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View Full Version : Questionnaire on Oil Sticks, Oil Bars and Paintstiks


Kathryn Wilson
10-21-2004, 12:00 PM
There have been questions off and on regarding using oil sticks, oil bars and paintstiks in conjunction with oil pastels, so I thought I would ask a series of questions to garner information about how these mediums work together.

Have you ever used "oil sticks" (oil bars, paintstiks)?
Have you used them in conjunction with oil pastels?
Did you get the desired results combining the two?
Do you belong to an oil stick organization?
Have you ever entered an oil stick in competition?
What were the results?
What properties of the oil sticks do you like or don't like?

If you have a painting that distinctly shows the difference between the two in the same painting, that would be helpful too. e.g. the background, sky or particular object was done with one medium, the rest of the painting in the other medium. Explain why you felt you wanted to use them together and what effects you expected to get.

This can be a big learning discussion for all of us.

cjkelly
10-22-2004, 03:48 PM
Hi Kat, I hope there is some helpful input here, as I have only just begun using Markal Professional Paintsticks, and am still figuring them out.
To answer your questions:
Have you ever used "oil sticks" (oil bars, paintstiks)? Yes, in only two paintings so far.
Have you used them in conjunction with oil pastels? Yes, but so far only as an underpainting - allowing them to dry (which is quite quick when layers are thin) before going over with the op's.
Did you get the desired results combining the two? Yes - the paintstiks were able to cover large areas of blank canvas that would otherwise have been uneconomical using op's.
Do you belong to an oil stick organization? No
Have you ever entered an oil stick in competition?
What were the results? No.
What properties of the oil sticks do you like or don't like? I appreciate their ease of handling, their immediacy, their ability to be mixed with mediums, and I don't have to worry about putting the lid back on :D Some may find the drying time inconvenient, but I have found that waiting time to be a great 'cooling off' period, where I am forced to stand back and assess the painting more before diving in with the op's. And as mentioned before, their covering abilities make them ideal for laying a wash or underpainting on larger works. So far that is the only reason I have bought them - op's remaining the dominant medium over the top. Not sure I would use them entirely on their own just yet, but not ruling that out in the future.

cj

Dyin
10-22-2004, 09:20 PM
[QUOTE=kyle]

Have you ever used "oil sticks" (oil bars, paintstiks)?

yes, recently started using Shiva Paintstiks

Have you used them in conjunction with oil pastels?

not yet, wanted to see what their properties were alone first, but feel they
will work fine with or without OPs.

Did you get the desired results combining the two?

Do you belong to an oil stick organization?

no

Have you ever entered an oil stick in competition?

no

What were the results?

What properties of the oil sticks do you like or don't like?

I like them because of their immediancy, in your hand just like OPs and yet they have the same versatility as oil paint. At first I felt they were overlarge and less opaque than OPs and have had a hard time getting used to the drying time, but my inexperience with oils is what the real problem was, I am finding, like cj, that the drying time is a good thing and now I'm really glad for their size and opaqueness is not an issue with multiple layers.

If you have a painting that distinctly shows the difference between the two in the same painting, that would be helpful too. e.g. the background, sky or particular object was done with one medium, the rest of the painting in the other medium. Explain why you felt you wanted to use them together and what effects you expected to get.

I have not used the Paintstiks with OP but I have used an oil background on my avatar self portrait...the two work very well together...and the Paintstiks have the exact same properties as oil paint, excepting the fact that they are quicker drying and hand held. I used oil because I wanted a glazed smoke effect on a velour board and that was one effect I could not acheive with oil pastels. I will be using them with oil pastels in the future and as a stand alone also.

Kathryn Wilson
10-22-2004, 10:14 PM
Thanks for responding CJ - I'm not familiar with Markal paintstiks - are they only found where you are and who makes them?

How did you prepare your surface before using them? Did you see any "bleed through"?

Did you blend them at all? Fingers? something else?

After putting them on the surface, do you feel you could use a paint brush to push the color around?

------------------------

I knew I could count on you to reply Sue - if you want to answer any of the above questions, that would be helpful too.

Dyin
10-22-2004, 10:45 PM
on my end I can't speak for the two together yet. My surface right now is canvas and I marbledust gessoed it on top of the acrylic factory gesso. I find I'm using every method under the sun lol! I've put them on direct, smeared them with fingers, used my handy dandy cuticle pusher, used a brush, did a glaze with alkyd medium. The only problem I've had is that I haven't been patient enough for some of my steps. The Shiva Paintstiks dry in a day and will take new layers, but not scrubbing as they are not bone dry yet, in some cases I used a rag to get a cloud effect, and it did thin out the lower layer...live and learn, and practice patience. They are drier than tube oils, so a scumbling seems to work best with the brush unless you add a medium to it. Again, I'm very inexperienced with oils. I do love the color combinations you can get wet in wet, just like with OPs, but the one advantage they have is you can let it dry and add color without picking up the lower layer. And do thin glazes. I do not care for acrylic underpainting and cannot control watercolor. So I think this will be great for underpainting with the OPs...and maybe some other yet unknown possibilities will be discovered along the way. I think oils are a pretty traditional medium, but the stick form is fairly new and begs to be experimented with just like OPs. :D

cjkelly
10-23-2004, 05:10 AM
Thanks for responding CJ - I'm not familiar with Markal paintstiks - are they only found where you are and who makes them?

How did you prepare your surface before using them? Did you see any "bleed through"?

Did you blend them at all? Fingers? something else?

After putting them on the surface, do you feel you could use a paint brush to push the color around?

------------------------

I knew I could count on you to reply Sue - if you want to answer any of the above questions, that would be helpful too.

I've just grabbed the box, and they are manufactured in the USA by LA-CO Industries, Inc./Markal Company, Chicago, IL.
I have a set of Shiva on back-order through the local art supplier, but they seem to be having problems getting hold of any.

I've used them on primed canvas, which I have also applied another 2 coats of gesso to. Not sure what you mean by 'bleed', but I imagine that on unprimed paper the oil would soak away much like oil paints. I think it was Degas actually liked that effect, though not terribly archival. I believe (but please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) that all rules pertaining to oil paints also apply to oilsticks/bars. Though, like Sue, I'm also not very experienced with oil paint.

Also as Sue said, the oilsticks are a bit drier than oil paints from a tube, so are difficult to move about with a brush without the addition of some fluid medium. I have added odourless solvent, and refined linseed oil (not together!) and have blended with fingers, rags and paintbrushes. I have been able to achieve some fine detail with the linseed, mixing the paint and oil on a palette before applying with a thin brush. Much less success using this method with the op's though.

Still playing with them. I have bought some Liquin Gel to try glazing effects.

cj

steven
10-24-2004, 12:03 PM
Have you ever used "oil sticks" (oil bars, paintstiks)?

Not yet, but in my favourite art shop here, the Sennelier Oil Sticks are located right next to the OP stock - and it's very tempting!!! :evil:

Reading all this with interest... :p

Pat Isaac
10-26-2004, 08:54 AM
There have been questions off and on regarding using oil sticks, oil bars and paintstiks in conjunction with oil pastels, so I thought I would ask a series of questions to garner information about how these mediums work together.

Have you ever used "oil sticks" (oil bars, paintstiks)?

Yes, I have and I usually use R&F pigment sticks. I have tried Shiva, oil bar, and Sennelier.

Have you used them in conjunction with oil pastels?
Yes, I used the pigment sticks first.

Did you get the desired results combining the two?
Yes, I did.

Do you belong to an oil stick organization?
No, didn't know there was one.

Have you ever entered an oil stick in competition?
No

What were the results?
What properties of the oil sticks do you like or don't like?
I love their colors (lots of pigment) and their oil paint quality.

If you have a painting that distinctly shows the difference between the two in the same painting, that would be helpful too. e.g. the background, sky or particular object was done with one medium, the rest of the painting in the other medium. Explain why you felt you wanted to use them together and what effects you expected to get.
I tend to paint large so I often use the pigment sticks to start a painting and then add the OPs for detail. The pigment sticks also give me a more painterly look. I use them on Sennelier La Carte paper and Wallis. I don't have any trouble with bleed through. I will include a piece that I did with both mediums. Hopefully it will show the use of the pigment sticks.
Pat

This can be a big learning discussion for all of us.

__________________

Diyart
04-15-2005, 04:33 AM
Hello Kyle,
I want to try some answers based on my short experience with oil sticks (1 year)

Have you used them in conjunction with oil pastels?
Yes, but only one time
Did you get the desired results combining the two?
Not really, because oil pastels have different viscosity than oil sticks
also oil pastels nver dry, oil sticks are dry on the surface after 2 months (sennelier)
Do you belong to an oil stick organization? No
Have you ever entered an oil stick in competition? No

What properties of the oil sticks do you like or don't like?
I used oil sticks as alternative to oil colors in tubes for plein air work.
Oil sticks are of course easier to carry. Also working with oil sticks
is more like a drawing process and I liked this aspect.
Blending of oil sticks is a very difficult thing and I felt that especially
under hot conditions it seemed to work,but after drying the colors seemed to
speparate again a bit. Blending with oil sticks seems quite difficult for me.
Oil sticks are mostly relatively big in size compared with pastels so you need
bigger formats if you want to display details.
I used oil stick in connection with oil pastels on a bigger format to paint a sky.
It worked for me to get white into the sky, but other colors did not fit in for me. Also you hardly can work with pastels over the oily surface of oilstick areas.


I still like oil sticks,but I use them as separate medium or in connection
with oil paint. Oil sticks give me the possibility to work agressive with gestures
on formats with minimum 50X60 cm (18X24).
As there is a limited selection of colors I was forced to reduction which helped
me also. The color of the Sennelier oil sticks is very strong and the painting
can be varnished after drying like an oil painting.
Both Winsor Newton and Sennelier have very nice color ranges for Siena,umber, ocre and a couple of greens which are excellent. However I miss
suitable blues for use in skies. There is only one light blue all the others are relatively dark and blending with white is not easy.

best regards
Martin

Scads
05-18-2005, 02:09 AM
Hi, this is my first time ever on questions. I have just got some Winton and Newton oil bars and if you use them on a canvas, do you need to seal or varnish when dry or finished.? scads from Western Australia

Pat Isaac
05-18-2005, 08:15 AM
I have never used these on canvas and only in conjunction with oil pastels. I would think that you could varnish as they are really oil paint in stick form. Hopefully, someone who has done this will respond.

Pat

CarlyHardy
05-22-2005, 06:16 PM
Scads,
the oil sticks should be really dry before a varnish is applied (as with any traditional oil). As you may know, oils do not really need to be varnished, however, sometimes there can be dull areas caused by the use of mediums added to the paint and an overall varnish will bring back the glow of the oils.

One caution! If the painting has oil sticks and oil pastels used, I would not use a final varnish over the painting. Oil pastels don't dry but they do harden. This takes much longer than the drying time for traditional oils.

carly

Scads
05-22-2005, 09:53 PM
Hi Pat and Carly, thanks for you information on oil sticks. It did confirm my own thinking. I just have to get stuck into them now. regard Scads

ternik
11-17-2006, 12:25 AM
"I have never used these on canvas and only in conjunction with oil pastels. I would think that you could varnish as they are really oil paint in stick form. Hopefully, someone who has done this will respond."

Pat

I have used oil sticks in conjunction with an extra-greasy oil pastel(they are basically the same materials but proportioned differently). My significant-other uses them on canvas and pre-sized rage paper/boards and has varnished the work....But only after many months of drying in most cases. The stick and pastels that we use are made with bee's wax and linseed oil (not parafin or mineral oil) pigmentsplus.com has a large selection of each.
Nicole likes to apply the pastels and then remove and re-work with oil-sticks.

Pat Isaac
11-17-2006, 07:11 AM
I have used oil sticks, (R&F pigment sticks ) on canvas and then varnished., as they are oil paint. However, when I use them in conjunction with oil pastels I frame under glass.

Pat

Jangogh
01-07-2007, 03:22 PM
Art Lady Confidential (http://artladyconfidential.blogspot.com) has a post about the Shiva paintsticks on her blog. She had responded to a question about using them on fabric.

cmg_art
01-07-2007, 10:12 PM
Oh Janet you are too quick! I was just looking for more info on Paintsticks on WC...

CarlyHardy
01-14-2007, 03:38 PM
I've begun to use the oil sticks more now with my oil paintings. I find that the hands on touch is so similar to using the oil pastels! Most colors do dry to the touch in a day except for the white. I find that white takes much longer.

I doubt I'll use these in conjunction with my oil pastels since they could cause damage to any paper that wasn't protected from the acidic oil content. But with a paper that had several coats of gesso, they would be very similar in consistency with my Sennelier sticks.

Right now I'm using Shiva, Winsor/Newton, Sennelier, and a few R&F. The R&F seem to have the most brilliant color!
carly

Pat Isaac
01-14-2007, 03:48 PM
I do love the R&F sticks, especially their wonderful colors. I use them with oil paint and have had no trouble using them with OPs as long as I use them first. Colorfix and Wallis papers work well and as you say anything coated with gesso.
Would love to see some of thes images. Have you posted any yet?

Pat

morna
11-18-2007, 01:43 PM
I've begun to use the oil sticks more now with my oil paintings. I find that the hands on touch is so similar to using the oil pastels! Most colors do dry to the touch in a day except for the white. I find that white takes much longer.

I doubt I'll use these in conjunction with my oil pastels since they could cause damage to any paper that wasn't protected from the acidic oil content. But with a paper that had several coats of gesso, they would be very similar in consistency with my Sennelier sticks.

Right now I'm using Shiva, Winsor/Newton, Sennelier, and a few R&F. The R&F seem to have the most brilliant color!
carly

I've been using oil bars on paper for about three months - I love them but i'm worried about your statement (bolded). I'm using Shiva sticks and it says right on the package that they're good to use on paper. I have 40 paintings that I sure hope aren't going to be unstable in the long run. I also haven't had much luck finding out technical stuff like - do I need to "varnish" the piece when it's finished - again the things I've read suggest that they should be fine and stable without any covering.

... and while I'm here, I read somewhere that one shouldn't use a greater proportion of media to paint than 'x' (can't remember the number at the moment ). I use a lot of the colourless blender stick - is this considered media. I'm very new to painting on flat surfaces and traditional art materials, I have painted (high temperature oil based enamels) on glass for 15 or so years. I'm going to make a stab at doing this for a (partial at least) living so I want my stuff to be well crafted and stable.

an example of my work - tiny piece about 5x6"

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i14/mornagary/oilbargaresBDcardoct28.jpg

Pat Isaac
11-19-2007, 04:10 PM
This is a beautiful rich painting. Love the strong color. I have used paint sticks on paper as long as the paper has a backing, like colorfix or Sennelier La Carte. I do gesso the other types of paper that I use. I would assume you could treat these paintings like an oil painting as that is what they are.
Here is a link to the R&F pigment stick site which has technical information.
http://www.rfpaints.com/3-Pigment%20Sticks/PigmentStickTop.htm
Hope this answers some of your questions.

Pat

artbyjune
02-02-2008, 08:33 AM
I am currently using Senneliers OPs over Senneliers oil bars which have dried.... the surface is gessoed canvas ( not a high quality canvas).

So far, I've found that the oil bars give a beautiful rich and luminous colour. I'm finding however that OPs are just sinking into the painted surface. I hope that more applications of OP will help them to rise up from the surface...I wonder ....if they don't, would it be OK to put some marks of oil bars over or amongst the OP marks?

Anyone tried this?

I'll soldier on and post my results later.

Pat Isaac
02-02-2008, 09:58 AM
I have frequently used R&F pigment sticks with OPs on top. The sticks need to dry first, but I didn't find the the OPs sunk into the painted surface. I did use more then one layer of OPs though and they were Senneliers.
Here is one I did using both.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Feb-2008/35760-SilverandGold_small.jpg

Pat

artbyjune
02-03-2008, 05:28 AM
Hi Pat, I expect you used your oil sticks in similar colours to the OPs on top? My 'problem' may be that I used random colours underneath and I am changing the colours slightly as I work on the image which I placed on top. (My oil sticks were dry before I started with the OPs).

Howvere, I actually think the problem lies with the canvas not the paint. I did one before with acrylics on this canvas for my base and OPs on top. It took quite a few layers of OP to get the OP to stay on the acrylic surface too. It did stick eventually.

I'm hoping to do more work on my current effort tomorrow and so I will post the finished picture, ASAP. I will switch to gessoed paper for my next efforts in these mixed media.

Thanks for replying.

P.S. I love your flower painting.:clap:

Pat Isaac
02-03-2008, 10:17 AM
It could be the surface and I did use similar colors for the most part. My support was a primed paper.

Pat

Blayne
03-08-2008, 10:14 AM
I found very reasonably priced (5 pads of 9 1/2 x 12 1/2 for $28.97 -- and they do have many sizes available) "Oil Painting Paper" at www.thepapermillstore.com. The Product Overview of the paper states:
"The surface of this Schoellershammer German oil painting paper is embossed to create a beautiful texture with the same look as real canvas. The oil painting paper is impregnated with a special additive which prevents any deterioration of the paint. Paints remain mixable for a long period and do not lose their brilliance. The structured surface of the oil painting paper supports inspiring and brilliant application of oil colors. This is truly a precious paper suitable for ageless art and homescapes fine art paintings." It is described as "chlorine free, acid free, recyclable."

I hope it lives up to its promise! I ordered yesterday and it shipped same day. Haven't received it yet but am looking forward to getting it! I have been using paper that I have gessoed, but that is a tedious procedure and the paper usually refuses to remain flat.

Pat Isaac
04-18-2008, 04:43 PM
I have used a canvas paper for some of my oil stick works. It works quite well. How do you like it?


Pat

Dorothy Sikora
08-25-2008, 07:46 PM
I am allergic to oil paint which is a terrible problem. For some years I had to move to water color which I do not like nearly as much. However, recently I found that I could tolerate Sennelier oil pastels. Paint sticks have too much linseed oil in them or something. I cannot tolerate them.

OK, my problem is this. I have dozens of canvases in oil which are unfinished. Recently I used sennelier oil pastels to "finish" one. It looks quite good. But now the problem emerges. Are these oil pastels going to DRY? If they don't, they need protection. They are on canvas, of course, and that is the proper way to present oil painting. But if they were sticky, and stayed sticky, how can I frame them?

I would love some advise here.

Dorothy Sikora [email protected]

Pat Isaac
08-26-2008, 06:53 AM
Hi Dorothy,

Putting oil pastel on top of dry oil pastel is perfectly fine. I often do that myself. However, oil pastels really never dry. They do harden and cure over time, but damage is always possible. It is possible to frame a canvas under glass. One of our OP artists always uses canvas and then frames under glass using spacers between the canvas and glass.
Hope this helps. Feel free to ask more questions and you can post work in our oil pastel studio here http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=393
or ask more questions in our talk forum here http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=-1&f=432

Pat

CarlyHardy
08-27-2008, 12:15 AM
Hi Dorothy,
Since the oil pastels are an inert oil, and not distilled from a petroleum distillate, this the most likely reason that they won't cause you any allergic reactions. So glad that you found them!!

As Pat said, they don't 'dry' in the usual way that traditional oils dry (by oxidation) but rather, they harden from within. Because of this, oil pastels are better suited to a hard backed surface which doesn't bounce. I have painted on canvas but then I stretched it over a hard board surface and glued the edges to the back. After several months, the painting is now hardened and can be touched without any damage.

Just give your paintings some time...hang them and enjoy them! They will harden but Sennelier has a higher content of oil, so it will take some time.

carly

JPQ
07-13-2009, 12:03 PM
Im not sure Cran d'ache NeoPastes uses mineral oil i can use them but real oil color i cannot use. these and aquarelle now seems to be my main mediums.