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DLGardner
01-07-2005, 02:10 AM
Welcome to the first portrait classroom! I'll make the introduction to this class brief. This demo is a simple but direct system I've used as a basis for painting or drawing the mouth on my portraits. I've tried to keep my instructions simple and hope you can follow along. I'll be posting the whole demo in one post and then we can discuss, ask questions, interact-anyway you feel comfortable. Please take a moment and try the steps out yourself and see if it helps or not. Being as I'm the one breaking the ice with these classrooms, I am sure there is going to be a lot of room for improvement. I am also sure that there are those of you who can do a much better job at painting mouths than I, so please contribute if you feel what you have is worthwhile. I'm just here to get things rolling and to offer a thread for anyone in the future who is having difficulty painting mouths.
And with no further ado...

The mouth.

The most important think to remember is that the mouth is not just a basic shape pasted on a face. The mouth is an opening in your head that you use to eat, speak, smile, frown and move in many different ways. Lips and other fleshly layers surround the opening. The mouth contains teeth (usually) and gums and this is important to remember even when you are painting a closed mouth because you are going to have to show that there is something inside the mouth even when it is closed.

Iím including a sketch taken from Figure Drawing Fouth Edition by Nathan Goldstein. In this sketch you will see the shapes and location of muscles that surround the mouth. I can provide a more detail summary of the names of each muscle if you like, but I donít think that is necessary at this point. Any anatomy book will tell you that info.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Mouthil.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Mouthil2.jpg


In shape and character, it is safe to say that most all mouths are different. Some are narrow, some are long, some are short and some are medium. Age is very significant to its shape and size. Children have a much different mouth than adults.

I love painting mouths because with the slightest change in value I can change the personís look, attitude, and character. When you do portraits, be very alert to what is going on with the mouth. Done correctly, you may touch on the secret to that personís personality and in so doing create another clue to their resemblance you may have otherwise missed.

Since good art requires good observation, lets take a look at some different mouths and do some observing. Thank you to the folks who have contributed the photos that these clips have been cropped from. The majority of them were found in the reference library here on WC.

This is a female mouth moderately sized. Not too unusual in shape. A pleasant countenance but not really a smile, this mouth pretty much shows a relaxed non-expressive emotion
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-mouth.jpg

Here is another female mouth. Notice that the mouth is shorter in length and shows more of a pout. The view is looking down somewhat on the subject.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-mouthf2.jpg

Here is an adult maleís mouth. He shows a somewhat serious expression. Notice the fullness of the flesh on the lower part of his mouth extending to his chin.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-mouthm.jpg

This is a three-year-old girlís mouth.
Often times when children are embarrassed or attempting to do something they are not sure how to do, they will pucker their lips like this.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Mouthc2.jpg

Here is a two-year-oldís mouth. She is sucking her lower lip in. Children are always doing something with their mouths. If you are going to paint an accurate painting of a child, observe what they do with their mouths naturally and capture the look. Those are the things that moms and dads (the ones who buy the paintings and cherish them forever) are going to want to seeÖthe little character traits.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Mouthc.jpg

DLGardner
01-07-2005, 02:16 AM
The first thing I do when I paint the mouth on the portrait is to determine its length in comparison to both the center of the eyes and the nose, and itís width to under the nose and the bottom of the face (chin).

Below is a very simple three step outline of drawing the mouth
Draw the center of the mouth first, the line that goes from corner to corner. And draw the corners too. Usually the corners of the mouth extend to the center of the eyeball if our model is looking directly at us.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Mouthsk1.jpg

Next, establish the basic shape of the mouth with broken lines. The reason we use broken lines is because some of the mouth edges will be determine by negative shading instead of a hard edge.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Mouthsk2.jpg

This is what I mean by forming the rest of the mouth with negative shading. The mouth doesnít have a definite edge all the way around it.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Mouthsk3.jpg

I finished this particular mouth by darkening it but I didn't have to. Because the final drawing has edges it also has that lipstick look to it. You arenít going to want this when you do every mouth.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Mouthsk4.jpg

Our next illustration will be done in oils.

DLGardner
01-07-2005, 02:26 AM
Step 1. Draw your line. I always draw with my brushes and paints but some people use pencil. Either way works of course, but this is what I do.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Moutho1.jpg

Step 2. Suggest the shape.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Moutho2.jpg

Step 3. Begin to fill in the darker values.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Moutho3.jpg

Step 4. Indicate your negative shape and borders.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Moutho4a.jpg


Step 5.Begin to lay in your light values.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Moutho5.jpg

Step 6. Fill your light values around the mouth paying close attention to those parts that are full. Your light values are going to show roundness where you need it. They will indicate that the mouth is holding teeth (or not).

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Moutho6.jpg

Step 7. Blend, shape and correct.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Moutho7.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Moutho8.jpg

That's it! You're done.

eileenclaire
01-07-2005, 07:43 AM
This is an excellent, comprehensive demo! Thank you, Dianne!

Dana Design
01-07-2005, 10:23 AM
Diane, thank you so very much for this! You've certainly made it look easy. Actually, I love painting mouths!

Noses, next? :clap:

DLGardner
01-07-2005, 10:29 AM
Diane, thank you so very much for this! You've certainly made it look easy. Actually, I love painting mouths!

Thanks Dana, so do I.
I was just thinking last night I should have addressed the open mouth and a side view. I can do that and add to the thread if there is enough response.

Yes, I believe noses are next. Someone else is doing the nose.

Thanks for commenting.
Dianne

Dana Design
01-07-2005, 10:42 AM
Thanks Dana, so do I.
I was just thinking last night I should have addressed the open mouth and a side view. I can do that and add to the thread if there is enough response.

Yes, I believe noses are next. Someone else is doing the nose.

Thanks for commenting.
Dianne

Absolutely, the open mouth with teeth. I generally paint the teeth as just a shaded solid mass. Teeth are so very difficult to painting in order to make them not look like rows of corn.

I'd love to see a demo with teeth! So, I'm responding!!! :clap:

Florian
01-07-2005, 10:45 AM
Excellent demo Dianne, itīs very helpful thanks!

Florian

artbabe21
01-07-2005, 11:50 AM
Bravo Dianne!! Thanks for our first classroom demo!!

Excellent presentation! :D I will take time to study this. Are we going to post our drawings/paintings using this information?

MaryJohnson
01-07-2005, 12:19 PM
I, too, would vote in favor of both suggestions....some tutorials on open mouths, particularly of children, and that we do some exercises and post either successes or failures, or both. It would be neat to see them done in various mediums, too, since not everyone works in oils.
THANK YOU for a great demo. :clap: :clap:
Regards,
Mary Johnson

DLGardner
01-07-2005, 12:43 PM
Thanks folks.
I think even though you don't all work in oils, these demos are pretty universal. Watercolors might be difficult to adapt, but pastels are handled similarly enough that I think you can use these steps and be successful.

And so as to not leave anyone hanging, because we all know that a closed mouth is nothing compared to the open mouth, I'm going to extend this demo another step and do the smile.

Here is how I tackle the situation

The smile.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Sm.jpg

Step 1.
Start with the corners. This will help you define where the mouth is going to be placed on the face.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Sm1.jpg

Step two.
Define your lip line. Notice the upper lip almost disappears as it stretches.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Sm2.jpg

Step 3. Again, note where you are going to have vanishing edges.
Remember the whole contour of the mouth is smiling, not just the lip. Pay attention to the way the muscles stretch around your mouth. This is vital.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Sm3.jpg

Step 4. More definition around the mouth.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Sm4.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Sm5.jpg

Step 5. Now I begin shading and defining teeth. The teeth must never be the lightest value in your painting. If they are, then they are going to stand out probably more than you want them too. They are shadowed by the upper lip, by the inside of your mouth and they are very seldom white. I start defining them by making their shadow and a subtle line coming from the shadow that shows me where they are.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Sm6.jpg

Step 6. Then I begin to sink them back where they belong, leaving only a few very white sparkles to highlight the smile, but not enough to bring undo attention to the teeth. Notice how the roundness of the muscles around the mouth suggest that there is something inside the mouth.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Sm7.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Sm8.jpg


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Sm9.jpg

DLGardner
01-07-2005, 12:54 PM
I can do a demo for a child's mouth too later this afternoon, so stay tuned.

Dianne

Rosic
01-07-2005, 01:49 PM
Dianne.... :clap: :clap: :clap: ... thanks a million!

Excellent Demo!

Bern :wave:

artbabe21
01-07-2005, 02:31 PM
Dianne.....this is brilliant work! Thanks for the smile & a child's mouth too!
WE certainly appreciate watching you work & your terrific explanations!! Very through! :D

eileenclaire
01-07-2005, 03:16 PM
... we do some exercises and post either successes or failures, or both. It would be neat to see them done in various mediums, too, since not everyone works in oils.
THANK YOU for a great demo. :clap: :clap:
Regards,
Mary Johnson


Yes, this thread is for posting your work. Please do your own examples and post them here, and you can get feedback on it as well.



Dianne, you have really gone above and beyond with this demo! You're the greatest!

artbabe21
01-07-2005, 03:21 PM
I've certainly learned one thing right off the bat....I DON'T use enough values in my mouths! I can see now why you get the look you do which I so admire in your work Dianne! :D

DLGardner
01-07-2005, 03:41 PM
Thanks Cath and Eileen.
I was looking through some of my files of my grandchildren for children's mouths and I have quite the assortment.
Don't know if anything is really appropriate. They all run pretty much along these lines:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Smcb.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Smc.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/8002-Smcd.jpg

All well, all the more to observe. :D

Dianne

Gilberte
01-07-2005, 03:43 PM
subscribing ...

Subway
01-07-2005, 04:51 PM
This is great, thank you so much! I will draw some over the weekend and try to post on Monday!

Thanks,

Jim

peoplepainter
01-07-2005, 05:02 PM
Thank you for such a well put together and informative thread! Dianne, you sure went above and beyond and helped remind me of lots of things I often forget...especially the best way to handle teeth. That's something I dread but always seem to be stuck doing.

Anywho, great job and thank you. :clap:

Lisa

Bordelon
01-07-2005, 06:19 PM
Thank you so much for this....especially the toothy one! Sandra

Pars
01-07-2005, 08:37 PM
Thanks so much for these demos. Very helpful and so clear. I'll be practicing for certain.

MaryJ
01-07-2005, 09:09 PM
Ahem, is this where I say "Be careful what you ask for?" Guess I'll be busy this weekend trying out these wonderful ideas. The demo is "mahvlus" and I can't wait to get at my materials to try your method. Again, thanks. Hope to have something to post by Monday.
Regards,
Mary J

hopefulbucky
01-07-2005, 10:24 PM
WOW Dianne, I just saw this demo. How wonderful it is. I use watercolors so am figuring that somehow I need to start with lights and go to darks, just reverse somehow what you do with oils. Tons of good info. I would have given you mentor points but am not qualified since I don't go on this site much. Will be stopping by more and I am printing out your instructions and see how I can come out with the mouths.

Thank you.

hopefulbucky
01-07-2005, 10:24 PM
WOW Dianne, I just saw this demo. How wonderful it is. I use watercolors so am figuring that somehow I need to start with lights and go to darks, just reverse somehow what you do with oils. Tons of good info. I would have given you mentor points but am not qualified since I don't go on this site much. Will be stopping by more and I am printing out your instructions and see how I can come out with the mouths.

Thank you.

Judi1957
01-07-2005, 10:26 PM
Do I have to quit my day job??? I'm in JayD's D & S forum Basic 101 and I want to do this too!!!!

This is great, :clap: :clap: :clap: I love doing portraits!

THANK-YOU!

Judi1957
01-07-2005, 10:26 PM
Do I have to quit my day job??? I'm in JayD's D & S forum Basic 101 and I want to do this too!!!!

This is great, :clap: :clap: :clap: I love doing portraits!

THANK-YOU!

JayD
01-07-2005, 10:32 PM
Judi--do them BOTH--we are teaching basics over in D&S--this is much more specialized and comprehensive--you will greatly benefit from jumping in here as we will be later covering portraiture down the road--you can show us how it is done by doing a demo. :)

PS--SCARY, isn't it?--I seem to be EVERYWHERE! :evil:

JayD
01-07-2005, 10:32 PM
Judi--do them BOTH--we are teaching basics over in D&S--this is much more specialized and comprehensive--you will greatly benefit from jumping in here as we will be later covering portraiture down the road--you can show us how it is done by doing a demo. :)

PS--SCARY, isn't it?--I seem to be EVERYWHERE! :evil:

DLGardner
01-07-2005, 10:43 PM
This is wonderful! Can't wait to see everyone's try at it. I promise I'll get to that other demo on children's mouths but it looks like it won't be until Monday.

In the meantime, here's your homework!

Love it-all you folks coming in here. I am jazzed!

Dianne

DLGardner
01-07-2005, 10:43 PM
This is wonderful! Can't wait to see everyone's try at it. I promise I'll get to that other demo on children's mouths but it looks like it won't be until Monday.

In the meantime, here's your homework!

Love it-all you folks coming in here. I am jazzed!

Dianne

Lauren F-M
01-07-2005, 10:58 PM
Thanks so much, Dianne! :clap: :clap:

You've inspired me! I am tempted to go to my studio, get a mirror, and draw my mouth! :D Definitely something to tackle this weekend.

You chose a particularly challenging "toothy grin" to use for a reference for open mouth -- good work! It would have scared me, but again, you have shown us that it CAN be done tastefully.

I will also pull out my artist anatomy books, and turn to the sections on mouths! :D

Thanks again,
Lauren F-M :wave:

Lauren F-M
01-07-2005, 10:58 PM
Thanks so much, Dianne! :clap: :clap:

You've inspired me! I am tempted to go to my studio, get a mirror, and draw my mouth! :D Definitely something to tackle this weekend.

You chose a particularly challenging "toothy grin" to use for a reference for open mouth -- good work! It would have scared me, but again, you have shown us that it CAN be done tastefully.

I will also pull out my artist anatomy books, and turn to the sections on mouths! :D

Thanks again,
Lauren F-M :wave:

drounding
01-08-2005, 04:55 AM
Dianne,

Great class - I'm going to be practising. Thanks so much for your efforts.

Duncan

drounding
01-08-2005, 04:55 AM
Dianne,

Great class - I'm going to be practising. Thanks so much for your efforts.

Duncan

imperess
01-08-2005, 06:01 AM
great class room Dianne!!!


So incredibly BRAVE of you to break the ice! Your doing a great job demonstrating the mouth, love the step by step demo's. Can't wait to see the child demo..

BRAVO!

~Carol

imperess
01-08-2005, 06:01 AM
great class room Dianne!!!


So incredibly BRAVE of you to break the ice! Your doing a great job demonstrating the mouth, love the step by step demo's. Can't wait to see the child demo..

BRAVO!

~Carol

einna
01-08-2005, 06:15 AM
Thank you. Dianne, for your time invested in this lesson. Many of us beginners will benefit a lot from this thread.

Annie

einna
01-08-2005, 06:15 AM
Thank you. Dianne, for your time invested in this lesson. Many of us beginners will benefit a lot from this thread.

Annie

sultry
01-08-2005, 06:31 AM
Hi Dianne,
I am another 101 from Jay's class and I was silently following your wonderful and needed class closely.

I have a question if all mediums can be used or do you only want our posting to be in color? I would love to try this first with just graphite. If not, I do work in acrylics is that ok?
&
hiyas Judi I did not know you were lurking here too? Oh and Jay I think she would be a great candidate to do a demo for us.

sultry
01-08-2005, 06:31 AM
Hi Dianne,
I am another 101 from Jay's class and I was silently following your wonderful and needed class closely.

I have a question if all mediums can be used or do you only want our posting to be in color? I would love to try this first with just graphite. If not, I do work in acrylics is that ok?
&
hiyas Judi I did not know you were lurking here too? Oh and Jay I think she would be a great candidate to do a demo for us.

5thsister
01-08-2005, 11:16 AM
You make it seem so simple! Thank you for the wonderful demo. I, too, will begin practicing.

Bravo, Diane! :clap:

5thsister
01-08-2005, 11:16 AM
You make it seem so simple! Thank you for the wonderful demo. I, too, will begin practicing.

Bravo, Diane! :clap:

Fireman's kid
01-08-2005, 11:59 AM
Hi! I am another Basic 101er visiting from JayD's class in the Drawing and Sketching forum. I really, really, really want to be able to draw and paint people. And I'd love to be able to do it before my kids are grown so I can draw them. :D

I will be subscribing to this thread so I can come back to it after Jay's class is over. (I'm having a hard enough time keeping up over there that I dare not try to do both at once. :o )

Thank you Dianne for sharing this information! :clap:

hopefulbucky, if you figure out how to reverse this for watercolors, please share. :)

Fireman's kid
01-08-2005, 11:59 AM
Hi! I am another Basic 101er visiting from JayD's class in the Drawing and Sketching forum. I really, really, really want to be able to draw and paint people. And I'd love to be able to do it before my kids are grown so I can draw them. :D

I will be subscribing to this thread so I can come back to it after Jay's class is over. (I'm having a hard enough time keeping up over there that I dare not try to do both at once. :o )

Thank you Dianne for sharing this information! :clap:

hopefulbucky, if you figure out how to reverse this for watercolors, please share. :)

GoldCoin
01-08-2005, 02:37 PM
HI ..My thanks to Dianne, a wonderful examples to work with.. as I'm learning to draw also.

Might add for the Digital painters, this was one of the best I've found ..showing how for the mouth & lips ..

http://www.bildsajten.com/painter/tut16/tut16.htm

GoldCoin
01-08-2005, 02:37 PM
HI ..My thanks to Dianne, a wonderful examples to work with.. as I'm learning to draw also.

Might add for the Digital painters, this was one of the best I've found ..showing how for the mouth & lips ..

http://www.bildsajten.com/painter/tut16/tut16.htm

Blah
01-08-2005, 03:29 PM
Thank you Dianne for a very clear and useful demo.

I am yet another of Jay's 101ers and I would like to attend the portrait class too. And like Sultry, I too would like to work in graphite if that is acceptable. Unlike Sultry I am not yet comfortable wielding a brush.

Blah

Blah
01-08-2005, 03:29 PM
Thank you Dianne for a very clear and useful demo.

I am yet another of Jay's 101ers and I would like to attend the portrait class too. And like Sultry, I too would like to work in graphite if that is acceptable. Unlike Sultry I am not yet comfortable wielding a brush.

Blah

JayD
01-08-2005, 04:15 PM
Blah, Judi, Sultry and now Fireman's Kid--OH MAMA! My students are leavin' me!! :D Truth be told? I'm taking the class too. I think this is a great idea. :clap: :clap: :clap:

JayD
01-08-2005, 04:15 PM
Blah, Judi, Sultry and now Fireman's Kid--OH MAMA! My students are leavin' me!! :D Truth be told? I'm taking the class too. I think this is a great idea. :clap: :clap: :clap:

JayD
01-08-2005, 04:16 PM
Graphite or colored pencil for me if you do not mind. Is that OK?

JayD
01-08-2005, 04:16 PM
Graphite or colored pencil for me if you do not mind. Is that OK?

DLH
01-08-2005, 04:29 PM
Iím not sure of the attribution, but I think it was John Singer Sergeant who defined the portrait as a painting with something wrong with the mouth.

DLH
01-08-2005, 04:29 PM
Iím not sure of the attribution, but I think it was John Singer Sergeant who defined the portrait as a painting with something wrong with the mouth.

eileenclaire
01-08-2005, 04:41 PM
And like Sultry, I too would like to work in graphite if that is acceptable. Unlike Sultry I am not yet comfortable wielding a brush.

Blah

Yes, please use any medium that you feel comfortable with. We would love to see your work here!

It's great to see all these graphite artists taking part! :wave:

DLH, you're right, that's Sargent's quote. :)

eileenclaire
01-08-2005, 04:41 PM
And like Sultry, I too would like to work in graphite if that is acceptable. Unlike Sultry I am not yet comfortable wielding a brush.

Blah

Yes, please use any medium that you feel comfortable with. We would love to see your work here!

It's great to see all these graphite artists taking part! :wave:

DLH, you're right, that's Sargent's quote. :)

marilyn h
01-08-2005, 07:32 PM
First sketches of mouth and smiles. I am going to so enjoy this forums class. Thank you.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jan-2005/4759-Smiles2005_3.JPG
Marilyn

marilyn h
01-08-2005, 07:32 PM
First sketches of mouth and smiles. I am going to so enjoy this forums class. Thank you.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jan-2005/4759-Smiles2005_3.JPG
Marilyn

llanpe
01-08-2005, 11:53 PM
This is my practice with mouths. :mad: a lot to learn!... Thanks for the great tutorial.
Peter

llanpe
01-08-2005, 11:53 PM
This is my practice with mouths. :mad: a lot to learn!... Thanks for the great tutorial.
Peter

DLGardner
01-09-2005, 03:09 AM
Blah, Judi, Sultry and now Fireman's Kid
It is so good to have you here! Yes use graphite! I don't care. Sketch away and have fun. I am so thrilled to have you join us. Now I'm curious. I will have to go to JayD's class after this... :)

Peter, those are great sketches. Glad you joined with us.

Marilyn, I love it it! You actually did my grandson making the funny face.

Laruen, can't wait to see yours.

Duncan, so good to have you here!

Goldcoin, welcome!


DLH, love that quote.

And welcome JayD!
This is more fun that I ever dreamed it would be. Thank you Eileen for getting this all started.

DLGardner
01-09-2005, 03:09 AM
Blah, Judi, Sultry and now Fireman's Kid
It is so good to have you here! Yes use graphite! I don't care. Sketch away and have fun. I am so thrilled to have you join us. Now I'm curious. I will have to go to JayD's class after this... :)

Peter, those are great sketches. Glad you joined with us.

Marilyn, I love it it! You actually did my grandson making the funny face.

Laruen, can't wait to see yours.

Duncan, so good to have you here!

Goldcoin, welcome!


DLH, love that quote.

And welcome JayD!
This is more fun that I ever dreamed it would be. Thank you Eileen for getting this all started.

marilyn h
01-09-2005, 09:38 AM
Nice sketches, Peter. I need to take time and refine mine. Just quick sketches.

marilyn h
01-09-2005, 09:38 AM
Nice sketches, Peter. I need to take time and refine mine. Just quick sketches.

Judi1957
01-09-2005, 11:43 AM
Diane,
LOL, always something wrong with the mouth. He sure said a mouthful!
But, your demostration has mad it a lot easier to get more right. Thank-you! :clap:

I was in the grocery line and saw People magazine, now there's a lot of mouths in there to draw.

Judi1957
01-09-2005, 11:43 AM
Diane,
LOL, always something wrong with the mouth. He sure said a mouthful!
But, your demostration has mad it a lot easier to get more right. Thank-you! :clap:

I was in the grocery line and saw People magazine, now there's a lot of mouths in there to draw.

DLGardner
01-09-2005, 01:32 PM
Diane,
LOL, always something wrong with the mouth. He sure said a mouthful!
But, your demostration has mad it a lot easier to get more right. Thank-you! :clap:

I was in the grocery line and saw People magazine, now there's a lot of mouths in there to draw.

Wow, these are great! If you are doing People Magazine, it'd be kind of fun to see if we can recognize who these mouths belong to!

Dianne

DLGardner
01-09-2005, 01:32 PM
Diane,
LOL, always something wrong with the mouth. He sure said a mouthful!
But, your demostration has mad it a lot easier to get more right. Thank-you! :clap:

I was in the grocery line and saw People magazine, now there's a lot of mouths in there to draw.

Wow, these are great! If you are doing People Magazine, it'd be kind of fun to see if we can recognize who these mouths belong to!

Dianne

sultry
01-09-2005, 05:57 PM
Dianne,

I promise to post fleshy mouths too lol but I could not resist the muscles. Always wanted to try that. Done with HB mechanical pencil.

Judi beautiful values and texture on your mouths. oh, did you do Britney Spears?? lol she is always on the magazines.

edited to add... Hi Marilyn & Peter great sketches also.

sultry
01-09-2005, 05:57 PM
Dianne,

I promise to post fleshy mouths too lol but I could not resist the muscles. Always wanted to try that. Done with HB mechanical pencil.

Judi beautiful values and texture on your mouths. oh, did you do Britney Spears?? lol she is always on the magazines.

edited to add... Hi Marilyn & Peter great sketches also.

mothsailor
01-09-2005, 06:09 PM
Hi there, thought I would join in the fun too!

I've not got much experience drawing faces, so I'm hoping to learn a lot. Here are my attempts at some mouths. Teeth are hard!

Thanks for the great demonstration, Dianne. You make it look so easy! :envy:

mothsailor
01-09-2005, 06:09 PM
Hi there, thought I would join in the fun too!

I've not got much experience drawing faces, so I'm hoping to learn a lot. Here are my attempts at some mouths. Teeth are hard!

Thanks for the great demonstration, Dianne. You make it look so easy! :envy:

DLGardner
01-09-2005, 06:14 PM
Dianne,

I promise to post fleshy mouths too lol but I could not resist the muscles. Always wanted to try that. Done with HB mechanical pencil.

Judi beautiful values and texture on your mouths. oh, did you do Britney Spears?? lol she is always on the magazines.

edited to add... Hi Marilyn & Peter great sketches also.

Excellent! Doing these kind of studies will really help us learn how a mouth is constructed, and promote more accurate art. Thanks for doing them. I should try them myself.

Dianne

DLGardner
01-09-2005, 06:14 PM
Dianne,

I promise to post fleshy mouths too lol but I could not resist the muscles. Always wanted to try that. Done with HB mechanical pencil.

Judi beautiful values and texture on your mouths. oh, did you do Britney Spears?? lol she is always on the magazines.

edited to add... Hi Marilyn & Peter great sketches also.

Excellent! Doing these kind of studies will really help us learn how a mouth is constructed, and promote more accurate art. Thanks for doing them. I should try them myself.

Dianne

rosebard
01-09-2005, 06:35 PM
Hi Eileen, Thanks for the invitation it is really good to be here.

Diane, congratulations the lessons are great and easy.
I had to try the example few times until I started actually to really put a mouth together. Then I drawn from the pics. The first sheet is my attempts to do so, and second is actually from the pics.

I am following everyones works and all looks good. :clap: :clap: :clap:

I am also a late student from JayD's Basic 101 Class.

Going to try it soon in oil Diane.

Keep up everybody and good artistic days!!!

:wave:

Rose BArd

rosebard
01-09-2005, 06:35 PM
Hi Eileen, Thanks for the invitation it is really good to be here.

Diane, congratulations the lessons are great and easy.
I had to try the example few times until I started actually to really put a mouth together. Then I drawn from the pics. The first sheet is my attempts to do so, and second is actually from the pics.

I am following everyones works and all looks good. :clap: :clap: :clap:

I am also a late student from JayD's Basic 101 Class.

Going to try it soon in oil Diane.

Keep up everybody and good artistic days!!!

:wave:

Rose BArd

Judi1957
01-09-2005, 07:06 PM
Diane,
Looks like you are being swarmed by us 101'ers today :D !

I never thought to do the muscles themselves. I just felt my face as I viewed them. Good Job Sults!! :clap: :wave:
Marilyn, Peter, Dave and Rose... :clap: :clap:

I did not mean to throw you off when I said the pics were from Peoples mag. Two are from advertisments. Most of the celebs have small pics. The third is a celeb (whom I am not too familiar with) Topher Grace from 'That Seventies Show'.

Judi1957
01-09-2005, 07:06 PM
Diane,
Looks like you are being swarmed by us 101'ers today :D !

I never thought to do the muscles themselves. I just felt my face as I viewed them. Good Job Sults!! :clap: :wave:
Marilyn, Peter, Dave and Rose... :clap: :clap:

I did not mean to throw you off when I said the pics were from Peoples mag. Two are from advertisments. Most of the celebs have small pics. The third is a celeb (whom I am not too familiar with) Topher Grace from 'That Seventies Show'.

sultry
01-10-2005, 01:08 PM
Thank you Diane one of my new years resolutions is to draw the full body in muscle and skelton form. (I have a whole year to do it).
Here are the promised fleshy ones lol.

Great job Dave & Rose :)

Thanks Judi for the C&C

sultry
01-10-2005, 01:08 PM
Thank you Diane one of my new years resolutions is to draw the full body in muscle and skelton form. (I have a whole year to do it).
Here are the promised fleshy ones lol.

Great job Dave & Rose :)

Thanks Judi for the C&C

Precious Mazie
01-10-2005, 03:01 PM
I want to write so that I will be subscribed to this Thread. Excellent :clap: :clap:
I don't know if anyone else mentioned this but there is a really good book that goes along with this whole class of portraiture. Itís called ""The Artist's Complete Guide to Facial Expression" by Gary Faigin.
I will be submitting my efforts soon! Thanks again for starting this! Will also look into D&S 101 that sounds great too!

Precious Mazie
01-10-2005, 03:01 PM
I want to write so that I will be subscribed to this Thread. Excellent :clap: :clap:
I don't know if anyone else mentioned this but there is a really good book that goes along with this whole class of portraiture. Itís called ""The Artist's Complete Guide to Facial Expression" by Gary Faigin.
I will be submitting my efforts soon! Thanks again for starting this! Will also look into D&S 101 that sounds great too!

eagle owl
01-10-2005, 07:44 PM
Great stuff, Dianne.

I'm just starting to paint portraits so this will be useful.

Regards

Carol

eagle owl
01-10-2005, 07:44 PM
Great stuff, Dianne.

I'm just starting to paint portraits so this will be useful.

Regards

Carol

ringslingin
01-11-2005, 04:08 AM
This mouth tip is REALLY great... I never tried starting with that center line before and I tried it today and my 'mouths' turned out 10 times better. Thanks!

ringslingin
01-11-2005, 04:08 AM
This mouth tip is REALLY great... I never tried starting with that center line before and I tried it today and my 'mouths' turned out 10 times better. Thanks!

rinah32
01-12-2005, 11:07 AM
This is really great...count me in...Pam.

rinah32
01-12-2005, 11:07 AM
This is really great...count me in...Pam.

DLGardner
01-12-2005, 12:45 PM
Ok, I promised to do a child's mouth demo. I did one up this morning. Its not the best, but I think the most important thing we need to learn about children's mouths is the difference between theirs and an adult mouth.

I'm going to be using the photo "paint/draw from the same reference" thread, http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239890 as an example. Perhaps this will inspire you to work on that thread too?

Step 1
Start with your center line and ends. Remember that a child's mouth is going to have less contrast, (fairer skin and shallower indentations so the shadows will be softer).

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2005/8002-Acm1.jpg

Step 2.
Define your shape by establishing where your outer shadows are going to go.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2005/8002-Acm2.jpg

Step 3.
In this case, because this subject is in shadows, his lips appear dark so we are going to fill these lips in. Usually children's lips are full and round.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2005/8002-Acm2.jpg

Now on an adult's lips, we would be adding shadow where I've added the black lines. Try not to on children because you will age them if you do. If your reference photo shows these shadows, make them very subtle if at all.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2005/8002-Acm3a.jpg

Step 4
Fill in the light areas and begin working around the mouth to shape and shadow it. Remember to keep your contrast between values low. http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2005/8002-Acm4.jpg

Again, the black marks will show where adult lines and shadows would go.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2005/8002-Acm4a.jpg

Step 5. You're done.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2005/8002-Acm5.jpg
Probably not the best example. I'm sure many of you can do much better, and I know I can too. But that's the process and I hope it helps.

Enjoy!
Dianne

DLGardner
01-12-2005, 12:45 PM
Ok, I promised to do a child's mouth demo. I did one up this morning. Its not the best, but I think the most important thing we need to learn about children's mouths is the difference between theirs and an adult mouth.

I'm going to be using the photo "paint/draw from the same reference" thread, http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239890 as an example. Perhaps this will inspire you to work on that thread too?

Step 1
Start with your center line and ends. Remember that a child's mouth is going to have less contrast, (fairer skin and shallower indentations so the shadows will be softer).

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2005/8002-Acm1.jpg

Step 2.
Define your shape by establishing where your outer shadows are going to go.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2005/8002-Acm2.jpg

Step 3.
In this case, because this subject is in shadows, his lips appear dark so we are going to fill these lips in. Usually children's lips are full and round.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2005/8002-Acm2.jpg

Now on an adult's lips, we would be adding shadow where I've added the black lines. Try not to on children because you will age them if you do. If your reference photo shows these shadows, make them very subtle if at all.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2005/8002-Acm3a.jpg

Step 4
Fill in the light areas and begin working around the mouth to shape and shadow it. Remember to keep your contrast between values low. http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2005/8002-Acm4.jpg

Again, the black marks will show where adult lines and shadows would go.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2005/8002-Acm4a.jpg

Step 5. You're done.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2005/8002-Acm5.jpg
Probably not the best example. I'm sure many of you can do much better, and I know I can too. But that's the process and I hope it helps.

Enjoy!
Dianne

Rosic
01-12-2005, 12:54 PM
Dianne... Bravo! I tip my hat to you! Great class!
Bern

Rosic
01-12-2005, 12:54 PM
Dianne... Bravo! I tip my hat to you! Great class!
Bern

Judi1957
01-12-2005, 01:37 PM
Great Demo Dianne, :clap: :clap:

Will try this one out tonight!

Judi1957
01-12-2005, 01:37 PM
Great Demo Dianne, :clap: :clap:

Will try this one out tonight!

Gilberte
01-12-2005, 01:44 PM
Very, very interesting ........
Thanks for the demo on the childrens' mouth. Appreciate you doing all that work, painting, photographing, explaining, posting ....... wow.

Gilberte
01-12-2005, 01:44 PM
Very, very interesting ........
Thanks for the demo on the childrens' mouth. Appreciate you doing all that work, painting, photographing, explaining, posting ....... wow.

sultry
01-12-2005, 02:02 PM
Dianne your the bomb :clap: I will work on this too :clap:

sultry
01-12-2005, 02:02 PM
Dianne your the bomb :clap: I will work on this too :clap:

Precious Mazie
01-12-2005, 07:33 PM
Here are my lips! Actually one of the drawings really are my lips but I am mot saying which one! The drawing of the center line first really does make a difference in how well the lips are formed. Some of these are over worked. but better than the pasted on lips that I often produce!

Precious Mazie
01-12-2005, 07:33 PM
Here are my lips! Actually one of the drawings really are my lips but I am mot saying which one! The drawing of the center line first really does make a difference in how well the lips are formed. Some of these are over worked. but better than the pasted on lips that I often produce!

Judi1957
01-12-2005, 09:35 PM
Evening Dianne,
I said I would do this tonight but only have time for one, but I will practice more tomorrow.
This is wonderful all your knowledge you are sharing!!! :clap: Thank-you!

Judi1957
01-12-2005, 09:35 PM
Evening Dianne,
I said I would do this tonight but only have time for one, but I will practice more tomorrow.
This is wonderful all your knowledge you are sharing!!! :clap: Thank-you!

pastelist
01-12-2005, 09:47 PM
This is a wonderful demo! Thanks for sharing it with us!

pastelist
01-12-2005, 09:47 PM
This is a wonderful demo! Thanks for sharing it with us!

margmackisack
01-12-2005, 09:57 PM
Dianne,

thanks for this excellent set of demos. So many tips to work with - particularly losing some of the mouth edges to avoid the lipstick look...

It seems ungrateful to add a query but this forum seems the closest I might get to finding an answer to something that has been really frustrating me. We have a local portrait-practicing group and the first thing that I realised when I tried to apply your guidance to one of my reference photos was that I never get a front-on view of the sitter. Mouths in three-quarter view must be somehow in perspective: do you have any tips on how to get the far side of the mouth the right amount shorter and narrower? Is it just a matter of very careful measurement against other face landmarks? I keep wanting to do some sort of perspective construction lines to pull the whole thing together (of course, I have the same question about eyes - and about generally getting the recession angles right....). For now I might just try getting some front-on views to practice with.

Thanks heaps,

Margaret

margmackisack
01-12-2005, 09:57 PM
Dianne,

thanks for this excellent set of demos. So many tips to work with - particularly losing some of the mouth edges to avoid the lipstick look...

It seems ungrateful to add a query but this forum seems the closest I might get to finding an answer to something that has been really frustrating me. We have a local portrait-practicing group and the first thing that I realised when I tried to apply your guidance to one of my reference photos was that I never get a front-on view of the sitter. Mouths in three-quarter view must be somehow in perspective: do you have any tips on how to get the far side of the mouth the right amount shorter and narrower? Is it just a matter of very careful measurement against other face landmarks? I keep wanting to do some sort of perspective construction lines to pull the whole thing together (of course, I have the same question about eyes - and about generally getting the recession angles right....). For now I might just try getting some front-on views to practice with.

Thanks heaps,

Margaret

llanpe
01-12-2005, 09:57 PM
Thanks, thanks, thanks, Dianne for all of this information. How many beautiful mouths posted, all of you are doing great. Good question Margaret.
I cant wait for the next step in the class
Peter

llanpe
01-12-2005, 09:57 PM
Thanks, thanks, thanks, Dianne for all of this information. How many beautiful mouths posted, all of you are doing great. Good question Margaret.
I cant wait for the next step in the class
Peter

elizabeth ours
01-12-2005, 11:00 PM
Excellent. Very much appreciated.

Liz :clap:

elizabeth ours
01-12-2005, 11:00 PM
Excellent. Very much appreciated.

Liz :clap:

Hezzy
01-12-2005, 11:51 PM
Is it too late to join the portrait classroom? I will try to get my mouths done as soon as possible. I need to finish my Tsunami painting and then will get right on it.

- Heather

Hezzy
01-12-2005, 11:51 PM
Is it too late to join the portrait classroom? I will try to get my mouths done as soon as possible. I need to finish my Tsunami painting and then will get right on it.

- Heather

DLGardner
01-12-2005, 11:56 PM
Dianne,

thanks for this excellent set of demos. So many tips to work with - particularly losing some of the mouth edges to avoid the lipstick look...

It seems ungrateful to add a query but this forum seems the closest I might get to finding an answer to something that has been really frustrating me. We have a local portrait-practicing group and the first thing that I realised when I tried to apply your guidance to one of my reference photos was that I never get a front-on view of the sitter. Mouths in three-quarter view must be somehow in perspective: do you have any tips on how to get the far side of the mouth the right amount shorter and narrower? Is it just a matter of very careful measurement against other face landmarks? I keep wanting to do some sort of perspective construction lines to pull the whole thing together (of course, I have the same question about eyes - and about generally getting the recession angles right....). For now I might just try getting some front-on views to practice with.

Thanks heaps,

Margaret
I understand your concern and yes its something I too have considered discussing here. Give me a day or so and I'll get back with you all on this with either a demo or something to that effect.

Dianne

DLGardner
01-12-2005, 11:56 PM
Dianne,

thanks for this excellent set of demos. So many tips to work with - particularly losing some of the mouth edges to avoid the lipstick look...

It seems ungrateful to add a query but this forum seems the closest I might get to finding an answer to something that has been really frustrating me. We have a local portrait-practicing group and the first thing that I realised when I tried to apply your guidance to one of my reference photos was that I never get a front-on view of the sitter. Mouths in three-quarter view must be somehow in perspective: do you have any tips on how to get the far side of the mouth the right amount shorter and narrower? Is it just a matter of very careful measurement against other face landmarks? I keep wanting to do some sort of perspective construction lines to pull the whole thing together (of course, I have the same question about eyes - and about generally getting the recession angles right....). For now I might just try getting some front-on views to practice with.

Thanks heaps,

Margaret
I understand your concern and yes its something I too have considered discussing here. Give me a day or so and I'll get back with you all on this with either a demo or something to that effect.

Dianne

DLGardner
01-13-2005, 12:53 AM
Goodness, to all of you who joined welcome! No, its not too late Heather, not at all. Judi, I love that baby's mouth. So cute! And yours are great too Mazie, you're getting it!

Good job everyone. Thanks for taking part and keep up the practice. Next assignment is...

Put a piece of paper on your head and draw a mouth with one line...

just joking. We used to do that in girlscouts.

Seriously, I can't believe this participation and all these gorgeous mouths! It is wonderful!

Dianne

DLGardner
01-13-2005, 12:53 AM
Goodness, to all of you who joined welcome! No, its not too late Heather, not at all. Judi, I love that baby's mouth. So cute! And yours are great too Mazie, you're getting it!

Good job everyone. Thanks for taking part and keep up the practice. Next assignment is...

Put a piece of paper on your head and draw a mouth with one line...

just joking. We used to do that in girlscouts.

Seriously, I can't believe this participation and all these gorgeous mouths! It is wonderful!

Dianne

DLGardner
01-13-2005, 09:20 PM
The angled head.

Lets start with some basics proportions concerning the placement of the mouth. The corner of the mouth comes directly under the center of the eye when facing directly at you. Or, for a better understanding, it comes to the center of the eye socket. So that no matter where the eyes are looking, the center of the eye socket doesn't change its placement in the skull, so I think I'm safe to say that.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jan-2005/8002-Amapa.jpg

Now the way I learned to draw the face years ago was to draw a line to indicate the center of the head. It will be a circular line as though an oval is drawn from the tip of your nose to your chin, through your throat and out the back of the bottom of your head up over your head and down the brow and back to the nose.

Then I draw three lines around the face horizontally to indicate where I will put the eyes, nose and mouth. These three lines will be the center of the head, one third of that and then another third. If the face will be looking up the lines will curve down, and down, the lines will curve up.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jan-2005/8002-Amapb.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jan-2005/8002-Amapc.jpg

The Center of the topline will be an adult's eyeline, (a child's eyeline will be just below this). The center of the middle line will be the bottom of the nose, and the center of the last line will be the center of the mouth.

Now since the corners of the mouth fall under the center of the eye socket, when the face is turned the line under the eye socket will follow the curve of that center line down the face to the horizontal lip line and that is where you are going to put the ends of your mouth.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jan-2005/8002-Amapd.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jan-2005/8002-Amape.jpg

Here's an example on a model. If you are working from a photo graph you can make a copy of it and draw your guide lines on the photo.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jan-2005/8002-Amap5.jpg

Now my lines are not really accurate as I'm a clutz when it comes to photo shop. But I think you get the idea.
There is one other thing that we need to remember when doing an angle of the lips and that is that the lips protrude. This is going to interrupt how you show the lip edge on the side of the face that is turned from you. The fullest part of the lip is in the center and then it thins as you come back into the edge. Also, the top lip protrudes slightly over the bottom lip (usually, unless you have a pout). The total protrusion of the lips may cover up the mouth's far edge depending on the angle of your model's head and the size of their lips.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jan-2005/8002-Amapf.jpg

Remember too that no guides work better than actually observing the model or photo reference set before you. I hope this helps some.

DLGardner
01-13-2005, 09:20 PM
The angled head.

Lets start with some basics proportions concerning the placement of the mouth. The corner of the mouth comes directly under the center of the eye when facing directly at you. Or, for a better understanding, it comes to the center of the eye socket. So that no matter where the eyes are looking, the center of the eye socket doesn't change its placement in the skull, so I think I'm safe to say that.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jan-2005/8002-Amapa.jpg

Now the way I learned to draw the face years ago was to draw a line to indicate the center of the head. It will be a circular line as though an oval is drawn from the tip of your nose to your chin, through your throat and out the back of the bottom of your head up over your head and down the brow and back to the nose.

Then I draw three lines around the face horizontally to indicate where I will put the eyes, nose and mouth. These three lines will be the center of the head, one third of that and then another third. If the face will be looking up the lines will curve down, and down, the lines will curve up.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jan-2005/8002-Amapb.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jan-2005/8002-Amapc.jpg

The Center of the topline will be an adult's eyeline, (a child's eyeline will be just below this). The center of the middle line will be the bottom of the nose, and the center of the last line will be the center of the mouth.

Now since the corners of the mouth fall under the center of the eye socket, when the face is turned the line under the eye socket will follow the curve of that center line down the face to the horizontal lip line and that is where you are going to put the ends of your mouth.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jan-2005/8002-Amapd.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jan-2005/8002-Amape.jpg

Here's an example on a model. If you are working from a photo graph you can make a copy of it and draw your guide lines on the photo.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jan-2005/8002-Amap5.jpg

Now my lines are not really accurate as I'm a clutz when it comes to photo shop. But I think you get the idea.
There is one other thing that we need to remember when doing an angle of the lips and that is that the lips protrude. This is going to interrupt how you show the lip edge on the side of the face that is turned from you. The fullest part of the lip is in the center and then it thins as you come back into the edge. Also, the top lip protrudes slightly over the bottom lip (usually, unless you have a pout). The total protrusion of the lips may cover up the mouth's far edge depending on the angle of your model's head and the size of their lips.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jan-2005/8002-Amapf.jpg

Remember too that no guides work better than actually observing the model or photo reference set before you. I hope this helps some.

eileenclaire
01-13-2005, 10:31 PM
Dianne, this just keeps getting better and better! You are one amazing teacher!

eileenclaire
01-13-2005, 10:31 PM
Dianne, this just keeps getting better and better! You are one amazing teacher!

margmackisack
01-13-2005, 11:13 PM
Dianne,

thank you for this explanation: you just answered several questions I didn't realise I had. What a great tutorial. Now to practice! :clap: (why are there no three-quarter face smiles? That's what I'd like to put here....)

Margaret

margmackisack
01-13-2005, 11:13 PM
Dianne,

thank you for this explanation: you just answered several questions I didn't realise I had. What a great tutorial. Now to practice! :clap: (why are there no three-quarter face smiles? That's what I'd like to put here....)

Margaret

DLGardner
01-13-2005, 11:19 PM
(why are there no three-quarter face smiles? That's what I'd like to put here....)
Ah! Another challenge. Ok, give me another day. :wink2:

DLGardner
01-13-2005, 11:19 PM
(why are there no three-quarter face smiles? That's what I'd like to put here....)
Ah! Another challenge. Ok, give me another day. :wink2:

Judi1957
01-14-2005, 12:18 AM
Dianne,
That was a wonderful demonstration! :clap: :clap: Very clear. Thank-you!!!!
Only got one done again. Oh well, tomorrow.. :)

Now that I uploaded, I see the crease of her mouth on our right goes out to far. I'll fix that. Funny you don't see it until it is uploaded, you seem to gain a little objectivity when it is on the screen.

Judi1957
01-14-2005, 12:18 AM
Dianne,
That was a wonderful demonstration! :clap: :clap: Very clear. Thank-you!!!!
Only got one done again. Oh well, tomorrow.. :)

Now that I uploaded, I see the crease of her mouth on our right goes out to far. I'll fix that. Funny you don't see it until it is uploaded, you seem to gain a little objectivity when it is on the screen.

artacademy
01-14-2005, 12:21 AM
Diane, another way to establish the corners of the mouth is to work down from the angles of the smile lines, the nasal labial furrows. This works especially with fully stretched smiles or, conversely, puckered lips. Another major thing to look out for is making the notch below the nose, the philtrum, too long. You know that happens when you run out of chin. Great lesson.

artacademy
01-14-2005, 12:21 AM
Diane, another way to establish the corners of the mouth is to work down from the angles of the smile lines, the nasal labial furrows. This works especially with fully stretched smiles or, conversely, puckered lips. Another major thing to look out for is making the notch below the nose, the philtrum, too long. You know that happens when you run out of chin. Great lesson.

guillot
01-14-2005, 11:19 AM
Diane - what a wonderful class. I really would love to join in with you folks over here - I need the practice for sure!!! I've got 3 projects in my path right now - that I need to get behind me, but when I get to the point where I have the time - even if while watching TV - I'll see if I can practice some mouths too :)

Cath - thanks for the invitation too :)

Wonderful work everyone !!!!!

Tina

guillot
01-14-2005, 11:19 AM
Diane - what a wonderful class. I really would love to join in with you folks over here - I need the practice for sure!!! I've got 3 projects in my path right now - that I need to get behind me, but when I get to the point where I have the time - even if while watching TV - I'll see if I can practice some mouths too :)

Cath - thanks for the invitation too :)

Wonderful work everyone !!!!!

Tina

artbabe21
01-14-2005, 08:10 PM
Dianne, you ARE da bomb & that's a GOOD thing!! :wave:
Can't tell you how much I appreciate all you have taught here! Many things I have never known! You rock gal!! This is awesome information!! :D

artbabe21
01-14-2005, 08:10 PM
Dianne, you ARE da bomb & that's a GOOD thing!! :wave:
Can't tell you how much I appreciate all you have taught here! Many things I have never known! You rock gal!! This is awesome information!! :D

rosebard
01-14-2005, 10:58 PM
Diane

Thanks for the great demos! :) :)

Rose Bard.

rosebard
01-14-2005, 10:58 PM
Diane

Thanks for the great demos! :) :)

Rose Bard.

DLGardner
01-15-2005, 01:19 AM
Diane, another way to establish the corners of the mouth is to work down from the angles of the smile lines, the nasal labial furrows. This works especially with fully stretched smiles or, conversely, puckered lips. Another major thing to look out for is making the notch below the nose, the philtrum, too long. You know that happens when you run out of chin. Great lesson.
Thanks for adding that great tip artacademy!
There really is a lot more we could consider. Any added information in this thread is gladly accepted. Thank you!

Lovely painting by the way.

Dianne

DLGardner
01-15-2005, 01:19 AM
Diane, another way to establish the corners of the mouth is to work down from the angles of the smile lines, the nasal labial furrows. This works especially with fully stretched smiles or, conversely, puckered lips. Another major thing to look out for is making the notch below the nose, the philtrum, too long. You know that happens when you run out of chin. Great lesson.
Thanks for adding that great tip artacademy!
There really is a lot more we could consider. Any added information in this thread is gladly accepted. Thank you!

Lovely painting by the way.

Dianne

peoplepainter
01-15-2005, 08:44 AM
Checking back in I see everyone has really done a great job! What great lessons you have offered, Dianne. You have been so generous with your time and talent. I've learned a lot from you and from all the posts that followed your instructions!

A big "thank you" from me.

Lisa

peoplepainter
01-15-2005, 08:44 AM
Checking back in I see everyone has really done a great job! What great lessons you have offered, Dianne. You have been so generous with your time and talent. I've learned a lot from you and from all the posts that followed your instructions!

A big "thank you" from me.

Lisa

artbabe21
01-15-2005, 01:27 PM
I also want to say a HUGE thank you to Eileen for coming up with this brilliant classroom experience for all of us & implementing it so well!! BRAVO! I am truly grateful for all you have done for this forum!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

artbabe21
01-15-2005, 01:27 PM
I also want to say a HUGE thank you to Eileen for coming up with this brilliant classroom experience for all of us & implementing it so well!! BRAVO! I am truly grateful for all you have done for this forum!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Pars
01-15-2005, 03:53 PM
I also want to say a HUGE thank you to Eileen for coming up with this brilliant classroom experience for all of us & implementing it so well!! BRAVO! I am truly grateful for all you have done for this forum!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

More than ditto. I am very grateful that Eileen came round to the other forums and brought me out of my hiatus. Can't wait to get settled in a new flat and get myself busy.

Eileen, many thanks.

Pars
01-15-2005, 03:53 PM
I also want to say a HUGE thank you to Eileen for coming up with this brilliant classroom experience for all of us & implementing it so well!! BRAVO! I am truly grateful for all you have done for this forum!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

More than ditto. I am very grateful that Eileen came round to the other forums and brought me out of my hiatus. Can't wait to get settled in a new flat and get myself busy.

Eileen, many thanks.

stoney
01-15-2005, 10:45 PM
Blah, Judi, Sultry and now Fireman's Kid--OH MAMA! My students are leavin' me!! :D Truth be told? I'm taking the class too. I think this is a great idea. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Heh. Nah, not leaving. Busier than all getout though. The timing on this thread is excellant as I'm taking a basic drawing class and the current project is a graphite portrait which is 15" x 18" and doubled in size from the reference photo.

stoney
01-15-2005, 10:45 PM
Blah, Judi, Sultry and now Fireman's Kid--OH MAMA! My students are leavin' me!! :D Truth be told? I'm taking the class too. I think this is a great idea. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Heh. Nah, not leaving. Busier than all getout though. The timing on this thread is excellant as I'm taking a basic drawing class and the current project is a graphite portrait which is 15" x 18" and doubled in size from the reference photo.

Hezzy
01-16-2005, 10:06 AM
Sorry for joining so late. I did a few mouths while at my sons basketball practice. This is wonderful!

- Heather :wave:

Hezzy
01-16-2005, 10:06 AM
Sorry for joining so late. I did a few mouths while at my sons basketball practice. This is wonderful!

- Heather :wave:

DLGardner
01-16-2005, 11:09 AM
Very well done Hezzy! Thanks for joining us.

Dianne

DLGardner
01-16-2005, 11:09 AM
Very well done Hezzy! Thanks for joining us.

Dianne

Blah
01-16-2005, 01:56 PM
Dianne...thank you very much for being so generous with your time, effort and expertise, and Eileen for going over to the D&S forum and inviting us over.

Here are a few mouths I did today. I really enjoyed doing these exercises.

Blah

Blah
01-16-2005, 01:56 PM
Dianne...thank you very much for being so generous with your time, effort and expertise, and Eileen for going over to the D&S forum and inviting us over.

Here are a few mouths I did today. I really enjoyed doing these exercises.

Blah

eileenclaire
01-16-2005, 11:05 PM
Thank you, Cathleen and Zoe. I appreciate your kind words.

Blah, I'm glad to see you joining in!

It's great to see all these wonderful studies!

eileenclaire
01-16-2005, 11:05 PM
Thank you, Cathleen and Zoe. I appreciate your kind words.

Blah, I'm glad to see you joining in!

It's great to see all these wonderful studies!

Lyn_R
01-17-2005, 04:37 AM
Dianne.....Thank you, thank you, thank you!! I am just beginning to try portraits and your demonstrations are invaluable.

Lyn

Lyn_R
01-17-2005, 04:37 AM
Dianne.....Thank you, thank you, thank you!! I am just beginning to try portraits and your demonstrations are invaluable.

Lyn

pastelist
01-17-2005, 11:42 AM
This is wonderful! The learning curve is truly amazing. There are so many artists that will benefit from the classroom. Thanks for allowing me to participate. Congratulations on your beginning and may your success continue!
:clap:

pastelist
01-17-2005, 11:42 AM
This is wonderful! The learning curve is truly amazing. There are so many artists that will benefit from the classroom. Thanks for allowing me to participate. Congratulations on your beginning and may your success continue!
:clap:

Hezzy
01-17-2005, 01:31 PM
Here are 2 mouths in a recent commission I did for the holidays. I had a lot of teeth to work with and am more pleased with the Mr. than the Mrs. Hey both had these great big grins... something I am not that comfortable with. So what do you all think? Where can I make improvements in the future?

- Heather

PS this work is colored pencil on paper FYI

Hezzy
01-17-2005, 01:31 PM
Here are 2 mouths in a recent commission I did for the holidays. I had a lot of teeth to work with and am more pleased with the Mr. than the Mrs. Hey both had these great big grins... something I am not that comfortable with. So what do you all think? Where can I make improvements in the future?

- Heather

PS this work is colored pencil on paper FYI

instargalv
01-18-2005, 10:58 PM
Diane, thanks for taking the time to put together such a great demo. I've already used what I learned on two portraits. I still need a lot of practice painting mouths, but at least now I don't approach them with fear and dread.

Robert

instargalv
01-18-2005, 10:58 PM
Diane, thanks for taking the time to put together such a great demo. I've already used what I learned on two portraits. I still need a lot of practice painting mouths, but at least now I don't approach them with fear and dread.

Robert

Striver
01-20-2005, 03:25 AM
Hi
Turn my back and miss the train, almost? you are all so quick but I still want to commit myself to the homework. Do you think like I do, there is a conspirotry to keep me away from my art, kids, wife, chores etc etc. Cant rip the phone out to stop the interuptions, then i can not join in WC.
Well despite all odds here is my humble attempt, feel I won something getting this done. Guess what, I am supposed to be retired and have endless time to myself. Hmm.
Cheers
Les

Striver
01-20-2005, 03:25 AM
Hi
Turn my back and miss the train, almost? you are all so quick but I still want to commit myself to the homework. Do you think like I do, there is a conspirotry to keep me away from my art, kids, wife, chores etc etc. Cant rip the phone out to stop the interuptions, then i can not join in WC.
Well despite all odds here is my humble attempt, feel I won something getting this done. Guess what, I am supposed to be retired and have endless time to myself. Hmm.
Cheers
Les

DLGardner
01-20-2005, 12:20 PM
Heather, these are great. I couldn't click on them though to see them upclose. Maybe its just my computer. I always admire colored pencil artists.

Les, nice sketches. Keep it up!

To those who have commented that you have found value in this a BIG thank you for taking the time and effort! This lessons has been unmearsurably rewarding for me also as I've never taught anything like this before. It is very encouraging!

Dianne

DLGardner
01-20-2005, 12:20 PM
Heather, these are great. I couldn't click on them though to see them upclose. Maybe its just my computer. I always admire colored pencil artists.

Les, nice sketches. Keep it up!

To those who have commented that you have found value in this a BIG thank you for taking the time and effort! This lessons has been unmearsurably rewarding for me also as I've never taught anything like this before. It is very encouraging!

Dianne

Mikki Petersen
01-23-2005, 04:51 PM
Dianne, this is a wonderfully informative and valuable thread. I have read it from start to finish as I'm working on a portrait in acrylics and the subject has a difficult "stiff upper lip" mouth. I don't usually paint portraits and I rarely work in acrylics but a commission is a commission, right? You have a real gift for explaining techniques.

Mikki

Mikki Petersen
01-23-2005, 04:51 PM
Dianne, this is a wonderfully informative and valuable thread. I have read it from start to finish as I'm working on a portrait in acrylics and the subject has a difficult "stiff upper lip" mouth. I don't usually paint portraits and I rarely work in acrylics but a commission is a commission, right? You have a real gift for explaining techniques.

Mikki

Hezzy
01-24-2005, 09:04 AM
I do not know why they just didn't upload properly. I am trying it again... Thanks! I love doing colored pencil portraits. I usually get oil commissions but I truely prefer the pencils...

- Heather

Hezzy
01-24-2005, 09:04 AM
I do not know why they just didn't upload properly. I am trying it again... Thanks! I love doing colored pencil portraits. I usually get oil commissions but I truely prefer the pencils...

- Heather

artbabe21
01-25-2005, 11:41 AM
Thanks Dianne for generously sharing your demo & beyond with us!! :D Eileen...I'm so grateful to your wonderful insight in creating this classroom experience for us!!

Please continue with this thread as long as you like....I will direct you to the next feature of our classroon on the EYE by Lisa (peoplepainter) who graciously has taken the time for this next demonstration!! :wave: This is a continuing series. It will always be in a sticky at the top of the page!! :D

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245708

artbabe21
01-25-2005, 11:41 AM
Thanks Dianne for generously sharing your demo & beyond with us!! :D Eileen...I'm so grateful to your wonderful insight in creating this classroom experience for us!!

Please continue with this thread as long as you like....I will direct you to the next feature of our classroon on the EYE by Lisa (peoplepainter) who graciously has taken the time for this next demonstration!! :wave: This is a continuing series. It will always be in a sticky at the top of the page!! :D

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245708

Sweigart
01-25-2005, 02:06 PM
Diane,
Thank you so much for your help on the mouth. You did a great job of simplifying things.
Andrew

Sweigart
01-25-2005, 02:06 PM
Diane,
Thank you so much for your help on the mouth. You did a great job of simplifying things.
Andrew

sugar tree gal
02-01-2005, 02:53 PM
Dianne, just found this... Great job.. and hope this Portrait Classroom cont.. Thanks so much... :) Janice

alda28
02-09-2005, 04:46 PM
Thanks, dianne, your explanation made this lesson seem so easy. I'm going to practice this one. alda28

Laurie2
02-25-2005, 05:37 PM
Practising.........some bits 'n pieces

Cestlavie
03-03-2005, 02:09 AM
Thank you for taking the time to do this beautiful demonstration.

maria_khurram
03-30-2005, 02:22 AM
Great demo Lisa. I have studied about mouths now see how I did.

Dana Design
04-21-2005, 02:16 PM
Well, apparently there is a glitch in the system. So many people here have voted 5 STARS for this thread but it's just not appearing!

So Cath and I officially declare this thread a 5 STAR THREAD! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

DLGardner
05-10-2005, 02:44 PM
Thank you Dana, Cath and all for the stars, and for participating. The classroom idea is really helpful and I'm enjoying the other ones at this point too!

Dianne

ArtsyMom x3
08-12-2005, 05:09 PM
Here are some mouths with teeth, children's to add to the mix for references...these were asked for in another forum, so I figured I would share them here too...

baby teeth:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2005/30384-beth_teeth.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2005/30384-hannah_teeth.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2005/30384-Catherine_teeth.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2005/30384-william_teeth.jpg

permanent (non-corrected) teeth:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2005/30384-will_teeth.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2005/30384-Rebecca_teeth.jpg

ArtsyMom x3
08-18-2005, 03:54 PM
for reference, here is a mouth that I just finished on my current watercolor portrait commission, a woman's mouth, full teeth showing... http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2005/30384-Liz_teeth.jpg

ArtsyMom x3
09-16-2005, 06:42 PM
Another mouth sample, teenager...watercolor
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Sep-2005/30384-catherine_mouth.jpg

ArtsyMom x3
11-14-2005, 06:17 PM
Here's another mouth, pre-teen boy, pre-braces
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Nov-2005/30384-mouth_nose2.jpg