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A Few Pigments
11-01-2004, 07:52 PM
Welcome to Masters of Pastels for November of 2004. This is a new project thread open to all members of the pastel forum. The goal of the thread is to give our members an opportunity to explore the history and the works of the artists who used pastels to create works of fine art.

A different artist will be presented on the first of each month. Links will be provided to their paintings and information about the artist. Each member can just read and look or participate more fully by choosing one or more paintings to copy. If you wish to copy one or more paintings from the current artist under discussion please post your progress and finished painting or paintings in the current thread. This will give every member a chance to learn more about working with pastels. And please critique the work of other members. This will further the learning process. Also there is no time limit, so take as long as you need to do the copies.

Because this is a new project Iíd like to hear any suggestions from the members about how this thread could be improved. Also, any suggestions for artistís the members would like to see included in the thread over the coming months.

Weíre starting the first thread with Rosalba Giovanna Carriera. A short biography is below and more information about her is available at the sites listed below. If any member does any research on Rosalba Giovanna Carriera, please share what you learn.

Rosalba Giovanna Carriera
Italian painter, Venetian school. Born in 1675 in Venezia. Died in 1757 in Venezia
Biography
Rosalba Carriera was a Venetian woman pastellist who had a great vogue in Venice, chiefly among British tourists, in Paris (1720-21), and Vienna (1730). She painted snuff boxes for the tourist trade with miniatures on ivory, a technique she seems to have pioneered as against the earlier use of card as a ground. She was painting miniatures by 1700, and her earliest pastels are of c. 1703. In 1705 she was made an 'accademico di merito' by the Accademia di San Luca in Rome, a title reserved for non-Roman artists. She achieved immense popularity, and made pastel portraits of notabilities from all over Europe, She also had great success with her near-pornographic demi-vierges, much earlier examples of the genre than those by Greuze. She went blind at the end of her life, which provoked a mental collapse. There are 157 of her pastels in Dresden, and others in the Royal Collection, London (Victoria and Albert Museum) and elsewhere.

The artist herself, 1715 Self Portrait Holding a Portrait of Her Sister
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Oct-2004/42249-1715_Self_Portrait_Holding_Portrait_500.jpg
1732 Cardinal Melchior de Polignac
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Oct-2004/42249-1732_Carriera_Cardinal_Melchior_de_Polignac_500.jpg

If you have any problems with the links below feel free to PM me and Iíll try to help.

WEBSITES WITH DATED PAINTINGS
Web Gallery of Art Paintings and a short Bio
Cardinal Melchior de Polignac, c. 1732, Pastel on paper, 57 x 46 cm.
Elderly Lady, c. 1740, Pastel on paper, 50 x 40 cm.
Flora, 1730s, Pastel on paper, 47 x 32,5 cm.
Young Lady of the Leblond Family, c. 1730, Pastel on paper, 34 x 27 cm.
Self-Portrait as Winter, 1731, Pastel on paper.
Young Cavalier, c. 1730, Pastel on paper, 55 x 42 cm.
http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/c/carriera/index.html

The Metropolitan Museum of Art, Portrait of a Man, ca. 1710, Ivory; Oval, 3 x 2 1/4 in.
http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/viewOne.asp?dep=11&viewMode=1&item=49%2E122%2E2

The Art Institute of Chicago Young Lady with a Parrot, Pastel, c. 1730; 59.8 x 50 cm. http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/prints/87pc_carriera.html

The Metropolitan Museum of Art, Gustavus Hamilton, Second Viscount Boyne, in Masquerade Costume, 1730Ė31Pastel on blue paper, laid on canvas; 22 1/4 x 16 7/8 in.
http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/viewOne.asp?dep=11&viewMode=1&item=2002%2E22

National Gallery of Canada, Countess Miari c. 1740-1745, pastel on blue laid paper, mounted on fabric,52 x 40 cm. http://cybermuse.gallery.ca/cybermuse/search/artwork_e.jsp?mkey=15361

IMAGE COLLECTIONS
CGFA, Portrait of Felicitŗ Sartori, 1730-40, pastel on canvas. http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/c/c-4.htm#carriera

Humanities Web, America 1730, Portrait of Felicitŗ Sartori 1740, Self-Portrait as Winter 1731, Young Lady of the Leblond Family 1730. http://www.humanitiesweb.org/perl/human.cgi?s=g&p=c&a=s&ID=311

France, Insecula.com Nymphe de la suite d'Apollon, 1721, Pastel sur papier bleu,Date http://www.insecula.com/contact/A007169.html

Detroit Institute of Art Images, Caterina Sagredo Barbarigo as ""Bernice"" ca.1741 Pastel on gray-blue paper, mounted onto thin canvas. http://www.diamondial.org/cgi-local/DiaImage.cgi?acc=56.264

National Museum Association of France Photographic Agency, 14 paintings. http://www.photo.rmn.fr/us/bi/search.html?rpp=21&artiste=Carriera%20Rosalba

Google has 178 imagas of paintings by Rosalba Carriera http://images.google.com/images?q=Rosalba+Carriera&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
Most of the digitized photos on line are small. If anyone finds larger images please let me know.

UN-DATED PAINTINGS
UK, The National Gallery, London, England. Portrait of a Man, Pastel on paper, 57.8 x 47 cm. http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/cgi-bin/WebObjects.dll/CollectionPublisher.woa/wa/work?workNumber=NG3126

UK, The Bowes Museum Barnard Castle, County Durham, DL12 8NP England. Portrait of a Lady, Pastel, Size: 59 x 44.5 cm http://www.bowesmuseum.org.uk/collections/paintingresults.php3?Artist=623&Collection=Paintings

Fine Arts Museums of San Francisco, Head of Diana, pastel on laid paper, 35.5 x 29.5 cm And Portrait of a Lady as Diana, pastel on laid paper, 33.5 x 27.4 cm. http://search.famsf.org:8080/search.shtml?keywords=carriera+rosalba These are beautyful paintings, but the museum has a strange way of displaying them. If anyone wants a large digitized pic of these paintings please email me and Iíll email you the one you want, or both if you want both of them.

Kathryn Wilson
11-01-2004, 08:08 PM
Yay!!!! Our Master of Pastels is off the ground and running. Bruce will be hosting this thread for us, with Paula Ford as a back-up, and the go-to person for questions to be answered.

This will be your thread to play with, so have fun developing this wonderful idea.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Paula Ford
11-01-2004, 08:31 PM
WOW :clap: :clap: :clap:

This is going to be fantastic Bruce!! What a great way to learn about our medium and get to know the Masters of the past!!

Thank you Bruce for starting this thread and all of your hard work!!

Paula

A Few Pigments
11-01-2004, 08:40 PM
Thank you Kat and Paula and Carly. I really appreciate this opportunity. As they say, a once in a lifetime opportunity doesnít come along very often. :) This is exciting! :) Thank you. :)

prestonsega
11-01-2004, 09:30 PM
Bruce and Paula....thanks for doing this!!! I love the idea of pastel art history!

Now...about Carriera. I noticed that most of her subjects were clothed at least partially in blue...even her self portrait ,Carriera as Winter. Was this because most are portraits of nobility and that was protocol dress of the day or was it her personal choice, OR...lol...was it because quality colors were not readily available giving limited palette? or did everybody just dress in the color blue...I mean over half my clothes are blue :)

Kathryn Wilson
11-01-2004, 09:34 PM
Okay, here's my first question. How'd she get pastels to stick to the ivory she used for her snuff boxes?

Preston, blue's my favorite too. But it may have been an easy pigment to find to make pastels?

CarlyHardy
11-01-2004, 10:48 PM
Thank you Bruce!! Excellent start for our Masters threads :clap:

I think it is so sad that she became blind near the end of her life....there is nothing I can think that would be worse for an artist than to lose one's sight
:(
carly

Deborah Secor
11-01-2004, 11:58 PM
Great idea for a thread, Bruce... :clap:

I did a search and found this tidbit amid some of the more scholarly thoughts. This was from a conference in Chicago on conserving colored media on paper:

Thea Burns, Associate Professor and Paper Conservator, Queen's University, returned to the podium for a wonderfully insightful look at the pastels of Rosalba Carriera, an 18th-century pastel portraitist. Carriera's working techniques for applying pastels mimicked the application of personal makeup in that era. Burns further noted that Carriera's portraits were not "snapshots" but carefully constructed theatrical facades (a parallel of today's "Glamour Shots"?). Burns reminded participants that in treating any work we need to put it in historical and cultural context and not presume that our era's attitudes and assumptions are appropriate.

Hmmm, Carriera doing the Glamour Shots of the 1700s! :D :D :D Oh and how many of you mimic the application of makeup in applying pastel to your portraits today? I'm wondering if this is just because they ladeled on powder in those days (not an unfair assumption) or if the author is simply demeaning her prowess as a painter... In either case, it seems less than complimentary. However, such is the price of being a successful woman, then or now, I suspect.

Oh but I found this bit of trivia, if you consider a six-figure number trivial:The portrait of Gustavus Hamilton by Rosalba Carriera sold for $621,750. Ah, sweet revenge. Let the critics say what they may, Rosalba's paintings apparently sell!

Deborah

Deborah Secor
11-02-2004, 12:20 AM
Here's another excerpt I found:

Pastels were brand new at the time, probably a French invention, and inasmuch as Venice was a trade port, it's not surprising they turned up there first in Italy. They've always been considered something of a women's art medium, at least until Degas embraced them in the late 1800s. Men did their painting in oil.

At first, pastels were reserved for the quick, colour sketches for which they were designed. But gradually, because of the speed with which they could be used, they became popular with those lacking the time and patience to sit for an oil portrait. And, being done on paper, not to mention mostly by women, they were no doubt cheaper than oils. (Hmmm..I guess things haven't changed much in 300 years!) But Carriera not only proved the equal to any male portrait painter in Venice, but also proved pastels the equal of oils in their richness, colour, and handling. She was accepted as one of the few female members of the Guild of St. Luke (doctors and artists) and later, the French Academy.

One of her best works, Self-portrait with a Portrait of her Sister, done in 1709 after she took up residence in Paris, was something of an advertisement. (There's a thought--paint yourself to show what you can do!) She worked with her sister, whom she herself had taught to paint, in managing quite a busy portrait workshop. The pastel painting (I still have trouble with that concept) depicts the rather plain face of the artist, no doubt made up to look her best, attired in satin and lace, blending tool in hand, showing off the portrait of her slightly more attractive sister.

So, does anyone want to comment on sexism in the 1700s regarding women's art and pastels? Do you think this medium got off to a bad start here???

Can you all tell how much l love to waste...uh...spend valuable time doing research on the Internet? :D

Deborah

jackiesimmonds
11-02-2004, 01:45 AM
WETCANVAS IS JUST THE BEST! what a great thread.

jackiesimmonds
11-02-2004, 01:55 AM
So, does anyone want to comment on sexism in the 1700s regarding women's art and pastels? Do you think this medium got off to a bad start here???

Can you all tell how much l love to waste...uh...spend valuable time doing research on the Internet? :D

Deborah


Deborah, this is great stuff. Where did you find it? I'd love the link, want to read more. I love this kind of research.
You are not wasting time AT ALL.
Sightly off topic but re the sexism thing must just mention a novel I'm currently reading Artemisia by Alexandra Lapierre. Fascinating stuff about one of Rome's great woman painters from the seventeenth century, Artemisia Gentileschi, who was raped by one of her father's friends who had been engaged to give her lessons in perspective. (!) Her father, also a famous painter Orazio Gentileschi, took the case to court, and the case made Artemisia and her father notorious.The book documents the testimony of the colourful inhabitants of the artist's quarter in Rome. It is a wonderful biography, full of interest and intrigue, and I am sure that the sexism thing will feature fully.


Jackie

E-J
11-02-2004, 04:48 AM
Great thread! Since we can all get quite vehement about the worth of our beloved pastels as a fine art medium, it certainly doesn't hurt to learn a little more about the past masters who have brought pastels to their current level of recognition!

The way I understand it, painters were working mostly with earth colours up until Carriera's time because other pigments (and especially blues, such as ultramarine blue) were so costly. Prussian blue became the first 'affordable' blue in the early 18th century, I guess around the same time Carriera was starting to work with pastels - maybe this is what she used? :confused:

Deborah, with that second excerpt you found, I sense the issues of sexism and denigration of pastels as a painting medium are emanating as much from the author of the article as from any 18th-century attitudes he might be examining :rolleyes:

A Few Pigments
11-02-2004, 05:10 AM
Hi E-J and thank you for joining the thread.

Hi Jackie and thank you for joining the thread.

Originally posted by Deborah
So, does anyone want to comment on sexism in the 1700s regarding women's art and pastels? Do you think this medium got off to a bad start here???I think Iíll take a pass on that for now. :)

Originally posted by Deborah
Can you all tell how much l love to waste...uh...spend valuable time doing research on the Internet?
Thatís the idea of this thread to encourage members to do research and try copying the works of famous artists.

Originally posted by dee_artist
Thea Burns, Associate Professor and Paper Conservator, Queen's University, returned to the podium for a wonderfully insightful look at the pastels of Rosalba Carriera, an 18th-century pastel portraitist. Carriera's working techniques for applying pastels mimicked the application of personal makeup in that era. Burns further noted that Carriera's portraits were not "snapshots" but carefully constructed theatrical facades (a parallel of today's "Glamour Shots"?). Burns reminded participants that in treating any work we need to put it in historical and cultural context and not presume that our era's attitudes and assumptions are appropriate.I guess this just proves that thereís always more than one way to do things.

Originally posted by carly
I think it is so sad that she became blind near the end of her life....there is nothing I can think that would be worse for an artist than to lose one's sight.
Iíve read over the years that artists and writers worry about loosing their sight, composers and musicians worry about loosing their hearing and singers worry about loosing their voices. It seems to be the fear that does it. My approach is ďDonít worry, be happyĒ.

Originally posted by Kat
Okay, here's my first question. How'd she get pastels to stick to the ivory she used for her snuff boxes?
Kat, I donít know yet. I havenít found anything on the web yet about how she worked so if you or anyone else finds information in a book please let us know.

Originally posted by Preston
Now...about Carriera. I noticed that most of her subjects were clothed at least partially in blue...even her self portrait ,Carriera as Winter. Was this because most are portraits of nobility and that was protocol dress of the day or was it her personal choice, OR...lol...was it because quality colors were not readily available giving limited palette? or did everybody just dress in the color blue...I mean over half my clothes are blue
Hi Preston. The simple answer is yes. Blue became the color of royalty because of lapis lazuli. In da Vinciís time it became more expensive than gold and continued to be until it was replaced by a man made pigment. During the years Carriera was painting she could have used azurite, indigo, Prussian blue, smalt and Ultramarine. All of those were available in her day. I have more research to do to find out which blues were used in pastels during her life time.

A Few Pigments
11-02-2004, 05:28 AM
Iíve decided to start with this pastel painting by Carriera. The web site doesnít have the date of the painting so, if any one finds out the date please let me know. Iíll start the drawing tomorrow.
Rosalba Giovanna Carriera, Head of Diana, Pastel, 13.98x11.61 inches (35.5x29.5cm).
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Nov-2004/42249-Carriera_Head_of_Diana_Pastel_500.jpg

ExpressiveAngie
11-02-2004, 06:14 AM
What a wonderful thread...I have read every word :clap: and will continue to do so!

A Few Pigments
11-02-2004, 07:47 AM
Hi Angie,
Welcome to the thread. Please feel free to add anything you want to and copy a painting by Carriera if you think youíd enjoy that. Iím starting my copy today. Iíve discovered a lot can be learned by copying old paintings. :)

Mikki Petersen
11-02-2004, 09:44 AM
This is quite valuable to someone like me who has never studied art history. I'm more of a doer than a thinker, perhaps. It is interesting to read of a woman achieving such success in her own lifetime in the arts and in a completely new medium at that. Rather humbling.

I rather like the mystical quality that artists of the past applied to portrait painting. Glamour shots maybe, ego feeding surely, but also a great talent to be able to "mist" over the blemishes and still capture a likeness. There are some components of reality that need not be replicated...

Deborah Secor
11-02-2004, 11:08 AM
Deborah, this is great stuff. Where did you find it? I'd love the link, want to read more. I love this kind of research.
You are not wasting time AT ALL.

Well, 'waste' is often determined by prior commitments! Ergo, I AM wasting time but justify it as learning... :rolleyes:

Here are the links:
Rosalba Carriera Biography--http://www.humanitiesweb.org/perl/human.cgi?s=g&p=c&a=b&ID=311
(Yes, this man is showing his great bias here, E-J, no doubt about it! These biases don't originate in the 18th Century, necessarily, but then again I do find it interesting that from day one pastels have been considered to be for women and to be a poor second cousin to oils--until Degas--as you will see in the brief article.)

Conference Review--The Broad Spectrum: The Art and Science of Conserving Colored Media on Paper--
http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/waac/wn/wn22/wn22-1/wn22-108.html
This is generally interesting to read but extremely little of it is about Carriera...However, in doing my search I discovered that Ms. Burns made the rounds of scholarly venues with what I suspect was her thesis. What we call 'making hay while the sun shines...'

Bruce, that is a great portrait to copy! I love the angles and the softness of it. I'm really looking forward to seeing what you do with it.

Deborah

prestonsega
11-02-2004, 11:12 AM
I would love to hear our beloved Sister Wendy give commentary on Carriera... Sister Wendy seems to exhibit an obsession with breasts as does Carriera ( melon shaped breast and breast shaped melon is an ongoing Sis W joke between myself and another Sis W fan....) Bruce.... in your selected painting the subject's left breast is modeled so as to appear almost "plopped" on the lower edge of the picture plane ......Going to be intersting to see your repro come to life.

A Few Pigments
11-02-2004, 07:50 PM
Hi Preston, I have to admit I wasnít really thinking about her breasts. What attracted me to this painting is her face and her eyes. And I greatly admire Diana, Princess of Wales, she was named after the subject of this painting, Diana the huntress. Iím running late getting my copy started, but Iíd like to encourage everyone whoís interested to try doing a copy of one of Rosalba Giovanna Carrieraís paintings. Thereís a lot to chose from and the opportunity to learn from one of the greats beckons. :)

Hi Deborah, all of this research youíre doing is wonderful. Thank you for your contributions to the thread this month. Keep up the good work. :)

Hi Mikki, Iím glad this thread is of value to you. I believe by studying the history of art we sometimes discover more about ourselves as we learn about the old masters. For the most part they struggled with the same questions we have today as artists. It can put things in perspective and help us understand what to do with this urge we have to create. :)

Goobiemom
11-02-2004, 11:55 PM
Well...I'm impressed! I had no idea pastels had been around for so long. I had never given it a thought, to tell the truth. I wonder how Rosalba stumbled upon pastels? I absolutely love history and art is such a testimony to it. She was obviously popular since she had a busy portrait shop.
Bruce, I love the picture you chose to do. I can't wait to see your post. And about those boo.....breasts, if they were any higher she could use them as earmuffs! Ah, artistic license! Rosalba's portraits were certainly of a romantic quality, which was indicative of the period, but the color quality and richness she imparted were, and still are, absolutely stunning! This is a great thread! Thanks!

Judy

A Few Pigments
11-03-2004, 07:48 AM
Hi Judy, and welcome. Feel free to contribute in any way and try your hand at copying one of Carrieraís paintings. Itís a great way to learn more about pastels and the history behind them. :)

A Few Pigments
11-03-2004, 07:54 AM
This is my start of Head of Diana. The original painting is in post number 14 As you can see I have a lot left to do. http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2868684&postcount=14

Iíll try to do two different paintings this month and Iím looking forward to other members having a go at some of Carrieraís paintings. :)

Head of Diana, Pastel, 14x11.5 inches, on Canson Mi-Teintes paper with a half inch drafting tape border.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2004/42249-Carriera_Head_of_Diana_500_1.jpg

prestonsega
11-03-2004, 11:05 AM
hey Bruce...I was gazing into the portrait of Diana whilst sipping my first cup of coffee. I noticed the teardrop pearl earring. This started me thinking of physics, gravity and how RC used this bobble to relate the tilt of the head, neck and body. A more vertical pearl would indicate a foreward tilt....more horizontal; a backward tilt. I believe she used this purposefully in leiu of more modeling of the neck, thereby keeping the softness of the skin but still communicating important information.

Then again it might just be what she had to work with and it was a happy accident :D .( doubtful)

A Few Pigments
11-03-2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Preston
I noticed the teardrop pearl earring. This started me thinking of physics, gravity and how RC used this bobble to relate the tilt of the head, neck and body. A more vertical pearl would indicate a foreward tilt....more horizontal; a backward tilt.

And there by hangs a taleÖ :)

A Few Pigments
11-04-2004, 01:05 PM
This was going a bit pear shaped so I decided to add a large grid. I divided the pic and paper into thirds. I havenít had time to learn a sophisticated way of working with pastels yet (does it showÖlol) and I donít have too many colors to work with. Carrieraís method of working involved a lot of blending and thatís a good thing since I like to blend.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Nov-2004/42249-Carriera_Head_of_Diana_500_2.jpg


Kat I was thinking about the question you had regarding how Carriera could have made her pastels stay on ivory. I discovered when I did the pastel copy of a watercolor painting by Anders Zorn that acrylic gesso makes a good surface for pastels. In Carrieraís time she could have used the same oil based gesso used on canvas. Or she could have used any one of a number of animal skin glues. The problem with all animal skin glues centers around their inherent brittleness. So if I had to guess, I would think she used a layer of calf skin glue to seal the ivory, followed by a layer of oil based gesso. Unsanded gesso has quite a bit of tooth, and so would work well with pastels. Over time though, even if she gave the oil based gesso a year to dry before applying the pastels, some of the oil might migrate into the pastels. So, Iím not sure she could have used an oil based gesso.

One other idea is that she might have mixed chalk into an animal skin glue and applied the pastels to that. Iíll continue researching this and let you know what I learn.

Or may be, as is often the case in life, the answer is more simple that it appears to be. Perhaps she simply sanded the ivory and applied the pastels directly to it.

I'm interested to know what the othere members think about this. Is anyone doing any research on how to paint with pastels on ivory?

A Few Pigments
11-05-2004, 05:38 AM
I just found this about the history of pastels. Itís from The Connecticut Pastel Society website. http://ctpastelsociety.com/home.html

Hereís the link to the page if you want to read it there. http://ctpastelsociety.com/aboutpastels.html
The Connecticut Pastel Society
"Pastel does not at all refer to pale colors, as the word is commonly used in cosmetic and fashion terminology. The name Pastel comes from the French word "pastiche" because the pure, powdered pigment is ground into a paste, with a small amount of gum binder, and then rolled into sticks. The infinite variety of colors in the Pastel palette range from soft and subtle to bold and brilliant."
Pastel Society of America

Pastel is not colored chalk, which is a limestone substance. Pastel is pure pigment-the same pigment used in making all fine art paints. It is the most permanent of all media when applied to a permanent ground and properly framed. There is no oil to cause darkening or cracking, nor other substance or medium to cause fading or blistering. Pastels from the 16th Century exist today, as fresh and alive as the day they were painted!

Historically, Pastel can be traced back to the 16th century. Its invention is attributed to the German painter Johaim Thiele.
A Venetian woman artist, Rosalba Carriera was the first to make consistent use of Pastel. Chardin did portraits with an open stroke, while LaTour preferred the blended finish. Thereafter a plethora of famous artists... Watteau, Copley, Delacroix, Millet, Manet, Renoir, Toulouse-Latrec, Vuillard, Bonnard, Glackens, Whistler, Hassam, William Merritt Chase, Mary Cassett, just to list the more familiar names, used Pastel as finished work rather than preliminary sketches.

Edgar Degas was the most prolific user of Pastel, and its champion. His protege, Mary Cassatt, introduced the impressionist and Pastel to her friends in Philadelphia and Washington, and thus to the United States.
In the spring of 1983, Sotheby Parke Bernet sold at auction two Degas Pastels for more than $ 3,000,000 each! Both Pastels were painted about 1880.
Today, Pastel paintings have the stature of oil and watercolor as a major fine art medium. Many of our most renowned living artists have distinguished themselves in Pastel, and enriched the art world with this beautiful medium.

An artwork is created by stroking the sticks of dry pigment across an abrasive ground, embedding the color in the "tooth" of the paper, sandboard or canvas. If the ground is completely covered with Pastel, the work is considered a Pastel painting; leaving much of the ground exposed produces a Pastel sketch.
Techniques vary with individual artists. Pastel can be blended or used with visible strokes. Many artists favor the medium because it allows a spontaneous approach. There is no drying time, and no allowances to be made for a change in color due to drying.

Care of Pastel Paintings
As with any fine work of art or fine furniture, it is advised not to place a Pastel painting in direct sunlight. When under glass, the heat of the sun can create humidity, which could cause moisture damage to develop. Whenever transported or not in a hanging position, a Pastel painting should always be face up.

Khadres
11-05-2004, 07:27 AM
Hi Preston. The simple answer is yes. Blue became the color of royalty because of lapis lazuli. In da Vinciís time it became more expensive than gold...

Have you priced a good quality tube of genuine cobalt blue oil paint lately??? STILL ain't cheap! Same with real vermillion! I've always thought it would be the ultimate luxury to paint with real lapis lazuli blue! Earth colors, on the other hand, were a natural for cheap colors...cheap and stable, too, and easily obtained.

As to "application of make-up" painting technique...well, this was the tail end of the era of what they called "maquellage" (I'm sure that's mispelled)...which actually WAS like painting the face...the stuff was applied in such a way that the wearer dared not emote too much lest the whole application CRACK and bits fall off! They say this is one reason that portraits of the time showed folks with such stiff, unsmiling expressions...I wonder if we're echoing those old days with the current "Botox" craze? Add to that the fact that a lot of the facial pigments were heavily loaded with lead white and it makes me really happy to live in the Maybelline age.

Sexism these days can't hold a candle to the "good old days"... We still deal with the remnants of it, but think of the Mary Cassatts, etc. as late as the impressionist period.

This is a great thread...puts the biases concerning the medium into an historical perspective.

E-J
11-05-2004, 08:07 AM
Intriguing idea, Preston - I might not even have noticed the unexpected angle of the earring if you hadn't pointed it out! I do love the idea of the goddess heading out to hunt dressed in her finest pearl earrings and a flimsy, diaphanous dress with a hint of nipple showing :eek: :D

Reading that Rosalba Carriera was "an originator of the Rococo style", I googled for further info and thought others not familiar with the term might find it interesting.

"ROCOCO ART (dates ca. 1717-1775)
A style in interior design, decorative arts, painting, architecture, and sculpture. Originated in France in the early 18th century but was soon adopted throughout Europe (except Great Britain). Aristocratic patronage. Great age of nobility, aristocrats very powerful. Reaction against rigidity and formality of 17th-century court life. Lack of interest in most serious moral, philosophical, political and social issues. No real suffering or tragedy. Mostly avoidance of religious subject matter.

Characteristics of Rococo Art:
- Curving elegant graceful shapes
- Pastel colors
- Quick and delicate brushwork, very painterly
- Delicate
- Graceful
- Elegant
- Curving lines
- Lighthearted
- Playfully erotic
- Feminine
- Decorative
- New subjects, aristocratic leisure and scenes of pleasure."

Mikki Petersen
11-05-2004, 12:51 PM
Wonderful information here! I really was encouraged reading the CT Pastel Society's description of the medium. This would be a useful commentary to distribute at showings of pastel paintings.

Let's rate this thread so it stays around.

prestonsega
11-05-2004, 05:58 PM
Intriguing idea, Preston - I might not even have noticed the unexpected angle of the earring if you hadn't pointed it out! I do love the idea of the goddess heading out to hunt dressed in her finest pearl earrings and a flimsy, diaphanous dress with a hint of nipple showing :eek: :D

Reading that Rosalba Carriera was "an originator of the Rococo style", I googled for further info and thought others not familiar with the term might find it interesting.

"ROCOCO ART (dates ca. 1717-1775)
A style in interior design, decorative arts, painting, architecture, and sculpture. Originated in France in the early 18th century but was soon adopted throughout Europe (except Great Britain). Aristocratic patronage. Great age of nobility, aristocrats very powerful. Reaction against rigidity and formality of 17th-century court life. Lack of interest in most serious moral, philosophical, political and social issues. No real suffering or tragedy. Mostly avoidance of religious subject matter.

Characteristics of Rococo Art:
- Curving elegant graceful shapes
- Pastel colors
- Quick and delicate brushwork, very painterly
- Delicate
- Graceful
- Elegant
- Curving lines
- Lighthearted
- Playfully erotic
- Feminine
- Decorative
- New subjects, aristocratic leisure and scenes of pleasure."

One example of this style is Louis XIV's Versaille. The murals with lots of cherubs in the sky is what I immediatly think of when I hear of Rococo..

A Few Pigments
11-06-2004, 03:26 PM
I found this about the artists in the Rococo period http://www.artcyclopedia.com/history/rococo.html This site has links to all of the artists listed below.

Artists by Movement:
Rococo Art
Europe, 1715 to 1774

The Rococo style succeeded Baroque Art in Europe. It was centered in France, and is generally associated with the reign of King Louis XV (1715-1774). It is a light, elaborate and decorative style of art.

Quintessentially Rococo artists include Watteau, Fragonard, FranÁois Boucher, and Tiepolo.

Rococo was eventually replaced by Neoclassicism, which was the popular style of the American and French revolutions.

Chronological Listing of Rococo Era Artists

Gregorio de Ferrari 1644-1726 Italian Painter
Nicolas de Largilliere 1656-1746 French Painter
Giacomo Serpotta 1656-1732 Italian Sculptor
Francesco Trevisani 1656-1746 Italian Painter
Sebastiano Ricci 1659-1734 Italian Painter
Michele Rocca 1666-1751 Italian Painter
Claude-Augustin Cayot 1667-1772 French Sculptor
Alessandro Magnasco 1667-1749 Italian Painter
Rosalba Carriera 1675-1757 Italian Painter
Giovanni Antonio Pellegrini 1675-1741 Italian Painter
Marcellus Laroon the Younger 1679-1772 English Painter
Giacomo Amiconi 1682-1752 Italian Painter
Giovanni Batista Piazetta 1683-1754 Italian Painter
Jean-Antoine Watteau 1684-1721 French Painter
Jean-Marc Nattier 1685-1766 French Painter
Giovanni Battista Pittoni 1687-1767 Italian Painter
Francois Le Moyne 1688-1737 French Painter
Francesco Maria Schiaffino 1688-1763 Italian Sculptor
Georg Raphael Donner 1693-1749 Austrian Sculptor
Jacques Dubois 1693-1763 French Furniture Artist
Corrado Giaquinto 1694-1765 Italian Painter
Jean-Baptiste Joseph Pater 1695-1736 French Painter
Jacob de Wit 1695-1754 Dutch Painter
Giovanni Marchiori 1696-1778 Italian Sculptor
Giovanni Battista Tiepolo 1696-1770 Italian Painter
Canaletto 1697-1768 Italian Painter
Nicola Salvi 1697-1751 Italian Sculptor
Jean-Baptiste-Simeon Chardin 1699-1779 French Painter
Gian Antonio Guardi 1699-1761 Italian Painter
Giovan Maria Morlaiter 1699-1781 Italian Sculptor
Giuseppe Nogari 1699-1766 Italian Painter
Charles Joseph Natoire 1700-1777 French Painter
Luigi Vanvitelli 1700-1773 Italian Architect
Thomas Hudson 1701-1779 English Painter
Pietro Longhi 1702-1785 Italian Painter
Louis-Francois Roubiliac 1702-1762 French Sculptor
Francesco Zuccarelli 1702-1788 Italian Painter
Francois Boucher 1703-1770 French Painter
Maurice Quentin de La Tour 1704-1788 French Painter
Pompeo Batoni 1708-1787 Italian Painter
Francesco Fontebasso 1709-1769 Italian Painter
Francesco Guardi 1712-1793 Italian Painter
Allan Ramsay 1713-1784 Scottish Painter
Jean-Baptiste Pigalle 1714-1785 French Sculptor
Charles-Francois Hutin 1715-1776 French Sculptor
Jean-Baptiste Perronneau 1715-1783 French Painter
Etienne-Maurice Falconet 1716-1791 French Sculptor
Bernardo Bellotto 1721-1780 Italian Painter
Charles Flipart 1721-1797 French Painter
Sir Joshua Reynolds 1723-1792 English Painter
Jean-Baptiste Greuze 1725-1805 French Painter
Peder Als 1726-1776 Danish Painter
Francoise Duparc 1726-1778 Spanish/French Painter
Thomas Gainsborough 1727-1788 English Painter
Giovanni Domenico Tiepolo 1727-1804 Italian Painter
John Hesselius 1728-1778 American Painter
Jean Baptiste Pillement 1728-1808 French Painter
Ivan Petrovich Argunov 1729-1802 Russian Painter
Paul Sandby 1730-1809 English Painter
Pierre Julien 1731-1804 French Sculptor
Jean-Honore Fragonard 1732-1806 French Painter
Hubert Robert 1733-1808 French Painter
Louis-Marin Bonnet 1736-1793 French Engraver
Niclas Lafrensen 1737-1807 French Painter
Clodion 1738-1814 French Sculptor
Marie Anne Gerard Fragonard 1745-1823 French Painter
Jean-Baptiste Marie Huet 1745-1811 French Painter
Francisco de Goya 1746-1828 Spanish Painter/Printmaker
Luis Paret y Alcazar 1746-1799 Spanish Painter

A Few Pigments
11-06-2004, 03:30 PM
I think Iíll have to buy some pastel pencils. Itís very difficult to maintain sharp lines and blend with my fingers. This is so much different than paint in tubes. I can see it will take a while to get the hang of this and get it finished.

Iíll be busy the rest of this weekend so Iíll post again Monday. Have a good weekend everyone.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Nov-2004/42249-Carriera_Head_of_Diana_500_3.jpg

E-J
11-07-2004, 12:05 PM
I think Iíll have to buy some pastel pencils. Itís very difficult to maintain sharp lines and blend with my fingers. This is so much different than paint in tubes. I can see it will take a while to get the hang of this and get it finished.

Bruce, have you tried blending with something a little less clumsy than fingers? I'm not suggesting your fingers are particularly clumsy :D It's just that I often resort to finger-blending and you're right, it's not easy when you come up against a line you want to keep sharp. If you can't find Colour Shapers where you are, you could always make your own by cutting an edge into a plastic eraser, and use that at the delicate edges. Or you could simply restate the line you accidentally blended, using a light touch. Don't forget that you can also use an acrylic brush to brush off yukky bits!

A Few Pigments
11-07-2004, 03:49 PM
Hi E-J. Thank you for the advice. Iíve read about colour shapers and Iíll have to get some soon, but I have to buy a lot more pastels too. I was reading about the palette people had 3,000 years ago. The modern equivalent would be burnt sienna, raw sienna, burnt umber, raw umber and ivory black. I think if I add white and red to that it would be a very good palette for me since I like a limited palette of warm hues.

At another site I found this
Leonardo da Vinci used black and red chalk with yellow pastel highlights to complete a portrait drawing of "Isabelle d'Este, Duchess of Mantua" in 1499. According to historian GeneviŤve Monnier, da Vinci learned what he referred to as "the dry coloring method" from French artist Jean Perrťal.

In France, pastel painting grew to enjoy great popularity through the proliferation of the so-called three-crayon portrait drawn in black, red and white chalk on toned paper. By the 17th century highly refined finished portraits were being executed by a number of artists using a broad range of colors which rivaled the palettes of many oil painters.

Whatever I do Iíll just use a limited palette. Itís my preferred way of working. Iíve just never had the desire to try to reproduce every colour in nature.

I was thinking art is a lot like computers. It seems like Iím always buying something elseÖand so it goes

A Few Pigments
11-09-2004, 05:55 PM
I found this today while searching for more info about the history of pastel artists. It has one of the most complete listings of pastel artists Iíve found so far on the web.
Smithsonian American Art Museum
http://americanart.si.edu/search/search_artworks1.cfm?StartRow=1&LastName=&FirstName=&Title=&Keyword=pastel&Accession=&dosearch=Go&db=all&format=long

prestonsega
11-09-2004, 07:11 PM
Bruce...interesting link...particularly in that is shows the work of academically trained artists as well as that of naive artists. The muse knows no social boundaries!

A Few Pigments
11-10-2004, 11:56 AM
One would hope the muse knows no boundaries of any kind, but I wonder if this thread might have reached its boundaries. Perhaps it was just too ambitious a project. May be once a week would be better than once a month. We have so much to learn from artists in the past. Iíd like to hear ideas from anyone who wantís this thread to continue as to how it could be improved to better meet the needs and interests of the members of the pastel forum.

A Few Pigments
11-10-2004, 05:04 PM
Another hour spent on Diana. Iím leaving the face till last cus I canít draw worth a darn. I just hope it comes out looking more like Diana than Mickey Mantle.
All C&C welcome.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Nov-2004/42249-Carriera_Head_of_Diana_500_4.jpg

SweetBabyJ
11-11-2004, 01:53 PM
I find the discussion interesting, Bruce- but I'm lazy and don't feel like doing a lot of research for stuff right now, so am just as glad you're doing it. Exactly what was your motivation for researching past artists? Are you a student? Sometimes, while I know the past can teach us much, I feel there's a limitation to the interest- that if we're not careful, we'll only see what WAS done, not what is being done, and what can be done.

I do know that while pastels are as old as cave paintings, their height of popularity ("great Master's"-wise) was during the Impressionist Movement, when they were deemed an acceptable substitute for achieving an oil effect without all the work of dragging an oil set-up to the lilypond. Their immediacy was a tremendous boon.

E-J
11-11-2004, 02:11 PM
There's a lot of excellent stuff in this thread, Bruce, and I think the information would be harder to take in if this were turned into a weekly thing. What seems like a general silence now is probably down to the fact that most of us aren't making our own copy of Carriera's painting - but I am certainly staying tuned for yours, and I'm sure others are too. In the past year and a half I have painted copies of Degas, Sargent, Cťzanne and Monet and I enjoyed doing them and feel I learnt something, but I don't plan to paint any more copies - at least, until I've done a bit more exploration of my own subject matter and style. I suspect interest in the thread will depend largely on where each of us feels we are in our learning curve, in practical terms as well as with regard to the history of pastels.

I'm enjoying your progress! :)

A Few Pigments
11-11-2004, 03:11 PM
Hi Emma-Jane,
Yes I agree with everything you said. It would be harder to take in if a new thread started every week. Thereís so much to learn, and I know Iíll be lucky if I learn one billionth of all the things Iíd like to learn. and itís not just about the medium Iíd like to learn a lot more about the artists themselves. What their lives were like, what were their goals and why, and so many other questions.


Hi Julie,
When I become interested in something I want to learn everything I can about it. Thatís my motivation. What I try to do is learn from the past as well as the present, and then to use everything Iíve learned to help me with everything I do in the future. And as far as limitations go I believe the only limitations are the ones we put on ourselves, so, donít do that.

A Few Pigments
11-11-2004, 03:15 PM
This is a list of the more famous artists in history who used pastels. Iíve listed the artists chronologically according to their date of birth. The list is not as complete as Iíd like so Iíll continue working on it.

1675-1757, Rosalba Carriera, was the first to make consistent use of Pastel
Artcyclopedia: http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/carriera_rosalba.html
Questia http://www.questia.com/SM.qst

1699-1779, Jean Baptiste Simeon Chardin, French Rococo Era Painter,
Artcyclopedia: http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/chardin_jean-baptiste-simeon.html
Questia http://www.questia.com/SM.qst

1738-1815, John Singleton Copley, American Realist Painter,
Artcyclopedia http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/copley_john_singleton.html
Questia http://www.questia.com/SM.qst

1747 to 1803, Johann Friedrich Alexander Thiele II, German,
Artcyclopedia http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/thiele_ii_johann_friedrich_alexander.html

1798-1863, EugŤne Delacroix, French Romantic Painter
Artcyclopedia http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/delacroix_eugene.html

1814-1875, Jean-FranÁois Millet French Painter,
Artcyclopedia http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/millet_jean-francois.html

10 June 1819 1877, Jean Desire Gustave Courbet, French Painter,
Artcyclopedia http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/courbet_gustave.html
WetCanvas http://www.wetcanvas.com/Museum/Artists/c/Gustave_Courbet/
Questia http://www.questia.com/Index.jsp?CRID=gustave_courbet&OFFID=se1&KEY=gustave_courbet

1832-1883, Edouard Manet, French Painter,
Artcyclopedia http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/manet_edouard.html

1834-1903, James McNeill Whistler, American Painter and Printmaker, Also known as: James Abbott McNeill Whistler
Artcyclopedia http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/whistler_james_mcneill.html

1834-1917, Edgar Degas, French Realist/Impressionist Painter and Sculptor, Also known as: Hilaire-Germain-Edgar Degas was the most prolific user of pastels, and its champion
Artcyclopedia http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/degas_edgar.html

1836-1904, Henri Fantin-Latour, French Realist Painter
Artcyclopedia http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/fantin-latour_henri.html

1840 to 1916, Odilon Redon, French Painter
Artcyclopedia http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/redon_odilon.html
WetCanvas http://www.wetcanvas.com/Museum/Artists/r/Odilon_Redon/index.html

1841-1919, Pierre-Auguste Renoir, French Painter
Artcyclopedia http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/renoir_pierre-auguste.html

b. May 22, 1844, Allegheny City, Pa., US--d. June 14, 1926, Mary Cassatt introduced the Impressionists and pastels to her friends in Philadelphia.
Artcyclopedia: http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/cassatt_mary.html
AT ARC 81 images http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/art.asp?aid=631

1849-1916, William Merritt Chase, American Painter
Artcyclopedia http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/chase_william_merritt.html
questia http://www.questia.com/SM.qst

1859-1935, Childe Hassam, American Impressionist Painter, Also known as: Frederick Childe Hassam
Artcyclopedia http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/hassam_childe.html

1864-1901, Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec French, Painter and Printmaker,
Artcyclopedia http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/toulouse-lautrec_henri_de.html

1867-1947, Pierre Bonnard, French Painter
Artcyclopedia http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/bonnard_pierre.html

Paula Ford
11-11-2004, 04:09 PM
Oh Bruce!! This thread has so much information in it that it absolutely boggles my mind!!

For artists like me, who know nothing except painting with pastels is the most wonderful thing in the world, this thread is very overwhelming!! There are probably LOTS of lurkers who are reading along with the progress of this thread, learning a great deal, but not posting their thoughts. So please don't be discouraged!

Where is the update on the painting you are doing? :D

Paula

A Few Pigments
11-11-2004, 06:33 PM
Hi Paula,
I posted the last update on 11/10/04 post #39 http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2897162&postcount=39

The other posts of the painting are:
11/06/04 post #33 http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2883337&postcount=33
11/04/04 post #26 http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2876565&postcount=26
11/03/04 post #23 http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2871837&postcount=23

prestonsega
11-11-2004, 07:31 PM
Bruce....I see this thread as a germinating seed that will need some tender loving care at first...but I imagine it will take a life on of its own as its roots grow..... Your doing a great job..and I, like Julie...am grateful for your research and bringing this info to the group.

Don't worry..It won't hit the 2nd page I'm betting! So folks will eventually post more...I find most artists love sharing their opinions! :wink2:

Terry Wynn
11-12-2004, 11:03 AM
Hi, Bruce,

Wonderful thread, and yes, we are reading, and you got my attention. I want to try a new challenge so I found a Carriera painting (thumbnail attached) and will give it a go. I learn sooooo much when trying to achieve a likeness to another's work.

Anyway, thanks the hard work of all bringing us this wonderful information. :clap: :clap: :clap:

A Few Pigments
11-12-2004, 12:09 PM
Hi tjhi, thank you for your interest and Iím really glad youíre going to have a go at one of the paintings. :) Itís been kind of lonely here being the only one.


Preston you make it sound like a job for Chauncey Gardiner. I really like that movie. :)
Memorable Quotes from Being There http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078841/quotes
Chance the Gardener: As long as the roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well in the garden.
President "Bobby": In the garden.
Chance the Gardener: Yes. In the garden, growth has it seasons. First comes spring and summer, but then we have fall and winter. And then we get spring and summer again.

prestonsega
11-12-2004, 12:13 PM
Being There is one of my all time favorite classic movies..(they don't show it on tv very often, but it is sooooo fabulous!)..lots of wisdom in Peter Sellers words. :)

A Few Pigments
11-16-2004, 01:46 PM
This is my progress so far. Iíve been blending my little heart out on this one. Iím leaving the face till last. Iím not very good at anatomy and physiognomy yet. I know I'm taking quite a while to do this one but I'm learning as i go. Can anyone see any mistakes Iíve made. C&C welcome.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Nov-2004/42249-Carriera_Head_of_Diana_500_5.jpg
I picked out another painting to do. Itís a self portrait of Carriera, but in a somewhat looser rendering. I couldnít find any title, date or size on the web for this one. I hope I can finish these two by the end of this month.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Nov-2004/42249-io_e_larte_i_500.jpg

A Few Pigments
11-23-2004, 11:40 PM
This is the update on The Head of Diana. The face is giving me a lot of problems, but Iíll keep working on it till I get it right.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Nov-2004/42249-Carriera_Head_of_Diana_500_6.jpg
This is the second painting Iím doing this month. It looks like it wonít need as much blending as The Head of Diana and Iím grateful for that. Self-portrait of Carriera, 13 5/16 x 17 5/16 inches, on the smooth side of dark brown Canson Mi-Teintes paper. The original painting is in post number 50.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Nov-2004/42249-Carriera_Self_Portrait_500_1.jpg
Iím sure Iíll be working on both of these well into December.

SweetBabyJ
11-24-2004, 01:00 AM
May I ask why you are using white in a piece in which there is little to no white at all?

Pastels come in many, many hues, yes, but more, they come in many, many values. It seems to me you keep trying to make pastels behave like oil paints- to mix them with white to give yourself lighter values. That rarely, rarely works. What usually happens is you end up with a chalky appearing swathe of muted colour, with little to no form or volume.

In pastels, it is best to work dark to light- lay your darks in first and then mids and then light-mids- with your lightest colours last. By doing so, you keep your darks clean and clear, and your highlights then have something to BE lights against.

In this piece, I don't see white- I see ochres and other browns, with some muted dark purples there in the deeper shadows. I think, to get the effects you wish- a copy of this artist's self-portrait- you are going to have to use the same technique she used- which is working dark to light and without white in that manner.

A Few Pigments
11-24-2004, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by SweetBabyJ
May I ask why you are using white in a piece in which there is little to no white at all?
Iím working with two sets of pastels. Each set is made by a different company, and each set contains twelve sticks. The colors are not identical in each set however. I also have three sticks from Rembrandt. So, that gives me a total of twenty three colors including black and white.

So, Iím forced to use black and white to change the value of the few colors I do have. Iíve included a scan of each of the different colors I have to work with at this time. When I can afford to buy more I will, but for now this is what I have to work with.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Nov-2004/42249-Pastels_500.jpg

SweetBabyJ
11-24-2004, 10:29 AM
Now see? With that extremely limited palette, I'd absolutely avoid the use of white and black so I didn't dull the few colours I had. Instead, I'd use those earth tones at the bottom- those ochres and browns- warming them with in some areas to come forward (using a light glaze of yellow-orange or pink) and cooling in others to help recede (the blue or darkest green). Without a dark purple, I'd probably swap those shadow shapes for a grayed red, layering red/dkgreen/red. Where I saw the lightest light, I'd use that very light ochre or orange pink thingie there- about 4th from the top. I'd scumble the background dark with the darkest brown and ochre over a very light glazing of black.

I limit my palette very often- so I understand the conundrums inherent; with the primaries you have there, you should be able to "make" any colour, and you are heavy in the earth tones, comparatively; good luck.

A Few Pigments
12-01-2004, 08:12 PM
Hi Julie,

Thank you for the advice. Your way of using color would keep the colors clean and vibrant. I think Iíll finish the one I started and then do one the way you suggested. Doing it both ways will help me work out something Iím working on with my own paintings.

I have a question for you. Do colors always have to be kept unsullied by the chalky or pasty effect of using white to lighten a color? I like the look of muted colors, even muddy colors.

SweetBabyJ
12-01-2004, 10:14 PM
It's all according tho the effect you want, Bruce; in these pieces, you indicated you were attempting to copy the original works, so you would naturally wish to use colour in the same manner. If you were copying, say, Handell, muted or muddy colour would be necessary. So, it's all according to style- what's YOUR style?

A Few Pigments
12-02-2004, 01:52 PM
All I can tell you about my style is that itís still forming. I want it to be gritty and honest with integrity, and no pretty pictures and few pure colors. I want it to reflect and reveal the grittiness, honesty and integrity of everyday life.

A Few Pigments
01-22-2005, 07:33 PM
This one is finished. Just one more to go for this thread.

Self-portrait of Carriera, 13 5/16 x 17 5/16 inches, on the smooth side of dark brown Canson Mi-Teintes paper. The original painting is in post number 50.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jan-2005/42249-Carriera_Self_Portrait_500_2.jpg

O'Aieghlans
01-25-2005, 07:09 AM
This is actually pretty good considering your limited palette; it also seems in keeping with the original in that the original also seems more of a sketchy-style painting as opposed to a fully developed tonal portrait. Are you new to pastel? From what you posted earlier, it seems like you may be. In any case, thanks for introducing us to Carriera, I didn't know of her.

Needless to say, perhaps -- but it's tempting to take a great master of pastel and make a copy -- but impossible to be just as good as the original artist! I remember I tried to paint a Monet once, what a disaster that was. Great artists are one of a kind. ;)

I would make one observation, and that is that I believe most of the portraitists of the 18th century used a blue-grey toned laid paper. They never used white, to my knowledge. This would make a big difference in the ability to reproduce faithfully one of these works, IMHO. In addition, I believe the pastel artists of this period used fixative extensively.

A Few Pigments
01-25-2005, 10:15 PM
Thank you Dan. I am new to pastels and Iím finding them much different to work with than oil, acrylic and watercolor paint. But thatís why I want to use them. To learn a different way of doing things.

A Few Pigments
06-17-2005, 12:03 AM
I think this one is finally finished. Itís not perfect, but I think it looks very much like something very similar.

C&C welcome.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Jun-2005/42249-42249-Carriera_Head_of_Diana_500_7.jpg

Paula Ford
06-17-2005, 01:04 PM
This is terrific Bruce!! I especially like her eyes...they are piercing!! She looks so alive!

Paula

A Few Pigments
06-17-2005, 06:48 PM
Thank you very much Paula. :) This is the second portrait Iíve tried to do in pastels. They seem to be much more difficult in pastels than in oil. I think Iíll try one of Degasís landscapes next. Iíve been wondering of late though what the Mona Lisa would look like in pastels. I think Iíll have a go at that as my next portrait.

Paula Ford
06-17-2005, 10:16 PM
Bruce,

IMHO, I think you should try the Mona Lisa. You have done such a fantastic job on this portrait, you should go for it!

The more I look at this portrait, it just amazes me how you got her skin so perfect and soft and her eyebrows are wonderful also...and the highlights in her hair. I honestly love this portrait!

Paula

A Few Pigments
06-18-2005, 02:26 AM
Hi Paula, thank you very much for saying such wonderful things. Iím in shock. Before I posted this I was thinking it could use more work. I guess we never see our own work the way other people do. I think the only reason the skin looks the way it does is because I spent tons of time blending. Iím looking forward now to doing something that wonít need as much blending.