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Rusalka
11-18-2004, 03:56 PM
I'm looking for a program which will easily let me simulate the actions of painting on canvas in real life, which means:

1. The program lets you set up your brushes in front of you so it's easy to change them with one click; like putting your brushes out on the table.

2. The program lets you set up a palette onscreen so you can mix new colors just like with a real palette.

3. The program lets you mix colors "wet" on the painting, or overlay colors like you might with glazing with oils in real life... or smush color around the painting with a brush.

I have a drawing tablet. I also have Photoshop CS (I have the whole Adobe Studio version of CS), and a "lite" version of Painter that came with the Wacom drawing tablet.

None of them seem to have the above features. Photoshop's paint feature only lets you simulate oils as far as making them all opaque (alla prima). You can't really mix them in a natural way. Maybe it has this capability and I just don't know how to get to it. You can mix Photoshop colors by making them semi transparent, but this isn't the way oils behave in real life.

I'd really like to be able to make a custom palette which will allow me to experiment by directly mixing colors together on the fly, instead of picking out colors from a color wheel.

Does the full version of Painter do all these things? Are there any Photoshop add-ons which will do what I want?

frayling
11-18-2004, 04:12 PM
The most realistic oil painting prog i've found is called "artrage "and is free to download with no restrictions it doesn't do all the things you ask but most of them. the brush size is a variable sliding one click and hold .you could set up your own pall't in one corner of your canvas and the paint mixes together on the canvas and stays on the brush until you dip it into the cleaning glass or you can set it on auto clean.. Rob you can find it at www.ambientdesign.com

Rusalka
11-18-2004, 08:15 PM
I checked out your link and it looks just awesome! I can't wait to get home to download and try it. Thanks a billion!

How is the Painter IX program? Is this the same program that used to be called "Dabbler"? How does it compare with Artrage?

Elvira
11-18-2004, 08:40 PM
Painter is a great porgram but may take some getting use too but has the ability do most of what you discribe. Download the Painter IX trial and have a go, but you will need a top end computer with at least a gig of ram to work with large files. It is a painter's program. And in version 9 they gave us back the brush control pallette so you can adjust your brushes on the fly. You can set-up a custiom pallette for each project and create colour sets from images or from the mixer, the mixer was developed by the creator's of Artrage.

You can find some more discussion on Painter in this forum:
http://tinyurl.com/6p36u

Edie

JCoop
11-19-2004, 12:07 PM
You may be wasting your time with Artrage, as it is severly crippled by it's file size limitations... it's like hitting the lottery and not being able to spend the money. I agree with Edie... Painter 9 is your best bet, given your criteria.

Jin
11-19-2004, 05:49 PM
Hi Rusalka,

As Edie and JCoop have said, Corel Painter IX is the best for what you want to do, and I'll add that it offers the most advanced brush technology available in any progrem. Ambient, the makers of ArtRage worked with Corel to develop the Mixer palette first introduced in Painter 8 and further developed in Painter IX.

For Painter IX, Corel developed the new Artist's Oils brush category, including brush variants that work very much like (I think most would agree they work better than) ArtRage's oils brush, with much greater variety and in combination with Painter's wonderful Paper texture and brush interaction. Many Paper textures are included in the installed software, with extras on the CD, and unlimited possibilities for custom Papers created by the user.

I'll respond to your questions below:

I'm looking for a program which will easily let me simulate the actions of painting on canvas in real life, which means:

1. The program lets you set up your brushes in front of you so it's easy to change them with one click; like putting your brushes out on the table.


Painter IX and Painter 8.1 (with the 8.1 patch installed), as well as earlier Painter versions, allow us to set up Custom Palettes containing brush category icons so with a single click we can make a particular brush variant active and/or load a particular brush library. It also allows us to add main menu and palette menu command buttons to the Custom Palette and with a single click on a menu command button the menu command is invoked.

We can have multiple Custom Palettes for various projects.


2. The program lets you set up a palette onscreen so you can mix new colors just like with a real palette.


Painter 8 and Painter IX provide the Mixer palette where we can mix colors and also save those colors to a custom Color Set if we want.

In both Painter 8 and Painter IX, we can click the Mixer palette's Sample Color (eye dropper) icon and pick a color from the Mixer palette.

In Painter IX, using the new Artist's Oils brush variants:

We also have the Mixer palette's Sample Multiple Colors icon and when we click that icon, we can pick multiple adjacent colors from the Mixer Palette, then paint with those multiple colors in the Artist's Oils brushstrokes. When we click the Dirty box, located on the Property Bar, in the Brush Controls Artist's Oils palette, and in the Brush Creator's Artist's Oils section, colors are picked up from existing paint and appear in following brushstrokes.


3. The program lets you mix colors "wet" on the painting, or overlay colors like you might with glazing with oils in real life... or smush color around the painting with a brush.


Many default and/or custom brush variants in Painter 6, Painter 7, Painter 8, and Painter IX can be used to mix colors on the Canvas or on a Layer (true in earlier versions as well). Colors can be overlaid to do glazing either painting directly on existing paint on the Canvas or on a Layer, or probably a better option in many cases, painted on a new Layer used just for that purpose. Overlaying color can also be done with many default and/or custom brush variants.


I have a drawing tablet. I also have Photoshop CS (I have the whole Adobe Studio version of CS), and a "lite" version of Painter that came with the Wacom drawing tablet.

None of them seem to have the above features. Photoshop's paint feature only lets you simulate oils as far as making them all opaque (alla prima). You can't really mix them in a natural way. Maybe it has this capability and I just don't know how to get to it. You can mix Photoshop colors by making them semi transparent, but this isn't the way oils behave in real life.


Assuming you have a Wacom tablet, since you mentioned receiving Painter Classic with your tablet, Painter and a Wacom tablet are a perfect combination as each takes advantage of the capabilities found in the other: pressure sensitivity used in Painter to control Opacity, Size (width of the brushstroke), and many other brush variant characteristics. If you own an Intuos tablet, you also have Tilt control meaning that the brushstroke is affected by tilt of your stylus (pen) or the angle at which it's held.

What you describe as "a 'lite' version of Painter" would be either Painter Classic 1, based on the full Painter version, Painter 5, or Painter Classic 2, based on the full version, Painter 7. Both are very limited software to get people interested in buying a full Painter version, the current one being Painter IX and it's the best version of Painter to date, with many improvements in speed, brush performance, the new Artist's Oils brush category, and great improvements in the Digital Watercolors brush category.


I'd really like to be able to make a custom palette which will allow me to experiment by directly mixing colors together on the fly, instead of picking out colors from a color wheel.


In Painter, the term Custom Palette (as explained above) refers to a palette containing brush category and art materials icons and main menu and palette menu command buttons to make working in Painter more efficient and comfortable.

What you're referring to is a combination of the Mixer palette and custom Color Sets, or either used individually.


Does the full version of Painter do all these things? Are there any Photoshop add-ons which will do what I want?

The simple answer is yes, Painter IX does do all the things you've asked about. It also does a whole lot more. Painter, any version, is complex and offers almost unlimited possibilities for any artist working in digital media. It's not a perfect match for traditional media but it comes amazingly close and it can keep one entertained and productive for a long, long time.. indefinitely, in fact.

I'll also suggest that you download the free 30 day trial version of Painter IX and try it out. Join several Painter focused e-mail lists, message boards, and the Corel Painter Newsgroup so you'll get the support you need from experienced Painter users. You'll find a list of links on my PixelAlley site by clicking the link at the bottom left corner named "Painter Community Links" (URL below my signature).

Read about Corel Painter IX, and download the 30 day trial version here:

Corel Painter IX Website (http://www.corel.com/painterix/home/index.html)

Also read the Corel Painter IX Newsletter which contains Painter Master articles, tips, and tutorials, and more information on Painter in general:

Corel Painter IX Newsletter - The Painter Canvas (http://www.corel.com/painterix/community/newsletter.html)

I don't think any number of add ons to Photoshop will provide the capabilities Painter offers, though many artists use both Corel Painter and Photoshop to complete their images/paintings, using each program for what it does best.

Photoshop is best for color management, for instance. Painter is best for painting. Both programs are powerful and offer much more that those two features, and if one owns both programs, like the Painter and Wacom combination, Painter and Photoshop are also a great combination.

Jet
11-21-2004, 11:21 AM
Now, that Painter has gotten to be much better in all the flaws i had complained about from earlier versions, (same that many experts failed to pinpoint at that time).

I 'd say, Yup, Painter 9 is the best bet for what you want..
**Just remember to have your computer well equipped to be able to make the most of this robust and powerful program.

Good Luck !!

Rusalka
11-22-2004, 12:11 PM
Thanks for the explanation of Painter IX capabilities! You've convinced me that this is a program that I should have. It seems like I can get a student discount version for $88...!

Jin
11-22-2004, 05:33 PM
Hi Rusulka,

Great! I think you'll enjoy Painter IX.

With the Academic version, I think you will not receive a hard copy Painter IX User Guide, though there may be a PDF version on the CD.

If not, you will have the User Guide availailable via Help menu > Help Topics, with a Contents tab, Index tab, Search tab, and Favorites tab where you can bookmark special pages you may want to return to later.

Also, with the Academic version you won't be able to use it for commercial work. That won't matter if you're a student or not using Painter IX professionally.

Enjoy!

einna
11-23-2004, 05:42 AM
Hi, Rusalka. BTW how did you came up to this name? Just curious if it is Dvorak's Rusalka, the water nymph.

I went and dowloaded Art rage, just from the sheer curiosity and I think i like it. It is simple and the oil brush and canvas are looking so natural.

Just go and try it yourself and let me know, how you like it.
YOu can save pics as jpg by the way of exporting it into jpg files.

Annie

Elvira
11-23-2004, 11:26 AM
I just came across this review of Painter IX you might like to read.
http://www.macworld.com/news/2004/11/23/corel/index.php
Edie

Rusalka
12-06-2004, 03:06 AM
Hi Rusulka,

Also, with the Academic version you won't be able to use it for commercial work. That won't matter if you're a student or not using Painter IX professionally.

Enjoy!

What do you mean? Does it put a watermark on the output?
I have the Academic version of Adobe Suite CS and it does no such thing.
Also, I don't remember any kind of agreement (with the Adobe software) saying that I can't use the program once I'm done learning it. Please enlighten.

My use of the paint programs would be more of an intermediate step. If you "can't use it for commercial work" where does one draw the line? Say you composed an image in one of these academic versions and then painted from that image. Are you saying you're not allowed to do that and sell the final painted copy?

Rusalka
12-06-2004, 03:07 AM
btw, yes, I am taking classes as a student.

Chiers
12-06-2004, 04:58 AM
Rusulka I know a couple people who have the academic version and no, it does not mark the output.

I also seriously doubt that Corel expects buyers of the acedemic version to quit using it, say after a student is through with classes, and goes on to professional work. That just wouldn't make sense.

Jin
12-06-2004, 09:43 AM
Hi Rusalka,

In my message above, I was referring to Corel Painter IX when I said the Education/Academic version can't (may not) be used for commercial purposes.

Corel Education/Academic Software Purchase Conditions and Use Restrictions (http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Corel2/Section/Content&sid=1047022949768&cid=1047023133422)

.

nafa
12-06-2004, 11:14 PM
I would suspect that Corel's exact intention is for students to acquire a full license once they graduate and start making money with Corel software.

As Corel said that they will "conduct periodic security audits to be certain of your education qualification" they probably would not be monitoring all commercial activities just to make sure no one using the academic licenses is selling his/her work. However, they probably can still take action if certain student gets really famous and make lots of money. Also, I would suspect that most artists (student or not) making decent money would respect intellectual property rights and abide by licensing agreements.

Rusalka
12-08-2004, 03:01 AM
as I said before:

"My use of the paint programs would be more of an intermediate step. If you "can't use it for commercial work" where does one draw the line? Say you composed an image in one of these academic versions and then painted from that image. Are you saying you're not allowed to do that and sell the final painted copy?"

Also, are you saying you would buy Corel Painter IX TWICE for such a purpose? Really?

Painter IX won't be current forever, and of course someone who uses IX is probably going to want X if they are using it professionally and making money from it. Don't you think it is at THAT point that one would buy the full version? Would you really go out and buy a second full version of the IX software? There are no "upgrades" from academic to the regular version. If Corel really expected that, why aren't there any such upgrades?

Under the scenario you propose, a former student would actually be paying MORE for the same thing that someone who never was a student would have paid for.