Taboo Topics???

[tammy]

I'm becoming concerned about the increasing topics coming up about Titles and Paintings.
Current ones for example, Lori's Title on her posts and Michaels drawings.
Because of posts such as the above, topics and threads are being closed because they become rather hot and then just become renewed in another form in other topics and forums. Same statements, different words.
Some are even putting ideas in our heads about a person's very personality rather we want that conception of the person in our heads or not just because we ended up reading the last most popular post. As you may notice these kind of posts do get a lot of posts. Some could be viewed as rather serious if the perceptions were actually true of that person's intentions or background.
In view of all that, I feel that if such things as these keep coming up, don't you all think that perhaps a person's feelings and or suspicions on these things would best be handled by informing Scott and or the person/or discussion of art that is involved instead of presenting it for public fodder.
True it does present interesting things to talk about and makes one's post rather long, but what happens if a rapists, murderer etc did show up under Artist guise? Would we openly banter with someone whom we had such suspicions of?
I hope you get my point. I really think some of these matters would best be in the consideration of the Webmaster and in Privacy. People's reputations are important, let's not ruin anyone's by mistake.
Thanks for bearing with me.

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Tammy "I MUST be an Artist, artist".

[Capart]

What exactly got presented for public fodder?
Was in answer to my post?
Did I offend someone?
I have been out for the last few hours so missed what was going on.
Now I am more than intrigued.
Capx

[CkA]

Tammy - your heart is in the right place but what you are suggesting is censorship.

I vote NO WAY! These discussions are a big part of what WC is all about.

BTW Scott and others (Larry in Debates) already monitor the forums and have the ability to close threads that get out of hand.

CIndy

[Capart]

I think if you allow subject matter with a naked content ,then this is going to elicit
(from some) comments of a bawdy nature.
I do not agree with censorship, but there must be some guidelines in place, even warnings.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion and has a right to put it out there so to speak.Providing they mean no malice.
I think there are enough smart people in here that will detect and boot those that do.
I enjoy the critique forum, I like that it isn't ridgid.
I do appreciate Tammys concerns though.
What to do??

[sgtaylor]

I think the system is working pretty well, and would not like to see any changes.

People do get angry, and people do get their feelings hurt. People are occasionally tempted to take an unfair potshot at someone to make a point. There are times when a relatively inoffensive individual offends a particularly sensitive individual, and although I can't think of any examples here, it is certainly possible that a really nasty individual would make posts to deliberately offend.

If I found that I was truly offended by something I would probably not start a thread about it. I believe that I am no more fond of this sort of topic than you are. But I don't think we should be in too much of a hurry to run to the moderators about things either. And the specific instances you mention raise valid issues. Yes, those issues can be unpleasent, but in the majority of cases the topics have been handled respectfully and the different sides have come to some understanding of one another.

The moderator's job is to monitor the threads and step in if - in the moderator's judgment - stepping in is called for. I think we all trust the moderators here, and should I ever strongly disagree with a decision made (and that hasn't happened yet) I would contact them and say, "Hey, why'd you do that?"

If I saw something totally out of line on one of the threads, I would probably respond to the specific individual through e-mail - but if I did suspect that I was talking to someone dangerous (or something - not really sure,) I would consult the moderator or someone else here that I trust for advice.

All that being said, I think that it is a mistake to limit the sort of topics that can be discussed here. One of the best ways of increasing understanding is a good heated debate with someone you don't see eye to eye with. As long as everyone remains civil, somebody will learn something from the conversation. This may be true even if parties do not remain civil.

So yes... we need a mechanism for dealing with things if they start to get out of hand. But we do have that mechanism. That this or that particular topic seems destined to get out of hand... well I would still prefer to let it go on until it does cross the line. I've learned a lot reading postings here that have descended into bickering and name calling. I understand that the threads needed to be closed, but I'm glad that they were opened. Some of the cat fights over in oil painting are a real hoot. I wouldn't have missed them for the world!

Cindy's right. Censorship is not the right answer.

[tammy]

Originally posted by sgtaylor:

If I saw something totally out of line on one of the threads, I would probably respond to the specific individual through e-mail - but if I did suspect that I was talking to someone dangerous (or something - not really sure,) I would consult the moderator or someone else here that I trust for advice.


Thanks Sg as I believe this is what I am talking about. I'm not sure. It was late when I wrote it. I guess I thought that new ones or others might now think of Mike as being a sex crazed maniac which as we all know he is not, and yet I wasn't saying that the person who thinks he or anyone else might be should not be allowed to express an opinion as such. I only meant that perhaps it would be better done in private just as you've said above. But then, that would have to be the choice of the one making that assertion and they might like to start a topic instead of emailing anyone. I wasn't saying we should stop these from saying their opinions in public and also I was using the above just as examples, not the exact case of what I was thinking.
I don't really think what I was talking about is censorship. I'm not real smart, but isn't that not letting another say, think, feel, express etc etc what they want just because another person doesn't like it? See, I'm not real smart.
I therefore, retract my topic.
Oh heck, what was I saying now?
Forget it.




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Tammy "I MUST be an Artist, artist".

[tammy]

Originally posted by Capart:

Did I offend someone?
Capx
No, as far as I know you have not offended anyone.
Have you? Tell all. The rest of us do!
http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif



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Tammy "I MUST be an Artist, artist".

[tammy]

Originally posted by CkA:
Tammy - your heart is in the right place but what you are suggesting is censorship.

I vote NO WAY! These discussions are a big part of what WC is all about.


CIndy
Perhaps you're right. I guess its time to shed my thin skin and get right in the middle of em with boxing gloves on!
Just kidding! http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif
No actually, I really do have some opinions which I've kept under wraps sometimes just because I know the kind of reaction they could get, and (because I have thin skin).
Uh, is feeling too intimidated to speak one's comments a form of being censored or is it being cowardly?
You'r right. I'm cowardly! Hehe. Uh, the nerve of me to post this topic. Really!
http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif



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Tammy "I MUST be an Artist, artist".

[tammy]

Ps. I reread the topics in mind and its true.
I've overreacted a bit on this one.
Forgive me.


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Tammy "I MUST be an Artist, artist".

[Capart]

Tammy! poor baby! just want to scoop her up and mother!!!
Do not be afraid of airing your views , and from what I have seen you are very smart indeed!
Don't change for others.
I don't know you very well but of what I do ...well I think you are sweet and VERY CLEVER!!

[oleCC]

Tammy.... I "bite my tongue" quite often here lately in regards to the posts and responses you refer to. I am totally against censorship... but am a bit more cautious as to who I invite to browse here at wc. (i.e. younger emerging artists etc.). There was a time that simply wasn't the case. I just trust (hope) that Scott and the other moderators know when to "draw the line" rather than adopt the attitude that "anything goes if it increases traffic". !!
Some might think my attitude belongs back in the 50's... maybe so, but so be it.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif Carol

[LarrySeiler]

Carol....(and others)

The debate forum is a hotbed. Perhaps I would argue the most challenging for a moderator. I know that I have let things go just one point further than perhaps I should have only to see the next day Scott or llis stepped in to close.

For me...I mainly look to see that people offering opinions if in attacking, are attacking opinions and not the opinionator. To do so, I've also come to expect, anticipate, and appreciate when others offended at some point let me know. We are all busy, and having agreed to moderate does not mean I am less busy than others, so it is burdensome to read every post jot and tittle.

Perhaps one reason I let a thing go a bit longer than I should...is I invest my own interest in some of the topics, and engage. I am challenged to think a thing thru more in the exchange of ideas, and find my truer, firmer convictions. If I am letting something go longer...I would hope anyone here would so privately email me and let me know.

I also try to set an example, (but don't know if its seen or followed!), where after I've rambled a bit and said something as completely as I think I can...I announce it time I bow out. I know that to argue beyond that point is to allow your emotions to take over your head, and say and feel things you later regret. Well...that's just my take on it anyway.

One final point...
People know where I'm coming from ethically, and I don't personally like some of the discussions, but as a co-moderator...it is not about projecting/enforcing my values on others. In fact, that would undermine the very freewill I believe in.

Larry

[MichaelRH]

Hi Tammy -
Your concern is understandable. I too really do think about the images I post at Wetcanvas, and I also really do think about the topics I (start) in the forums..which, btw, are actually very few.
I have faith in the..."butt"-icon though, I still think it is a good caution, its purpose is well stated.

You'll note that I haven't really (STARTED) lol, any topics that deal with what might be considered a "taboo topic", but I do feel obligated now and then to respond to others who do.

I am very much aware that we have young people visiting Wetcanvas. My wife has three girls, all of whom were very young when Aida and I met. I made a point of NOT leaving some of my work on view in the studio..but I did not feel the need to hide my life-drawings and figure studies. (The academic/class-room work)
(Tammy, I hope you won't mind that I share these few notes with you??).
My wife is also an artist..we've had MANY!!!! discussions, as we are both pretty opinionated. We talk..argue..debate, agree and disagree about many things. But... we both love each other, and have a very high regard and respect for the goals we both choose to persue. We support each other in learning and trying to reach our own individual goals. (ie: if she or I sell our work..the money helps us all).
One time..Bev, my wife and I were involved in a very emotional discussion..I forget now what it was about..but I was busy (reacting)..as we all were, and Bev (my wife's youngest daughter) said something..which I didn't hear in the course of our argument. Bev said. "Michael..you didn't hear what I just said". I stopped..looked at her and waited for her to repeat what she said. and..I'll never forget what she said..(don't forget, I'm a step-dad) she said "Michael, you are the best role-model I've ever had". Needless to say, we all had tears in our eyes. (Guess I'm patting myself on the back here).
So Tammy, I do understand your concern. My artwork deals with a lot of ideas and concepts...all of which are about communication.
Aida, my wife will tell you that although I'm passionate about figurative painting and drawing..I have ALWAYS..been VERY concerned that (some) of my work NOT be viewed by children and young people. Even the person that hosts my website will tell you...I wrote to her at length about being SURE!! to place the appropriate cautions and warnings on very first page (entrance) to my website.

[tammy]

Actually Mike, I guess in this post I was really trying to take up for you (as if you needed it http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif )
To be honest, my convictions makes my seeing paintings of too sexual of a nature burdensome to me and I really don't enjoy seeing them constantly. On the other hand I also agree with the others about human sexuality, if that makes sense. lol
I of all people would not like to prohibit the showing of your drawings to others or even prohibit certain titles. You are drawing what interests you, if you didn't your results may not be as successful. Also, I do not find your drawings a surprise. I actually know that men are sight orientated (so I've been told) and women usually are not. I've already told you how much I admire your drawing skills and I mean it too. If some of your drawings were not available to be seen I would miss having something to learn from. You are appreciated.
Also, Larry
I was not trying to say that you are not doing your moderator duties either.
When I looked back, I thought "Well, aren't Moderators showing censorship also by closing topics and preventing others from expressing their views?"
Then I realize that "Well, no, because they are only closing them when they became off topic and well they should."
I guess I was only thinking of why close a topic just to have another on basicly the same thing crop up in another place and to end up with the same result, another closure. But yes, to prevent someone from doing that would be censorship so once again "I retract my topic". But of course only technically but not physically as that may look as if I'm censoring the answers that I've already gotten from this topic.And yes I realize that I'm also getting off my topic too.
See, Larry I can make quite a paragraph too huh?
Love ya all

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Tammy "I MUST be an Artist, artist".

[This message has been edited by tammy (edited November 04, 2000).]

[tammy]

Originally posted by lseiler:
Carol....(and others)


For me...I mainly look to see that people offering opinions if in attacking, are attacking opinions and not the opinionator. To do so, I've also come to expect, anticipate, and appreciate when others offended at some point let me know. We are all busy, and having agreed to moderate does not mean I am less busy than others, so it is burdensome to read every post jot and tittle.


Sounds reasonable to me.



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Tammy "I MUST be an Artist, artist".