PDA

View Full Version : Master of the Month #13 - January 2005


guillot
12-31-2004, 01:56 PM
I forget .... It is the New Year for many members across the world. Time to start this New Year off with the first Master of the Month Activity.

JANUARY
THE SPANISH BAROQUE PAINTER
DIEGO RODRIGUEZ DE SILVA Y VELAZQUEZ (1599-1660)

In the beginning of this New Year, we explore on of the greatest painters of all time. Born in Seville Spain, Velazquez became a genius of his time at an early age. Velazquez’s first lessons came from Francisco de Herrera the Elder, and thereafter was a 5-year student of Francisco Pacheco. He married Pacheco’s daughter at the age of 19. He began as a court painter, and went on to become Spain’s greatest painter. He was known for being eager to work directly from life, and always exact in his technique. Almost all of his early painting utilized tonal organization, moreover known as painting in a “Tenebrist Manner”, which is characterized by dense impasto, restraint in the uses of color, mostly browns and ocher’s, objectivity of vision with a simple and natural conception, yet with a strong emphasis to contrasts of light and dark. He had a simple and yet profound respect for everything in nature, and this led him to become a master of technique, a master realist of his time, and became so with little influence from the outside yet conversely had a tremendous influence on European art more than any other painter.

At the age of 24, he painted a portrait of Philip IV! The monarch was so pleased with his work they granted him an official position in the palace, therefore becoming the official portraitist to the royal family and higher nobility. We could only dream of a position at such an early stage in our development.

While we could go on for a million words on the achievements and genius of Velazquez, it’s important to move on to a little more info on his technique and palette.

Best known for his colorful and warm portraits, his use of chiaroscuro, and as being referred to as the “painter’s painter”, Earlier paintings of Velazquez are retrospective of Carravagio in their treatment of light and shade, attention to realistic detail, and handling of paint. Very few preparatory drawings exist, although it is probable that some exist. He frequently made minor changes and alterations during the painting process that in many paintings can be seen today. In some of his earlier works, he wiped his brush clean on the canvas, and then later covered it. He most likely tempered his pigments with linseed for a reasonably fluid consistency and used thicker mediums for highlights. He preferred soft haired brushes, indicative of the fine blending, instead of bristles. His technique changed considerably during his career and his technique evolved into light feathery stokes.

An example of this can be seen in the “Waterseller of Seville” in which the upper layer of the collar of the tunic has become transparent with time, revealing the smaller initial collar underneath:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Dec-2004/5957-velazquez-collar_closeup.jpg


The choices for this MOM are the following:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Dec-2004/5957-velazquez-_waterseller.jpg
“The Waterseller of Seville”
Original Dimensions Dimensions are 42 in x 31 7/8 in

and/or:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Dec-2004/5957-velazquez_the_needlewoman.jpg
“The Needlewoman”
Original Dimensions are 29 1/8 in x 23 5/8 in

High-resolution pics can be found here: http://www.artchive.com/ftp_site.htm

The “Waterseller of Seville” was painted in or around 1620 and was one of a series of ordinary common folk, eating and drinking in dark interiors, along with “The Needlewoman”. These scenes are known as “Bodegones” and were popular in 17th century Spain, and represent some of his earlier works.

A typical Baroque Palette consisted of the following pigments and/or oil paints:
Azurite – modern day substitute = Prussian Blue
Carmine
Charcoal Black – modern day substitute = Lamp Black
Green Earth = more commonly and modernly known as Terre Verde (Green Earth)
Indigo = can be achieved with Prussian Blue also
Lead-Tin Yellow – modern day substitute = Naples Yellow
Madder Lake
Red Ochre
Smalt - Modern day substitute = Cobalt Blue
Verdigris – Modern day substitute = Viridian
Weld – I have no idea but believe Cad Yellow M is a good substitute
Natural Ultramarine
Umbers
White Lead
Yellow Ocher

Brushes: Sables and/or really good synthetics

Probable working sequence: Direct Painting

Velazquez most often chose fine, regular weave canvas in which he covered with a dark brown ground using a palette knife.
Block in main areas of light and dark
Develop these areas further and finely blend
Get to the details
The face was probably painted quickly and in one session.
Touch up highlights with thicker oil paint.

Also good to mention that “He painted the reflection of light in forms and colors, rather than the forms and colors themselves; his drawing, such is its perfection, appears to illuminate his figures and details from within. This precision of outline, this subtle blending of tones and colors, this intervention of atmosphere between the eye and its object do as much to define the style of the artist as his simple and profound respect for everything in nature. A free and comprehensive vision of all the elements of reality, men, things, landscape, and not the least, the spirit, blazes forth ….. in the work of this period browns and golden ochers and the blacks, pinks, and reds of the costumes stand out against silvery or lead-blue backgrounds………..”

Baroque painting emphasized earthly colors and a good discussion can be found in the December discussion thread on Velazquez and Baroque painting here:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234374

Tina

Biki
01-01-2005, 01:59 AM
Thanks Tina.

I'm in.!! - it is time again for me to tread the boards & copy a master.!!

None better than old Val-baby.

see you there. :wave: :D

guillot
01-01-2005, 10:15 AM
Hi Biki! Definitely a great way to begin the new year!!! Hope to see you and many others on our 2nd year of MOM's. The first year was a great success.

I forgot to add too, that what we are doing is swapping off the responsibility of hosting. Every other month, someone else in the oil team will be researching, writing, and posting the Month's activities based on the schedule that we put together a few months ago.

So, a new, busy year of great choices!! Wishing you all a blessed New Year!!

Tina

dcorc
01-01-2005, 10:57 AM
Excellent, Tina !

A great start to our second year of MOMs - I'm certainly aboard for this one too - and very pleased all the Mods and Guides are presenting, this year :cool: (as an aside, Barb and I want to do some things we hope will rev up the Classical forum a bit, this year ;) )

Dave

WV.Artistry
01-01-2005, 11:30 AM
Weld – I have no idea but believe Cobalt Yellow M is a good substitute

Tina

Check my canvas math : 30x40in, could be reduced to 18x24in?

Here's more information than what is useful other than a mental note of historical problems of permanency with Lake Yellow's. The treatise on oil painting says avoid lake colors.

That said, it's supposed to be very transparent and an ideal pigment for glazing. Glazed over a white ground it produces an striking effect of yellow stained glass. Note: I've tried an off-the-shelf brand of Lake Yellow and it was not transparent. Threw it away.

Fugitive (pigment or dye colors that fade when exposed to light). One of the names given to a common yellow lake was "schijtgeel", weld, or fading yellow.

Weld is reputed to be the oldest European dye plant in the world.

Made from the flower of Dyer's Rocket, a tall growing relative of the garden mignonette. The color is derived from the flower. Used for dying silk and woolen materials as well as for making paints. For oil paint, it must first be precipitated onto alum and then kneaded with chalk to give it bulk.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Jan-2005/53202-weld.jpg

Weld (wouw, woude, schijtgeel),
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Jan-2005/53202-palette_lead_tin_yellow.jpg

Lake Yellow Pigment
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Jan-2005/53202-yellow_lake.jpg

guillot
01-01-2005, 12:32 PM
Ah - A typo, LOL :o I'll go back and fix that.

I meant CAD Yellow Medium, :p

Heck maybe even cad Yellow deep would be close.

Thanks for that info Richard !!

Tina

rwhiteley
01-02-2005, 03:33 PM
re canvas size, my calculator says that "Needlewoman" can also be done 16x20, while "Waterseller" would technically be 16x21, would I suppose be ok as 16x20 for those like me who like to paint a bit smaller.
What great selections!! :clap:
Looking forward to trying both during the month.
Happy [belated] New Year to all MOM painters. I am so glad I found this place.
Richard 2.

By the way my really fun project in Fall 2004 was to paint "The Boating Party" by Renoir. Spent about 40 hours on it, 30x40. Heres the result.

Lynn Larson
01-02-2005, 05:30 PM
Richard, love the Renoir...you must have a lot of patience!! Very beautiful.

I've been chomping at the bit for the MOM to start. I started on The Needlewoman today. I think the face is going to be tough for me...having a hard time with the nose. I just started blocking in color

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2005/20353-nw1.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2005/20353-nw2.jpg

The color is going to be interesting. What I see on the monitor and what comes out of the printer are very different. C & C welcome, that is why I'm here :D

edit: It's 11 x 14...that was what I had

Moosehead
01-02-2005, 07:39 PM
You have been encouraging less experienced painters to join in, so I'm going to throw my hat into the ring. Don't be surprised, however, if my "Waterseller of Seville" end up looking like the "Watercooler of Seville" :D .

I already have a question. With something as intricate as this, I would usually "transfer" the image using charcoal on the back of an enlarged greyscale printout. Would it be ok to use something like a light coloured soft (chalk) pastel under oil paint? If not, any other suggestions (I know, I know, I'm working on my drawing skills :o )?

Thanks.

guillot
01-02-2005, 08:45 PM
Hi Jon, yes you can use a "chalk" pastel under oils. Just spray lightly with a fixative before working with the oils.

Hi Lynn, are you any relation to a Christy Larson (Maiden name)? Looks like you have a wonderful start!!! Glad to see all of you joining in.

I'm going to start working on mine tonight. Had to take the girls to a movie this afternoon and just now getting back in the door.

:clap:

Tina

Lynn Larson
01-02-2005, 09:20 PM
Hi Lynn, are you any relation to a Christy Larson (Maiden name)? Looks like you have a wonderful start!!! Glad to see all of you joining in.



Tina
:D No relation...Larson is my married name, and there aren't any Christy's that I know of!

bjs0704
01-03-2005, 01:27 AM
Thanks, Tina for getting us all off to a good start! The textures and lighting in Valezquez’ paintings are just incredible!

I am going to try it as a 18” x 24”.

Richard - Thanks for the information and colors samples of weld. I always find myself wondering what some of the older pigments look like!

rwhiteley - You did a great job on the “Boating Party”! You have definitely caught the color and the overall mood!

Lynn - Wow! What a great start!

Hi Jon! You could transfer a print out (or grid the drawing). I have tended to prefer to use vine charcoal because in seems to disapear the best as I paint over it. While I have heard of artists using pastel for drawings, I always ended up with “homemade oil paint” when the pastel combined with the paint. (If you try it, make a test first!)

Barb Solomon :cat:

Squib
01-03-2005, 08:36 AM
Hi All,

I'm definitely in for the Needlewoman (hope to complete all of the MOM's this year !). I will be making a start on her by Friday, I hope. I am going with 18 x 24 as well. Seems to be a popular size for this one. Great start Lynn. Looking forward to everyone's efforts. :)

guillot
01-03-2005, 09:00 AM
rwhiteley - You did a great job on the “Boating Party”! You have definitely caught the color and the overall mood!

Yes, it is a very nice painting, definitely. :)

Hi Jon! You could transfer a print out (or grid the drawing). I have tended to prefer to use vine charcoal because in seems to disapear the best as I paint over it. While I have heard of artists using pastel for drawings, I always ended up with “homemade oil paint” when the pastel combined with the paint. (If you try it, make a test first!)

Hiya Barb!! Good to see ya. I've used pastels and charcoal, but have always fixed both (with either a light coat of spray retouch varnish, or a lightly sprayed coat of final fixative) before painting over it so that it doesn't mix with my paints. My old portraiture teacher used pastels all the time! Even sidewalk chalk!!! But if you don't use something to hold it, yes it will definitely mix with your paints.

Moosehead - good to see you joining in!!! Experience doesn't count here - we're here to learn something from these, regardless of painting levels. However, I do seem to recall that you paint very well ?? :) I think I suck, but I'm still going to give it my best shot, LOL (Supposedly we're all our own worst critics, but I'm sure there are some here that would agree that I suck too :p ) But I don't care, any avenue available to learn I've promised myself to take.

Hi Squib - I'm hoping to finish all these this year too. I don't think I'll EVER finish my Borgie, LOL Good to see you !

Tina

WV.Artistry
01-03-2005, 09:55 AM
Richard - Thanks for the information and colors samples of weld. I always find myself wondering what some of the older pigments look like!



Barb .. you in Chicago yet?

I use both Lead Pin Yellow and an equivalent to Weld. They are more like specialist tools than paints, left unused most of the time until I need the exact one to accomplish a specific thing. It comes down to handling properties and the qualities of a paint : opaque, transparent, mixer, glazing, highlight, hue, etc.

These paintings by V. were probably much "brighter" or more "colorful" to begin with. They remind me of old poloroids.

Richard

guillot
01-03-2005, 03:33 PM
Here's what I have on mine so far. I think me bit off more than me can chewwww, LOL

I'm enjoying it so far though !! Worth the effort.

Forgot to add what I'm using:

Raw umber
Yellow Ochre
Lamp Black
Lead white
Madder Lake

So far anyhoo....

Oh, and I bought these great new tools called colour shapers - using those to draw with as I go, and will use those for the highlights when the time comes.

Tina

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Jan-2005/5957-Velasquez_WS_post_1.jpg

Lynn Larson
01-03-2005, 03:56 PM
Wow Tina! The material is great :clap: I can't wait to see more.

Moosehead
01-03-2005, 07:37 PM
I think I suck, but I'm still going to give it my best shot, LOL (Supposedly we're all our own worst critics, but I'm sure there are some here that would agree that I suck too ) But I don't care, any avenue available to learn I've promised myself to take.

Wow-sorry to start a debate here Tina-but you definitley don't suck! Its looking good. I'm already learning something, and all I've done so far is stretched my canvas and applied a couple of coats of gesso. I see that both WIP's, don't have an entire dark brown ground. I was going to do that, but maybe I'll follow your route. That way, my light pastel question becomes moot. Anyway, I should get started on my painting itself in the next day or two and will post whwn I have some of it done (unless you want to see what a great job I did with the gesso) :D .

irish artist
01-03-2005, 08:31 PM
Looks Good, Tina. I'm going to attempt the "Needlewoman"--This one's too hard for this beginner, it has three faces in it-the two plainly seen and the 'shadowy'one in the background. Tina, What size canvas are you using?

guillot
01-03-2005, 08:41 PM
Thanks Lynn. Will still have to go back and add the highlights in the material - like in the white sleeve and the torn area, etc.

Aw, thanks Moosehead - you've lifted my spirits. I'm trying to move from dark to light on this one, as I would suppose that maybe that is how he worked. I should've probably covered the whole canvas with the dark brown, but seeming as the clothing and everything but the pots are all extremely dark - I'll be applying that as I go across. Looking forward to your posts, even if it is just the gesso stage :p

Hello Irish Artist. I really wanted to do this one at it's full size, but opted for the 16 x 20. I'm finding it a bit restrictive and I'm sure I might not like it too much when I get to the faces :) There's so much detail and color in the faces - or at least in the elder gentleman's face. So, I think with this one, or at least with this size, the challenge lies there.

I didn't realize my picture looked SO dark. I used raw umber in the background, and then some ochres moving across to the lighter side. Just not showing up well here.

Thanks,
Tina

Biki
01-04-2005, 02:56 AM
i have sorta kinda lost my confidence - is there anything anyone can say to give me a boost to have a go at this.? :( :crying:

dcorc
01-04-2005, 03:06 AM
Come on folks, what's all this "loss of confidence" about? Biki? Tina?

Go for it!!!!! :)

Dave

Eugene Veszely
01-04-2005, 03:47 AM
i have sorta kinda lost my confidence - is there anything anyone can say to give me a boost to have a go at this.? :( :crying:

After your great self portrait I would have thought you'd have heaps of confidence :)

guillot
01-04-2005, 07:12 AM
Come on folks, what's all this "loss of confidence" about? Biki? Tina?

Go for it!!!!! :)

Dave

I haven't lost my confidence. I don't believe I've ever stepped down from a challenge, are you kidding? :) I was kidding - :D (on the biting off a big bite) It's certainly making me "think" about where I'm putting the brush!

Biki - come on now - you promised :)

Anyone can do this - as I said it's worth the effort!!

Tina

irish artist
01-04-2005, 08:05 AM
Anyone who doesn't want to attempt three faces in one painting can do the 'Needlewoman'. It's not only one face but she's facing downward, you only have to suggest the eyes, nose. Want to try that one, Biki?

Squib
01-04-2005, 02:18 PM
Tina - if you want to see "sucks" go take a look at my Merry Drinker - now that SUCKS !

Biki - when I saw your self portrait recently, I actually GASPED ! It is SO beautiful. Anyone who can paint like that can teach me a thing or two. So get painting, and I'll follow. :)

Biki
01-04-2005, 03:20 PM
ok - thank you dears.

I will start drawing today & see how i go.
i am thinking of changing the faces & calling it "The Tavern Keeper" - and putting a splash of red in the glass. :p

Moosehead
01-04-2005, 03:31 PM
Biki,

your good enough, talented enough and gosh darn it, people like you.

This has been your daily affirmation by Stewart Smalley.

Biki
01-04-2005, 04:46 PM
he he - thanks Stewart - i mean Jon. :D

guillot
01-04-2005, 05:32 PM
Tina - if you want to see "sucks" go take a look at my Merry Drinker - now that SUCKS !



HA, Oh lord, the merry drinker. Mine didn't turn out well at all, but I learned something from it, and that's the idea behind all of these. I didn't think your's sucked! :p I never stereotype others efforts anyway - unfortunately we do have people that do that, but it's an honorable and worthy path to take, regardless of levels, to attempt painting these Master paintings.

Good Biki - even if you do put a splash of red in the wine glass :) I could use a jug of wine that big right now, come to think about it, LOL ;)

Really bad day at work! What a way to start back the new year, LOL

Off to see what else I can do with this painting. Definitely a way to relax after such a difficult day!!!

Tina

Rosic
01-04-2005, 10:44 PM
Great job putting this all together Tina!...
Your painting is coming along nicely too.

Lynn... Looking good! :clap:

I'm probably a cheerleader this month.... :(
Still resting my arm after that darn Bouguereau... :D

Bern

Moosehead
01-04-2005, 10:47 PM
Just to show I've really joined in-here are the very beginnings. Don't worry about that blotch over the robe and jug-just wiping extra paint off. It'll be covered anyway.
Dave talked me in to joining in on this forum, as a good learning experience-so whatever you end up looking at-Dave you've only yourself to blame :D .

16 x 20. So far just Burnt Umber and Ult blue ( I don't have all those "fancy" old pigments).


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Jan-2005/41799-water.jpg

guillot
01-04-2005, 10:59 PM
Excellent beginning Moosehead!!! Great job on the face emerging from the darkness in the middle there too!!!

Hiya Bern :) Never can have too many cheerleaders :D Wish you could join in with us - you can still be a cheerleader too :D . Thanks for the comments.

Tina

bjs0704
01-05-2005, 12:01 AM
Tina - You have a really great start there! Keep up the good work! The color looks pretty good so far! I love the folds in the cape!

Richard - Thanks for asking about my move! I made it to DeKalb, IL (a far, far "suburb" of Chicago). Somehow I forgot to change my "Tinyhead". I feel a little like the person who has their Christmas lights up in July.

Biki - I hope that you just keep at it! The “wine painting” would look really great!

Jon - I am glad to hear that you are hanging in there! It will be neat to see your drawing!

Irish artist - The needlewoman is a great choice! I can’t wait to see how you do!

Hi Dave and Eugene!

It is really good to see people jump in and give these painting an honest try! Some of them have really tricky details, but there is so much that can be learned by trying.

I am still working on my MOM! I hope that things work out with it - I am reusing an old 18” x 24” canvas that I have regessoed. I have gridded it with vine charcoal and I am working on the drawing.

When I grid, I usually divide my canvas into 4 x 4 sections. When I did this to my printout of the original painting, there were some interesting alignments. The corner of the old man’s eye and mouth sit on the center line. One edge of the big water jug is just a hair off of this line. The other side of the jug and the man’s hand and the edge of his hood are just off of the first quarter mark. The tip of the boys nose, the waterglass, and the knuckles of both the boy’s and the man’s hand sit on another quarter mark. In the background, the faint face of a man. The side of his head aligns on the same mark as the water glass.

I was curious, What is a good way to get that submerged look, the faded look of the fellow in the middle? Paint him and the glaze over him? I have often wanted this effect and never knew how to do it.

Barb Solomon :cat:

bjs0704
01-05-2005, 12:05 AM
Jan - I just miss your last post! You have a great start! I really like the drawing of the old man’s face! It is looking really good! Keep up the good work!

Barb Solomon :cat:

guillot
01-05-2005, 12:07 AM
Hi Barb - thanks and so proud your joining in as well :clap:

I figured if mine comes out too light - I'll glaze over him when it's dry, LOL

The other way would be to only barely lighten the same values you are using in the background just enough to barely make him visible. Jon did a great job with that!

C-ya,
Tina

artbabe21
01-05-2005, 03:05 PM
Sorry to be late..huff-puff--but I'm dancing as fast as I can! sheesh, what a month already!! Terrific starts you guys/gals! Tina you're there kiddo! wow, those folds! Jon....you're kidding us about being so green, right? You're doinf exceedingly well!

The Needlewoman is more difficult than she looks, believe me....that's the one I was going to do but this month is a travel month but will see what I can do!

Moosehead
01-05-2005, 03:57 PM
Jon....you're kidding us about being so green, right?

You should've seen me about 2 am on NewYears-I was really green then. :D

Biki
01-07-2005, 04:42 AM
Just to show you that I am not goofing off on my promises this time,
here is my tentative sketch of:
The Tavern Keeper ( after Valesquez)

I don’t know why I make things so difficult for myself, but I just gotta change things about to make them more meaningful…. Or else, what is the point?

In the tradition of the Sufi poet, Hafiz, the Tavern Keeper, is the Divine One. He intoxicates us with the wine of Love. If we get drunk enough, we will pass out, and He will carry us Home.

Please let me know if there is anything that looks out of whack.
It is not easy to make stuff up. :confused:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/23158-first-sketch---WC.jpg

irish artist
01-07-2005, 12:26 PM
Biki, The person on the left is supposed to be bending over the jugs, or lower than the main figure anyway. You have them almost even-eye-level. The smaller person is supposed to look younger also.

Aren't you joining me on the 'Needle Woman?' :crying:

Biki
01-07-2005, 03:42 PM
Biki, The person on the left is supposed to be bending over the jugs, or lower than the main figure anyway. You have them almost even-eye-level. The smaller person is supposed to look younger also.

Aren't you joining me on the 'Needle Woman?' :crying:

Sorry, Irish. This other one just grabbed my attention.

I made the recipient of the wine "of age" on purpose.
i am changing water into wine. A friend of mine did this trick a long time ago & taught me how to do it. :D

Biki
01-07-2005, 11:59 PM
SECOND SKETCH.


I know i have totally changed the composition - so can you tell me if this works as a rough comp.?

just sketching this is showing me what a difficult painting this will be. :eek:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2005/23158-second-sketch-1---WC.jpg

Rosic
01-08-2005, 12:47 AM
Biki... Is this you and your husband? I like it... works just fine!
Bern

Biki
01-08-2005, 02:36 AM
Biki... Is this you and your husband? I like it... works just fine!
Bern

no - not my husband - but my spiritual Master/teacher.

i am glad it works. i will keep tweaking it & getting it right before i start. .... which is something new for me. I usually go thru all the changes in the painting & get myself in one hellofa mess. :eek:

guillot
01-08-2005, 04:05 AM
Glad to see ya working on this Biki.

Thanks Cath.

I'm trying to work some more on mine now - in the weeeeeeeeeee hours of the morning when all is quite :) Actually, I dropped dead after I ran errands after work about 6:30, and slept to about 10:00 and I'm wide awake! So, it's 2:00 in the morning - when I should be sleeping - but can't sleep - so might as well paint!! :D

Good beginnings everyone !!!!

Tina

krispee
01-08-2005, 03:37 PM
its funny you should be studying velasquez because i did do some studies of the water seller some time back....one of my favourite 'painters painter' and one of my favourite paintings by velasquez....
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jan-2005/46276-watcarguy_wc.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jan-2005/46276-velasquez_1.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jan-2005/46276-velasquez_2.jpg

krispee

Moosehead
01-08-2005, 06:18 PM
Krispee-those are fantastic.
Here's where I'm at-blocked in. It may not be Velasquez's technique, but I like to get the canvas covered.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jan-2005/41799-water.jpg

I know my colours are a bit off-especially my water jugs, but I will adjust these as I get more detailed.

A couple of ?'s:
1-I had thought direct painting was painting in one layer, yet the description of Velasquez's technique goes on to say he probably blocked in the main lights and darks, then went to work on the details. Wouldn't this be more than one layer, or would he do details wet into wet, or do I misunderstand the term-direct painting?

2-Is the idea here to try and mimick the technique of the Masters we are copying, or to try and see if we can acheive the same result using whatever technique we think will work best? I guess we learn about technique either way. That is to say I've never done a painting anything like this, so when I'm done, I figure I'll have a better idea how to paint this type of painting regardless.

Biki
01-08-2005, 06:31 PM
Fabulous Krispee. Especially the head of the young boy. .. that is a difficult angle to capture.

Your fabric is looking good Moose.
I guess we just get out of it, what we get out of it, in copying these masters.
For me, it is trying to see if i can get the same effects with the paint.
There are many little challenges in this one.At least for me there is.
(including all those elipses !!! :eek:)
It is going to take me a long time to (try to) complete.

what? is the usual gang taking time out with this one.?
where's Dave.?

dcorc
01-08-2005, 06:41 PM
Dave's practicing the advanced Moderator art of omnipresence (and I'm working on omniprescience too) :p

:D

Dave

dcorc
01-08-2005, 07:03 PM
Biki - I think your adaptation is a very neat idea - as you say though, get all the compositional wrinkles sorted out at this stage, it saves a lot of time and effort later! Could I persuade you to match the head position of the boy, rather than the two profiles, though? What/who are you using as reference for the left-hand figure?

Krispee - terrific work there!

Jon - good start - Direct painting is going for the colours straight-off as straightforwardly, rather than the greyscale/glazes sort of approach - alla prima is a subset of direct where you endeavour to do it in one layer, "make a mark and leave it". I'd encourage people to try to approximate the original technique, as far as we reasonably can - but getting people painting, looking at and thinking about these masterworks in detail, and exploring technique in general, are all desirable educational outcomes (and hopefully fun, too !! :) )

Hoping to start mine about mid-month.

Dave

Biki
01-08-2005, 07:19 PM
Biki - I think your adaptation is a very neat idea - as you say though, get all the compositional wrinkles sorted out at this stage, it saves a lot of time and effort later! Could I persuade you to match the head position of the boy, rather than the two profiles, though?
Dave


then it would look like wine was being offered to a child. One of the reasons i wanted to change this, is that i really cannot relate to the expressions. The water seller looks bored out of his brain - and the young boy looks depressed. :(


What/who are you using as reference for the left-hand figure?

You wouldn't believe me if i told you.

ok - i'll tell you- Talullah Bankhead!!. :D
- but i want to change it to a man.
i know i have a way to go to achieve this.
i just loved the facial expressions & it tells the story i want to tell.

dcorc
01-08-2005, 07:34 PM
then it would look like wine was being offered to a child. One of the reasons i wanted to change this, is that i really cannot relate to the expressions. The water seller looks bored out of his brain - and the young boy looks depressed. :(

I meant in regard to the way the head is turned and foreshortened, rather than the height, and thus age :)

If you had to pose for hours in rags you might look bored and depressed too ! :D

You wouldn't believe me if i told you.

ok - i'll tell you- Talullah Bankhead!!. :D
- but i want to change it to a man.
i know i have a way to go to achieve this.
i just loved the facial expressions & it tells the story i want to tell.

LOL !

Go for it!

Dave

Biki
01-08-2005, 07:51 PM
[QUOTE=dcorc]I meant in regard to the way the head is turned and foreshortened, rather than the height, and thus age :)

yeah sure, make it even harder for me why donchya.!! :D :D

actually, i did play around with that head angle for a while trying to get another expression - but i need something to copy.

anyway - thanks for the comments. :wave:

Mo.
01-08-2005, 07:53 PM
Oh my!! What a challenge, I'm new to all this, would love to have a go, I'm very impressed with all the work here, intimidated almost.
So I've downloaded both pics. I won't be able start for a little while though as I have "golfer's elbow" both elbows, right one is worse than left, which is a bit of a nuisance right now (and I don't even play golf !!! :D ) as it hurts too much to paint.

Mo.

dcorc
01-08-2005, 08:03 PM
Hi Mo - as you say it's quite a challenge - but it's amazing how people really do go for it - if you have a look though last year's lot, the general standard is certainly good, and there are some quite phenomenal paintings, often from members with very little previous experience!

Dave

rwhiteley
01-08-2005, 08:16 PM
Seeing what great progress folks are making already, I finally got started. Tried to get an accurate drawing as its hard to adjust later. Used grids for most of it. 20x16, with mostly thalo blue and burnt siena, also white. cad yellow, yellow ochre.and alittle cad yellow. All acrylic, solvent fumes get carried all over the house.!! : :(
The January posts are a fun read, keeping it lively; also, for me , very instructive. Keep it up. :clap:
Heres where I am with the block in. The guy in back will be pushed down, thanks for all the hints about that. I lightened him up in photoshop and discovered hes actually holding a glass.
Richard 2

guillot
01-08-2005, 09:03 PM
Richard 2 - looking wonderful there !!!

Moosehead - I love Dave's omnipresent remarks, LOL (dave :p ) Yes, we should work as closely to technique, color and composition as possible, and Dave has answered that beautifully :) Omnipresently too .... marvelous :D

Tina

guillot
01-09-2005, 02:08 AM
krispee - I forgot to say that your work is absolutely amazing :clap: Thanks for sharing your studies. Stunning work.

Well, here's an update on my part. I've worked some more with the folds, trying to correct some features, like the direction of the folds, etc.. I still have to go back and add highlights in the white of the shirt on the waterseller himself. I've worked the man in the shadows - and the clothing on the young boy. I had to go back and draw in the placement of the hands, rings on the jug, etc. - but I'm getting there - just need to work with the faces now, apply highlights, paint the vases, and then I think I might be done.

MOM participants ROCK !!!

Keep in mind of course that this picture is taken at night, inside, with poor light and some reflections are showing up.

Tina
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Jan-2005/5957-Progress_2a.jpg

Biki
01-09-2005, 02:33 AM
Tina, you did our man in the shadows better than V himself.!!
He looks perfect.!!

Your fabric on the water seller looks great already too.

I know i will not even attempt the canvas for at least a week.!!
This is a HUGE challenge for me. - but i 'm feeling brave ( right now, at least ) :D

krispee
01-09-2005, 04:22 AM
cheers all for your comments.....and forgot to say well done to all of you and keep it up!
not an easy pic to paint that, lots of difficult elements to master.....the guy in the background is tough......

guillot and moosehead: good work

krispee

guillot
01-09-2005, 04:24 AM
Thanks Biki - it's really not about feeling brave - just simply trying to learn what you can from it. I can say, and I'm repeating myself - I've learned a tremendous amount from these studies.....

Everyone wants to say "you have to take classes".... I say "I'm getting my classes right here" :)

Your painting is coming along fine - don't fret :)

Here's another update - trying to lay in the skin tones and stuff - long ways to go there !! But a crappy pic because - well, it's nighty=nite time.

Tina

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Jan-2005/5957-Progress_3a1.jpg

guillot
01-09-2005, 04:25 AM
Hi Krispee - we cross posted - Thanks !!!

irish artist
01-09-2005, 08:44 AM
Way to go Gang!! :clap: :clap: All of you are well on your way here. I've blocked in the 'Needlewoman' and will post around the middle of the week. ASAP!! Guess I'm doing her alone. She has turned out to be harder than I first thought but the blocking in went well. Easier than Mart Cassatt's painting last month. :eek:

krispee
01-09-2005, 01:29 PM
guillot:
haha, yeah, guess so lol.....

krispee

Lynn Larson
01-09-2005, 05:13 PM
Wow! Everyone is off to an awesome start!

Here is an update on mine. I worked on her dress and fleshtones, have a start on the material, and had to scrape her face off :D

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Jan-2005/20353-nw3.jpg

guillot
01-09-2005, 06:03 PM
Irish artist - looking forward to your post !!


Lynn - awesome start! If I have time this month - I may give her a go as well.

Thanks again Krispee !!! I keep going back to look at your studies :) marvelous.

Biki, Richard2, - how's it coming along?

Barb, Dave and Mo, are you guys joining in?

Have I missed anyone? I hope not. Everyone participating has a wonderful start so far :) great stuff.

Don't know if I'll find time to get back to mine today or not. Will post another progress soon.

Thanks,
Tina

Moosehead
01-09-2005, 10:18 PM
Looking good Richard2, Lynn and Tina. Sorry if I missed anyone. Biki, any paint yet? I'm curious to see it painted with your alterations. This thread makes it more fun than I had expected.
Let's see some more!

rwhiteley
01-10-2005, 01:12 PM
Looking good Richard2, Lynn and Tina. Sorry if I missed anyone. Biki, any paint yet? I'm curious to see it painted with your alterations. This thread makes it more fun than I had expected.
Let's see some more!

thanks for comments. Did some more yesterday, worked on rest of blocking in plus some detail. Didnt do hands yet, Velasquez was wonderful with hands, they are as expressive as the faces. Need to work on the water pots, theres some very subtle coloring that I havent been able to mix. Any suggestions? :angel:
heres where I am.

Biki
01-10-2005, 03:36 PM
no moose - no paint yet. :(

that four letter word keeps getting in the way (dubbleyou oh are kay :D )

if i am really fortunate, i may be able to continue drawing later today. :rolleyes:

looking good RW. :)

rwhiteley
01-10-2005, 09:51 PM
Did some more today.

I am now renaming it "Man poisons boy with bad water while ghost looks on" :evil:
I am going to leave it a couple of days, maybe work on the other.

Mo.
01-11-2005, 07:00 PM
The paintings here are brill, I'm itching to have a go at this but have to wait a little while until my elbow improves, in the mean time I've been studying the painting with the intention of doing a prelim sketch and I'm becoming quite confused with the man in the shadows, what is the object on his face, I believe it is a drinking vessel of sorts, but the elipses don't line up, I've enhanced the pic and it looks more like a gas mask to me. :D
Can someone please tell me exactly what it's meant to be so that I have a better understanding of what is happening back there?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Jan-2005/5154-MOM_crop.jpg

thanks all.
Mo.

guillot
01-11-2005, 07:14 PM
Hi Mo,
Looks like a correction to me :) He was quite famous for making corrections to his paintings, as discussed in the discussion thread. Your lightened version looks different than mine. However - I believe his intention may have been to only give the "impression" that he is drinking from a mug. I'm sure he didn't realize, that over time - the corrections would show through, as in the collar, and maybe perhaps with this mug too :)

hi RWhitley - looking good there !!! LOL, funny.... poisoning while ghost looks on. I think the subtle coloring in the jug may have been glazed on, though I'm not sure of course - but I think that's how I will proceed with the splash of color on the big jug, forefront. then of course, the dropplets of water - very carefully applied, either wet on wet, or wet on dry. Either way I think will work. But that's just my warped thinking :)

Tina

rwhiteley
01-11-2005, 07:32 PM
Tina, Mo, I had assumed the ghost was holding a glass shaped like the one in the forefront, and that he was gripping it in a fist with his right hand. Even so its a bit distorted.
Re the jug, thanks for the hints, :) I think I will try glazing over an off white base and see how that works. As for the water droplets, I had missed them entirely. :o
Richard 2

Mo.
01-11-2005, 07:48 PM
Tina many thanks, I believe you are right in what you say, I used Paint Shop Pro 8 auto photo enhancer tool, it's a wonderful tool, everything is done in one step, one click of the mouse.
Forgot to tell you how much I'm admiring your version of this, everyone is doing so great.

Thanks to you too Richard, hope I can do as well as you !

Mo.

Biki
01-12-2005, 01:53 AM
then of course, the dropplets of water -

Tina

HA.! - i just realised that i will have to do red drops for wine.
that should be easy, :eek:

irish artist
01-12-2005, 05:29 AM
The promised 'block-in' posting--I plan to have an up-date on this later this week. Great work everyone, expescially the discussion on the 'shadow figure', it is really interesting, learning about the ways that other artists may have painted thier 'masterpieces'.

Rosic
01-12-2005, 07:58 AM
Impressive everyone!

Moosehead
01-12-2005, 10:28 AM
Some great work happening.I started to the Waterseller's face last night (The waterseller, is the older guy on the right, right?). Trying to match the fleshtones (at least in my print) is a bit challenging. A bit darker and more earthy than one often finds in caucasion flesh. Not as light and pinkish as one usually sees. The shadow area, seems darker and browner/greyer than the more "typical" caucasion flesh tones, and the lighter area seems quite close to yellow ochre.

For caucasion flesh I normally would use white, yellow ochre, cad red, and varying amounts of ult blue to darken, but in this case, for the shadow I added more blue than normal for the shadow plus burnt umber. For the light area I used quite a bit more ochre than usual, white, cad red and just a touch of ult blue.

It's close but not dead on. I still find colour mixing challenging.

soren1915
01-12-2005, 04:35 PM
Do you know the agenda for the forth coming months? I've seen the one for 2004, just curious!! might even have a go!! :)

dcorc
01-12-2005, 05:58 PM
Hi Soren - there's a full list for 2005 here: http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233364

There's most gained by just jumping in and having a go at each in turn, so you can do compare and contrast - it's better not to be too selective! We aim to run things as a very supportive environment :)

Hi to all our "usual suspects" :wave:

I'm not able to start just yet myself (I'm on Jury Service at our local Crown Court at the moment - very time-consuming.)

Dave

soren1915
01-12-2005, 06:16 PM
Cheers Dave,

I presume it can be anyone of the two??
:rolleyes:
Soren

dcorc
01-12-2005, 06:42 PM
yes, either of the two :)

Dave

Moosehead
01-13-2005, 11:21 PM
Here's an update on mine:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jan-2005/41799-water.jpg

I may not be able to finish before month's end. My parents are flying in on Saturday and then on Tuesday my wife and I leave for a week on the beach in Cuba -first vacation without the kids in 10 years :clap: :D :) :clap:

I've already reserved a barstool at the swim up bar :D :D ! Ahhhhhhh!

If you lived in Canada in January and had a 9 year old and five year old you'd appreciate just how sweet this is.

Biki
01-14-2005, 02:06 AM
Here's an update on mine:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jan-2005/41799-water.jpg

I may not be able to finish before month's end. My parents are flying in on Saturday and then on Tuesday my wife and I leave for a week on the beach in Cuba -first vacation without the kids in 10 years :clap: :D :) :clap:

I've already reserved a barstool at the swim up bar :D :D ! Ahhhhhhh!

If you lived in Canada in January and had a 9 year old and five year old you'd appreciate just how sweet this is.


oh Moose, Moose, I am sooo jealous.!!
It looks wonderful. The mans face is fabulous.
Mr shadow is a bit squishy tho. :D - but who cares. :p

I could have done something today, but instead spent the day on the net looking for an "assisted care" facility for my poor ageing Mum. :(
maybe tomorrow if i am not too depressed by it all.

Lynn Larson
01-14-2005, 08:05 AM
The face is fabulous!! Great job Moosehead

guillot
01-14-2005, 09:53 AM
:clap: :clap: :clap:

Way to go Moosehead !!! Looking wonderful !!!

Tina

DLGardner
01-14-2005, 10:08 AM
Hi all! :wave:
I'm tailgating on this one. I don't really have time to do a large copy but as I was reading his technique I became really intrigues and I absolutely love this painting The Waterseller. So I'm going to do a tiny scale rendition (8 X 10) just to try out the technique. I have my canvas saturated with brown done with a palette knife.

I don't have most of his colors, but that isn't going to stop me.

I also didn't get to finish reading everyone's posts. It was read or paint and being artists you could probably guess which one I chose.

To Tatoga! :cat:

Dianne

Moosehead
01-14-2005, 10:22 AM
Thanks all!

I'll do some fine tuning at the end-like fixing Mr.Squishyhead at the back :D .

DLGardner
01-14-2005, 10:51 AM
By the way, even in the high resolution mode, my screen only shows two figures. So that's all I'm doing. I probably need a new monitor.


As he emerges from the depths of the...paint.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jan-2005/8002-Ws2.jpg

Dianne

DLGardner
01-14-2005, 12:20 PM
Ok, that's my start. Alla prima on palette knifed background. Now I really must get going with my day. But its good to see everyone here at MOM again. You all are doing fantastic! Biki, talk with ya later after I read all the posts. Happy New Year folks! :wave:

Dianne

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jan-2005/8002-Ws4.jpg

guillot
01-14-2005, 12:31 PM
Ohh wow Diane - good going. Can't wait to see the outcome on yours as well !!!
Tina

Squib
01-14-2005, 03:10 PM
:wave: Just popping in to say you are all doing really well :clap: :clap: I am getting positively irritated because I haven't been able to get down to any serious painting so far this year :mad:...too much happening around here ! With luck, I should be starting tomorrow - I've decided against the Needlewoman, and am also going with the Waterseller - so it's great to see how everyone is approaching theirs. Well done all.

Moosehead - how lucky can you get ! :envy: :envy:

rwhiteley
01-14-2005, 03:35 PM
I did a small 10x13, guache on paper of the Needle Woman yesterday, again while gallery sitting. Its a six hour stretch of time with almost no interuptions, but no room for an easel, so I do it flat on the desk like a watercolor.
Anyway the main problem was getting any blending in the skin tones since the guache dried almost instantly on the paper.
Dave your comments about why you use alkyds really struck a chord with me. I started using them for plein air landscape a couple years ago. But switched back to acrylic as I did not want to cart solvent around. I have learned to just fight back with the fast dry, but it is a pain. Anyway when you said you used Liquin as the sole medium, a light went off in my head [DUH] :o .All you need the solvent for is brush cleaning. I have aso been using water miscible oils, which are fine but not fast drying.
heres the Needle Woman.

Well done everybody, great work :clap: :clap:
Richard2

Mary Woodul
01-14-2005, 10:09 PM
Hi! everyone. I'm new to this forum and am a guide in the Mixed Media channel, which is really my medium ever since I started painting 12 years ago. I have learned here at WC how important it is to know the basics of every techinique to be a good artist, (something I lack). I am in the 101 drawing class in the drawing and sketching channel but I want to continue painting and I am going through a block, so I was wondering if I am not to late to join this project. I feel it must be a great way to really know where you want to go in art and I see great artists here. :D

Moosehead
01-14-2005, 10:51 PM
Diane-very cool-I think you are probably following Velasquez's technique the losest of any of us. Richard 2, that is looking great!

Mary, this is my first time in this forum, but I'm sure you are not too late.
Why even some of those who run this forum (I won't name any names, but suffice to say he, or she changes avatars a lot, talked me into joining this forum, knows a lot about science and film (except AI :evil: ) and secretly has a family owned art gallery) haven't posted anything yet :evil: .

Inside joke-but join in!

Mary Woodul
01-15-2005, 09:04 AM
:D Ha,Ha, than you Jon, I'll start with mine today. :clap:

Biki
01-16-2005, 02:17 AM
I need some help:

Still fiddling with a new prelim drawing.

as i have changed the figures, i need some help on whether or not i have the light/shading ok on the faces here. Especially the guy on the left as he is mostly made up.

Dave.????? :confused:

How you all doing with your elipses ?- boy!! - there sure are many to practice in this one.!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jan-2005/23158-drawing-16-jan-WC.jpg

dcorc
01-16-2005, 04:28 AM
Hi all :wave:

Hoping to get started with mine soon (perhaps even some time in January :eek: - 2005, that is! :p )

Biki - if we look at the original again, notice that the boy is turning his face into the light (light source is very much on the left). Your young fellow on the left, with his pose, assuming you don't want to change the direction of lighting, would have to be pretty well completely in shadow.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Dec-2004/5957-velazquez-_waterseller.jpg

Dave

WV.Artistry
01-16-2005, 07:02 AM
I did a small 10x13, guache on paper of the Needle Woman yesterday, again while gallery sitting.

Richard2

Let me know how the mix of guache and Liquin turns out. I once tried baby oil and watercolor . . weird and useless, unless you want to achieve marbling.

You really did a good job of capturing the tone of this piece. I want to use "wow" but there must be a better synonym for impressive :) Do you mind sharing your palette, and approach. Also, what did you decide about that thing . . is it a stone pillow, a typewriter, an old modem from the 70's?

Salute!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jan-2005/53202-Val.jpg

Richard[the]

guillot
01-16-2005, 08:55 AM
Richard2 - GREAT!! It's marvelous work!! You should be very proud of that painting !!!!!!! Give yourself a good pat on the shoulder :)

Mary - welcome aboard - and no, it's never too late to join in :)

Hi Dave :wave:

Squib - get started girl :) I really wanted to do both this month - and I'm trying to find the time to get back to the waterseller. Still hoping I can do the needlewoman too :) Maybe I'll get to work on it some more today.

Biki - you can work on the shading as you paint. I think you're drawing is sound enough to begin with the painting :)

Moosehead - you going for the needlewoman too? Now aren't you glad you joined in? ;)

Tina

rwhiteley
01-16-2005, 09:52 AM
Let me know how the mix of guache and Liquin turns out. I once tried baby oil and watercolor . . weird and useless, unless you want to achieve marbling.

You really did a good job of capturing the tone of this piece. I want to use "wow" but there must be a better synonym for impressive :) Do you mind sharing your palette, and approach. Also, what did you decide about that thing . . is it a stone pillow, a typewriter, an old modem from the 70's?

Salute!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jan-2005/53202-Val.jpg
Richard[the]
Richard thanks for the kind words.Actually I did not use liquin with guache, I was refering to using it with alkyd. I dont think it would work.[oil and water etc]
The guache is actually acrylic based [Turner]. I traced the drawing in this case so I could get it right and focus on the color, and save time at the gallery.
The pallet was umber, naples yellow, cad red, cobalt blue, chrome green and titanium white. I found that the picture is divided into easily identified shapes. So I was able to mix a color and then flat block in all shapes with that color. Even the highlight on the hair is one shape. I had much more trouble with the skin colors, but did what I could with acrylic medium glazes over yellow/white. re stone pillow, I assumed it was velvet!! :)

irish artist
01-16-2005, 11:06 AM
I'm glad others are attempting 'Needlewoman'! After the Rough-in and the first glazes:

WV.Artistry
01-17-2005, 12:16 PM
Rough sketch in field journal.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Jan-2005/53202-Sketch_21_UL.jpg

avigayil
01-17-2005, 02:26 PM
. Also, what did you decide about that thing . . is it a stone pillow, a typewriter, an old modem from the 70's?




Eventhough the lady in the painting isn't doing bobbin lace, but some other kind of needlepoint, I do think that at last my past as a bobbinlacer comes to use!
In the old metiers like bobbin lace, needle lace, needle point etc, we use a pillow that is indeed commonly covered with velvet or more likely, plain coton. Always a fabric that won't become 'wooly' over time.
The pillow was stuffed with hard straw, to such a degree that needles would stand stiff up in it, even when pushed into it only slightly.
Nowadays, we use pillows of latex filling, but I still got some old straw-stuffed ones.
Every type of needlepoint had its own type of pillow. (pillows in photo's are bobbin lace and bobbin ribbon lace).

regards

Squib
01-17-2005, 04:53 PM
Wonderful information Avigayil, and so interesting. Thank you. I remember my grandmother always sat with a pillow on her lap when she was doing any kind of needlework - and yes ! she did make lace. NOW we know what the object is. Great !! :clap:

DLGardner
01-17-2005, 06:33 PM
Biki, I love those faces. They look so friendly! (and handsome I might add).

Richard, lovely sketch.

Here is a little more of mine. It dryed really rough as I didn't work on it for a few days. And its way too small to get much detail, especially since I ruined my little brush. I am so hard on them. But for what its worth here it be. This is just a study right?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Jan-2005/8002-Ws5.jpg

Dianne

rwhiteley
01-17-2005, 10:23 PM
Dianne .\, its great , so fresh and loose. :clap:

WV.Artistry
01-17-2005, 10:57 PM
Every type of needlepoint had its own type of pillow.


I learned a new word : bobbinlacer.

:)

Thanks Avigayil.



Richard, lovely sketch.

Dianne

Thanks. I would've spent more time with it, but it was done waiting for the tow truck (battery was dead).

I don't understand the left hand -- it looks like a crab pincer. The right hand is also slightly deformed.

Now that I've done the sketch, and studied this, it appears to me he used a dark glaze for the dress shadows and spilled it over the top half of her right hand -- caught it dripping on her left hand.

It's only my opinion, but this looks really sloppy.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Jan-2005/53202-Seamstress_Detail.jpg

Biki
01-18-2005, 02:44 AM
hey - stop complaining.! - you guys only have two hands to paint - we have THREE.!! - and are they difficult.!! - talk about foreshortening!!

this painting is going to take me 6 months to finish.

Dianne has the right idea - just suggest/just suggest.!!
nup - can't do that. I'm committed now.! :p

and Rich. your lady's hands look perfectly natural to me.
I guess you have never done any sewing. Get your sweetheart to show you what is happening there.

I dunno. Maybe it is too much to expect to copy a genius like Val. He's just too good. :(

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jan-2005/23158-WC_bottom_crop.jpg

Biki
01-18-2005, 03:05 AM
let me know if you see anything glaringly wrong.
I think i am now ready to hit the canvas. :eek: if you think all is in place & proportion?

i have made this a "passion" painting - which is a bummer in one way, but a joy in another. To try & do something like this copying a genius is maybe i bit far fetched. I should have just kept it an exercise, but have passed the starting post already now - so any help would be appreciated.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jan-2005/23158-drawing-18-jan---WC.jpg

WV.Artistry
01-18-2005, 10:09 AM
.
and Rich. your lady's hands look perfectly natural to me.
I guess you have never done any sewing. Get your sweetheart to show you what is happening there.



It's no consolation to aloneness, but per Leonardo da Vinci, a sweetheart is a bad idea for being a painter in oil. However (and I say that with a sigh), there are times I think it would be a most pleasant distraction.

:)

Re: sewing . . right! I don't even clean my brushes.

Waterhouse also has the crab-pincer woman with large feet. Monet has three-fingered models, Raphael's monstrosity, etc. It's difficult for me to paint what I don't understand. And even more difficult once I recognize something is abnormal. It makes me question the art further -- was it an accident of creation, the anomaly, or was it an intentional horror to benefit the composition. It may sound like shredding, but it's my version of greater appreciation; the analysis and scrutiny of an assassin helps me to be a better artist.

irish artist
01-18-2005, 01:23 PM
I'm painting the 'Needlewoman' and I've noticed the hands also and I think Val had a poor poise for the hands and he didn't know enough about sewing to straighten it out. On the 'crab-hand', half the hand is hidden in the folds of the fabric that's being sewn, only the top of the hand shows, the thumb and forefinger (don't know about the 'oil-drip'). On the left hand the thumb is hidden in the shadows.

In my oils class, if we have a bad poise anywhere the instructor makes us model and take numberous photos until we get a clear one. One student had to take photos of nude legs to substitute for the orginial one that was blurry. (he was painting an ice skater)

Squib
01-18-2005, 03:22 PM
You are all doing great work :clap: :clap: :clap: - Dianne, lovely.

It's difficult for me to paint what I don't understand. And even more difficult once I recognize something is abnormal.

I have the same problem Richard ! Very difficult.

I have finally been able to make a start on mine (so much for my planned schedule for January 2005 :mad: ). I completed the drawing last night, and have managed a couple of hours this evening, but have to stop now. This is where I am at present. I am hoping to get more done tomorrow - but who knows !!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jan-2005/35948-ws1.JPG

WV.Artistry
01-18-2005, 05:58 PM
Courtesy of my mom for the MOM.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jan-2005/53202-Sewer_Hands_2.jpg

The right hand in the painting is deformed, see space between index finger and middle finger, height of palm where pinky is attached, length of pinky (include what's in shadows). Attempting to recreate that right hand pose hurts . .

I think the left hand (claw pincer) has too much meat on the bottom of the hand, deforming it, or the knuckles are represented poorly. The thumb is tucked, so where there should be a crease, there is only a slight value change.

But as my grandmother would say, "Six, half dozen, or another."

Thanks for letting me bounce that off you guys . . it helped me understand it a little better. Don't understand the plum line yet on this big-headed woman, but I'll get it . . upper left arm bone looks too long.

What size canvases are you using for the needle-woman?

sbeckett
01-19-2005, 02:16 AM
Waterseller (OK a detail) 20X18

Wasn't too eager to start on this one -that lopsided composition just doesn't make sense to me. And this way I get to avoid most of that damn hyper-real jug. It is a masterly bit of work, though the Needleworker is lost on me.

My first attempt at grisaille (for detail areas). I can see the value of leaving the dimension of color for later. I'm learning to slow down in those areas, so I don't come back and see all the detail I missed. Much of the boy and his collar is redone- I was trying to do too much with bristles, I think. This type of soft brush work is unfamiliar to me -not leaving brushstrokes- but rewarding if you give it time.

Glazing to follow. Got an M. Graham Indian "yellow" (PY110) for the occasion but its really an orange and needs to be tweaked with Terre Verte or something to get those mid-yellows.
Steve

Biki
01-19-2005, 02:46 AM
Wow , Steve. This is sensational.!!!!!!!!

I think i will copy yours instead of Val's. Yours is clearer.

How did you manage those fingers.?!

The main difficulty for me is the small image i have on the screen. I cannot blow it up clear enough for these poor eyes of mine. :eek:

irish artist
01-19-2005, 07:25 AM
Courtesy of my mom for the MOM.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jan-2005/53202-Sewer_Hands_2.jpg



What size canvases are you using for the needle-woman?

Thanks for the photos, I'm going to print them out and use them. They really explain alot, poor Val, he didn't have a camera for an aid.

I'm using a simple 16x20 and I had to let the bottom part be shortened but otherwise she fits in there very nicely. I think the features of the face are alittle off the plumb-line but since she's looking down it isn't that noticeable, the main thing is to correctly render the features as they would be in that axis.

WV.Artistry
01-19-2005, 07:32 AM
Waterseller (OK a detail) 20X18
.
.
Glazing to follow. Got an M. Graham Indian "yellow" (PY110) for the occasion but its really an orange and needs to be tweaked with Terre Verte or something to get those mid-yellows.
Steve

Thanks.

rwhiteley
01-19-2005, 09:08 AM
[QUOTE=irish artist]I'm painting the 'Needlewoman' and I've noticed the hands also and I think Val had a poor poise for the hands and he didn't know enough about sewing to straighten it out. On the 'crab-hand', half the hand is hidden in the folds of the fabric that's being sewn, only the top of the hand shows, the thumb and forefinger (don't know about the 'oil-drip'). On the left hand the thumb is hidden in the shadows.

Re the fingers issue, heres my theory. The left hand is holding two pieces of cloth together while the right hand is holding the needle and stitching. Therefore I think the left hand shows the first two fingers, the others are tucked under,the thumb is hidden as it is behind them, and on top of the fabric. The right hand , thumb and index, are holding the needle, the other fingers are kind of floating , with the pinky delicately poised as if holding a tea cup ! Having said all that, which I think may explain the positions, the left hand does seem too "meaty", I think both fingers should have been more bent in order to hold the fabric and should have been painted shorter.Question: did he have the model pose in sewing position, or was she actually sewing??, this might affect the way she positioned her hands.
Richard 2

Lynn Larson
01-19-2005, 09:25 AM
I've noticed on the needlewoman that he had painted her right hand once before and covered it. I thought it was a cuff of the dress, but if you look closer, it appears he repositioned her entire arm and hand. I had to scrape her face off again :D

Squib...I love the color showing up in the robes!

Steve...incredible...that's all I can say

bjs0704
01-19-2005, 11:11 AM
I am glad that I have caught up enough with my packing to be able to start this month’s MOM. Everyone’s work is really looking great! I am glad to see so many people try their hand at a Valezequez!

Here is my outline.

Barb Solomon :cat:

bjs0704
01-19-2005, 04:01 PM
Jon - You have really done a good job on this one! Congratulations!

I love the fact that while doing the MOM’s we can try to do a “perfect copy” if we can, or we can try a modified variation of their technique, or we can just use the master work as a jumping off point for doing the piece the best way that we can. Each approach has its advantage.

The old man’s face is just fantastic!

I have found that a combination of yellow ochre and red ochre plus whatever white you choose to use are very good for “skin tones”. Darker mixtures look like suntanned skin, add white it looks like fair skin.

Biki - Your drawing looks great! I really like you adaptation! It is a really nice way to use the master paintings! Good idea!

Hang in there! This ought to be a really neat painting!

I would love to hear of any suggestion about how to learn to do ellipses! They have always been a weak point for me.

If you are still having trouble with the light and shade you may need to set either a doll or a person so that the light is coming from the same direction as it is in the painting.

krispee - What wonderful studies! The oil sketch of the old man has got him to a “T” - it’s absolutely perfect. And both drawings of the boy and old man are beautifully done! What are the drawings made in, compressed charcoal?

Richard2- Oh wow! Your painting just flew together! LOL, I love your “new title”!

I love your version of the Needlewoman! You have really caught that lovely golden glow from the original!

Tina - Your lights and shadows are wonderful, particularly on the old man’s cloak!

Lynn - You have done a really good job on the Needlewoman! Good start!

Mo - Thanks for the closeup of the man in the back! I can even imagine him drinking from some sort of tankard!

Irish Artist - Good work on the block in for “The Needlewoman”. It will be neat to see how it turns out! She is really looking great!

Diane - It is very interesting to see how you approached this! Good work! Your Velazquez has almost a “Rembrandt” quality! It looks great!

Mary - Welcome to the MOM! It’s great to hear that you are joining in!

Richard - That “stone pillow” is probably a lace making pillow. It was a type of pillow that was used for some kinds of needle work. Lace making is a type of knotting similar to macrame so a pillow is used to hold and pin the threads while the person knots and sews. A pillow could also be used to hold an embroidery while the person is working.

Your sketch of the needlewoman is very nice! You have done quite well with the lights and darks.

You are right! It does look as if Velezquez “slopped over” the lady’s hand. If her fingers and thumb are pinched together in order to hold something small (a needle), you may not be able to see much of her thumb from that angle. I think that the thumb is tucked behind the fingers (as if one is touching their thumb to their third finger).

I got a smile out of the thought of the “crab pincher woman”. It is amazing what you can find in the art books. There are thumbs on the wrong side of hands, missing fingers. . . Now, if I messed up on a hand. Sometimes, it is just part of the whole painting!

Ok, I understand your “complaint” with her fingers. What do you mean about the “plumb line”?

avigayil - Thanks for the fabulous photos of the lace making pillows! They are so interesting!

Lorraine - You’ve got a really good start! Your colors are particularly good. They are so rich and warm. Good work!

Steve - Very nicely done!

Barb Solomon :cat:

van^
01-19-2005, 04:55 PM
Wow. Lots of info in these threads. I will definitely have to have a go at this next month. Probably too late now.

Squib
01-19-2005, 05:09 PM
Van, it's not too late at all !!! Get a board out ! There is no time limit on painting a MOM. It doesn't have to be finished by the end of the month. And some people (not mentioning any names :evil: ) only get theirs started VERY late in the month - so come and join us. :)

van^
01-19-2005, 05:20 PM
Van, it's not too late at all !!! Get a board out ! There is no time limit on painting a MOM. It doesn't have to be finished by the end of the month. And some people (not mentioning any names :evil: ) only get theirs started VERY late in the month - so come and join us. :)
All right...you asked for it. :)

bjs0704
01-19-2005, 06:53 PM
Van - I hope that you get it a try!

Lorraine - Thanks Lorraine! I can’t imaginne that you might be talking about me!

I have certainly been busy getting my studio organized after moving. At least, I have an area for oil painting set up. I have also been busy writing an “Analyze This” for the Classical Forum. If you like Raphael or St. George, go on over and join us!

Barb Solomon :cat:

guillot
01-19-2005, 07:07 PM
Diane - WOW girl - love the lose version !!!

SkBeckett - That's absolutely remarkable work there!! Just EXCELLENT!! :clap: :clap:

Barb - good to see you working on it. :) Good sketch to begin with.

Biki - come now girl - paint :) and don't worry about it .

I'm forgetting everyone, LOL - But everyone is doing such a wonderful job on this.

I should be able to get back to mine now. Had to complete my 2nd painting for the Tsunami Relief Auction and have that out of my way. So - now I can concentrate on completing this one !!!

Happy Painting everyone !!!

Tina

rwhiteley
01-19-2005, 09:10 PM
Worked on waterseller tonight trying to tweek it a bit. Heres my final, I am going to leave it now.
Great to see this thread continuing to grow, so much great work and comments. :clap: :clap:

guillot
01-19-2005, 09:51 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Excellent RW!!!!

Tina

WV.Artistry
01-20-2005, 06:53 PM
Sketch on 16x20 canvas, le Blanc charcoal.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2005/53202-Sketch_22b_UL.jpg

From here, I'll glaze for an oil sketch. Probably Raw Sienna with French Yellow Ochre Light for accents. This destroys the charcoal sketch in process, embedding the residual dust in a layer of paint.

Saw a Velasquez book last night, good prints, but unfortunately it didn't have this painting in it. Apparently, most of his paintings in "this style" were painted very thin . . canvas thread showing.

The detail shots reveal a heavy reliance on glazing and dry-brushing (it looks very sloppy and painted fast). Shadow areas in white cloth for example, contain what looks to be all the other pigments in the composition . . . so, at first guess, he painted a white first, then as he worked on other areas, wiped the brush residue in the shadows. Don't know his procedure for dumping his palette, but I usually do it at the end of a session, then touch up up with a highlight.

Anybody got an x-ray of one of his paintings?

He was apparently fond of using Michelangelo's thing in these types of paintings . .

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2005/53202-Michelangelo_Nude_Woman_on_her_Knees_detail.jpg

Richard[the]

Biki
01-20-2005, 09:59 PM
I read this on Cowdisley, by Virgil Elliot.

Some of Velazquez' great paintings were done with a very simple limited
palette, consisting of lead white, yellow ochre or raw sienna, an earth red
(perhaps red ochre), and a black, probably ivory or bone black. This would
include
his portrait of Juan De Pareja, and The Water Seller of Seville. This is the
first color palette I assign to my students, after they have developed a good
grasp of oil painting in greys made from black and white.

irish artist
01-21-2005, 02:21 PM
Rich, What's Le Blanc Charcoal? An Oily Pastel-like charcoal? I don't see how regular charcoal will stick to the canvas. :D

WV.Artistry
01-21-2005, 08:03 PM
Rich, What's Le Blanc Charcoal? An Oily Pastel-like charcoal? I don't see how regular charcoal will stick to the canvas. :D

I need the sketch to not stick to the canvas . . I destroy it.

Le Blanc charcoal (the block) comes in about 6x3 inch blocks. I break the block into three parts, rub off the hard edges on the sidewalk for a palm-sized chunk a little bit smaller than a barb-b-que grill coal.

It's a very very fine dust, and if I accidently rub the canvas against my pant leg in transport, most of it rubs off. Oy!

After trying a gazillion things, le Blanc charcoal, and French dirt (clay), work as a material for sketching pre-painting. Other things I've tried bleed, don't come off, or affect the end-result finish (too porus).

The majority of dust lifts off with a glaze or turp wash.

There's a couple of ways of replacing the sketch . . the other ways are more time consuming though.

I replace the charcoal sketch with broom-like strokes in that first layer of paint (equivalent of a meticulous turp wash). The heavier particles are embedded in the canvas thread and whatever dust is left gets embedded in paint. There's only a miniscule amount left embedded . . . I swish the brush, wipe it on a rag, repeat.

w/i/p : (removing / replace charcoal sketch with oil sketch)

Yellow Ochre, French Ochre Light, Lead White, Turkey Umber

Turpentine

Biki
01-21-2005, 08:20 PM
Rich, I love your way of going about things - especially the results.
I would love to watch. :)

It's around midday here. I have paint on canvas & battling thru.
I would like my legs & feet to not get tired so i don't have to stop.

I wish i knew what i was doing.
One day I will find a process that works for me, and stick to it. :rolleyes:

guillot
01-21-2005, 09:52 PM
I need the sketch to not stick to the canvas . . I destroy it.

It's a very very fine dust, and if I accidently rub the canvas against my pant leg in transport, most of it rubs off. Oy!
The majority of dust lifts off with a glaze or turp wash.

There's a couple of ways of replacing the sketch . . the other ways are more time consuming though.

I replace the charcoal sketch with broom-like strokes in that first layer of paint (equivalent of a meticulous turp wash). The heavier particles are embedded in the canvas thread and whatever dust is left gets embedded in paint. There's only a miniscule amount left embedded . . . I swish the brush, wipe it on a rag, repeat.

w/i/p : (removing / replace charcoal sketch with oil sketch) Tina's comment..... (WHY?)

Yellow Ochre, French Ochre Light, Lead White, Turkey Umber

Turpentine

I don't really know what you mean by all of this Richard, but all you have to do is "fix" your drawing, whether "charcoal, dust, pastel, sidewalk chalk, or Whatever" with a bit of spray final fixative (light coat is enough to hold your drawing), or a spray of retouch varnish. Nothing comes off - nothing bleeds -no ghosts, etc. And, it is a sound painting practice - no worries. Just do not use a THICK spray coat of final fixative (for drawing - spray lightly, use your finger to wipe across drawing in a small spot - if it doesn't smudge - well you're good to go), and you'll be okeedokie.

Irish - regular charcoal will - if you follow the above advice :)

Biki - read the prior discussion thread on velazquez - this is all covered there.

Richard - yes there are some talk of Xrays- - look at page one of this thread and follow some of the links - and you can see that the collar in "The Waterseller" was corrected (as is described on page one). Over time - it became transparent. He was a direct painter and didn't fuss about too much with glazes and such (only when necessary to correct a passage, as can be seen with the collar - and only deemed a "glaze" because of the amount of medium he used - and he also scumbled over things as well) - he was a Baroque painter :) !! And one of the absolute best Baroque painters of all time.

Tina

Biki
01-22-2005, 01:13 AM
All day painting, and an enormous amount of tweeking - with many, many tweeks to go. :p

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jan-2005/23158-22-jan-5---WC.jpg

WV.Artistry
01-22-2005, 01:24 AM
w/i/p : oil sketch

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jan-2005/53202-Oil_Sketch_1.jpg



he was a Baroque painter :) !! And one of the absolute best Baroque painters of all time.

Tina
Being unemployed, I'm baroque a lot too . .

Biki
01-22-2005, 01:39 AM
w/i/p : oil sketch

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jan-2005/53202-Oil_Sketch_1.jpg




Being unemployed, I'm baroque a lot too . .

:D :D :D

not for long. ... wait a while until you are "discovered".

looking marvellous, Rich. You make me jealous. :p

Squib
01-22-2005, 11:38 AM
:clap: :clap: :clap: All of you are coming along so well. Steve - just had a good look at yours - it's absolutely wonderful.

I am ready to THROW my Waterseller, easel and pallette out of the window - and follow them !!!! :mad: :mad: I have wiped off his blessed face four times. I have been screaming at him for the last 10 minutes. No man has ever frustrated me as much ! The family are all laughing at me. How annoying not to be able to get the face right. I just can't get his skin to wrinkle properly - and my colours - awful. Help needed here guys.

guillot
01-22-2005, 01:31 PM
LOL Richard. Well she's coming along beautifully !!!

Lorraine, it's OK. Don't throw him out yet. A lot of times the trouble I have is that I tend to think of what it is I'm painting (i.e. nose, mouth, etc.) instead of thinking about the shapes, colors and values. So try to not think of it as a wrinkle, but a series of different shapes and values.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jan-2005/5957-wrinkle_analysis.jpg

Don't know how well that picture is going to come out, but as you can see in this small crop from above the eyebrow area, (and slightly blurred) the different values that make up the wrinkles. Darkest value - surrounded by a lighter value, and a few highlights here and there. A middle value, a lighter value, the darkest value, a lighter value, and some highlights here and there. I don't know if any of that makes any sense, but I think the crop pretty much says it all.

Tina

WV.Artistry
01-22-2005, 02:42 PM
. . . different shapes and values.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jan-2005/5957-wrinkle_analysis.jpg

Tina

Wierd. What a strange and interesting cross-hatching. Up close like this, it resembles a cloth pattern, or ripples.

Hey, is it true John Singer Sargent is a decendant of Velazques?

Biki
01-22-2005, 06:42 PM
don't you all think that the Water Seller is a BIG task of a painting.!?
( except of curse for Steve who is too cool for school :p )

There is so much in it to get right. How is everyone else going with it.?

and where's Dave.?!!

dcorc
01-22-2005, 07:12 PM
How annoying not to be able to get the face right. I just can't get his skin to wrinkle properly - and my colours - awful. Help needed here guys.

For the wrinkles, the solutions obvious - for how to handle the wrinkles you need to look no further than the Master of Hounds himself - that's what this painting reminded me of!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jan-2005/30792-doggyvelazquez2.jpg

(Apologies to Dave D, for having a little fun with one of his beautifully painted bassets!!)

Dave

dcorc
01-22-2005, 07:28 PM
Great going, everyone - Steve's is particularly impressive :clap:

I'm just about to start mine now - I'm doing a quick palette-clean, and then I'll be doing a somewhat reduced-size version of the waterseller at around 16x20ins on board.

Dave

guillot
01-22-2005, 07:55 PM
Wierd. What a strange and interesting cross-hatching. Up close like this, it resembles a cloth pattern, or ripples.

Hey, is it true John Singer Sargent is a decendant of Velazques?

Hey Richard - I know, I noticed that too. It's not apparent to the eye, in the picture at all, or at least not to my eye :) I don't think it's an anomoly from Photoshop Pro8, but when I cropped the section and enlarged it a bit - that's what came up, LOL

I don't know if Sargent was a descendant of Velasquez or not, but that would be interesting to find out !!

Lorraine - did that help you any? :)

Get that palette clean Dave! Get busy :D Like I need to be saying that, huh? Maybe to myself .. :p

Tina

Mo.
01-22-2005, 08:05 PM
I so wanted to join in on this month's project, especially after seeing everyone's work and dedication here, I seriously don't think I'll have the time to complete one now, although I'm willing to have a try, does it matter if not completed within the said month?
Have to be honest I'm looking forward to next months, Turner is one of my all time favourites, it will be a challenge indeed to paint in his unique style.

Mo.

dcorc
01-22-2005, 08:10 PM
Hi Mo - well I'm just about to start one now - you don't have to complete within the month - it is better to make a start with others, if possible, as we can then all discuss practicalities together. :)

Get that palette clean Dave! Get busy Like I need to be saying that, huh? Maybe to myself ..

:D - it's cleaned, just picking my colours here - one for the alkyds and softer (synthetic) brushes, esp. as I'm doing it smaller.

Dave

soren1915
01-23-2005, 01:58 AM
Hi Mo - well I'm just about to start one now - you don't have to complete within the month - it is better to make a start with others, if possible, as we can then all discuss practicalities together. :)



:D - it's cleaned, just picking my colours here - one for the alkyds and softer (synthetic) brushes, esp. as I'm doing it smaller.

Dave


you are very brave starting so late Dave! may the force be with you!!

Soren

Squib
01-23-2005, 04:11 AM
Tina - thanks so much. It does help, and I will try again today - later this afternoon. Yes, Dave, why didn't I think of that ! Of course. A wrinkle is a wrinkle, right ? (and I should know :mad: ). :wink2: I think I need to switch to smaller brushes. The canvas is only 24 x 20, so, once again, I am working on a face that is less than 4ins long - not good. I had a good read in the Miniature Forum last night, to see how they painted so small yet so detailed.

Back into the fray !

JKM
01-23-2005, 09:25 AM
Hi everyone. I don't think I'm quite ready to participate in this thread yet but I just wanted to let everyone who has posted there work so far know that I think you are doing a great job. There is some brilliant pieces of work here. Well Done. :clap:

Squib
01-23-2005, 11:24 AM
Hi All,

James, nice to see you here. I didn't think I was ready for this either (still don't think I am !)

Looking forward to seeing your starts Dave & Mo.

Tricia, how's your coming along ? It looks so romantic !

Richard - lovely oil sketch. I'm sorry now that I didn't do her.

Van, Mary, Lynn, Irish, Barb & Jon - any progress ?

Richard II - wow on your Needlewoman - excellent ! :clap:

Hope I haven't left anyone out. :)

I am REALLY battling with this one. I don't think the Boogie seemed this difficult. I'm uploading today's effort as I have to stop for a while - duty calls. I may get a chance to get back to it later tonight. Hope so. Made a start on his face - again. Also scumbled here and there. I had too much burnt sienna and not enough yellow ochre in his robe, so am trying to fix that. I plan to work on his face more; started on the jug, vessel, whatever - I will be knocking back that guy in the middle. I lightened up my jpeg considerably to identify his features, so he is a bit too prominent at the moment.

Back later :wave:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Jan-2005/35948-ws2.JPG

guillot
01-23-2005, 11:31 AM
Hi James - would love having you join in with us on the fun !!

Lorraine !! That's wonderful :) It's coming along beautifully - you hang in there :angel:

I'm hoping to get time to get back to mine today - would love to finish it - but don't see that happening all today anyway. I have to wrap up one painting that sold for the Tsunami project and get that ready to ship off tomorrow and some other things - like I really need to clean my studio - but why if I'm going to paint?

Tina

irish artist
01-23-2005, 01:46 PM
Colors are alittle off on her face but its correctable, entering the final week of working on this in good shape-ready for Turner.

dcorc
01-23-2005, 07:07 PM
Hi all - I'll just post this first (the less said about it the better, so far :p - I've just scrubbed in a quick sketch in burnt sienna, and gone straight into paint, just winging it on this one, at a rough block-in stage here, I'll adjust it as I go - PentimentiR'Us :D ) and then grab a coffee and catch up with the thread properly!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Jan-2005/30792-dcvel1.jpg

Dave

dcorc
01-23-2005, 10:50 PM
Just picking up from about page 8 -

Richard (GQ) - I think that perhaps the needlewoman's little finger is raised, and straight rather like victorian ladies holding a teacup (as I see Richard W has also suggested), and thus foreshortened.

I think it's also likely that we are seeing numerous pentimenti in both paintings - where corrections/adjustments are showing through due to increasing transparency of the paint with age.

The impression I've got from Velazquez paintings I've seen in reality is that they're predominantly painted with fairly fluid paint - often areas which appear photographic at the appropriate viewing distance turn out to be surprisingly broadly painted (like Hals or Sargent)

A classic example is the astonishing dazzling decoration on the costume of Philip IV, which I've seen in the National Gallery, here in London - which is broadly painted in single brushstrokes of varying values of grey paint, when inspected closely

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Jan-2005/30792-philipIV.jpg

(we should have had this for the January painting! :evil: )

looking forward to further development of your Needlewoman!

Barb - good to see you making a start there!

Richard (W) - very nice rendition there - when you've finished I think its always a good exercise to try to take stock of what one's gained in technique, or in insight on the challenges of the original.

Biki - I also saw Virgil's comment on Cowdisley about the simple earth colours palette - more or less what I decided to go for.

A terrific underpainting sketch you've got there - and a splendid adaptation - well done to have carried this off so well, as this adds another layer of complication!

Lorraine - nil desperandum! It's coming along fine - while Velazquez was a direct painter, I'm sure he did some layering and adjustments - the pentimenti show that

JKM - James, great to see you here - if you can hold a paintbrush in your hand you're ready for these :p - copying is a traditional learning technique, and there's a great deal that can be learned from them at any stage of one's development as a painter - we can give lots of support here - The Mods and Guides here spent a lot of time selecting a good set of paintings that we can use to provide a crash-course in painting over the year - people gain most if they can do several as then they can compare and contrast techniques (I do these paintings on gessoed hardboard, as it's very inexpensive).

Irish artist - Diann - coming along great, here

Tina - manage to get back to yours yet?

I know we have some others involved from earlier, too - forgive me anyone, if I haven't mentioned you!

Looking forward to seeing everyone's progress!

Dave

Biki
01-24-2005, 02:18 AM
Thanks for the encouragement Dave.
You are always there to help move us along.
We'd be lost without you. ( well, at least i would :eek: ) :wave:

JKM
01-24-2005, 04:06 AM
Thanks for the encouragement Lorraine, Tina, Squib and Dave. Who knows I might pluck up enough courage for next months MOM. :)


Painting is looking good Dave! :clap:

WV.Artistry
01-24-2005, 07:45 AM
Another attempt to re-create the scene. Sorry I'm not a very good photographer. Pulled the sleeve back so I could see where the wrist is.

Paid model.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Jan-2005/53202-Hands_Photo_2.jpg

Squib
01-24-2005, 03:14 PM
Lorraine - nil desperandum!

Dave, I get so frustrated sometimes - parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus ! But...diligentia maximum etiam mediocris ingeni subsidium...so I press on.

WV.Artistry
01-24-2005, 04:11 PM
. . numerous pentimenti in both paintings - where corrections/adjustments are showing through due to increasing transparency of the paint with age.
.
.
The impression I've got from Velazquez paintings I've seen in reality is that they're predominantly painted with fairly fluid paint - often areas which appear photographic at the appropriate viewing distance turn out to be surprisingly broadly painted (like Hals or Sargent)
.
.
Looking forward to seeing everyone's progress!

Dave

Yah! Whatever Lorraine said.

I just don't understand some stuff . . and getting tired of noodling trying to make it right Got a February 5th deadline for an exhibit I haven't even started working on yet. So I'll finish up tonight, regardless. And post tomorrow.

Squib
01-24-2005, 05:13 PM
Hi All,

Richard, I understand completely when you say you "get so tired of noodling to make it right". After another outburst of frustration this evening, my daughter commented "But you are NOT Velasquez, so why would you expect to paint as he does ?" She's right, of course. I am definitly NOT Velasquez - so there is hope. I will paint like me.

Well - had another 2 hours on this. Its 22.05 and I've just put my brushes away for the night.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Jan-2005/35948-ws3.JPG

I have started work on the boy's face, also toned down the fellow in the back, and working on the lost edges here and there. On looking at this in the monitor (which is a great help), I can see a lot of areas in the man's face that need to be darkened. I think I still have a long way to go, Excuse the bad photos. I will try to get a good one, but the painting is never dry - and probably won't be till its finished.

Edit: So sorry, I forgot to comment on your updates ! :eek: Everyone is doing extremely well. :clap: :clap: Does anyone else think this is a difficult piece to copy ?

dcorc
01-24-2005, 07:19 PM
Dave, I get so frustrated sometimes - parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus ! But...diligentia maximum etiam mediocris ingeni subsidium...so I press on.

Difficile est tenere quae acceperis nisi exerceas

:)


Dave

Biki
01-25-2005, 12:16 AM
Does anyone else think this is a difficult piece to copy ?

yes :confused:

you doin' just fine from where i sit Raine. :)

DLGardner
01-25-2005, 12:45 AM
I think I gave up folks. Every one is doing so good! But honestly, I can't see anybody in the background of the Waterseller, and some of the detail that you are capturing...well, maybe its my poor eyes. I should have done the sewing lady.

ahyeeee. :rolleyes:

Dianne

Biki
01-25-2005, 01:29 AM
Dianne.!! I thought yours was wonderful already.!!
YOur own painterly style.

i'm not doing Mr Shadow either. Apart from the fact that he doesn't go with my theme, I think he looks silly. :p :D

Anyway - here is an update after another 5 hours approx.

I know i haven't done with the shadows yet, but willl hone in on them tomorrow, just roughly & then i am finished with the underpainting.

I know my elipses are still off - but hopefully i will do better in the next layer.

I am really enjoying the challenge of this & am forcing myself not to hurry.

Raine - because there is so much detail to get right - i have been clipping the images in sections & printing them out so they are the same size as i am painting them.

This might help you with the face. If it is the same size, it is easier to see the shapes that make up the detail. My main reason to do this was for the hands.
They are so vague in the painting - it really comes down to copying the shapes of light & shadow.... and even then it is difficult.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Jan-2005/23158-25-jan-1---WC.jpg

Biki
01-25-2005, 01:58 AM
BTW - Tina. If this is a pic of you in your new avatar it is rather stunning.!!

dcorc
01-25-2005, 06:07 AM
hi Dianne - are you working on a Mac or a PC? the monitor gamma is different between them (I think the Mac might be darker, but I'm not certain, offhand) - might explain your inability to see the middle figure?

Raine - yes, I think this is a fairly tricky one - like Richard, I've ended up noodling - while its directly painted, I don't think it's alla prima, but rather adjustments scrubbed on, with some delineation in fluid paint - at least that's what I'm finding I'm doing to try to get something like the look.

Biki - take your time, that's coming along magnificently!

Dave

DLGardner
01-25-2005, 09:50 AM
Dave, I'm on a PC. I have an old Monitor. I have no idea how old it is. I think it was built in the stoneage if that's any indication, you know, before computers came out...Almost everything I upload comes out too dark and I have to brighten it in photoshop before I upload it. It would be interesting to have a monitor testing thread that we could go to and check out each other's monitors to get an idea how to upload images so there is a standard we could go by.

Just a wild crazy thought.

Dianne

guillot
01-25-2005, 12:07 PM
PentimentiR'Us
Dave

LOL !! I swear you crack me up Dave :) Your painting is coming along quickly!! Looking good too. Youngest is home sick today - so I get to play hooky today from work. :evil: Well, it's really not "hooky" is it, seeming as I have to be here to take care of the sweetheart.

Biki - good job on your painting!! Coming along rather nicely, and I like the comp. Yep - that's me in the avatar. Was playing around with the dig. camera last night trying to post pics in the "Bless the Mods" thread per Bills request and thought I might as well update it. Stunning? I think I looked quite mad or something, :D I take AWFUL pictures, and your husband is probably right - something always wrong with the mirrors in my house. :)

Lorraine - coming along nicely there. Wouldn't it be nice if we could paint like Velasquez !! But alas, tis not happening in my studio, that's for sure.

Richard - like the model of the hand!! That would make a nice painting on its own. :)

JKM - I hope you do join us next month. Wish you would this month - but wow it's really flying by too quick. Where does the time go? Dave is hosting next month's Turner :) :clap: I believe it's going to be loads of fun !

Who am I forgetting? - I swear if I've missed anyone, which I'm sure I have, it's unintentional and I can only blame it on stress and old age ;)

Everyone's paintings are just marvelous !

Tina

Mo.
01-25-2005, 12:21 PM
Having been so encouraged by all the work here, I at last decided to have a go over the weekend, this is the first stage, I sketched the outlines with a sanguine pastel pencil and thinly painted in my first layer.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Jan-2005/5154-vel_WIP_1.jpg

This is stage two and three, I'm now winging my way into the finer details, I can see I've lost a bit of my original sketch, and I've lost the left line of the boys face, these will be worked back with a fine brush.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Jan-2005/5154-Vel_WIP__01.jpg

It's quite a small size only 12 x16 inches on a cheapo canvas from a pad.
Colours used so far have been very limited.

Yellow ochre; cad orange; raw umber; paynes grey; cad yellow; titanium white and oxide of chromium.

I enhanced the photo using Paint shop Pro using the auto enhance button, think I'll continue painting to the enhanced version, the colours are much better and maybe it's how the original would have looked ?

Have to cook dinner now, one of the many joys we women artists have to cope with :wink2: , hope to do some more tomorrow.
Sorry about the flash reflection.

Mo.

WV.Artistry
01-25-2005, 12:58 PM
Richard - like the model of the hand!! That would make a nice painting on its own. :)

Tina

re: Hands. I was painting downtown in the gallery, and in walked Sandra Bernhardt ;) Asked her if she'd model for me. I'll be painting more than her hands over the next two weeks -- might need some help "naming" the piece.

Here's my Velasquez study. Did the best I could with it. Although I think it's pretty much a failure, I did learn some stuff.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Jan-2005/53202-Needle_Woman_UL.jpg

guillot
01-25-2005, 01:04 PM
Hey Mo !! Great going!! Now aren't you glad you're working on it? Great work.

Richard - Sandra Bernhardt huh? Lucky you :) Let me know when you start the paintings, I would like to see them. Your painting looks awesome !! Congrats.

Tina

PS - I'm beginning to think something is wrong with the quality of the uploader. Like last night when I was trying to upload one of my pictures and it looked like someone had smooshed my face all around, LOL. Is everyone else seeing the fuzziness, kind of "blooms" in these latest uploaded pics? Or is it just me?

Thanky

irish artist
01-25-2005, 02:12 PM
I think I gave up folks. I should have done the sewing lady.

ahyeeee. :rolleyes:

Dianne

If you had tried the 'Needlewoman' you would have been stuck with Rich and I, what looks easy isn't neccessarily so. The angle of the face and the lack of a good pose made her hard. I'm trying to figure out why there are no collarbones in the portrait. And the hands.............'nuf said.

Lynn Larson
01-25-2005, 02:44 PM
If you had tried the 'Needlewoman' you would have been stuck with Rich and I, what looks easy isn't neccessarily so. The angle of the face and the lack of a good pose made her hard. I'm trying to figure out why there are no collarbones in the portrait. And the hands.............'nuf said.
The reason she has no collar bones is because the dress squished her bosoms up that high :D

I need to work on her face tonight and I will post an update. Right now, mine looks like Tammy Fay Baker :(

Squib
01-25-2005, 02:50 PM
Difficile est tenere quae acceperis nisi exerceas

:) Dave

Yes - you are quite right Dave. LOL - you reminded me of a long time ago, reading Pliny with my father !!! UUURRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!

Thanks for your kind comments folks.

Dianne - I think you did a wonderful job on yours. Yes, I had first thought I would go with the Needlewoman, but the Waterseller looked more interesting. I'm now determined to do both (maybe by Christmas :evil: ).

Tricia - yours is georgeous - the way they are looking at each other !!!

Dave - looking good.

Mo - great start.

Richard - your study is good - why do think it's a failure ? Nice photo of the hand. On studying both of this month's paintings, I think he paints hands in a most peculiar way.

Tina - I've had no problems with the uploader.

Back later :clap:

guillot
01-25-2005, 03:36 PM
Right now, mine looks like Tammy Fay Baker :(

:D I'm sure you've heard the saying that we are all our own worst critics. Hang in there !!

Lorraine - not with the uploader, but with the quality of the picture that it is posting. I see smooshes and fuizziness in Richards and Mo's pictures and that's what was going on with me last night :) :confused: Don't know. Just wondering if it appears that way to anyone else.

Thanks,
Tina

Squib
01-25-2005, 03:46 PM
Oh sorry Tina - I misunderstood. No, I don't see any problem with any of the images. :)

Squib
01-25-2005, 06:14 PM
Dave, I have been led to believe that the Waterseller (the original) is at the Wellington (Apsley House), Hyde Park Corner. Do you know if this is still true ? If so, I may make a trip through to see it. Actually, I will ring them in the morning and find out.

guillot
01-25-2005, 06:48 PM
OK update for me, been working on the old mans face, I believe all afternoon, and a little on the boys. Hoping to continue painting until dinner.

Still so much to DO !! :eek: I hope my picture doesn't look all squishy, you guys let me know if it does.

Thanks,
Tina

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Jan-2005/5957-Velazquez2a.jpg

guillot
01-25-2005, 10:48 PM
A-HA. I found the culprit. I had my aol setting on "always compress web graphics". Now everything doesn't look all squishy. I thought I was going blind or something, LOL

:wave:

Tina

bjs0704
01-25-2005, 11:29 PM
Biki - The interaction between the figures is excellent! This is going to be a wonderful painting!

Your initial drawing and grisaille is excellent! :cool: :cool:

The waterseller isn’t the easiest painting to copy! It is definitely a challenge. I suppose if it were really easy everyone would be doing Velazquez’s!

Richard - The needlewoman looks really good! You have caught Velazquez’ lighting and warm mood. I love the nostalgic sense of your painting!
:clap: :clap: :clap:

The photo of the hand is really interesting! It would make a great study! (I was thinking the the needlewoman’s thumb would be touching her third finger. I am not sure how much that would change things.)

Lorraine - I hope that you can stay patient - your painting looked so lovely!
:cool: :cool:

I have to admit working on the “Waterseller” is only adding to my respect for Valezquez!

And yes, this is NOT the easiest of pieces to copy!

Dave - You are too funny! I love the Basset headed waterseller!

Your painting looks great! (What colors are you using for the pitchers?)
:cool: :cool: :cool:

Tina - I remember reading about later painters, using hatching marks, similar to the ones used by pen and ink artists in their paintings. Is this what Velazquez is doing for his figures?

I do know that the loose brushwork used by Sargent is an exaggeration of a style that was admired in Titian, Rubens, Velazquez ect.

Mo - Your painting is looking so good! You are doing a great job!

James - Welcome to the MOM’s! :wave:

It is great to have you watching our progress!

I suppose that if someone didn’t feel up to doing a whole Velezquez they could try just block in a smaller version or a cropped version to get things to a level that they can reasonably accomplish.

Irish Artist - Very well done! I like the mood set by your colors! :clap:

Barb Solomon :cat:

Biki
01-26-2005, 03:36 AM
Barb, you are such a sweetheart.
You would have to be the most beautiful soul on WC.
sorry - don't mean to make you blush - but hey - you deserve to know.

ok - i worked on the faces today. Mainly the "Tavern Keeper", but also the recipient of the Wine (of Love).

and guess who we have here .... da da :music:

OMG ... is it UMA THURMAN. !!! ( absolutely by mistake tho)
:D :D :D

i am wanting this (recipient) figure to be ambiguous - .... could be anyone & everyone - male or female. Let's see what happens tho.

Actually Uma has one of the BEST faces EVER, in my opinion.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jan-2005/23158-26-jan---WC.jpg

JKM
01-26-2005, 07:25 AM
Grand Quintile- Through my eyes atleast it's looking great. Certainly not a failure anyway. Well Done. :clap:

Mo - painting is looking great! :clap:

Barb - Thanks. I've just promised myself that I will try and participate next month :eek: . So I am looking forward to it. ;)

bjs0704
01-26-2005, 12:01 PM
Biki - I am wondering, on your recepient, I see one corner of his eye (that little bit of brow bone on the far corner). If I see that bone, then he is at a three-quarters view. But, the lower part of his face, from the nose to the chin is in profile. Check and see, if I have it right (drawing people is my strongest point). You may be able to take a photo of someone to use to get this face a little better.

I like his face. It gives that feeling that I have walked into this magical idealized world.

James - That will be great to see next month!

Alright, here’s where I am right now! I am still blocking it in! I have to admit, I do feel like I am a bit over my head as far as what I am trying to do.

Barb Solomon:cat:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jan-2005/11410-Waterseller2.jpg

Squib
01-26-2005, 02:30 PM
Barb & Tricia - looking good !

James - great you will be joining us next month.

I had a few hours free at lunchtime today, and I was in Oxford, so I dropped in to the Ashmolean again, to see the Baroque Art on display. (Last time I went I didn’t take a camera). I had a wonderful time, and I’d highly recommend it to any of you who can get to Oxford. There is so much to tell, I could spend hours describing each painting ! Not enough time, so I will just give my general impressions.

Here are just four of the many wonderful paintings on display. Sorry the photos are not brilliant, but I was not allowed to use my flash, and the lighting is not great for photography.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jan-2005/35948-cara.JPG
Still Life & Young Man holding a Recorder - Caravaggio.

At a rough guess it’s about 3’ x 2’ (I didn’t have a tape measure). This is a marvelous work – so well preserved - no sign of cracking or damage in any way. The colours are deep and rich; no brushstrokes visible – really well blended.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jan-2005/35948-holyfamily.JPG
The Holy Family with Infant St. John the Baptist – Bartolommeo Schedoni (1578-1615)

This painting is only about 8” x 8” (maybe less). It is exquisite, and I was so drawn to it. (And I complain when painting faces 4”high !) I wish you could see the light falling on the infant’s blonde curls. Their tiny bodies are so well painted – I wanted to reach out and pinch the little fat legs. I went back to this painting 3 times, just to stand and stare.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jan-2005/35948-hercules.JPG

The Choice of Hercules - Paolo de Matteis (1662 – 1728)

This painting is magnificent ! It must be about 8 feet wide (maybe more.)I had to include the frame – because that, too, is magnificent. It is a George II frame, and one of the most lavish of all English rococo frames to survive. The painting was placed in it around 1750.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jan-2005/35948-draughts.JPG
The Game of Draughts – Mattia Preti (1613 – 1699)

Preti was studying under Caravaggio when he painted this. It’s about 5’ wide. This caught my attention immediately, and it shines across the large room. The contrast between dark and light is outstanding (I wish you could see it IRL).

In all the paintings, a few things stood out
(1) The colours are deep, dark and so rich
(2) The Masters were just that – Masters
(3) The blending – perfect
(4) Smooth transitions – just beautiful
(5) Their drawing skills were fantastic. The years of study of the anatomy definitely paid off in these paintings (a lesson for me)
(6) None of the paintings were painted in a photorealistic style (as we know it), and yet they ARE so real. (Can’t explain it properly)

And the most amazing thing of all is that they have survived, and are STILL HERE for us to enjoy – 400 years after they were painted !

guillot
01-26-2005, 06:12 PM
Hi Barb !! Your painting is coming along quite nicely. I guess it's possible that Velazquez used cross hatching in his paintings, I don't know, but seems some of it is visible above his eyebrow for sure.

Biki - Looking great there !! Awaiting the outcome of yours - will be fun.

Lorraine - thanks for sharing all of that information! Very informative.

I've worked the hands a little, still have to finish the boys face, the old man's lip (looks like he's biting his lip), and I'm going to go back over it with a velatura or a light glaze to increase the shadows on his face. But anyway, here's an update:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jan-2005/5957-Velazquez_hands2.jpg

Biki
01-26-2005, 08:53 PM
Tina, you have your shapes in beautifully, and i love what you have done with
the big guy so far.

i expect the boy will be more difficult, as that is an odd angle of his head.

'sok for me, i am not doing him. :p

Barb's is looking good also. Thanks for pointing out the error. I may have found it myself eventually, but you have saved me some time. :)

i am working furiously today, so i have a whole day off tomorrow to continue. :clap:

Tay
01-26-2005, 10:30 PM
Well,

all of you are so inspiring. I realize it is the end of the month, but I have decided to have a go with 'The Water Seller." Now, since I've had the chance to read all the other post before even starting..... I have some questions.

Biki, your doing so well. I like the color for the young boys coat, I was thinking brown but the blue looks good. Also, you once posted a cropped picture of the original painting. It was very good quality. Where did you get this from?

Other questions/ideas:

Isn't the head in the back ground to large? Either he is giant or practically standing on top of the two front figures. What is the black blob in the middle of the cup? I was thinking the boy was the water seller. WHAT is the boy looking at? What is sticking out of the man's chest? Coat flap? Buttons? It makes me nutso to copy something I can see, but don't know what it is.

I look forward to posting something soon. Even if I had started at the first of the month I wouldn't be done anyways!

WV.Artistry
01-27-2005, 12:05 AM
Tay

You might also notice the hands of the main character are so exaggerated in proportion to his face that it's almost comical.

Richard

Biki
01-27-2005, 12:08 AM
you once posted a cropped picture of the original painting. It was very good quality. Where did you get this from?



Hi Tay, & thanks for your comments.

I just cropped the original hi res image in photoshop.
i got my image off the ARC site.

Good luck - jump in, the water is fine.
i will leave it to the others to answer your other difficult questions.

Squib
01-27-2005, 09:18 AM
Hi Tay, - glad you are joining in.

I'll see if I can answer your questions, hope so. If not I'm sure the others will.


Other questions/ideas:

Isn't the head in the back ground to large? Either he is giant or practically standing on top of the two front figures.

Yes, the head seems out of proportion to the others. I even measured it when I was doing the drawing ! He looks very similar to one of the dwarfs in another of Velasquez' painting. I'll see if I can find it and upload it. I'm sure it's the same man.

What is the black blob in the middle of the cup?

The blob appears to me to be the black coat showing through the glass.

I was thinking the boy was the water seller.

I never got that impression. Look at the man's left hand - he is resting it on the jug rather possessively, and looks as though he is handing a glass to the boy. I may be wrong.

WHAT is the boy looking at?

He seems to be staring off into space - can't see anything in particular that he is looking at.

What is sticking out of the man's chest? Coat flap? Buttons?

I think it is the fabric of the unseen sleeve.



I'm going to upload the jpeg I am working from below. I don't know if it will make any difference in your monitor, but I lightened it quite a lot.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Jan-2005/35948-5957-velazquez-_waterseller.jpg

guillot
01-27-2005, 09:46 PM
:wave: Hi Tay :D Haven't seen you in awhile!! Hope you join in with us, and don't sweat the small stuff just paint what you see :)

Been working some more on mine - trying to get it finished up. The vases are more scary I think than the faces, LOL Still lots of shadow work to do, the boys face, some more work on the hands, etc. but this is where I'm at tonight:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Jan-2005/5957-Velazquez_vases1a.jpg

Thanks :)

Tina

guillot
01-27-2005, 11:03 PM
Finally - have a totally paint covered canvas!! I think I may have overdone some of the rings on the bigger vase, don't know. Still have lots of tweaking to do with shadows, highlights, and I need to finish the boys face - but I'm almost there !!!!

Had a bit of trouble with the smaller vase too :eek:

How is everyone else coming along?

Tina

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Jan-2005/5957-Velazquez_filled_canvas1a.jpg

sbeckett
01-28-2005, 12:25 AM
Waterseller 20X18

The coloring glazes were last. The first layer on the sellers face was kind of pale -like I was painting into gray and not over it. With the second second layer I may have gone too intense -he sure has a tan. I think grisaille takes more forethought than I'm willing to give it. You have to leave some values a bit high if they're going to take a alot of color -like under the sellers eye.
Some versions (like Lorraine's) of the image are darker than the print I worked from -I could be persuaded that "shadow man" should be darker and less cartoony than here. Maybe the glaze layers have faded. I might give the background another layer after I've lived with it awhile.
The photo is from a new camera (4.0MP after 1.3), but I'm still impressed with the focus -need to read that thread, I guess.
The Turners give me pause - like how much of those transparencies are brilliant glazing or a medium that aged really badly. I await Dave's birds-eye lowdown before I start.

thanks to all -Steve

Biki
01-28-2005, 01:09 AM
Steve, you really are amazing. That is sooooo good.

Tina, I like how you are doing too. Excellent joob on that larger jug, especially.

I didn't get too far. I am moving down the left side slowly making adjustments to the drawing. I am really still in the underpainting stage, but moving up a layer as i go.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Jan-2005/23158-28-JAN-1---WC.jpg

Moosehead
01-28-2005, 09:45 AM
Picked up my brushes last night for the first time in about 9 days. I got back from a vacation in Cuba on Tuesday night. That's the longest I haven't painted since I started about a year ago. Anyway, I was working on the boy's face and I was having quite a bit of trouble. It would seem less complex than the other face-but maybe I got rusty :D . Anyway, I may not finish before the month's end as my folks are in from out of town, but I will finish. Just wanted to pop in. Also, Steve, I wanted to mention that your's is incredible (sorry to others for not commenting), I just popped in and looked at the most recent postings-I'm busy at work after a week away.

Squib
01-28-2005, 03:44 PM
Hi All,

Lynn - how is Tammy Fae coming along ?

Tina - looking good. Yes, the vases are going to be a problem. But I'm taking my time.

Tricia - looking so good.

Barb - lovely.

Steve - absolutely wonderful.

Jon - welcome back. I'm sure you had a wonderful time.

Another couple of hours on mine today. I am working on the facial features, and have also manged to cover the canvas at last. The nearest hand is a puzzle, but as I said, I'm going slowly - and looking carefully. I'm quite pleased with the man's face, and will do some glazing on it later.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Jan-2005/35948-WS4.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Jan-2005/35948-WS6.JPG

Back later :wave:

Tay
01-28-2005, 04:21 PM
Steve, WOW! Your rendering of the faces is really sensational. I'm still struggling thru the drawing part. I use a grid and it seems very tedious at the moment.

Guillot, Aloha, I have started painting again after about a year and half. I used some of the time to work on my drawing skills and reread all my art books. I have also been giving pastals a try. How humbling. Drawing daily has improved my work tremendously. Even if it is only for 20 minutes or so. It's nice to be back.

Biki
01-29-2005, 01:12 AM
all day painting & the first layer is almost done. lots more shading to do & that big jug is gonna be a monster to get all those groves in.

i am thoroughly enjoying this painting. thanks for sharing it with me. :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Jan-2005/23158-29-jan-2---WC.jpg

Squib
01-29-2005, 04:24 AM
Tricia, this is looking wonderful. Yes, the jugs are going to be a test in patience. I'm looking closely at how you did the hands. I've found them to be the trickiest part so far.

Tay, looking forward to seeing your start. Yes, drawing with a grid is very tedious. I don't often do it, but have had to lately ! Seems my drawing skills are deteriorating (maybe its just my eyesight).

Later :wave:

guillot
01-29-2005, 11:04 AM
Guillot, Aloha, I have started painting again after about a year and half. I used some of the time to work on my drawing skills and reread all my art books. I have also been giving pastals a try. How humbling. Drawing daily has improved my work tremendously. Even if it is only for 20 minutes or so. It's nice to be back.

Hi Tay - it's great to have you back :) I'm doing life drawing/figure studies every wednesday now at a local art gallery. I just started, but I know it's going to do be a lot of good for me.

Steve - I'm saving the glazes for last as well. Will do that to correct some shadowing, etc., and to put the splash of color on the vase. Your painting is excellent :clap:

Biki - Thanks - looking great there!!!

Lorraine - Very good work on yours and see - you handled those wrinkles just fine :)

Fantastic work on everyone's part !!!
Tina

irish artist
01-30-2005, 09:15 AM
Lorraine and Biki, Looking good, congradulations you two!!

guillot
01-30-2005, 11:44 AM
Done !! :clap: I could probably work more on the boy's face, but just can't seem to get that angle right or something. I've increased shadows, worked the boy's face some more, glazed the guy in the back and to the right of the old man and into his clothing some to increase the shadows there. Glazed the splotch of color on the jug (which isn't the right color but close enough) and worked the water runs and droplets. Put the thread on the lid on the jug. I think it's close enough to call finished at this point.

I've really enjoyed working this one!!! Thanks everyone for all of the support and keep painting !! Everyone's Velazquez's are superb and everyone should be very very proud of themselves !! Can't wait to see all the finished versions.

Tina

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jan-2005/5957-Final2a.jpg

JKM
01-30-2005, 01:44 PM
Coming along well Lorraine - Looks Great:clap:

Well Done Tina. Brilliant! :clap: :clap:

Squib
01-30-2005, 03:25 PM
Thanks very much James & Irish. Tina - lovely :clap: :clap: :clap:

I have managed to get mine to the point where I am going to start glazing - and then it will be finished ! Tried to take a photo, but no good - too much glare. I will be letting it dry for a day or two, then start the glazes.

Well done everyone :clap: :clap: :clap:

guillot
01-30-2005, 10:51 PM
Hi JKM - thanks for the comments.

Hi Lorraine - Thank you too for the comments. It feels good getting this one behind me :) I had a hard time getting a good photo myself. Good luck and can't wait to see yours !!

How's everyone else coming along? I'm so proud for everyone here!! Such a fantastic endeavor this month - and everyone's results are coming along beautifully !!

Tina

Biki
01-31-2005, 12:44 AM
Hi Tina, what's it feel like to be finished. :confused: :D

Mighty fine results there.
Raine, yours too will end up a winner.

I think mine will take another week or two yet.
I am learning that i get a better result if i take my time. - otherwise i rush in without thinking about how to best approach the next step.

I will get another day to paint tomorrow & then maybe half a day Wednesday if i am lucky.

see you then. :wave:

rwhiteley
01-31-2005, 05:44 PM
Hi All, just back after a week in Tampa Fla with son daughter in law and grandson. Hes just coming up 2 and such fun. I have rashly promised to try to do a portrait. See thumbnail below. Any suggestions for how to mix proper skin tones for a 2 year old?
Tina Barb and Dave , thanks for your comments.
Dave, re insights and lessons learned, I think mostly I learned to work with a limited pallette, and also to work mostly in earth colors. It seemed to me that to get the light effects you had to work on the darks. I am hugely impressed by Velasques draftsmanship. His drawing is flawless , ok we can talk about big hands and the big face behind, but they were perfectly drawn. Is there any indication that he used any drawing aides, camera obscura etc? or was he just virtuoso with freehand. I have to say that I use all the aides I can to get the drawing as right as I can get it.
This has been a wonderful first month MOM, congrats all :clap: :clap: :clap:
heres my new project[as well as the Feb moms]
Richard 2

dcorc
01-31-2005, 09:49 PM
Just catching up with everybody here - time seems to fly by ever faster :(

I seem to remember at the start of the month quite a lot of worries about whether these paintings (and particularly the waterseller) were too difficult? :p

I see lots of very successful renditions here, and lots of good progress in those still underway. To pick up on a specific point or two:

Steve - terrific! - you commented about needing to keep the griseille a bit high-key - I'm sure that's correct.

Richard2 - as you say, lights are largely achieved by contrast with the darks - Post your grandson as a WIP in a thread in the main forum,and we will all cheer you along, and give what advice we can.

Tina - splendid - lots of tight value control in the midtones I think, particularly in the boy's face, to model the form :clap:

Biki - take your time, it's developing beautifully - I think that by adapting it, you've taken on the most challenging task of all of us, so just keep going!

Lorraine - very nice indeed - and you're quite right that the original is at the Wellington Museum, Apsley House, Hyde Park Corner :o - so many London museums, so many treasures here, so little time!

Barb, Jon, Tay, Lynn - looking forward to developments

James - very good to have you all around!

:wave: to Richard and Diann(irish artist), and to Dianne - and I'm sure there are probably others I should mention! :o

I haven't had a chance to get back to mine in the last few days - I've done a little more since my last photo - I'll try to find a bit of time in the morning to possibly do a little, and take a photo in daylight.

I'm just about to post the Feb MOM - Turner - in a few minutes - but don't let that inhibit people from still working on, or still signing up to, this one here - we keep them all open permanently, new entrants are always welcome!

Dave

guillot
01-31-2005, 11:22 PM
Hi Tina, what's it feel like to be finished. :confused: :D

Hi Biki - well considering I have some I never completely finished - it feels very good !!

Hi Dave :wave: Thanks for the comments. Looking forward to you hosting this next months Turner !!! Great job on the thread :D

RWhiteley - you have a beautiful grandchild there !!! Will make a wonderful portrait !!! Welcome back :)

Tina

Yokovich
02-01-2005, 01:39 AM
you all did beautifully!

Here it is January 31 and I blocked in the needlewoman. It is still January until midnight (lol) and my goal was to start her today (and I did!---yahoo!!) Looks funny now but I hope to improve on it tomorrow! :)

Biki
02-01-2005, 02:07 AM
Celestia, i love this rendition just as it is.!!
it is so different & bold.

Thanks Dave. I am taking my time.
I had only half a day today, but moved along some.
still lots to do, and the pic is not accutrate as to the shading.
the wine is deeper red - the skin of the recipient of the wine looks blotchy here, but still, for some reason i am not happy with this face.
Dave, can you now jump in & tell me if & how this person is off.? Actually, i will send you a PM.
I am going to keep going with this until I simply cannot improve it.

I have more to do on the hands & shading everywhere - and of course that big jug. i would love to try & get those little grooves in & popping, but i may just chicken out, coz i actually don't know how to go about it.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Feb-2005/23158-1-feb-1---WC.jpg

JKM
02-01-2005, 07:12 AM
Looks like a good start to me celestia :clap:

And Biki that is looking amazing :clap:

Tay
02-01-2005, 09:21 PM
I'm still here! I have my sketch in finaly. I had to redo the whole thing. I started with the canvas and picture graphed out. Some how I didn't calculate the dimensions correctly. It's looking OK, but abreviated at the bottom. I'll wait to post till Fri after I've slapped some paint on it.

Biki,

your painting is turning out very well. You have done a wonderful job on the faces.

guillot
02-01-2005, 10:33 PM
Celestia - that's a wonderful start. Glad to see you making it to do one of these paintings !!

Biki - I like your painting ! I think it's coming along very nice.

Tay - good - so glad to hear that you are working on yours too !!!

Tina

Tay
02-01-2005, 11:09 PM
I'm still here! I have my sketch in finaly. I had to redo the whole thing. I started with the canvas and picture graphed out. Some how I didn't calculate the dimensions correctly. It's looking OK, but abreviated at the bottom. I'll wait to post till Fri after I've slapped some paint on it.

Biki,

your painting is turning out very well. You have done a wonderful job on the faces.

Moosehead
02-01-2005, 11:49 PM
Well, here it is, 1 day late. I'm not particularly happy with the lad's face-and I could spend several more hours tweaking, but I'm going to call this done.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Feb-2005/41799-waterseller.jpg

guillot
02-02-2005, 07:01 AM
Great Job Moosehead!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Squib
02-02-2005, 07:23 AM
Celestia - really lovely.

Tricia - georgeous atmosphere in this one.

Jon - great - what a quick worker you are !

Tay - looking forward to seeing yours.

Well, I could have done a lot more on mine, but have decided to stop fiddling and call it....

.....Fini, Finis, Fertig, Finito, Pelile, Finne, Klaar, Fardig.....FINISHED - HOORAH :D :p :D !!!

Really enjoyed it, and so enjoyed everyone's company too. Thanks you all for your support and encouragement - forward gang - on to the next one.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Feb-2005/35948-finis.JPG

Moosehead
02-02-2005, 03:50 PM
Thanks Tina and Lorraine. Yours' both came out very well as well. A tough one, for me. Lorraine, I started at the beginning of the month-so not as quick as you think. I was away for a week however.

One thing that I learned is by joining the MOM, you persist where you othewise might not. As I said I had a tough time with the boy's face, but having joined in, I felt obligated to stick it out. It's good though-a little work never hurt anybody. I've mostly painted landscapes, so this was definitely a learning experience.

Biki
02-02-2005, 05:45 PM
Raine, i think you did super. I love your little jug.

Moose, you did super too. You did great with the man's face.

i have to work today, but will have fun playing on the weekend.

thanks to Tay & Raine & all for your kind encouragement.

Mo.
02-02-2005, 07:03 PM
Hi folks, apologies for being absent for a while, I've been fighting off a nasty virus and so didn't feel like doing much until today.
Apologies too if I miss anyone here, I'm on the last page and really don't have the energy to to go through the whole thread, hope you understand.

Just want to say I'm so in awe of everyone's work here, each and everyone one of you have all done such beautiful work.

Biki, I'm in love with your take on on the Waterseller, you have brought a touch of romance into it and that lady strongly resembles Princess Di to me. :clap: :clap:

Celestia, I can't believe how quickly you have done what you have done so far, it's looking superb already, so you'll be finished tomorrow then? :)

Raine I also love your little jug, your painting is super. :clap:

Moosehead, Great stuff! :clap:
Lorraine, yours has turned out wonderfully well too. :clap:

Well here's where I'm at at the moment, not sure if I'll finish it, as I so want to tackle Feb's MOM, I just love Turner.

Sorry for the crap photo, the paint was still wet, so had to turn it, there are umpteen errors to be ironed out, but have to say I've so enjoyed the experience.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Feb-2005/5154-DSCF0005.JPG

cheers,
Mo.

guillot
02-02-2005, 11:40 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap: Looking fantastic Mo !!!!! Great job !

Tina

Moosehead
02-03-2005, 09:30 AM
Thanks Biki and Mo.

Bike-I liked your take on it-you hopeless romantic :D .

Mo-your's came out really well-you nailed it.

Mo.
02-03-2005, 06:33 PM
Thank you Tina, you are great encourager, thank you also Jon, nailed it hey ;)
I may finish eventually.

Tina I had a bit more energy tonight so took a look at yours, I can not see what you mean about the angle of the boy, looks good to me, super work!
I found those elipses quite hard as I had lost my initial sketch so had to adjust as I went along, not that easy. To take Jon's quote, you nailed those well!

Mo.

guillot
02-04-2005, 11:05 AM
Hi Mo. Thanks for the comments. I had a hard time with the boy's face because of the angle in which he has his head. The lighting and the shadows. I have his mouth wrong, and couldn't quite get the form "spot on" in the contours of his face. Someone in another thread said his expression looked like he may have bought sour water, LOL - which I thought quite funny. :) Will be watching for your finish, I think it will be quite wonderful !

This was a very difficult MOM, I think right up there with Thatcher and Zorn, but I learned quite a bit, especially from this limited "baroque" palette, and in lighting and shadows and those wrinkles :) I think if I ever have to paint wrinkles again - I will not be so intimidated by them.

Everyone should be very, very proud of themselves for pulling this one off :)

Tina

Biki
02-05-2005, 12:46 AM
Hello fellow art lovers,

I am still going with this.
I didn't like the girl's face, so i totally changed it. Made her

about an inch shorter & also found a reference photo to go by, this time .

I have finally blocked out the old face & now all i have to do is build up the new face. But everything else is almost done.

I am not sure about the shoulders of the girl - if they look right. Maybe Dave could jump in with some comment.?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Feb-2005/23158-5-feb-3---WC.jpg

dcorc
02-05-2005, 03:13 AM
Just catching up again here - lots of good progress

Tricia - I think you've reworked the left-hand figure very well - the shoulders look fine to me.

Jon - very good job - the MOMs are intended to stretch people - make them take on something perhaps more challenging than they otherwise would - and because composition, colour choices and so on are all more or less decided, it allows one to concentrate particularly on issues of paint handling, drawing and values/colouration - which are all the practicalities which will fast-track one's own paintings :)

Raine - those wrinkles worked out splendidly (but you missed out the really big brown floppy ears :p )

Mo - this is coming along well - things don't have to be done within the month, though obviously it makes sense if we are all working at our versions more or less at the same time (I've got several accumulated over the months which I still need to do finishing touches for :o )

Celestia - great start! likely to get some further done across this weekend?

Barb - where've you got to ? :)

Tina - I think the posture of the boys head probably does make it the trickiest element in this painting -

I also think everyone's done very well here with challenging paintings, the hands in the Needlewoman, and the triple portrait in the Waterseller.

I'm intending to try to spend as much time painting this weekend as possible, see if I can catch up a bit on various projects, including this one!

Dave

michael harding
02-05-2005, 07:18 AM
Hi, I am a new member checking to see if this works, please respond. thanks in advance

dcorc
02-05-2005, 07:22 AM
Hi Michael !

The Michael Harding (http://www.michaelharding.co.uk)? Welcome!!

Dave

michael harding
02-05-2005, 07:28 AM
Hi, if you mean the poor man who spends his life grinding yes. I am having trouble understanding my way around and this is very strange.
harding

JKM
02-05-2005, 07:34 AM
Hi Michael and welcome to wetcanvas :wave: Why not introduce yourself over in the New Users Forum. There is a link to this forum below.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=35

dcorc
02-05-2005, 07:42 AM
Hi, if you mean the poor man who spends his life grinding yes. I am having trouble understanding my way around and this is very strange.
harding

:) - well it's very nice to have you here!

The main Oil Painting forum is here:http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10

Easiest thing is just to browse around for a while, find your way about - the list of all the main forums is here:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/index.php?

and there's a general intro to the site and its facilities here:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45109
(which is in the new users forum James gave you the link for, above)

Dave

michael harding
02-05-2005, 07:51 AM
hi JKM,
this is getting scarey!
my problem is mainly finding how to get the site to work and how... its scarey because it seems quite a few people out there know me and I do not know them. also I am very enthuisastic about WC and have seen alot of quality in the discussion groups. I would like to help people but at the same time not upset the moderators. also my email from this PC at my home cannot send emails out...drives me mad. and I am afraid that people might try and contact me and I might not be able to respond but this seems to be working.
I will try what you said however the moderators may find my presence inapropriate.
Michael

dcorc
02-05-2005, 08:16 AM
Michael - rest assured, as one of the Moderators here on the Oils forum, I can tell you that your presence is very welcome and not at all inappropriate.

I'm just about to send you a "Private message" within the next few mins which you should be able to access from here: http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/private.php?
- give me a few mins :)

Dave

dcorc
02-05-2005, 08:25 AM
sent you a PM, Michael :)

Dave

Biki
02-05-2005, 11:37 PM
I think it is finished.!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Feb-2005/23158-6-feb-11---WC.jpg

dcorc
02-06-2005, 02:31 AM
Hi Tricia - looks finished to me too - I think you've done a splendid job on this! :clap:

Dave

Biki
02-06-2005, 02:42 AM
Thank you Dave.

The colour is quite off in this, i adjusted the image on WOYE - made it greener
like it really is.

Tomorrow i will turn it upside down & check those elipses one more time.
I can see at least two things a little off just yet.

I am incredibly pleased with it myself. :)
I might turn all my MOMs into something "meaningful to me". ;)

I will rest up this week & get ready for a two day workshop next weekend.
No Turner for me, i'm afraid. But i will be watching you all.

Thanks again for your tireless encouragement Dave. It means so much to me.

:wave:

Tay
02-09-2005, 11:11 PM
hello........hello........is anyone here?

I did start this, and plan to finish it. I can't post a WIP due to computer problems.

guillot
02-09-2005, 11:18 PM
Michael - you're always welcome here!! Don't know why you would feel your presence inappropriate :) :o

Biki - Fantastic !!! A timeless piece for your wall. Great, fantastic work :clap:Your painting came out beautifully !!!!!!!!!!

Tay - still here sweetie!! many members post "post-month", or happen along the threads and decide post-month that they want to do one of these - so don't worry - we're all still following along, and cheering you on !!! :angel:

Tina

Biki
02-10-2005, 03:40 AM
hello........hello........is anyone here?

I did start this, and plan to finish it. I can't post a WIP due to computer problems.

Hello Tay,

I keep wondering where paradise is. Are you telling me you live where i live in Byron Bay, Oz.? :D

Get that computer fixed & show us your stuff. :wink2:

Biki
02-10-2005, 03:42 AM
Thank you Tina. I am going to tweek it some more ( i think).

I am resting up for a weekend workshop. I hope it helps. :confused: