes I use - rather than the colours - which have more to do with how they mix on the page or board.

Katherine

Mikey
02-05-2005, 01:21 PM
What a palette. Wow. Here's mine for the painting in question. Cobalt Bue I think is not showing and Cad Red is covered by my brush.

Mikey

Anwar
02-05-2005, 10:42 PM
I start with Earths
OOOOEEEEE!

I've added a few more and they are great but very expensive....

Cobalt Green light
Cobalt Green chromite
Cobalt Turquoise
Indian Yellow Deep

Zinc white
Yellow Ochre
Mars Orange
Venetian Red
Indian Red
Mars Violet
Mars Violet deep
Ivory Black
Lamp Black
Davey's Grey
Chromium Oxide Green
Zinc Titanate yellow

Then I mix in full color to bring up as needed
Titanium White

And I've taken a few away....
omit the following...
{Cad yellow pale
Cad Yellow Deep
Cad orange
Cad red light
Cad red deep} these feel harsh to me and phoney looking

Still like these....
Mangeneze Violet
Cobalt Blue
Viridian

Sometimes that's not enough so I may include others
(but this never happened yet and I hope never does cause these colors are garish to me)
Pthalo Blue
Quinacridone Red and Rose
Isoindilone Yellow
Pthalo Green

From this large palette I choose the minumum number of colors required to produce the picture. This is often only 5 or 6 pigments..

Often, my paintings can be a tad heavy and dark just so you know. Similar to 17th century stuff.

Anwar
02-05-2005, 10:53 PM
Actually, here let me address the actual request....I use every color on Winsor Newtons AA permanence list only. Everything on that list is open game although I still choose frugally from that large but limited list. My reason is that I intend to make permanent images and banish moderately permanent colors or those with only a single A permanence. My first choice are the opaque ones for general painting and transparent or semitransparent ones for touching up. All in all I would say that my palette is muted especially around the orange/amber/ red range.... Such is life.

Einion
03-11-2005, 03:58 AM
All in all I would say that my palette is muted especially around the orange/amber/ red range.... Such is life.
Your palette certainly wasn't limited in this region so I'm surprised you elected to deliberately reduce chroma in this part of the spectrum unless your subject matter just doesn't require it?

I'm curious, do you have any true oranges or reds left or are you happy with just earths? Even the Dutch masters would have had at least two decent reds at their disposal, perhaps even three ;)

Einion

Anwar
03-11-2005, 10:01 PM
Your palette certainly wasn't limited in this region so I'm surprised you elected to deliberately reduce chroma in this part of the spectrum unless your subject matter just doesn't require it?

I'm curious, do you have any true oranges or reds left or are you happy with just earths? Even the Dutch masters would have had at least two decent reds at their disposal, perhaps even three ;)

Einion

Hi There!,

To answer your question..."I am happy with just Earths"..... Actually I think Light Red, Venetian Red and Indian Red are glorious.

Einion
03-15-2005, 08:53 PM
Hiya, sorry for the delay in getting back to you but I got sidetracked. I love Light Red/Red Oxide myself but I don't consider them truly reds, Caravaggio might have but Vermeer didn't, hence the two reds on his palette :)

Einion

Anwar
03-18-2005, 12:18 AM
Hiya, sorry for the delay in getting back to you but I got sidetracked. I love Light Red/Red Oxide myself but I don't consider them truly reds, Caravaggio might have but Vermeer didn't, hence the two reds on his palette :)

Einion


Hey What happening yo.. uuuuh yea!.. Hey bro/brodette what you thinkin... think Vermeer considered the oxide reds to be ....BROWNS?? I've seen many of his in person and I think there brews some confusion garnered via restoration professionals. They sit there looking like gems in the museum but one doesnt get the feeling these were the actual colors used... Seems like they are played up to appeal in a psycologically similar way as the originals would have done to the audience back then.....

arttra56
05-01-2005, 10:17 PM
I subscribe to the limited palette used by The School of Colour.

Orange-Red, Opaque: Cadmium Red Light
Violet-Red, Transparent: Quinacridone Violet

Orange-Yellow, Opaque: Cadmium Yellow Light
Green-Yellow, Semi-Transparent: Hansa Yellow Light (Lemon Yellow)

Green-Blue, Opaque: Cerulean Blue
Violet-Blue, Transparent: Ultramarine Blue

All these paints contain lightfast pigments, which won't harm your work. I used to use 'Alizarin Crimson' for my Violet-Red until I realised it fades and is unreliable.

If I use white I use Titanium white, there are some other important colours but these 6 produce virtually every imaginable mix.

Some great references that will help are 'the guide to selcting colors' and 'blue and Yellow Don't Make Green' both have changed my palette and how I mix colors. The authors web site is www.schoolofcolor.com

Its worth having a look, as its really helped me, their system works for me.

Regards Den

Anwar
05-02-2005, 12:08 AM
Hi Den,

I figure your right on with that palette only I would not refer to it as a "limited palette" myself. My idea of a limited palette is one that wont allow for certain undesirable colors. I.E. one limited palette for flesh might be venetian red, Ivory black, yellow ochre and Lead White. With this limited palette one can get a general range of color for various flesh tones in natural lighting with out having to battle garish colors enroute. To this limited palette one might add an extra color or two to better clinch the color. I think your palette is a "maximal" palette in that it seems designed to achieve the greatest possible range with the minimal number of pigments. All of the pigments being decently light fast under ordinary conditions. Good for you!

Richard Saylor
05-03-2005, 09:42 PM
Den and Anwar: The largest gamut possible with a six color palette is based on cyan, magenta, yellow, and the "secondaries" red-orange, green, and blue-violet. This is the so-called "secondary" or "complementary" pallette. According to Bruce MacEvoy, a good selection of colors for this would be: hansa yellow, cadmium red orange, quinacridone rose, ultramarine blue, phthalocyanine cyan, phthalocyanine green YS. Anyhow, the gamut of the six-color dual (warm-cool) RYB palette is demonstrably smaller than that of the "secondary" palette.

FriendCarol
05-03-2005, 10:15 PM
What Richard said is true; I saw that palette myself just a few days ago. I figured I should say this since apparently Mr. MacEvoy is busily revising handprint.com pages, and at this moment, I can only find his 12-color basic palette, and not the 6-color one. ;)

Richard Saylor
05-03-2005, 11:03 PM
Carol, try locating topics using the site map - http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/wmap.html

Mikey
05-04-2005, 05:16 AM
Richard, it seems to me that we should all aquire a foundational knowledge of colour mixing by using such a pallete. however I eventually found the need to quieten it with earth colours. I resort to Cadmium Yellows, for example, when I need that extra strength. Is it possible that artists who use the basic pallete you suggest will generally produce paintings which have higher chroma colours? In favour of a simple pallete I find it is all too easy to allow a ready made colour to dominate part of a painting. Would you say that mixing colours throughout a painting gives it a better unity?

Mikey

FriendCarol
05-04-2005, 07:29 AM
Carol, try locating topics using the site mapI did. ;) The internal link to basic palette now lists the 12-color one; I looked over the page (not actually re-reading everything), and I even looked around in some of the colorwheel [sic!?!] pages on gamut. Maybe the short list will be restored soon, or maybe it was hiding somewhere I didn't think to look last night. :D

Richard Saylor
05-04-2005, 01:10 PM
Would you say that mixing colours throughout a painting gives it a better unity?
It seems to work that way for me, Mikey.

arttra56
05-06-2005, 02:11 AM
Dear Richard

Re: The largest gamut possible with a six color palette is based on cyan, magenta, yellow...

I beg to differ, this combination has been around for a while, but there is definately a better 6 colour palette, which is based on a completely new system, it doesn't use black, and it will produce a far greater range of mixes than the cyan, magenta, yellow etc palette.

I am not sure if you are familiar with The School of Color, but if I could be so bold as to suggest having a look at the book by Michael Wilcox 'Blue & Yellow Don't Make Green' it may or may not change your opinion. The 6 colour palette by Michael Wilcox is scientifically proven and tested and I believe it to be the best and most advanced system of colour mixing for artists around.

When you go to the web site www.schoolofcolor.com have a look at the palette (located with the book 'Blue & Yellow') and then have a look at his selection of colours he uses under the 'paint selection', looking at both will give you a good idea of hoe his system works.

I would recommend any artist who wants to get the most from their palette to read this book and go to the web site.

Den

Mikey
05-06-2005, 04:48 AM
Den,

I began by using Michael's system of six colour mixing and it is still the basis for what I do. However, I do find it advantageous to tone the pigments down for portraits and often my yellow will be Raw Sienna or Yellow Ochre. Naples Light doesn't seem to fit into his scheme of things, but again it is truly useful for portraits. However, Michael himself doesn't seem to suggest that we should be stuck with six colours and offers lots of information about other pigments.

Mikey

Richard Saylor
05-06-2005, 03:53 PM
Dear Richard

Re: The largest gamut possible with a six color palette is based on cyan, magenta, yellow...

I beg to differ, this combination has been around for a while, but there is definately a better 6 colour palette, which is based on a completely new system, it doesn't use black, and it will produce a far greater range of mixes than the cyan, magenta, yellow etc palette.
The six color secondary palette is, huewise, almost the same as the split-primary Wilcox palette except that in place of the two closely spaced yellows it uses a middle yellow and a middle green. It's easy enough to plot the two palettes on a visual color wheel and observe that the gamut of the secondary palette is broader.

There's nothing particularly sacred about "primary" colors unless one is paring down a palette to the minimum number of colors, which I enjoy doing as it seems to facilitate color unity and harmony in a painting. (Black, by the way, is definitely not needed, but it can be convenient.) Otherwise, a split-primary palette is going to have a crescent-shaped slice of high chroma greens missing from the gamut. It can be argued, hiowever, that high chroma greens are not needed, and I agree with that as far as landscape painting is concerned. Also, I will readily concede that the Wilcox split-primary palette is superior to Nita Leland's, which (for some reason I can't fathom) has been adopted by a mob of watercolorists here at WC.

Einion
05-07-2005, 11:28 AM
Nicely put Richard http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Aug-2003/3842-thumbsup.gif

Einion

jdadson
05-13-2005, 08:52 PM
Dear Richard

Re: The largest gamut possible with a six color palette is based on cyan, magenta, yellow...

I beg to differ, this combination has been around for a while, but there is definately a better 6 colour palette, which is based on a completely new system, it doesn't use black, and it will produce a far greater range of mixes than the cyan, magenta, yellow etc palette.

I am not sure if you are familiar with The School of Color, but if I could be so bold as to suggest having a look at the book by Michael Wilcox 'Blue & Yellow Don't Make Green' it may or may not change your opinion. The 6 colour palette by Michael Wilcox is scientifically proven and tested and I believe it to be the best and most advanced system of colour mixing for artists around.

When you go to the web site www.schoolofcolor.com have a look at the palette (located with the book 'Blue & Yellow') and then have a look at his selection of colours he uses under the 'paint selection', looking at both will give you a good idea of hoe his system works.

I would recommend any artist who wants to get the most from their palette to read this book and go to the web site.

Den

Are you associated with that "school" by any chance? If so, please disclose your association.

On your assertion that the Wilcox palette has a wider gamut, you are wrong; Richard is right. Richard assuredly doesn't need me to confirm his statements, but I can provide a link to MacEvoy's pages. I believe I posted this link elsewhere in response to one of your several messages touting the Wilcox system. Here is the six-paint palette that yeilds the widest gamut of colors, given the pigments that are available today:

http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/palette4e.html

It comprizes light yellow, middle green, cyan, deep blue, magenta, and scarlet. The cited page also has links to analysis, by the site's author, of the Wilcox system.

FriendCarol
05-14-2005, 11:42 AM
On your assertion that the Wilcox palette has a wider gamut, you are wrong; Richard is right.Richard (Richard Saylor) is practically always right. Sometimes, though, he'll crack a joke (without a smiley), which usually misleads me. I'm so easily baited. ;)
Here is the six-paint palette that yeilds [sic] the widest gamut of colors, given the pigments that are available today:
http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/palette4e.html

It comprizes [sic] light yellow, middle green, cyan, deep blue, magenta, and scarlet. The cited page also has links to analysis, by the site's author, of the Wilcox system.Thanks for the reference -- wondered to which page that 6-pigment 'basic palette' had migrated. Handprint.com is frequently updated, which I mention now because I cannot find the analysis of the Wilcox sytem (currently) on that page. ;) So, here's the link:
http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/book3.html#wilcox

Neeman
05-14-2005, 04:00 PM
Also, I will readily concede that the Wilcox split-primary palette is superior to Nita Leland's


Richard.

I am confused!
What is Nita Leland's palette?

I have photocopies of some pages of one of her books, where she creates triads from pigment properties, more than a formal split palette.

(from memory!)
Saturated
Unsaturated
Standard
Opaque
Old Master
Delicate

She then tells you to mix and match these triads, but not according to split primaries.

Neeman.

Richard Saylor
05-14-2005, 08:13 PM
Richard.

I am confused!
What is Nita Leland's palette?


http://www.nitaleland.com/articles/split.htm
http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/color5.html#splitprimary

Meg Ilp
08-11-2005, 01:18 PM
My palette has only been limited by what I've been able to buy so far, and I've bought a lot.

But:

I'm not trying to precisely match any colors I see elsewhere.

I'm not trying to predict or control exactly what will happen when I have any particular mixture--I'd rather have unexpected things happen. I like to exploit "accidents", "mistakes" or the unexpected, that's one of the major "themes" of my work. I'm one of those "If I knew what a painting was going to look like before I painted it, I wouldn't bother" artists. If I begin to get something I don't like, I simply change it. If I mix colors that I don't like the look of, I mix something else instead. if it's on the support and I need to change it, I just paint over it, or wait until it dries and paint over it. It's very rare that I don't like or change anything completely though. I usually exploit whatever it is instead, modifying it with other things, but retaining the initial character, too.

I'm also not worried about color changes and fugitiveness, partially because of the above reasons (I didn't try to precisely match anything and I like unexpected results), and partially because I haven't really experienced those problems in works I've completed that I've had sitting around for some time. I also don't worry about permanence when it comes to media, supports, etc. I've used all kinds of stuff that professionals aren't supposed to use. Most of it has held up pretty good. If it doesn't hold up good, I've got pictures of it (and now digital files, plenty of back-ups, etc.). I want to explore things, experiment, go places I haven't gone before, and again, exploit the unexpected, "accidents", and so on. That's a large part of what art is to me, and that process/those experiences are as important as any other facet of my work. Maybe not all of my work will be in perfect condition 200 years from now, but to me, it seems pretty presumptuous to figure that most of it won't be landfill 200 years from now anyway.

So I never really use the same combination of paints on my palette twice, and I buy new paint often enough (almost every time I have to get any art supplies) that I rarely run out of old tubes. I always try to buy something that I didn't have before. I much more frequently have to toss out old tubes because the paint dried in them than because I emptied them (I am pretty sloppy sometimes and tubes don't always close as well as I'd like them too). I usually buy a new tube of whatever it was and buy some color or combo I didn't have before at the same time.

FriendCarol
08-11-2005, 01:45 PM
That's an interesting approach to art. Must be fun!

The argument for using only lightfast paints and surfaces, etc., is often made by watercolorists. Their art has long been treated as secondary, in part because traditionally, watercolor paintings have not held up well over time. In order to create a decent 'market' (a purely commercial concern, I agree), professional artists try to teach one another, now, to use 'archival' materials.

I'm a watercolorist, so I try to use lightfast paints, relying on information I find at handprint.com, though I certainly don't do my own testing. Even though I am not a professional, and don't really hope to sell much, I use professional materials. I consider it simply a courtesy, or respect, due from me to the other, professional, artists.

This has no bearing on what you consider appropriate for yourself, of course. I'm simply putting the reason on the record, for subsequent readers. ;)

maria_khurram
08-18-2005, 07:00 AM
Basic palette for any kind of skintones. I use a wider palette. That palette I used when I was a begginer.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Aug-2005/59753-wchelp22.jpg
And some colors for hair.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Aug-2005/59753-colors_of_hair.jpg

BrideOfTyr
08-25-2005, 09:38 AM
My palette consists of...

Ultramarine
Cadmium Yellow Med Hue
Cadmium Red Med Hue
Burnt Umber
Mars Black
Titanium White

I like to mix my own shades so I have the primaries plus white and black. Burnt umber because I like to have a brown ready mixed.

FriendCarol
08-25-2005, 10:12 AM
Welcome to WC! :) What medium do you use -- I assume it's oil or acrylics? Possibly both?

Dyin
09-16-2005, 11:49 PM
I just got my first oils after using pastels, oil pastels and Paintstiks. I've always had a kazillion color choices and learned to layer colors for exact shades wanted, but instinct only got me so far and I usually had to adjust way more than should have been necessary.
I did learn kind of which colors seemed to be the most useful to me in making mixes so bought my colors with that in mind. I should also mention that my early tries at color mixing years ago got me mud and more mud :p
I got the book Creative Color A Practical Guide for Oil Painters by Wendon Blake and am using his suggestions for color mixing, although I do have a different palette. I've been mixing colors every day for a week and a half and have about another week to go.
I'm absolutely blown away with the colors I've made. I started out with about 8 colors and black and titanium (I do have flake and zinc as optionals), but I added some other colors because I couldn't get some color mixes I wanted with my base palette. I have 15 colors and black and white now and I'll put them all on my palette each time because the optionals make some lovely colors with the base colors.
I have Shiva oils...here's the palette clockwise

Cereleun Blue (a different shade than pastels I've had...not greenish)
Turquoise (pthlalo based but not quite as strong as pure)
Shiva Blue Light
Indian Yellow
Yellow Ochre
Brilliant yellow light
titanium white
Cad Red Scarlet
Alizarin Crimson
Rose Red (oh the violets!)
Naples yellow
Raw Sienna
Burnt Umber (never knew what fantastic grays you'd get with this in a mix)
Ivory Black (nice for some greens)
Cobalt Violet light
Asphaltum
Golden Ochre

I've yet to do the black mixes, white tints and grays in test swatches but can't see the need right now for any other color. I've got a couple hundred or more good mixes so far and I've learned so much about the properties of each color doing these tests. I've also written a little synopsis on each color and the base mix tendancies of the primaries, secondaries and browns so if I didn't use some colors at first I wouldn't forget how they act in tertiary mixes. I never understood you techies over here, but boy, I now get the fascination with it all and I'm having the time of my life doing these mixes and can't wait to start using them in actual paintings :D

And the biggest surprise of all for me is that I actually have a lot more color choices than I did when I owned hundreds of pastel sticks and can make the color I need faster than I could search for it in my pastel box too :clap:

artjunkie101
09-20-2005, 09:33 PM
Hmm...I know virtually nothing about color theory, etc, as I am relatively new to the world of painting, but I'll share what I use anyway. :) Also, as a disclaimer, I should say that I paint in a primarily pop art style, with flat colors, etc, so I'm not really going for a wide range of tones. I use primarily Winsor & Newton Galeria acrylics (have yet to try oils, don't even know what brand my watercolors are :p).

~Cadmium Red Hue (used to use Crimson, but am much happier with the more orangey tones of the cadmium)

~Cadmium Yellow Medium hue

~Winsor Blue (not so happy with this, esp with regards to transparency, but I've found that adding a little bit of Titanium white gets it much closer to the shade I'm looking for)

~Hooker's Green (this one is Grumbacher Academy--also not as pleased with this, although I've used it with some yellow and white and gotten a nice limey color. But I don't use green much anyway)

~Burnt Sienna (I think...) This with titanium white is all I need to make a very nice "pop art" skin tone

~Titanium White

~Mars Black

I also have Dioxazine Purple, which I used exactly once, in a very small quantity, to darken a red. I only bought it since I have never in my life been able to mix a purple I liked.

And that's my palette. I have no "theory" whatsoever to it--I've just trying to find colors to suit my style and the painting. I like the very limited palette, since I find it helps unify the painting and makes my life easier. But I imagine if I ever decide to switch to strict realism it will be frustrating.

Interesting forum and thread. :)

Saera
10-06-2005, 03:25 AM
For acrylics I bought a starter's pack, which included

Primary Cyan
Mars Black
Primary Magenta (I like this, but I'd also prefer a more orange-red red; this one is too purple and when I mix it with the black it gets a dark lilac, and not dark red)
Primary Yellow
and Titanium White

I bought a 'Vandyke Brown' because I had troubles mixing a good, deep brown with the base colors.. I suppose it comes with a bit of practise, but I had no patience. ;)

For every digital work I make, I create a new palette, because I don't always work with the same colors. I actually never do, unless it's black and white. :p

Here's an example of a skintones palette I used in one of my recent paintings:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Oct-2005/61484-palett.jpg
(Well actually the ones in the lower left corner was for the eyes)

Einion
10-06-2005, 06:50 AM
Primary Magenta (I like this, but I'd also prefer a more orange-red red; this one is too purple and when I mix it with the black it gets a dark lilac, and not dark red)You need to add yellow to shift the hue. Red and orange-red are different hues to magenta, it's usually best to get the right hue first before you tackle darkening.

It's also a good idea to use mixing complements to drop chroma before darkening as this mimics the way that colours dull down in nature as they are shadowed, in this case you start by just add in careful amounts of the cyan.

I bought a 'Vandyke Brown' because I had troubles mixing a good, deep brown with the base colors.. I suppose it comes with a bit of practise, but I had no patience. ;) This sort of colour can be tricky to mix from a limited palette but it's mostly a matter of balancing the three primaries, although generally I think you'll find it's useful to also utilise the black if you want a colour with very dark value.

Einion

Richard Saylor
10-06-2005, 06:49 PM
For acrylics I bought a starter's pack, which included

Primary Cyan
Mars Black
Primary Magenta (I like this, but I'd also prefer a more orange-red red; this one is too purple and when I mix it with the black it gets a dark lilac, and not dark red)
Primary Yellow
and Titanium WhiteThat set of colors should have come with some mixing instructions. Here are the basics:

1. Mixing cyan and magenta makes blues and purples, depending on the proportions used.
2. Mixing cyan and yellow makes greens, much brighter greens than you get from ordinary blue and yellow.
3. Mixing magenta and yellow makes oranges and reds, as Einion indicated.
4. A mixture of any two primary colors (cyan, yellow, magenta) can be made duller (grayer) by adding a third primary to the mixture.


Richard

Saera
10-07-2005, 09:46 AM
Yup, thanks, but I already knew that. ;) I'm just not very patient when mixing and I'd prefer to already have a red-red color. That's why I went out today and bought one. ;)

Richard Saylor
10-07-2005, 06:40 PM
Yup, thanks, but I already knew that. ;) I'm just not very patient when mixing and I'd prefer to already have a red-red color. That's why I went out today and bought one. ;)A CMY palette is inappropriate for an artist who is impatient with mixing, since the most common colors (except yellow) must all be mixed.

Richard

Einion
10-07-2005, 07:14 PM
A CMY palette is inappropriate for an artist who is impatient with mixing, since the most common colors (except yellow) must all be mixed. Aye, a CMY palette should come with a warning label, Caution: use may lead to RSI :D

Einion

FriendCarol
10-07-2005, 07:40 PM
Hi, guys... Einion, trying to remember translation this side of pond for RSI (repetitive stress injury, right?)... But I can't recall the local acronym, so I just spelled it out. :p

Einion
10-08-2005, 08:13 AM
Repetitive Strain Injury.

Einion

Silent Jaguar
10-29-2005, 02:39 AM
It is improbable for me to tell you because the palette changes like hairstyles. I've been working on painting for a handful of years and have been through about 40 paint colors and four different brands of acrylics. Have yet to settle for just a small selection of paint, but am truly working on it. The palette is down to a decided 15, but am still mulling. I'd like to get it down to 12 paints or less.

Einion
10-29-2005, 10:49 PM
Have yet to settle for just a small selection of paint, but am truly working on it. The palette is down to a decided 15, but am still mulling. I'd like to get it down to 12 paints or less.Hi, I wouldn't advise restricting the palette just for the sake of it, only do this if you have a specific reason.

15 paints isn't excessive and is not a large palette by most standards. If you imagine for example six core primaries, a couple of additional options like Cerulean Blue or Pyrrole Red, a violet, a green or two, perhaps an orange plus a handful of earths, this is a good versatile palette with a number of useful complementary mixing pairs built-in and wide mixing latitude.

Einion

Phantelope
11-29-2005, 12:55 PM
this is a really interesting thread! So far I've pretty much just started to paint and use what I had in my drawer (acrylics), but this made me go out and get a couple more colors to actually get into the mixing game. I paint pretty abstract, some things could be called action painting I guess, but I want to get more into realistic projects with acrylics (and oil). I do much more realistic things with pens/pencils, airbrush, coal, pastells, and want to 'transfer' that to bursh work.

So I used the 6 color pallet from handprint, which is for watercolor. Unfortunately not all of those are exactly available in acrylics and I had to replace at least one. Maybe one of the experienced people here can take a quick look and tell me if I'm off to a good start, as I can still exchange them :-)

I got Golden brand tubes as follows:
Hansa Yellow medium (arylide yelow GX/PY73)
Phthalo Blue GS (PB 15:4)
Pyrrole Orange (PO71)
Quinacridone Magenta (PR 122)
Phthalo Green YS (PG36)
Ultramarine Blue (PB 29)

also got a paynes gray for an other project.

Is that a good selection? It seems my phthalo blue is a bit more towards (middle blue) than the Cyan listed on the watercolor pallet, but there doesn't seem to be a Phthalocyanine Cyan in Acrylics, at least not in Golden or Liquitex, which is what my store carries.


I do have some other colors of course, several cadmiums, etc. But for learning purposes I'd like to limit myself to just 6 for now.

Thanks!

Ph


(edit)
PS, if somebody could point me to a site or an article that would explain all those PY, PO, etc names in a lay person (i.e. quick and dirty) way, that would be great!

Einion
11-29-2005, 09:10 PM
Hi, those pigments are all fine and in colour terms this is a great palette. However it's very limited in terms of opacity, which may be an issue if you want to paint in certain ways. That's one reason I still prefer a palette based on split primaries for media other than watercolour since it gives a wider scope (plus the opaque colours will tend to mix differently as well, providing even more versatility than immediately evident).

>Hansa Yellow medium (arylide yelow GX/PY73)
Fine yellow to have as a single choice.

>Phthalo Blue GS (PB 15:4)
Solid, dependable green-side blue.

>Pyrrole Orange (PO71)
I've never used this but it's a fine pigment apparently. I prefer Perinone Orange for this palette position but of course it's not available from Golden or Liquitex. It's offered in Dick Blick's house brand of acrylics for future reference if you'd like to try it cheaply.

>Quinacridone Magenta (PR 122)
This is the classic 'magenta' pigment artists choose.

>Phthalo Green YS (PG36)
One of the excellent phthalo greens, extremely versatile and dependable.

>Ultramarine Blue (PB 29)
Excellent violet-side blue and makes a great companion to Phthalo Blue GS, as a pair they have the most versatility.

It seems my phthalo blue is a bit more towards (middle blue) than the Cyan listed on the watercolor pallet, but there doesn't seem to be a Phthalocyanine Cyan in Acrylics, at least not in Golden or Liquitex, which is what my store carries.Phthalo Cyan is not available in acrylics as far as I know, a couple of us have been looking every now and then for years. The phthalo blues artists tend to use in place of cyan are very blue in masstone as you can see but they are distinctly more cyan in undercolour and tint which is how they function adequately in place.

The CIN or Colour Index Names - PO43, PR108, PB29, etc. - are explained piecemeal in many places but there's not much more that an artist needs to know about them that you can't find out by asking here or reading through Handprint (which I would highly recommend anyway :)). The P in each case refers to pigment, the next letter(s) refer to the hue, so PO43 is short for Pigment Orange 43 - Perinone Orange. Y is for yellow, R is for red, B is for blue, G is for green, V is for violet, Br is for brown, Bk is for black and W is for white.

You get to learn the common ones from familiarity so you'll soon read the small print on the label of a paint tube and understand what it says :D Knowing pigments is a very useful thing but fundamentally they don't tell you what a paint is really like - even for a single CIN you can have a huge range of colour, PR108 being a classic example - and as well as that small differences in the way the pigment was ground can have a profound effect on the way paints made from different examples behave, so you have to try them to know.

Einion

Phantelope
11-29-2005, 09:21 PM
Hi Einion, thanks for the detailed reply! Good to know I picked a good selection, I had a chance to go yesterday, while this site was down...

I do have some other colors (well, many) that I picked based on "hey, a nice yellow!" but I want to learn more about "conscious mixing" vs my usual "let's see what happens" approach :-)

I've looked around on that handprint site, great info, though the site navigation is a bit - uh - inventive? A lot to digest for sure.

Thanks also for the intro to the pigment naming! I thought it might be something like that, and that values that are close to each other would resemble colors that are close (correct?).

I actually got two phthalo blues, one GS and one RS (could not decide and they're not that expensive) which might come in handy (or not) some day :-)

Well, next step is to actually paint a color wheel or grid, so I know what they can do :-)

Thanks again, all your input on this entire thread has been very informative and helpful! :clap:

Ph :wave:

Einion
11-29-2005, 10:55 PM
You're welcome, glad to try to help.

I do have some other colors (well, many) that I picked based on "hey, a nice yellow!" but I want to learn more about "conscious mixing" vs my usual "let's see what happens" approach :-)Very good idea.

I've looked around on that handprint site, great info, though the site navigation is a bit - uh - inventive?Find the site map, bookmark it and go from there; I think that's the best approach if you're looking for something again that you've read before. The links taking you from one page to another when dealing with theory and mixing are in a very deliberate order so they are the way to read the site if you're being methodical (and you have a couple of weeks!)

...and that values that are close to each other would resemble colors that are close (correct?). Ooh, not at all! The numbering order is, as far as we're concerned, random - purely in masstone PR112 is much the same colour as some shades of PR108, PY35 is much the same as PY74 etc. etc.

I actually got two phthalo blues, one GS and one RS (could not decide and they're not that expensive) which might come in handy (or not) some day :-)That's good, worth comparing their mixing results. The greens achievable with the green shade are very chromatic and the other one would be better for mixed violets.

Einion

FriendCarol
11-29-2005, 11:37 PM
Yup, the easiest way to navigate through Handprint is the Site Map (accessible from the top level of the watercolor section) -- although it would be more convenient (for us slow dial-up users) if there were an indication within the map of which pages are 'under development!' (The index page does use a font change to indicate which pages are actually accessible.)

To find a page you've previously read, however, which you now can't find again, I recommend the 'Advanced Search' mode of Yahoo: Just put in the keywords you're looking for (whatever you remember), and then restrict the search to the domain handprint.com -- definitely the quickest way to find that page you want to reread. :)

Btw, I walked over a mile last week (on my crutches while pushing a cart) to get to The art supply store in Charlotte -- so while I was there I treated myself to a couple new colors. I bought that quin magenta (PR122) and the cobalt turquoise light (PG50), but I'm not going to play with them until I get bored some day. :angel: Assuming that day ever comes....

Richard Saylor
11-30-2005, 01:30 AM
.....Btw, I walked over a mile last week (on my crutches while pushing a cart) to get to The art supply store in Charlotte -- so while I was there I treated myself to a couple new colors. I bought that quin magenta (PR122) and the cobalt turquoise light (PG50), but I'm not going to play with them until I get bored some day. :angel: Assuming that day ever comes....Glad you were able to take a nice walk before it gets too cold. The quin magenta works beautifully in purple mixes, particularly with French ultramarine. I hope you will inform us about your experiences with the turquoise PG50.

Phantelope
11-30-2005, 11:42 AM
Thanks again! I'll look for the site map on handprint. The information is great, but it would be nice to have a static menu on there somewhere....

Funny with the pigment numbering, I'll have to find out more.

By the way, I guess the portraits at the bottom of your posts are your work? They are fantastic! I love how each person is captured with just a very few lines. Are they actual portraits or "made up" people? Is there more of your work online?

Ph

romumu
12-22-2005, 05:52 AM
hello

first, for Ruben's palette, the nearest one is the palette shown in Turquet de Mayerne's book...

second, I give mine

white

white lead, titan/zinc white for strong white, calcit/CaOH for precious work

black

iron black, wine black & burnt apricot, & sometimes ivory black

yellow, orange, red colors

yellow & red ochre ( from French Colorado & Africa )
Naples yellow, massicot, cadmium yellow-orange-red
I use an old pigment 'lemon yellow', lead chromate I think
orpiment, cinaber, minium, lytharge, hematite, goethite

lac, carmin, madder, reseda, saffron

green

green earth
I don't use lots of green color, sometimes :
cobalt green, emerald green, verdegris, malachit, dioptase

blue

cobalt blue
azurit, ultramarine ( lapis ), indigo
sometimes Han's blue & egyptian blue

other :

pyrit, lead-antimony-tin oxyds, lead chromate, chrome green, french ultramarin (rarely ), various experiments on colors with plants, medieval chemistry & minerals ( atacamite, crocoïte, chrysocolla, parsley, mixes & preparations with copper acetate/carbonate/resinate etc )