my new easel design

[Marc Sabatella]

I am in the process of designing a new portable easel. Actually, the design is basically done, I have a working prototype that I think is frankly wonderful, and I plan to start trying to make more of these soon and hopefully marketing them. It is basically like a "French Companion" (a thin box whose lid opens butterfly fashion revealing the palette on the bottom as well as extra palette or work space in the wings), with a tripod mount and an adjustable mast for a painting support that folds inside the box. There is a separate lightweight wet panel carrier, and the idea is that you can toss them both in a backpack along with your supplies.

This design was my attempt to meet a certain set of diesgn goals and assumptions, and I am trying to get feedback on these.

My goals include:

- extremely lightweight & portable, yet as sturdy as possible
- able to work on paintings from arbitrarily small up to, say, 16x20
- generous palette and working space - at least 12x16, say
- extremely simple set up / break down (ideally, around 10 seconds or less)

My main additional assumption is that it is fine if there is no storage (aside from protection of paint on the palette) within the easel itself, as long as it is small and light enough to fit in a backpack along with your supplies, including the wet panel carrier. Building storage into the easel just adds weight to the box, in my opinion, and/or forces you to compromise on how much stuff you take.

Again, I am wondering if these design goals and assumptions make sense to others, and if there are particular features or other considerations I should be thinking about as well.

[romell]

I think this is to be a very nice portable easel if you could meet all the goals you have set in your design.

Since you have mentioned that this can hold a small size up to 16"x 20", I imagine that you can raise-up the canvas/panel such that there is enough space between the bottom edge of canvas/panel and the palette. I'm saying this because I have noticed that for some commercially available pochade box (including my DIY painting box :evil: ) - the canvas/panel support is very closed with the palette. Sometimes I didn't notice that my elbow is almost touching on the palette, thus my shirt's sleeve got a full of paint. :(

Marc, hoping your new easel will be available soon. I'll be you first customer.
Also, I hope it will be afforable. :D

[Tony Perrotta]

Hey Marc, yeah it sounds great, I have a french companion and how you describe your design sounds like it'll be a good option and a little bigger than a regular pochade box, can't wait to see one built.

Tony :)

[Melania]

My goals include:

- extremely lightweight & portable, yet as sturdy as possible
- able to work on paintings from arbitrarily small up to, say, 16x20
- generous palette and working space - at least 12x16, say
- extremely simple set up / break down (ideally, around 10 seconds or less)

My main additional assumption is that it is fine if there is no storage (aside from protection of paint on the palette) within the easel itself, as long as it is small and light enough to fit in a backpack along with your supplies, including the wet panel carrier. Building storage into the easel just adds weight to the box

Marc,
Yes ! This sounds like what I have been looking for, I do not need storage in the easel itself, I use a canvas bag for supplies, this way the easel is more compact and light.
I would like an easy way to attach a panel to the easel, perhaps similar to the french easel with the 3 metal prongs which do not cover much of the panel, also, as suggested above, a way to slide the panel holder up so that there is space between where the palette rests and where the bottom of the painting begins, otherwise you feel cramped painting in and down, and would like space so the bottom of your panel could be adjusted to be above the palette by a good 4 inches. +/-
I would not care if it held panels as large as 12 x 16, 9 x 12 would be okay, I am concerned that larger panels could lead to instability.
Looking forward to seeing what you have put together.
Melanie

[MarshaSavage]

Marc,

Please be sure to post a picture when you have something close to what you are trying to achieve.

Storage in the box is always causing too much weight -- glad to see you are leaving that out. Keeping everything to size that will fit in a backpack is great -- because there is usually enough room for the painting media. Also, the concern about raising the bottom of the painting up enough to keep sleeves out of the paint or forearms, etc. Great! Also, stability of a lighter easel might be a problem as someone else asked about. Any thoughts?

Do you plan to be able to work with pastel on this easel? Don't see why not. Same as a panel for oil. Right?

My french easel has been wonderful, but it is quite cumbersome and heavy. And, if it wears out, I don't see mine listed in any catalogs -- it is about 4 or 5 years old. I bought a newer one to leave at my vacation home, but it is so "ricketty" compared to my original one.

Will be looking forward to the finished design and the cost.

[midcoast]

Marc!!!

We must be on the exact same wavelength!! About 2 weeks ago I was thinking just the same thing - that I needed some kind of "easel" or pochade box that was lightweight enough to stick in a backpack, and that didn't include any storage on the box itself. WOW!! I can't wait to see your finished product as you very well may have another customer in me. :)

Great idea!!!

Nancy

[manfrommerriam]

Well, this sounds like the EASyl Pro or the Open Box M with 1) folding extensions instead of clip-on extensions and 2) a support for panels/canvas like that of the Soltek. Could be a real winner. I am not so concerned with weight as I am with stability. There is a lot of wind catching frontal-area with those big panels that you will need to control with a single attachment point. I suggest you be careful in locating the tripod attachment so your box is well ballanced when big panels are on it. If you use a ball-style attachment with a quick-release, get an oversized one. One more point: rather than having hooks and hang-on turps and brush holders, build them into your pallet holder. Have fun. :)

Dave

[Marc Sabatella]

Thanks for the comments.

I had actually taken into account the need to have the height of the bottom of the painting adjustable, as I had heard others complain about this in other pocahde boxes, and had been slightly bothered by it myself in the Russian field easel. So I made sure my design allowed some reasonable distance. The mount itself is indeed quite low profile - similar to the French easel if you use the brass prongs instead of the grooves.

I forgot to mention another goal I set out for myself - I wanted the box to sit flat on a table, to make it convenient for indoor use as well. So far, I've been able to hold to that, although it has definitely required me to do some creative thinking.

Pastel - well, of course, the easel is usable for pastel, but I actually have in mind a variation on the basic design for pastel. While I said I considered storage inside the easel optional for oil painters, it is of much greater benefit for pastellists. So I'll probably alter the dimensions to allow for that in a pastel version.

Stability is an issue with any pochade box; the tripod and in particular the tripod mount tends to be the weak link. My first few prototypes were noticeably unstable in themselves, but I've improved it to the point where, as with any pochade box, the tripod & mount are the determining factors. The unusually light weight of the box does not seem to be an issue in itself, but see below.

I realize not everyone likes painting 16x20 outside, but it was important to me to be able to do so. Did my first one today, and am happy to report it worked great. I've done about a dozen paintings this size on my Open Box M easel, and haven't had problems with wind, but I don't work that big when it's very windy. Anyhow, I can't see how my easel would be any less conducive to painting this size than anything else short of a French easel.

One question: I personally just use the "wings" for my brushes, spare tubes of paint, etc. And I don't use turps (just a very small container of walnut oil), so I don't have to worry about that. Frankly, the current design is such that a largish container of turps, like those metal ones a lot of folks use, is probably to heavy to sit on the easel, and there are only certain places on the easel you could safely hang such a jar. That's one price I guess I am paying for the light weight. How would people *like* to see this solved? Is there a particular place you prefer to have your turps?

[midcoast]

Marc,

I'd like to be able to do a largish painting outside without having to buy a french easel. If your design could accomodate that WITH being lightweight enough to pack in a ways, you'd have a winner.

Currently, I hang my turp container off the leg of my tripod. I have an older Bogen with wingnut-like adjustment knobs, so the turp container hang off there just fine. I would recommend some kind of optional hook (or something similar) that people could hang their turp container from if the need to.

Your design is sounding great!! I can't wait to see a "finished" product!!

Nancy

[Marc Sabatella]

I'd like to be able to do a largish painting outside without having to buy a french easel. If your design could accomodate that WITH being lightweight enough to pack in a ways, you'd have a winner.


Is 16x20 large enough, or do you have bigger in mind? It would have to be jury-rigged to hold bigger paintings, much as most other pochade boxes have to be jury-rigged to do 16x20.

As for weight, I brought the prototype in to the post office out of curiosity to weigh it. It came in at 2 lbs 10 oz for the easel itself. The panel carrier had wet panels in it, so I didn't mess with it.


Currently, I hang my turp container off the leg of my tripod. I have an older Bogen with wingnut-like adjustment knobs, so the turp container hang off there just fine. I would recommend some kind of optional hook (or something similar) that people could hang their turp container from if the need to.


From the tripod, as you currently do, or from the easel itself? Again, there are probably issues in doing so from the current form of the easel unless perhaps you hang it from the middle, dead center, where it can support the most weight. So I'm trying to gauge whether it is worth designing more supports into it for hanging heavier objects, especailly if the cost is more weight on the easel itself, and where exactly on the easel people would want to hang things.

Nancy, if you find yourself in Denver in the near future (you live nearby, right?), give me a call (I'm in the book) and I'll be happy to see if we can get together. Maybe even to paint...

[midcoast]

Marc,

About the widest painting I would do outdoors is a 24" (12"x24"). 16x20 is probably the biggest overall painting I would do (now) outdoors. Right now, without getting a French Easel, I have to limit myself to about 16" wide or so.

I don't think the turp holder is a big deal for a lot of folks. Most artists I paint with hang the thing off their tripod anyway, so I don't think you'd need to deal with it on your easel. My turp container is kinda heavy, so the best place for it is hanging off the tripod.

Marc, I live near Monument and work in Englewood, and would love to get together with you for a day of painting or meet up for coffee. I have as yet to meet any fellow WC-ers :)


Nancy

[manfrommerriam]

Well, I wrote this too huge comment and my MODEM timed out and I lost it. Basically I explained in too much detail why I feel I know something about this. Anyhow. I paint plein-air on 12x16 Arches blocks on a watercolor version, large size, Open Box M. It is fitted with several modifications which I won't describe exhaustively again beyond saying I now mount the tripod/quick release/ball joint to the easel, not the pallet holder. This moves my center of ballance back into a better position. I am able to hang a EASyl Pro brush holder and a quart of water in a folding bucket off of the pallet holder. So I reiterate my earlier comments, ballance it well and put on a bigish ball joint. You should have no problem with a turps pot and 12 x 16 if you do that and kinda stay out of the wind.

Sounds like a fun project, hope to see one some day. :)

Dave

[Marc Sabatella]

I paint plein-air on 12x16 Arches blocks on a watercolor version, large size, Open Box M. It is fitted with several modifications which I won't describe exhaustively again beyond saying I now mount the tripod/quick release/ball joint to the easel, not the pallet holder. This moves my center of ballance back into a better position.


Sorry you lost the longer post you had typed up! But if I understand you correctly, you have the large size Open Box M, which comes with the tripod mount underneath the palette, but you've had problems with this, so you've rigged up a new tripod mount somehow on the panel holder portion. Presumably at the bottom, where it hinges to the palette?

I do find this curious, because had done some tests on my box before drilling the whole, and found with an 11x14 panel in position, the center of gravity really is more or less where Open Box M puts their mount, so I did mine the same way.

So I reiterate my earlier comments, ballance it well and put on a bigish ball joint. You should have no problem with a turps pot and 12 x 16 if you do that and kinda stay out of the wind.


Well, I have no control over the ball joint on people's tripods. But my concern with the weight of the turps pot isn't balance, it's the actual strength of the wood.

[Tony Perrotta]

Hi Marc, I made a box out of a paint box, just a comon box that all art stores sell, it's 13x17 holds a 12x16 panel in the lid which is grooved. i don't use the grooves, I clamp a board to the lid and my panel to the board so I can get the extra height I need. It works, but like you said the tripod mount is the weakest link, I renforced the bottom of the box with a hard wood plank about 4 " wide and 1/2 " thick, the way I finally solved the mount problem is to drill right through the box and bolt the box to the tripod. My tripod was not the best but at least now it works. Yes the stability test is the big one for sure... I don't think the turps container is that important, I use a 4 or 5 oz glass jar. If people want to paint with a pochade style box I would think that most would not be carrying a heavy turps container.

JMO Tony :)

[manfrommerriam]

Marc:
I'm putting a 12x16 w/c block up on the easel and it is pretty heavy, (and the lexan of the watercolor version Open Box M might also be a tad heavier than the wooden version). In addition I raise the block of paper up an inch or two away from flying splashes on my pallet. With the "factory" set-up the ball joint had a hard time holding it's settings.
I added a second threaded hole-mount closer to the hinges but the ball joint kept slipping unless I murderized the ball. So I placed a strip of red oak across the hinge end of the easel and I put a Guerilla Box tripod mount on to that oak strip. It now holds pretty well.
Okay on your worry about the strength of the wood vs turps pot weight. I guess I'm not visualizing your set-up well. My quart of water is hanging off the strip of black walnut on one side of the Open Box M.... but you will have two swinging panels on each side... right?
In an aside, I have a "desk tray" ,(one of those compartmented plastic things found in the top drawer of desks) modified to clamp onto the tripods center tube via a short arm. This allows me to place things like water, brushes pencils and erasers just below the pallet if I wish.
And I note my 12x16 would not be relevant to your desire for 16x20. Oops, my remark refering to that was a blunder.

Have fun, :)

Dave

[Marc Sabatella]

OK, I can see that the WC block would be heavier, and the lexan would also affect things. So now I'm reasonably satisfied my tripod mount is OK where it is. Although of course hanging a heavy turps container off the front would throw it off again. It's impossible to account for everything.


Okay on your worry about the strength of the wood vs turps pot weight. I guess I'm not visualizing your set-up well. My quart of water is hanging off the strip of black walnut on one side of the Open Box M.... but you will have two swinging panels on each side... right?


Correct - and I definitely wouldn't trust anything heavy hanging from them. Anything heavy that hangs would have to hang front & center.

Now, the side panels are still reasonable sturdy - more so than the bolt-on ones with Open Box M. You could sit your container on the side panel, if it isn't too heavy. I've been leaving several tubes of paint and a sketchbook on one side with no problems thus far.

Anyhow, glad to hear people don't seem to think the turps container is a huge issue. And of course, I don't *know* that it would be a problem - I suppose I should bring one with me sometime just to test. I suppose if it works with the Open Box M easel, it has a good chance of working with mine, as the basic box design is quite similar.

[midcoast]

I'd be HAPPY to test one for you :D

Nancy

[manfrommerriam]

Marc:

Well there are simple ways to brace-up those folding side-panels. Folding table leaves are often supported by pull-out or swing-out horizontal supports. these are often just a simple straight piece of wood. There are slim metal devices made to be drawer-glides that might do a great job of it. The brace itself could be the host for your turps pot.

have fun! :)

Dave

[Marc Sabatella]

Folding table leaves are often supported by pull-out or swing-out horizontal supports.


Now, that's clever. I might try to build something like that into the next one. I'm currently finishing up my second, using the lessons I learned from the first, and figure that after a couple more iterations, I'll be ready to crank them out.

One other question I'm curious about: it seems most of these boxes use some sort of plywood for the palette. Yet virtually all plywood that you can buy in thin sheets is not "marine grade", meaning it really isn't supposed to get wet (I guess the manufacturers figure if it is meant to be submerged, you'll probably want something more than 1/8" thick). Is varnishing it enough protection from being used in the occassional rain, or even from the mineral spirits the palette might be exposed to? I haven't had problems with separation thus far, but we haven't gotten any rain, and I don't use spirits...

[Dirt Dude]

Marc: Thanks for sharing your hard work. I'm looking forward to seeing how everything comes together.

A light weight turps option is to use Lab sample containers. The link below is for an example for 1/2-inch or smaller brush.


http://www.milleranalytical.com/VOA_Vials.htm

Each vial is held in the box with an interlocking coated card "caddie". The caddie can be cut and transfered into another small carboard box. The good thing about these vials is that they are chemical resistant and leak-proof for inverted handling.

I like having 6 little (40-mL) VOA vials 3-each for staged cleaning seperating warm and cool colors. I just toss the turp box into my pack and attach it with a 1.5-inch binder clip to my easel when I'm set up. You can also stuff the brush ends into the box between the vials and it makes a fine holder.

[Tony Perrotta]

Hi Marc, I used a piece of masonite for my pallete and painted with a few good coats of acrylic paint in a brown color, I would think that even plywood will last if painted or varnished. I have read though that a unvarnished pallete is preferable to a varnished one in that it will develop a patina and a very smooth surface as it is used more and more. I know that mine with the acrylic paint is nice and smooth. It takes alot of rain or spirit to penetrate the surface if painted or varnished.

Tony

[Lorijo]

Your easel design sounds interesting. I have two palettes, a plexiglas one that is home-made and a masonite one. The masonite I coated with liquin, wiped off the excess with a rag, let it dry and use it like that. Its working well. I haven't gotten it wet though. Lorijo

[manfrommerriam]

Hi Marc:
Well the discussion of the value in this project of marine plywood got me to go look it up on Google. It would seem that there are particular specifications for this and they revolve around marine safety. The specs define quality of wood, number and size of knots, glue type, and a lot more including "core voids". The latter are those gaps in the middle that ruin the appearance of the edges. There is a ton of info on this stuff on the 'net.
I also found a couple of sources in Denver and you might want to go in and look some over. One is Paxton Beautiful Woods and the other is Strait Lumber. They will be in the book, (or try Switchboard.com).

Have fun, :)
Dave

[midcoast]

I have had a few plywood palettes...all have come unfinished. To make a wonderful base finish that is waterproof, do a couple of coats of linseed oil (I usually dilute the first coat with turps). A couple of coats of that, and the wood is ready to go. It will withstand light rain easily, and like today, the occasional blizzard (2 feet and counting as of 5AM!!). And the more often you paint on it, the more glass-like and beautiful the palette gets.

I don't think marine grade plywood is necessary, IMO.

Nancy

[argon]

Now, that's clever. I might try to build something like that into the next one. I'm currently finishing up my second, using the lessons I learned from the first, and figure that after a couple more iterations, I'll be ready to crank them out.

One other question I'm curious about: it seems most of these boxes use some sort of plywood for the palette. Yet virtually all plywood that you can buy in thin sheets is not "marine grade", meaning it really isn't supposed to get wet (I guess the manufacturers figure if it is meant to be submerged, you'll probably want something more than 1/8" thick). Is varnishing it enough protection from being used in the occassional rain, or even from the mineral spirits the palette might be exposed to? I haven't had problems with separation thus far, but we haven't gotten any rain, and I don't use spirits...

Ah....one of the most interesting things that I learned about furniture refinishing is that they very seldom use varnish: it takes too long to dry! Shellac and lacquer are the preferred finishes but there's no reason that you couldn't just seal it with a paste wax and buff it out. Tung oil is another possibility.

I'm going crazy looking for a can of "sanding sealer" that I had in the basement to use to seal pochade boxes that I'm working on...this stuff was a liquid that brushed on, didn't change the color of the wood and left an a hard but almost waxxy finish on the wood. Can't seem to find it right now though.

The solvents used for the various finishes might affect your choice. Shellac is solvent in alcohol (denatured alcohol is the vehicle for it), lacquer in acetone, varnishes and polyurethanes usually in mineral spirits. There are "water based" finishes and some of them are reasonably good looking just as long as you're not looking for a polished furniture kind of finish.

Just about any of them will be water resistant although shellac is known to get "rings" on it from damp glasses being put on its surfac...usually a shellac finish is waxed with a paste wax to help stop this from happening.

best

argon

[Marc Sabatella]

I also found a couple of sources in Denver and you might want to go in and look some over. One is Paxton Beautiful Woods and the other is Strait Lumber.

Paxton is the place that had been recommended to me by my woodworker friend, and they were the ones who told me that I wouldn't find marine plywood in anything less than about 3/4" or maybe 1/2". I am gathering that most people don't worry about this, so I am not going to lose sleep over it, but I will look into Strait - thanks for doing some of my homework for me!

Oh, BTW, my second box is finished, and my concerns about it not being strong enough to hold a turps container are alleviated. I didn't really do anything differently to make it sturdier, but I did this glue the joints on this one instead of just screwing them together, and it seems this helps signficantly in terms of adding rigidity. I had of course planned on using glue in the first place, but held off on the prototype so I could keep experimenting with the design.

The question of finish is still not resolved for me. I have heard claims both ways about the relative superiority of oiling versus varnishing for this type of application, and I'm sure there are indeed advantages and disadvantages to each. But for what it's worth, I've varnished my second box and plan to try it out soon to see how it compares with the first box, which was oiled (just the palette, actually).

Well, since so many of you are curious, here are a couple of photos of the prototype. The few changes I've made to the design are fairly minor construction issues you'd barely notice in a photo anyhow.

Closed:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Nov-2004/29333-front_right.JPG

Open:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Nov-2004/29333-setup.JPG

[Tony Perrotta]

Hey Marc, Your box looks good, looks as I pictured it. Yeah try it both ways, varnish and oil. What kind of wood are you using for the box itself? If it's hardwood, I would just use the oil, or as Argon said Shellac or Tung oil. If Julian can make easels with no varnish yours should be Ok with oil only. It should be oiled once a year by the painter to keep up the finish that's what I do. I use lindseed oil.

Tony

[manfrommerriam]

Marc:
Looks good. Looks competent. Looks like you are having fun. Eh heh, and that one pictured, the second one, accepts a 12x16 inch pallet?
When I was looking at marine plywood the other day, I got the impression it was available in 1/4 inch and is used by home-brew kayak builders in that thickness. I did not see it in 1/8 inch however.

Have fun, :)
Dave

[manfrommerriam]

Marc:
Back again. Well I got to pondering. I've seen beautiful, thin plywoods... so what are they really made for? Bingo, the light flashed on over my head... its for building airplanes.
Take a look at these websites "Aircraftspruce.com" and "sirius-aviation.com/plywood"
Be prepared for a shock, this is costly stuff.

Have fun, :)
Dave

[Marc Hanson]

Hi Marc,

I've been following this and think you've got a great thing going here.

I do have a question/concern to ask about the project though. And it's based on something that for me may be picky, but it drives me nuts with easels. That is a 'wobbly' panel when I'm painting.

So my question is about your panel holder. It looks inventive but with such narrow holding points, does it hold a panel firm so that it doesn't wobble when you are attacking the canvas or panel?

This bothered me on the OpenboxM to the point, with 12x16 and 11x14 panels, that I ordered a left side support arm and installed it so that I now have one on both sides. That made a very stable platform, one that isn't moving when I'm in the middle of scrubbing and jabbing at the surface.

Just a question, I'm guessing that you've already considered that, but the photos cause me to ask. Thanks.

[manfrommerriam]

Marc: After I read over the comments of Marc, (Minnesota Marc, not yourself) I looked at the photos a tad closer and am wondering out loud if 1)the lower panel shelf/support could not be wider, say ten inches? 2) the barn-doors mght catch the wind and flip up. Perhaps you need to dream up something to prevent that. If you did try the table braces idea maybe the brace could wrap around to the top slightly to prevent flipping up.

Have fun! :)
Dave

[midcoast]

Marc - the easel looks GREAT!!! When will it go into production??? :)

On finishes, you could offer potential buyers 3 options: oil finished, varnished, or unfinished.

OR - varnish everything that is not a palette surface (the outside surfaces) and leave the palette surface itself unfinished, allowing the buyer to choose his/her own finish. You could include instructions for both finishes and let them do it themselves. This is what I'd suggest.

Nancy

[Marc Sabatella]

Great - this is some wonderful feedback!

The box is not designed to "accept" a palette - the bottom of the box *is* the palette. And it is 11x14. When I spoke of working in larger sizes, I meant the panels, not the palette. I could build the box larger, of course, but I'm assuming with the wings also available, that's all the palette space anyone would reasonably want, and this is the largest size that has any chance of fitting in a backpack.

Good thought on the possibility of the wings catching the wind. Hasn't happened yet, but that could be just because I put things on the wings that are just heavy enough to keep them down (brushes, tubes of paint, sketchbook, etc). I'll give this some thought.

The question of stability of the panel support is definitely something that concerns me greatly as well. My initial design had the mast supported by a single T-hinge, but it was far too wobbly for my tastes. That's why I am doing what you see in the picture - the mast is permanently attached to what is essentially the back wall of the top of the box, and that entire T-shaped unit is hinged at both sides to the back wall of the bottom of the box. I learned quickly that two hinges are way better than one.

But of course, since the panel is still only supported in the middle, there is a legitimate concern about wobble of the painting on the mast. I *think* I am satisfied that I am handling this adequately in the bottom shelf, which has two protrusions sticking up. Tighten the finger nuts on the back of the shelf and it holds the panel firmly against the mast. That plus the top support, which also is exerting pressure against the panel, and it seems more stable than a typical French easel, which even though it has a larger sufrace area, is still only actually making contact with your panel in the center. Simply making the bottom shelf longer won't really help as far as I can tell, because the panel doesn't sit in a groove along the whole length - I didn't want to sacrifice that much of the painting surface. It has occurred to me that some sort of extenders *behind* the painting to either side could be helpful. As I said, it does seem to me to be stable enough as is, but I plan to have some others around here play with it (Nancy?) and give me their feedback.

BTW, I am reluctant to make design decisions that compromise your ability to leave wet paint on the palette when you close the box. As it is, the way the mast folds it, you pretty much have to have your wet paint on the sides rather than in the middle. I was accustomed to laying out my colors along the back wall of my Open Box M easel, but I adjusted quickly enough to laying them out on the sides instead. You can still use the back wall, but you'd better not use those middle couple of inches where the mast folds, as there isn't a ton of clearance there, and none where the bottom shelf is. The wider I make that mast, or the bottom shelf, the less room there is to leave paint on your palette. The dimensions I've got going right now seem to me to be the best compromise, but nothing's set in stone.

Other comments:

Aircraft plywood *is* what I'm using, as far as I know. At least one store sells it under that name, and although I'm buying it elsewhere, it "appears" to be the same stuff. Anyhow, aircraft is what is specifically mentioned in opposition to marine as *not* being particularly water resistant.

The idea of customer-selectable finishes is good. I had thought of that, too, but putting on my own customer hat, I wouldn't know what to specify, so as the manufacturer, I'd definitely want to have a default that I felt good about recommending. I just bought a jar of boiled linseed oil that supposedly dries overnight and my next box will get some of that. Assuming it goes well, I'm kind of leaning toward doing this by default, just because the thought that varnish might not really be the best surface for a palette still concerns me, and I really wouldn't want to sell someone a box they had to finish themselves unless they specifically asked for that.

Enough people have recommended *against* shellac for palettes that I never gave it serious thought. Drying time of the finish isn't really a concern for me (unless we're talking weeks), and there are apparently some real drabacks to using shellac on a palette - not that I could tell you what they are, exactly.

As for when I'll start producing these for sale, well, that depends on when I'm completely satisfied with the design. Also, each box I make while still experimenting helps my woodworking skills, which were otherwise still where I left them in Cub Scouts. My workmanship is solid enough to not be a concern from a functional standpoint, but frankly, it isn't going to be competing with Open Box M or Guerilla from a purely aesthetic standpoint. Although I do have to say I think the design itself is elegant enough that the box is pretty attractive, to me at least.

Thanks again for all the suggestions!

[manfrommerriam]

Marc: Well I'm probably beating you up on this aircraft plywood; but what I am seeing is that it is made in differing grades and known as GL-1 (the very best), GL-2, GL-4, etc. It is also made in woods with differing qualities.
I found a Finland Birch Plywood that was GL-2 and made with exterior glue.
Then I found this on a website that describes the manufacture of plywood. "Phenol-formaldehyde glues are standard for exterior bonds. With a glue properly formulated for exterior use and suitably employed, no exposure conditions or laboratory testes are known which will degrade hot pressed phenolic glue bonds without destroying the adjacent wood layers.(Baldwin 1981)."
All this suggests a good grade of aircraft plywood should be able to stand up to getting wet now and again. This makes sense as they get parked and flown out in the weather.
Of course, if your wood source actually is marketing to model aircraft builders it might not have exterior glue.

Enough of this nit picking! It looks great. Have fun! :)
Dave

[midcoast]

Marc,

I'd be happy to test out the new easel...just say the word!! I have a couple of paintings in mind, actually. Some panoramics on a canvas too wide for my Open Box M to comfortably hold.

Boy, if this thing can fit in a backpack, you're got a winner!!

Nancy

[Marc Sabatella]

I'm still working on this porject, although other things have come up to take some of my time. One thing that just occurred to me:

Given what I've described thus far, how many people would automatically want to think about putting a separate palette - glass, for instance - in the box, versus just using the bottom of the box? The current design doesn't work great for taking a palette insert, although it could be made to do so with a few modifications that I'd prefer not to make unless I thought it was going to be a deal breaker for a lot of people. Also, are there standard sizes of palettes you'd expect to use, or do you expect to cut glass to size?

[midcoast]

Marc,

I personally don't like carrying glass into the field, esp when I'm looking for a palette to stick in my backpack!! Glass is heavy and apt to break. So the standard size thing wouldn't apply to me either.

Nancy

[manfrommerriam]

Marc: For oils I think you are on target with some sort of a built-in pallet. I personally use watercolors and need a welled, plastic pallet. You could make the thing dimensioned to accept, (and to retain) something like the Zoltan Szabo or one of the larger equivalents and fill two needs with one device. Having said that I have to admit that w/c painters outdoors are a relatively scarce breed today and it may not be worthwhile to worry about us, initially.
Have fun! :) Dave

[cunparis]

I'm researching pochade boxes and palette holders and came across this. I like what I see in the picture, any update Marc? How's it going? by now you must have perfected it. :)

I think you're on to something and your woodworking skills look very good to me. Any ideas how much you would ask for one of these?

-Michael

[Marc Sabatella]

I'm researching pochade boxes and palette holders and came across this. I like what I see in the picture, any update Marc? How's it going? by now you must have perfected it. :)


Maybe not perfected, but I have definitely made quite a few improvements. I've been the third box I built pretty much exclusively since November of last year, usually a couple of times a week, and I am loving it (of course I'm biased).

You can see lots of detail on my web site (see below), as I did start making them available a couple of months ago. I didn't make any announcements here for a couple of reasons. One, until I go through the proper channels to become an Industry Partner and start advertising that way, I am trying to avoid violating the rules against commercial use of these the forums. Second, I have become involved in an unrelated project (music) that I need to devote as much time to as possible until completed - probably another couple of months. So I can't really put too much time into improvements or even building these things in any quantity.

But, since you asked, and my site is rather behind the times, let me give some updates:

- I find I really like boiled linseed oil as a finish. It works very well, looks better than the varnish to me, and from what I understand, probably will hold up to scraping better, and more particularly, is easy enough to repair (if you use walnut oil to clean your brushes and palette, as I do, the surface just gets better and better every time you use it).

- I've done away with the "peg board" style manner of attaching the shelf that holds your painting to the mast. Now the shelf slides up and down freely, with nuts on the back to lock it into position anywhere. Much more flexible in terms of both height and getting your painting level, and easier to adjust as well.

- Since taking the pictures on the web site, I've also improved the mechanism for holding the mast upright to give you more room to adjust the angle and to hold it in position better in windy conditions. I'm not sure how obvious these issues would have been from the pictures, but anyhow, but they're fixed.

- Solving the stretched canvas problem is harder than I would have thought. The obvious solutions all require making compromises I'd rather not make, like making the box deeper. I've jury-rigged ways of getting it to work, but am still not satisfied. Luckily, I don't think this is a show-stopper.

- There is one design issue that still holds me back from wanting to put these into production, even assuming I had the time. There are two places where I use telescoping brass rods (square tubing available at hardware or hobby stores) to get an adjustable-length support assembly. This works quite well in theory, but the reality is, it doesn't take much to get them gummed up with paint or oil or whatever else, and they can become too difficult to adjust. Both of these need to be extended every time you set up and collapsed every time you break down. Mine stays OK because I use it every few days and wipe the rods down periodically, but this feels like something I should address before building any more easels. On the other hand, I do have two unused ones that I've built already that I might be interested in selling at a discount. They don't currently have the improvements I mentioned above, but I can retrofit them easily enough. Contact me offline (marc@outsideshore.com) if interested.