View Full Version : Basic 101: Class 3 - Drawing Cubic Objects - Old thread

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01-19-2009, 11:31 AM
My attempt at lesson 3: Cubes. I did three of the photo's but put them all on one page. Sorry that two of the drawings are so light. They aren't that way on the page.



Robin Neudorfer
01-26-2009, 04:37 AM
Cica - Most appear to be carefully drawn. Hard to tell if the perspective is correct other than checking by eye. When drawing precise perspective, the HL and VP need to be evident.

On your magic box the converging lines (the ones moving away from us toward the VP) are parallel. That is how it is drawn in an isometric drawing, but not one that is in perspective. Those lines need to be slowly converging to a VP.

Robin Neudorfer
01-26-2009, 04:41 AM
Richmond - I don't see your HL or VP in these drawings.
The dice are just not true. The lines converge toward each other, as they move away from you.

I suggest that you try some items on your counter, so you can actually see what is happening to each of the shapes. Just draw the outside lines without shading. Use the horizon line and show your perspective lines.

01-26-2009, 08:45 AM
:wave: Thanks, Robin! I see where I went wrong. Now that I look at it closer, it is a bit off. Ok, here's the corrected magic box... wish the coins hadn't disappeared in it!;)


Robin Neudorfer
01-26-2009, 07:00 PM
Your three lines from the larger box appear to be parallel. They should have a bit more angle towards one another, as they converge toward the vanishing point.

01-27-2009, 10:23 AM
I only read the first three hundreds or so post to this lesson. Seems that since then this class has turned into a drafting class. In the first three hundred or so post most students submitted drawings, many were shaded. It was the instructor that used perspective lines to show the student where they were off and how they could/should correct the drawing. In fact one student even commented "how happy she was that she was an artist not an architect, drawing was fun and architectural drawing were boring". You are a volunteer and we all appreciate your time and efforts but I feel you have forgotten that this is a drawing class and not a drafting class.

Because of the dice I drew you are asking me to "draft" (my word) my counter top. If you went back to the earlier post it is stated that the ref picture of dice was distorted and a drawing would show that. It was the attempt at drawing that I was attempting to do not present a third of a page with all the dice lined up with hl and vp again that would be boring both physicially and visually. I spent over 8 hours attempting to figure out what you wanted in the revision of lesson 2, I will not do with lesson three. I have had drafting classes and I was in construction for over 25 years so I understand the principles but I chose not use a t-square and angle for my drawings.

I have checked all my perspective points on my barn (see photo) they seem to be fairly close, do you not agree?

Is there something else that you want me to do to complete this class?



Robin Neudorfer
01-27-2009, 10:50 AM
I am sorry that you are upset with my suggestions. I pointed out what I see you are doing incorrectly. My computer died and I am borrowing my daughters so I don't have photoshop to be able to "guide" you to show what I see in your drawings.

We are talking about perspective, and the dice are drawn incorrectly. If that is okay with you, then move on. There are also aspects of the barn that do not fit your "perspective lines".

I also have an extensive background in both design and fine art, and there is a fair amount of "drafting" in a finished piece of art. I don't need to see the work that goes into this if the underdrawing is correct. When the underdrawing is incorrect, that is where I offer the suggestion to go back to the basics to make sure that knowledge is understood.

I am sorry if you were offended. Continue on.

01-27-2009, 02:11 PM
Is this okay? I guess that unless my vp is right in front of me, I just can't see it! I never could get perspective right when doing it like this. Thank you for helping. I will keep practicing until I "get it". (picture below)

Nailslinger, I, for one appreciate what the tutors are telling me. I don't want to be an architect either, but I realize that learning perspective is important if I am going to do any kind of scenery paintings, especially with buildings in them. What they are trying to do is help us to "get the viewpoint" so we can make our work "look right". Please don't get upset with them when they give you extra practice work. It's just that, extra practice. It's only to help.


Robin Neudorfer
01-28-2009, 01:08 PM
Yes that is better. Where those lines come together (if you were to tape another piece of paper on to this one, and continue the lines) that is where your vanishing point is. A line drawn horizontally through that would be where your Horizon line or Eye Level is.

Do not redo it, but I want you to try to "see" this.
You have most likely drawn a cube that is square. Correct?
Can you visually see that the sides are actually longer than the front side? Meaning they "appear" to be longer.
Over time you will be able to judge this sort of thing by eye. At first it is difficult to catch these inaccuracies.

02-02-2009, 06:47 PM
Hi:wave: . Here's my go at the clock and the dice for this class. I drew the clock freehand first then used tracing paper to work out the HL and VP. I then did the brick work and redrew the clock in place with adjusted proportions. Hope it worked out okay. It was difficult. The dice were a piece of cake after that!

Robin Neudorfer
02-05-2009, 05:50 PM
That was a good way to work out the clock and the brick issue. Just be aware that the top edge of the clock will also aim down to your VP.

The dice are easier. Look at them again, and take note though that they do not appear to have square sides. The side closest to us is drawn as a rectangle. this unfortunately throws off the rest of the cube. It is a common mistake in beginning perspective. But visually it has to look square. Easier to fudge in a rectangular shape, but not so in a square shape. Photos also distort shapes, so in this situation you have to draw what you know to be true. Most of my dice are perfectly square. Perhaps not so, in Las Vegas.

02-05-2009, 06:45 PM
thanks for the info Robin I'll try again.

02-06-2009, 02:11 PM
Hi Robin. I drew another die beside the original 2 dice to get the look more square. Good? Yes? I hope.

Robin Neudorfer
02-10-2009, 04:55 PM
Yes much more square on the front side. Does it look square to you on top?
Because the sides are foreshortened, they will be slightly sorter than the front edge. You have them longer which makes the surface look rectangular to me.

Frustrating I know. However, to be able to draw from life you need to be able to spot these differences.

02-10-2009, 08:32 PM
Aha!:d :d

04-24-2009, 04:41 PM
Here is my efforts at lesson 3.

Thanks a lot
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Apr-2009/125661-clock_perspective.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Apr-2009/125661-clock.jpg

04-24-2009, 08:24 PM
Diane -
Nice work :clap:. Correct perspective interpretation, and I like how you rendered the different textures.
Apologies if I misread your mind, but you seems to imply that you finished the assignment for this class :evil:. True, the assignment starts with "Choose one ..." but next page you will read that it further includes to draw/sketch some more cube-ish objects, from real life. Or you could draw another of the challenging photos, as many pupils before you have chosen to do. This is really the pivotal class of the introductory set (1-5), it pays to practice some more.
You clearly understand the principles, and your use of light and dark is outstanding :thumbsup:.

04-27-2009, 07:29 PM
Thanks Arnoud,

I knew it had to be to good to be true, only one drawing for this exercise. :o
Here are a couple more. I think the pencil sharpener is alright, but I wouldn't want to play craps with those dice, particularly not the right one. I did a perspective sketch first, and played with the depth for quite a while. I setteled on the depth below, but once all was said and done I realized that they were squished, even worse once on the monitor.
Hm, is it possible that when we draw, we see partialy what we think we drew, rather than what is actual on the page. It seems very wierd that errors seem so much more glaring on the monitor.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Apr-2009/125661-sharpener_VP_lines.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Apr-2009/125661-sharpener.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Apr-2009/125661-dice.jpg

04-28-2009, 09:59 AM
Diane -
Well done :thumbsup:.
I wouldn't want to play craps with those dice
There are geometrical methods to draw a perfect cube in any exaggerated perspective, but that is very technical. For the artist it is more important to develop "an eye" for seeing when something does not look right. A good method to facilitate that, in particular with symmetrical objects (next class :evil:) is to look at your drawing in the mirror. No worries for now, you will develop it, as one of the mantras in this forum chants practice, practice, practice.
But some basic perspective is off in the left one. Its VL's should converge to points on the same EL as the right one. There can be only one EL in a drawing because traditional art depicts what would be seen by one observer at a given moment. Cubists thought differently, and also other 20th century artists but less extreme, as e.g. this street scene (http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/IMG/LPR/furstnbg.jpg) by David Hockney.
You don't need to repost, but correct this for yourself:


You're doing very well, move on to class 4 :clap:.

04-28-2009, 11:56 AM
Thanks Arnould,
I'll see you over in class 4?
And, I will redo the dice to see if I can get the perspective right.

04-28-2009, 03:25 PM
OK, they're just cubes rather than dice, but this time I think they are much better. They are still a little on the tall side but I think the perspective is better this time.


04-28-2009, 03:46 PM
Diane -
Much better indeed :clap:. Well done :thumbsup:.

04-28-2009, 11:33 PM
beautiful Adobe versions of Lesson 3 and class notes on perspective from Lesson 2 are now available for download . . .

Can you please provide the link to this PDF download. Kathy

04-29-2009, 07:36 AM
I've just started in Class 3 here and am a bit confused about a couple of things. I have studied several posts already and cannot sort out what I need to ascertain.

1. I thought I would work through Jaydn's photos beginning with the barn..I notice that the sloping tops(roofs) of the three layers of 'cubes' are parallel. I thought they had to converge to a VP...obviously I have something wrong here. When I began to draw mine they were at different angles to Jaydn's:confused:

2. Each 'cube' would have to have a horizon line in common wouldn't they...but a different VP for each one. Is that correct?

Sorry Arnaud (?) if you have already answered these questions, but I have browsed through many posts and cannot resolve these issues.


04-29-2009, 08:36 AM
Kathy -
PDF files: they are not on this site but there is a link to the author's site in the "sticky" thread in this subforum which has the word pdf in the title.

The "barn":
1. This is a sketch, before checking the perspective. You are right, the VL's to the left should converge, but very slightly because the far VP is very far away. I am a bit concerned by your mention of sloping roofs, I trust you mean the VL of the ridge, basic perspective can only be applied to cubic forms.

2. All cubes will share the same 2 VP's -- or the 3 if you are bold enough to dray it in 3PP - because their sides are mutually parallel. Except in modern architecture, the stories of a house, the houses in a street, ... they have common VP's.

BTW, I came across a photo of such a building recently, it is not a barn it is an "antique" silo.

You'll see it here (http://www.pbase.com/mad_monte1/image/88728239)
I saw your question mark: my name is Arnoud, the Dutch form of Arnold.

04-29-2009, 08:55 AM
Thank you Arnoud (sorry about the spelling). The ? was because I wasn't sure if you were the subbie guiding this area - but glad to get the spelling right - not to mention meeting you again.:)

I think I will use your photo. I didn't mean the long rooftops...but the sloping edges that converge. I think VL means left viewpoint (?) 3PP must mean three point perspective....learning as much about the language as the drawing (big sigh).


04-29-2009, 02:15 PM
Kathy -
VL is the abbreviation of Vanishing Line.

Now I am even more confused about the roofs. Basic perspective can not be applied to sloping edges. It is only valid for a group of edges that are either parallel or square to each other. So, get the right perspective for the ridge and gutters, then draw the roof slopes "by eye".

04-30-2009, 12:28 AM
Arnoud...I think 'ridge' is the operative word here..and the one I was talking about and about which you have confirmed re perspective. Understood!
I think I also understand what you mean about sloping edges and have that part OK too.:thumbsup:

Thanks again....now ....back to the drawing board and I'll probably finish the one I started of Jaydn's...now that I know better. If I still haven't got it right...then you can go to work on the drawing itself...with my full consent.


04-30-2009, 08:29 AM
Goodness I'm taking up a lot of space here.
Anyway, here are my efforts to date..

Barn : http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Apr-2009/118422-barn.jpg

Clock 1 :http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Apr-2009/118422-clock_1.jpg

Clock 2 : http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Apr-2009/118422-clock.jpg

This last drawing looks very smudgy due to bad photography.


04-30-2009, 11:31 AM
Kathy -
Nice shading :clap:.

The "barn": I am still concerned whether you understood it right
3. the top of a roof where the two sloping sides meet
Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006
Can you show me how you established where the vanishing points are located of the lines that I highlighted, No fancy details, it is more about theoretical understanding.


The "clock":
Well done :clap:
For your own clarity: the joints in the masonry above the EL should also converge to the latter. After all, it is the same wall as below the EL.


You're doing fine, please persevere :thumbsup:

04-30-2009, 07:58 PM
Can you show me how you established where the vanishing points are located of the lines that I highlighted, No fancy details, it is more about theoretical understanding.
Arnoud, they went off the page. Under the drawing page I had a large sheet of paper and they met outside.

For your own clarity: the joints in the masonry above the EL should also converge to the latter. After all, it is the same wall as below the EL
Of course...I see that now. Thank you.

Also I appreciate the 'ridge' definition.

I will start the tower one unless you think I should do more on these.


04-30-2009, 09:55 PM
Just a little aside.....take a look at this for perspective (a May project on this website). Third photo down:eek:



05-01-2009, 05:49 AM
Kathy -

Forget about the tower for now, it is a very challenging image. Let us get the perspective right on the silo. I was not interested in seeing the VP's, but rather in how you concluded where they should be. The perspective is off, and it looked as if you had used those lines to construct it. Don't loose courage, what artists must know about perspective is simple, once understood. Look at that cityscape photo in the Landscape Forum, those lines on the tall buildings, that you know are horizontal IRL. And look at these lines on a tall building, for which we may safely assume that they are horizontal IRL


Think again about my remarks on sloping edges.
If you are still stuck, l humbly suggest to look at my own contribution (post 703, p. 47)

05-01-2009, 06:40 AM
Wow! I was REALLY off! I won't give up Arnoud....and thanks for giving me your reference. Explains more than words can ever do. I will redo the diagram of the barn.

Yes, I think I see what you mean in the Landscape forum.

What does IRL mean?

Thanks again. Kathy

05-01-2009, 10:25 PM
It's me again. Seeing perspective EVERYWHERE. Opened the paper this morning look what is staring me in the face:eek: Talk about vanishing point...Roof, sides, floor, rows of lockers....ALL pointing to the door at the end.



05-03-2009, 03:08 AM
I knew I would understand better if I could see the eye level and vanishing points on the sheet itself...so here is my effort. I realise the angles are sharper but I think I understand better for having done it this way....that is if I've got it right???



05-03-2009, 04:01 PM
Kathy -

Yes, that is the correct perspective :music: :clap::clap:.

IRL means in real life, I thought you had already seen that abbreviation.

05-03-2009, 07:10 PM
:music: :music: :music: :music:


05-04-2009, 12:45 AM

Here is my attempt at lesson 3.

Had some trouble getting the dice to look rounded, I think I made them at least not look so square.

I also adjusted the barn to a 1vp perspective.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-May-2009/137751-Lesson3_2.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-May-2009/137751-lesson3_1.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-May-2009/137751-Lesson3_3.jpg

05-04-2009, 07:30 AM
This is my perspective (only) on the tower Arnoud.


Sorry about the poor quality of the photo.


05-04-2009, 12:18 PM
Derek -

You did very well.:clap:
I think you understand cubic forms good enough to move to the next class :music:.
But pay attention to a very important rule in perspective: edges that run parallel to each other - left top and bottom of the clock - must converge to the same VP.


You did correctly on the right side :confused:.

Move on to class 4 :thumbsup:

05-04-2009, 02:14 PM
Kathy -

You manage well :clap: this is a very challenging photo. It has an extreme distortion and some critical lines are obscured by the trees. So I won't be picky. But try to remember that all VP's of the horizontal edges/lines must lie on the same EL. Well, the same :confused:?, there is only one:lol:!


The blue lines converge nicely to the horizon. So the red should converge to the same level. As another hint, the horizon is called "eye level" by artists, it is the position where we assume that the observer's eyes are located. A position below the pavement is not very likely, is it?

You have worked hard, and I think you understood the essentials.
Unless you have still questions about what was explained in this class, you may move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

05-04-2009, 07:18 PM
Thank you Arnoud....I think I understand what you mean. The lower line is unnecessary and has been mistaken for the horizon line (eye level) which is above it. I should have placed my VP on the horizon line.


Will proceed to Class 4.

05-05-2009, 07:52 AM
Thanks Arnoud

I made some corrections to the base of the clock but forgot to use the VP as a reference :( . Poor attention to detail I will try harder :o .


05-05-2009, 07:39 PM
Hi! For a sketch that was only supposed to take a few minutes- well, all I can say is that it took me much longer than that. :p I know...practice, practice, practice. Since I'm truly a drawing 101 student, I feel that I sometimes get lost and need a guide. For instance, on the cube on the roof peak and the slanting roof. I felt like I was guessing at all of it - beginning with the Eye Level - is it too low? Then, in general, the perspective on the largest building, just puzzles me. I did the sketch 1pp (but I'm not sure if I did it right - it should be shorter at the rear right corner? ) and then the more I look at the original, I'm thinking I should have drawn it completely differently - in 2pp. So, I'm spinning my wheels and making myself more confused. I'm taking a break and sending it in. :eek:

Here it is and any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.

Peace, Bridget

05-06-2009, 08:22 AM
Bridget -

You're right, 2pp is more appropriate here. The choice of the EL is free, but your choice is natural for this object; silos are normally located in the plains, so one looks from the ground up, the EL is about the height of a person, otherwise a door.
You seem to be confused by the roofs. But remember previous class, you did very well on the boxes. Basic 1PP and 2PP perspective is only applicable to horizontal edges. How do you construct a house?


05-09-2009, 01:06 PM
Hi Arnoud, Thanks for the info about the silo. I will continue to work on that. Per your suggestion, I began the perspective correction of my pre-class drawing. Here is what I have so far. I hope you can see my lines clearly. I did not work on anything other than trying to figure out how the poles should sit. I returned to the site a few days ago and took a photograph (attached also) from approximately the same spot in the parking lot of the Marriott. Another small tiki hut slightly in front and to the left of the orginal, a trash can and lawn chairs had been put in place since my last visit...(paradise continues to be paved!).

Note: I worked on the far right lower cube first (where I was centered), then the entire lower cube and lastly, the upper cube (thatched roof). I'm not sure if I approached this correctly, but it's looking ok to me now. I might want to thicken the far right poles in order to pull them closer to each other.

There is actually another small cube (thatched venilation port)atop the tiki hut but I'll work on that after I get the main structure lined up correctly. So....take a look. I await your comments. Thank you so much.

05-09-2009, 04:59 PM
Today I drew the pair of dice. I post them for critique. As before, speedy is not a word that describes my drawing skills. :wink2: I drew them freehand and then adjusted with the perspective lines. Actually, the adjustments were minor. However; now I see that the left one might be a little too deep. You may also see something I have missed. I hope you are having a great weekend.

05-10-2009, 08:27 AM
Bridget -

Well done :thumbsup:.
Correct perspective on the dice. True, the left one does not look exactly a cube, but you will learn from practicing. Besides, this is a very exaggerated view.
The analysis of your pre-class drawing is also correct. As you hinted yourself, you could give an additional 3D cue to the viewer by thickening the front poles. The intuitive basis of perspective is: what is farther away seems to be smaller.
Keep up the good work :clap:.

05-12-2009, 09:22 AM
Good morning (well, afternoon to you). I hope you are having a good week. I worked on the clock/brick/glass drawing yesterday. It went fairly well, thanks to the use of a ruler. The bottom of the clock is not quite right to me. Of course, I did not notice this until after photo, upload, crop, etc. But I think the perspective on most is ok. What do you think? Thanks again.

05-12-2009, 11:12 AM
Bridget -

Well done :clap:. There is an obvious "slip of the pencil", but you recognized it already, so that is OK :thumbsup:.
Have a second look at the silo, I am sure you will understand now. What helps in "accepting" the perspective distortion is to put the VP's far enough from each other.
Then you will be ready for the next class.

05-12-2009, 12:42 PM
Hi Arnoud! Thanks again for your input and suggestions. Yes, I have "re-looked" at the silo many times and have decided to redraw it again in 2pp (maybe... :wink2: ) I definitely will be sketching many more cubic objects to practice. I plan to move to Class 4 in a few days - no hurry for me - I'd rather continue practicing what I've learned.

But for now....the wind is out of the S at only 5 knots, the water has 100 ft of visibility, there is plenty of room on the boat, my gear is in the dive bag ....so....Gone Diving!
Thanks again for all your support. :) See you in Class 4.

05-17-2009, 11:31 AM
Ok, so here I was last night after finishing class 2, thinking "YAY no more perspective stuff", and then I see the silo/barn thing. Tried to draw it the way it was..was very unsuccessful and it looked horrible. So, I tried again using perspective..and it came out better than I expected. Odd. Either I'm getting better, or rulers are my new best friends. lol


05-17-2009, 12:13 PM
Synserina -
You see -- perspective is your friend :lol:. But take care ! don't become its slave, it can be addictive.
Very well done :thumbsup:

05-17-2009, 01:36 PM
Ok. Tried the dice. Had tons of problems getting the perspective right on those, but did the cubes just fine. lol So, I figured i'd post the perspective one I did and also the freehand one I did. Enjoyed the freehand much more even though it's probably not perspectivally correct (no I didn't check. Had to much fun with it to mess with it). :P



05-17-2009, 04:15 PM
Synserina -
Remember that in 1PP the edges of the front plane do not converge? In 2pp the vertical edges do not converge. The perspective in this photo is 3PP, due to the extreme position of the camera. It is like looking down from a tower to "normal" buildings below. "What is farther away looks smaller"


If you are very good at "drawing what you see", you only need perspective when drawing from imagination, or wanting to change the viewpoint. But it is a good tool to warn you that you went off. The left die is quite good, but you see how the right one is not right :lol:.


The right die is drawn as if propped up, tilted. But remember: basic perspective can only be applied to sets of horizontal or vertical lines/edges.

05-17-2009, 04:38 PM
Arnoud-I was wondering where I went wrong with the perspective dice. Now I see. Thanks. Wasn't really expecting the third perspective. And as for the freehand dice....YAY! I got one right. lol And now that you add the lines, the right one looks really off. I guess in the drawing it didn't look that far off.

05-17-2009, 05:57 PM
And now that you add the lines, the right one looks really off. I guess in the drawing it didn't look that far off. I saw it before drawing the lines because the sides (red lines) were parallel but not vertical. That is an impossible combination for edges that you know are vertical IRL

05-18-2009, 10:16 AM
I sketched a hopechest sitting in my bedroom (Still working on cubes right? lol) and this is how it came out. I'm trying to not rely on my ruler and just kind of "eyeball" it instead. :)


05-18-2009, 06:07 PM
Synserina -
The perspective on this hope chest is almost correct, which suffices for an artistic drawing. :).
It is not formally a subject of this class, but I think you could progress faster in your drawing skills if you added some more details, shading, a suggestion of texture, something along that path. Even in "just a sketch". That is, I assume your hope chest IRL is not that plain :lol:.
But it is clear you understand cubic forms :thumbsup:.

05-18-2009, 06:53 PM
Arnoud-No, my chest at home is NOT that plain, but it's got a lot of dips that even after trying to draw for over an hour, I couldn't get right. So, I tried without the dips and that's how it turned out. :lol: I will definately work on more details when drawing from now on, if nothing more but to help me in my drawing. :)

05-19-2009, 08:53 AM
Synserina -
A chest with dips :confused::confused::lol:.
To be clear, drawing is very often about leaving out details, about simplification, unification, not about faithfully copying every small detail.
I see your main interest is portraiture, which is in realistic style as a rule. In realistic drawing there are no lines, but shapes of light and dark. Light and dark can be suggested by lines, -- remember class 1: spheres and redrawing the pre-class assignment --, but conceptually there are no lines, but changes in tone (value).

05-19-2009, 11:14 AM
Arnoud- Yes, a chest with dips..a bit like my brain. :D Anyhow, just wondering...do I need to go back and try the shading on that chest, or am I good for class 4? :angel:

05-19-2009, 11:32 AM
just wondering...do I need to go back and try the shading on that chest, or am I good for class 4? :angel: No, don't redo it. But I'd strongly advice to tackle the "wall-clock-glass" image. It is a nice perspective practice and an opportunity to experiment with textures. This class is really the pivot of the introductory classes, after mastering the cube, other basic forms are a piece of cake. You have already a good understanding of the cube, but it definitely pays to practice a bit more :).

05-19-2009, 11:51 AM
Alright. I'll start working on that right now. Thanks. :)

05-19-2009, 09:22 PM

05-20-2009, 09:07 AM
Vic -

The drawing based on the photo you took yourself is very good :clap:. There is one remark though, the small size does not do it justice :(. I like your knowledge of DTP, but with the size restrictions of WC! the most important parts are a bit hidden away.
Did you realize how natural the choice of EL and VP's is when drawing from live, or next best thing, from a photo you took yourself? When drawing from imagination, as e.g. that silo, one has to be much more vigilant. "What is farther away looks smaller". But you have drawn the small building and the connecting building larger at the back.


With the choice of the EL, the artist decides where the viewer will have the feeling that he stands, of flies in this example :lol:. As you see in your cityscape, the natural EL is at a person's height, a bit above the roof of the car. In your drawing it is a bit higher than in the photo, but that is artistic license, and the effect is very nice :thumbsup:.

05-20-2009, 10:42 AM
I think I will try another rather than correcting the barn building - I do see that the small building is in error. OK?

05-20-2009, 12:19 PM
I think I will try another rather than correcting the barn building. OK? Hi Vic,
Yes, by all means :thumbsup:.

05-21-2009, 02:10 PM
I have been agonizing over the wall/clock/glass image for days now. The cubes don't seem to be the problem, but the perspective does. The glass seems to fit in right, but the clock doesn't..well, PARTS of the clock, anyhow. Am I doing something wrong? Both the top and bottom of the clock in the original picture seem to have different perspective lines. I've drawn this picture 5 different times in the past 3 days and it always comes out wrong. I'm about to buy stock in the paper company so that I can make some of the money I'm spending back.

05-21-2009, 02:28 PM
Am I doing something wrong? Hi,
Well, either that, or you don't trust your own skill :evil:.
Unfortunately, I am not clairvoyant - not enough anyway :lol:- so why don't you post what you have, with the offending lines highlighted in some way?

Don't despair :thumbsup:

05-21-2009, 02:57 PM
I knew I should have saved them. I've been using them for stress balls. lol Sooo, they're all in the trash bin now. I've almost given up on this one, but I'll try one more time. Hopefully, it'll come out correctly this time.

05-21-2009, 03:35 PM
Here's what I have without the clock. The silly clock seems to hate me, so I may avoid it for now. But there IS a space left on the bricks for the clock to go....:crying:


05-21-2009, 03:58 PM
Synserina -

The perspective of the wall is correct :clap:.
I have a feeling that I know where the cause of your problem is, but I need a clear view of the VL's to be certain. But the glass is too small for me to judge reliably how you drew it. Could you show me the VL's of the glass -- not separately, on the drawing above?

We will sort it out :thumbsup:.

05-21-2009, 04:12 PM
I darkened the lines around the glass so you could see them better.


05-21-2009, 05:40 PM
:lol: I figured it out by looking at the reference pic. It didn't occur to me that the clock had different VPs than the wall. So, basically I spent 3 days drawing a very odd clock. But, I can now draw a very odd clock. :) So, here's the new one with the clock. Sorry it's so small, but I wanted to be able to see my VP's without using an entire ream of paper. :eek:


05-21-2009, 06:09 PM
:lol: I figured it out by looking at the reference pic.
YES :clap::clap:
Very good indeed.
You learned the most important principle in visual arts, it is the motto of this classroom, "draw what you see" :thumbsup:

Now you are ready for the next class, move on.
You've made a big step forward:clap::clap:.

05-21-2009, 06:19 PM
:D Thank you sooo much for being patient with me Arnoud. And I'll see you in class 4. :wave:

05-22-2009, 04:59 PM
here is a church, one that I grew up at - and I thought I knew it inside and out! I plan to adjust my initial sketch and render light and shade this weekend.
(how many cubes does it take to make a church?):rolleyes:

05-22-2009, 06:06 PM
Looks very promising Vic :thumbsup:

05-23-2009, 03:29 PM
Looks very promising Vic :thumbsup:

I am happy with this, in spite of imperfections - maybe I should roll the dice next!

05-23-2009, 05:25 PM
I am happy with this Yes, definitely, you may be proud of it :clap::clap:.

05-26-2009, 05:45 AM
Hi again, Arnaud.

Have realized that I'm supposed to draw many cubic objects in this class and have begun doing so in my sketchbook. :)

But I'm only supposed to post one finished drawing - one that I have improved using "redrawing" (tracing paper), am I? Can that be a master study from a painting (fond of those as you know, thinking about a landscape painting by Van Gogh containing many cubeshaped buildings) or does it have to be a from a photo reference?

(have such a bad printer, that it would be hard to get a good print of the suggested references. But if necessary I can always draw from the screen - suppose I should go for the clock one in that case?)

Looking forward to improving my "cubic knowledge" further. Such an important building block, this shape. :thumbsup:

05-26-2009, 08:42 AM
But I'm only supposed to post one finished drawing - one that I have improved using "redrawing" (tracing paper), am I?
Well, you could interpret the text in the first post/ the PDF file as such. But if you look at other posts, everywhere in the thread, you will see that you are supposed to also post your other practices. It is important to show how you progress :).
Subjects are free, and it is up to you to post also the sketches or only the finished drawings.

05-26-2009, 11:23 AM
Sounds great! :)
Will start working on my Van Gogh master study then and post something from the sketchbook soon as well.

EDIT - Here are the last two pages from my sketchbook:

(some of these are really quick and rough - no real corrections or "redrawing" has been made)

05-26-2009, 02:12 PM
mindbender -
Very useful to post these sketches :thumbsup:. You see, one of the purposes to practice sketching followed by checking the perspective is to develop a gut feeling for perspective, so that already when sketching the perspective is "right enough". This is an opportunity for me to give you some pointers, simple rules of thumb.

A. What is farther away looks smaller


B. The farther away (up or down) from the EL, the sharper the angle. Look at your class 2 practice on the cubes and boxes.


Remember this rule, it will come back in disguise in next class :evil:.

C. ("Drawing" some VL's in your imagination would be accurate enough for this check) There is only one EL


You're very dedicated, I 'm looking forward to your "copy of the master" :)


05-26-2009, 03:19 PM
Thanks for pointing these things out, Arnaud. Will try to pay more attention to these. I guess my "intuitive" sense of perspective isn't that developed yet. :o

The strange thing is that the more I draw "what I see", the less correct the perspective seems to become. If I do it the other way around - start with making the perspective "work" - I usually end up with a much more "correct" drawing, but then it doesn't look like what I thought I saw anymore. :confused:

But I guess that's where the "redrawing" comes in. First sketching "what I see", then checking perspective, correcting and redrawing. Then check, correct, redraw if necessary...that's the recommended work process, isn't it?

One more question, concerning redrawing. One good way is to rub graphite on the back of the drawing and then filling in the lines over a clean paper? Must admit I have never really done any "redrawing" like this before (mostly worked digitally - with different layers and an "undo" button ;)). Don't have any "art tracing paper" around at the moment - apart from the one you use for baking, but I'm not supposed to use that kind, am I?

Any suggestions when it comes to the "redrawing" part would be great. A notorious "rough sketch in the sketchbook" or "digital painting" guy at the moment (Used to working mostly in A5 format or smaller when sketching). :o

05-26-2009, 04:18 PM
The strange thing is that the more I draw "what I see", the less correct the perspective seems to become.

Now if you succeed in really drawing what you see, the perspective will be correct, but not always "artistic". People are accustomed to 2PP, although in reality, (a slight) 3PP is the rule. But that is so easy to correct, just make all edges of which you know that they are vertical drawn vertical.

If I do it the other way around - start with making the perspective "work" - I usually end up with a much more "correct" drawing, but then it doesn't look like what I thought I saw anymore. :confused:

That is because (in 2PP) you "choose" the VP's too close together. In fact, the "correct" distance between the VP's is such that from a normal viewing distance there is a 90° angle between the lines from the viewer towards the VP's. If one VP is on the paper, the second VP will be at 2 or 3 metres :evil:

But I guess that's where the "redrawing" comes in. First sketching "what I see", then checking perspective, correcting and redrawing. Then check, correct, redraw if necessary...that's the recommended work process, isn't it?

That is correct :thumbsup:. That is the way suggested here, later you will definitely find other ways, and probably make up your own, an amalgam of many tricks.

One more question, concerning redrawing. One good way is to rub graphite on the back of the drawing and then filling in the lines over a clean paper?

That is a possibillity. If your "good" paper is not too thick, you can use a lightbox. Nothing fanciful needed: see post #703 (http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228822&page=47)
If the paper is too thick, you can put your sketch on the lightbox, to rub graphite only where needed. On the back of it :evil::lol:.


05-27-2009, 10:35 AM
Hi again and thanks for those thorough and instructive replies to my questions. :thumbsup:

Here is the first really rough sketch for the master study, just trying to get the main (cubic) shapes. Included the original in the picture as well.

Have begun working on the 2nd, redrawn version. We'll see if two versions will be enough or if I'll need a 3rd one... :)

05-27-2009, 11:00 AM
mindbender -
This is a very good start :clap:, you're very dedicated :thumbsup:.
One point to remember, for the lifting arms -- or whatever the engineering term is -- basic perspective is only valid for horizontal lines/edges. So don't try to force some perspective correction on it, instead look at the relative angles:



05-27-2009, 12:15 PM
I learned from reading your comments to mindbender.

05-27-2009, 02:36 PM
Vic -
I cannot agree on your "adjusted" dice :(.
First, IMO you applied not enough convergence, but I will not argue on that, let's see whether your drawing is consistent.


Sets 1 and 2 could converge to VP's that lie on the same EL. But the lines in set 3 definitely must converge faster in order to come together on the same EL And set 4 is plainly not consistent.
All lines that are parallel converge to one VP.
The cubes you drew after the handbook on perspective are correct :thumbsup:, but indeed the depth of that study is more than expected in this class :lol:. Do you see how the perspective in a sense is too much in those studies? In your dice imo it is not enough, try to find the middle road :).


05-27-2009, 03:23 PM
The adjusted image does not look right, I agree. I will try again. Thanks

05-27-2009, 04:35 PM
Thanks for reminding me about not "overapplying" perspective. Guess I should also look for that middle road :o

Amazing how many new things you find when doing a study like this - so much more than what you find at a first glance. Will definitely not be a 3rd version of this one - have my hands full with the redrawing, starting to add all those details. Hard, but fun and instructive trying to "follow the master's steps" :cool:

05-27-2009, 05:06 PM
I moved the EL and made the convergence points on the EL.
This was a good excercize on finding EL and adjusting VP to correct the initial sketch.

05-27-2009, 05:15 PM
Vic -
A hundred percent correct :clap::clap:.
Well, you did very well in this class. Move on to the next class :thumbsup:

05-29-2009, 02:42 PM
here is another page from my sketchbook:

05-29-2009, 04:18 PM
mindbender -
Nice sketches :clap:.

05-30-2009, 03:34 AM
Hi, took se some time to get here!

I'm posting a few images, the first sketch of the wall/clock/glass + cubes, the second is my nth work in progress. By now I've realised I should have been using a portrait format. I am tempted to use the landscape as it gives a better indication of the distant VPs and there are clearly three here!
The clock is quite intricate and doing it in a small frame becomes impossible to render (specially for me, who is not very comfortable drawing small objects in detail!) Tha's why my perspective lines may not remain all that accurate. Inany case this is important for me to visualise as I like doing paintings of what Yorky calls 'rural architecture"!
I've also included a sketch of a hut that I've painted a few times and now realize how useful the lessons!
I'll post the (hopefully final!) set once I know which direction I'm going!
Also the sketches are in pen and the drawings are in pencil. Please excuse the quality of pictures I am not very good with my camera!
Thanks in advance


05-30-2009, 08:43 AM
sharat -

Nice sketches :thumbsup:.
Besides recognizing "hidden" cubes, this class should give you a feeling for perspective, an instinctive application of a few rules of thumb, not so much a mathematically correct construct. A short illustrated checklist:
A. What is farther away looks smaller.
B. The EL is horizontal, "horizon" is another name for it.


C. All lines that are parallel to each other converge to the same VP


That drawing of the hut is very nice :clap:

05-30-2009, 12:07 PM
I forgot another very important remark: those basic perspective rules you learned in class 2 can only be applied to horizontal lines. So forget about checking the dice propped up against each other.

05-30-2009, 03:45 PM
Hi again Arnaud,
here is the study of the Van Gogh painting:

05-30-2009, 04:14 PM
mindbender -
Very nice study. You may be proud of it :clap::clap:.
But now it is time to move on :evil:.
Up to class 4 :thumbsup:.

05-30-2009, 04:23 PM
Yay! :) Thanks for another great class - feels like I'm grasping these perspective principles better and better. See you in the next classroom :clap::wave:

05-31-2009, 01:07 PM
Hi Arnoud,

Points taken! (Not sure if applied!)

Submitting 3 drawings
a. Dice - There is surely a VP on the vertical plane apart from the different VPs on the horizon for each dice. The numbers (circles/ellipses) were tougher to put! I realize, the smaller the actual object the tougher it becomes to figure out the VPs. I've tried to keep a 3rd VP on the vertical plane, not sure how the theory works here!
b. The standard wall/clock/glass- didnt even attempt the vertical VP! Feel its a fairly decent representation of what you see!
c. My favoritehttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-May-2009/66609-l3Dice.jpg hut again! am planning to paint it again! Making sure the perspectives respect the hut!



This picture is poor, my drawing is better without the paper colours showing up!


05-31-2009, 03:29 PM
Sharat -
You worked hard :thumbsup:.
The dice:
- all parallel horizontal lines converge to the same VP, the lines in 2 are not consistent
- so do the vertical lines, which unavoidably are all parallel :evil:, so there is only one vertical VP, see 1.


Compare that with the reference picture:


The clock: there is a "slip of the pencil", otherwise it is correct :


The hut is very well drawn, the perspective is completely correct :clap::clap:.

As you are interested in buildings, and you mentioned 3PP several times, I'd like to advice you against using 3PP. It is what you see, but it is only used for its grotesque effect, e.g. in comics. In traditional painting/drawing people don't expect nor like it. In antique professional cameras - the polished mahogany kind - the back plate could be tilted to counteract the 3PP effect when photographing architecture :lol:.

Look again at the dice.
If you are sure you understand it, you don't need to post again, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

06-01-2009, 04:15 AM
Thanks for your patience and kind words! The dice was tough, I think I've understood the idea behind it. I am kind of tired of doing them now so will skip if you dont mind.
Thanks a lot once again and see you in class 4!

07-21-2009, 11:31 AM
Hi Arnoud

Here is my attempt at the dice. Should I try the clock and the silo next?


07-22-2009, 04:34 AM
John -
Well done :clap:.

Should I try the clock and the silo next?
The assignment for this class asks for a couple of drawings where one clearly recognizes the underlying cubic 3D form. You may choose from the given photos, or choose something from your own.

07-23-2009, 04:03 AM
Hi Arnoud

Here is my version of the wall with clock and glass.
I felt that the perspective part of it went ok and hopefully my drawing skills are starting to improve.


07-23-2009, 06:49 AM
John -
This is very good. You clearly understand perspective and cubic forms. No need to stay longer in this class, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.
hopefully my drawing skills are starting to improve. There are two styles in drawing, one with the accent on the outlines - that is, not just the silhouette, but including the outline of important features - mostly called "illustrative", and the other, "realistic", with the principle "no lines, but shapes of light and dark". Up to now, you drew in an illustrative style. It is a free choice, but to be able to choose, you must know the choices. The following classes are very much geared towards the realistic style.

07-24-2009, 01:21 AM

Thank you for all your help and encouragement.

I'm looking forward to further improving my drawing skills in the future classes.
Particularly in the realistic style.

See you in class 4.


07-26-2009, 03:02 PM
Hi Arnoud

Glad you enjoyed my cardboard chair from Class 2 :lol:

Here is my attempt at the dice.


Looking forward to your comments.

I will have a go at the barn building or the clock tower next as I want to try my hand at buildings.



07-27-2009, 04:18 AM
Pam (snowfall) -
Nice job. Keep it up :thumbsup:.

07-27-2009, 03:24 PM
Hi Arnoud

Here is my attempt at the clock tower building. I really enjoyed doing this one - not sure whether it's right though.


Looking forward to your comments.


07-27-2009, 06:22 PM
Pam (snowfall) -
You tackled a very difficult picture :thumbsup:.
There is something funny on these "vanishing" lines (red), they go through the corner of the slightly protruding center part (the "risalit" in architectural terms):


What is farther away is smaller: the windows on the risalit are seen slightly higher than on the rest of the wall:


What you should have done is to construct the perspective starting at the corner of the risalit, not at the corner of the window:


Same for the other windows.
This is a very challenging picture, you did very well on its general, more common perspective :clap:.

07-28-2009, 05:26 AM

Thank you for your advice. I will practise this one again at a later stage. I probably should have made a larger copy of the photo so I could see it more clearly (I was just working from the small photo on the PDF file), even so I still would have got it wrong on the risalit section of the building.

Would you suggest studying architect type drawing books for learning to draw buildings or would they be too complicated? Is it just something I would eventually pick up the more I draw them using just standard artist books?

I'll have a try at the barn building next.



07-29-2009, 02:27 PM
Hi Arnoud

I got in a bit of a pickle with this one so I tried to do it following a demo from a little book I have on perspective, the demo I followed was to find the peak and pitch of a roof.

The barn has also ended up at a different angle to the photo.

Here it is


Looking forward to your comments.


PS Sorry I've just noticed I haven't put any of the small windows in.

07-29-2009, 04:25 PM
Pam (snowfall) -
As a first general remark: your photo is almost illegible, here is an article (http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=493891) on how to take better photos from graphite drawings.
Your roof construction is completely correct :clap:, but you forgot the little roof.


I think you are a bit too obsessed by drawing VL's all over the place. You should sketch your object, then you construct the perspective to make sure that you put the near and far corners in the correct proportion. On several places you lost the picture by focusing too much on the VL's.
E.g. how would a carpenter build this corner?


You understand perspective, no doubt, but from this class on the emphasis should be more on drawing/sketching.

07-29-2009, 06:38 PM
Hi Arnoud

Sorry about the bad photo and thank you for the link - I will print this off for future reference.

I did actually start off with a freehand skeleton drawing of the barn but I think because I got stuck and started to follow the demo from my book the end result turned out too " VL obsessed". Plus, of course, I didn't develop it into a more visually pleasing drawing.

I'm unsure what you need me to do next. Would you like me to repeat the exercise and do the barn as a drawing? Try one of the other photo references/or do something of my own?



07-29-2009, 06:59 PM
Would you like me to repeat the exercise and do the barn as a drawing? Try one of the other photo references/or do something of my own?
Pam -
That is entirely up to you. And yes, that are the 3 possibilities from which to choose :lol:.

07-29-2009, 11:30 PM
Hi, Arnoud --

Thank you so much for your patience with me in Class 2 (I shall always think of it as the "Easy-For-Leonardo" class :lol: :lol: , but I sure did learn a lot of things I really need.

Now, regarding Class 3, the PDF of the lesson asked us to "draw, draw, draw" and to sketch things in our everyday surroundings where we find cubic shapes and try to share them with the class, so while I try to select what I'm going to draw as my main project, here's a sketch I made while hiking yesterday:


I was hiking in an area that had a bad wildfire a few years ago, and this sketch is of a large rock outcropping beside the trail that got so deeply burned that it turned the rock black (very striking-looking), and all around it the new young vegetation is growing in, in all different colors of green: the little things that look like skinny trees are miner's candles, there are thistles, wild roses, and behind almost everything is very young sagebrush just coming in.

Anyway, on my hike I'd been searching for cubic forms, but rabbitbrush is a series of spheres clumped together, and tree stumps are cylinders, so are horses, etc. But the rocks were definitely cubic forms, quite rounded off at the corners but cubes nevertheless.

Pam :)

07-30-2009, 02:50 AM
Pam (Pasqueflower) -
Very nice sketch :clap:

07-31-2009, 11:59 AM
Hi Arnoud

Here are a couple of drawings I have done today.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jul-2009/142898-drawings_004.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jul-2009/142898-drawings_002.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jul-2009/142898-drawingsb_002.jpg



07-31-2009, 04:17 PM
Pam (snowfall) -
Nice job :clap:.
A little remark: The drawing of the radio set looks OK, the error is within reasonable margins, but if you show me your perspective construct, you'd better make sure it is correct :evil::


You very correctly used a box around the hole punch to find its perspective :clap:.
You did fine, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

08-08-2009, 04:46 AM
Hi, Arnoud!

Sorry to have taken so long in getting this completed -- the elements were against me!


As ever, I'll eagerly await your c&c.


Pam :)

08-08-2009, 12:17 PM
Pam (Pasqueflower) -
This is a very good outline. All objects have the correct perspective :clap:
So I have no technical remarks. Let's talk a bit on more general issues.
Colored paper is normally used with 2 mediums, one black-ish, the other white. With only black you will never get a nice sparkling reflection in a glass, or the catchlight in an eye. I strongly advice you to use white paper.
Only an outline is fine if it is meant as an "underdrawing" for another medium, e.g. pen and ink, watercolor, colored pencil... As a drawing on its own it is rather, well ... boring. Some marks to suggest the rough surface of the wall, some shading to show which side of the clock is in the shadow, some suggestion of the reflections in the glass, would result in a much more interesting picture :). Something along the lines you did with that nice sketch of the rock outcropping.
You have a good eye on the form, keep it up :thumbsup:.

08-08-2009, 02:36 PM

I understand, and will do as you suggest from now on! (I have a small supply of very old El Cheapo manila drawing paper and have been using it for exercises because it's super easy to erase :lol: and handles an electric eraser very well, but your comments have made me stop and reflect about quality regarding artwork. I'd lost sight of it.)

Thanks so much! Further work will be forthcoming,


08-10-2009, 04:16 PM
Hi, Arnoud :wave:

How about this?


Pam :)

08-10-2009, 06:33 PM
Pam (Pasquelower) -
This is very good. Outstanding :clap:.
Keep at it :thumbsup:

08-10-2009, 08:06 PM
Arnoud -- thanks for your encouragement! What's next? I've read over the printout of the Class 3 PDF, and am not sure if there's something more I need to do --


08-11-2009, 04:05 AM
I've read over the printout of the Class 3 PDF, and am not sure if there's something more I need to do --
Pam -
The PDF is not explicit on this, but the assignment is to draw "a few" cubic objects, either from the example photos or from your own environment. If you look a bit on what students before you did, it will be clear. This class is really the pivotal point, it pays to practice the cubic form and its perspective thoroughly :).

08-17-2009, 03:46 AM
This class is really the pivotal point, it pays to practice the cubic form and its perspective thoroughly .

Hi, Arnoud :)

Here's my first project in the cubic form: To start off with, a plein air sketch I did earlier this summer before I had grasped very much about eye level and perspective. I would just draw what I saw before me, without any thought of such things.


Last week I went back to that same spot and re-sketched the old shed. The correct sketchbook was inadvertently left behind...but I decided to go ahead anyway and just use the much smaller Moleskine book which was all I had. I tried to use the eye level/perspective principles in a careful line drawing:


(Eye level was below the bottom of the crossbars on the porch posts) Then I copied this sketch using tracing paper, and tried to correct its perspective:


Rather than use a new piece of paper for the final work, I wanted to complete the drawing I'd made in the little sketchbook, and this is the final result:


Doing this project has given me a better sense of how valuable these principles and techniques are, plus a sense of getting somewhat of a grip on them for my own work. I've started on a second project, which feels like it's going really well. Hope what I've done so far is correct!

08-17-2009, 09:10 AM
Pam (Pasqueflower) -
Very well done :clap:.
You studied its perspective in depth, and still the final drawing is loose and has no "forced" feeling at all. Your balance of light and dark, and the rich variety in textures, make it a very nice drawing :thumbsup:

08-21-2009, 01:20 PM
Hi, Arnoud --

Thanks so much for your encouragement!

This is my other project for cubes, also taken from my plein air sketching at this old ranch (preserved as a local history site) -- first, the original sketch:


I'm perched inside the old hay shed, a kind of a corral with a roof over it, and my eye level is a little bit above the farthest corral post -- I believe I put an + mark there. The bales on the ground are arranged in a semi-circle because the hay shed is a gathering place for the guided tour groups. The whole thing, with the bales and part of the corral fence, was perfect for perspective drawing! Now, here's my tracing paper corrections, which I ended up doing in several different colors because of all those bales:


My original 1P perspective on the pole fence turned out to be way off -- I figured the 2P perspective on the straw bales by measuring off from the closest vertical on each bale -- correct?

I hadn't the foggiest notion of how to draw straw :lol: but they seem to at least be recognizable as bales of something or other!


Thanks again, Arnoud :)


08-21-2009, 04:42 PM
Pam -
Great :clap::clap:.
This is a very nice drawing.
Only as an exercise in "seeing", observe how you got carried away a bit while rendering the texture, and marred the perspective of one bale.


That does not diminish the fact that your accomplishment in this class is outstanding :music:.
Move on to class 4 :thumbsup:

08-22-2009, 04:13 AM
Thanks so much, Arnoud! Wow, how I have needed the information and the practices you provided for Class 3 -- to train myself to consider eye level, and perspective, as a regular habit each time I approach a subject.

Class 4! Onward and upward (and, seeing as it's about cylinders, around and around) :lol:

09-17-2009, 04:04 AM
Here is my Class 3 assignment.


09-17-2009, 08:05 AM
Bob -
I did not insist when you left class 1 without completing the assignments, but I draw your attention to the fact that the classroom is structured. The main forum is the appropriate place if you want advice and comments on your work outside that structure. You skipped the chair twice, in class 1 and again in class 2. If you want to follow the structured way, please complete class 2 (the chair) first.

09-18-2009, 10:58 AM
Hi Anoud,

Got stuck into the class today and have submitted a drawing of plain cubes and one of my wood fired heater which comprises cubes. I hope they are suitable.


09-18-2009, 04:11 PM
Pauline -
The assignments of this class are to post a couple of drawings where the main topic is the cubic aspect . So your heater is a perfect example :).
On another line of thoughts, we are no longer preoccupied with perspective from this class on. It is only a tool to help better "see" how to draw it.
In the next drawing, it is good to explore means to get a fuller drawing, not just outlines. You may choose from the pictures in the first posts/PDF, or from your own environment. Apply shading, either "hatching" or more smoothly, "tonal", or suggest some texture.
As to the posted drawings, the perspective is correct :thumbsup:.

09-18-2009, 07:40 PM
Bob -
Thanks for posting your drawing of the chair; However, post your homework only in the relevant thread for that class. The moderator has moved your post to the class 1 thread.
Now on your entries for this class, nice sketches. Only the sketch of the bamboo box is large enough that I can judge on it. The perspective of the top is correct :thumbsup:. Only crit are the sides that are clearly intended to be vertical, but are drawn slanting. Of course it is only a quick sketch.
Until now you have entered sketches, often just outlines. Sketching is good practice, but you were already good at it before starting these classes, as I can see on your pre-class drawing. I assume you want to learn more. My suggestion is to choose a subject that is mainly rectangular, either one of the pictures in the first posts/PDF, or from your own environment, and draw it with shading, or with the rendition of a surface texture. Don't rush, detailed drawing takes time!

09-20-2009, 11:51 AM
Hi Arnoud

Here is a drawing of my television and stand. I have shaded it as requested. Hope it is suitable.



09-20-2009, 02:52 PM
Pauline -
This is very good. Perspective is fully correct, also inside the stand :thumbsup:, I think you have now a thorough understanding of cubic forms. You are ready for next class. The shading is also nicely executed. Next time you draw a finished drawing, with shading, try not to leave outlines where superfluous. There are no outlines in nature, it is all contrast of different values/tones. The only places in your drawing where the outlines were needed, were the fronts of the electronic appliances. Everywhere else, the edge is already defined by a difference of value. To be sure, this applies only to realistic styles. But it is good to practice everything, so that you are not limited as an artist but can make deliberate choices.
Move on to class 4 :music:

09-21-2009, 08:47 AM
Hi,Arnoud! :wave:
It`s me again,with some ...hm..cubic sketches :D http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Sep-2009/131475-cubes_003.jpg

Have a nice day ! :)

09-21-2009, 05:57 PM
Elen -
Nice job :thumbsup:.
But I am a bit confused by the pages with two objects. Do they represent an arrangement or is it a coincidence that the two objects are on the same page? You see, the perspective of each object separately is OK, but they don't match.
Perspective on slender objects needs extra care to get it right. These 4 lines are parallel, so they must converge to one VP. Same, not shown, for the left VP.


Perspective is a kind of undercurrent in this class. But on the whole your drawings are very well executed. Nice shading and good illustration of surface details :clap:.
I think you are ready for class 4. Move on :thumbsup:.

09-22-2009, 03:40 AM
Hello Arnoud,

You are right, detailed drawing takes time and a lot of tears, http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/images/smilies/crying.gif

Enclosed you will find my latest picture of a light tan foot stool with dark wood frame. The lighter or white portion is from the flash attachment of my camera.

09-22-2009, 06:31 AM
Bob -
Nice drawing :).
The first advice in this article on photographing graphite drawings (http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=493891) is no flash.
The perspective is correct, and you did a nice job on the shading and the details :thumbsup:.
Please move on to class 4 :clap:.

09-24-2009, 08:49 AM
Hi,Arnoud, thank you for your comments! :heart:
I`m afraid, I just sketched some boxes without intention of arranging them in any way,so they are just separate objects which happened to share he same page. I`ll make changes to the bottle, thank you for pointing out my mistake !
Your comments `ve been extremely helpful, thank you very much!

10-03-2009, 11:59 PM
Life keeps getting in the way! I finally got to do one image. I have others to do, but getting one in now. Also I have a question about perspective. In this image of the clock on a stone shelf, why does the vanishing point differ so much from the other items in the image? I know my skill has a lot to do with my drawing, but if I print out the photo, it is like it has a different horizon that it is working with in the short distance VP and you really have to reach out for the long side. I know it is not even with the veiwing plane / pane, but something else seems to be going on. In fact all the stone lines seem to hit the vanishing point, not right on the money, but close, I can blame that on the mason that laid up the stones. :o)

I know my clock is messed up, but if I erase and fix it, it will be another day gone by... So I submit it as is.

10-04-2009, 11:12 AM
uneekfish -
Also I have a question about perspective. In this image of the clock on a stone shelf, why does the vanishing point differ so much from the other items in the image? Each set of parallel lines (and in basic perspective, we restrict ourselves to horizontal lines) has its own vanishing point(s). The more the lines come parallel with the plane of the paper, to put it unscientifically, the further away the VP, until it is so far away that we ignore it, and hey presto, scholars call it one-point-perspective. At the same time the second VP (of the lines square to that set of lines) moves towards the center of the drawing. 1PP is also called central perspective.
If you compare the front of the clock with the joints under it, it is clear that they have a different angle and therefore a different set of VP's. But all VP's of horizontal lines lie on the horizon line, i.e. on the same line.
You did it very well :clap:, your perspective analysis is only a bit off on the lower part of the clock. But some verticals are leaning to the right.


I like the shading of the clock, and you did a particularly good job on the texture of the stone wall :clap:.

10-04-2009, 12:23 PM
Here is the next install ment. The shading was much better, but did not scan well, so I hit it a bit darker. Image still looks much better on my end.

10-04-2009, 01:51 PM
uneekfish -
Nice sketch :clap:.
The only crit is about the wheels, but you will learn that in the next class :). Just for your information. Look at them with fresh eyes, in a day or two, you will see that they head in a different direction than the bus :lol:.
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

10-04-2009, 02:07 PM
These look easier than they actually are. I already see that I "flubbed" on the shadow of the one on the left... I will fix it for the record...


10-04-2009, 03:43 PM
I already see how off the wheels are! Amazed that that did not pop out at me when I was doing it!

This is a hutch in my dining room, or at least a simplified version of it. I thought it was going along pretty good, but the top at the left hand side of the drawing, my perspective looks like tou should be able to see some top, but I ws sitting down drawing and could not see the top at all. Can you show me how the lines at the top should be different? My eye level is just a shade above the drawers. I'm thinking that the line should be at the complete opposite angle. I did use a ruler in laying this out, must have gotten confused as I did it. That and the latches on the door, and the one drawer pull too low seem to be my biggest problems.

10-04-2009, 04:22 PM
Everyone is going to get tired of this hutch! I think it could be called improved...

10-04-2009, 05:27 PM
uneekfish -
The drawing of the dice is well executed :thumbsup:. It is a very difficult 3PP view, but you erred only slightly on the far (left) VP's, not easily seen without reconstructing the VL's :clap:.
On the hutch: drawing from real life is the real test for "drawing what you see" instead of what you think that should be there. Analyzing the VL's is boring, but it is a tool to check your imagination. All these lines are without doubt parallel. So they should define a VP:


As a matter of fact, your first version was approximately with a EL above the object. But the upper part should not be so deep:


Your improvement was only very local. Here are more or less the cubes that should be the skeleton on which to build:


But all in all, you had your share of cubes. Pay attention to what you learned here, you can solve most perspective problems by constructing a correct cubic container around the difficult object.
Move on to class 4 :music:.

10-04-2009, 05:37 PM
Thanks! I think one thing was I was way to close to the hutch and so was looking up and down. Not a good idea! However I have learned a great deal from this class! On to 4!

10-08-2009, 05:31 AM
OK I did these while travelling in a pinch of time and realize that the clock in particular needs work.





I know I have to redo the clock, planes are off. I didn't like pic of bldgs as I couldn't really see planes to draw. These were only quick sketches thus far and I am in awe of the work uneekfish has done!

10-08-2009, 08:00 PM
Barbara -
Sketching is fine, it's a very useful practice :thumbsup:. But pay attention to what you already learned, when doing it for the classroom.
The perspective of the (our) left legs are definitely off. The length of legs is notoriously difficult to get right.


Also on the dice: it is a very difficult view and there is no need to get it geometrically correct - we are not in architecture - but it should look reasonable, and in particular further away is smaller.


That building picture has a lot of camera distortion.
I'd like to see a better drawing of the clock and wall. Take your time. Your perspective analysis of that picture is correct :clap:.

10-11-2009, 06:23 PM
OK I paid a little more attention to the vanishing points, but I am not saying it is perfect. In particular, the foot of the clock and the glass were a bit hard to see, I am guessing the glass is 6-sided but I see others drew a 4-sided glass. Here is the sequence of development:



The final one, the lighting was different (outside). I didn't erase the vp lines.


10-11-2009, 07:54 PM
Barbara -
Very good job.
Correct perspective, and nice rendition of the different textures :clap:.
I revisited the reference picture, zooming in and so. I still think that glass has 4 (rounded) sides. Your interpretation has a nice touch -- just don't tell it is 6-sided. That reminds me of the medieval scholars who pretended that a spider had 6 legs :lol:.
You did very well in this class, OK to continue in class 4 :thumbsup:.

10-11-2009, 09:50 PM
thanks Arnoud, the perspective drove me crazy with the angle of the clock. I had to draw all the vanishing points out, and to be mathematical about this. I am trying not to measure and am not tracing, so I end up erasing a LOT. I am in awe of people who can shade glass correctly. It seemed to me that the highlights should be to the left more, but alas they are towards the center.

I was working on the die which are driving me nuts with the out of field VPs, so you are so kind to not insist on my doing that. I will still try it though.

10-12-2009, 12:06 AM
OK I did the dice dwg before going on. I had a little trouble and to try to correct I moved the closer die forward rather than have it as close as in the pic. Shadow may be a bit off too.


Thanks in advance for your critique.

10-12-2009, 06:22 AM
Barbara -
Almost correct :thumbsup:.
You wrote somewhere about relative lengths. That is indeed the basic rule of thumb in perspective: further away looks smaller. That is difficult to estimate in a distorted 3PP picture; putting an extension on the sides -- call it the start of a vanishing line -- helps to visualize the projected length. I see clearly that you know how to draw and use vanishing lines, so this must be an oversight:


Other than that, you succeeded very well in drawing this difficult view :clap:.

11-04-2009, 02:19 AM
Dear Arnoud,
Posting my class 3 assignment. Kindly have a look.

BTW do we have any classes here WC for oil painting? I really love oil painting. If so do let me know is it alright to do two classes at same time.

thanks alot for your kind support.


11-04-2009, 09:04 AM
oviyam -
This is a nice architectural drawing.
The difficulty in architecture is that even the slightest perspective error stands out :o.
Most of these (blue and green) are not really wrong, but they could be more consistent. I feel that the red lines indicate a conceptual error. These edges lie parallel to the long wall of the building, so they must have the same VP as the green VL's. You observed very well that centers are shifted to the back, but you overdid it. You can find the true center in perspective by drawing the diagonals (purple).


As far as I am aware, there is no structured class on oils. There are regular tutorials and classes on specific aspects in the Oil Forum (http://wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10). I have also seen discussions on "old masters'" techniques in the Classical Forum (http://wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=110).
I like very much how you start to use shading to give structure instead of relying on outlines :thumbsup:. That is a good preparation for painting: expressing shapes instead of lines.

11-09-2009, 02:36 AM
Dear arnoud,
posting my class 3 assignment with corrected perspectives as per your instruction. As far as i didn't use the ruler there may be still mistakes. kindly review it.


thanks for your patience.


11-09-2009, 05:01 AM
jarish -
This is very good :clap:.
A tip - outside the scope of this class - on shading: don't be tempted to choose the easiest direction. That gives an inconsistent texture, e.g. the front wall close to the steps and bottom vs. higher up. Many artists use a consistent 45° hatching in sketches. In more finished drawings you can enhance the feeling of the form by the direction of your shading strokes.
You did very well here, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

11-09-2009, 05:53 AM
Thanks arnoud. see you in the class 4.

thanks for your guidance.

11-28-2009, 05:31 PM
Hi Arnoud,
Fancy meeting you here :wave:.

I originally just drew the silo, copying from JayD's drawing. I thought that was the assignment. Then I read further on through all the posts, and saw that the perspective was being checked also. So I took out my trusty eraser, and went to work:
Next I'm going to draw cubes from different things I see, I believe that's the rest of the assignment?
I adjusted all the parallel lines with Arnoud in mind! :)
I do have a question though. Like I stated, I originally just sketched the silo. But when I started doing the perspective thing, I used my ruler extensively. But it seems that I'm drafting more than drawing. Should I be so particular at this point,using a ruler for the perspective, or just sort of get back to drawing, keeping in mind perspective, put away the ruler, and draw my lines generally in the right direction?
Again, thanks for your time.

11-28-2009, 06:47 PM
Gary -
Completely correct :clap:.

Next I'm going to draw cubes from different things I see, I believe that's the rest of the assignment?
That is right. And post 2 or 3 drawings of subjects, either chosen from the pictures in the first post, or from your own environment. This is the most important class of the introduction (classes 1 through 7). It will pay off to practice carefully.
...,using a ruler for the perspective, or just sort of get back to drawing, keeping in mind perspective, put away the ruler, and draw my lines generally in the right direction?
What's worth doing is worth doing badly :lol:.
If it is important to get the perspective right, for instance complicated buildings or interiors with furniture, walls, doors and whatnot, do use a ruler. If not important, just guess.
Also, where straight lines matter, as in architecture, use a ruler to draw a very faint line, then go over it freehand to take away the mechanical impression.

12-01-2009, 09:33 AM
Good morning Arnoud,
Here is my assignment of cubes around me:
You can tell where I've been spending my time.
The drawings are of things I see from my desk at work.
From left top - A 2 drawer heavy duty file cabinet, a shredder, a law book, my pencil sharpener, a table, and a pack of cigarettes.
One could see cubes in an amazing amount of things.

12-01-2009, 06:15 PM
Gary -
One could see cubes in an amazing amount of things. That is true. And you saw them all right :clap:.
You may very well move on to class 4:thumbsup:

01-05-2010, 02:12 AM
My drawing for class 3: my old 78rpm record player.


01-05-2010, 06:59 AM
Martin -
Nice job :clap:.
Your theoretical understanding of perspective is already very good, I'd like to make two comments to give you a better "feeling" for it:
-- this picture has an unpleasant distortion. That is because your analytical mind wanted to see the VP's, you put them too close together. In realistic drawings/paintings the "far" VP is most of the time out of sight. And as an artist, you just guess a bit how much the VL's should converge.
-- "farther away looks smaller" that applies also to inclined planes. It's beyond these beginners' classes how to construct it, but again, make sure they are not parallel:


You did very well, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:

01-05-2010, 11:08 AM
Thanks for your input Arnoud. I see what you mean about putting the VPs further apart. I knew that there was an issue with perspective on the inclined surface - now I'm curious about the answer!


01-05-2010, 12:07 PM
Martin -
It's on an intermediate level, but as you ask, and I am confident you can follow, here is the geometric construction, with auxiliary VP's. Perpendicular under (and above, look for what should be a gut feeling: farther away looks smaller) the "real" VP.


Same in principle for the small sides, but that is very far above the paper, just guess it, but not as you did, the other way round, ... farther.... :evil:.

Very often, it is not at all necessary to use this method, for instance for a roof, you construct it on the walls.


See you in class 4 :thumbsup:

01-05-2010, 12:43 PM
Ahh - now I see! Thanks for taking the time to show me.


01-07-2010, 11:40 PM
I worked on my table from the last lesson. It does look much better. :) I really tried to set it up in a cube first then erase to bring in the details. I will complete the rest of the assignments in the next few days.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2010/210164-class_3_table-11.jpg

01-08-2010, 12:37 AM
I couldn't stand it. My table still looked off. I worked a little more and I would prefer to submit this version. Sorry it's a little blurry because I took a picture, my scanner is at work.


01-08-2010, 09:25 AM
Laurie -
You are working hard :).
A table is a very good "draw what you see" exercise, even without the perspective issue. That table is a real novelty with that location of the back leg :lol:. As to perspective, the legs stand on the floor, and the top is parallel to the floor - so the lines connecting the feet share the VP with the sides of the top.


Another remark, for which I did not indicate the correction, because it shifts the whole drawing: the left VP is too high. ALL VP's of horizontal lines lie on the horizon, aka Eye Level.
With your dedication, you will progress fast :thumbsup:.

01-08-2010, 10:30 AM
OK, Arnoud, I am going to try one more time. Whew!

01-09-2010, 05:00 AM
Here is my table AGAIN....I really tried to keep it in perspective with the floor. I did a lot of erasing but I can see it is better. I had to use my camera again. sorry


01-09-2010, 05:02 AM
Oh, I forgot to include my dice...:o


01-09-2010, 08:52 AM
Laurie -
Nice final drawing of the table :clap:.
As to the dice, it is also very good given it is almost a trick question. This class on cubes is more or less a rehearsal of perspective. It is very useful in later classes. If in doubt about the perspective of a more complicated form, put it in a "cubic" container, and look for the correct perspective of the container.
Two remarks on your drawing:
-- you saw correctly that there are 4 VP's for the horizontal lines. However you put them on 2 different EL's. In realistic drawings/paintings the picture is conceived as seen by one person in one moment. [Cubists introduced the notion of combining parts of several views (in time and/or in location) in the same picture.] That means there can be only one EL.
-- This photo is in 3PP, i.e. also the vertical lines converge. You can choose to change it into 2PP. 3PP is only used for its dramatic effect as a general rule, in comics for instance. Cameras for architectural photography used to have a tiltable backplate in order to correct for the 3PP effect. Now we do it with software:


But if you draw in 3PP, then all "vertical" lines must converge to the same (sole) VP, as all vertical lines run parallel to each other.


And in particular further away looks smaller !
You don't have to redraw these, I think in this case you can learn more from tackling another example.
Keep it up :thumbsup:

01-11-2010, 09:26 PM
I re-did the dice, this time the vertical lines are straight as they should be. I also did the assignment. I tried to do the clock and glass but became very frustrated so I put bags on the mantel instead. I hope that is ok...:wink2:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Jan-2010/210164-dice.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Jan-2010/210164-Bricks.jpg

01-12-2010, 08:54 AM
Laurie -
Good work. The dice are correct now.
vertical lines are straight as they should be Not true that they "should" be vertical. In fact this is an area where you normally do not "draw what you see" :lol:. If you put your eye very close to a pair of dice, to copy the position of the camera for this shot, you will see that your eyes distort the view in the same manner. In reality we see everything in 3PP. But we draw/paint it only when the dramatic effect is wanted, mostly in comics, but also e.g. the Dali crucifix that abounds on postcards and so.
The bricks are also well done :clap:. But you missed the perspective of the large box. If you look at the grout line of the bricks, you see that they are horizontal at the EL. Likewise, the top of that box will be almost flat.
Also, remember: further away looks smaller


You finished this class, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:

Samira Humaid
01-13-2010, 10:54 AM
Hello Arnoud, this is my assignment for lesson 3.

01-13-2010, 05:42 PM
Samira -
I see you understand the cubic form, and the perspective is also correct :clap:.
You did a lot of cubes in your pre-class drawing already, so I'd say
Yes :thumbsup: move on to class 4.

02-10-2010, 04:15 PM
Here is a pic of my dice!

02-11-2010, 06:09 AM
Lisa -
Well done. And the perspective is also correct :clap:.

02-11-2010, 09:56 AM
:) Not only are these exercises helping me with perspective and drawing, but I am learning all about the different kinds of erasers and which ones work best :lol: !

More cube exercises to follow soon.

02-14-2010, 09:59 AM
Figure 1 Drawing

02-14-2010, 11:15 AM
Lisa -
It is a nice copy of the sketch of the "barn" - actually it is a silo (http://www.pbase.com/mad_monte1/image/88728239) - but perspective errors are very visible in cubic objects.


Compare that with the example sketch (still an error in the upper roof, but it was an uncorrected sketch)


You don't have to redraw this, but check the perspective carefully in your next exercise. This class is the most important of the beginners' suite of 5. It will pay off to practice the correct drawing of rectangular forms.

02-14-2010, 12:46 PM
:( <sigh>
I put the ruler away for this exercise, as is evident. I just enjoyed drawing it, but I will put the ruler back to work for some more cubic exercises :wink2:.

02-16-2010, 04:51 AM

This time I decided to try some shading :) .



It's really hard to draw the circles :crying: .

02-16-2010, 05:46 AM
kiffays -
Well done. And a good eye for perspective :clap:.

02-16-2010, 08:43 PM
Some more items.

02-17-2010, 04:14 AM
two more drawings.



02-17-2010, 08:58 AM
Lisa -
You worked very well :thumbsup:.
Rectangular forms, "cubes", are very critical on perspective. Not so much when drawn isolated, but in a context, people will "feel" that something is wrong, even if they cannot explain why.
No comments:



A general advice, nothing to do with drawing: look at these articles about avoiding flash (http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=493891) and dressing the photo (http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=572823) before posting.
You practiced diligently in this class, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

02-17-2010, 09:09 AM
kiffays -
Nice drawings :clap:.
When you include a suggestion of the "real" horizon in your drawing, you cannot longer choose your perspective. On the right it is not entirely correct, but satisfactory. But what happened at the left side?


Parallel lines on a rectangular object are very critical.


You did very well in this class. Move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

02-21-2010, 01:52 AM




well here we go again.
Bobbie :wave:

02-21-2010, 10:14 AM
Bobbie -
You're very dedicated :thumbsup:.
You understand the basics, but don't hurry :evil:. "Draw what you see", means also "see what you've drawn", check it, compare it.
I would not buy from the carpenter that made this :lol:


All these lines are horizontal and parallel to each other. Therefore they must converge to a common VP.


You understand it good enough to move on to class 4, but take your time. You don't learn as much if you just jot it down.

02-25-2010, 11:49 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Feb-2010/201217-2ppersp.dobbelstenen.jpg It's a few days ago, but i made this drawing this vacation.
I checked it a few times, so, I hope it's correct!


02-25-2010, 01:49 PM
Leonie -
Very well done :clap:. I like how you corrected the camera distortion. It is clear you understand it, but stay attentive, an error slips easily in:


Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

03-02-2010, 03:57 PM
Hi Class 3,

Reference from the WetCanvas image library:

Rough with perspective lines:

Corrected rendering:

Will get to the dice later, and perhaps the silo.
Corrections and comments continue to be appreciated,

03-02-2010, 04:59 PM
Alex -
This is extremely well done :clap::clap::clap:.
I have nothing to add.

03-04-2010, 07:08 PM
Thank you, Arnoud.

Dice Rough:



My evaluation of the silo was that all of its cubes were in 1 point perspective, and I was very casual with proportions. If I should re-do it, please let me know! :)

The dice-cubes looked like they were in 3 point perspective to me, which I thought would be fun to try. So the rough includes the nadir (a word I only know from having done my research for these classes! :wink2: ) and vanishing points etc. After uploading I noticed the near die has a bit too much of it's top surface showing. :o

Am I class 4 worthy? :cat:

03-05-2010, 06:32 AM
Alex -
Very well done :clap:.
Ready for class 4? Definitely, move on :thumbsup:.

03-08-2010, 09:34 PM
Attached are my sketches for class 3:)

03-09-2010, 08:51 AM
Paul -
You worked hard, very dedicated :thumbsup:.
The bricks, etc. : I have the uneasy feeling that you are misled by the terms 1PP and 2PP. Those are mathematical terms, and have no real relation to the actual number of VP's in the drawing. Even on a single object: a hexagonal prism, a bit shifted, has 3 VP's. But mathematically this is still 2PP.


A better theory for artists is: a drawing has a central VP - as a matter of composition, it is not necessarily exactly in the middle. That is the common VP for all horizontal lines that run square on the plane of the paper. Then other horizontal lines have their own VP, one for each set of parallel lines.
You forced the clock to the same angle as the grout lines. But that is not very logical, people will want to see the dial. Here is a detail of the reference; also observe how you drew the cube for the glass out of proportion.


You followed the same process for the dice,

On the silo: the under halve is OK, that is drawn as a cube. But at the top, there are no vanishing lines, all backward lines run parallel with the plane of the paper. It lacks volume, it is more kinda cardboard theater prop.


In this particular instance, you would better put the VP farther to the right, in order to avoid unpleasant distortions.

03-09-2010, 10:59 AM
Paul -
You worked hard, very dedicated :thumbsup:.
The bricks, etc. : I have the uneasy feeling that you are misled by the terms 1PP and 2PP. Those are mathematical terms, and have no real relation to the actual number of VP's in the drawing. Even on a single object: a hexagonal prism, a bit shifted, has 3 VP's. But mathematically this is still 2PP.


A better theory for artists is: a drawing has a central VP - as a matter of composition, it is not necessarily exactly in the middle. That is the common VP for all horizontal lines that run square on the plane of the paper. Then other horizontal lines have their own VP, one for each set of parallel lines.
You forced the clock to the same angle as the grout lines. But that is not very logical, people will want to see the dial. Here is a detail of the reference; also observe how you drew the cube for the glass out of proportion.


You followed the same process for the dice,

On the silo: the under halve is OK, that is drawn as a cube. But at the top, there are no vanishing lines, all backward lines run parallel with the plane of the paper. It lacks volume, it is more kinda cardboard theater prop.


In this particular instance, you would better put the VP farther to the right, in order to avoid unpleasant distortions.

Good observation, you were spot on with your comment re VP vs PP... I did think 1PP meant only one VP... I think this makes a huge difference -- great.... I will give these another shot!!!

03-09-2010, 03:04 PM
Ok here it is again.... hopefully this is closer:(

03-09-2010, 04:14 PM
Paul -
Well done :clap:. The perspective is correct. The subject of this class is drawing cuboid forms, and you succeeded on that. But for the remainder of these classes, I'd like you to keep closer to the reference. A bit of creativity and artistic license is fine, but don't change the basic character of the reference. Your copy of the silo reminds me more of an industrial chicken farm. And the grandfather's clock metamorphosed into a modern electronic timepiece. As for the glass ...? It is rather far from "draw what you see", don't you agree :lol:?
OK, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

03-09-2010, 04:49 PM
Ok great.... I will stay on reference, or at least try:D

03-13-2010, 12:43 PM
Hi Arnoud :wave:

sorry I've not been in the classroom for a little while - I've been busy drawing portraits, rabbits and practising eyes as part of the weekly drawing thread. Anyhow, back to the classes - I have drawn the exercises from class 3 and I would be grateful if you could cast your eye over them.

Hope that these are OK.


03-13-2010, 03:30 PM
Steven -
Very well done :clap:. Correct perspective, careful drawing.
Move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

03-13-2010, 06:15 PM
Thanks Arnoud

03-16-2010, 02:59 AM

I've been stealing moments away at work to draw again. :lol:

Here is my first attempt at lesson 3 exersizes. I should submit 3 in total right?

Freehand sketch of the basic shapes. I only used draw and redraw here.
The final sketch after checking perspective and adding detail. Those little dots are a paaaaaain, and I still didn't get them right. :rolleyes:


03-16-2010, 07:10 AM
Tailspin -
Well done :clap:.
Yes, 3 is fine :thumbsup:.

03-17-2010, 03:24 AM
Hello again

This is a robot I conjured up using various pictures on the net and a couple of my son's toys.

The initial freehand sketch. Way too flat and wonky legs.

The final outcome. Straightening those legs was a challenge as one of them is angled back. Those elipses gave me nightmares last night, lol. :lol:

Now I look at it again, I see the left hand is a bit small and the right leg is still not convincing.
Still I kinda like the way he turned out. I do believe drawing made up stuff is my favorite thing. :p


03-17-2010, 04:49 AM
Tailspin -
Very nice job :clap:.
I see you took on a challenge of next class already :lol:.
Well, you have definitely the required level for this class, move on to class 4 indeed :thumbsup:.
Ellipses :evil:.

03-17-2010, 10:45 AM
Thanks Arnoud!

It's great that you give us so much attention in here. It really helps the learning process when you know there is a teacher who won't take ages to evaluate an assignment.

On to my nemisis! Those evil ellipses...


03-21-2010, 10:30 AM
First part of assignment for dice showing perspective....

If the perspective is correct will continue with the final drawing of the dice.

03-21-2010, 11:36 AM
Marie -
Perfect :thumbsup:.

03-22-2010, 09:18 AM
Finished Dice....

Silo next?.......

03-22-2010, 12:34 PM
Marie -
Nice dice -- :lol:
The silo would be a good exercise, the reference is not a photo, but a quick sketch. So you will be in a similar situation when developing your own "plein air" sketches.

03-23-2010, 12:12 PM
Silo assignment...
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Mar-2010/102905-initial_sketch_silo_class_3.jpg Initial sketch

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Mar-2010/102905-alterations_for_perspective_on_initial_sketch.jpg alterations for perspective

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Mar-2010/102905-silo_finished3.jpg finished.....

03-23-2010, 02:55 PM
Marie -
Very well done :clap:.
Good basic development / construction, and nice finishing texture.
Move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

03-23-2010, 04:37 PM
Thanks Arnoud...see you over there:wave:

03-25-2010, 06:25 PM
Arnoud, I like this house, it´s from the Reference Image Library. I hope you can accept it, with the dice, as exercises for Class 3. Even with perspective lines and diagonals I found both a real challenge, especially the eyes of the dice - I could not really get them right, I mostly had to rely on my eyes.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Mar-2010/216509-3214020040509-Eskisehir-Odunpazari_03.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Mar-2010/216509-img086.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Mar-2010/216509-cubesample5.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Mar-2010/216509-img088.jpg

03-25-2010, 08:53 PM
Einar -
Very nice job :clap::clap:.
Correct perspective construction. And very nice textures and shading :clap:.
Move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

03-26-2010, 03:46 AM
Thank you Arnoud for help and encouragement. In this exercise I have started to practice the circular motion shading method. I hope this method will work out in some winter scenes that I am planning.


04-06-2010, 03:10 PM
I used 3 point perspective on this one.

Here's the photo, initial sketch, and perspective-fixed final.

Thanks for looking at this.


04-06-2010, 04:03 PM
Joe -
Looks very good :clap:.
Correct perspective, and commendable initiative to draw from real life :thumbsup:.

04-07-2010, 03:16 PM
Thank you, Arnoud! I'll go onto class 4 unless you say otherwise.


04-07-2010, 03:39 PM
Thank you, Arnoud! I'll go onto class 4 unless you say otherwise.

Joe Well, we expect more than one exercise in the lower classes :(.

05-14-2010, 04:28 AM
Cubic objects:


THANK YOU, Frinthy :smug:

05-14-2010, 07:09 AM
Frinthy -
Well done.
One remark: I think you gave your builder a tough job here :lol::


OK, move on to class 4 :thumbsup:.

05-14-2010, 07:18 AM
Arnoud -

Thank you. :angel:

That's a good point! I'm not sure if it's right but strange indeed.


05-14-2010, 08:01 AM
So this is what you meant :D:


05-26-2010, 11:21 AM
Hi there,
I'm having issues with these simple birdhouses. Let me know if I'm making too much out of it.

After my first sketch of these I decided I really needed to go back to my boxes drawing from the last lesson. I had an "aha!" moment when I realized that all of the boxes that had parallel vertical lines would have the same vanishing point! So I went back to this sketch and redrew all of my birdhouses and something was still off. I figured out that my horizon line was too low and have redrawn my sketch yet again, but now I'm having issues with the roof tops of the birdhouses.

These seem to me to be on another plane? So now will they all have a separate (but shared) vanishing point? My husband says they are parallel, but I think it's more like the lid on Martin's record player.

Thanks for taking a look. My gut tells me I just need to get the basic cubes worked out with the correct horizon lines and vanishing points and then just make sure the roof tops are not parallel and move on from there.


05-26-2010, 12:19 PM
Melanie -
It's a good start. Let's look into some problem areas.
when I realized that all of the boxes that had parallel vertical lines would have the same vanishing point Correct IF you meant horizontal :evil:.

The back of the roof is further away than the front, so it is smaller, and you are right that its edges cannot be parallel. In fact each side of the roof has 2 VP's, one for the horizontal edges and one for the slanting edges. The horizontal edges run parallel to the side wall, and so they share the VP of the walls. The VP's of oblique edges lies above - or under - the EL. Their construction methods don't belong to the basic treatment of perspective, but for a symmetric roof there is an easy work-around:


(The diagonals of a rectangle cross in the middle, that does not change when drawn in perspective)

Your saying "the boxes have the same VP" is not correct fundamentally: VL 's are related to (parallel) edges or imaginary connecting lines, not to objects.


Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

05-28-2010, 12:46 PM
Here is my class 3 assignment. Thanks for your help with this.


05-28-2010, 07:07 PM
Melanie -
Very nice work :clap:.
Nicely developed perspective, and a clean pencil technique.
You definitely understood the subject matter of this class.
Move on to class 4 :thumbsup:

06-03-2010, 04:38 PM
Hi Arnoud :)
How are you today? This was supposed to be an easy class so why did I have to go and complicate the issue. First the die: (I don't recommend anyone play at this table :o) one square and one rectangle, hmmm:(

Can't get it to upload!
Well on to the next; a cottage from the RIL (thanks Geoff)

I noticed afterward that all the corners were rounded and the roof - well you see what I mean. The last image is a barn which was in a tutorial by Dianne Wright on skies. I had to reposition the barn a bit to show the cube form. Anyways not my best work on any of them. So sorry since you are kind enough to donate your time. I promise to make a better effort next class.

Ok, none showing up. I'll try again

06-03-2010, 07:22 PM
Grace -
Well done. Although the results are not always the best, I see that you understood the principles :).
I'm not sure what your problem with the upload is, but probably you can try this work-around:
If you upload and get an image returned but clicking on it does not insert it in the text, you can copy the picture url (shown under the picture) and insert it yourself between ...[/IMG} tags.

I find the easiest way to "copy the picture url" is to Right-click on the picture to get the "context menu", then choose "Copy Image Location". Followed by the obvious [I]Ctrl-V in the editor.

The uploader is in a bad mood frequently. As a matter of fact, I no longer try the "canonical" way, I'm always using this work-around immediately.
See you in clas 4 :thumbsup:.

06-04-2010, 05:03 AM
Thanks boss!!

I really do appreciate all the time, effort, and understanding you put into these lessons. You really must be blessed with mega patience.

I'll try the work-around - sounds promising and hopefully, at least one of my issues with technology will be solved.:D

See you in the next class.

07-06-2010, 05:27 PM
Hello Arnoud,

I am so grateful for all your time and advices.

Here is a dice sketch.