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Artguy29
10-23-2004, 09:44 PM
When one of my paintings doesn't come out how I wanted it to, I tend to become very frustrated. I admit that I am very hard on myself when it comes to painting. Does this ever happen to you?

Dave

jbitzel
10-23-2004, 10:12 PM
I think everybody does, unless you are perfect. I get most frustrated when I am in the middle stages and then things seem to work out as more layers develop. I just hate thinking "man I hope I don't have to redo this later". At this point I take a break and look at it every 5 min until my eyes become less critical. :wave: good post :wave: James

kblack
10-23-2004, 10:16 PM
Happens all the time... I am way too impatient with myself.
The first couple of stages of a painting are always hard to get by , But keep working on it soon you'll do one and you'll say - wow. I can't believe I did that.

Kblack

Complicated Artist
10-23-2004, 10:22 PM
Generally I don't get frustrated, but that by no means implies I'm perfect or anywhere near it.

The last painting I just finished I only got frustrated with one thing...the background needed to be repainted after I thought I had finished it, but it was no big deal and that was the end of it. *knock on wood*

The biggest frustration I have is not having enough canvases... :(

Complicated Artist

ShellyF
10-23-2004, 10:58 PM
Yes, sometimes I do get very frustrated, mostly when I am working on commissions, because in my mind they have to be perfect (well, I know they will never be perfect :p , but you get my drift). It's very madning, when what I am seeing in my head just doesn't come out of the brush the same way! I find when I am painting just for myself though, it doesn't matter so much if it doesn't turn out, because I know that I can just toss it in the closet and no one has to see it.

Lady Carol
10-23-2004, 10:59 PM
Sometimes. Some paintings work out very easily but others do not. I think that comes down to knowing how to achieve an effect or not.

theIsland
10-24-2004, 01:34 AM
Naw. It's just paint. I've learned not to sweat the small stuff in life, and how paint looks on paper is not worth negative emotions. I give myself permission to fail. My paintings are full of mistakes, and that's okay. I used to be a perfectionist (gave that up, too), but even in those days, I was very patient, never frustrated.

Noma

joa
10-24-2004, 06:04 AM
I get a little frustrated at least once in EVERY painting. Usually when I have to paint over something and then try to figure out what to do about it. It's no big deal, they always work out--not perfect, but OK.

Jo

Mikey
10-24-2004, 08:35 AM
I like what theIsland says. Sometime success becomes important to me, so I begin to try hard and loose my freedom with the brush. Other times I relax and just paint, then do my best. But whatever, it never failure. I find some of the most frustrating times are part of the learning exercise. They pay off later.

Mikey

Gaka
10-24-2004, 08:39 AM
Frustration....Nope....A whizbang quickie painting for me takes 5/10hours, my average painting is 80/100hours and an epic is 200plus hours, therefore frustration is an non existant emotion for me when it comes to any of my artistic or graphic works. When I paint I compare it too like climbing a mountain, where you have good periods, easy parts, hard parts, parts where you even question what you are doing, there are bad periods where you stumble and fall etc...but whilstever I am putting one foot after the other and progressing forwards, then every action is a positive action to reach the summit and my goal....For me to become frustrated I would loose focus and cease to be making any advance towards the summit and my objective....Phew :D

But then again as it say's in my quote "I only paint to please myself..." so I dont have the added pressure of commissions or deadlines.

Artguy29....None of my paintings come out the way that I want them too and I dont think that there would be many if any other artist that were 100% happy with there work...I have not heard of one or know of one...anyone know of any as I would like to know about a true perfectionist?

ShellyF....I agree that there is a whole lot of difference between painting to please a client and painting to please yourself...That's why I dont do commissions.

Gaka

romell
10-24-2004, 09:41 AM
No frustration, because I paint for fun. If my painting didn't turn out the way I want it, usually I didn't go back to correct it. For me, all paintings are lessons for the next. It is a part of learning process. See my signature. :p

Enchanted
10-24-2004, 10:18 AM
When one of my paintings doesn't come out how I wanted it to, I tend to become very frustrated. I admit that I am very hard on myself when it comes to painting. Does this ever happen to you?

Dave
I'm not sure about "frustrated." Maybe it's a matter of semantics, but I can say that I am often "disappointed" in the final result. But to say "frustrated" means I'm not willing to accept my disappointment as a learning experience, and move on to the next one. A failed painting, to me, is something to ponder and learn from so that I don't make the same mistakes next time.

Now, on the other hand, I have usually been frustrated when I try to paint abstractly. You'd think that an abstract would come easily to anyone, especially anyone who has been painting as long as I have. But I enjoy representational painting, therefore seem to have a mind set that "frustrates" my attempts at painting an acceptable abstract.

Donald_Smith
10-24-2004, 10:32 AM
For me, I find that I forget everything I know about painting, when I'm painting. Then after I'm through with a painting, I look at it and see all the things I did wrong. I have to paint the same thing 2 or more times before I get it like I want. The first painting gives me a starting point. After I critique it, I do a second painting and try to correct the things I didn't like in the first painting.

D

bjcpaints
10-24-2004, 03:01 PM
Currently, yes, getting very frustrated - But, it is because I am in a transition and "learning mode". I tend to learn things the hard way and I know that about myself so I must be putting it on myself. Oh I think that goes in a different group? Just kidding, we all get frustrated with our efforts sometimes because we can see it so clearly in our head and putting on canvas is a different thing altogether . Well, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it - right?
Barbara

rookieoftheyear
10-24-2004, 09:26 PM
I always get angry. I throw the biggest fits. I always have in my head what i want to do but it never comes out that way. I haven't painted that much but I haven't been able to paint without throwing a temper tantrum. Hopefully I'll get over it one day!

busy91
10-25-2004, 02:05 PM
Frustrated is not even the word. I get so beyond that, I want to scream and cry.

Charlie's Mum
10-25-2004, 03:28 PM
Frequently - my paintings seldom go exactly to plan, and it can happen at any point!
I usually manage to work through it but if I'm really not happy, I put it to one side for a few days/weeks and just keep peeking at it to see if 'the flow' can be re-generated!!!!!! :D

LisaArt
10-26-2004, 04:31 AM
Frustrated ?. I get beyond that, sometimes I want to scream. LOL . I have so many ideas floating in my head, then I get them down on a sketch, then to the canvas, then I am so excited that I emerge myself totally into the painting and forget about everything. Then after ahwile I sit back and see all the things I did wrong or going wrong. It is actually the first stages of a painting that drive me nuts, the washes, I somehow dont see it coming together and my paintings seldom go exactly to plan. :confused: Then thatīs when I loose it!! :evil: And it is usually at the end of day painting, so, I pour myself a glass of wine, put the painting aside for the day. Sometimes my husband is afraid to come after work if he knows I have been painting all day....LOL . The next day or so I usually manage to see things a little differently. If I am really not happy, I put it to one side for weeks and just keep peeking at it to see if I want to continue or I gesso monster it..... :evil: ;)

Rodney
10-26-2004, 09:52 AM
Frustrated.....Sometime. :o And it dose embarrass me, can you embarrass yourself if no one is around?? I have been trying to not get in a hurry with my paintings that has lead me to the greatest frustrations, not letting paint dry when needed and mudding things up, not paying closer attention to compisition and see mistakes after I thought I was done. I am now stepping back and looking more and painting less. Have found there is a HUGE differance between painting and just putting paint on the canvas. good post :clap: nice to see so many honist answers. bfnR

quinacridonemagenta
10-26-2004, 10:18 AM
i'll concur with those who describe frustration as being an understatement.

i'm just plain ol' depressed. i can't eat. i'm a nervous wreck. i doubt myself. i want to cut off my ear (just kidding.....but it does get pretty intense inside). currently i'm trying to work myself out of the stage of pure self-disgust-sit-in-my-chair-and-knit-cus-i-can't-paint stage, to go-back-and-try to decipher what needs to be done to this painting to respark my passion and confidence.

being an artist is hell sometimes. i don't know why i take it so personally against myself when others can just flow with the paint. i am WAYYYYYYY too hard on myself.

(the current painting is a mess, but this morning i finally came in and have attempted to do something that could bring it cohesiveness so maybe i will be able to progress with it instead of abandoning art to a life of knitting in my pj's all day).

yeah, apparently i must be pychotic or something.

Rosa Weitzel
10-31-2004, 11:18 AM
I got so hard on my self that I quit painting for twenty years, what a waste. I now know that painting is pure pleasure for me and if Im not doing something right I come here look it up, find a book, go on line and sooner or later I will find the right answer to make it work. I love color pencil, watercolor and now I did my first post to this forum. Im going to try water based oils and see how I like them. Life is to short to get upset over painting if its not working put it away for a few weeks go reread the books you have and then go back, I allways figure its not the destination but the journey in art work.
Rosa

Donald_Smith
10-31-2004, 07:09 PM
The Artist's Way!

There was a project on WC where you read and follow the advice in "The Artist's Way." I read part of the book. It is excellent, and has lots of ideas on how to release yourself, and allow you to paint with out a lot of frustration. For those of you that suffer from frustration, and we all do a little, it might be helpful to get a copy of this book and read it and try some of her suggestions.

I would be interested in hearing how or if this suggestion helps you.

Hope it helps,
Don

damar
11-01-2004, 02:37 AM
My expectations normally exceed my abilities. :)

Bertoni
11-02-2004, 08:02 AM
I guess it can't help but happen on occasion! Usually at midpoint a painting doesn't seem like it's going anywhere :confused: ...but as I keep at it, the thing starts to take shape and I say "Aha" and bring it on to a finish that I'm pleased with! :D :clap:
But there are those times :eek: !!!!

paloma
11-04-2004, 09:46 AM
Damar I do so agree with you in that my expectations exceed my abilities. For me it goes back to childhood really. I lived with my Aunts Uncles Grandparents - they were all talented in the arts. So, naturaly I was influenced greatly. in order to be tolerated I worked hard at painting but was never overly pleased with my efforts; in spite of the praise they bestowed on me!!
I am less frustrated now as I paint for myself & if the painting goes badly it is trashed - usually my next effort will be that much better oddly enough.

It is all about being too hard on oneself - so lighten up & tell yourself it is only paint & you can always do better next time!!
Cheers Alexandra :cat:

Mark Newton
11-05-2004, 05:27 AM
I used to become frustrated quite a it, but these days I take it in my stride and dont really get too frustrated, its mild and part of the job. I dont paint in such a way that I am looking to produce something exactly, so from that pov I'm lucky. I prefer to paint using an open method where the brush strokes, finger slides and knife give the lead, I then follow along and complete the work....much less frustrating. I believe for me, frustration is a negative thing, it doesnt do me any good as a painter, so I work in such a way I dont get frustrated very much.

joa
11-06-2004, 04:22 PM
I only really get frustrated when I have worked and reworked a portion of the painting and still don't have it right; at that point, I begin to fear that I won't be able to ever get it right, and then what will I do? I have always been able to work through this fear, and get the work done, so when I come to this place I tell myself "I have always finished, I have never quit on a painting, so I will be able to do it this time, too. Just paint over those eyes, or that leg, and start again!" It works for me.

Jo

Michael-Ann
12-03-2004, 12:45 AM
I always get angry. I throw the biggest fits. I always have in my head what i want to do but it never comes out that way. I haven't painted that much but I haven't been able to paint without throwing a temper tantrum. Hopefully I'll get over it one day!

Hi Rookie! :wave:
I get downright depressed with my paintings...Many of them sit piled against the walls (as you well know) glaring at me through unfinished eyes. From "In your mind" to "On the canvas" seems to be a quantam leap. Many emotive masterpieces dance about in my brain but never find their way out through my stubborn brush. Time and patience and practice and diligence, I think, is the key...learning to see what it is we want to paint, defined in the ways that we admire most about others techniques - and of course mixed with a touch of the self.

Nice to see you posting :) Happy Birthday to youuuuuuuuuuu!

LarrySeiler
12-03-2004, 01:26 PM
when I was younger, I thought frustration was a testiment to ineptness and yes it was difficult to feel such.

Then I went into a new chapter of my life where I learned to welcome frustration which I began to see as inevitable in the event something significant might promise growth.

Next, I moved to a chapter where lack of frustration meant the threat of little to no growth, and that was in and of itself frustrating.

Finally...the idea of frustration as an aggravation itself is gone. It has been replaced simply as recognized challenges...yet, years of overcoming challenges reverts to a sense of confidence, becoming a thing you look forward to. Logically, something you look forward to can't really be said to be an aggravation, thus if I am frustrated at all these many years later...it is because other obligations get in the way from moments I'd hope to be making my art.

Larry

SilverLady
12-03-2004, 06:44 PM
Gaka, thanks for posting this.

(Frustration....Nope....A whizbang quickie painting for me takes 5/10hours, my average painting is 80/100hours and an epic is 200plus hours, therefore frustration is an non existant emotion for me when it comes to any of my artistic or graphic works. When I paint I compare it too like climbing a mountain, where you have good periods, easy parts, hard parts, parts where you even question what you are doing, there are bad periods where you stumble and fall etc...but whilstever I am putting one foot after the other and progressing forwards, then every action is a positive action to reach the summit and my goal....For me to become frustrated I would loose focus and cease to be making any advance towards the summit and my objective....Phew)

Yes, I used to get frustrated. When someone tells me to make it darker, and someone else tells me to make the same thing lighter. Since I am not formally trained, I think I need to listen to everyone. So? A few paintings I have had to scrap. I messed up too bad.
Now, I still want to have your comments. But, I don't feel as though I have to do every detail. I realize that art is in the eye of the beholder.
I am still learning. It is fun. And I just want to have fun.
I have sandpaper right along with all my art supplies. I use it when needed to save my canvas and restart a painting.
I love painting, it makes my day. It makes me feel good. I don't let the idea of perfection get to me anymore.
I have learned so much here. What a wonderful place to see art and learn how everyone else does it. I do what works best for me.
Thanks to all who post here.
This is my second home. Well, after Wal Mart and Home Depot.

Silverlady

Rodney
12-03-2004, 11:33 PM
Hi silver lady.
I don't want to get off the subject but just wanted to say that your message is very inspiring to me and explains a lot of how a painter should control there mood, emotion or what ever you want to call it. really like your paintings on your webpage :clap: great stuff.
bfnR :wave:

Geniebug
12-04-2004, 10:26 AM
Hi Silverlady,
Great outlook and I need to borrow it from you, sorta take your advice, :wink2: I think I will go slap some paint on with abandon and be happy instead of critical.

You better watch... you may run into me at Wamart or Home Depot... I seem to spend a lot of time there. Hmm, maybe that's why I can't get anything done!

Loved looking at your pictures of Louisiana.
Pat

chammi kaiser
12-05-2004, 10:42 AM
[FONT=Comic Sans MS]I get really frustrated with commissions as often the painting has to suit the decor!!! I have just had a commssion to paint the Cologne Cathedral (in watercolour) . The painting is large and it had to be in golden colours!!! The actual Cathedral is a dark and gloomy Mount Everest of churches. I found the whole thing really difficult. I was VERY frustrated after finishing the painting and finding that it just did not work. Today I completed my second attempt and it is a lot better but still not ME. I am longing to just paint for myself and who the hell cares then if it is not perfect. I have a month's holiday away from students and I am going to have some fun with acrylics. Yippeee. Greetings from Hamburg , Germany. :wave:

SilverLady
12-05-2004, 09:59 PM
Wonderful response. I am having a ball reading all this wonderful information.

Paint for you. Try it. I think it works better. If you like it keep it if you don't sand it down, paint it with Gesso and begin all over again.
Just have fun. That should be what it is all about, unless you are a professional, and do this for a living. Then you do have to answer to someone.

Silverlady

PAKI
12-06-2004, 01:37 AM
When one of my paintings doesn't come out how I wanted it to, I tend to become very frustrated. I admit that I am very hard on myself when it comes to painting. Does this ever happen to you?

Dave
I think every artist must go through some frustration.
I find every work is a new challenge. I do not allow myself to settle for something that merely gets by or with something that worked somewhere else. I find I am always pushing myself. It is the only way I can learn. Frustration to me is part of the learning process. A necessary element.

King Rundzap
12-06-2004, 05:04 PM
When one of my paintings doesn't come out how I wanted it to, I tend to become very frustrated. I admit that I am very hard on myself when it comes to painting. Does this ever happen to you?

Dave

I never get frustrated with my work--I always end up loving it, but I also have very few preconceptions about it. I think limiting one's preconceptions is key.

I never know exactly what an artwork is going to turn out like prior to finishing it, and I do not want to know--that's half of the fun. I like the participating in the process, letting things develop as they may, and allowing unintended events to suggest new directions.

I'm firmly in the Bob Ross mind of--"we don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents", although in my case, that attitude developed more from a combination of Zen (which I first encountered from a martial arts teacher), Brian Eno (who said, "The only error is your failure to adjust your preconceptions to reality" and who is big on making "mistakes" major features of artworks), and a bit of the Hindu outlook of "being a conduit for an artistic flow", which I first encountered by reading an interview with Robert Fripp. Zen, Eno and Fripp, along with many others, have all been big influences on my approach to art.

I also do not believe that there are things that are objectively good or bad when it comes to art, I think "rules" in art are nonsense, and there is a huge variety of things that I like, taste-wise. So it would be difficult for me to do something that I didn't end up liking. I'm that rare person who someone was wondering about earlier in the thread who is 100% happy with my output. I have yet to stick an artwork in the closet, throw an artwork out (with one exception where I had a weird technical problem and the paint wouldn't stick to the support), etc. I don't even bother with preparatory work like sketches--they seem pointless to me, because to me, any sketch is just as good as a finished work, since I don't think one is objectively (or even subjectively) better--they're just different.

[Added Later:] Just wanted to add that I do sometimes execute photoshop "mock-ups", and when I thought about it more, I have done a couple "sketches" that were more like notes for a rough idea of layout and relationship. Once I start painting, I progressively forget about those preparations and let it develop as it may. Often finished works are unrecognizable compared to something like a photoshop mock-up. That's a good thing to me. Not something to become frustrated about.

debimari
12-06-2004, 05:09 PM
My frustration lies in the lack of education in the arts, and the fact that I can see in my head... what my hands are not able to produce... ( yet? !... :confused: ) ..

I see this Wonderful painting... and then I wake up to reality as I attack the canvas... ( whether I sneak up on it or attack front on... it is still an attack somedays!!.. I don't necessarily want or need to have paintings look like the Real thing... I am not a realist, in any sense of the word..!. LOL! ... This is true in many areas.. ( I am an honest ditsy blonde at heart... and this is not a bad thing!) .. :clap: Actually it helps me be a bit less frustrated when the painting is just not happening for me!...
My biggest frustration comes from my goal/dream of a large studio filled with real people all enjoying the process.. not happening in this area too soon... If I were a rich (wo)man... da da da dee da dee da da dum.... !!! All day long I'd da de da de dum.... in my studioOOOOOO!!!

Marty C
12-06-2004, 09:26 PM
I'm copying something I said in the Water Class and it applies here:
"Itís important to remember to have fun when you are painting. Fear only comes into it if you are doing a $100,000 portrait commission for a mafia boss with an unforgiving nature and a reputation for setting unreachable standards. Frustration on the other hand is perfectly acceptable. In fact, if you are not frustrated at times you are not pushing yourself hard enough and are staying only with what you know. Frustration comes with trying new things and not getting it right first time, or the second or even many times. But patience and perseverance will get you there in the end, and very satisfying it is too!"
Frustration comes with progress. It's not easy, but the worthwhile things never are. Wanting to get it right, and not getting it right, happen all the time. It's disappointing, and frustrating when it happens over and over. Then, one day, it goes just right...isn't that a great feeling!

King Rundzap
12-07-2004, 09:48 AM
"Itís important to remember to have fun when you are painting. Fear only comes into it if you are doing a $100,000 portrait commission for a mafia boss with an unforgiving nature and a reputation for setting unreachable standards."


That part is funny :)


Frustration on the other hand is perfectly acceptable. In fact, if you are not frustrated at times you are not pushing yourself hard enough and are staying only with what you know. Frustration comes with trying new things and not getting it right first time, or the second or even many times.


There are problems with that, however. Not being frustrated with your work, as I'm not frustrated with my work, does not imply that one is not "pushing" oneself or that one is only staying with what one knows. I am always finding unusual ways to extend my abilities and extend what I do, whether in terms of subject matter, draftsmanship, color usage, paint application techniques, media, etc.

The reason that a lack of frustration does not imply a lack of "extending" is given in your next sentence: "Frustration comes with trying new things and not getting it right the first time . . ." I do not agree that there is a right or wrong when it comes to art, and I don't believe in having strong preconceptions of what my art "should be like". None of that disallows extension. In my view, it opens extension up even more--as I can explore anything that I can possibly do/think of, and there isn't anything wrong with any of it! The primary challenge becomes trying to think more creatively about what I can do, and pushing myself to do unusual things that I might not normally think of.

It reminds me of a comment that people often make to me regarding art education. They think that if there isn't a "right" and "wrong" in art, then it would negate the whole point of art education! That seems ridiculous to me--as if that's all that is done in learning about art and techniques. Education can be an exploration of possibilities, a continual broadening of faculties, abilities, technical aptitudes, etc. It need not be approached as a grounding in right versus wrong, but rather providing students with an increasing amount of tools to help them do whatever it is they want to do, whatever they can dream of.


Frustration comes with progress.


I don't look at it as progress, but change. The new stuff isn't objectively better than the old stuff (although various people might like it better), it's just different. I don't think my new work is better than my old work (or worse), but it certainly is different--I continue to change, my interests continue to change, and I continue to explore new approaches to making art.

I also do not look at societal change as progress (or regress for that matter)--it's just change to me.


It's not easy, but the worthwhile things never are. Wanting to get it right, and not getting it right, happen all the time.


But not for everyone, as not everyone agrees that there is right and wrong in art, at least.

debimari
12-07-2004, 10:06 AM
I understood the "getting it right ..." as being Right for the artist!... not society right or wrong...

I have the feeling we are all feeling similar emotions when painting ... but may attack painting two different ways... where in lies the verbal differences...

When I paint with no specific goal in mind and allow the painting to change, tell me what is going to happen.... then I have a lower frustration level... ( or none!) ... the time spent is just an exercise in discovery.....
When I have a specific painting in my head... and I want the painting OUT because I know it is a FAB idea.... and it doesn't happen the way I visualize it ... for me it is because I don't have the technical background to achieve the look I am after... or it is because I am not ready to accomplish the feat I have given myself!... ( haven't yet painted the 120 / or 3000 paintings it takes to be accomplished!... :o) ! ...

I do understand painting without frustration... it is a wonderful feeling ... letting loose... and allowing the paint to dictate it's destiny....
However I also know frustration ... as I have set certain goals to work toward.... and it is difficult to not have the paint work with me ... (still has a mind of it's own!) .. and When I am working toward the goal... I tell my hubby " I am at work hon.... don't even think I am going to stop now !... "
But if I am "playing with the paint ... enjoying the process completely... "I don't mind interruptions at all... !..

Marty C
12-07-2004, 10:17 AM
I agree there is no right or wrong in art. Perhaps I should have used a different word, I was in the middle of a big post at the time and hurrying along. By right I mean trying to achieve the effect, the colour, composition or whatever you were after. Most people have some concept of what they are aiming for - it's not right or wrong, it's "I want this particular shade of blue" or "I want this work to look very similar to my reference" etc. Many people, if they don't achieve their goals, can experience a sense of frustration when they can't get just that shade of blue. It's not rightness or wrongness, it's a personal reaction.
It's great that you can accept what ever your art reveals to you, I don't think most people are that flexible. And I think frustration is a normal reaction to being thwarted in the pursuit of their particular ideal.

metalhead
12-07-2004, 10:22 AM
When I have a specific painting in my head... and I want the painting OUT because I know it is a FAB idea.... and it doesn't happen the way I visualize it ... for me it is because I don't have the technical background to achieve the look I am after. That's the kind of frustration I most commonly experience. I am probably in for a bit of that sort of frustration with my latest attempt, alhough right now, I'm experiencing a bit of the opposite sort of frustrattion, because I'm still in the drawing stage, setting up to begin painting. The drawing is coming out so good I can hardly believe it, :) so I keep stopping, just to look at it for awhile, and that's slowing down my progress. I worry I'll be too scared to paint it. Well not really, but sort of. I suppose if I must be frustrated, it's not a bad way to be frustrated. :) The real frustration will be when I find my painting skill isn't up to making it come out how I want it to.

debimari
12-07-2004, 10:48 AM
Metalhead... I hear you !... it seems that when I am planning,drawing... and the plan is working... I am completely exhilarated ... then it hits me that I may not paint / and I may even RUIN !!! the idea completely~..

I am slowly learning that if I mess up ... I can gesso and begin anew... but it is hard to do when your gut is telling you the painting idea was going to be GREAT! ... and disappointing when you can't achieve it ...

Part of me( thank heaven) says ...." The process is what it is ALL about .... not the end result ... The Process ! The Process!.... Life!!! ... "

King Rundzap
12-07-2004, 11:16 AM
When I have a specific painting in my head... and I want the painting OUT because I know it is a FAB idea.... and it doesn't happen the way I visualize it ... for me it is because I don't have the technical background to achieve the look I am after... or it is because I am not ready to accomplish the feat I have given myself!... ( haven't yet painted the 120 / or 3000 paintings it takes to be accomplished!... :o) ! ...


I don't ever approach painting with those kinds of preconceptions, though (which is relevant to Marty's later comment, too--I don't _want_ to shoot for "a particular shade of blue", "a particular resemblance to this source material", etc. -- I want to see what kind of blue I come up with, how the work develops with respect to the source material, etc.). For me, I don't think those kinds of preconceptions are a good idea, in general (and that goes for any art--I'm also a musician/composer and writer), and for me, I always enjoy the unintentional things that occur as much as the intentional things. The unintentional things constantly change the direction of the work, and are developed with as much intensity as the intentional things.

But keep in mind that I'm not saying that we're all the same, or should be the same. I think people are different, and there's nothing wrong with that. Some people are certainly going to experience frustration and approach painting differently--there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just talking about my approach, my experiences, and explaining why at least one person is different than what some other people were saying.


I do understand painting without frustration... it is a wonderful feeling ... letting loose... and allowing the paint to dictate it's destiny....
However I also know frustration ... as I have set certain goals to work toward.... and it is difficult to not have the paint work with me ... (still has a mind of it's own!) .. and When I am working toward the goal... I tell my hubby " I am at work hon.... don't even think I am going to stop now !... "
But if I am "playing with the paint ... enjoying the process completely... "I don't mind interruptions at all... !..

Well, it's not that I don't have _any_ goals with a work whatsoever. I have certain intentions and plans when beginning, but I don't stick to them come hell or high water. I know unintentional things are going to occur (I think it's impossible to not have unintentional things occur in a painting), and also I know that I can always interpret the work differently at any stage, and "see things" in it that I hadn't initially planned. The unintentional things that occur, and the reinterpretations, to me, are just as good as what I had planned, plus they have the advantage of leading me into directions I hadn't thought of--that's a very interesting kind of challenge. So I capitalize on them rather than trying to push them under the rug, so to speak. It's not frustrating because I'm not looking to eliminate all that kind of stuff, but relishing in it.

So even with how I paint, I don't usually like interruptions (and sometimes I want to make sure that I don't lose something that I "saw" in a work momentarily and do not want to forget), although I can understand them to an extent.

I also want to expand on something I mentioned earlier in this post, re not shooting for a particular blue, etc. To many, that's a good challenge as an artist--to try to replicate something like a particular blue they see in the world, or in their source material, or in their head, etc. To me, a much more interesting challenge is to end up with a blue that is very different than the world, than my source material or than what I can see in my head, and then use that blue in a place where I wouldn't have thought of using it, in a way that's interesting to me. Or, something else I often do--to arbitrarily limit myself to using some other hue (often randomly chosen) where I would have used blue normally. So, for a sky, I might end up with Burnt Sienna, or a combination of Burnt Sienna and Iridescent Silver, and as I'm painting, I might see something unintentional that suggests say, Oscar the Grouch from Sesame Street, so that will suggest trying to subtley put Sesame Street characters in the sky, and maybe I'll end up shooting for a sesame tree somewhere in the painting . . . then maybe the sesame tree will have odd unintentional aspects that make it look like an elephant to me, so I'll start developing that more, and maybe shoot for other animal-shaped trees, etc. That's a much more interesting approach to me, and more challenging, and results with zero frustration for me and 100% satisfaction with finished works.

Now, that wouldn't work for everyone, obviously. Some people would say, "Well, if I were shooting for a sesame tree and it ended up looking more like an elephant, then I'd be frustrated and want to get the sesame tree shape onto the canvas." With the way I look at it, then I wouldn't have an elephant-shaped sesame tree, and that's very interesting! I don't think that a regular sesame tree is better or worse than an elephant-shaped one.

[Sorry that I keep adding to this post, so you need to keep checking it again if you want to read it all, lol]: With the above, the artist is not in complete control of the art. This is related to the remark I made earlier about the Hindu approach (that Robert Fripp from King Crimson also practices) of "being a conduit for the art". It's as if the art is a natural process that the artist is participating in rather than being in control of. You can influence the "flow", and it will take specific forms based on you being the conduit (which emerges as your style), but you can not completely control it, and I have no desire to control it in that way. You can compare it to something like canoeing down a river--you do not control the river, even though your presence influences it in a particular way, and you can decide to take varous kinds of turns, to pause for a bit on the shore, etc.. But rather than getting frustrated that you do not control every aspect of the river, enjoy the ride.

debimari
12-07-2004, 01:08 PM
I love the fact that this is sounding more and more like a Philosophy Class... ( Really, I am not being facetious here!.. I enjoy this !.. )

I am seeing your idea... and hope that one day I will have enough inner peace to enjoy painting as completely as you ... my human elements of fear and society expectations are still haunting the mind... less so now than when I first began... but I have a long road ... ( less traveled) to go ... !...

Enjoying the conversation!.... Debi

theIsland
12-09-2004, 10:48 AM
"Frustration on the other hand is perfectly acceptable. In fact, if you are not frustrated at times you are not pushing yourself hard enough and are staying only with what you know. Frustration comes with trying new things and not getting it right first time, or the second or even many times. But patience and perseverance will get you there in the end, and very satisfying it is too!"


I guess I had the frustration trained out of me in college, so I see it as an unnecessary and negative emotion in art. As graphic design students, we were taught that art is a series of problems, and that every day we simply sit down and solve them. A commercial artist doesn't have the luxury of waiting for inspiration or the planets to align. There's no room for broad swings of emotion. A commercial artist just does the work.

As a painter, I still have that same work ethic. I am truly happy with maybe one of out twenty paintings I do, but I'm not frustrated with the other nineteen. I simply accept one out of twenty as my ratio, and keep working. I think frustration comes from the fear of a loss of control, and I accepted long ago that I don't have control over my paints. I do my best, and once in awhile I like the results. That doesn't mean my goals are low or that I'm not challenging myself. On the contrary, I challenge myself constantly. I just don't see frustration as a acceptable part of my workday. The work will get done more efficiently if I keep a clear head, and I'll be a lot happier.

Noma

family2dyl
01-07-2005, 09:50 PM
Frustration with my latest painting is what's brought me back to this forum tonight. Ok it's only my 3rd one, but I think I've set a too higher goal for myself, I'm working too fast rather than taking my time with it and I definitely don't have the technical know how to accomplish what I have in mind anyway, but I'll get there eventually.

I've learned a lot through just this one thread though, so thank you all for contributing and sharing your own thoughts and/or frustations.

Donald_Smith
01-08-2005, 01:35 AM
Debbie,

I've been working on a theory, where artists go through stages. I don't have very many of the stages worked out, and I'm sure that different artists go through them at different times in their careers / lives. I do believe the beginning artist tends to focus on the technical aspects of art. For me that is painting. So learning how to use the brushes for different effects, mixing paints to get the colors I want, studying composition, learning how to create depth, paint trees, mountains, grass, clouds, skies, sunsets, water, reflections, and the list goes on and on. At some point, we become proficent enough that the technical part becomes automatic, or second nature. How much time you spend painting, will play a big part in how quickly the technical part becomes automatic. After that time comes, then we can relax, and let our creativeity flow, and trust in our technical skills to do their thing to get the results we want in a painting. You may reach a flat spot in your learning curve. When that happens, you're in a rut, get a new book or video, take a work shop, try something new anything to get out of that rut. A rut is a grave with both ends kicked out. :D

To a beginner, I recommend playing with cheap watercolor paper and acrylics. You can practice your mixing, brush strokes, cut the paper into smaller sizes and make mini paintings playing with composition, and color coordination. There is a lot that you can do with mini paintings that will be useful when you sit down to a big canvas. Above all, play, have fun, don't be overly critical of your art, experiment, have more fun, try to things, play, learn to mix colors, play some more, relax, research and try a new brush technique, by a video and paint along with Jerry Yarnell (one of my top 10 favorite authors and producer of how to art videos), paint to please yourself. If you like it, that's all that matters.

Allow yourself to make mistakes, you're learning to paint, not a master yet. :D

Just a theory, and my thoughts and opinions. If any of you Pros, or great artists want to add to this theory, about your steps in developing, please do so.

Hope this helps,
Don

Even If It Rains
01-12-2005, 09:03 PM
No I don't not these days. I find it a rather odd question though , it's not as if the painting has a mind of it's own , I paint it. If I'm not happy with it I continue until I am. If I think it's not salvagable then I gesso over it, no big deal. I do paint rather alot though, almost every night after work. Sometimes nothing works, so I put the paint away and wait for the next day. To get frustrated would be like getting angry with the weather, no point.
I CAN understand however if you trying to reproduce a photo or more especially a portrait , where it has to be exact that can be frustrating, but I don't do that (any more) Even then though I have learned to like the imperfections, thats the human element which makes it art to me. Some of the best things I have done have been accidents.

Matt

Godzoned
01-13-2005, 02:59 AM
I sometimes am frustrated when I know something isn't right but can't put my brush to it.

So I post and ask for help. Someone always solves the problem and for that I am greatful. This site is like having tutors ready at hand. Love you all!!!!

habondia
01-13-2005, 03:49 PM
I get incredibly frustrated and sometimes depressed, like rookie...I sit and cry sometimes. For me it is not just the technical thing (although that too sometimes); it is also trying to work through all of the ideas that want to come out.

I usually make a bunch of studies before attempting a work, but the final one always turns out differently just because of the inevitable blocks that come up. For every block I come across it feels like a brick wall in front of me, trying to see what to do or where to go next. It is truly frustrating!

But as time goes on I see that the frustration comes, and instead of fighting it, it's more healthy and productive to just observe it, and let it pass. I always figure something out eventually. So the frustration stays, but I hope the attitude towards it is changing. I hope as the years pass I will be able to take it all more in my stride...

Actually I find commissions easier because the subject matter tends to be more straight-forward. Doing portraits etc. is quite boring for me but I do it for the money and because it's always good practise. But--my real work is much, much harder and a great struggle.

leverettfinn
02-24-2005, 08:41 PM
Yes....I'm very frustrated right now!! that is why I'm procrastinating by surfing WC :D ...I have a deadline (Monday)...and have painted myself into a corner so to speak....Luckily I am working on 3 different versions that can be used....I know it will work out...but I want the most challenging one to work out! and I can not at this moment figure how to resolve a some major issues with it :mad: Hopefully after some good sleep...I'll have a solution!...at the very least...I have 2 other options :rolleyes:

Lauren

Nitsa
02-24-2005, 09:15 PM
I'm abnormal! :evil: LOL! I voted NO!

The more challenging...The more excited I get!
I constantly put challenges infront of myself...because....What if?...What if I could actually carry this off....It's just paper and paint afterall - right?

I'm currently attempting a different technique to achieve the red rose that lurks in my mind, my other attempts just haven't made it...It's bugging me but exciting me all at the same time because I know that I can only have that moment once...the moment I see before me what I invisioned...What a buzz!!!
I might manage it this time, I might not but the anticipation is what drives me.

I have learned from every brushstroke, whether they created a good painting or not.

I never get frustrated but I do become very intense sometimes, where my thoughts and actions just aren't matching up....at this point I put down my brush, make a latte and plop my painting adjacent to my sofa......Relaxing and collecting your thoughts can often make all the difference I find!

Nitsa
02-24-2005, 09:30 PM
I'm copying something I said in the Water Class and it applies here:
"Itís important to remember to have fun when you are painting. Fear only comes into it if you are doing a $100,000 portrait commission for a mafia boss with an unforgiving nature and a reputation for setting unreachable standards. Frustration on the other hand is perfectly acceptable. In fact, if you are not frustrated at times you are not pushing yourself hard enough and are staying only with what you know. Frustration comes with trying new things and not getting it right first time, or the second or even many times. But patience and perseverance will get you there in the end, and very satisfying it is too!"
Frustration comes with progress. It's not easy, but the worthwhile things never are. Wanting to get it right, and not getting it right, happen all the time. It's disappointing, and frustrating when it happens over and over. Then, one day, it goes just right...isn't that a great feeling!

I disagree with the red bit in this quote. I generalises and presumes a little too much me thinx!
Just because I am not frustrated does not mean I do not push myself...I am harder on myself than anyone else could ever be on me, I am my hardest crit and strive constantly to achieve, the fact that I actually enjoy this process rather than become frustrated by it is, I believe, a bonus!

For me, becoming frustrated can only add mileage to the road to nowhere...Now to look, think, experiment, accept that it may take a while means I can keep my head clear for the stuff that matters...The problem solvers, those little miracles and the positive steps forward!

Keeping my thoughts positive and my head clear means my eyes and mind are open to everything.

bettyfaye
02-25-2005, 12:22 AM
When one of my paintings doesn't come out how I wanted it to, I tend to become very frustrated. I admit that I am very hard on myself when it comes to painting. Does this ever happen to you?

Dave
YES, THIS HAPPENS TO ME A LOT, BUT WHAT I DO IS,,, I HAVE TWO OR THREE THAT I AM WORKING ON. IF ONE OF THEM GETS ME FRUSTRATED, I LAY IT DOWN AND GO TO ANOTHER ONE. THEN, AFTER AWHILE I GO BACK TO THE FIRST ONE, AND HAVE NO PROBLEM. IT WORKS. GOOD LUCK

sarahbellum
02-25-2005, 01:55 PM
If a couple of paintings in a row flow effortlessly, it means I am in a rut and not stretching. If I am not getting frustrated sometimes, it means I am just copying myself, and doing what I know comes easily. To me, that's not art. I believe the more I challenge myself, the better my art will get. Anything else and I am just a hack.

Sarah

idylbrush
02-26-2005, 05:01 AM
When one of my paintings doesn't come out how I wanted it to, I tend to become very frustrated. I admit that I am very hard on myself when it comes to painting. Does this ever happen to you?

Dave


I only allow myself to be frustrated once a day, but it generally last 24 hours.

Nitsa
02-26-2005, 11:33 AM
If a couple of paintings in a row flow effortlessly, it means I am in a rut and not stretching. If I am not getting frustrated sometimes, it means I am just copying myself, and doing what I know comes easily. To me, that's not art. I believe the more I challenge myself, the better my art will get. Anything else and I am just a hack.

Sarah

Sarah I have almost the exact same reactions but instead of frustration I feel excitement at the thought of having to overcome a hurdle and commence battle!
If what I am painting doesn't make me question, or demand something of me in some way ....I'm not excited about it....If I'm not challenged I'm not excited and for me I guess frustration IS excitement....it's just more positive and with a positive mind I find I can see things clearer and stand a better chance of resolving the challenge.


I only allow myself to be frustrated once a day, but it generally last 24 hours.

LOL!!!!!!! :D

Mikey
02-26-2005, 12:14 PM
It's just the same for me Anita. Yet this week something strange happened. I'd been doing a big painting, but for some reason put it off and began working on other things. Then I began yet another painting which I really wanted to do, but it just wasn't happening for me. I got that inner nudge to begin the big one again and it's on the way again, everything going nicely.

BTW I like the work on your website.

Mikey

LinneaL
02-26-2005, 01:21 PM
I get frustrated when The idea in my mind refuses to transfer itself to my canvas. It is an unpleasant feeling; not to be compared with the excited feelings I experience when I challange myself and the challange is met (alas I do not experience this feeling as often as I would wish.). :wave:

Artguy29
02-26-2005, 03:35 PM
I get frustrated when The idea in my mind refuses to transfer itself to my canvas. It is an unpleasant feeling; not to be compared with the excited feelings I experience when I challange myself and the challange is met (alas I do not experience this feeling as often as I would wish.). :wave:

I think that is the source of my frustration as well. I can see a fabulous painting in my mind, and when I go to paint it, I end up with a mess. Very unpleasent indeed.

Dave

theIsland
02-26-2005, 03:42 PM
I don't think there's a painter alive who hasn't had days when expectations exceeded ability. That we all struggle is a given, but frustration is purely optional.

Noma

Nitsa
02-26-2005, 09:21 PM
It's just the same for me Anita. Yet this week something strange happened. I'd been doing a big painting, but for some reason put it off and began working on other things. Then I began yet another painting which I really wanted to do, but it just wasn't happening for me. I got that inner nudge to begin the big one again and it's on the way again, everything going nicely.

BTW I like the work on your website.

Mikey

I do much the same Mikey, I can have a whole day to paint sometimes but only actually paint for 20 minutes....It has to "feel" right to me, if it doesn't the brushes go down until it does.
I find that often I know I must take a very daring step to make a painting do what I want it to and I'll hesitate for ages, often not knowing that I am. Once I realise ...I tend to wait it out as I get very rebellious in the early hours :evil: That's when I do my most daring and most often successful actions.
I once laid a wash of yellow ochre over the whole of a perfectly fine portrait at 2am because I had a suspicion it could make it look better. :eek:
It worked thank God! LOL!
Funny....at 2am I seem to remember that it's just paper and paint and suddenly the drama goes out of the action and into the painting! :)

TY for taking time to browse my website and for your lovely comment!

blumoon
02-26-2005, 11:26 PM
Some paintings seem to go easier than others. Probably I am frustrated when it takes more sweat to acheive what I want to see, or sometimes if I am in a hurry to finish it.

Anita Murphy
03-10-2005, 06:29 PM
All the time! There are those "Who am I fooling moments" all the time. Days when I take a knife to the canvas. But I am getting a little better. I used to find that what annoyed me most was that I couldn't get it like that picture in my head. I solved that one. I now let it evolve and don't let myself get set on it being a certain way. I don't know how it happened but I am so glad it did. I've also found music helps. I still have those mid-painting crises though when I just want to scream.
KA