View Full Version : Member Show Question

01-05-2005, 10:50 PM
One of the rules of the show is:
"* Artwork must be original - conceived and created by the entrant. No artwork created in a workshop, class, or from published materials should be submitted."

Does this exclude any work done with WDE references? Or from the WC ref library?

01-07-2005, 07:56 PM
yes. All paintings entered for the Member Show should be original, both in content and in creation by the artist. If works are painted using photos as reference, then those photos should have been taken by the artist and not published in the WC library.

Originality is taken into consideration by the judge and a very important aspect of the overall show content.


01-08-2005, 10:30 AM
Originality should be judged on approach to a subject, regardless of whether it comes from a photo or real life. It's quite simple for a landscape or still life artist to find local free references, but a portrait or animal artist who cannot afford to pay for a model has a little more trouble coming up with subject matter. Not everyone can take a photo that is of good enough quality to use for a good painting either. As long as there are no copyright issues this should not be a problem.
I had helped found and supported the oil pastel society because I thought it would be good for promoting the fine art qualities of the medium, but find now that some of my best work will be ineligible for entering the show. Having access to shows where oil pastels would be eligible was one of the main reasons the forum started having discussions regarding forming a society.
I find it a bit insulting to have it suggested my work has no originality due to the source, with no consideration given to color palette and handling of the medium, etc., and don't feel the society is representing my needs as an oil pastel artist.
Please remove my name and gallery from the OPS.

01-08-2005, 01:26 PM
I find it a bit insulting to have it suggested my work has no originality due to the source, with no consideration given to color palette and handling of the medium, etc., and don't feel the society is representing my needs as an oil pastel artist.
Please remove my name and gallery from the OPS.

Sue, I am sorry to hear that you feel this way. The quality of your work and the originality which you bring to each painting is unquestionable and outstanding. That is not the issue here.

In any juried show, there must be qualifications placed on acceptable entries. That is not meant to exclude anyone...it's meant to bring to the show a standard which all works can be juried by. Many shows require that all works submitted 'for that show' be from the artist's own resources....not from any published works, including photographs, art instructional books, or even Audubon plates (which were never copyrighted).

I agree originality should be judged on the artist's own unique approach to the subject.


01-11-2005, 12:31 AM
Man- I'd be upset, too- and I take my own reference pics. Everyone is told, from the time of membership here, that the pics from the RIL are for ALL ARTISTS use, and free from copyright infringement issues; ("If I sell the art that I have created, do I need to credit the photographer?
No. Works derived from a photo or photos found in our library are the copyright of the creator. The owner of the image retains all copyright to the original image in photographic form." Taken from this thread: http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162425 ) Since that is the case, there is absolutely no legal "originality" issue with using RIL materials. *shrug* Sounds as if this ruling means most public buildings- for example, Trevi Fountain, or The White House- public monuments- say, Tomb of the Unknown Soldier or Flander's Fields- and most tourista-type views- Pike's Market or Garden of the Gods would also have to be excluded by reason of lack of originality. Wouldn't want to do a view of one of Savannah's Squares and be accused of lack of originality just because so very many other artists and photographers have done the same thing.

I understand protecting the integrity of the work done with rules which preclude workshops and instruction, published-for-fee photo references, and other works PROTECTED by copyright from infringement. I also understand the extra step judges would have to take to make sure such a preclusion was upheld. However, to exclude the use of images from our RIL as reference material and calling it protection of the artwork's integrity, is, clearly, specious. Sounds like the kind of show I'd pass on, too.

01-11-2005, 12:50 PM
Carly, do you consider it's feasible to check from which reference the work is done? Anyone can tell for sure? What about a painting done from many references reshuffled and altered in a great measure? Having said that, I understand the idea behind the issue involved. When the painting is closely matched to a photograph, a healthy part of possible success belongs to artistic vision of a photographer.

As a matter of fact I don't know the practice of conducting such shows. I'm guided by common sense purely. Maybe that rule can be discussed or voted in some way.

01-11-2005, 04:13 PM
I'm going to give this a skip too, albeit for different reasons than the reference material controversy above.

Carly, correct me if I'm wrong but I thought this on-line show was going to be an informal thing, and that the main aim was to AVOID a competitive edge. I'm not quite sure where I picked this up, but I seem to remember that some (begining/non-professional members) signalled that they were a bit daunted entering a juried show, but would have liked the opportunity to put some of their work in a non-competitive on-line show. Please don't forget the newer non-professional associate members.

Personally, although I wouldn't mind entering a juried show I would be reluctant to enter this one. I don't think a digital image as per requirements of the entry guidelines can do full justice to someone's work (we all know from personal experience what the format does to our work when we post it here). Hence, how can a judge not familiar with our work make a justified choice? Nor do I feel it would do justice to the work shown on-line. I can just as well post it here with the advantage of it being free and I don't have to go to the stress of being juried.

I wouldn't go as far as with drawing my membership (I have had fun with the OPS so far, as the committee members are well aware), but I think this initiative was badly thought out, or not discussed well enough with the members.


01-11-2005, 08:00 PM
As I recall discussions surrounding forming this society, there were 2 main objectives.
One was to help the general public and the rest of the art community understand that Oil Pastels are a true artistís medium.
The other was as a place for shows where Oil Pastel pieces would be accepted.

I can understand that adopting formal show rules would be one way of showing the juried pastel shows that do not accept OPs what they are missing. However, if in doing that, a large number of the members of this newly formed group feel left out or given the impression that their work is not artistic enough to be in this show, then perhaps we need to rethink how we go about meeting these two objectives.

I do very much appreciate all of the effort and work each of the members of the board have put into getting this new group up and running.

Since this is a newly formed society about an emerging artistís medium, maybe we need to collectively come up with a kind of Mission Statement. And for major society events, maybe there should be a bit more general discussion first to see what the membership feels they want. We have this forum space available for just such discussions. Weíre not in any major hurry. The group of people in this society and on the OP forum are such a great bunch, I would hate to see anything happen to that sense of comraderie.

So for what itís worth, thatís my 2 centsÖ

01-12-2005, 01:27 AM
I'll drop my two pennies down for a thought. I have to say that I am disappointed that we can only use our own photos or from real life images. Being a novice to shows I am not sure if this the norm or not, but I think that as long as the photo you work from is copyright free we should be able to submit it. Because I do a lot of canine art, I almost always have to work from a photo and some of my work is from photos that other people have taken and given me permission to use or were copyright free. Of course I always tend to change the painting a great deal from the photo because all I am mainly after is the posture of the dog (and even that will get tweaked.)

I still plan to submit work to this show that qualifies according to the rules set down. I just wanted to voice my opinion only. Thanks for hearing me out.

01-12-2005, 01:39 PM
I'm not too concerned for myself as I tend to work from imagination with my OPs. And I know that in UK at least most juried shows exclude work from photos.

But as a lot of people work from photos (I do that with animal work)...why not have a special class for work from photos.

01-12-2005, 01:54 PM
BTW. The links to artists galleries and to art suppliers are not working on the OPS pages today. Is it a 'down-time', or what??

01-12-2005, 07:36 PM
Becky checked the links and found them working. I checked several of them that you mentioned and didn't have a problem either. If you find specific links, would you send an email to [email protected] and Pat and Becky both can check it out.

01-12-2005, 07:44 PM
If there's one thing that the OPS staff has learned since this Society adventure began, it's to be flexible :) We're working on the prospectus taking into consideration all the comments here and will post something as soon as possible.

I think what we're hearing is that the membership would like to have a more casual approach to our first member show so we're getting as innovative as possible to come up with some new ideas.

I want to really thank all of the members who are posting here. This forum was provided so that we could interact and discuss issues. I don't feel we've utilized it as thoroughly as we can but all of you have helped tremendously by posting :clap:


01-13-2005, 12:03 AM
Well as usual I tend to be a fence sitter. I see good in all that has been suggested. I do agree, that to be accepted in the art world as a bona fide medium, competition guidelines must be as strict, if not more so, than the current mainstream media. I have read competition guidelines that speak to the copyright free issue, stating that the entrant may be asked to submit proof of such. I do not recall any specs stating that if a ref image was used, it had to have been taken by the artist. Not saying that some competitions don't. (A good juror can spot an exact copy of a photo, and if he cant, then the work stands on its own merits.) This is, in my mind reasonable or else we would be flooded with entries of Spuds McKenzie or Time magazine's cover shot of their Person of the Year (unless of course this person is indeed sitting for you :) ) in an open competition. I, personally, was excited that we were able to get Terry Ludwig as juror. A well known and respected juror will go a long way in the acceptance of our society, .... particularly in its first ever competition. I would love to knock the socks off the rest of the art world!!!

I think Steven has brought up a good concern about the JPG's. Unless, we lead off with a closed online show / competition, I think slides are almost necessary. My camera and program are far from professional and color exactness rarely, if ever, occurs. I have more success with 35 mm slides in color repro. ( for those who don't own a SLR 35 mm camera, they can now be picked up for a song and a dance at pawn shops, thanks to the intro of the digital camera)

As usual, I have used a lot of words to say very little, but let me end with this. Discord within an organization is a normal catalyst for growth if problems are seen only as the absence of a solution.

01-13-2005, 11:03 AM
what do you mean by a 'closed online show'. Is this different from a member's only? Sorry, I just haven't heard that term before.

01-13-2005, 12:19 PM
Carly..yes, I used the term "closed" to refer to "members only", as viewed from a socialogical aspect. Sorry for any misunderstanding. (semantics! :) )

01-13-2005, 02:36 PM
Hi my links are working now!! Must have been my own pc fault!

BTW, I paid my membership yesterday. I am listed under associate member (I think I put my name under associate in the autumn)-but now I have paid the $30 fee...will I be transferred to the members list? Or is there an additional something else for me to do? :D

01-15-2005, 09:56 PM
if you would like for your work to be considered for the Professional category, you should read the information on the website at www.oilpastelsociety.com/membership.htm You will find all the information on how to submit images if you would like for the jury to consider other work than you have in your current gallery. Thanks for getting your dues paid so quickly!!

01-15-2005, 10:00 PM
Carly..yes, I used the term "closed" to refer to "members only", as viewed from a socialogical aspect. Sorry for any misunderstanding. (semantics! :) )

OK :) Only members who have their dues paid for 2005 will be eligible for the show....so it is a 'closed' show.