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tammy
11-17-2001, 08:31 PM
Ok, a while back I said that I'm not signed up with paypal. Ok well, now I am but I'm confused. Maybe some of you who have had it for awhile can help. Ok, I have the personal account. I have not added a credit or bank card so therefore I can't move money from PP account to my bank. That's ok so far but the thing that confuses me is the logo thing.
I read the rules (fine print) and it seems to be that you cannot use their logo on your auctions if you do not take Credit cards.
Well then also it says that with a personal account you can't take cc payments and if someone tries then you have to deny the payment. Personal accounts mean that people can only pay you from either their Paypal account or their bank account. Well then if this is being so then that means that someone with a unverified personal account cannot use PayPal logos on their auctions! To me this means that you absolutely will have to give them credit card info and if you do then you are able to upgrade to the other accounts.
Anyway, if all this is the case, then what does one do who doesn't want to give them your cc or debit card. Just not use the Logo and just state in your auctions that you take Paypal just not with credit cards? Very confusing to me.

timelady
11-18-2001, 06:02 AM
Yes, it IS confusing. I would email PayPal since they changed the policy about personal accounts accepting credit cards, and ask them to provide an alternative logo that does not have the Visa/Mc version picture on it. It's only fair since THEY made the policy, right?

Also, I think a lot of personal account holders don't know about this which is why the information may be conflicting. For now I would use the PayPal logo and put a line of text underneath stating that you can only take payments from PayPal balances or eChecks due to PayPal's own policy, and that the logo is misleading because they don't provide an alternative one.

Finally, you should verify your address. Many many sellers will refuse a payment from an unverified address (including international which is annoying because all international addresses are unverified). In fact, they can block payments from unverified automatically. You may find buyers won't send to an unverified address either. Topmost in their minds will be: "Why doesn't she want to register her address wtih PayPal? She must be dodgy!" We know you're not but that's what they might think. Especially since you're in the US anyway and it'a mainly international who have trouble verifying.

Have you looked at Yahoo payments? They have no fees. I haven't signed up because it's not international yet:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/paydirect/

Tina.

tammy
11-18-2001, 02:45 PM
In a another thread I started I suggested some Auction e-zines. What one finds out about PP is amazing. Also, to get verified with PP you ARE giving them your cc #/bank account info. Also, in one place it says that personal accounts can take cc payments to a certain limit and then in another place in their terms it says personal accounts cannot take them. Of course, on the auction page it is one person rating the services but it seems that payingfast.com may be the safest for those of us who really don't want CC payments and the possible chargebacks that go with them and yet it makes it easy to pay for the buyer. Another is C2it. They are FDIC. It's kind of interesting what is said about Yahoo's paydirect also. You should go read. Let me get the exact address of the thing I read.

The idea about the text under the logo is a good idea. Thanks

Oh, here is the link
http://www.ygoodman.com/payments.html

timelady
11-18-2001, 03:24 PM
Alas, PayPal is the only one that offers international so far. (although I hear rumours that Billpoint will soon) I can't sign up with the others.

You give out your bank information on every check you write. Your credit card no isn't really a big deal. I have the same risk with credit card chargebacks (probably 75% of my sales) whether I accept PayPal or hire a credit card machine/account from a bank. PayPal fees work out cheaper for me. In about 6 years of buying online (even without secure systems) I've never been scammed. That's better than my record buying over the phone or from catalogs.

Ah well. :rolleyes:
Tina

CarlyHardy
11-18-2001, 08:52 PM
Tammy, I know PayPal offers a lot of different logos that you can insert yourself into your auctions. Did you check out those and see if one of them is just a simple PAYPAL logo without all the extra stuff on it?

I like PayPal because they have a no charge-back policy! With Billpoint, a buyer can charge back an amount months after the transaction has been finalized. No protection there.
carly

tammy
11-18-2001, 10:19 PM
Carly,
There are no logos for Paypal without the visa. The terms definitely say that Personal accounts cannot take Credit Card payments but to use the Logo you have to take them! Yet in another place it says that Personal accounts can take CC but only to a certain limit. It you ask me, if this is so then a person almost has to upgrade to get many benefits from it. Also, read this article on AuctionBytes.
Very confusing at the very least.
http://www.ygoodman.com/shortppl.html

leesmith
11-19-2001, 08:34 PM
Hey girls!

I had a PP account, personal. And now that I have been paid by a certain some one, ( I dare not mention her name LOL she might find her way over her to post some more ) I found out when I went to collect the $, that I could ONLY get it to upgrade to a Premier. It had been a while since I used PP and I was sure something had changed. I had spent so much time trying to get that darn payment, I went ahead and upgraded, my only other choice was to deny the payment, no way was I doing that.

PP said the fees would be 2.9% plus 30 cents. So now if I use PP then all my transactions are going to be hit with bigger fees.

Carly, thanks for clarifying that about paypal and BP chargebacks. That is another good reason NOT to take BP anymore.

Do any of you use the Bid Pay? At $5.00 it's not really suitable for smaller priced items. And Tammy I want to check out those that you mentioned. I've been seeing a lot of the C2it in the listings.

Lee

tammy
11-19-2001, 08:47 PM
What's the deal with your e-mail addy. Every time I mail you it bounces back to me???

BTW. I believe u bout u know what!

Also your right. Using PP if I don't give a cc #, I can never tranfer my funds out of PP. And giving a cc # means upgrade!

Oh, I forgot. To get your money you can. If you want them to send snail mail check in 2 to 3 weeks. LOL

leesmith
11-20-2001, 09:26 AM
Tammy are you getting an email failure or any kind of a message on your emails to me?

I've had many emails returned to me with email failure the last day or two but I don't know what that means. I blocked you know who, I'll go and check and see what's in my blocked file.
YOU should definitely NOT be in there, I LOVE hearing from you, girl!

That ding dong emailed me all day yesterday and I finally blocked her mails. She told me to "get a life" after my very polite mails to her, to which I signed off my last STILL POLITE email to her with "get a therapist". LOL

I just couldn't resist, she got nasty after I told her if she couldn't pay for the paintings, then to please ship them back.

Lee

timelady
11-20-2001, 03:44 PM
Hey Lee, you can revert back to a personal account. Sounds like you went over your monthly PayPal limit for a personal account. (the limit has been in place for over a year nw, not a new thing).

Here's how:

You're allowed to have a personal and business/premier account with PayPal. Open a new personal account with a 2nd email address (use your artistnation email or get a hotmail account or something if you don't have a 2nd email addy). Make a payment to yourself from the Premier account to your personal account. Then delete the Premier account. Then go back to the personal account and change the email address back to your normal one. Voila! :) You've ditched the high fees Premier account.

Hope that method still works. I did it about a year ago. (but then upgraded anyway because I needed more than the personal account limit)

Tina.

CarlyHardy
11-20-2001, 11:39 PM
Tammy, I have a PayPal personal account. I didn't give them a credit card...and I get paid using PayPal all the time by buyers who use their credit cards to deposit the funds in my PayPal account.

I then transfer those funds to my personal bank account when I want to. I keep some funds in my PayPal account to spend on paintings that I buy!! That way I don't have to use a credit card to pay for my purchases either.
carly

tammy
11-21-2001, 06:37 PM
Well, my buyer for my auction finally paid me through Paypal. Unfortuantly they wanted to pay by credit card and I had to deny the payment because Paypal sent me an email stating that to accept it I would have to upgrade to a Premier or Business Account which as you all know would mean that it would cost fees then to do so.

marilyn h
11-21-2001, 09:35 PM
Tell me more about eSR. I haven't yet posted anything on ebay. I have a lot of questions and this forum has been of great interest to me. Thank you.

timelady
11-22-2001, 02:59 PM
marilyn - I assume you mean [email protected], which is a group for self-representing artists. There's a longer thread about it in this forum althoguh it might be dated a couple weeks back or so. It's all explained there and there's a link to their site too. :)

Tina.

Sandi
11-26-2001, 05:27 PM
I signed up for the 'Premium" account. I was confused over their $100.00 limit on the "Personal" account. I read it to mean that even the buyer couldn't send more than $100.00 through Personal Account setup. Is that correct?

Sumafra
11-29-2001, 01:57 AM
I started with the personal account at Paypal. The minute I had a transaction over $100, I had to upgrade to the Premier account. Frankly, it's not a big deal. There's a small charge on each payment. It's still worth it when you consider the convenience of having payments made practically instantly. I don't think it's a big deal. I really like using Paypal and most of my buyers seem to like it too. Most of them chose to pay that way. Works for me.

tammy
11-29-2001, 12:41 PM
I've just about decided that a personal account will do nothing for you except force someone to upgrade and that's about it. I had one buyer that paid and the money is in my account but without giving a cc or bank account info, I can't do anything with the money that I have there except let it sit or ask for a check from PP that will take about 2 wks for me to get, although I was thinking I might leave it there to pay for stuff myself but don't know if I can do that even with no bank info on file. When you upgrade any charge backs or anything else that goes wrong will come out of your bank account as I see it. That makes me reluctant to upgrade and yet see upgrading as the only way that Paypal can be useful to anyone IMO. If I'm wrong ya'll let me know.

CarlyHardy
12-01-2001, 01:12 AM
Tammy, PayPal does not allow chargebacks. Your buyer would have to notify you if they want a refund and you would have to use PayPal to send the money back to them (if you wanted to do that).

I have my bank account set up with PayPal so that I can make deposits into it when I want to. Most of the time, I use the money for purchases! PayPal does not take money out of my bank account.

They are not like Billpoint!
carly

Sumafra
12-01-2001, 01:57 AM
Can someone explain to me how a charge back would happen? I don't quite understand that part. When I registered with Paypal I had to wait until a $1 charge went through on my account to be verified. Don't they do that with everyone (or is it just because I'm outside of the States). I assumed that once a payment has been made it cannot be reversed. Can someone set me straight?

timelady
12-01-2001, 05:48 AM
A charge back is when the customer complains to their credit card that the item was fraudulent, broken, not delivered, etc. You can do a chargeback - if you ever complaint about an item on your CC bill the credit card company will investigate it and if you're right you get a refund. The person on the other end experiences a chargeback.

And no PayPal doesn't protect you from this completely. They SAY they do but there are many stories of chargebacks happening anyway. However, I think think this happens most often with high-priced and commonly fraudulent items such as electronics and such. PayPal doesn't protect against chargebacks from international customers. Another however, I don't think you'll find a company that protects any better. Billpoint certainly doesn't.

Funny how accepting credit cards starts to sound like playing the stock market! :) I wouldn't worry about it too much, anyone with a personal account can't take CC payments anyway so no chargebacks to worry about.

Tina.

tammy
12-01-2001, 01:20 PM
I guess no one read about the ratings on online billing services that I read and gave the link to on http://www.ygoodman.com/payments.html

about Paypal as well as others. A real eye opener. I'm not saying people should not use them or anything like that yet do so with caution. I'm still using them too and also took steps for verification although wasn't so sure I wanted to.
The article I read alludes to Paypal as not a secure protection from chargebacks because you have to prove address of item sent and Post office confirmation does not show address, the way I understand it. I gave the link because I wish folks to read it for themselves instead of me trying to explain it.
PS. I'm NOT on a bandwagon against them or anything BTW.

tammy
12-01-2001, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Sumafra
When I registered with Paypal I had to wait until a $1 charge went through on my account to be verified. Don't they do that with everyone
Yes, they do that with everyone who gives them bank account info, US and international.

tammy
12-01-2001, 01:27 PM
[i]I wouldn't worry about it too much, anyone with a personal account can't take CC payments anyway so no chargebacks to worry about.

Tina. [/B]
That's what I mean. A personal account doesn't offer much for the seller and you almost have to upgrade to get any benefit from them.

kjsspot
12-02-2001, 11:16 AM
Has anyone here actually experianced a chargeback on any of the services? I mean, how common of a problem is it? I would think that this is a very low percentage. Anyone know for certain?

tammy
12-02-2001, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by kjsspot
Has anyone here actually experianced a chargeback on any of the services? I mean, how common of a problem is it?
I have no idea! I don't worry so much about the chargeback as long as I have not sent the item yet. Isn't a chargeback, the person with the CC taking back the price they just paid you? At least you would know what that amount is, but I'd worry about what the fees for the chargeback are. As I understand it you are the one who gets stuck with the fees for their boo boo.

leesmith
12-03-2001, 12:42 PM
Tina,
what happened with my PP account is a buyer paid me with a credit card and when I went to accept it pp said I had to either upgrade to a Premier or deny accepting the money so I really didn't have a choice.

I don't understand why BP can't be used by international sellers, I've been paid several times with BP by international BUYERs. That makes no sense at all to me.

And what about this new PP rule that to keep your premier account you have to list one ebay I think at least every 3 weeks!

I have 4 on right now on ebay with NO bids even after reducing one of them to $1.00! The viewers are really down according to my counters. Oh well, if they don't sell I may donate something to AFA, and take a chance on the $ making it to NY, or maybe I'll try yahoo like Tammy did. I don't think there are many cat collectors on yahoo but yahooers seem to like BIG paintings 36 X 24 and they go for on $40 to $50 mostly; they do like oriental art which I find strange.

I don't worry about chargebacks on BP since everyone has left pos FB BUT on my future listings I do not plan to take Billpoint period, just paypal. A lot of my buyers have used BP and I've never had a chargeback yet.


Lee

tammy
12-03-2001, 06:05 PM
Lee,
I also noticed that most of that big art being sold on Yahoo is being sold by folks who had mass quanities for sale. Also is hard to tell if they are the artists or if they are only selling for different artists. It is very hard to tell which they are just by reading the descriptions on the items. It looks as if it could be either case. It almost looks as if they have hundreds of listings and theirs are the first you see when searching the art-painting catagories.

CarlyHardy
12-03-2001, 11:51 PM
Tammy, I did some research on the Yahoo art scene several months ago...and found that the biggest sellers of art there are not artists. Some are antique dealers, some are wholesellers. I still don't know how they can afford to sell such large canvases so cheap! Some go for a $1 at times! but they must be making money somehow or they wouldn't keep listing so many paintings!!
carly

CarlyHardy
12-03-2001, 11:56 PM
When I use Delivery Confirmation for my shipments...I can find out the address the item was delivered to.

I had one buyer who did not receive his artwork and emailed me to see if it had been shipped. I checked online with the usps and it showed that the package had been delivered. I let the buyer know the date it had been delivered and he called the post office. They checked and found that it had been left "next door" with a neighbor who had forgotten to give it to him! So they did know the address it was left at.

I always use the Delivery confirmation and insurance for my own peace of mind!

At eBay most of the people who complain about charge backs say they occur months after the buyer has received the shipment. I think Billpoint should have a time limit on its charge-back policies.
carly

LarrySeiler
12-28-2001, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by leesmith
And what about this new PP rule that to keep your premier account you have to list one ebay I think at least every 3 weeks!
Lee

W-W-WHAT????

I've been lurking a bit to learn more. I'm getting ready to add some kind of a credit card capability to my website, and have been leaning toward PayPal. What is this? To sell my art, I have to list one with eBay at least once every three weeks? What kind of malarky is that? I mean, I don't mind...except I'm busy and its sorta like remembering the garbage goes out on Sunday nights, this that and the other thing. As if life isn't complicated enough. Someone please explain more on this....
thanks,

Larry

timelady
12-28-2001, 04:34 PM
Well, if this is PayPal policy I have yet to hear about it. I haven't listed for about 4 weeks on ebay and considering that PayPal is not JUST for eBay I would find it very surprising. The policy might be for people who are premier sellers (can't remember the exact name, but they get a lower percentage rate on their fees). PayPal hasn't contacted me about not listing in December and I just edited my contact details this week and saw no notice. (For anyone interested I'm holding off for the post-xmas buyers and until the AFA thing is over, it's killed my sales.)

Tina.

sportpony
12-28-2001, 06:31 PM
I don't think there is any new requirement from PayPal that you are required to list on eBay ... I've had a PayPal account for nearly 18 months now ... it is upgraded to a Premier account as I wanted to be able to accept stud fee payments from mare owners if they wanted to pay by credit card ...

I have sold some things on eBay (and bought lots more) but it's not regular and I know I haven't had anything listed to sell there for 6 weeks or more ...

tammy
12-28-2001, 10:56 PM
I'm not sure but I think the policy is something like this. I think it only applies to Premium or Business accounts b/c they are the only accounts which can take CC payments. I believe that the rule is that you can only fly Paypal on your auctions as a payment option and no other in order to receive a referal bonus for yourself and if the people who bought your item sign up for PP in order to buy your item. They do that by clicking the Paypal logo on your auction. If they sign up and buy your item through PP, then you get the bonus.
Lee, unless I missed it, I think this is what they mean. I don't believe that they require you to always have an item for sale with their logo on it.

Larry, I think you can go through them to put cc purchases through your site even if you don't have any on auction.

I may have some of this mixed up but I tried to read their policies pretty well before I signed up.

sportpony
12-29-2001, 07:16 AM
I do have a "premium" account with PayPal because some months the incoming payments are over the limit for their personal accounts. As far as I know, the only difference here is the percentage they charge you ... like a merchant's account does when you accept direct credit card charges as a business.

I don't know what the regulations are as far as using the PayPal logo on eBay auction items. When I put something up on the auction I simply list PayPal as one of the ways I will accept payment. I don't use any of the automated "checkout" options and if the buyer emails and says they want to use PayPal, they use my email address to send the $$ to through PayPal.

As far as the wait for verification: in some cases (this has happened twice for me) the person paying has had to transfer funds from their bank account or credit card into their PayPal account to cover the amount of the payment being made to my PayPal account. The verification of the account means that they've verified that you have a verifiable bank account or credit card account ... not that you have the amount of money in it that you are transferring at that time! What PayPal is doing is verifying that you are not going to get what amounts to a "bounced check" for insufficient funds.

The person paying you doesn't have enough money in their PayPal account so they transfer money in from their bank account. It takes 3 or 4 days for the wire transfer to go through and be verified (same as it does when you take money out of PayPal and have it wire transferred to your bank account). Once the transfer is complete and verified ... then it's transferred to your PayPal account.

kjsspot
12-29-2001, 12:46 PM
The word ya'll are looking for is PayPal Prefered. Not Premium. Paypal preferred is where you list ONLY them on your auctions. Then you get a cash back % on using the debit card. This is specifically made for Ebay.

tammy
12-29-2001, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by kjsspot
The word ya'll are looking for is PayPal Prefered. Not Premium. Paypal preferred is where you list ONLY them on your auctions. Then you get a cash back % on using the debit card. This is specifically made for Ebay.
Thanks. I knew it didn't apply to all Paypal users, I just didn't know who it did. That explains it.