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View Full Version : Help for Marie please !


Gilberte
11-29-2004, 02:55 PM
MY IMAGE(S):
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/upload_spool/11-29-2004/9813_100_4014.jpg


GENERAL INFORMATION:
Title: Help for Marie please !
Year Created: 2004
Medium: Oil
Surface: Wood
Dimension: 60 x 50 cms
Allow digital alterations?: Yes!

MY COMMENTS:
I started the sketch with Tempera and until now only the face has oil paint on it. I'm going to finish it in oils but ...

MY QUESTIONS FOR THE GROUP:
Marie has raven black hair and ditto eyes. What do you suggest I should mix as to colors for black that is not "black right from the tube" hair ? Burnt umber and blue ? Maybe? How do I render a nice gloss ?
What to do with all the wasteland ? Uniform background or lots of loose colorful strokes.
I WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR ADVICE VERY MUCH !

By the way, she's beautiful but she's asked very often ... are you adopted ? do you have gypsy origins ? are you from Algeria or Morocco ? her brother and sister are very Nordic types and she's my granddaughter .......

earthbot1
11-29-2004, 03:02 PM
very pretty portrait Gilberte. some folks don't use black...i like it when mixed with blues.
i'm sure some others will chime in. great start!
backgrounds are easy to change...go with your instincts.

LisaArt
11-29-2004, 03:08 PM
Gilberte, This looks super so far. :clap: She is very beautiful your granddaughter. You have done her skin tone and rosy cheeks so well.
I would mix the burnt umber and blue for the black. I also find hues of ultramarine in the mix makes for a nice velvety black. You can also add some linseed for shine and gloss.
As for the backround, the blue you have looks great right now. I would use blue, it will match well with her hair and sweater. I am not sure if you should go uniform or with many different brush strokes. Depends what style you are looking for. I do like many brush strokes and you are good at that. I think also I would go with different shades of the blue, with a ligther on top, to darker to darker blue below. What do you think.
Anyhow I am sure you will get lots of great advice.
Anxioius to see this finished.

Mikey
11-29-2004, 03:18 PM
Hi Gilberte,

I never use black paint myself, although the great masters of old certainly did. I found that with my Golden acrylics that Burnt Umber and Ultramarine made the best black, but with Michael Harding oils Burnt Sienna is best. Oils thinned with turps will be fairly matt, but a little drop of linseed oil makes for gloss. You'll have to remember the fat over lean principle, so leave the linseed until last, top paint.

Mikey

haaf
11-29-2004, 03:28 PM
Gilberte
have a look at the deep shadows in my Plums and Pomegranates painting, that was with the deepest blue and brown I could find.(almost like black, but not really and they worked nicely with the blues and brown used elewhere.)

Think about using the whole canvas (or wood) the painting works from edge to edge, or cut a piece off.
This is a WIP , so I won't say much more, you'll figure it out in your own special way.
Caroline ;)

Artistanne
11-29-2004, 09:19 PM
OOOH she's lovely Gilberte! I agree, the burnt umber and ultramarine have always worked well for me--personally I don't think I've ever used black. this is going to be lovely!

Frida200
11-29-2004, 10:19 PM
Hello Gilberte! :wave:

So many comments on the black already... so I won't add anotherone, but I still wanted to say that I think your painting looks REALLY good so far. She's very pretty... and looks very happy and calm.
You did a great job, just with a few brushstrokes... wow.

Claudia

Frida200
11-29-2004, 10:26 PM
No... I changed my mind!!! :D

Not about the beauty of the painting, but about the black...
I'll throw in a different opinion, just because I like doing that... LOL :evil:
If you look at Frida Kahlo's paintings, she used a lot of pitch black for her portraits... attachment: face of "Portrait of Cristina, my sister", 1928.

Bye bye...

Moosehead
11-30-2004, 12:24 AM
I use Burnt umber + ultramarine blue, or pthalo blue for black.

I just wanted to say, this is already looking really good. Make sure you post again at least when she's done, or, preferably as you progress. :clap:

Dhuot
11-30-2004, 12:43 AM
Gilberte, C`est la plus belle oeuvre qui nous arrive de toi...

Black is good ( specially for a dress.. ;) )...seriously, black is good

The so good John Singer Sargent said to Monet once..."You don`t use black ?? i couldn`t live without black !! "

Un petit clin d`oeil........ ;)

SMViolano
11-30-2004, 01:45 AM
I cannot add to what has been suggested for colors but I ask that you PLEASE post your follow-up's
This painting is looking wonderfully exotic and warm!

Gilberte
11-30-2004, 02:57 AM
Thanks a lot dear friends.
I appreciate your help on "black" a lot. It will be a challenge because she has a halo of that dark hair around het pretty little face and I'd hate to kill it. I've been up early this morning in order to work on it some more. First finds that right mix ... :rolleyes:
Claudia, merci for posting the Frida's sister painting. Very beautiful, hadn't seen it before.
I'll keep you posted and merci again ! Help is always gratefully accepted !

Bye bye and see you ... :wave:

A Few Pigments
11-30-2004, 03:42 AM
Have you tried burnt sienna and prussian blue. It makes a very lively, colourful black.

Moosehead
11-30-2004, 10:43 AM
Thanks a lot dear friends.
I appreciate your help on "black" a lot. It will be a challenge because she has a halo of that dark hair around het pretty little face and I'd hate to kill it. I've been up early this morning in order to work on it some more. First finds that right mix ... :rolleyes:
Claudia, merci for posting the Frida's sister painting. Very beautiful, hadn't seen it before.
I'll keep you posted and merci again ! Help is always gratefully accepted !

Bye bye and see you ... :wave:

I don't think you'll kill it. I've always felt that black hair and dark eyes are very striking.

Gilberte
11-30-2004, 01:49 PM
PLEAZZZZZZZ have a look ........

a mix of tight and loose ?

I used ultramarine and burnt umber for the black hair.
afewpigments, next time I'll have a try at siena and prus. blue ... thanks very much for the feedback :cool:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Nov-2004/9813-100_4018.jpg

haaf
11-30-2004, 01:58 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Caroline ;)
(bows respectfully)

Wayne Gaudon
11-30-2004, 02:02 PM
Hi .. when you mix your black be sure to keep in mind whether it should be warm or cold .. perhaps you need both .. shadow black and light black but both of equal value. You can get a nice warm black from cad red, burnt umber, and thalo blue. You can get a nice cold black from alz crimson and thalo green .. just mix mash till you get the color you want. Red Oxide and Thaol Blue .. Madder Rose and Ultramarine blue .. all different sheen but all dark enough to be black .. to see how your mixture works just take a little with and add it to a little piece of your black .. just to see your color base.

King Rundzap
11-30-2004, 02:33 PM
Have you tried burnt sienna and prussian blue. It makes a very lively, colourful black.

I have nothing against using black, and use it frequently, but I also like using other combinations like Dioxazine Purple and Sap Green for black. Really any odd combination of darker colors, as long as you keep them thick enough, will work. I also like to keep them not so thick, or not too mixed in a lot of places (I never mix on my palette any longer, anyway), to give the "black" area more of a purple, green (or whatever) look. On the other hand, the main thing I'm shooting for with my work is, "Wow, that's pretty weird", and that's probably not what you're going for here :wink2:

Spyderbabe
11-30-2004, 02:50 PM
G - Just saw this -- very lovely. Is this a gift to her?
K

Mikey
11-30-2004, 04:11 PM
Hey Gilberte,

You've produced a beautiful painting and are asking for help? As Wayne points out there is no actual black, except where there is no light reflected at all. So if you look at a black object carefully you may begin to see where it picks up the direct and ambient light with subtle differences.

Mikey

Tamana
11-30-2004, 08:29 PM
Gilberte, C`est la plus belle oeuvre qui nous arrive de toi...

Black is good ( specially for a dress.. ;) )...seriously, black is good

The so good John Singer Sargent said to Monet once..."You don`t use black ?? i couldn`t live without black !! "

Un petit clin d`oeil........ ;)

I agree!! Black IS good!!!


Beautiful rendering, Madame!!! I'm not sure how you're going to have it framed, but I'd matte some of that background out of it (sides and top a bit) as it distracts from the beauty of that face!!! That halo of light wafting in the yellow above her is just lovely. :)

Gilberte
12-01-2004, 04:26 AM
Thanks so much for all your comment and excellent advice for mixing blacks. I've written them all down and filed them in special folder regarding colors, values etc. etc. I'm less afraid of black now ... THANKS TO YOU !

I really hope Marie likes it ...
In general when our children drop in they don't notice what's on my easel anymore :crying: :wink2:

angela
12-01-2004, 08:49 PM
This is beautiful Gilberte!!! I am sure she will love it.
I really like how her sweater blends into the background and I love your choice of background color. :clap:

HRobinson
12-04-2004, 12:49 PM
I apologize for chiming in after the dance. To my knowledge though, all hair colors are in the yellow family, presumably with the "black" hair using the least yellow. It'll work. Has anyone else heard this? -Harry

Gilberte
12-04-2004, 01:30 PM
I apologize for chiming in after the dance. To my knowledge though, all hair colors are in the yellow family, presumably with the "black" hair using the least yellow. It'll work. Has anyone else heard this? -Harry

Please do explain ... in this case do you mean actually use yellow in mixing for the right black or are you referring to the yellow that is in this particular painting ? Curious minds want to know :cool:

Long time no see ?

P.S. "chiming in after the dance" ... another addition to my English vocabulary ... thanks !

HRobinson
12-04-2004, 02:56 PM
Well... the umbers, the siennas, and even the sap green with blue all seem like reasonable appreciations of the natural concept. As to whether or not a touch of ivory black would make any difference with these mixes? I'm chiming out now. :) -Harry