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djstar
10-19-2001, 12:11 AM
Forgive me for not stopping in here much, but I am starting to do my homework.
The best thing about being a born again self-taught, is that I can hold nobody responsible for my bad habits or give credit to any small stroke of genius I may show.

Now I come to the cross roads of independence and am about to actually put it on the line and participate in the workshop.
Looking over my SUGGESTED paints, I am about to go into debt -which I am fully prepared to do, it is pretty dumb to not avail myself of every bit of wisdom I can get my hands on, but, as this is the one that stopped me dead - please explain what makes Old Holland so cool and what the advantage is over the usual and normal names, like Aliz. Crimson and Rose Madder.... the ones that DON'T sound like decorator colors but DO sound like color wheel stuff.
This is not smart ssy, it is sticking my toe in where it belongs, not skipping along the side of the pond!
Thanks
dj*

bruin70
10-20-2001, 03:10 AM
old holland is a brand name, like windsor/newton. old holland has a higher pigment ratio than other brands. .....{M}

djstar
10-20-2001, 09:12 PM
I had pretty much figured that out.
What I was interested in was what (as it appears to me) the real benefit of a pre-mixed color is for ditzy students like me trying to get paint onto canvas.
My assumption is that it will be like pastels where you have JUST the right color there and your job is to look for it.

I must admit I am struggling to get out from that "You-Can-Mix-Any-Color-With-The-Right-Primaries" head set, but CAN I MIX ANY COLOR WITH THE RIGHT PRIMARIES?

I must say, it is the BURGUNDY part that is getting me.
I have all these reds and they are a bit like a plague. The ones I have now are so intense and dense, it seems the LAST thing I need in that arena are HIGHER pigmented tubes...

Just me.

But I guess it is sort of a thread on what are the great premixed, just past primary tubes and why should we have them on the pallete?
Is that how this question might be better phrased?
dj*

TPS
10-22-2001, 01:03 AM
Yes you CAN mix any color you want from a good palette of primaries. I've rarely used paints straight from the tube; most all require some mixing. That said, there have been some sets of premixed hues offered in the past. I believe John Howard Sanden had some premixed ones for basic portrait hues. Not sure they're still available. I've also heard of some, who do lots of large works, who will re-tube some of their often used mixtures. Personally I find it much easier to just mix as you go. Once you're familiar with your palette of colors it's not hard at all.

billyg
10-22-2001, 04:22 AM
Hi DJ,
I am primary mixer generally but agree that there are some tube colours that I do buy such as Rose Madder Genuine which I like because of the smell of rose madder LOL. The big question is brand quality and so comes in the loyalty of users.Some say W&N some Grumbacher etc etc. I have gone for guidance and not absolute gospel to The Michael Wilcox Book on paints and to the web site of Handprint.
I think too a note by my favourite artist of today Rowland Hilder when he says that until he looked at the rules of colour and painting and realised that they were there to be broken if he wanted to then that was when he really started to be himself and paint properly.
Do not chastise yourself for what you feel is your ignorance or inadequacy , as I find that there is a lot of joy in the discoveries I make in mixing my paint be it success or failure. Play it again Sam.
Go Girl.and dont forget, Paint like a Millionaire.
Billyg
ps You would have more fun drinking the Burgundy than worrying about its colour or which vinyard it came from ( different colours LOL.)

Patrick1
10-22-2001, 05:16 PM
djstar, I think what you're asking is why use all the fancy colors when you can mix your own with a few well-selected primaries, right?

The reason is because some colors (like alizarin crimson, cobalt blue, and many others)
have certain characteristics that make them difficult or impossible to replicate exactly by any mix of other colors. You can get the relative hue right, but often you'll have different masstone or undertone or other things will just not be the same, such as opacity.

I never had a tube of alizarin crimson, but I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that it's unique in that it has a warmer undertone, while most other colors in the rose region have cooler (more purplish) undertones. Another example is cobalt blue. None of the imitations (usually phthalo blue plus white) have the beautiful depth and glow of real cobalt blue.

From my experience, more colors didn't make me a betetr painter. In fact, relying on pre-mixed colors prevented me from learning to mix colors myself. Honestly, the more colors I bought, the less varied the colors became in my paintings, because I avoided mixing, and ended up with "tube paintings"...paintings in which it's obvious many colors were used straight from the tube.

As a minumum, you'll need a warm and cool version of the three primaries, plus white. Plus a
FEW of the most commonly used convenience colors
(colors which you can mix yourself but are used so often it's nice to have them to save time). For example, in landscapes, I use burnt sienna and sap/hookers green so often, it's best to have tubes of these.


To mix burgundy, try red or magenta plus a little brown like burnt sienna or burnt umber(burnt sienna mixes beautifully with other warm colors). You might also try purple plus orange.


Patrick