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Geniebug
09-27-2004, 10:17 PM
What support do you use? I am a long time lurker but cannot be very active due to being on the road a lot. Which brings me to another problem. I paint (or have painted in acrylics) and would like to begin again and due to the limited space I have I would like to try small paintings. Not necessarily "miniatures" as in "collectors" but just smaller and odd sizes. What support do miniature artists use and if you use board do you cut your own to a specific size when what you want is not standard? Where do you purchase this type of support? Can you just go to the local home improvement store for hardboard, masonite, etc. Or is this not recommended?

Thanks for any input,
Pat :wave:

Lady Carol
09-27-2004, 10:41 PM
Hi Pat :wave: Welcome to the world of the de-lurkers. We don't bite as I am sure you are aware.

You can literally use anything to paint on. My favourite support is paper 300gm2 (something more on the heavier weight side of things). These already come in a host of sizes for the watercolourist. The are conveniently bought in blocks or individually. I prefer the blocks as they are cheaper.

You can also use canvas covered board found at Art supply stores. The paper can also be found there.

I don't find masonite to be particulary cheap or user friendly if you have to cut it.

Just some thoughts. Hope to see some of your paintings inthe near future.

Richard Saylor
09-27-2004, 11:41 PM
As Carol says, paper. If you want an odd size or shape, all you need are scissors. I use watercolor paper, both with and without gesso. Blocks of 140 lb paper are convenient, but I also buy 300 lb sheets and cut them to whatever size I want.

timelady
09-28-2004, 04:14 AM
I have a friend who paints on the offcuts of backing board from a local framer. All the bits that are too small for him to use (which can be weird long bits or even quite reasonable 8x10" or so). Free stuff. :) When I did oils I used to buy hardboard as support from the offcuts box at our big home improvement store - very cheap for a big bit and they'd usually cut it into 2 or 4 for free. Just gesso them and you're away!

Tina.

Geniebug
09-28-2004, 05:35 PM
Thanks Carole and Richard,
I tried watercolor paper once but did not care for it... once you touch the paper you are commited, so mistakes are permanant. I did not try with gesso though.

Which brings me to another question.... how to treat it after the painting is finished. I assume since it is paper you have to frame it under glass like water color, which I have never done. (Well, I have framed cross stitch under glass but not acrylic paintings, LOL) I have watercolors that I played around with but never finished anything. I would not know how to mount it or whatever.

Tina, thanks also to you....
When you use hardboard do you finish off the back someway to "pretty" it up or just leave it plain.

Sorry for all the basic questions. I have always used canvas but it is pretty limited to the standard sizes.

Pat

Bertoni
09-28-2004, 06:38 PM
Pat:
I've even used something as mundane as matboard which can be cut to any size you'd want. I prefer it with a coat of gesso. I would think that these would be ideal for miniatures and usually finish an acrylic with a coat of Liquitex UV clear spray. :)

Geniebug
09-28-2004, 07:15 PM
ahhhh, she says. I never thought of mat board.... thanks Bertoni. We travel in a motor home so space is limited and we sure don't need lots more weight *grin*. When you used mat board did you treat it just as you would canvas, ie: frame, no glass? I had a framer tell me one time that you should NOT put acrylic under glass. He was very adamant when I wanted to frame a piece of canvas along with an old mill sack... I had painted the mill on the canvas. I framed them under glass anyway and they still look good, that was several years ago.

I appreciate all the hints and tips, thanks.
Pat

Einion
09-28-2004, 08:38 PM
Watercolour paper is a perfectly good support for acrylics and you can't get much more portable than that :)

I've also painted many times on hardboard, which in the 1/8" thickness is very light at small sizes. You can sometimes get this cut to size at the lumber yard or wherever you find it but it's thin enough to cut fairly easily with a strong craft knife or boxcutter and a steel straightedge if you need to.

Remember you can paint on unstretched canvas (primed or unprimed) with acrylics - just tack to a board with thumbtacks or chartpins to hold it while you're painting.

Einion

Bertoni
09-29-2004, 05:38 AM
Pat:
When I use mat board...before framing I almost always glue it down on a support of foamcore or another piece of mat board. After spraying with the UV clear acrylic spray, it can be either framed & matted like a watercolor under glass or like an oil without glass (as long as I'm sure to spray it with UV!!)
Einion is right on about the watercolor paper and 1/8" hardboard. They're both terrific lightweight surfaces for an acrylic painting!! :)

Geniebug
09-29-2004, 07:48 AM
Thanks Einion. If you use unstretched canvas do you adhere it to hardboard or something after it is finished in order to frame it? And if you do what do you use to adhere it.... medium?

Good information about the mat board Bertoni. I know the local hobby shop sells scraps of mat board and the color would not make much difference if you gesso it first.

I will probably try some of each to see what I like.... who knows, maybe I will be flexible and go with the flow, whatever grabs me at the time. Then I can have some small, lightweight pictures to fit in odd size places. :D

Have a great day everyone.
Pat

King Rundzap
09-29-2004, 08:35 AM
What support do you use? I am a long time lurker but cannot be very active due to being on the road a lot. Which brings me to another problem. I paint (or have painted in acrylics) and would like to begin again and due to the limited space I have I would like to try small paintings. Not necessarily "miniatures" as in "collectors" but just smaller and odd sizes. What support do miniature artists use and if you use board do you cut your own to a specific size when what you want is not standard? Where do you purchase this type of support? Can you just go to the local home improvement store for hardboard, masonite, etc. Or is this not recommended?

Thanks for any input,
Pat :wave:

If you don't have a lot of space to store paintings (but why store them, get marketing and get selling!) you could easily just do a lot of works on canvas pads--especially with acrylic, you don't have to wait long to start stacking them on top of each other. You can get at least up to 18" x 24", and even that large size works out to less than $2 per canvas. If you want to go a similar route but even cheaper, as long as you have the space to work with it, just buy a roll of canvas and cut the sizes you want. It's just canvas, so you can store it in the same way. You can also paint acrylic on other kinds of fabric (velvet, anyone?), so you could just buy rolls of whatever you like from a fabric store (or any size piece you want) and paint on that. That can give you some unusual textures and unusual colored grounds.

But yes, with acrylic, you can paint on almost anything, as long as the surface doesn't contain oils or waxes (acrylic is almost guaranteed to peel off sooner or later in those cases). You can use cardboard (I do this often enough), plastic, wood (I do a lot of stuff on wood panels, too), metal, regular paper, newspaper, postcards and brochures you receive as junk mail . . . you name it. A good idea for economical purposes if you make a lot of your own prints is to use the odd sized pieces of matboard for a support. I've done that plenty, too. You can also use odd-sized pieces of mounting board.

[later: re the framing question] The stuff I do on matboard and mounting board I frame with matboard, because the pieces with the artwork tend to be odd sizes (sometimes even odd-angled corners), so something needs to fill up the space between the piece and the frame. Again, I just tape it onto the matboard. You could use something more permanent, but I'd rather make it easier to change the framing/mounting if someone wants to change it (or has to) in the future for some reason.

--King Rundzap

King Rundzap
09-29-2004, 08:46 AM
Thanks Carole and Richard,
I tried watercolor paper once but did not care for it... once you touch the paper you are commited, so mistakes are permanant. I did not try with gesso though.

Which brings me to another question.... how to treat it after the painting is finished. I assume since it is paper you have to frame it under glass like water color, which I have never done. (Well, I have framed cross stitch under glass but not acrylic paintings, LOL) I have watercolors that I played around with but never finished anything. I would not know how to mount it or whatever.

Tina, thanks also to you....
When you use hardboard do you finish off the back someway to "pretty" it up or just leave it plain.

Sorry for all the basic questions. I have always used canvas but it is pretty limited to the standard sizes.

Pat

Works on paper you can frame under glass or not. Just buy a normal frame (not a stretched canvas frame), cut a piece of matboard so the opening is the appropriate size, and tape the paper to the matboard, just as you would for prints. I use archival tape for most things, but you could use any kind of tape probably. Just be aware that stuff like regular Scotch tape will probably yellow after many years and may affect the paper on the backside, at least. On the other hand, I have a print taped to a matboard with cheap tape (it's like cheap masking or duct tape) that I bought in Key West about 30 years ago, and it still looks fine.

You can do the same thing with unstretched canvas, or you don't even have to mat or mount it permanently. If the frame is tight enough and the work is under glass (and you can insert a piece of mounting board or foamboard to make it fit more snugly), you can just put everything in position, close it up, and it looks great.

Another option is to "permanently" adhere the unstretched canvas to something like a mounting board or foamboard with the archival tape, and not use matboard. That way you could leave off the glass if you'd like, too.

If you want to make it more literally permanent, you can also mount the work to a mounting board using some kind of adhesive. I use "3M Spra-Ment Craft and Display Adhesive" for some purposes and it works fine. Again, it might be advisable to use something specifically for art (like the Spra-Ment), but on the other hand, you could even use cheap glue and it would work. I had a crazy friend mount one of my early paintings on unstretched canvas to some cheesy cardboard with some commercial high-strength glue spread out all over the back. We eventually changed that mounting, but it was like that for 7 years and there is no visible damage on the front of the work (although it did affect the canvas a bit on the back, and we'll never get all the glue mark off of the back).

Also be aware that some pre-cut unstretched canvas may not go all the way under the corners of some normal frames of the appropriate size (which is one reason I prefer to use glass, etc.)

--King Rundzap

Geniebug
09-29-2004, 02:35 PM
Thanks King Rundzap
Wow! Ok, I think I'm beginning to see all the possibilities. Guess I was just stuck on canvas because that was the way I learned (in my one lesson *grin*) Now on to experimenting, after I finish babysitting today and cleaning up the yard from the hurricanes. Good thing I am retired or I would never get to play :wink2:
Pat

Einion
09-29-2004, 04:52 PM
Thanks Einion. If you use unstretched canvas do you adhere it to hardboard or something after it is finished in order to frame it? And if you do what do you use to adhere it.... medium?
Hi Pat, I don't work this way myself but if I did do this I would only frame or mount the painting to display or sell it. I would store it flat or rolled if space were a consideration.

If you want to mount it on a rigid substrate I would use PVA glue most likely, it's a little more forgiving than acrylic medium.

Einion