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jbitzel
09-29-2004, 07:57 AM
I decided to try oils last night, and yuck what a mess, it took me forever to clean up. I am so used to rinsing my brushes in water, and the oils just spread the more I scrubbed, I doubt I will be using oils again in the near future. :wave:

King Rundzap
09-29-2004, 08:19 AM
I decided to try oils last night, and yuck what a mess, it took me forever to clean up. I am so used to rinsing my brushes in water, and the oils just spread the more I scrubbed, I doubt I will be using oils again in the near future. :wave:

lol, well, you know that oil and water do not mix :-)

Oil can be really messy at first, but if you keep at it, it will quickly become more manageable. Remember to keep a rag and a small but wide mouthed container of turpentine or a substitute handy to keep cleaning your brushes periodically (I make sure mine has a lid on it, so I'm not breathing fumes all the time, even though I use "odorless" and good ventilation, it's still not good to breathe). I also find the soaps made specifically for painting clean-up very handy. I have the bucket-sized "The Master's Brush Cleaner and Preserver" that I use for clean-up. When you're done, wipe all the paint from your brush that you can on your rag first (I actually just use my clothes for this, but obviously it has to be clothes you don't mind getting full of paint), then swish it around in the turpentine or substitute (like Turpenoid), press the bristles against a hard, dry surface to "squeeze" the turpentine out (I just use the side of my container), then get the brush wet, swish it around in the Brush Cleaner, rinse with water, and you're done. It really only takes me a minute or two per brush to clean up when I'm done.

From friends who moved from acrylic to oils, the most difficult thing at first is remember to not touch the canvas. They're so used to the canvas drying quickly. My wife went from acrylics to oils recently, and the first couple paintings she ended up with oil paint all over a door, the floor, a chair, her clothes (I told her to change into something old and she didn't, lol), her hair, her skin, etc. Now she's got the hang of it already, and barely gets any on her fingers, even.

--King Rundzap

Lady Carol
09-29-2004, 08:53 AM
I used to paint in oils all the time in high school. I don't remember them being terribly messy but I did get paint on some things that my parents freaked out over. The best bit about acrylics is that you don't have to wait forever for them to dry. I don't have the patience for that :)

I have tried those water oil paints and they are a nice compromise between the two, but I still prefer acrylics

Einion
09-29-2004, 11:10 AM
James, this is mostly a matter of familiarisation. Once you've done it for a while and it becomes second nature you'll barely give it a second thought. It's much like when people first take up airbrushing, at first the constant cleaning is tedious but after a while you barely notice.

Anyway, with your oily brushes, wipe the excess paint off the brush on rags or newsprint, swish in solvent (use a brush washer for best effect) and then wash in warm, soapy water and you'll find things a lot easier.

If you'd like to ease into your oils try doing the bulk of your painting in acrylics and then using you oils for glazes and other effects that are easy with a slow-drying medium.


Brandt, since you're new to forums, as a guide let me tell you that people greatly appreciate if you sign with your name if you have pseudonym. I don't know what significance King Rundzap has to you personally but try to imagine a face-to-face conversation where the other person insisted on being referred to as Emperor Maximilian and you get some idea ;)

lol, well, you know that oil and water do not mix :-)
They do if you add a surfactant :D

I make sure mine has a lid on it, so I'm not breathing fumes all the time, even though I use "odorless" and good ventilation, it's still not good to breathe
Low-odour solvents have far higher PELs for a start and if one's studio ventilation is correctly set up - it should move air past you to the work and palette and then the window - you don't even have to worry about breathing any solvent vapours.

I actually just use my clothes for this, but obviously it has to be clothes you don't mind getting full of paint
This is a bad idea for more than one reason. I would strongly advise you not to do this.

From friends who moved from acrylic to oils, the most difficult thing at first is remember to not touch the canvas.
This is so true!

Einion

King Rundzap
09-29-2004, 11:26 AM
Brandt, since you're new to forums, as a guide let me tell you that people greatly appreciate if you sign with your name if you have pseudonym. I don't know what significance King Rundzap has to you personally but try to imagine a face-to-face conversation where the other person insisted on being referred to as Emperor Maximilian and you get some idea ;)


You and I are getting along great so far. :) You can call me anything you like . . . as long as I can figure out that you're talking to me, I'll probably answer.


Low-odour solvents have far higher PELs for a start and if one's studio ventilation is correctly set up - it should move air past you to the work and palette and then the window - you don't even have to worry about breathing any solvent vapours.


That could be. Probably my ventilation isn't set up correctly . . . If I leave Turpenoid open, I usually have some adverse reaction. Although maybe it's psychosomatic.


This is a bad idea for more than one reason. I would strongly advise you not to do this.


(Re wiping on clothing)--what are the reasons you'd advise against that?


This is so true!


Well, that wasn't adversarial, at least :wave:

--King Rundzap

dcorc
09-29-2004, 12:11 PM
(Re wiping on clothing)--what are the reasons you'd advise against that?


I'll back Einion up on that too -

1. large scale skin exposure to the mix of components in oil paints is a good way to generate a contact dermatitis, or possibly a systemic allergy.
2. some pigments (and other components) can be absorbed through intact skin and are toxic.
3. Linseed oil dries by oxidative polymerisation, which is exothermic - your painting pants in the bottom of the dirty laundry basket really could spontaneously combust!

There's no reason to be afraid of oils - or any other type of artist's paint - but your aim should be to get the paint from tube to palette to brush/knife to canvas - while minimising the amount of paint you get on yourself and surroundings.

Dave

King Rundzap
09-29-2004, 12:44 PM
I'll back Einion up on that too -

1. large scale skin exposure to the mix of components in oil paints is a good way to generate a contact dermatitis, or possibly a systemic allergy.
2. some pigments (and other components) can be absorbed through intact skin and are toxic.
3. Linseed oil dries by oxidative polymerisation, which is exothermic - your painting pants in the bottom of the dirty laundry basket really could spontaneously combust!

There's no reason to be afraid of oils - or any other type of artist's paint - but your aim should be to get the paint from tube to palette to brush/knife to canvas - while minimising the amount of paint you get on yourself and surroundings.


Oh, well, I'm not wiping it on my skin (although paint gets on my fingers at times, of course), but clothing. It doesn't go through the clothing (I've checked). I wear a heavy work shirt, and sometimes over a plain t-shirt (which is a good way to tell, beyond just looking, that it doesn't go through the shirt) . No fires yet, by the way, but that's probably helped by leaving my painting clothes in the studio until I intend to wash them, and then they go in the wash by themselves (sometimes actually walking in there by themselves, yes) ;-)

--King Rundzap

dcorc
09-29-2004, 01:22 PM
I'd still suggest to you that deliberately getting paint on your clothing is ill-advised (and unneccessary).

From "The Invisible Art- the legends of movie matte painting"

Albert Whitlock, the matte-painter "dressed nicely at work, in a style inspired by Alfred Hitchcock, who dictated that all his crew be in suit and tie on set. And Whitlock never got paint on his nice clothes"

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Sep-2004/30792-whitlock.jpg



Dave

King Rundzap
09-29-2004, 03:02 PM
I'd still suggest to you that deliberately getting paint on your clothing is ill-advised (and unneccessary).

Dave

LOL, yeah, but I don't see what difference it makes if you're not giving yourself an oil paint mudwrap :-)

What would it matter if you wiped your brushes on a rag instead of your shirt? It may not be necessary to use your clothes, but it's an awful lot of fun :-)

Anyway, we won't make you wipe your brushes on your clothes if you don't want to. Although watch out just in case we decide to sneak up on you!

This isn't me, but here's a photo of someone who has the right idea:

jbitzel
09-29-2004, 03:25 PM
This isn't me, but here's a photo of someone who has the right idea:

Hey I saw that photo in a book called ART SCHOOL a complete painters course by Hamlyn, got it a Michaels for $10 :wave:

King Rundzap
09-29-2004, 03:35 PM
Hey I saw that photo in a book called ART SCHOOL a complete painters course by Hamlyn, got it a Michaels for $10 :wave:

Yeah--that's a good book for that price, eh? And what a great brush cleaning technique that guy has!

--King Rundzap

Richard Saylor
09-29-2004, 04:44 PM
It's all relative. I started with oils and never minded the mess. Then I tried acrylics and got spoiled. The messiness of oils became one of the main reasons why I prefer acrylics.

Einion
09-29-2004, 04:45 PM
I'd still suggest to you that deliberately getting paint on your clothing is ill-advised (and unneccessary).
Hi Dave, I agree with this completely but some people are just incorrigible about things like this :)

Einion

HRH Goldie
09-29-2004, 06:41 PM
Well I've bought lots of art books and can hand on heart say that not one single one has had the amount or sheer class of knowledge that I have been able to get from this website and the forums I choose to drop by.
Einion, as usual perfect sense and lovely to see you in the acrylics forums Dave. Albeit talking about oils! :D Here was me actually going to get some in the next few days now I might not bother at least not for the time being. I'll tell you what I can't wait to try and have a conversation with my 'new vocabulary' of the day. "Oxidative polymerisation and exothermic". You can bet that people are trying to spontaneously combust their laundry baskets somewhere out there :rolleyes: :D


Hi James, I felt so sorry but had to laugh a little at the thought of you relentlessly washing your brushes :p I know it's awful when you've painted for ages and then you have the clearing up to do :(
Good thread though and at least we all have learned something - don't put your pants in the laundry basket after painting in oils ! I think that is so cool (or not as the case may be) Maybe they should put a health warning for pants or the laundry basket on the tubes. :D
This would be one way of getting people to switch to acrylics.

Christine

Enchanted
09-29-2004, 07:57 PM
I'd still suggest to you that deliberately getting paint on your clothing is ill-advised (and unneccessary).
Dave
What a spoil sport you are! I find it much more "revealing" to run around in paint-stained clothing and shoes - as opposed to wearing a clean tee shirt with "I am an artist" stenciled on it. :p

dcorc
09-29-2004, 08:06 PM
What a spoil sport you are! I find it much more "revealing" to run around in paint-stained clothing and shoes - as opposed to wearing a clean tee shirt with "I am an artist" stenciled on it. :p

but surely it's even more revealing to run around not in paint-stained clothing and shoes! :D :p

Dave

Enchanted
09-29-2004, 08:14 PM
but surely it's even more revealing to run around not in paint-stained clothing and shoes! :D :p
Dave
I would never say that!
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Sep-2004/39616-artist.jpg
I never fail to get attention when I wear my painting clothes.

dcorc
09-29-2004, 08:18 PM
Now that's scary! :D

Dave

Yokovich
09-29-2004, 11:51 PM
see what you have started, candienjames?
seriously I like cleaning my brushes! It really doesn't take that long and you got wonderful advise here. Why don't you post your oil painting over in the oil painting forum? (I am recruiting, and since you have survived all those hurricanes you may as well live dangerously!)

Bobbo
09-30-2004, 04:19 AM
it is always the same story........
oil people can't handle the quick drying acrylics
acrylic folks don't like the slow drying oils

i like both,each having their own qualities :)
you just have to give them a chance!
it is good to learn!!!!

but you are right i can't stand cleaning up oils either :D

A Few Pigments
09-30-2004, 05:13 AM
Originally posted by dcorc
3. Linseed oil dries by oxidative polymerisation, which is exothermic - your painting pants in the bottom of the dirty laundry basket really could spontaneously combust!
Iíve been painting with oils for a long time and nobodies ever accused me of having hot pants. :) :D :p :clap:

Enchanted
09-30-2004, 09:40 AM
but surely it's even more revealing to run around not in paint-stained clothing and shoes! :D :p

Dave
If you know anything of the painting methods of Hans Hoffman you know he slathered the paint on with mason's trowels and such in huge gobs, sometimes up to a quarter to half inch dried thickness on the canvas. Now imagine slapping all that paint around while working IN THE NUDE - which he did, apparently. :)

King Rundzap
09-30-2004, 10:25 AM
If you know anything of the painting methods of Hans Hoffman you know he slathered the paint on with mason's trowels and such in huge gobs, sometimes up to a quarter to half inch dried thickness on the canvas. Now imagine slapping all that paint around while working IN THE NUDE - which he did, apparently. :)

Marc Chagall used to paint in the nude, too :-)