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arnoud3272
07-07-2010, 03:48 AM
:thumbsup:.

EJN
07-07-2010, 09:22 AM
Thank you so much Arnoud,

you've made my day http://www.cosgan.de/images/midi/liebe/g050.gif http://www.cosgan.de/images/midi/froehlich/a045.gif

Maggie_M
07-12-2010, 03:45 AM
Sorry for the quality of my images. I had no scanner available to me today. I used my camera.

I wasn't exactly sure what I needed to do except draw things that were based on cubes - so here they are. Arnoud, please let me know what you think.

Everything we've done prior to today's submissions has vanishing points that are within a range where we can actually measure with a ruler so we can check our angles. The point of view of these objects seems acute and sometimes distorted. As we draw with vanishing points that are out of the "measuring range" is it just experience that lets us know if the drawing is accurate? Do you have any tips on this?

Sometimes I'll draw something and can tell that the perspective isn't quite right but I can't figure out what's wrong. In my drawing of the chair I can tell that the arms aren't right but I can't seem to fix the problem.

CharlieD
07-12-2010, 11:23 AM
Drawng Cubic objects

arnoud3272
07-12-2010, 02:00 PM
Everything we've done prior to today's submissions has vanishing points that are within a range where we can actually measure with a ruler so we can check our angles. The point of view of these objects seems acute and sometimes distorted. As we draw with vanishing points that are out of the "measuring range" is it just experience that lets us know if the drawing is accurate? Do you have any tips on this?

Indeed, putting the VP's too close together is the most common error of perspective according to Andrew Loomis (in "Successful Drawing"). To check VP's off page, there are several tricks. If only slightly off, you can tape a second piece of paper at the side. Farther away, but still on your table, you can use a drawing pin (possibly stuck upside down in a piece of adhesive tape) and a piece of string. Still farther away, just guess, make sure that the VL's converge slightly. And make it believable that the VP's lie on the same horizon.
On your book it is clearly not the case (the chair is a good example)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jul-2010/142886-magie-book.jpg

In my drawing of the chair I can tell that the arms aren't right but I can't seem to fix the problem. The perspective is correct.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jul-2010/142886-maggie-chair.jpg

The problem is that you try to apply the principle where it is not appropriate - OK, I don't know the reference, but I think I recognize that kind of chair.
Basic perspective is only applicable to parallel (and horizontal) edges. I don't think the arms are parallel.
You did very well, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

arnoud3272
07-12-2010, 03:36 PM
Charlie -
The dice are nicely drawn. They are in a difficult perspective which you analyzed rather well. There is one important error. For basic perspective, i.e. horizontal, parallel edges/lines, there are only 2 principles to pay attention to: A. further away looks smaller and B. all VP's lie on the horizon, aka eye level.
There is one set of VP's that should converge faster:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jul-2010/142886-charlie-dice.JPG

Also the silo is very well drawn, there is only one oversight:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jul-2010/142886-charlie-silo.JPG

Well done; move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

EJN
07-13-2010, 12:12 PM
Hello Arnoud,

this is a photo, a sketch, and a drawing of two buildings.

arnoud3272
07-13-2010, 03:39 PM
Very good job, Elena :clap::clap:.
I'd check the large shadow, it looks as if each side has its own sun :lol:.
Move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

EJN
07-14-2010, 03:28 PM
Very good job, Elena :clap::clap:.
I'd check the large shadow, it looks as if each side has its own sun :lol:.
Move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.Thank you so much Arnoud.

One never knows anymore how many suns can pop up on a sky these days. :wink2:

Maggie_M
07-15-2010, 12:30 PM
Thanks, Arnoud.

Once you put the perspective lines on the drawing of the chair I could clearly see how to fix the problem with the arms of the chair. The arm on the right is a little too short and the face of the curve is tilted back a little. Also they aren't parallel to one another.

On the drawing of the book - I see what you mean. That drawing looked correct to me until you added the perspective lines. I imagine our brains compensate for small errors and ignore them. At least my brain did in this case.

Thanks for your input.

silvabl
07-28-2010, 11:02 PM
Arnoud, I noticed my drawing looked 'warped' when I took a picture of it, that is why the rulers are aligned on both sides of it. I couldn't figure out why this was happening. Sorry. Hope it helps.:D
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Jul-2010/230937-IMG_0086.JPG

arnoud3272
07-29-2010, 08:30 AM
Arnoud, I noticed my drawing looked 'warped' when I took a picture of it, that is why the rulers are aligned on both sides of it. I couldn't figure out why this was happening. Brian -
That is a very common lens distortion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distortion_%28optics%29). It can be diminished by taking the photo from a greater distance, and cropping. A better quality lens is also a help :D:lol:.
But your drawing is well done :thumbsup:.

silvabl
07-29-2010, 08:42 AM
arnoud - Thank you for the info. I see it is barrel distortion that is happening. Unfortunately the camera I bought is a point and shoot and does not have the option of switching lenses. I'll experiment with it from different angles and such. OK to move on to class 4?

arnoud3272
07-29-2010, 08:51 AM
Brian-
Yes, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

Ulima
08-08-2010, 03:56 AM
Good morning Arnoud,

It's been about a week since my last post here. I'm having a tough time with perspective and also wanted to see other students submissions but I'm only able to see one of every dozen pictures :(, well, I'll be patient. Meanwhile here are my dice WIP.
505961


Thanks and have a great day.

arnoud3272
08-08-2010, 05:55 AM
Ulima -
Why -- you started with the most difficult picture, perspective-wise.
This class is in a sense a continuation of class 2. Remember the 2 principles that are the foundation in class 2:
-- further away looks smaller: Generally fine, with one exception :thumbsup:.
-- only one eye level: you got 3 of them :confused:.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Aug-2010/142886-ulima-dice-corr.jpg
You're almost there, you understand it, now it should become an automatic reflection. Comes with practice, as everything :).

Ulima
08-08-2010, 12:51 PM
Thanks Arnoud,

Many crumpled attempts went to the trash. I have tried numerous times but when the perspective was fine it never looked like the picture. So I printed it and added all the perspective lines. If I'm confused or not sure of the assignment I usually go trough the other posts but this week has been hard with the missing pictures. Anyway, thank you, and I'm going to read the assignment again and re-do it.

arnoud3272
08-10-2010, 09:38 AM
Ulima -
The thread overview was not updated during the last trouble period, I didn't realize you had posted :(.
... but when the perspective was fine it never looked like the picture.
Cameras do distort pictures :evil:, particularly when taken from a short distance as done here. As an artist, you are free - or rather advised - to correct the distortion.
You did not misunderstand the assignment. But if you illustrate the vanishing lines, it means that you aim at a correct perspective. So all VP's (that is, from horizontal lines) should lie somewhere on the same horizontal line, and edges should converge, not diverge.
Like this:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Aug-2010/142886-101-3-dice-sketch.jpg

(The two at the left are far away, so just "guestimated")
:wave:

Ulima
08-12-2010, 07:15 PM
Hi Arnoud,
Because of a personal situation for the following three to four weeks I will only be participating sporadically if at all. But when I have a few minutes to spare I lurk around WC and found that they are asking us to report to the moderators any threads with missing pics with the complete URL, so here is this one.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=597852&page=7
Actually all the threads in The classroom have missing pics.
And last but not least: thanks for the last explanation, now it makes sense why I couldn't copy those dice right.

arnoud3272
08-13-2010, 04:25 AM
Because of a personal situation for the following three to four weeks I will only be participating sporadically if at all.

Actually all the threads in The classroom have missing pics.
Thanks :).
Take your time, there are no "terms" in this classroom.
And yes, all threads in the classroom have already been reported.
:wave:

Marie-réunion
08-17-2010, 04:08 PM
Hi arnoud.
the dices : I found it difficult to do
517041

objects around me : more fun
517051

arnoud3272
08-17-2010, 04:55 PM
Marie-Noelle -
Nice job :clap:.
You did very well on the dice. Good eye on the other objects.
Move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

Marie-réunion
08-18-2010, 03:04 AM
Thanks arnoud

denyalle
08-19-2010, 12:48 AM
Hi :wave:

Here are two submissions for this class - I drew my cell phone because it was right there on the desk looking mostly cube-ey and then the second one is one of the funiculars here in Valparaíso used to transport citizens up and down the steep hills of the port. I didn't do the entire rail because it's difficult to see all of the crossbeams and ties as you go further down the hill :)

arnoud3272
08-19-2010, 10:36 AM
Denyalle -
Good job :clap:.
A remark on a more general level, not in relation to the subject of the class:
I didn't do the entire rail because it's difficult to see all of the crossbeams and ties as you go further down the hill But now it is not at all clear what is happening . It may be difficult to see, but as an engineering work, there will be some regularity in it, you can continue on the structure a bit farther down by copying. But remember, further away looks smaller :D. And as by the "aerial perspective" the details blur out in the distance, you can suffice with a suggested structure. IMO an empty space in the right half of your drawing is not satisfying as a composition.

muvs32
08-20-2010, 06:34 AM
Here are some cubist exercises and a redo of my class 1 pre-class drawing, fixed with perspective:wave:http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Aug-2010/228972-cubes_001.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Aug-2010/228972-classic_redo_001.jpg

arnoud3272
08-20-2010, 08:32 AM
Muvs -
Nice job :clap:.
Of course, even with sketches, don't forget: further away looks smaller :evil:. No need to draw the VL's explicitly in a quick sketch, but train yourself to become sensitive for this kind of error.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Aug-2010/142886-muvs-cubes-corr.jpg


The re-do of your pre-class drawing is excellent :clap::clap:.
Well done, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

muvs32
08-26-2010, 01:17 PM
Thanks for the suggestions arnoud. Now that I am back from vacation, it's time to get back to work. :clap:

4ndy
09-06-2010, 03:36 PM
Here is my efforts for this class. I originally sketched the image on paper and applied perspective lines. Then the clean up was done in photoshop.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Sep-2010/264311-st_peter_front.gif Reference pic

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Sep-2010/264311-IMAGE1.jpg
Paper Sketch

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Sep-2010/264311-IMAGE2.jpg
Final pic

Crits welcome. Cheers!

arnoud3272
09-06-2010, 04:34 PM
Andy -
This is a nice job, but digital work do not belong in the D & S Forum, and even less in this subforum on learning drawing techniques. It is permitted to use PS and the like as a tool, in functions for which you could also use a ruler, or tracing paper, etc... But not for rendering; a few mouse clicks on the bucket tool has no relation to careful shading line by line. Drawing is in essence a technique of lines, not of areas.
BTW, in one instance you failed to choose the right line when rendering, the corrected line is on your sketch, but you took the original one :evil::

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Sep-2010/142886-andy-house-corr.jpg

Your understanding of perspective and cubic forms is very good, but keep to pencil please :).

renzolw
09-13-2010, 02:48 AM
Here's my assignment for this class.

arnoud3272
09-13-2010, 09:47 AM
Renzo -
Well done :thumbsup:.
The perspective is believable, I mean not mathematically correct, but good for a work of art.
Something to consider: until now your drawings are with strong outlines and hatching for the shading. That is fine if your aim is quick sketching and preparatory drawings for another medium. But if you want to step up to "finished" drawings, with an artistic value of their own, try to treat the outlines in a more subtle way, either blending away in the (smooth) shading or with some variation in tone and/or width. E.g. thin in the light, heavy in the dark.
Move on to class 4 :music:.

beachcomber99
10-05-2010, 08:01 PM
here are some drawings for lesson 3:

arnoud3272
10-06-2010, 06:14 AM
Theresa -
Very well done :clap:.
Just to sharpen your eye, edge 1 is converging a bit too fast IMO, and edge 2 is definitely too fast:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Oct-2010/142886-theresa-boxes-corr.jpg

But other than that, your perspective is very good, and you rendered believable cubic forms.
Nice job, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:

beachcomber99
10-06-2010, 08:30 AM
Thanks. I found that if I use 2 pencils and lay them over the lines I can at least make sure they are converging when they should be. I guess just more practice will help me get the angles just right, but at least now I can check and be sure they are heading in roughly the right direction.

beachcomber99
10-06-2010, 08:41 AM
Thanks. I found that if I hold 2 pencils over the angles I can at least make sure they are going toward each other when they should be. I guess getting the angles just right will take more practice. I will keep working with cubic objects and get start on ellipses too. :)

arnoud3272
10-06-2010, 11:48 AM
:thumbsup:

cathartic creativity
10-07-2010, 08:04 PM
I have a question--for the dice picture, it is obvious that the vertical line on the left die is not completely vertical or at a 90 angle to the horizon line. Is that just one of those things where you "break" the perspective rule because of distortion?

cathartic creativity
10-07-2010, 08:06 PM
never mind, i found the answer in another post! I was wondering if it was 3pp...how do you know, if its just looking down on an object?

cathartic creativity
10-08-2010, 08:48 PM
Here is my dice picture

arnoud3272
10-10-2010, 05:08 AM
cathar -
You're progressing well. As you realized already, perspective is very important for cubic forms :evil:. Your third VP is very good :clap:, but look again at the other edges, keeping in mind the 2 basic principles of perspective.
A. further away looks smaller Several back edges are drawn larger than the corresponding front edge. That is easily shown by extending the edge, aka drawing the VL. See the blue comments.
B. You can hold your eye only at one level at a time, there is only one eye level, aka horizon. All the VP's must lie on the same horizontal line, see the red dots.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Oct-2010/142886-cathar-dice-corr.jpg

BTW, you came up with 4 vp's for the "red" die, that should only be 2 :evil:, all horizontal edges to the right vanish to one and all from the left to the second.
I think you struggled enough with this - indeed - difficult reference. This class is really the most fundamental class, it is good to practice a bit more. I'd like you to choose another reference, could be from your own environment also.
:wave:

cathartic creativity
10-11-2010, 12:00 AM
Because I am a glutton for punishment, I decided to do another dice drawing.
I am attaching my reference photo I took today...and then my drawing. Sorry for it being so blurry! Its late and bad lighting.

So there are obvious problems. First of all, I am NOT saying how long this took. The top left dice: I know that top line is way off. I was SO done with drawing it at this point. :lol: And I am having major problems with proportion. These dice are all different sizes and shapes. Hmm. I also see that what is supposed to be the "clear" die, that one line is diverging instead of converging. I don't know how considering I drew out all the VLs. :envy: I think I went a little crazy with the shading. Also, in the ref photo, the blue and clear die are facing the camera, but keeping with 2pp, there was no way I could do that without completely changing the whole photo. This isn't 3pp is it?

arnoud3272
10-11-2010, 12:28 PM
cathar -
Good job :clap:. As you saw yourself, some lines are not entirely in correct perspective, but skills will come with more practice, and it is very good that you see the error :thumbsup:.
Shading: not too dark at all, you will read very often the comment push the darks :lol:. The only crit could be that there is not enough mid tone, not enough variation. Again of course: practice, practice, practice.
That transparent die is, if you must give it a name, in 1PP. If it was completely transparent, you would see the convergence of the bottom:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Oct-2010/142886-cathar-ref.jpg

But 1PP, 2PP and 3PP are a bit unfortunate terms for artists, they never apply to a complete drawing or painting. These are mathematical terms, reflecting whether the convergence (i.e. distortion) runs along 1, 2 or 3 axes of the Cartesian geometry :evil::D. Just look at this, there are 3 VP's, still this is 2PP geometrically:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Oct-2010/142886-HEX-PERSPECTIVE.JPG
A far better theory:
-- for "lines" read "horizontal lines" --
a. parallel lines "in the plane of the paper" do not converge
b. lines "perpendicular to the paper" converge to the (single) main VP
c other sets of parallel lines converge also to a VP left or right of the principal VP, but on the same level, called the EyeLevel aka horizon.
You did very well, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:

cathartic creativity
10-11-2010, 08:19 PM
Ok, so I should have drawn the transparent and blue die in 1pp? and the others in 2? You can do that in one drawing, as long as they all hit the same horizon line?

arnoud3272
10-12-2010, 02:37 AM
Ok, so I should have drawn the transparent and blue die in 1pp? and the others in 2? You can do that in one drawing, as long as they all hit the same horizon line?
Exactly! And those in 2PP do not share the same 2 VP's unless their edges run parallel.
:wave:

cathartic creativity
10-12-2010, 07:50 PM
Wait...what do you mean, exactly?

arnoud3272
10-13-2010, 05:27 AM
Wait...what do you mean, exactly?
Is this tongue in cheek?
Anyhow, the analysis of the reference shows some dice in 1PP and others in 2PP, and it would be the same in a perfect copy. But a reference is just a starting point, and except as an exercise, or in strict photo-realist style, there is room for "artistic license".

cathartic creativity
10-13-2010, 08:28 PM
No, i just got confused by the "Those two in 2pp will not have the same 2 vps unless their edges run parallel." So, according to my ref photo, no two die would have had the same VPs? Because they all went to the same ones!

arnoud3272
10-14-2010, 10:37 AM
cathar -
I see, but for a start, you misquote me, so possibly you misread me: I did not say "those two", I wasn't looking at the examples, just speaking in general.
Now there is a fixed relation, that can be proved mathematically to derive from the physical properties of light, so it is a law of nature: parallel lines - not important how many, or coming from what object - converge to the same point. And another set of parallel lines converge to another common point. If the edges of 2 dice on the reference are not parallel, the dice will have different VP's. Conversely, if you draw them running to the same VP's, then you suggest to the viewer that the dice are positioned in the same direction - law of nature. That is not an error, that is artistic license. An error is when lines that cannot go in different directions are drawn to different VP's. E.g. the imaginary line connecting 2 legs of a (rectangular) table must be parallel with the corresponding edge of the top. Unless you are dealing with a very untalented carpenter :lol:.
I suggest that you let it sink in for now and move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

MadParrot
11-17-2010, 04:27 AM
So these were the second attempt, after the first vanished into a vortex of corrected spikes, who knew dice were so difficult? :) Of course, I can now see issues with the back of the front one (left a bit), but fairly happy with the other. Look reasonable? Thanks.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Nov-2010/80616-dice.jpg

arnoud3272
11-17-2010, 08:02 AM
Madparrot -
Welcome back :).
You started with one of the more difficult references :lol:. Not really bad, but remember class 2 ? First principle: (at A) further away looks smaller When the VP lies far away, as on the right side, it is not really significant, but IMO there should be more convergence there as well.
B: less obvious, but still: on how many levels can you hold your eye at the same time? :lol:. There can be only one horizon aka eye level. You can have many VP's but they must all lie on the same horizon.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Nov-2010/142886-dice-corr.jpg

The finishing shading is very nice :clap:.

MadParrot
11-19-2010, 01:02 AM
ok - one more try. I sacrificed a piece of big paper to have 'real' vanishing points. I think the perspective works, although the relative sizes of the cubes are a bit off. Think I could get round that by just doing some rough sketches first to get them right, I did a few afterwards (not shown) which looked a bit better scale-wise.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Nov-2010/80616-dice2.jpg
Thanks again for your help arnould - feedback is so useful.

arnoud3272
11-19-2010, 04:29 AM
Madparrot -
Excellent :clap:.
You may move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

MadParrot
11-20-2010, 05:05 AM
cheers arnould, appreciated.

iqaluit
11-30-2010, 06:32 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Nov-2010/216117-cubes1.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Nov-2010/216117-cubes2.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Nov-2010/216117-cubes3.jpg

iqaluit
11-30-2010, 06:36 PM
Here are some of my first attempts with lesson 3. The milk carton gave me some trouble toward the top where the edge begins to curve toward the cap, I think I lost track of the cube at this point. Also I noticed that the milk carton needs some work on the lower edge of the label ( after posting it ). I wanted to detail the headstone but decided to get feed back on the prelim sketch first. Thanks in advance for your thoughts and all the work you put into these lessons
Iqaluit

arnoud3272
12-01-2010, 03:51 PM
iqaluit -
Good job :clap:.
You got a good handle on perspective, except in one instance. To be sure, the exact treatment of this case is on a higher level than this class, but remember the general principle: further away looks smaller.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Dec-2010/142886-iqaluit-silo-corr.jpg

The exact application of perspective on the roofs is not basic, and it would moreover result in an unpleasant distortion. In fact, 1PP is not a good choice for this picture. An older name for 1PP is "central perspective". In this case the VP is too far out. Or in other words, this is not looking "down the road"(1PP), it is rather looking "across the corner" (2PP).
The best "artistic" solution for the roofs here is as you did for the main roof: draw the sloping edges more or less parallel. That is also the classic Chinese and Japanese "perspective".
But I can see that you understand the cubic forms very well, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

iqaluit
12-02-2010, 12:43 PM
Thanks Arnoud, I will keep all your advice in mind as I continue to the next set of lessons.
Cheers

djaquay
12-05-2010, 05:51 PM
These are scans of the intermediate stages of my two drawings, so far. I wanted to try out the transfer thing, and this seemed like a decent place in both of them to get to, and also to ask if I've got the perspective right.

The reference photo for the bridge (by Anirudh Koul) is at this page on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/anirudhkoul/3499471010/in/faves-djaquay/), and is licensed under a CC-BY-NC license.

Dave

arnoud3272
12-06-2010, 04:05 AM
Dave -
The perspective is correct :thumbsup:. But you got a bit carried away: I don't know any carpenter who would be able to build this following your design :lol::

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Dec-2010/142886-dave-corr.jpg

:wave:

djaquay
12-12-2010, 10:01 AM
Dave -
The perspective is correct :thumbsup:. But you got a bit carried away: I don't know any carpenter who would be able to build this following your design :lol::


Yeah, it's funny how little things like creep in there, when you're not paying attention :)

Dave

arnoud3272
12-12-2010, 10:16 AM
:thumbsup:

newkidontheblock
01-01-2011, 08:29 PM
Hi, I do find perspective within cubes quite difficult, but I have kept persisting and am quite happy with my end results.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Jan-2011/500681-3cubes1.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Jan-2011/500681-3cubes_2.JPG


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Jan-2011/500681-3cubes3.JPG
Will follow with a building.
Thanks,Lyn

newkidontheblock
01-01-2011, 08:34 PM
Hi
This must have taken me a couple of hours to do. At first I hated it but then after drawing in more and more vanishing point lines I was able to see where the lines were wrong and so changed them. I am much happier with the final result, especially since this is the first building I have ever done. It is on newsprint so sorry the colour is horrible. Did you want to see my reference photo as well? Thanks, Lyn
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Jan-2011/500681-3cubes_4.JPG

arnoud3272
01-02-2011, 08:50 AM
Lyn -
Nicely done. You're very dedicated :thumbsup:.
Your drawing of the building is very well executed :clap:.
Please move on to class 4 :music:.

newkidontheblock
01-02-2011, 08:59 PM
Arnoud, Thank you. See you in class 4.

fransua
02-03-2011, 09:57 AM
Heya arnoud,long time no see :p I did a little sketch of a house + coloured it in pastels,hopefully pespective is fine


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Feb-2011/638002-DSC05425.JPG

arnoud3272
02-03-2011, 11:23 AM
Fransua -
Very well done :clap:.
The perspective is well analyzed:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Feb-2011/142886-fransua-house.JPG

In fact, it could be better IRL, because you got an obvious camera distortion :(. Try to take your pictures from a larger distance, using the zoom function. Best put the camera on a tripod, and use the self-timer -- to avoid motion blur :).

fransua
02-03-2011, 04:08 PM
Oh,I just took photo from the web :( didn't know about that. What should I do next ?;p

arnoud3272
02-03-2011, 04:15 PM
Oh,I just took photo from the web :lol::lol: I meant the photo of your drawing.
OK, "a few" drawings are expected in the fundamental (1 through 6) classes :).

Karshia
02-07-2011, 02:49 PM
I have my first sketch completed. But I am confused on this point:

If I want to develop this picture further I simply take a sheet of tracing paper, lay it over the sketch and trace the sketch lines onto the tracing paper—I can then make my perspective corrections onto the tracing paper prior to transfer—I use a heavy vellum to do this.. I then will rub graphite on the opposite side and transfer my corrected drawing to the “Good paper “ and then will proceed in whatever media that I want.
Wouldn't rubbing the graphite onto the opposite side make the drawing reversed/backwards? What *is* the best method to transfer onto "good paper"?

arnoud3272
02-07-2011, 06:19 PM
Wouldn't rubbing the graphite onto the opposite side make the drawing reversed/backwards? What *is* the best method to transfer onto "good paper"? Rubbing (soft) graphite at the back of your sketch makes it a kind of DIY "carbon paper". Then you put it - correct side up - on the good paper. More here (http://thevirtualinstructor.com/transfer-drawing.html)

There is no "best" method :).

Karshia
02-07-2011, 06:50 PM
Thank you so much. I finally get it.

Karshia
02-09-2011, 08:31 PM
Gazebo from my backyard. This is what I was using the tracing for. It worked very well. The drawing was too technical, so I tried to add some shading and lines to it. I'm not sure it worked, but my daughter could tell it was a gazebo, so at least that's something.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Feb-2011/337891-Gazebo.jpg

Karshia
02-09-2011, 08:33 PM
Here are my dice. Something is wrong with them. I measured them and tried to correct it. Maybe my shading went too far over the lines.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Feb-2011/337891-Dice.jpg

arnoud3272
02-10-2011, 08:45 AM
Katie -
The gazebo is very well drawn :clap:.
Here are my dice. Something is wrong with them. I measured them and tried to correct it. Maybe my shading went too far over the lines. Ha. The perspective construction is correct: the blue and green lines should converge to the same point, strictly speaking, but that is only visible when reconstructing the VL's :).
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Feb-2011/142886-katie-Dice-corr.jpg


What is wrong? Something that is not treated mathematically in this basic class, but you can understand and correct it intuitively. As indeed you feel that it is not correct now. It is the depth of the horizontal planes, the so-called foreshortening. Take this experiment: put a little box or a book on the table (dice are too small for this exercise) and walk towards it and back again. Where do you see the most of the top plane, nearby or at a distance? Observe how it is exactly the opposite of what you drew.
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

Karshia
02-12-2011, 12:57 PM
I understand now. I tried to make some more dice/cubes with that in mind so they looked better. I still missed something. They don't look the same shape... but I think they came out a little better.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Feb-2011/337891-Dice2.jpg

Karshia
02-12-2011, 12:58 PM
I also tried a study with the VP's being close together and further apart... trying to figure out how to make objects look more realistic. Feels like a guessing game sometimes.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Feb-2011/337891-Beds.jpg

Karshia
02-12-2011, 01:00 PM
And here is my gazebo. I sat in my backyard drawing this one. I really liked my initial sketch... but when I did measurements on a new sheet of paper, the shape kind of morphed.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Feb-2011/337891-Gazebo2.jpg

inkslinger427
02-12-2011, 02:30 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Feb-2011/556291-castle1.JPG this is not finished, but I need some help. There is some issue with the tower that I cant put my finger on. I believe it's in the upper curved area, where the balcony is. I think the curve is a little off but I'm not sure and don't know how to check. can you help?

arnoud3272
02-12-2011, 04:31 PM
Katie -
Very nice work, you are really dedicated :thumbsup:.
The dice are not bad at all, they are just a bit too deep to be believable as cubes. But they are all in proportion to each other :clap:. I shortened them all a bit, now IMO they "read" as cubes :):
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Feb-2011/142886-katie-Dice2.jpg

About the distance between 2 VP's: it is not so much a guessing game :lol:, there are simple guidelines. First of all, if one VP is very far off, the other logically lies more or less in the drawing itself, and it will look good anyway, like for instance in your drawing of the gazebo.
If both are outside the drawing, like in the drawing of the bed, you may be sure that it looks natural - viewing the drawing from a logical distance - if the angle between the imaginary lines from the viewer to the 2 VP's is about 90 degrees. There is a lot of latitude, but you will concede that in the second drawing, that angle is by far more acute.
You worked very hard in this class, now move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

arnoud3272
02-12-2011, 04:42 PM
Tim -
Good job already :thumbsup:.
There is some issue with the tower that I cant put my finger on Patience, patience, cylinders are for next class :lol:. But speaking in general, the three ellipses in each balcony are about at the same distance of the horizon. So, if one of the three looks good, correct the other 2 such that they are parallel :).
But I see another issue; I'm not conversant with the architect, so I could be mistaken. But I think that the edges where the red VL's originate are horizontal. In that case they should converge to a VP on the same level as the blue VL's. I choose the blue lines as more correct, because they tally with the intuitive eye level, looking from the top of the hill. The red ones would assume that you look from inside the earth :evil:.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Feb-2011/142886-tim-castle1.JPG

:wave:

Karshia
02-12-2011, 06:47 PM
Thank you, Arnoud. I really liked your explanation of the distance between VP's. I've never heard it explained like that before. And it makes so much sense! See you in Class 4!

inkslinger427
02-12-2011, 08:38 PM
I truly am glad you showed me those errors! It led me to find a bunch more minor defects in my drawing ( I'm sure theres still a slew more I'm not even aware of) and this is were its at. If this is ok for the class, then I'm gonna stop for now.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Feb-2011/556291-castle3.JPG :crossfingers:

arnoud3272
02-13-2011, 06:43 AM
Tim -
Nice work :clap:.
The purpose of classes 3 through 6 is to learn to decompose - and reconstruct - what you see in terms of abstract 3D shapes resembling cubes, cylinders, spheres, cones. So, several sketches are better practice than continuing to sweat on the same drawing :). Of course, it's not the intention to become sloppy, it's also important to improve the pencil handling skills at the same time.
:wave:

inkslinger427
02-13-2011, 02:15 PM
for my next sad attempt, this is a view of my little (teeny, tiny) workshop. I do some wood working, some welding, a bunch of wrenching and some remodeling. This is the place where I do it. I have more stuff in my shop, and I've grown weary of drawing and now want to play with my toys! I hope this passes muster! :D
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Feb-2011/556291-a_good_shop.JPG

inkslinger427
02-13-2011, 02:43 PM
I saw a few things when I posted, so I corrected and heres a re-submit. I fixed the 2 bottom toolbox drawers, added light over workbench and developed some of the shadows. :crossfingers:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Feb-2011/556291-a_good_shop_2.JPG

arnoud3272
02-13-2011, 04:10 PM
Tim -
Very well done :clap:.
this is a view of my little (teeny, tiny) workshop
Not only tiny but also tidy :), you should see my workshop :lol:. (More towards metal working: lathe, drill press, brazing and welding equipment, big vise, small anvil - and chaos :()
I have more stuff in my shop, and I've grown weary of drawing and now want to play with my toys! No need to rush, take it easy :thumbsup:. The original setup of this classroom was one class per week. For the more advanced classes it was later expanded to 2 weeks per class, on general request.
You were very dedicated, good job; please move on to class 4 - at your own pace :wink2:.

inkslinger427
02-13-2011, 04:35 PM
Thanks Arnoud, for the encouragment and advice. Trust me thats not how my shop normally looks. I just couldn't figure out how to draw all the cluter and mess! so I spent about 1 hour "arranging" my still life! Thank you again for all the help, advice input and hand holding. Give yourself an awesome big pat on the Back!

kreativekate
03-08-2011, 08:26 PM
Finally got the barn done. Will be a while before I get the other cube drawings done as I have an horrendous week or two coming up.
The corner of the book is turned up on the photo and making it look a bit skewed but it's not IRL.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Mar-2011/202891-barn_kate.jpg

arnoud3272
03-09-2011, 07:51 AM
:thumbsup:

Magdalena Ladwik
04-28-2011, 06:29 PM
Hello :wave: there is what I have done for class 3.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Apr-2011/952977-cubes.JPG (http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/Uploader/upload_image_save2.php#)
the silo

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Apr-2011/952977-silo.JPG (http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/Uploader/upload_image_save2.php#)

and pencil sharpener with ref. photo

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Apr-2011/952977-third.JPG (http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/Uploader/upload_image_save2.php#)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Apr-2011/952977-ref.JPG (http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/Uploader/upload_image_save2.php#)
Thank You for Your time and patience.
Magdalena

arnoud3272
04-29-2011, 04:12 PM
Magdalena -
Well done :thumbsup:. The cubic forms are very well drawn. There is an issue with the roofs. Those are not cubic, and the geometrical treatment of the perspective of oblique planes does not belong to a basic class. But I can advice you of two different ways:
-- intuitively: further away looks smaller . Not always necessary to express it clearly, but the opposite jumps out. The ridge of a roof is further away than the gutter, you got it in the opposite way:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Apr-2011/142886-magdalena-silo.JPG

-- more formally: many straight but not cubic forms can be imagined in a rectangular container. Put the container in correct perspective and you have a good idea how to draw them.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Apr-2011/142886-contrainer.jpg
You understood the fundamentals of this class clearly enough, please move on to class 4 :clap:.

Magdalena Ladwik
04-30-2011, 06:50 AM
oh no, I can see it clearly now :cat:Thank You Arnoud, now I will keep it in mind. See You in class 4!

Magdalena Ladwik
05-07-2011, 01:42 PM
Magdalena -
There is an issue with the roofs. Those are not cubic, and the geometrical treatment of the perspective of oblique planes does not belong to a basic class.

Arnoud I am sorry for bothering You and I hope that my question is not off topic, but can I find it in non-basic classes? And I found out from Yours other posts, that there are 2 classes about shading:101-8 and 102-8. Are there any other classes about shading?

Best regards
Magdalena

arnoud3272
05-08-2011, 12:35 PM
Magdalena -
More advanced aspects of perspective can be discussed in class 102-1, "Intermediate Perspective". Perspective of oblique planes is not yet included, but it would be a good place to start it.
You can find an advanced treatment of perspective in many books. Some are freely available as a download, for instance "Successful Drawing" by Andrew Loomis (http://www.placidchaos.com/AM/index.php/2006/02/21/andrew_loomis). With this book you get also a lot of instruction on other aspects of drawing.

The two classes on shading cover the complete theory, the rest is practice, practice, practice :lol:.

Magdalena Ladwik
05-09-2011, 04:26 AM
Thank You Arnoud for your help and answer. Yes, I think I am going to read this book sooner or later. Have a nice day :wave:

Sandra39
05-12-2011, 08:53 PM
Hi Arnoud;
It's about time for me to continue my quest for better drawing. I chose a photo from RIL of FLIMSTON CHAPEL by Oldrockchick. I wanted to get away from doing the barn to do something easier and not to be repetitive with someone else. Boy! was I wrong. This is not easy at all because of the cantilever and entrance into the chapel plus the weird position of the building.
I can see that the light is coming from the right (our right) side of the building. We are able to see the right side of the cantilever and of the entrance. We can even see a bit of the right side of the little structure on the roof (I think it's the smoke stack) but somehow we can not see the right side of the chapel building itself. So I used an artist license to add a little bit of the right side of the building to my finished drawing.
No matter, this is about drawing VP and VL's so I will just concentrate on those, Hoping I got everything correct on my first try.

Thank you Arnoud for being here for us. I really appreciate your time and patience with us.
Sandi C.

arnoud3272
05-13-2011, 04:05 PM
Sandi - Well done :clap:. It is carefully analyzed and rendered with dedicated attention. You're definitely at a good level for this class :thumbsup:. Just one remark on a general aspect: on drawings in a tonal style - that is: rendering complete masses and shades - strong outlines that cannot be interpreted as shadows jump out as incongruent for the style.
Please move on to class 4 :music:.

Sandra39
05-13-2011, 10:21 PM
Arnoud;
Thanks soooo much for your nice comment. Your remark on strong outlines is very well taken. I had a second thought on these strong lines too esp. the one at the corner between the cantilever and the wall. It looks kind of outlandish but then I didn't try to soften it.
I am enjoying these challenging exercises. Please keep these classes going for people who want to learn. You guys are marvelous!

Regards,
Sandi C.

maisygrrl
05-26-2011, 03:26 PM
I drew the silo but am not all that happy with it. I think I've got the angle wrong at the bottom of the right hand side because it looks like the section with the doors is sort of floating. Is there more wrong? It just doesn't look right somehow. (I know it's a little too narrow -- I made it too tall for the width of the paper. It's a little messy, too. :o )

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-May-2011/968565-2011-05-25-silo-resized.jpg

I also made an extremely messy charcoal sketch of a metal box :lol: which I didn't photograph and plan to re-do in pencil, and I'm planning on doing this, too, since I'd like to try another building. (I really want to go back to the dam where I took this and get some more photos.)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-May-2011/968565-oshaughnessy_dam_20090614_03-resized.jpg

arnoud3272
05-27-2011, 06:12 AM
Daisy -
I think I've got the angle wrong at the bottom of the right hand side because it looks like the section with the doors is sort of floating. In this reference sketch it is clearly assumed that the viewer stands very far from the building. The perspective is not very pronounced in that case. But still the principles hold. The bottom converges too quickly compared with the other lines.
And to the other side: the left wall is hidden, so the left corner is farther away than the right. Further away looks smaller. In this case the perspective is so shallow that it is perfectly OK to draw the front lines parallel, but diverging is not correct.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-May-2011/142886-daisy-silo.jpg

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

maisygrrl
05-27-2011, 04:29 PM
Oh, I see now. I kept staring at it and just not seeing that. Thank you!

WIP of some metal boxes (decided to do these before that building). This looks (mostly) right to me as best I can tell -- do you see anything off about it? (edit to add: I can see now that it's on the screen that the left side of the lower box isn't vertical & will fix that before I go any further with it.)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-May-2011/968565-2011-05-26-boxes-draft-resized.jpg

Photo reference:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-May-2011/968565-boxes-resized.jpg

arnoud3272
05-27-2011, 05:21 PM
Daisy - Very good so far :thumbsup:.
do you see anything off about it? It is really nit-picking, but as you ask :):

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-May-2011/142886-daisy-boxes.jpg

:wave:

maisygrrl
05-28-2011, 01:05 PM
And here are the finished boxes. I had some difficulty with the bottom box -- on the right hand side, it was surprisingly hard to draw what I was seeing vs what my brain thought should be there.

I'm off to the country tomorrow for a couple of days (first time I've had two days off in a row in three months, yay!) and bringing my sketchbook with me since I should hopefully have lots of free time for doodling :)



http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-May-2011/968565-2011-05-27-boxes-resized.jpg

arnoud3272
05-29-2011, 08:09 AM
Daisy - Well done :clap:. It is very good to sketch a lot :thumbsup:. You could post some of them in the main D&S forum, there is a common sketching thread (sticky) if you don't want to start your own thread.
For the purposes of this classroom, you are ready for next class. So please move on to class 4 :music:.

RVT
06-17-2011, 02:18 AM
Thanks, Arnoud. Here is my class 3 homework. I will try to draw a building this weekend.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Jun-2011/962581-Untitled-1.jpg

arnoud3272
06-17-2011, 01:39 PM
RVT - Well done :clap:. Everything is fundamentally correct.
Look forward to your next drawing :thumbsup:.

RVT
06-18-2011, 10:29 AM
Here is my drawing for the boxes around you. Please kindly take a look.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jun-2011/962581-church.jpg

arnoud3272
06-18-2011, 05:46 PM
RVT - Nice drawing. The overall "cubic" aspect is correctly executed. But the angles of some details are not consistent with the whole, and that results in a distorted view. It is easier to explain with VL's:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jun-2011/142886-rvt-church-VL.jpg

Still, you did well in this class, please move on to class 4 :thumbsup:

MNClem
08-31-2011, 02:29 PM
Hi Arnoud here is my silos, maybe had to care more about the eye level, lightly different from reference?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Aug-2011/974740-silos0web.jpg

arnoud3272
08-31-2011, 04:58 PM
MNClem - Nice job :clap:.
maybe had to care more about the eye level As an artist you may very well change variable aspects of the reference, such as eye level, direction of lighting, and so. You do it to arrive at a better composition or a stronger expression of the subject. The important thing is to keep it consistent, the same eye level, lighting, etc., everywhere in the picture.
You did it fine here :thumbsup:.

Seriphina
09-20-2011, 08:39 PM
ohai again. So this is a wee house i chose. However I lack tracing paper and was most frustrated with this task. So the first image was my first attempt which was swiftly erased and having now sort of worked into the 2nd image I am again not happy with the angles at the base of the house which make the house look sort of tilted in a way it isn't as well as the length of the windows and other such wee things.
Also I am very aware the bottom left corner of the house doesnt seem to fit with the perspective angles...
I am not friends with perspective...:envy: the cube bit wasn't so difficult but I did focus less on it in the second drawing. I spent a long time on it first time round and felt maybe I shouldn't have... and now I have written you an essay.
Thanks Arnoud <3

arnoud3272
09-21-2011, 12:17 PM
Lauren - Well done :clap:. The perspective is not bad at all :thumbsup:. Only one point to keep in mind: in this style of roof, the top lines are also parallel with the walls, they should converge to the same VP. The bottom lines look a bit strange because you copied the camera distortion. If you look at a house IRL - draw what you see, not what the camera saw :evil: - the walls are vertical. Don't follow the camera, draw the vertical lines vertically.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Sep-2011/142886-seriphina.jpg

The "3PP" perspective is a camera artifact, professional cameras used to have special means to counteract it. Nowadays, with cheap cameras all over the place, people think that 3PP is the norm. It is NOT !! It should only be used for its special effect, for instance in comics.
I'd advise to leave this as is, and try another subject.

Seriphina
09-21-2011, 01:53 PM
haha do you know, before I posted it i adjusted the vertical lines a bit because I thought it looked like the house was sloping and thought it must have just been the way I was sitting when I drew it! Will try something different. tyty! :D

Mahbubani
09-30-2011, 04:53 PM
Hello Arnoud,
Attached is my sketch of the silo.:crossfingers:

arnoud3272
10-01-2011, 04:55 AM
Mona - Good job :thumbsup:. A remark of a general nature, aim at consistency:
-- drawing can be mainly in outlines, with some accents of shading, or, more like painting, in detailed shading. A combination of strong outlines with complete shading is not consistent.
-- buildings drawn in rigorous lines have an architectural style. In that case, the perspective should also be of an architectural quality. In looser drawing, the perspective can also be less strict.
All lines that run parallel to each other converge to the same VP.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Oct-2011/142886-mona-Silo.jpg

Look forward to your next "cubic" drawing :thumbsup:.

ArtbyPeggy
10-03-2011, 04:29 PM
Hello Arnoud :-)

These classes sure are fun and addictive :lol::lol:

Ok,
Here is my silo
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Oct-2011/977655-exercise007.jpg

arnoud3272
10-03-2011, 06:21 PM
Peggy - Nice sketch, good shading :clap:. Now look at it with your newly got powers of perspective :evil:. You drew a toy silo, the eye level is 4 or 5 times higher than the thing. A little more realistic eye level is with the blue VL's. That is even very high, seen from the top of a nearby hill. But the most natural EL, the height of a person from the ground, that is about at the top of the door, will give too much deformation in 1PP. To design it really well, 2PP should be chosen, looking obliquely to the building instead of head on.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Oct-2011/142886-peggy-silo-corr.jpg

But nice try :thumbsup:.

ArtbyPeggy
10-03-2011, 07:28 PM
Hehee...You mean we aren't looking at it from the hill?
So, you want me to do it over :D
How is the 3PP with these dice looking?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Oct-2011/977655-exercise008.jpg

arnoud3272
10-04-2011, 05:04 AM
Peggy -
So, you want me to do it over :D No, the point of view was your choice :). But the choice of eye level is an important design decision. And a steep hill in a grain producing area doesn't look convincing IMO.

As to the dice: you corrected the camera distortion, excellent :clap:. One small error, which is already clear in "freehand", intuitive, perspective: (further away looks smaller)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Oct-2011/142886-peggy-dice-corr-1.jpg

But as you transformed the 3PP photo into a 2PP drawing, I wonder what these lines are doing?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Oct-2011/142886-peggy-dice-corr-2.jpg

Why did you not draw them as this?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Oct-2011/142886-peggy-dice-corr-3.jpg

It makes no difference for the drawing. What is the purpose of these lines? I simply think they are useless decoration. If you don't understand my problem, there is some more discussion in class 2, from post #224 (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=597782&page=15) on.

Keep on the good work :thumbsup:.

ArtbyPeggy
10-04-2011, 04:31 PM
:lol: They were a mistake that I didn't erase. Sorry for the decorations :lol:
Here is my corrected final dice. :crossfingers:
This paper is really bad for shading so sorry about that.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Oct-2011/977655-exercise013.jpg

arnoud3272
10-04-2011, 06:22 PM
Very nice, well done, Peggy :clap:

ArtbyPeggy
10-04-2011, 07:43 PM
Very nice, well done, Peggy :clap:
Thanks for all your help and patience Arnoud. On to class 4 now?

arnoud3272
10-05-2011, 02:59 AM
:thumbsup:

Gingerbread
10-16-2011, 09:40 PM
Arnoud,
I'm enjoying working on these exercises but I'll admit they're a little frustrating some times and often more challenging than at first expected.

Here's my attempt at the dice. I'll give the other items a try later.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Oct-2011/978288-Dice2.jpg

Thanks,
Jennifer
:)

arnoud3272
10-17-2011, 06:37 AM
:thumbsup:

Gingerbread
10-17-2011, 08:29 PM
Hi Arnoud,
Here's my next drawing.

Thanks for your help.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Oct-2011/978288-MyCubehouse.jpg

arnoud3272
10-18-2011, 05:13 AM
Jennifer - Nicely done :clap:.
Two small comments, related to perspective :evil:. Perspective deviations are very obvious in cubic forms.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Oct-2011/142886-jennifer-silo-corr.jpg

Remember the rote:
A. further away looks smaller
B. there is only one horizon

Keep it up :thumbsup:.

Gingerbread
10-18-2011, 09:51 PM
Arnoud,

Thanks so much for reviewing this. I understand the concept of farther away is smaller but I still missed the mark. Ugh. Here's another go at it.
Not sure if I ended with only one horizon :)



.
Jennifer

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Oct-2011/978288-MyCubehouse9.jpg

arnoud3272
10-19-2011, 06:14 AM
Jennifer - Almost there :thumbsup:. One side is correct now.
Not sure if I ended with only one horizon Let's take a different approach. Perspective, I mean all the VL constructions, is not very important in itself for artists. But it helps to develop an important skill, the ability to "see", to "read", 3-dimensional forms correctly. If you "see" that in the 3-D world the red lines run in the same direction as, parallel to, the blue lines, it becomes clear that they must converge in the same manner, to the same VP, when drawn "in perspective".
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Oct-2011/142886-jennifer-silo-corr2.jpg
:)

Gingerbread
10-20-2011, 03:05 PM
Arnoud,
Thanks for the feedback on the horizon. I straightened out the door at the top now in hopes of better aligning it.

Here it is.

:)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Oct-2011/978288-Mycube_10202011_2.JPG

arnoud3272
10-20-2011, 05:18 PM
Jennifer - :thumbsup:

Gingerbread
10-20-2011, 05:41 PM
Arnoud, thank you.
:)

Gingerbread
10-21-2011, 10:36 AM
Arnoud,
Should I try another drawing or move onto the next class?

Thanks again for your help.

arnoud3272
10-21-2011, 12:33 PM
Arnoud,
Should I try another drawing or move onto the next class?
This class is possibly the most important of the foundation classes, so it would pay to try another drawing. But it is OK with me if you prefer to move on :thumbsup:.

Gingerbread
10-22-2011, 01:02 PM
Arnoud,
This has been challenging so here's another drawing. I understand the concept somewhat better but I still struggle putting it on paper. I made the clock bigger and the glass smaller.

Thank you for taking the time to give me your c&cs. :)

Jennifer

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Oct-2011/978288-MyClockPerspective3.jpg

arnoud3272
10-23-2011, 05:23 AM
Jennifer - You're doing very well :thumbsup:.
I've a slight remark on the top of the clock, there should be more convergence here.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Oct-2011/142886-jennifer-Clock-corr.jpg

For your development, I suggest to try and see it also without the VL's. If you switch your gaze swiftly between top and bottom of the clock, do you see it looks twisted?

You understand the cubic forms well, please move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

Gingerbread
10-23-2011, 09:58 AM
Arnoud,
My poor twisted clock. :( I couldn't tell why it looked twisted until you pointed out the lack of sufficient convergence at the top.

I appreciate your help tremendously.
Thank you.
Jennifer :)

latedrawer
11-13-2011, 12:05 AM
The two images below are really from one 12X18 drawing done on newsprint. My scanner isn't big enough to capture the entire image so I did it in two parts. I did this drawing in my "backroom." I plan to do other drawings for this class in the same room. But I want to make sure I'm on the right track before I attempt any more.

This drawing was the first time I felt somewhat successful at using big shapes to start out a drawing. Suddenly, information I'd been reading and all your posts I've read began to make sense--meaning I felt like I was really applying the technique. I know it's not perfect, but I'm excited anyway! The most satisfying part of the drawing was the stool. It seemed like I could almost visualize it within the box. So I'm really looking forward to your comments to help me understand what I need to do to keep developing this basic technique:)
Carole
694177

694178

arnoud3272
11-13-2011, 08:07 AM
Carole - Very well done :clap::clap:. No doubt that you understand the cubic forms well.
As to the two scans, you can stitch them together. Well, not with that sewing machine :lol: - but with an image manipulation program:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Nov-2011/142886-carole-desk_stool.jpeg

You're on a very satisfactory level for this class, please move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

Jelleau
11-13-2011, 07:33 PM
I see cubes everywhere nowadays, lol. I do that on the way to work every morning now, break things down into cubes. Anyways here are my attempts...


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Nov-2011/980243-Dice_800x583.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Nov-2011/980243-DSCF4778_800x600.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Nov-2011/980243-cubes_800x583.jpg

arnoud3272
11-14-2011, 06:11 PM
Very well done, Gabriela :clap:. You clearly have a good eye for cubic forms.
Please move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

sirOwlBeak
12-09-2011, 05:41 PM
Hello,

Professional life kept me busy again. So I took my time again to make a few new drawings. I did another piece of furniture and the dice from the first post. However, the dice are not fully complete. As I will try my hand on the shading of the surface this weekend. So it probably isn't a bad idea to post the results in between.

reference of the sofa:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Dec-2011/980537-sofa.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Dec-2011/980537-Photo_7-12-11_17_10_32.jpeg

and the dice:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Dec-2011/980537-Photo_9-12-11_22_31_12.jpeg

I'm I right when I say that the picture of the dice is made in a 3 point perspective?

arnoud3272
12-09-2011, 06:18 PM
sirOwlBeak - Well done :clap:, you got the correct forms.
Yes, those dice are in 3PP. According to traditional, academic criteria, this is an error, a camera distortion (camera hold too close). But a nice exercise. Even a better exercise would be to correct that distortion :lol:

jrl11528
12-09-2011, 11:08 PM
Arnoud,

This is probably not within the scope of this class, but I have a question.

In the previous lesson I was reading some of the earlier posts, and you had posted a link to http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8482170 where you showed regression on a bridge with a series of arches. I am geeky enough that I was intrigued, and when looking for alternates for the cube drawing I found this one of a covered bridge that looks like a fun exercise.

Either I have misunderstood the regression process, or there is something else going on.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Dec-2011/979730-Regression_Question.JPG I will probably use this for one of my exercises for this class regardless, but if you can point out what I was doing wrong here it would be much appreciated.

Thank you again for your kind efforts in these classes.

Jim

arnoud3272
12-10-2011, 05:30 AM
Jim - Good for you to try things out :clap:.
if you can point out what I was doing wrong here it would be much appreciated Nothing wrong in the method, but a slight inaccuracy at the starting position is amplified by the repetition:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Dec-2011/142886-Regression_Question-corr.JPG

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

jrl11528
12-10-2011, 10:38 AM
As in life, the devil is in the details.:D

Thank you for the illustration. I will definitely use this as one of my exercises.

jrl11528
12-11-2011, 12:08 AM
OK, here is part one of my exercises. I tried to correct some of the camera distortion mentioned above. That was trickier than it seemed like it should be, but here is my attempt.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Dec-2011/979730-lesson3dice.jpg On the paper it looked like there was more of a value difference between the top and rear faces. I guess I need to study the link on improving contrast in scans more, because it didn't work this time (Downloaded GIMP but I am not very familiar with sophisticated image manipulation, but I will get there).

Regards
Jim

arnoud3272
12-11-2011, 11:31 AM
Jim - Very nice, good job :clap:.
Downloaded GIMP but I am not very familiar with sophisticated image manipulation There is a very good tutorial on GIMP here (http://gimp-savvy.com/BOOK/index.html). It is not based on the last version, but the differences are obvious.
:thumbsup:

wendyc1276
12-11-2011, 04:26 PM
Here is my shot at the dice pic. It was much harder than it looks, and some of the proportions and angles still seem a little off.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Dec-2011/201691-dice2.jpg

arnoud3272
12-11-2011, 06:49 PM
Wendy - Well done, nice shading :clap:.
It was much harder than it looks, and some of the proportions and angles still seem a little off. There is a relatively simple method to get correct angles, perspective :evil:
You did mostly very well, only error is dice B to the right.
The proportions are difficult because of the foreshortening. That is something practice and experience will teach you. What you did is changing the orientation of dice B in comparison to the reference (that's OK), but you kept the same foreshortening. But its orientation is now more or less symmetrical, so the foreshortening should be the same left and right.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Dec-2011/142886-wendy-dice-corr.jpg

:thumbsup:

wendyc1276
12-12-2011, 03:43 PM
Here is my basic drawing of the clock scene.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Dec-2011/201691-clock.jpg

wendyc1276
12-12-2011, 05:18 PM
Here is my sketch of the silo...still need a little work.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Dec-2011/201691-silo.jpg

arnoud3272
12-12-2011, 07:05 PM
Wendy - Looks good :thumbsup:.
One rather apparent error in perspective on the clock wall: the tiles on the counter logically have the same orientation as the bricks, i.e. all those grout lines belong to the same set of parallel edges. They cannot have different VP's

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Dec-2011/142886-wendy-clock-corr.jpg

Otherwise you're doing very well :clap:.

astropaint
12-12-2011, 08:18 PM
Hi Arnoud,

Here is my first assignment: Silo. Please kindly provide your feedback.

Thanks in advance for all your help!

jrl11528
12-12-2011, 09:31 PM
Cubes are everywhere.

My little corner of the garage. (Artistic license invoked. Ignored all the junk that's piled there and the things waiting to be fixed......)

Here is another part of my lesson.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Dec-2011/979730-Lesson3Garage.jpg

astropaint
12-13-2011, 07:44 AM
Hi Arnoud,

Here is my 2nd assignment of dice. Please review.

Thank you so much!

arnoud3272
12-13-2011, 12:13 PM
Jim - Very good :clap:.

astro - Good job too :clap:.

muldi
12-14-2011, 05:04 PM
Hi Arnoud, Here is my reference photo of a house near us and my drawing. I've never spent thiis long on a drawing and I still think there is something not quite right, but I'm out of gas and need feedback. Thanks, Diane
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Dec-2011/215828-P1000271.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Dec-2011/215828-P1000287.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Dec-2011/215828-P1000289.JPG
This is a second drawing, correcting what I saw as problems with the first, but I still feel it's not quite right.
Thanks for your feedback and help, Diane

arnoud3272
12-14-2011, 07:06 PM
Diane - Good job :clap:.
You corrected already most errors :thumbsup:, one was left:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Dec-2011/142886-diane-house-corr.JPG

The reason why it looks a bit strange is that you changed the perspective from 2PP to 1PP, without changing the viewing direction. It is basically a matter of aesthetics, 1PP does not look nice when the VP is far off to one side. In fact, originally it was called "central perspective".
Keep it up :thumbsup:

astropaint
12-14-2011, 09:08 PM
Here is my 3rd assignment of the clock. Please review and provide your feedback. Thanks in advance for all your help!

muldi
12-15-2011, 01:14 AM
Arnoud, Thanks! I can see it now. Dice will be coming next. Diane

arnoud3272
12-15-2011, 06:48 AM
astro - Well done :clap:.
Only remark is on the face of the clock, looks squashed. It is too wide for its height.
You did very well in this class, please move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

astropaint
12-15-2011, 10:28 AM
Hi Arnoud,

Thank you so much!!! See you in the next class.

wendyc1276
12-16-2011, 04:17 PM
Arnoud - I've corrected my clock drawing and also added a pencil case I sketched from life. Thanks!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Dec-2011/201691-clock2.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Dec-2011/201691-img040.jpg

arnoud3272
12-16-2011, 04:24 PM
Wendy - Very good :clap:.
You understood the cubic form very well. Please move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

muldi
12-17-2011, 03:20 PM
Hi Arnoud, Here are two pictures of my dice. One is a close up. I had trouble getting the page straight in the camera. This was a hard lesson.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Dec-2011/215828-P1000295.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Dec-2011/215828-P1000294.JPG

Thank you, Diane

arnoud3272
12-17-2011, 05:46 PM
Diane - The drawing is correct :clap:, but this preparatory construction is totally off :(.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Dec-2011/142886-diane-dice-corr.JPG

You cannot bend a vanishing line. If there is no convergence - because you drew the vertical edges in parallel - do not imagine a vanishing point, there is none.
The theory is wrong, but as I said, the result is OK :thumbsup:.

muldi
12-17-2011, 07:11 PM
Ok. Thanks. I see what I did. I wasn't trying to bend it, but I was using the bottom of the cubes towards a vanishing point below.
I can see your point. I see I shouldn't even have a lower vanishing point because my eye level is above the object. I won't make that mistake again!
Can I go on to lesson 4 or is there more you want me to do?
Thanks. Diane

arnoud3272
12-18-2011, 08:46 AM
Diane -
I see I shouldn't even have a lower vanishing point because my eye level is above the object Not quite :(. There is no low VP because the lines that are vertical in real life were drawn vertically, no convergence.
OK, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:

muldi
12-18-2011, 09:30 AM
Thanks, Arnoud. OK. I see that. On to four.

crafor
12-19-2011, 09:40 PM
Hello Arnoud,
This is part of lesson 3, cubes. I'm still spending time on lesson 2 as well as reading here and other forums. Two things that became underlined for me are, I'm learning to see some of my errors more quickly so I have a chance to correct them, and that I can't even draw a short line segment straight without a ruler. But now I can see that, and know it's importance. I mentioned reading because one of the posters in another forum had a painting to be critiqued. She said one child looked stiff, though it was like the reference photo. When the ref photo was set next to her boy, one could see some slight changes in hers. Her response was that she knew that, but didn't think it mattered. But she was brought (as I was) to the realization that her tiny little changes made her rendition look stiff. Those little things count. I've become more detail oriented because of this series of classes. It's part of what has been missing in MY work all these years. And I have SO-O far to go yet.
Crafor

arnoud3272
12-20-2011, 09:19 AM
crafor - Good job :thumbsup:.
Speaking of details, for clean rectangular objects, it is very important that the perspective is correct - well, at least consistent. On the chest, most edges look good but some VL's run in the wrong direction:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2011/142886-crafor-chest-corr.JPG

Another advice: don't work too small. The dice can be drawn in correct perspective in the size you did them, but it takes careful observation.
There is a lack of convergence in general, and some VL's cross in the wrong place.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2011/142886-crafor-dice-corr.JPG


Practice makes perfect :)

jrl11528
12-20-2011, 10:37 PM
Arnoud,

Attached are two attempts at the covered bridge. Once I started to draw the bridge, I didn't like where the photographer stood, so I attempted to move the observer and shift the VP's a bit. The first attempt I think was overdone, but I sort of like the second.

I hope you tell me to move on to class 4, because I now feel a definite urge to draw a slinky.

Jim
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2011/979730-lesson3bridge1.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2011/979730-lesson3bridge3.jpg

arnoud3272
12-21-2011, 06:34 AM
Jim - Extremely well done :clap::clap:.
Yes, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

crafor
12-27-2011, 06:09 PM
Hello, Arnoud,
attached are the silo and the brick wall display. I transferred the clock to that paper. It is nice to have that tool rather than risk messing up what is a decent drawing otherwise. WHY am I having such a hard time with this? After a few false starts, I think I finally nailed the wall...
Craforhttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Dec-2011/978289-IMG.jpg


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Dec-2011/978289-IMG_0001.jpg

Will add more later.
thanks,
Crafor

arnoud3272
12-28-2011, 04:17 AM
Good job, Crafor :clap:
You made it tougher to draw by changing the height - width proportions of the wall / clock.
Well done.
You may move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

757jewelry
01-08-2012, 01:57 PM
I liked the die... hope it came out alright.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jan-2012/64952-1326045145-picsay.jpg

Grinning Chuckster
01-08-2012, 08:11 PM
Perspective has always been a problem for me. I can't seem to get the hang of how to get the sides of a building to fit with the front. can you help me with this? There is the overhang of the roof/steeple. A bit lower, there is an outcropping with a clock in it. Is this outcropping supposed to be parallel to the overhang of the roof/steeple?


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jan-2012/984157-church_lesson_3.jpg Cheers!
Chuckster

arnoud3272
01-09-2012, 11:54 AM
Brittany and Chuckster -
You have still problems with perspective. But this classroom assumes that we discuss problems in the relevant thread. Do not rush, perspective is treated in class 2. Please finish class 2 first.

LindaGal
01-14-2012, 05:34 AM
OK attempted the cubes and did the transfer thing from one to the other with tracing paper - but not happy with my attempt as I seemed to have lost a bit of the perspective?? and then once i started to put darks on - have to be really careful with smudging! The cubes were tricky without those defined lines on some of the edges - trying to bring out the white - not there yet! but this is a lesson on perspective not the other stuff!! Think the scan was a bit blurry as well.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jan-2012/974162-dice.jpg

arnoud3272
01-14-2012, 09:04 AM
Linda -
Nicely done:clap:.
I seemed to have lost a bit of the perspective?? With a correct perspective worked out in the preliminary sketch, it suffices to check the obvious: further away looks smaller. I emphasized it but I could see it without VL's, so probably more people would find it odd, even without knowing why.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jan-2012/142886-linda-dice-corr.jpg

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

lisaastrup
01-21-2012, 09:27 AM
Hi Arnoud.

here is my silo, I hope its OK ?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Jan-2012/79005-lade.jpg

lisaastrup
01-21-2012, 05:28 PM
here is my cubes:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Jan-2012/79005-terning.jpg

arnoud3272
01-22-2012, 12:11 PM
Lisa - Well done :clap::clap:.
The perspective is technically OK. Just a small remark from a composition / artistic interpretation point: the eye level for your silo is very high. A silo is already a tall building, and now we are looking down on it :(. Better put the EL somewhere on people's height, which on buildings is around the top of the door as a rule.
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

lisaastrup
01-22-2012, 01:09 PM
Hi Arnoud.

Thanks for your comments and your hard work here.

Here is a freehand drawing I made today, I hope its OK.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jan-2012/79005-reol.jpg

arnoud3272
01-24-2012, 06:29 PM
Lisa - Good job :clap:.
Please move on to class 4 :thumbsup:

lisaastrup
01-24-2012, 06:42 PM
Lisa - Good job :clap:.
Please move on to class 4 :thumbsup:


Thanks Arnoud :wave:

Felisa
02-21-2012, 03:23 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Feb-2012/122109-cubic_ob..jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Feb-2012/122109-clock.jpg

Arnoud, here are the assignments for this class. Thank you for your help.

arnoud3272
02-21-2012, 06:27 PM
Elisa - Nice work. Good start on the shading. My only remark is about the perspective. I know, I know, but errors in perspective on cubic forms result in a very conspicuous deformation, for instance the base of the clock: http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Feb-2012/142886-elisa-clock-corr.jpg WetCanvas is behaving very badly for the moment, so I quit for now.

mayana
02-21-2012, 08:35 PM
Hello Arnoud,
Here are my HW, thanks teacher!:)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Feb-2012/164039-dadu_n_barn.jpg


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Feb-2012/164039-watch.jpg

arnoud3272
02-22-2012, 08:29 AM
mayana - Well done. You're ready to move on to the next class. One remark, of a more artistic nature: the perspective is correct, but observe how there is an unpleasant distortion, particularly on the clock itself. That is because you've designed the VP's much too close together. Additionally, in the reference the clock is positioned differently, more towards the viewer, i.e. with its right VP still father away than the VP of the bricks/tiles. Please move on to class 4.

Felisa
02-22-2012, 10:28 AM
Arnoud, here are the dice. I will "repair" the clock and post it again.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Feb-2012/122109-dice.jpg

The frront dice shares the same EL though it may not be clear. Also the perpendicular lines to the floor should be all parallel. I am not sure whether they do look so in the picture. Thank you.

arnoud3272
02-22-2012, 03:59 PM
Elisa - this is very nicely done. The perspective is well understood, but not all proportions can be trapped in a formula. Well, only a few to be sure... Try to develop a good eye for what "looks good". The left dice looks good indeed, but the right one does not really look like a cube, it is not "deep" enough. I like how you corrected the camera distortion.

Felisa
02-22-2012, 05:08 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Feb-2012/122109-clk.jpg

Arnoud, I did again the lines of the clock, I hope that is better now.
I understand what you mean about the dice. It is obvious that it looks more like a rectangular box and I don´t know why I did not spot it.
Thank you for your help.

arnoud3272
02-22-2012, 06:24 PM
Elisa - You did a fine job in this class. Please move on to class 4.

Mahbubani
05-01-2012, 05:25 PM
Hello Arnoud,
Here is my drawing of the dice.
MOna

demitas
05-02-2012, 11:42 AM
I thought I would post the line-only version to make sure I'm on the right track before doing any shading (and also to make my perspective errors glaringly obvious :) ) I used the graphite tracing method to clean up my lines, which I found a little cumbersome; I think if I were to use the tracing method often I would try to find/make a lightbox instead.

Still need to draw my cube-ish objects, too!

arnoud3272
05-02-2012, 05:26 PM
Mona - Well done :clap:. I like how you "corrected" the camera distortions :thumbsup:

arnoud3272
05-02-2012, 05:57 PM
demitas - Good job so far :thumbsup:. There is one detail that looks odd in the line drawing.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-May-2012/142886-demitas-clock-corr.jpg

Take care to draw the other side symmetrically when shading.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-May-2012/142886-clock-detail.jpg

Or else, just ignore this decoration, you are the first to copy it :lol:.
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

demitas
05-04-2012, 02:35 PM
Whoops! Thanks for the reminder. :) I've tried to pick it up in the shaded version.

I think the clock face is not quite right, but circles are next class, right? :)

Thank you so much for all your hard work here!

arnoud3272
05-04-2012, 05:44 PM
Very nice rendering, demitas :clap::clap:. Well done :thumbsup:.

netta13542
05-11-2012, 03:22 PM
I was have a question how to transfer onto the "good" paper. Can someone give me some suggestions. I tried the grid method but I know I am heavy handed and I see the lines on my work still.

arnoud3272
05-11-2012, 06:15 PM
Netta - First post of this thread:

I then will rub graphite on the opposite side and transfer my corrected drawing to the “Good paper “ and then will proceed in whatever media that I want. You may also do the transfer via graphite paper, light table, or by taping the paper to a glass door or window and using it as a “natural light table”. You can also transfer by grid or by compass

netta13542
05-15-2012, 04:11 AM
Here are m y cubic drawings. I tried the tracing paper method but I tried the grid method but im too heavy handed I need a lighter pencil.

arnoud3272
05-15-2012, 02:45 PM
Netta - Good job :thumbsup:.
A few remarks for improvement:
-- knowing a bit of theory can help tremendously to draw accurately, for instance basic perspective. Not necessarily complicated: it must be obvious to any person that "further away looks smaller". The silo is turned a bit, so that the right wall is visible. It is very slight, so it is acceptable to draw it as if the front wall is seen straight on, with parallel top and bottom edges. But if anything, the left wall is turned away, so the left side of the front wall can never be larger than the right one, the way you drew it :(.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-May-2012/142886-netta-silo-corr.jpg

-- broadly speaking we have 2 styles of drawing - with many intermediate forms. One is linear, outlining. The other is based on masses, shades. The linear style is rather analytic, its pure form is used by engineers. Your drawing of the clock, wall and counter is clearly purely linear; in that case it looks rather sloppy and not convincing that many outlines are missing, not even suggested. Then all of a sudden the glass is drawn as a mass; which makes the whole rather inconsistent.

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

netta13542
05-18-2012, 05:05 AM
Here is a redo of the clock and the silo I hope I got this correct.

arnoud3272
05-18-2012, 01:45 PM
Looks good, Netta :clap:.
But one thing confuses me, why did you draw the silo as a ziggurat (Mesopotamian pyramid) ?
You may move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

Panth
05-20-2012, 11:55 AM
Hi, have been doing the cubes homework. These are my drawings of a tower, I saw it in a newspaper, also of a dresser, and washing machine which are at home. The photos come out very light, although on paper the drawings are darker! Anyway, hope I've got the perspectives right! Thanks a lot, Prabha :wave:

arnoud3272
05-20-2012, 05:39 PM
Prabha - Well done :clap:.
The photos come out very light, although on paper the drawings are darker! Here is a good article on "post-processing (http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=572823)" your photo or scan.
Anyway, hope I've got the perspectives right!
Architectural drawings are very sensitive to even slight perspective errors, it takes a lot of concentration. You did very fine in general, but two lines were overlooked:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-May-2012/142886-prabha-tower.jpg

But no doubt that you understand perspective :thumbsup:.
Please move on to class 4 :music:.

Panth
05-21-2012, 11:11 AM
Thank you Arnoud! I do appreciate your feedback, and how meticulously you guide us. I looked at only two perspectives, but seem to have neglected the third! I will correct it in my book, so that I do not make the same mistake. Thanks once again, and see you in Class 4. Prabha :-)

ElleZ
05-22-2012, 11:58 PM
Hi Arnoud,

I think I am getting the hang of this, but I think I prefer the old method of squint, measure and draw, so some of my lines are still not correct, from doing it this way.
First my cubes for the dice...
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-May-2012/150751-pre-dice_001.jpg please excuse my photography, I am going to see if I can use my daughter's camera in future, it takes a much better photo, even with me snapping the pic. I am going to read the info on fixing in PSP...
Next the Silo....
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-May-2012/150751-pre-silo.jpg
This one is of the Shelf, clock and glass....
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-May-2012/150751-pre-shelfclock.jpg
and my go at the trailer, looking down from one of our balconies..
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-May-2012/150751-pre-trailer.jpg
These are my first sketches of these, just wanting them checked first before continuing...
Cheers,
Elle

arnoud3272
05-23-2012, 08:05 AM
Elle - Very well done in general :clap:.
I prefer the old method of squint, measure and draw Nothing wrong with that, but knowing perspective frees you from boring measuring every single window sill in a street, for instance. It is also very useful for a quick check on your measuring. For instance, the silo sketch by Jay was not checked by him, as you can read in the first post. He was also surprised that many pupils started to copy it. Now here you should not copy that sketch literally - in fact never copy a photo of another artist's sketch without checking perspective, consistent lighting, etc.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-May-2012/142886-elle-silo.jpg

Otherwise, your sketches are ready for further work :thumbsup:.

ElleZ
05-23-2012, 09:25 AM
Hi Arnoud,
Thanks for the thumbs up for the go ahead with the shading.
I understand about the perspective and find that I am learning with each new drawing. Ummm, I did read all of the info at the start of the lesson, along with many of the earlier posts. I will have to remember to re-read before starting. I'll read you again around the w/e, when I've posted my finished pieces.
Cheers,
Elle

arnoud3272
05-23-2012, 10:02 AM
On the silo sketch:
because this is only a sketch I don’t need to strictly enforce the laws of perspective. If I want to develop this picture further I simply take a sheet of tracing paper, lay it over the sketch and trace the sketch lines onto the tracing paper—I can then make my perspective corrections onto the tracing paper prior to transfer

ElleZ
05-29-2012, 01:11 AM
Hi Arnoud,

Better late than never....I am posting my dice, silo and shelf, but not the trailer, as I accidently angled the tow bar in a different location, lol, and need to rework that one....I will try to post by the end of the week.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-May-2012/150751-Dice-cubic-post.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-May-2012/150751-slo-cubic-post.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-May-2012/150751-shelf-cubic-post.jpg whoops! I just noticed that the turned wood on the top left side got curved, I will fix that up too.
Thanks for your C&C

cheers,
Elle

arnoud3272
05-29-2012, 07:49 AM
Good job, Elle :clap:.
I like how you get different textures by changing the "line quality".
:wave:.

ElleZ
05-29-2012, 09:03 AM
Thanks Arnoud, I'll read you again towards the end of the week.

Cheers,
Elle

ElleZ
05-29-2012, 11:41 PM
Hi Arnoud,

I had a little bit of spare time today, kind of,;) , so I decided to finish the trailer off and fix up my clock on shelf, found a couple of other errors on that. Hopefully, I have both drawings correct.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-May-2012/150751-class3-post-trailer.jpg The Trailer has since been moved, & I never did get a photo, but I think its fairly right.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-May-2012/150751-class3-post-brick-clock.jpg
I am starting to enjoy these lessons more and comprehending the techniques in them.
Cheers,
Elle:wave:

arnoud3272
05-30-2012, 02:20 PM
You're steadily improving, Elle :clap:

ElleZ
05-30-2012, 04:56 PM
Thanks Arnoud, do I move on to the next class or do I need to do more here?
I appreciate your C&C and time.
Cheers,
Elle

arnoud3272
05-30-2012, 06:00 PM
Elle - Yes, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.
(Forgot it in the last post, I thought I had already "cleared" you)

ElleZ
05-30-2012, 08:00 PM
lol, goodo, I'll see you in the next class then Arnoud.
Cheers,
Elle

demitas
06-04-2012, 12:08 AM
Here are my cube-ish study objects. The first two had such fluid lines that I sort of just kept going that way with the fridge... in hindsight, the fridge would have greatly benefited from a ruler for its straight edges. :)

arnoud3272
06-04-2012, 07:45 AM
demitas - Well done :clap:. I like the choice of objects. A good technique is to look for the big abstract shapes indeed :thumbsup:.
Please move on to class 4 :music:.

jop1936
06-12-2012, 11:34 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jun-2012/1070172-silo_dice.JPG Hi Arnoud, my silo looked better before I scanned it. not so good here. looks out of perspective. I think I see where I went wrong. I await your helpful critique. Joyce

arnoud3272
06-12-2012, 06:22 PM
Joyce - You're off to a good start.
But please post bigger pictures, it is difficult to judge details on this small size.
On the dice: take care of "foreshortening", the dimension "in the depth" is always much shorter than what you know about the object. Don't draw what you know, but what you see. It is very apparent here, because the back dice looks correct, strengthening the wrong impression of the front one.
As you realized yourself, the perspective on the silo is only correct in the lower part.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jun-2012/142886-joyce-silo.JPG
:wave:

jop1936
06-15-2012, 12:00 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Jun-2012/1070172-silo_dice0001.JPG http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Jun-2012/1070172-silo_dice0002.JPG

jop1936
06-15-2012, 12:02 PM
I used my own dice as a model. It is really difficult for me to use someone else's drawings .

arnoud3272
06-15-2012, 06:10 PM
Joyce - The dice are very well done :clap:.
I used my own dice as a model. It is really difficult for me to use someone else's drawings . That is OK, in fact you learn faster when drawing from life :thumbsup:. There is also a hint in the assignment description that you may use your own examples. And of course that is true for all classes :).

So, I don't ask you to continue on the silo, BUT.. it is important to develop a gut feeling for perspective, so that you avoid the big errors without the need for mathematical constructions.
We can see the right wall, so necessarily we don't see the building head on, but a bit turned away, as I sketched in the plan. Then the left side is farther away from us than the right side. "Further away looks smaller". When it is very slight it is OK to ignore the far VP and to draw the front wall parallel. But drawing the far end bigger than the near end is definitely wrong :(.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Jun-2012/142886-joyce-silo.JPG

:wave:

docxart
06-16-2012, 05:11 PM
"For now, just concentrate on the cubes. If you have a drawing that you are working on and you do not have a lot of time, use that drawing for your exercise this week."

Hello
I've taken the above advice: here is my cube for this assignment. I have been looking at this shed in my yard for weeks and this assignment gave me an opportunity to draw it.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jun-2012/1074922-shed_001.jpg

What do you think?
Qadir

arnoud3272
06-17-2012, 04:07 AM
Very well done, Qadir :clap:.

docxart
06-17-2012, 08:23 AM
May I move to class 4?

arnoud3272
06-17-2012, 11:14 AM
May I move to class 4?
As a rule, a few drawings are expected in the "foundation" classes (1 to 6). (Originally, the scheme was 1 class per week). But OK, I don't doubt that you understand the "cubic" form, you may move on :thumbsup:.

ricksherny
06-20-2012, 08:52 AM
I worked on the barn and Clock and glass.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jun-2012/1072372-Barn.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jun-2012/1072372-clock_and_glass.jpg

arnoud3272
06-20-2012, 05:33 PM
ricksherny - The motto of this classroom is "draw what you see". In the case of the grain silo, you drew it as if seen from above, from an airplane or so. OK, it is based on another sketch, so what.
But the wall and clock is from a photo, and although the camera introduces some distortions, it is more or less as you would see it in real life. What you've drawn is impossible: the eye level of the clock and glass are about right, but the joints in the wall run as if the eye level is on the third floor of the next building. If you look carefully at the photo, you see that the joints run horizontal on the EL, downwards above it and upwards under it. And you did not see what I like to stress: "further away looks smaller".

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jun-2012/142886-rick-clock_and_glass.jpg

Class 3 is the most important class IMO. If you can draw a cube correctly, you have the means to check and correct the other forms.
:wave:

ricksherny
06-21-2012, 12:19 PM
You are correct on the barn, I did try to replicate what the picture looked like rather than taking into account of where I would be standing when looking at it, but hey, maybe I was on top of a big hill or in a airplane :lol: J/K. I will rework the barn.

The clock and glass, I have no idea what I was thinking.

arnoud3272
06-21-2012, 05:51 PM
ricksherny -
I have no idea what I was thinking. The aim of the first classes is to recognize the simple geometric forms in the objects around you AND to recognize the errors in drawing them. There is no problem to see which cube is correct.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Jun-2012/142886-cubes.jpg
But quite another matter to see the errors in real objects. Before you develop a gut feeling for the correct form, you have to check again and again. "Further away looks smaller" "There can be only one eye level"
:crossfingers:

ricksherny
06-21-2012, 07:45 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Jun-2012/1072372-clock_and_glass2a.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Jun-2012/1072372-barn.jpg

arnoud3272
06-22-2012, 06:00 AM
ricksherny - Much better now :thumbsup:. Well done :clap:.
You're ready to move on to class 4. Keep up the good work :music:.

ricksherny
06-22-2012, 09:17 AM
Thank you, even my wife said that my second barn didn't look like I was standing on top of a hill. I am starting to find this much more enjoyable not that my images are starting to look like I want them too.

On to cylinders:wave:....

jop1936
06-23-2012, 08:34 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Jun-2012/1070172-Save.JPG

jop1936
06-23-2012, 08:36 AM
Arnoud, this is a drawing of my grandfather clock. Hope it is done right:crossfingers:

arnoud3272
06-23-2012, 11:28 AM
Joyce - Very nice. Very well done :clap:.
Please move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

Amber Q
07-02-2012, 05:12 PM
Hello arnoud!:wave: I've been a bit busy with the home life, but here's my cubic study-a coffee grinder. It took me awhile but im rather pleased. :)

The photo I took for you to refer too...my camera made it look slightly blurred, sorry.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jul-2012/1085432-Wet_Canvas_1.jpg
The drawing
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jul-2012/1085432-practicework_021.jpg
If I am missing anything just let me know! :)

arnoud3272
07-02-2012, 07:06 PM
Amber - Very well done :clap::clap:.
There is some perspective error, apparent enough to a trained eye without constructing the VL's, but it will make it clear to you:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jul-2012/142886-amber.jpg

Otherwise it is very well done, please move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

Amber Q
07-02-2012, 08:14 PM
Amber - Very well done :clap::clap:.
There is some perspective error, apparent enough to a trained eye without constructing the VL's, but it will make it clear to you:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jul-2012/142886-amber.jpg

Otherwise it is very well done, please move on to class 4 :thumbsup:..

Thanks arnoud. :) It's my first time putting a lot of time and effort into something like this. I knew something was off but I'm happy to know they aren't really bad. :lol:

See you in class 4, thanks for the tips! I will certainally try to practice often so these mishaps are less apparent.

Nephrin
07-09-2012, 02:54 AM
Arnoud, here is my drawing for lesson 3.

755882

I initially ran out of room so the top of the house went off the page. I started drawing this picture with the large darkly-shaded rectangle in the middle and branched off from there. Concerning perspective, there's likely to be problems on the house on the right side of the page. I drew everything first, then tried to correct proportion by using similar angles.

Question: Do you put another sheet of paper next to your sketch paper in order to draw the perspective lines that run off page to vanishing points, or do you just visualize them in your mind?

arnoud3272
07-09-2012, 04:16 PM
Nephrin -
I initially ran out of room so the top of the house went off the page. To avoid that, one starts with marking where the top and bottom will come, and where the middle is - or the one-third/two-third.
Question: Do you put another sheet of paper next to your sketch paper in order to draw the perspective lines that run off page to vanishing points, or do you just visualize them in your mind? Well, yes to both :lol:.
If the VP is not too far, you can tape another sheet next to your drawing. If they are far away, it is not so critical anyway, so just "guestimate". Alternately, because you are scanning anyway, you can use the powers of image manipulation software to check the VL's :).

But more important is to realize what should be checked. I'm rather confident that the emphasized lines of the building run parallel in real life. So they must converge to the same VP, whether far or near. It is obvious, even without lengthening, that they run in different directions:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Jul-2012/142886-nephrin-silo.jpg

:wave: