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dollardays
09-20-2004, 11:55 PM
I am doing another Bougereau copy and this forum seemed like the best place to put it. It is jeunes bohemiennes, but I am cropping it to fit my 18 x 24 canvas.

Here is the original with the crop I plan to use. Notice how I get myself out of doing the landscape and can concentrate on the figures. Truthfully, I would attempt the entire painting but I don't have a place to hang a canvas that size and I do want the heads closer to life size so they are easier to work on.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Sep-2004/3589-original.jpg

The underpainting is greenish umber and the overpainting palette I am starting with is:

1-Ultramarine Blue
2-Alizarian Crimson
3-Yellow Ochre
4-Flake White

Secondary colors I will use sparingly if needed:

5-Burnt Sienna
6-Cadmium Red light

I think that should about do it but I'm not sure. I want to really limit the palette to explore color possibilities. I don't plan to use any medium except turps (progressively less with each painting session) unless I have to adjust color with glazing.

First I coated the canvas with a wash of yellow ochre and let it dry. Then I marked out placement with charcoal, which I had to rub off with a turp rag because it wouldn't powder off. (I think the yellow ochre was not totally dry.)

So I ended up drawing with the paint, which is just as easy I guess. I tried to get fairly close to the values in the picture, hoping I could then concentrate on color only while I was painting. I was off on the placement and the figures ended up even larger than I thought they would but the composition still looks OK so I'll leave it.

Tomorrow I'll start on the background, which I hope to do first.

---------------------------------------
Nora


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Sep-2004/3589-jeunes-bohemiennes-copy-1.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Sep-2004/3589-jeunes-bohemiennes-copy-2.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Sep-2004/3589-jeunes-bohemiennes-copy-3.jpg

A Few Pigments
09-21-2004, 01:27 AM
Hi Nora

You have an excellent start here. :) Will you be working entirely in glazes and scumbling?

dcorc
09-21-2004, 04:36 AM
A great start here Nora - I'll watch with interest.

Dave

dollardays
09-21-2004, 09:40 AM
Uh oh.. I just noticed the child's head is tipped toward the viewer. Oops. Why do I always notice these things too late. I'm not sure if I'll try to fix that or not. I will probably concentrate on getting the sky done today. It will be a challenge for me because I don't work plein air and I have thrown away every landscape I have ever painted.

Hi Nora
You have an excellent start here. Will you be working entirely in glazes and scumbling?

Hi Bruce- No, I don't usually glaze at all because I paint without medium most of the time. I'll glaze, but rarely, if the paint dries before I get the color right and it's lighter than it should be. I try to avoid this by working on small sections I know I can complete within a day. I will scumble color over almost dried paint, especially if I need to warm a flesh tone and didn't notice it in the beginning. My goal is always to paint directly and leave it, but I mess up too much for that to be possible.

A Few Pigments
09-21-2004, 09:38 PM
Hi Nora
I understand how you work now. Opaque layers and using a brush or your fingers to blend and smooth out transitions betwixt value changes. I tried something different with the clouds in The Storm and Iím not entirely happy with the result. I think the clouds look good from a distance but not close up. Still, an impasto painting looks better from a distance than close up, and thatís not a bad thing. Iím seriously thinking of doing a Bougereau in impasto just for the experience.

Jaysen
09-22-2004, 08:07 AM
Hi Nora. Good start so far. If the tilt of the head is a little off, then so be it. As long as it still looks real in proportion and isn't freakish, I wouldn't try to change it. I personally don't see a problem with it, it looks very nice.

Please keep us up to date, I know I'll be watching for updates.

dollardays
09-22-2004, 01:45 PM
I did get a couple hours free to do the sky last night. It looked good then, but now it looks a bit redder in places than Bougereau's. This is a problem I always run into -- but I have to work during the day so it's only going to get worse in the winter.

I guess I don't care. My goal was to get it done in one shot and use only two colors in case I needed to retouch it when I paint the figures in. I used A. Crimson and U. Blue plus lots of white and I did add a few dabs of cobalt in a couple places just for variation. The yellow background really helped retain some warmth in the sky and I was almost happy with it when I was done.

Plus I used a FAN brush for the first time ever. It helped get those little swirly clouds in there. I was feeling so Bob Rossish when I got done. "Put a little cloud here... make it a happy one...." Thank God I didn't have to put in any little trees.

Have attached a photo of the happy little clouds. Next I am going to work on the child's dress and hopefully I can blend it into the background before that dries.

--------------------
Nora

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Sep-2004/3589-jeune-bonhommes-4a.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Sep-2004/3589-jeune-bonhommes-4.jpg

TruEnuff
09-22-2004, 11:01 PM
I did get a couple hours free to do the sky last night. It looked good then, but now it looks a bit redder in places than Bougereau's. This is a problem I always run into -- but I have to work during the day so it's only going to get worse in the winter.

Have attached a photo of the happy little clouds. Next I am going to work on the child's dress and hopefully I can blend it into the background before that dries.
Nora

Nora....this is a wonderful start. Frankly I admire your courage as well as your skill. What a challenge those angelic faces and flesh tones will be! Your beginning drawing and lay-in is excellent - faithful to the masterwork you are copying. The sky looks good to me...I can envision you lightening it as you go along...and as you establish the values in the figures...but then again, maybe not!

I really look forward to witnessing your progress on this...and having your blow by blow description of the process. I am a long way from attempting a Bougereau, but I can live vicariously through your talent!

Biki
09-23-2004, 03:39 AM
I really love your sky so far - the richness of the colours is striking.

looking forward to seeing this unfold. Bravo for you efforts so far.

Jaysen
09-23-2004, 07:45 AM
I love the sky. It really makes the figures jump out at you.

dollardays
09-23-2004, 04:25 PM
Thanks for the encouragement--TruEnuff, Biki and Jaysen. I am very sure I will not be able to do this painting justice but it's fun to try anyway. And I always learn something when i try to copy from a master. So far I have learned that gray is a tough color to mix with the three primaries I am using. So it is not a true gray but I don't care that much.

I was not looking forward to painting the girl's dress and it took me over two hours to finish it. Lots of complicated folds and the whole thing is very gray. I don't use black so I mixed the gray with white, az. crimson and yellow ochre, adding a lot of blue for the shadow areas and less blue and more white for the base coat. It wasn't quite right so I added some burnt sienna to the mixture in places that were a bit warmer. I tried to keep the main color warm gray but it kept drifting to cool with all that blue and crimson. Finally I had the whole dress done and the shadows were way too cool so I brushed yellow ochre right over the wet paint- but didn't blend it and this seemed to help. I did the same thing in the areas in sunlight but used yellow ochre with lots more white for the lightest lights. Keeping the mixtures simple was my goal at this point - and I forgot to do the strap on the dress so I'll have to mix this again at some point.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Sep-2004/3589-jeunes-bohemiennes-copy-4.jpg

Then I decided it was time to clean my palette so I used up the burnt sienna (with a tiny bit of blue and yellow to gray it slightly) - and made a wash to paint in the shadows on her face. The purple marks on the skin are a reminder to me that these areas should reflect some blue-violet from the sky. Tomorrow I'll try to finish the face of the older girl. Also started working on shaping the eyes a bit.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Sep-2004/3589-Peasant-child_010.jpg

------------------------------
Nora

Jaysen
09-23-2004, 05:01 PM
Watch out for the difference in eyeball and surrounding flesh/lashes. In the original, her eyes seem large and luminous, but that's mostly the shadows surrounding the eyes on the lids and lashes. The eyeballs themselves aren't that big.

dollardays
09-24-2004, 06:45 AM
Watch out for the difference in eyeball and surrounding flesh/lashes. In the original, her eyes seem large and luminous, but that's mostly the shadows surrounding the eyes on the lids and lashes. The eyeballs themselves aren't that big.
Hi Jaysen,

Good point- I always tend to make eyes a bit large. The thing I am most worried about here is keeping them at the right angle as her head is tilted. Nothing worse than crooked eyes.

Here is where I am now- added cadmium red light to the paint mixtures to get the pink but otherwise still trying to get it with the limited palette. I will try the child's head next. The gilr's hair was pretty difficult for me. A lot more violet than anything else.
___________________________
Nora

Jaysen
09-24-2004, 11:55 AM
Her right eye, on our left, is too close to the nose ridge. Is it too late to make that big of a change?

dollardays
09-24-2004, 01:18 PM
Her right eye, on our left, is too close to the nose ridge. Is it too late to make that big of a change?

Thanks Jaysen- always good to have other eyes looking. I don't think it will be too hard to fix- I have to mix up new skin tones for the child anyway. The lips are off too, but they look "OK".

dollardays
09-26-2004, 07:41 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Sep-2004/3589-jeunes-bohemiennes-copy-8-palette.jpg

This is the palette, in case anyone is interested. Warms for shadows and the pinks for areas in the sun. I don't know why the shadows are so warm as this is outside and you would think they would be cooler. I'm just tryng to follow what he did and it hasn't been easy. :)

Here is a progression of the child's face.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Sep-2004/3589-jeunes-bohemiennes-copy-10.jpg

And now I will leave this to dry, work on another part and come back to it with some glazing to adjust the tones. Unless I give up.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Sep-2004/3589-jeunes-bohemiennes-copy-11.jpg


___________________________
Nora

A Few Pigments
09-26-2004, 08:02 AM
Don't give up. Hang in there. You can do it. :)

TruEnuff
09-26-2004, 11:50 AM
Nora.....Give up? I don't think so! This is going wonderfully in my opinion. I'm very impressed with what you have done. I can't imagine even attempting a Bougereau, yet you not only attempt it, you succeed. I think I'm the one who should quit! :D

Nice work....please keep going.


Bruce

Jaysen
09-26-2004, 11:50 PM
Very nice skin tones. I'll be referencing this when I get into the color layer of my madame x painting. Thanks for posting and keep up the good work.

ptantono
09-27-2004, 12:29 AM
Bouguereau is one of my favourite artist. Thanks for showing your step by step progress Nora. It is a lovely work, you did well.

Best regards,
Patricia

Florian
09-27-2004, 06:48 AM
Hi Nora

You donít really think to give up, do you? This is going to be a wonderful painting. Itís interesting to fallow your progress and thanks for the palette. Bouguereau is one of my favourite artist and Iím going to try the next Master of the Month ďLíAmour et Psyche enfantsĒ, Iím sure we meet us there. Keep on posting updates, Iím looking forward to your finished painting. :)

Florian

dollardays
09-29-2004, 11:03 AM
You people are all really encouraging. Maybe it's not as bad as it seems to me. I haven't had much time to work on them lately. So here is where I am at now, after another couple half hour sessions of working on "skin".

The baby's hand is puffy- I am not sure why. The woman's arm is very muscular in his version and I think I unconsciously toned that down because it didn't look very natural to me. Woman's face is way off from the original but she does look normal... I think. Except for what Jayson said about the eye.

Could I get by without changing that do you think? I am positive I won't get a good likeness anyway unless I repaint her whole face (and I'm not going to do it- this is already taking longer than I planned and I am losing interest.)

I am going to try to finish the hands and arms and get to the white shirts this week.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Sep-2004/3589-jeunes-bohemiennes-copy-13.jpg

Jaysen
09-29-2004, 01:42 PM
I think you can definitely get by without changing it completely. You could shift the eye's right and left borders pretty easily and move it minutely. Or, you can leave it as is. Since noone else has talked about it, it could be easily overlooked. I think I've just been staring at it too long.

The girl's face is definitely realistic enough to stand as is, though not an exact duplicate of the original.

Please don't take me wrong, this is a very very small thing, and shouldn't overshadow your very beautifull work here. As for the arm, I think it's coming along fine. What is left to do on it? I would think a final glaze?

The baby's hand looks puffy because of the rapid change in value from the edge to the center. This makes the hand look like it is very thick. If you were to make the transition either less of a change (contrast) between the two extremes, or you can make it a more gradual change from the darkest edge of shadow to the highlight in the middle, making the highlight area a little smaller.

dcorc
09-29-2004, 01:50 PM
Hi Nora - you seem rather discouraged - you certainly shouldn't be.

I agree with all the comments Jaysen's just posted - in particular the childs hand and the forearm just need some gentler transitions, I think.

Personally I'd just scumble a midtone over the area very thinly to soften the transitions.

Anyway, couple of days hence, you'll be entertained as we all struggle with the skin-tones :p

Dave

Carey Griffel
09-29-2004, 04:15 PM
Nora, just wanted to pipe up and say that you're doing terrific!! Thanks for posting this wip, kinda gives a headstart of peeking over someone's shoulder before October comes. ;) You always do such a fantastic job; I just love your work and this is *certainly* no exception!!

~!Carey

TruEnuff
09-29-2004, 07:25 PM
Nora....I just find this exceptionally well done. It's a beautiful reproduction of a beautiful masterwork. I would be proud of it, personally. I think Jaysen is right about both the eye and the hand....those are perceptive comments and suggestions. I also agree that there's no need to do anything with the eye unless you want to....no one would notice unless comparing it directly to the original work..and even then it would probably take another artist to see it... I don't think it detracts.

As you work on the white shirts, notice how the edge of the white blouse is completely lost in the light from behind in the orginal work. It's a very intense light at that area of the painting. Early on, I commented that you might eventually consider lightening the background, and I still feel that.

A lovely painting.....Nice work......

Bruce

A Few Pigments
09-29-2004, 07:29 PM
Seeing your painting makes me want to give up, but I wonít. Iím just too darn stubborn dag nabit :)

dollardays
09-29-2004, 10:26 PM
It is encouraging that you're all still here, but a little bit intimidating, too. Because I feel like I HAVE to finish this thing now. :p

I will show you why I am getting a bit discouraged.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Sep-2004/3589-hands.jpg

Here are the hands side by side. His is puffy too but it still looks real. Oh and while we are looking at the hands notice how his flesh tones on the girl's neck are nice and even and golden. Mine are the colors I saw in my 8 x 10 print. (Big sigh here) Photography is a wonderful invention but it can't substitute for real life.

Jaysen, you have a great eye! I really welcome your suggestions-- keep 'em coming-- and I'm going to try and fix what I can. I have come to the point where I will be happy if they look human and I am almost ready to break out the glazing medium- which I hate to do. I can't glaze, i don't glaze and I'm not even sure how to do it. But I don't usually spend weeks on a painting either. So I am thinking of transparent golden ochre with a bit of alizarian crimson mixed in. Then going over all these skin tones to kind of merge them. If I put it on lightly maybe I can just wipe it off if it's not going too well.

I don't even want to show you what I did to the woman's hand- trying to match the values in a photograph. It's so dark it looks like it is disconnected from her arm. I am really going to have to glaze deeply on the forearm to make them match.

This has been really hard to finish- I am working on it in twenty minute segments and I come back and my paint is dry on the palette the next day and I have to re-mix it- for the tenth time.

Bruce-Truenuff- Thanks you so much for your encouragement. I am beyond my abilities in this one, I just realized this too late. I am going to be going back into the background and I will probably do what you suggested. I still have greens between the figures and sky that need blending. I think that's going to be my final step.

Carey and Dave- I'll be watching you guys in October but i don't think i'll be joining you because I'll probably (hopefully not) :crying: still be working on THIS ONE!!!!

Bruce-AFP- If I can do this- you can do that!!! I know ya can!

----------------------------------
Nora (stay tuned for even more disconcerting tones of flesh)

dcorc
09-29-2004, 11:02 PM
Nora - if you mix opaque paint - no medium, or just enough to make it creamy/buttery, you can just scrub it on top of the dried previous layer very thinly and evenly, so thinly that it is translucent - use it to adjust the values.

As to keeping the paint mixes on the palette from day to day - if you scrape up the paint into little piles, lay a sheet of clingfilm/saranwrap on top and press it down to exclude air, the paint will stay wet for several days.

I think we can safely assume that Bouguereau's beyond all our abilities :D - but that's precisely the reason for having a go - it stretches us, makes us try harder, look more closely (and admire WB's technical virtuosity!)

Dave

dollardays
09-29-2004, 11:20 PM
Nora - if you mix opaque paint - no medium, or just enough to make it creamy/buttery, you can just scrub it on top of the dried previous layer very thinly and evenly, so thinly that it is translucent - use it to adjust the values.

As to keeping the paint mixes on the palette from day to day - if you scrape up the paint into little piles, lay a sheet of clingfilm/saranwrap on top and press it down to exclude air, the paint will stay wet for several days.

I think we can safely assume that Bouguereau's beyond all our abilities - but that's precisely the reason for having a go - it stretches us, makes us try harder, look more closely (and admire WB's technical virtuosity!)

Dave

But is that easier than glazing, Dave? And if the paint is opaque how can it be translucent? If there is no white it would be similar to a stain and translucent in that sense? It makes more sense because that's the way I have been doing this so far but maybe I am tiring of it and looking for a quick fix. (Thanks for the common sense saran-wrap tip- I just don't think of the obvious solution I guess.)

dcorc
09-29-2004, 11:30 PM
N

But is that easier than glazing, Dave? And if the paint is opaque how can it be translucent? If there is no white it would be similar to a stain and translucent in that sense? It makes more sense because that's the way I have been doing this so far but maybe I am tiring of it and looking for a quick fix.

I'm suggesting using a mix which does include white - but which is translucent simply by having only a very small amount of paint applied, and spread as far as it can possibly be made to go - the merest smear of paint - rather than a brushload of medium with only a hint of pigment. :)

If it still doesn't make sense, I'll post something as a demo tomorrow :)

Dave

WV.Artistry
09-30-2004, 01:13 AM
I think we can safely assume that Bouguereau's beyond all our abilities . . .
Dave

Dave,

Have some faith buddy . . . we're just getting warmed up here ;)

A Few Pigments
09-30-2004, 04:45 AM
Nora to keep your paint from drying out overnight just put your palette in the freezer. Whenever Iím not painting my palette is always in the freezer. I put my cups of painting medium in the freezer covered with plastic wrap and they donít dry out either. Funny thing though, lately Iíve been wanting to paint a winter landscape.

Originally posted by dcorc
I think we can safely assume that Bouguereau's beyond all our abilities - but that's precisely the reason for having a go - it stretches us, makes us try harder, look more closely (and admire WB's technical virtuosity!)
Dave he was only a guy, he wasnít God. :angel:

Originally posted by dcorc
smear of paint
I thought it was ďnick a paintĒ? :) :D :wink2:

dcorc
09-30-2004, 04:52 AM
Dave,

Have some faith buddy . . . we're just getting warmed up here ;)


Dave he was only a guy, he wasnít God. :angel:

Excellent - the troops are raring to go! :cool:

:) Dave

Jaysen
09-30-2004, 12:59 PM
If you could do it perfectly on the first try, there would be no reason for the exercise. Take a look at my rendition of the Merry Drinker. I had a horrible time trying to match colors and the face ended up looking a bit alien.

But.... I learned sooo much just trying. And that's the whole point of trying to copy the masters. We aren't masters. But, we are trying to learn from them by figuring out their methods by mimicking as closely as we can. So, wherever you can, use the methods the artist used, even if this means that the finished product looks strange. Your trying to learn the methods more than trying to duplicate the product.

dollardays
09-30-2004, 01:11 PM
Moved the eye. Better, i think (Thank you, Jaysen :) ) Painted the shirt sleeve- still need to fix the baby's hand. Yes, I understand what you're saying now about the opaque paint, Dave- I tried a bit on the forehead to warm it up.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Sep-2004/3589-eyes.jpg

Base of shirt alizarian crimson and blue with white (I switched to permalba now- I think it's a bit brighter and I think I need it for the contrast in the whites). Areas in light- yellow ochre with lotsa white plus white and violet mixture.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Sep-2004/3589-jeunes-bohemiennes-copy-14.jpg

I think the end is in sight!!! Hooray! Thanks for all the help you guys are giving.

Paints are in freezer, Bruce, AND covered with saran wrap- ready to go when I start the baby's shirt.

Jaysen
09-30-2004, 07:15 PM
Very nice touch on the girl's sleeve and the face is turning out awesome.

Are you participating in the next MOM?

dollardays
09-30-2004, 10:50 PM
Very nice touch on the girl's sleeve and the face is turning out awesome.

Are you participating in the next MOM?

Thanks for your critiques Jaysen- they're very helpful I don't know if I'm up for another Bougereau. Depends on what else I have to get done next month. A lot of Christmas portraits start coming in toward the middle of October. If I'm not there- I'll be watching!!! Are you doing it?

Jaysen
09-30-2004, 11:07 PM
Probably. I need to paint some of these "unimportant" type paintings to build my skills for my proposed christmas gifts. I don't feel confident enough yet to finish the portraits I'm working on for my brother and sister. So, maybe another MOM will help me out.

Rosic
10-02-2004, 12:35 PM
Nora... I can't believe this thread has slipped by me... I tip my hat to you and all the others for the insights and talent shared within this thread. I can't believe it hasn't been rated yet :D ... I give it five stars! :D Keep up the great work.
Bernie

dollardays
10-04-2004, 11:51 AM
Hi Bernie! How's it going?

I am so tired of this painting. Every single time I fix something I see something else wrong. This shirt was really hard to paint. I know it's not right in places but I'm going to let it go.

I gave the woman's face another coat of paint to even the tones out. Then I fixed the child's hand.

1) Now I am going to do the same to the child. Plus I think the face is off a bit in some way I have yet to figure out.

2) I need to really darken the shadow side of the child's dress. I went over the light side again-made it darker and more contrasty and that made me realize the shadow side could use another coat too.
(I am thinking now if I had just started out with thick paint I wouldn't have to be doing this. Which I did on the arm and I am pretty happy with it.)

3) I have to integrate the background with the figures a bit more and lighten it in places plus cover up some green I see.

4) I think the child needs more hair.

5) I think the woman's upper lip is off.

Then I might be done! But at this rate I am not counting on it. I am ready to put it aside and maybe work on it at a later date after I get these things done.

Here is what I did over the weekend- another five hours of work and I think I have lost count on how many hours I have in this total- it might even be more than 30! Usually I'm able to guess pretty close but when weeks go by!!! :confused: This is the longest I have ever worked on a painting.

I am still using the same original palette I began with - actually it is even more limited because I knocked off the burnt sienna; I didn't need it- could mix nice reddish browns with the cad red and the yellow ochre and aliz crimson.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Oct-2004/3589-jeunes_bohemiennes-14.jpg

Re-painted face
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Oct-2004/3589-jeunes_bohemiennes-15.jpg
___________________________________
Nora

CoolArtiste
10-04-2004, 12:35 PM
Regarding Bouguereau being beyond our abilities, I think competing with Bouguereau is like competing with a great Olympic champion. He was born with huge talent in all the aspects of art: drawing ability, color, composition, etc. Then he got the best training in the world at the Ecole des Beaux-Arts at a time when the knowledge of painting had reached its ultimate height. Then he spent all day every day of his life painting and drawing. He's just maxed out in every way.

WV.Artistry
10-05-2004, 12:13 AM
I am so tired of this painting.



The copy has strengths and weakness. But it's comendable that you've done something most people omit when they attempt a Bouguereau rendition. Salute.

So wrap up the edits, move on, and go paint a Nora composition. PM me when you do :)




. . . I knocked off the burnt sienna; I didn't need it- could mix nice reddish browns with the cad red and the yellow ochre and aliz crimson.

Nora

Thanks for the mix.

Richard

WV.Artistry
10-05-2004, 01:11 AM
Regarding Bouguereau being beyond our abilities, I think competing with Bouguereau is like competing with a great Olympic champion. He was born with huge talent in all the aspects of art: drawing ability, color, composition, etc. Then he got the best training in the world at the Ecole des Beaux-Arts at a time when the knowledge of painting had reached its ultimate height. Then he spent all day every day of his life painting and drawing. He's just maxed out in every way.

You left out, that he practically painted the same themes the same ways, sometimes with the same models, over and over again for a lifetime, which in practice, develops a skill-set in anyone.

He was also into alchemy, knowing his materials, and had access and resources for some of the best supplies the world had to offer.

And he did, what he did, very well.

But to say or think Bouguereau is beyond your ability, to me, is self-defeating. It's not beyond my ability. It's conquering the ignorance of his approach and techniques that can be a little daunting.

I'm not discrediting the little man in any way by saying these things. It is in fact, a homage. He stood on the backs of giants. And that's why we study, to learn how to catch a ride.

Richard

Jaysen
10-05-2004, 08:33 AM
Also, he didn't have one HUGE advantage we have. He couldn't look at any masterpiece he wanted at the flick of a few keys and mouse clicks. If he wanted to study a master, he had to take a ship cruise, go on vacation and setup hotel accomidations, etc. All we have to do is browse the computer for a few minutes to get the almost complete works of every major artist that ever lived, as well as mountains of papers and articles written about their technique and styles.

Also, he didn't have a great forum like Wetcanvas to learn from.

So, you see we should be able to have a much steeper learning curve than those old guys.

Carey Griffel
10-05-2004, 11:15 AM
Nora, this is gorgeous and I believe that you've done a fabulous job with it, even if you stop right now. And I'll thank you for that mix, too...when I read your post, I happened to be sitting in my painting area, so I picked up my tubes and started experimenting. :) I think it did some good for my current painting. ;)

Richard, I like your thoughts on Bougereau and I agree with you!

~!Carey

dollardays
10-05-2004, 08:45 PM
Nora, this is gorgeous and I believe that you've done a fabulous job with it, even if you stop right now. And I'll thank you for that mix, too...when I read your post, I happened to be sitting in my painting area, so I picked up my tubes and started experimenting. I think it did some good for my current painting.

Richard, I like your thoughts on Bougereau and I agree with you!

Hi Carey- I'm so glad you found something of value from this thread :) -- and thank you!! I am calling the thread done, although I will probably go back and fix the baby's hair when I have time. I just won't post it here-W-I-Ps are fun to follow but I'm not very good at explaining what I do or don't do at certain points. It is mostly a process of comparing values and temperature and asking myself- is this red warmer or cooler- darker or lighter, etc. With a limited palette it's kind of hard to mess up- and when you do, it is obvious right away usually.

The copy has strengths and weakness. But it's comendable that you've done something most people omit when they attempt a Bouguereau rendition. Salute.

So wrap up the edits, move on, and go paint a Nora composition. PM me when you do

My thoughts, exactly, Richard. I am ready to move on. Thank You! (What did I do that most people omit?)

I agree with you and Jaysen about the resources available now compared to 100 years ago. We have the incredible advantage of being able to click and save almost any sample of art we want to and study it at our leisure. And our materials are ready made- we don't have to waste time MAKING them if we don't choose to. It is much easier to self-educate oneself than it was back then. I know I have learned everything I know - which isn't a great deal- just by experimenting and reading threads at this site and others.

So here are the final images. I painted over the baby's face and touched up the background where it met the figures and I am actually pretty happy with it now.. Thanks to everyone for all the encouragement (especially you-Jaysen--) PM me if you ever want a critique- I'll be glad to give my two cents worth.
__________________________
Nora
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Oct-2004/3589-jeunes-bohemiennes-copy-19.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Oct-2004/3589-jeunes-bohemiennes-copy-18.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Oct-2004/3589-jeunes-bohemiennes-copy-17.jpg

Rosic
10-06-2004, 11:43 AM
Nora... Congrats! You are really maturing as an oil painter! :wink2:
Bernie

Mario
11-01-2004, 11:07 PM
Yes, I agree you have really come a long way as a painter...I haven't been around WC, for a while, so I can see the giant progress... would you say that copying good paintings has been THE big help..? or perhaps, a personal teacher? or just a lot of painting?..I have to go back and read thru the posts but did you use a computer image as the model for this or was it some print or something? thanks for any reply. (and I don't even like Bougie.. but this is good)

dollardays
11-02-2004, 10:24 PM
Yes, I agree you have really come a long way as a painter...I haven't been around WC, for a while, so I can see the giant progress... would you say that copying good paintings has been THE big help..? or perhaps, a personal teacher? or just a lot of painting?..I have to go back and read thru the posts but did you use a computer image as the model for this or was it some print or something? thanks for any reply. (and I don't even like Bougie.. but this is good)

Hi Mario! Thanks for the comment about "giant" progress. I am "slowly" getting a better grip on the oils- I have all but abandoned the pastels though. I taped a hi-res glossy print to the wall and worked from that, plus I enlarged the faces on another 8 x 10 print. If my computer was in my studio I don't think I would get much painting done. I think copying a lot of different styles has helped me more than anything. Also, just experimenting and trying to figure out how certain effects were achieved and applying them to my own work. I also do lots of sketches from life.

guillot
11-03-2004, 06:21 PM
Excellent Work Dollardays!!

Thanks everyone for voting on the thread - it has earned it's spot in the Hall of Fame !!! Congrats Dollardays !!!

I will post a closed copy of this thread in the HOF. This one will remain open for further discussion.

Thanks,
Tina