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sidhartha11
11-12-2004, 08:31 PM
MY IMAGE(S):

GENERAL INFORMATION:
Title: ( see description below )
Year Created: 2004
Medium: Pastel
Surface: Paper
Dimension: 19x25 inches
Allow digital alterations?: No, please :)

This painting was done in an almost purely random fashion after I became enranged over the presidentual election results the night of the election... ( Bush supporters should not let this fact guide your critique ). I simply grabbed a piece of Pastel Paper and randomly , without looking, drew many lines, curves .. etc ...
I let it sit for a few days and then decided fill all the shapes in with shades of blue. The title is actually one of the following, not sure which one yet:

1. Portrait in Blue
2. 2004 Presidentual Election Mistake
3. Emilia's Blues

MY QUESTIONS FOR THE GROUP:
I am curious about the validity of this type of painting. It was done quickly and in a very random sort of fashion. The basic premis was to try and use only Blue or Blue like colors. After finishing it, I felt the urge to stick some Red/Orange in the painting.
In your critique, I would like to know:
1. Is this a valid approach to creating an abtract piece in your opinion.
2. What could be done to improve this, that is , if you liked it in the first place.
4. If you find something positive about it, try to give me details regarding what you find positive.
Thanks

Quiet
11-13-2004, 01:25 AM
1. Make what you are driven to make and don’t accept anyone else’s definitions of if it is or isn’t art. If it isn’t what you want to make, then learn what you can from it and move on.
2. I can’t answer that; abstract and non-representational works generally don’t do much for me.
3. Same answer as # 2.
4. I do really like the Dr.Suess-ishness of that little red bud or microphone growing from the top of the blue blob. Setting aside all you have told us about the piece, I see a blue shape, and two red spheres on sticks, one of which is mimicking the other. Those shapes are telling a story which makes no sense with or without the political inspiration, but holds my curiosity. The blue blob, in comparison, is just an eye-catching pattern that would be far less interesting on its own.

sidhartha11
11-13-2004, 01:08 PM
1. Make what you are driven to make and don’t accept anyone else’s definitions of if it is or isn’t art. If it isn’t what you want to make, then learn what you can from it and move on.
2. I can’t answer that; abstract and non-representational works generally don’t do much for me.
3. Same answer as # 2.
4. I do really like the Dr.Suess-ishness of that little red bud or microphone growing from the top of the blue blob. Setting aside all you have told us about the piece, I see a blue shape, and two red spheres on sticks, one of which is mimicking the other. Those shapes are telling a story which makes no sense with or without the political inspiration, but holds my curiosity. The blue blob, in comparison, is just an eye-catching pattern that would be far less interesting on its own.
Interesting comments. In fact, I am very interested in comments that come from those that do not understand abstract art because if it is possible for an abstract art to move a person that dislikes or does not understand abstract art then that piece of work is truely remarkable in my opinion.
Thanks ..

Quiet
11-13-2004, 08:36 PM
Haha! I have a very hard time finding anything potentially helpful to say non-representational work. I'm afraid to say it, but all too often my only thought is "bleah, another bunch of gobs of color on a canvas, and no story". But there have been exceptions to that. I have run into the occasional non-representational piece that made me think, "Wow! Amazing and luscious gobs of color!" I can't tell what magical quality the latter has that the former doesn't. I do know that non-representational works seem like music to me - with certain uses of rhythms and pitch, if color can be equated to pitch, then the piece might agree with me.

sidhartha11
11-13-2004, 09:42 PM
Haha! I have a very hard time finding anything potentially helpful to say non-representational work. I'm afraid to say it, but all too often my only thought is "bleah, another bunch of gobs of color on a canvas, and no story". But there have been exceptions to that. I have run into the occasional non-representational piece that made me think, "Wow! Amazing and luscious gobs of color!" I can't tell what magical quality the latter has that the former doesn't. I do know that non-representational works seem like music to me - with certain uses of rhythms and pitch, if color can be equated to pitch, then the piece might agree with me.

Supposedly, Kadinsky attempted to create art based on musical scores of some type, probably classical scores.
And I feel that there really is little difference if any at all between sound and color. Of course sound generally is experienced via the set of nerves in your ear and color is experienced via the set of nerves in your eyes but there are those individuals with extreme levels of creativity that seem to be able to hear color and see sound. Hmmm .. good title for my next painting ..

----

As for Blobs of this and that .. this is very true, I think. Artist are similar to Chiropractors. A chiropractor will tell you anything and do anything to get into your wallet. Of course, there are truely gifted chiropractors. The same is true for Artists, whether representational or abstract. Some Abstract artist will just throw a splat of color on a canvas AND WILL IT TO BE ART, hoping that you will surcomb to their will .. haha

bocote
11-13-2004, 10:28 PM
1) yes indeed. random is not so random. each line you had to think about; its not like rolling a dice.
2) I can't think of anything to improve this. Technically your pastel skills are very solid.
3) Abstract is abstract and I personally don't really get into it. it looks nice or doesn't. this looks nice. The forms almost build something greater than themselves, but I think it falls short. little red guy at top is interesting, but not sure how I feel about it.
4) technical skill and ability to ask defined clear questions for critique. each little form is building an interesting composition. light and dark line form and detail associated with each is very sharp.

nice work,

have fun

sidhartha11
11-13-2004, 10:55 PM
1) yes indeed. random is not so random. each line you had to think about; its not like rolling a dice.
2) I can't think of anything to improve this. Technically your pastel skills are very solid.
3) Abstract is abstract and I personally don't really get into it. it looks nice or doesn't. this looks nice. The forms almost build something greater than themselves, but I think it falls short. little red guy at top is interesting, but not sure how I feel about it.
4) technical skill and ability to ask defined clear questions for critique. each little form is building an interesting composition. light and dark line form and detail associated with each is very sharp.

nice work,

have fun

Thanks for the positive feed back. As for the funny little orange thing on top .. haha .. DON'T ASK ME. I have been looking at the painting rotated 180 degrees and the red dot takes on the form of some type of weighting device.

MvdLinden
11-14-2004, 01:42 AM
Of course most of the map turned red on election night not blue...even more so if you view the results by county. So perhaps freud would have a field day with the intent here.

All that aside, the method is more than valid, it is well tried; all things old are new again. Of course, the concept that there may be a invalid way to initiate art baffles me.

Technically, the work is high quality. Illustration like in the cleanness of line and color.

Noting Bad about the work. I will note that since you are playing with blue you immediately hit up against the blue shift depth perception cues. And looked at in this light there are flow inconsistancies, but then that is not necessarily a bad thing. Makes the mind stop and wonder what has broken the illusion.

sidhartha11
11-14-2004, 11:29 AM
Of course most of the map turned red on election night not blue...even more so if you view the results by county. So perhaps freud would have a field day with the intent here.

All that aside, the method is more than valid, it is well tried; all things old are new again. Of course, the concept that there may be a invalid way to initiate art baffles me.

Technically, the work is high quality. Illustration like in the cleanness of line and color.

Noting Bad about the work. I will note that since you are playing with blue you immediately hit up against the blue shift depth perception cues. And looked at in this light there are flow inconsistancies, but then that is not necessarily a bad thing. Makes the mind stop and wonder what has broken the illusion.

Thanks for your nice words. However, the two points you make of most interest to me are:
1. The red,blue thing in the content of the Election, i.e. red states won, yet painting turned out to be blue ... and ... how freud would have a field day. This opens the door to a BUCKET of different interpretations on the reasons for the red and blue.
2. I am self taught, know nothing about "blue shift depth perception .. etc etc", but your comment makes me feel even stronger about trying to put onto paper what is in my mind and also trying to do it with commitment. These theories about color, shapes .. etc .. that are probably formalized in schools and books had to come from some place. I believe that place is the mind.

Quiet
11-14-2004, 12:39 PM
I am self taught, know nothing about "blue shift depth perception .. etc etc". . .

I'm formally taught, and I don't know what that is, either. ;-) (Anyone care to enlighten us?)

sidhartha11
11-14-2004, 01:53 PM
I'm formally taught, and I don't know what that is, either. ;-) (Anyone care to enlighten us?)

I am formally taught .. in the field of computer science. I work as a software engineer for a major , actually the largest, financial services firm in the world. I studied formal mathmatics, compiler design, data structures, various computer languages, logic theory, deductive logic ... etc etc etc ..
I did this study at a University, Univ of Illinois and Temple University. There were several professors that taught the coarses I took. I had to do assignments, read books .. etc etc ..
------
I guess this is one form of formal study. In the field of arts, especially music and visual arts, it is probably possible to achieve an alternate form of , yet, formal study. That which follows the model of 'master' and 'student'.
------
However, the absense of formal study implies: doing something with little or no outside help in the form of a human being or a book. I guess this too can be subjective, now that I think about it. "Who is to say that just painting on your own, eventually getting better at it over time, being determined is not in itself another type of formal study?" Also, having went thru the rigors of "formally" studying computer science and also having studied music for several years( formally ) .... well, who is to say that the disciplines acquired from those studies does not also apply to any thing one does later in life?
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Kindof interesting in a way.
For example,
When I studied music formally, my instructor would always tell me to do whatever I do with complete commitment. This was taken as a formal thought from the instructor in her method of formally teaching me to play the Flute. Yet, now, when I create doodles, I always remember that thought. I hear the teacher's voice saying: You must do whatever you do with commitment. And this is something that I strive for with every painting.
hmmm

Quiet
11-14-2004, 02:03 PM
:-) It's great to hear that I'm not the only one who has successfully applied lessons learned from music to art. Awesome!

MvdLinden
11-14-2004, 04:49 PM
In a colored medium such as air-brush and pen, artists often use both hue and luminance (greyscale intensity) shifts. Adding blacks and whites to a given color results in what artists call shades in the case of black, and tints in the case of white. When color scales are created by adding grey to a certain color they are called tones [2]. Such tones vary in hue but do not typically vary much in luminance. When the complement of a color is used to create a color scale, they are also called tones. Tones are considered a crucial concept to illustrators, and are especially useful when the illustrator is restricted to a small luminance range [12]. Another quality of color used by artists is the temperature of the color. The temperature of a color is defined as being warm (red, orange, and yellow), cool (blue, violet, and green), or temperate (red-violets and yellow-greens). The depth cue comes from the perception that cool colors recede while warm colors advance. In addition, object colors change temperature in sunlit scenes because cool skylight and warm sunlight vary in relative contribution across the surface, so there may be ecological reasons to expect humans to be sensitive to color temperature variation. Not only is the temperature of a hue dependent upon the hue itself, but this advancing and receding relationship is effected by proximity [4]. We will use these techniques and their psychophysical relationship as the basis for our model.

Figure 2: How the tone is created for a pure red object by summing a blue-to-yellow and a dark-red-to-red tone. \begin{figure} \centerline{ \epsfig {figure= paper_images/formula.ps, width=3.1in } }\end{figure}

We can generalize the classic shading model to experiment with tones by using the cosine term ($\mbox{${\bf \hat{l}}$} \cdot \mbox{${\bf \hat{n}}$}$) of Equation 1 to blend between two RGB colors, kcool and kwarm:
\begin{displaymath} I = \left(\frac{1 + \mbox{${\bf \hat{l}}$} \cdot \mbox{${\bf... ...f \hat{l}}$} \cdot \mbox{${\bf \hat{n}}$}}{2} \right) k_{warm} \end{displaymath} (2)
Note that the quantity $\mbox{${\bf \hat{l}}$} \cdot \mbox{${\bf \hat{n}}$}$ varies over the interval [-1,1]. To ensure the image shows this full variation, the light vector $\mbox{${\bf \hat{l}}$}$ should be perpendicular to the gaze direction. Because the human vision system assumes illumination comes from above [9], we chose to position the light up and to the right and to keep this position constant.

An image that uses a color scale with little luminance variation is shown in Figure 6. This image shows that a sense of depth can be communicated at least partially by a hue shift. However, the lack of a strong cool to warm hue shift and the lack of a luminance shift makes the shape information subtle. We speculate that the unnatural colors are also problematic.

In order to automate this hue shift technique and to add some luminance variation to our use of tones, we can examine two extreme possibilities for color scale generation: blue to yellow tones and scaled object-color shades. Our final model is a linear combination of these techniques. Blue and yellow tones are chosen to insure a cool to warm color transition regardless of the diffuse color of the object.

The blue-to-yellow tones range from a fully saturated blue: k blue = (0, 0, b), b in the range [0,1], in RGB space to a fully saturated yellow:k yellow = (y, y, 0), y in the range [0,1]. This produces a very sculpted but unnatural image, and is independent of the object's diffuse reflectance kd. The extreme tone related to kd is a variation of diffuse shading where kcool is pure black and kwarm = kd. This would look much like traditional diffuse shading, but the entire object would vary in luminance, including where $\mbox{${\bf \hat{l}}$} \cdot \mbox{${\bf \hat{n}}$} < 0$ is less than 0. What we would really like is a compromise between these strategies. These transitions will result in a combination of tone scaled object-color and a cool-to-warm undertone, an effect which artists achieve by combining pigments. We can simulate undertones by a linear blend between the blue/yellow and black/object-color tones:

Plugging these values into Equation 2 leaves us with four free parameters: b, y, $\alpha$, and $\beta$. The values for b and y will determine the strength of the overall temperature shift, and the values of $\alpha$, and $\beta$ will determine the prominence of the object color and the strength of the luminance shift. Because we want to stay away from shading which will visually interfere with black and white, we should supply intermediate values for these constants. An example of a resulting tone for a pure red object is shown in Figure 2.

Substituting the values for kcool and kwarm from Equation 3 into the tone Equation 2 results in shading with values within the middle luminance range as desired. Figure 7 is shown with b = 0.4, y = 0.4, $\alpha$ = 0.2, and $\beta$ = 0.6. To show that the exact values are not crucial to appropriate appearance, the same model is shown in Figure 8 with b= 0.55, y = 0.3, $\alpha$ = 0.25, and $\beta$ = 0.5. Unlike Figure 5, subtleties of shape in the claws are visible in Figures 7 and 8.

The model is appropriate for a range of object colors. Both traditional shading and the new tone-based shading are applied to a set of spheres in Figure 9. Note that with the new shading method objects retain their color name'' so colors can still be used to differentiate objects like countries on a political map, but the intensities used do not interfere with the clear perception of black edge lines and white highlights.

sidhartha11
11-14-2004, 05:54 PM
In a colored medium such as air-brush and pen, artists often use both hue and luminance (greyscale intensity) shifts. Adding blacks and whites to a given color results in what artists call shades in the case of black, and tints in the case of white. When color scales are created by adding grey to a certain color they are called tones [2]. Such tones vary in hue but do not typically vary much in luminance. When the complement of a color is used to create a color scale, they are ... and so on ... ... guess postscript doesn't work in this type of text box. I try and load it in a paint program.
.

Wow .. Now that is what I call taking color theory to the extreme. I wonder if people like Dali, Earnst, Kadinsky .. etc .. knew that level of theory when it comes to colors? Or was it just a matter of what they grew to like over time and thru experimentation.
....
Also .. it seems that it would be possible to generate colors, shadings, tints based upon some type of algorithm utilizing the theory and idea you have put forth in this posting.
Personally, I do not get much out of computer generated images, but I did go thru a period years ago, before I started to doodle with pastels, in which I used some of the well known math forumulas for generating Mandelbrot sets ( and others ). I did this on a Sun-Work Station with a fairly good CPU ( for that time ). I recall using various incarnations of randomly generated numbers in the actual algorithm itself.
I guess one could do the same , utilizing the ideas you have exposed here, and in the process attempting to generate images that mimic something , or approach something that naturally occurs in life.
BUT ...
That would be difficult to do at this time in our evolution.

sidhartha11
11-14-2004, 05:59 PM
:-) It's great to hear that I'm not the only one who has successfully applied lessons learned from music to art. Awesome!
In fact .. perhaps sound is truely the greatest from of creative expression. Everything else just approaches it, comes close but never surpasses sound. It could be argued that the very foundation of our reality is based on sound, not vision.
Even in computer science, I use the discipline that I acquired in my early music studies. In studying music, I was required to sit in a little room and sometimes practice for hours and hours. Thus, when I started to study computers and was required to create computer programs that in turn required me to sit at the computer for hours and hours ..... well ..... I was already used to doing such things.