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mame
12-09-2004, 09:52 AM
Ah, come on, it'll be fun. :wink2:

reynolds
12-09-2004, 09:57 AM
i post for community and critique.

this has me thinking...it is a great
and useful question.
i shall be back.

ordie4
12-09-2004, 11:57 AM
i, too, like a critique although
it's hard to ask for one considering
i don't feel qualified to critique
others art.

in all honesty, that very
instant after i've finished one i usually
feel pretty proud and am genuinely
happy with the finished result. (that usually
wears off in a couple of days :rolleyes: ).
i guess it really is more of a "sharing"
experience in my case.

and even when i myself am not
active, i'm always lurking on these pages
enjoying the fresh work in our little
dungeon down here.....

Smileawhyl
12-09-2004, 12:00 PM
Ah, come on, it'll be fun. :wink2:
You asked the question. Shouldn't you go first? :evil:

I post my artwork here so that somebody other than my family and friends will see it, especially since the audience is more likely to have a critical eye for the effort.

ThurmanHubbard
12-09-2004, 12:14 PM
My reasons have already been covered by others. If I didn't post here, no one outside my house would be very likely to see it. Also, I've got an extreme inferiority complex, and posting here, in semi-anonymity, helps me to gain confidence and maybe someday take the bold step of actually approaching a gallery or joining a local group. :eek:

I browse WC because for me, it's the best way I know to learn :clap:

mame
12-09-2004, 04:58 PM
I thought it might be an interestingly thought-provoking, self-considering question but I guess it wasn't that much fun, eh?

Smile - I didn't want to skew individual interpretations of the question

I posted artworks here initially because I was new to the internet and to discussion forums and it was just so neat and rather exciting to see my own renderings on the world wide web! A totally different experience than real life for some reason.

I also found that seen from "a distance" so to speak, I could nail problems/ small niggling things, areas that didn't make sense, etc. For some reason, cyberspace (and being open to a universe of "eyes", ) gives the work some kind of psychological distance, removes the "attachment" to the work in terms of seeing it in a hyper-critical way.

Bisco
12-09-2004, 05:26 PM
yup, and when you see your art in video/computer screen, it tricks the brain into thinking its seeing a new image, if only for a second. Which I think is key.
This place on some level (conceptually) holds that same psychological wieght on being a "gallery".. or something public for your eyes/mind.. although somewhat removed. The removement I think is only good for your inner-self-critique.. which is the only critique worth a damn.. :rolleyes:

The removement is good, how ever you can roll with it. I do odd things like look at my artwork projected though old tv screens, different sizes, resolutions, printing distorted versions and getting to know the removement caused by the distortion which isnt the "art". I do these things and dont give much thought to it. Maybe it just keeps me interested.. I would recomend you all to put images of your work onto CD or DVD. The JPEG images will play on most DVD players.

muchfoolishness
12-09-2004, 05:31 PM
something of closure
something of distance
something of contributing
something of ego
something of a reality check
something of a yell
something of a whisper
:D

Bisco
12-09-2004, 05:39 PM
That, and you can see the title before you see the work,<click> Where else? I ask. Thats a huge deal you monkeys. well not really...

AbstractHeart
12-09-2004, 06:02 PM
what everyone else said and...

i'm the only artist that i know locally..so it's nice to see others art and get feedback on my art so that if I am painting horribly, I know it..LOL

ashling
12-09-2004, 06:33 PM
i dont
my art work is empyreal
thats a swish word i looked up & liked better for intangible :D
for me relating artfully isnt quantifiable and lacks visual representation by form
unless i take photos which i do but they're not really appropriate for this forum :) the question for me may also be as well as, why do i come here? i think i come here because i admire others who give matter existence thru the visual world of art, i think its partly community, connection with same tribe/like minded, a longing for understanding & intimacy in areas that make our own hearts sing, the other parts subjective to perception - neurosis' dis-eases' interpretations' which are all forgivable blah blah blah i enjoy being stimulated to the point where my mind races off into story land, i rarely participate unless its an uncontrollable wooooosh feeling, fortunately those who know me humour my dark & embrace my bright, indulging my story telling affliction with kindness....... phew... otherwise i'd be very alone by now ;)
mame i think its a good fun question
& i've enjoyed playing with it and
cos im feeling incredibly verbose this morning
i have a story to share that touched me
how it relates im not sure
for all i know it may not
& i promise i will never ever take up this much time & space again :eek:
(will somebody take the microphone offa her - PLEEEEEEaZe)

a path with heart story :music:
there is a tribe in east africa in which the art of true intimacy is fostered even before birth. in this tribe, the birth date of a child is not counted from the day of its physical birth nor even the day of conception. for this tribe the birth date comes the first time the child is a thought of in its mothers mind. aware of her intention to concieve a child with a particular father, she goes off alone to sit & listen, until she can hear the song of the child she hopes for. once heard, she returns to the father and teaches him the childs song so they can sing it together as they make love, inviting the child to join them. after the child is concieved they sing it to the baby in her womb, then they teach it to the old women and midwives so throughout the labour and miraculous moment of birth itself, the child is greeted with its song. after the birth all the villagers learn the song of their new member and sing it to the child when ever it hurts. it is sung in times of triumph, or in rituals and initiations. this song becomes a part of the uniting ceremony of love when the child is grown and at the end of its life, his or her loved ones will gather aroud the death bed and sing this one and only song, for the last time. :music:

debbi_carr
12-09-2004, 06:55 PM
always knowing how to hit the core.

i wish i knew. ego maybe? someone to tell me something i like to hear other than myself and my man?

debbi_carr
12-09-2004, 06:57 PM
and you miss Molly?

debbi_carr
12-09-2004, 07:04 PM
I thought it might be an interestingly thought-provoking, self-considering question but I guess it wasn't that much fun, eh?

Smile - I didn't want to skew individual interpretations of the question

I posted artworks here initially because I was new to the internet and to discussion forums and it was just so neat and rather exciting to see my own renderings on the world wide web! A totally different experience than real life for some reason.

I also found that seen from "a distance" so to speak, I could nail problems/ small niggling things, areas that didn't make sense, etc. For some reason, cyberspace (and being open to a universe of "eyes", ) gives the work some kind of psychological distance, removes the "attachment" to the work in terms of seeing it in a hyper-critical way.

never mind. i just read this. :)

mame
12-09-2004, 07:17 PM
debbi - :wink2:

ashling - you've piqued my curiosity and interest re your delightful story.
I'd like to pursue this further/do a little research. Do you know the name of the tribe? How did you come to know this story?

ashling
12-09-2004, 08:23 PM
ashling - you've piqued my curiosity and interest re your delightful story.
I'd like to pursue this further/do a little research. Do you know the name of the tribe? How did you come to know this story?

as far as i no its just a story
told by a beautiful story teller
jack kornfield in a book called
a path with heart
its taken from & used in
a book called love & survival by
dean ornish md which explores
the physiological healing power of intimacy
nothing to do with romantic love
thank goodness

if you do find anything concrete
i'd be delighted to share in it
cheers :)

Mirek Sledz
12-10-2004, 05:28 AM
Because here is best cybercommunity on the world :)

somerset
12-10-2004, 06:17 AM
Initially, I posted stuff here to learn as I am completely unschooled. Huge mistake on my part as there are so many truly gifted people here; some who evolve faster than mutants, others who do pretty much the same type of work but perfect that work with each finished piece.
I lack the __________ to learn in this kind of environment but it is thrilling.

mame
12-10-2004, 10:14 AM
Initially, I posted stuff here to learn as I am completely unschooled. Huge mistake on my part as there are so many truly gifted people here; some who evolve faster than mutants, others who do pretty much the same type of work but perfect that work with each finished piece.
I lack the __________ to learn in this kind of environment but it is thrilling.

Mr., all you lack is a little self-confidence :wink2:

debbi_carr
12-10-2004, 01:25 PM
OMG ashling! I may not have ever heard a story as beautiful as that one. Thank you so much. Please tell me which tribe this is. Thank you. I have been so sad for a while now and i think you might have re-ignited my spark.

deborah.

debbi_carr
12-10-2004, 01:33 PM
Please tell me which tribe this is. Thank you. I have been so sad for a while now and i think you might have re-ignited my spark.

deborah.

so it's made up? Too late anyway, it already cheered me up. Heh heh.

MountainSong
12-10-2004, 02:46 PM
Ashling that is an amazing and touching story thanks you for telling and sharing it with us all.

Without thinking too deeply about this Id say its a bit of the things everyone else has said, quite a bunch of what you and Bisco said, and one other little not so little thing Energy.
This forum is like a creative well of energy and we - a tribe of people with a well in the center of the village.
We come to the well every morning, visually take what we need for the day, exchange a good word or two, tell a joke, give some advice, kiss the new baby, perhaps pull the bucket up for another villager who needs a hand, hug a neighbor whos low on energy, welcome a stranger to town. Embrace each others work, critique it, and revel in each others growth and success, exchange ideas, inspirations, techniques, information, and news of other artist out in the RT world. This is where artistic temperaments and odd quarks are understood and accepted. Here we walk the artistic pathway together and here we draw from the well of creativity and renew our energy.
This is the fabled village artist have always dreamed of the artist commune, the haven of creative retreat and exchange.
That which has been built before on little pieces of land in foreign countries at different times in history has come together in one single address, accessible globally to artist at large, this village is everywhere and no where, it is real and emotionally moving yet not tangible. It could have existed in no other time - it is the art village for our times.
Its machinations of fiber optics, binary code, coded packets of information moving at the speed of light are as mysterious as the firings of creativity. The EtherNet is as mysterious and wonderful as the creative process is what a perfect blending of creative technology and artistic creativity! Where else but here could so much vision come together? Its visionary and sparkling and crackling with raw energy. Where else would I be? Where else would any of us Want to be?

*L* :) *Stepping down off the podium now, looking a little sheepish for having not being more succinct*

WeiQi
12-10-2004, 03:12 PM
Beautifully said, MS!


When I started posting here it was for
- critique;
- ALL kinds of comments (learned that lack of comments is a result too);
- critique;
- encouragement;
- critique;
- detachment from the painting after it's posted... that too. Discovered it along the way, it's so very helpful;
- critique

The funny thing that happens to me now is that I finish a painting, think for a moment about posting it here, and then: "Nah, it (the painting) is not worth it, I'll be waisting people's time, already can see the weak parts. Maybe the next one." And so it goes... :D

Gar
12-10-2004, 03:51 PM
I post it all for you Molly. :wink2:

Tamana
12-10-2004, 07:31 PM
[...]

and even when i myself am not
active, i'm always lurking on these pages
enjoying the fresh work in our little
dungeon down here.....


I really miss your posts, o4.


Songbird; Beautifully said and spot on. A village with tribe members from all over the world coming together as yet another tribe of tolerance and acceptance regarding differences. Art is the perfect conduit of communication for learning another's language.

WeiQi; And here I thought you'd just been too busy to paint. :|

Somerset; good to see you back around.

wiscojaydub
12-10-2004, 08:44 PM
Dang mon! It is fun and inspirational and you meet people from all over da world..whut more can an artists ask for..whooohooo! :D jaydub :clap: :clap: :wave:

PALudeking
12-10-2004, 10:47 PM
Whut He said....

mame
12-11-2004, 08:03 AM
An interesting take on judging artwork

http://www.biddingtons.com/content/investing.html

ashling
12-11-2004, 08:53 AM
OMG ashling! I may not have ever heard a story as beautiful as that one. Thank you so much. Please tell me which tribe this is. Thank you. I have been so sad for a while now and i think you might have re-ignited my spark.

deborah.

that the story is true or not really real
makes no difference to me deb
the idea sure has potential
and just the thort of it has colored your day :D

MountainSong
12-11-2004, 03:16 PM
An interesting take on judging artwork

Yes, But what does it MEAN??!

WeiQi
12-11-2004, 03:22 PM
Thanks for the link mame!
Yes, a very interesting point of view. Need to think about it...

Tam, I've been painting all this time :), not as much as i'd like though.

ashling, when a story is told - it becomes real :)

mame
12-11-2004, 03:48 PM
Yes, But what does it MEAN??!

I have no idea :wink2:

or........as the relativists would have it - what ever you want it to :rolleyes:

debbi_carr
12-11-2004, 04:54 PM
i think that PPP test is at least a little true...i can't think of another reason why i would dislike pop art as much as i do. but that's just my take.

it'sALLart
12-11-2004, 06:34 PM
well... i used to post here more often and now less. but when i do it's mostly onna counta i wanted to get a reality check, to see if people see what i see, or see the flaws i saw or even get a good solid critique (rarely happens, tho) instead a love-fest (which happens all too often) and then get out my sword and shield and defend the work (if i can) and maybe a tiny little bit of ego stroke in an otherwise cold, heartless world where my work might not even get a second glance or a chance. at least here, it's gets a first one. and that's pretty cool.

and when you say "here" do you mean here on WC or do you mean here in the abstract/contemp forum? 'cause there's a whole big diff. between 'em... and when it comes to critique, it's really hard to critique abstract, don't ya think? i mean, it's all so subjective, versus, "hey, that cow looks all wrong" in the reality forums like landscape where if the cow looks wrong, it's just plain wrong, whereas in this forum, the cow looking wrong is probably a good idea.... does that make sense or am i just in need of more rest?

"Nurse!?".... "nurse!!"....

mame
12-11-2004, 07:27 PM
I meant here particularly in the Ab/Contemp Forum but certainly could be here at WC generally too.

That's an interesting question - which forum and why?

Re Critiques of abstract works -

I would submit that visual literacy/ basic elements of design/cannons of art apply whatever the genre i.e., the SAME criteria apply whether realism, expressionism, abstract, etc.

Tamana
12-11-2004, 07:35 PM
Tam, I've been painting all this time :), not as much as i'd like though.



Prove it. :cat:

:angel:

it'sALLart
12-12-2004, 07:02 AM
[/QUOTE:mame]I would submit that visual literacy/ basic elements of design/cannons of art apply whatever the genre i.e., the SAME criteria apply whether realism, expressionism, abstract, etc.[/QUOTE]

but IMO, those criteria are all extremely subjective as well... so many schools of thought...but i guess you have to start somewhere, as long as any given group of people can agree with a specific group of criteria, but this is a pretty diverse group. there were many statements on that biddingtons link that i did not agree with at all, btw.

i tend to go with my gut (which is influenced by years of food and booze), even tho i know that of which you speak. when a work is nothing but smears of color or scatalogical flingings, there's not much visual literacy going on for me... even tho some would say there is... but then you'd have to know what the artist was thinking and thats where the whole ship starts sinking, because work should stand on it's own without certain knowledge...IMO.

but we digress, as usual. :)

i post my wilder stuff here because the acrylic folks, nice as they are, don't seem to "get" abstract. i post my more tame landscapey things in acrylic forum because the contemp group is more into abstract and it doesnt seem to fit here. i don't do the landscape forum any more because there's some gigantic egos running that forum and i get tired of long-winded, self-agrandizing blather.

speaking of blather, i better stop now lest i fall into the same pattern.

Lynxes123
12-12-2004, 07:05 AM
That is a really good question and a person may have to dig deep to answer it. I feel an energy when painting or drawing something (or even looking at something I like and want to paint). When I saw the wc website I felt drawn to communicating with others with the same interests and I like the people in Abstract contemporay forum the best :D . I really don't know if i have much talent except from what some in my family tell me, posting my paintings here for objective eyes to look at gives me feedback (a little scary) and tells me if it's yucky or blah or looks good.

mame
12-12-2004, 09:21 AM
itsALLart -

Yup. It's a condundrum - PostModernism-ly speaking.

What is art and how do you know?
Then there's the sticky-wicket of judgments of "good".

The seeking of/getting to understanding is in the making I suspect........and I suspect it takes a lifetime.

But.......Art is first and foremost an IDEA......and so, particular ideas form the foundation/cement of it - unless of course you take the easy way out, i.e., everything/anything is art (which paradoxically = nothing is art)

Elements:
color
line
mass
movement
space
texture
value

Principles (a few):
balance
contrast
direction
emphasis
proportion
rhythm
unity

just gabbin' this morning. Take with a grain of salt and/or ignore me.

ashling
12-12-2004, 10:07 AM
you make a lot of sense
for some one who gabbs on :p
keep it coming

it'sALLart
12-12-2004, 11:15 PM
The seeking of/getting to understanding is in the making I suspect........and I suspect it takes a lifetime.



ah, mame, you are one smart cookie! just when i was wondering if someone was going to talk about the importance of process.... you nail it. and you're right... about 4 years ago or so i began to see that process is the real art and end results either pay off or don't as "art"... only took me about 25 years to get that much. btw, my co. name is more about lifestyle (i.e. traditional japanese culture and the fact that so much of how they lived was basically an art) than the visual medium per se but sometimes other conclusions are drawn for obvious reasons...


Elements:
color
line
mass
movement
space
texture
value

Principles (a few):
balance
contrast
direction
emphasis
proportion
rhythm
unity




but here again, we'd all have to agree on definition of the above... that's what makes it all so interesting. we all usually don't, and maybe that's OK, or else there would be no diversity. which i have to have. reminds me of a friend of mine's joke that has irony that i love:

I like my diversity better than yours. :)

cheers!

keith

WV.Artistry
12-13-2004, 06:40 AM
something of closure
something of distance
something of contributing
something of ego
something of a reality check
something of a yell
something of a whisper
:D

WV.Artistry
12-13-2004, 06:41 AM
Let the church bells ring.

I shouted to heaven, "God sing to me . .
before I am deaf, and
can't hear a thing
but whispers of -- thy will be done."

I'm waiting for silence,
to come meet me now at the gate.

Waiting for silence,
to come greet me with her embrace.

mame
12-13-2004, 07:38 AM
itsAll - was just reading about "words" and how inherent in them is memory.
heavy stuff and still absorbing it.....really intriguing. Art is a language. How do you speak it if you don't know the vocabulary?

But I digress -

For those interested - a bit of an historical perspective re Process Art

Robert Morris
Eva Hesse
Robert Smithson
Richard Serra
Bruce Nauman

it'sALLart
12-13-2004, 08:27 AM
is that a rhetorical question?

:)


Everybody finds their own way, with or without influence. Some speak eloquent and perfect sentences, others in a series of gutteral yelps and clicks. Sometimes I wonder which is more interesting to hear...

mame
12-13-2004, 08:36 AM
ah..........itsAll, but there can be no form without content nor can one AVOID influence.

Say "shape" and try to think of nothing............ :wink2:

PS thinking about the influence of one's own experience......gotta work that out :p

PPS - where's mucharistotleness when I need him?

it'sALLart
12-13-2004, 08:55 AM
nor can one AVOID influence.


:cool:

salmon
12-13-2004, 01:34 PM
I haven't posted for a while now. After a brief period of creativity I now find myself in a slump that I can't get out of. I no longer know what is good or what is bad art. I've looked at so much in the past, I think I've got to the stage where I simply hate it all now. The thought of picking up a brush revolts me.

I wish I was one of those artists who just knocks out the same old tired stuff time after time. Trying to be original and innovative hurts like hell and I don't like it. How can creativity be so bloody painful?

WeiQi
12-13-2004, 02:27 PM
Maybe I have all those terms skewed in my head...
imho, _art_ happens when a viewer sees a painting. Or doesn't happen :)
The idea, the process, the final result, the lifetime of searching for answers - they just lead to this precious brief moment of understanding (or, again, a blank stare).
We may love the process, we may hate it, we may think it's art, but without somebody actually seeing the final thing - it's not complete.

MountainSong
12-13-2004, 03:36 PM
Salmon, you just summed up the experience of Burn Out. You've reached terminal satiation with art. Or as Leonardo Di Vince would say, "The brush has left me."

No doubt you've earned your break. So take it. When art is ready for you she will call you back.

Hers is a siren call; hauntingly beautiful, mysteriously compelling and totally unavoidable. When she calls you will drop everything and seek her, revel in her, breath, dream, and live for her.
She comes as suddenly and profoundly as she leaves.

For now I think you need another passion - give those creative juices time to rebuild behind the dam. When the reserves build back up and water laps over the spillway you will hear the call of art loud and clear and answer it with a renewed vigor and passion.

Apparently you werent put together to be a technician of art so you cant produce 365 days a year. Thats fine. Work of original brilliance rarely comes from technicians of art anyways. Original and innovative work comes in flashes like a hot searing bolt of lightening those flashes come when the creative juices explode forth from pent up forces.

So embrace your burn out let the right mind rest, and rest some more and then begin to foment with ideas, bubble up with creativity hold it down till its ready to explode then answer the sirens call! :)

Bisco
12-13-2004, 08:46 PM
Say "shape" and try to think of nothing


I love these threads.. but I havent a clue why...
What you all are doing (pictures/whatever) is so a part of you and the things you ponder. I dont know if I should envy you or quit. Its like tasting madness. Sticky wiggly madness.

WeiQi
01-15-2005, 10:48 PM
An interesting take on judging artwork

http://www.biddingtons.com/content/investing.html

Still thinking about this Personal-Past-Present test...
(yeah, I'm a slow thinker :)) And about another article from the same site (European vs. American art). Had a feeling that it was coming from somewhere... well, else. This all was bugging me for a while. Got tons of wonderful books for Christmas (Yesssss! thanks Santa, good Santa, smart Santa). And here we go:

"... (1) Every artist, as a creator, has something in him which calls for expression (this is the element of personality). (2) Every artist, as a child of his age, is impelled to express the spirit of his age (this is the element of style) - dictated by the period and particular country to which the artist belongs (it is doubtful how long the latter distinction will continue to exist). (3) Every artist, as a servant of art, has to help the cause of the art (this is the element of pure artistry, which is constant in all ages and among all nationalities).
......
In the past and even today much talk is heard of "personality" in art. Talk of the coming "style" becomes more frequent daily. But for all their importance today, these questions will have disappeared after a few hundred or thousand years.
Only the third element - that of pure artistry - will remain for ever. An Egyptian carving speaks to us today more subtly than it did to its chronological contemporaries; for they judged it with the hampering knowledge of period and personality. But we can judge purely as an expression of the eternal artistry.
Similarly - the greater the part played in a modern work of art by the two elements of style and personality, the better it will be appreciated by people today; but a modern work of art which is full of the third element, will fail to reach the contemporary soul. For many centuries have to pass away before the third element can be received with understanding..."
W. Kandinsky "Concerning the Spiritual in Art"

it'sALLart
01-18-2005, 08:58 AM
had some more thoughts on this...
after reading (and commenting) on those "other" threads about this forum, and thinking about some reactions to same, i'm wondering if there's a way to post work so that:

1. if you want constructive crit, ask for it

2. if you want only praise, say so

3. if you want no comments, say so

4. if you are ok with being slammed, say so

5. perhaps something in the post to say what level you are at as an artist... i.e. painter for 2 years, hobbyist, dillitante, poseur, etc... (ok, just kidding about those last two...)

i think there's some confusion on that point because beginners should not be subjected to the same level of crit that pros should be or at least it should be taken into consideration where someones proficiency level is.

before anyone gets their panties all bunched, by "pros" i mean either long time painters (5 years or more) or those who paint (or do some other kind of art related thing) for their living and have for at least that long... it's the same criteria that many grant foundations have. some grants are even harsher: NO STUDENTS, you must be a professional working artist for 10 years, etc, etc. I wouldnt want it to be that harsh, but you get my drift... to subject someone who is in that fragile beginner state to the same level of crit as a seasoned painter is probably not fair, IMO.

There used to be more to the posting form (ie. "no digital manipulation" and "size and medium", "comments on work" , etc.... ) but the heads of state got rid of it for some reason. I rather liked it because it allowed an organized, consistant way of posting. (maybe it's still on the crit thread and i just aint been there lately.)

Anyway, just wondered if we were more clear about who we are and what we're seeking when we post - and thus what we're responding to as critics - then perhaps we'd get better responses all the way around and the question "why do you post your artwork here?" would be better answered overall.

i'll pledge to be clearer when i post my work from now on. :)

whaddya say, mame? thoughts?

Fagan
01-18-2005, 09:36 AM
Salmon....I don't know if you are still reading these posts. I too had a burnout...I know exactly what you are saying. It lasted almost two years and one husband. I had no desire to even look at my paints or brushes. If I saw a painting I was not enthused with desire to paint. Oddly enough after the first year I had almost forgotten that I had had 15 years of painting behind me. I think of that now with wonder.

But one day I was talking on the phone and it was a very boring call. I started "doodling" and I saw a pattern that I found very pleasing. I started to enlarge it and add more to the design. Next I thought it would really look kewl with color instead of black and white. That is what started me on my Contemporary Southwest themes in 1998. I have been painting ever since. I divorced my first husband left my homestate of Oklahoma for a new husband and Indiana. I am now painting full time. *LOL* I look back on those two non painting years with gratitude. I did not realize it...but I was formulating the rest of my life.
Sorry this is so long....but Salmon you will paint again. Just take this resting period to re-group.

I post my artwork here because I need a mirror.

sherina
01-18-2005, 10:14 AM
had some more thoughts on this...
after reading (and commenting) on those "other" threads about this forum, and thinking about some reactions to same, i'm wondering if there's a way to post work so that:

1. if you want constructive crit, ask for it

2. if you want only praise, say so

3. if you want no comments, say so

4. if you are ok with being slammed, say so

5. perhaps something in the post to say what level you are at as an artist... i.e. painter for 2 years, hobbyist, dillitante, poseur, etc... (ok, just kidding about those last two...)

i think there's some confusion on that point because beginners should not be subjected to the same level of crit that pros should be or at least it should be taken into consideration where someones proficiency level is.

before anyone gets their panties all bunched, by "pros" i mean either long time painters (5 years or more) or those who paint (or do some other kind of art related thing) for their living and have for at least that long... it's the same criteria that many grant foundations have. some grants are even harsher: NO STUDENTS, you must be a professional working artist for 10 years, etc, etc. I wouldnt want it to be that harsh, but you get my drift... to subject someone who is in that fragile beginner state to the same level of crit as a seasoned painter is probably not fair, IMO.

There used to be more to the posting form (ie. "no digital manipulation" and "size and medium", "comments on work" , etc.... ) but the heads of state got rid of it for some reason. I rather liked it because it allowed an organized, consistant way of posting. (maybe it's still on the crit thread and i just aint been there lately.)

Anyway, just wondered if we were more clear about who we are and what we're seeking when we post - and thus what we're responding to as critics - then perhaps we'd get better responses all the way around and the question "why do you post your artwork here?" would be better answered overall.

i'll pledge to be clearer when i post my work from now on. :)

whaddya say, mame? thoughts?
Hello Itsallart, I agree with just about everything you've said. I think in the begining I came here to see what others thought of my work as a self-taught pastelist who still considers herself an amateur, but also to have an open dialogue with people whom I considered to be professionals. I also wanted to try and compare my work with others to see what skill level I might be at, especially considering I have no formal academic training. As a matter of fact I'm not sure what category my work falls into I hear abstract, contemporary, expressionism. I would certainly like a definitive description. I would love a critique from you, don't worry I'm pretty thick skinned. Now it's time to place my order, and I'll have one of all of the above, thank you sir. Te! he! he! :wave:

peaced
01-18-2005, 12:22 PM
Here's my take on your question --
I have to answer another question first... why do i do art in the first place? For me the process of doing art is almost a zen moment that can sometimes extend for months... i get lost in something other than my own arrogance and control over the world for a little while and get to live totally in the moment. Art is one of the few places i can safely achieve that (oftentimes a good bottle of wine produces the same sensation.... but too many of those is not so healthy and meditation only puts me to sleep). So.. i "do" art because it just feels so good.

Once the piece is done... well, it's just done. I'm left with this silly little thing that came from my head and my hand that has only my own subjective relativity to the rest of the world. What now? I'm drained, paint bespotted, and tired of contemplating my own inner workings. Now i want to interact... i want to live someone else's moment... be in someone else's shoes... see what someone else sees in this world. So i put my art out there as a place to start a conversation. I suppose it's an ice-breaker really a way of saying I dont have the right words to express how I feel so see if this will explain it. Have you ever felt this?... What was your experience?

I then post in this forum because its members appear to be comfortable with using the metaphors that art produces as a tool for figuring our how to live in this world. There is an unspoken language here that I speak and connect with and all of the rosarch (sp?) blots that others post help me figure out my world a little better so that I can have a little more patience with the inhibiting infidels I have to interact with on a day to day basis.

Reading back over this... perhaps i should stick with the brush... words just don't work as well in my hands i think. Do ya'll ever get so frustrated you could just spit because what you WANT you mouth to say and what ends up coming out bear no resemblance to one another at all?
:confused:

it'sALLart
01-18-2005, 12:26 PM
I came here to see what others thought of my work as a self-taught pastelist who still considers herself an amateur, but also to have an open dialogue with people whom I considered to be professionals.


I went thru your posts but didn't find any artwork posted... so, that being said, I went to your site and looked there... since you havn't posted any art on WC, I'll send you a PVT to crit your pastels instead of doing here because others can't see the work here anyway....

an invoice will be forthcoming. :evil: j/k

sherina
01-18-2005, 04:01 PM
I went thru your posts but didn't find any artwork posted... so, that being said, I went to your site and looked there... since you havn't posted any art on WC, I'll send you a PVT to crit your pastels instead of doing here because others can't see the work here anyway....

an invoice will be forthcoming. :evil: j/k
Hello It'sAllart, no your mistaken I have posted on other forums. Thanks for the critque I enjoyed it and thought is was very enlightnening and educational, but I must tell you that I love color and the more the merrier. I told you I wasn't thin skinned! Send me that invoice you deserve every red nickel. LOL! :wink2:

mame
02-25-2005, 09:03 AM
:wink2:

Jet
02-25-2005, 11:02 AM
WHY? WhY ? wHy do I POST my artwork at this forum?... :wink2: ....mmhhmm?

After reading the WHOLE thread...pant, pant...I see my own answer in many posts....
I've seen some posts with interesting answers and others quite confusing too..lol..
I tried to understand those who answered off topic, and some just like my kids and friends do , when I ask them:
who wants to go to church ? and, -at least-, half of them, yell...I don't.. :confused: and I ask again ..who DOES want to go ?...LOL...
Oh, well, I like to have fun too...yuk, yuk... :D
Yikes ...I am babbling here, too ...sorry...
______
OK, after my nutty disertation here's my answer..

I just have posted my first couple of works 2 days ago..

I believe that when I display my works in a forum, are for:
- sharing tecniques
- receiving comments, suggestions, accurate nit-picking

I believe forums as WC (free of charge) ARE NOT for:
- showing off
- going berzerk after critiques
- denying info on works
- fooling fellow artists by posting digital works in analog-media-dedicated forums..

You are free to ask, comment, critique,nit-pick, satanize, spit, kick and swear, to any of my works;
But never, ever, to my person (that is my wife's biz and noone else's).. :D
My comments are always addressed to the work in question, and all my comments are what I truly feel about that specific piece of work..It IS NOT about 'the person'...
I might be looking at a lame, crappy, worthless piece of work , done by an excellent honorable human being..
We are not our works..Our works are not US..Please don't get 'em mixed up..

I guess I have covered mostly everyangle of my weird personality here....
wish you the best ..

Kind Regards
:cool:

debbi_carr
02-25-2005, 11:10 AM
We are not our works..Our works are not US..Please don't get 'em mixed up..



i must be mixed up.

Jet
02-25-2005, 12:01 PM
... and when it comes to critique, it's really hard to critique abstract, don't ya think? i mean, it's all so subjective, versus, "hey, that cow looks all wrong" in the reality forums like landscape where if the cow looks wrong, it's just plain wrong, whereas in this forum, the cow looking wrong is probably a good idea.... does that make sense or am i just in need of more rest?

"Nurse!?".... "nurse!!"....

Nurse! , make that two...LOL..just kidding..
It all makes sense alright !!

It's funny, when I told some of my buddies I was about to post at this forum (abstract), their reaction was : Oh! you don't want get critiques anymore? and ..Awh! did you find realistic work too much for you?...
..At first, I didn't get it, but after giving it some thought (and asking around about the meaning) and it hit me!!
they think that ANY work that doesn't make the grade, does automatically qualify as Abstract work.....yikes !! I happen to think the opposite..I hadn't dared posting because my works didn't have enough 'meaning' to express someting in a condensed or abstract fashion...not that I feel my work is far out really, I am aware that it is not even 'fair out' ...LOL.. :D
But I had to take the challenge and go through the rookie phase, with all the ups and downs ...at least I feel that I can take it and think I have enough experience to understand what the critique is about and the minimum amount of skill to be able to 'fix' it afterwards...

That is very important, for a newbie or rookie, as very often, the rookie goes berzerk for not understanding the nature of the critique and/or doesn't have the power/skill to understand enough to be able to pinpoint the flaws, so it can be fixed accordingly...

I agree too, it's hard to critique abstract art, but again --I have posted really rookie's work at the figure forum and received critiques accordingly..I had expected that, so it was no surprise at all, as at that forum are some of the best artists I have seen around WC, plenty of those being real 'droolers'..slurp ..ahemm!
But , suddenly I see the classic gesture scribbling drawings getting lots of praises, and I thought mmmhmmm that's great abstrract work but not real realistic figure drawings... :confused: I guess that my bird brain wasn't ready to know the difference...just yet...

On the other hand...I ve done my share of abstract work in my specialty :
Darkroom special effects, and In-camera trickery, way back in the 80's..

see if I can catch up with this forum's art Masters, soon enough...meanwhile I am having fun going through OOOLd threads, looking at beautiful stuff and funny critiques also..LOL..

Have a nice day... :wave:

Even If It Rains
02-25-2005, 01:19 PM
i must be mixed up.

When our art DOES become us we have reached perfection IMHO.

Matt

Jet
02-25-2005, 02:30 PM
When our art DOES become us we have reached perfection IMHO.

Matt

Thank God I am not there yet...

I respect all tastes and degrees of appreciation , as I've been there zillions of times..
Since my youth around the late 70's early 80's, that elder people said nasty things about my manipulated photos -not digitally, yet-
I did all types of developments, used to mix my own, even worked with potassium ferricyanide -a deadly and poisonous stuff that killed many photographers in the early days of photography...

So, to me, my art pieces are just my time-stamps-printings, and, -as a former cook- I love cooking a state of the art dish, but don't get too attached to it as I know that sooner or later it will be turned to ~beep~...LOL...

I am not my dishes, and I am not my art pieces, they just have the best I could give to them at that time/space, and they will serve as stepping stones for getting to do better works the next time around...

No rights or wrongs, it's just, that's how I honestly feel about it; so feel confident to go heavy on the critiques, comments and suggestions, and no offense will be ever taken..promise... :)

Kind Regards

sarahbellum
02-25-2005, 06:45 PM
Sometimes I feel guilty for NOT posting my work.

I have a reason, though--I have learned the hard way to only ask for critiques from people whose opinions I trust. Though there are many people here whose opinions I value highly, there are some few who are a little too willing to belittle thoughtlessly, or who confuse stating their personal tastes and opinions with critiquing. And I am too willing to pay attention to them.

Also, I tend to subtly change what I do to please other people's tastes. I am in the process of breaking out of some old ways of doing things, and I am still in an experimental stage. So for now, anyway, I won't post.

Well, that and my kid took off with the scanner. :D

Sarah

Mary Woodul
02-25-2005, 07:23 PM
I haven't posted here for a while but I love to.

Why?.......to read people like you Ashling and learn from people like you mame, and others that I won't mention because I wouldn't want to leave anyone out that I would include. :wave:

Jet
02-25-2005, 07:59 PM
Well, that and my kid took off with the scanner. :D

Sarah

Sara, Hi!
You're welcome to post when you feel comfortable... :) .....
Hey ! watch that kiddo is running away.!!!....http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Feb-2005/27782-SK.jpg

..LOL...Sorry , it just kept flashing in my head for a while...LOL...

Regards

bbbilly1326
02-25-2005, 10:57 PM
a path with heart story :music:
there is a tribe in east africa in which the art of true intimacy is fostered even before birth. in this tribe, the birth date of a child is not counted from the day of its physical birth nor even the day of conception. for this tribe the birth date comes the first time the child is a thought of in its mothers mind. aware of her intention to concieve a child with a particular father, she goes off alone to sit & listen, until she can hear the song of the child she hopes for. once heard, she returns to the father and teaches him the childs song so they can sing it together as they make love, inviting the child to join them. after the child is concieved they sing it to the baby in her womb, then they teach it to the old women and midwives so throughout the labour and miraculous moment of birth itself, the child is greeted with its song. after the birth all the villagers learn the song of their new member and sing it to the child when ever it hurts. it is sung in times of triumph, or in rituals and initiations. this song becomes a part of the uniting ceremony of love when the child is grown and at the end of its life, his or her loved ones will gather aroud the death bed and sing this one and only song, for the last time. :music:

what an absolutely beautiful story ! thank you so much, this hit me in a completely different way than most things I read or hear. It makes me realize how superficial and materialistic our culture is, and how little it actually nurtures us or provides a "real" place for us in this world.

I post here because i have no distance from what I do, and need meaningful input that's different from what I might get from most people I know ("What's that red thing?" "How come you painted yourself with no eyeballs?)

I read things here to find out what "real" artists are doing....

chandlerjr
02-26-2005, 12:24 AM
That is a really good question and a person may have to dig deep to answer it. I feel an energy when painting or drawing something (or even looking at something I like and want to paint). When I saw the wc website I felt drawn to communicating with others with the same interests and I like the people in Abstract contemporay forum the best :D . I really don't know if i have much talent except from what some in my family tell me, posting my paintings here for objective eyes to look at gives me feedback (a little scary) and tells me if it's yucky or blah or looks good.

Lynette,
I really liked what you said. Especially, "I feel an energy when painting or drawing something (or even looking at something I like and want to paint). When I saw the wc website I felt drawn to communicating with others with the same interests and I like the people in Abstract contemporay forum the best :D ."

A place for like minded people to help each other grow and communicate what they feel about art.
Larry C.

Tamana
02-26-2005, 09:40 PM
Very interesting question and some good answers. The first thing that came to my mind was from a book I'm rereading from the 80's by Hulda Regehr Clark, Ph.D.,N.D. entitled "Cure For all Diseases". There's a part in there where she describes her early college years regarding the discovery of a "life force" called "elan vitale" centuries ago by European scientists who were "scorned out of existence (and out of jobs). She says, and I feel it quite applicable in for this question as well;

Young scientists, (including myself) were systematically taught to scorn this idea. Of course we were also taught that a good scientist was unemotional, does not scorn ideas, has a completely open mind, and does not rule something out until it is disproved to their satisfaction. The youthfulness of college years is so susceptible to prejudices of all kinds, and the desire for acceptance is so great, that special effort needs to be made to teach neutrality. Or at least to distinquish between emotion and fact. Where have these basic pedagogic principles gone? I was indeed inspired with the phrase 'search for the truth' but then promptly led down the path of 'search for acceptance.'

I have to wonder if some posting here are searching for some type of acceptance...

debbi_carr
02-27-2005, 01:07 AM
I have to wonder if some posting here are searching for some type of acceptance...


i think so.
but i also think that searching for acceptance is a direct result of immaturity...maybe one who is very new at creating. i personally am no stranger to that feeling...i can't say that it has ever overwhelmed me or consumed me...but it is familiar nonetheless. you can either choose to get over self-consciousness or you can remain that way...i chose to try and get over it...but some might not make that choice...i don't think it's that far-fetched or unnatural for one who is new at something to search for acceptance. i do think it is crippling to remain that way.

reynolds
02-27-2005, 02:00 AM
as a therapist, i would say it is more about
developing a relationship with the part of
us that has needs and working with it in such a way
that we become comfortable with our bumps,
blemishes and beauty inside and out.

even great spiritual leaders have their moments
of doubt and lack of faith... :angel:

Jet
02-27-2005, 02:10 AM
as a therapist, i would say it is more about
developing a relationship with the part of
us that has needs and working with it in such a way
that we become comfortable with our bumps,
blemishes and beauty inside and out.


Rennie, Hi!
I love how you have said -in a few words- what I haven't been able to tell in 1000 posts ...LOL..

Kind Regards
:cool:

Tamana
02-27-2005, 10:18 AM
Very interesting question and some good answers. The first thing that came to my mind was from a book I'm rereading from the 80's by Hulda Regehr Clark, Ph.D.,N.D. entitled "Cure For all Diseases".

Oopsa!!! I meant 90's; typo.

Miss Debbi C; I agree.

Renni: I think what triggered this question was a comment made by someone on the "Who's Welcome" thread in reference to not feeling like they were accepted or fit in with the crowd etc. Just got me thinking that our influences are probably more profound than any of us know, even here, especially to those who (like me) are indeed self taught and whose initial introduction into art was, believe it or not, this forum and its participants. I'm just thankful my initial influence was under those who are not only what I consider professionals of their craft; but those who could and would be honest despite how I might perceive such. It was THAT honesty that catapulted me in the right direction and the continued exposure to their work/ethic that kept me on course.

Disclaimer: Not belittling the 'current' influence; just clarifying what MINE was.
:rolleyes:

even great spiritual leaders have their moments
of doubt and lack of faith...

"E-lo'-i, E-lo'-i, la'-ma sa-bach' -tha-ni?"

:)

bbbilly1326
02-27-2005, 12:38 PM
I have to wonder if some posting here are searching for some type of acceptance...

this thread and this particular statement have very recently become relevant for my posts.

being very new to abstract painting (just last Nov in fact), I'm eager to get feedback on what I'm doing.

but now a conflict: the "best" most positive responses here have come from things that I've done in color....HOWEVER, the things I've done in b&w are most dear to me right now.

So I've had to really back off and assess what I'm doing, in favor of MY direction, the direction that feels right to me, rather than the stuff that pleases others.

When I was doing impressionist paintings (like this one, Still Life with Potatoes) it was very important that I like them, but also very important that they conform to an outside standard, of course, and that part of that standard was that others like them.

now, the standards are murkier.....but the painting is more satisfying...all change has its price.

Like I always say: You can't have change without changing....

Tamana
02-27-2005, 01:21 PM
[...]

but now a conflict: the "best" most positive responses here have come from things that I've done in color....HOWEVER, the things I've done in b&w are most dear to me right now.

So I've had to really back off and assess what I'm doing, in favor of MY direction, the direction that feels right to me, rather than the stuff that pleases others.

[...]



I'll try to find something I read once about the fine line between art as 'self' and art as 'art', eg - the true reasonings of creating such (or perhaps someone else knows what I'm talking about). Is it just as difficult to let go of 'art' for the sake of letting it be on its own as it is children or relationships or a treasured possession we hold dear to our heart because we feel insecure and/or inadequate (or even feel the need to protect it/us?) without the association of 'self' to it? Not saying there's not 'self' in ALL art one does, just saying that there comes a time to let go of possession/ego/self and allow the art to stand on its own irrespective of positive/negative reviews.

What am I incoherently saying here? I'm trying to say that when we try to please others via our art...are we really letting art be art? Or, are we protecting it from the scrutiny of others because of something deep within ourselves, like a fear of rejection, etc.? Is some type of fear within something to be conquered before art can truly be free?

I'm wondering how many of us truly do art for the sake of art; and if not -- if THAT is the very thing that hinders us from finding our true voice? Or, rather, 'Art' finding its voice through us...

Like I always say: You can't have change without changing....

ahhhhhhhhh grasshoppahhhhh; wax on/wax off!!!

*bows respectfully*

Even If It Rains
02-27-2005, 04:44 PM
Yeah , Yeah bbbilly and Tamana maybe thats true. BUT. If you have a talent , aren't you in some way obligated to do what others like with it?
What if Michelangelo had painted a load of black lines all over the Sistine chapel ? When asked about it he might just shrug and say " Well I'm just doing what I want" Or he might give up painting all together and go to play the violin really badly. Who could blame for for doing what he wants but it would be a bit of a shame, no ?

Matt

Chey
02-27-2005, 05:15 PM
Why do I post here; its a good question and in spite of thinking about it for some time, one with a fairly complex answer.

I'm an annoying sort of member of WC...I post for a while and then disappear for months at a time before popping back up with another handful of paintings. I lurk more than I comment, mostly because someone else will have said what I would say (and they usually say it more concisely). I try to comment when I have something useful to say.

Since I discovered the forum one thing hasn't changed - I adore looking at what other people create. Its both inspiring and a learning experience - each and every work posted has *something* that I can learn from.

Being self-taught, there is no way around the validation part of the posting experience. I'd also have to agree that the more I paint, the less important it has become to have that outside validation. However, after 2 days at an art fair when the comment 'yeah, but what is it supposed to BE?' is fairly common, coming back to this forum where abstract/contemporary artwork is appreciated is soothing :-)

I also post here because it is a form of visual brainstorming; helpful critique is invaluable, and rare as hen's teeth if you don't have a local network of artists to discuss work.

Tamana wrote:

...What am I incoherently saying here? I'm trying to say that when we try to please others via our art...are we really letting art be art? Or, are we protecting it from the scrutiny of others because of something deep within ourselves, like a fear of rejection, etc.? Is some type of fear within something to be conquered before art can truly be free?

I'm wondering how many of us truly do art for the sake of art; and if not -- if THAT is the very thing that hinders us from finding our true voice? Or, rather, 'Art' finding its voice through us...

I've often said that I would paint if I sold anything or not, and I think it is true. Would my art be different if I wasn't doing it to sell? Once you start marketing your work, I'm not sure its possible to ignore what is and isn't saleable. Without a doubt though, the pieces I like most, the ones that speak to me the most clearly and are the most emotionally satisfying, are the ones I've done simply to reflect a vision in my head. Which might lead to the question of whether wanting to create art is a whole 'nother animal from wanting to make a living as an artist.

Since in my usual fashion this post has gone on far longer than it should have, I'll stop here. Thanks to all for the insights.

bbbilly1326
02-27-2005, 05:34 PM
Yeah , Yeah bbbilly and Tamana maybe thats true. BUT. If you have a talent , aren't you in some way obligated to do what others like with it?

in short: Only if I'm paid :D

I don't market my stuff, that's one of the reasons I can indulge myself with this dilemma. If I had to support myself as an artist, I'd have to do what others pay me to do, essentially, which is what Michelangelo did.

Also, he didn't have the freedom we have today. There was really only a certain way of doing things, or at least a much smaller range of variation was tolerated.

muchfoolishness
02-27-2005, 07:25 PM
the avant-garde can perhaps be defined as the production of deliberately non consumable art - certainly as challenging the values of that which is consumed
i guess you have to ask; to what are you obliged
as a consumer: to consume
as an artist: ?
If you have a talent , aren't you in some way obligated to do what others like with it?

sue ellen
02-27-2005, 07:32 PM
If you have a talent , aren't you in some way obligated to do what others like with it?

absolutely not.....because then you might as well just be a graphic designer.

Even If It Rains
02-27-2005, 08:32 PM
in short: Only if I'm paid :D

I don't market my stuff, that's one of the reasons I can indulge myself with this dilemma. If I had to support myself as an artist, I'd have to do what others pay me to do, essentially, which is what Michelangelo did.

Also, he didn't have the freedom we have today. There was really only a certain way of doing things, or at least a much smaller range of variation was tolerated.

You can GIVE art away to you know :wink2:
Nothing wrong with indulging yourself but is that anymore than just playing with your paint? Will anyone else ever understand it ? Is that important?
I would have problems creating something if I thought no one would ever see it. There is no communication , no giving and recieving.

muchfoolishness
02-27-2005, 08:43 PM
the exchange of ownership adds nothing to the value of art
you may choose that method of defining its value if you choose

what is there to understand?

Even If It Rains
02-27-2005, 08:59 PM
the exchange of ownership adds nothing to the value of art
you may choose that method of defining its value if you choose

what is there to understand?

Value in art is something that I'm always exploring and probably the sole reason for me creating it.
What is there to understand? Nothing , sorry bad choice of words there.

It's ok sometimes I like to play devils advocate just to sort things out in my mind.

minimonkey
02-27-2005, 09:15 PM
I'm on board with the "energy of the painting" thing -- I also find that I am that much more inspired to finish a new piece when I know there is someone to view it. Critique (and yes, praise, too) are a great inspiration to keep working and improving.

This is the first time in my life I've ever endeavoured to produce saleable art -- my dark pastel works are in that "avant-garde, non-consumable" camp for the most part.

MountainSong
02-27-2005, 09:21 PM
Hmmm, lots of thoughts and takes here, heres one more.
I create because I can not stop. If all there is to do it with is two sticks and some mud there will be several hours later be a sculpture. Given a scrap pile of metal and no impending deadlines or commitments I will automatically re-assemble it into a visually pleasing assemblage. Give me a welding torch and LOOK OUT!! *LOL*
Give me a log and I will find something to carve it with, a pile of sea shell and some vine and it will become an elaborate wind chime. Some paper and a pencil there will be drawings or a story in words. Put me for a month in a bare room and I will take the 80 hairs a day that humans loose and spin, ball and weave it into something in all the spare time given to me.
Why? Because it is inherently who I am. Only death or complete paralysis will ever stop me.
I do it for no one, need not an audience or viewers and when Ive finished it Im done with it, and after taking brief satisfaction in a job well done I never need see it again. For it is not the beauty of the finished product that caused it to come into being - but the act of doing it is the act of creating which compels me.
I choose to create because I could not choose otherwise.

ashling
02-27-2005, 09:27 PM
yes yes
the process
of creation
is compelling :D

Hmmm, lots of thoughts and takes here, heres one more.
I create because I can not stop. If all there is to do it with is two sticks and some mud there will be several hours later be a sculpture. Given a scrap pile of metal and no impending deadlines or commitments I will automatically re-assemble it into a visually pleasing assemblage. Give me a welding torch and LOOK OUT!! *LOL*
Give me a log and I will find something to carve it with, a pile of sea shell and some vine and it will become an elaborate wind chime. Some paper and a pencil there will be drawings or a story in words. Put me for a month in a bare room and I will take the 80 hairs a day that humans loose and spin, ball and weave it into something in all the spare time given to me.
Why? Because it is inherently who I am. Only death or complete paralysis will ever stop me.
I do it for no one, need not an audience or viewers and when Ive finished it Im done with it, and after taking brief satisfaction in a job well done I never need see it again. For it is not the beauty of the finished product that caused it to come into being - but the act of doing it is the act of creating which compels me.
I choose to create because I could not choose otherwise.

Lynxes123
02-27-2005, 09:50 PM
Hmmm, lots of thoughts and takes here, heres one more.
I create because I can not stop. If all there is to do it with is two sticks and some mud there will be several hours later be a sculpture. Given a scrap pile of metal and no impending deadlines or commitments I will automatically re-assemble it into a visually pleasing assemblage. Give me a welding torch and LOOK OUT!! *LOL*
Give me a log and I will find something to carve it with, a pile of sea shell and some vine and it will become an elaborate wind chime. Some paper and a pencil there will be drawings or a story in words. Put me for a month in a bare room and I will take the 80 hairs a day that humans loose and spin, ball and weave it into something in all the spare time given to me.
Why? Because it is inherently who I am. Only death or complete paralysis will ever stop me.
I do it for no one, need not an audience or viewers and when Ive finished it Im done with it, and after taking brief satisfaction in a job well done I never need see it again. For it is not the beauty of the finished product that caused it to come into being - but the act of doing it is the act of creating which compels me.
I choose to create because I could not choose otherwise.
Great post MountainSong dear. I understand every word you wrote. I've have that same compelling urge to draw, paint, doodle since I was little girl. Whether I can sell them or not or just stack them on a shelf (what I usually do), I always am happiest with a brush and paint at hand, and that even goes for painting the walls, LOL. :clap:

bbbilly1326
02-27-2005, 10:20 PM
You can GIVE art away to you know :wink2:
Nothing wrong with indulging yourself but is that anymore than just playing with your paint? Will anyone else ever understand it ? Is that important?
I would have problems creating something if I thought no one would ever see it. There is no communication , no giving and recieving.

well, for years I did portraits, on which I worked for months, and gave them away to friends and colleagues, and was paid for some of them. However, I also found that I felt at loose ends when painting if I didn't have someone to "do one for," very different attitude from what MS and others are saying.

So MY dilemma, which perhaps is not the "typical" artist's dilemma, right now, is finding whether I have a personal artistic vision that feels right for me to follow, RATHER THAN, painting for others.

I don't think I've made this clear before. I think it's partly why I stopped painting for 3 years --there was no one interested in my paintings, and I lost interest too. But partly it was also out of loss of interest in impressionistic painting generally.

Now with this abstract stuff, it's important for me to do it out of my own artistic impulse, not to get praise and validation from others, though it really feels good to get that too, which is one of the reasons I post here. The other of course is to get some guidance on how what I'm doing is perceived by others in whatever way.

These discussions are helping me to redefine what I want from my painting...thanks.

bestof
02-28-2005, 11:58 AM
Attention whoring.

I also haven't shown any work (in real life) for over a year and I suppose showing it online is a substitute for that. Maybe not a good one, because it's hard to feel a four foot painting on a tiny computer screen, but it's something. I really want to make a living from my painting and I geuss in the back of my mind I'm hoping this will somehow lead to that.

minimonkey
02-28-2005, 12:50 PM
Wow, I wish I had a little more of what Mountainsong described!

I'm in a period right now where every spare moment I can scrounge, I am either on here or at my easel.... but this is following an artistic dry spell of nearly 6 years!!! A lot of that is because I went back to school and did two undergraduate degrees, then a grad degree, and that was taking up a lot of my time and energy-- that, and I was living in a 275 square-foot SRO, and barely had space for the essentials of living, but still....


I went through something like Bbbilly described -- I was doing these really dark, figurative pieces, and I burned out on them. I had no idea where else to go artistically, so I just hung the whole thing up for a while. When I came back to art late last year (now living in a loft with lots of space to work) I took a new direction entirely, and I feel very re-invigorated with that.

b.b.crowe
04-19-2006, 09:02 PM
good question :)