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dcorc
09-01-2004, 06:42 AM
This month's Master is Edward Hopper (1882-1967)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Sep-2004/30792-hopper.jpg
(in 1899)

and his painting "The House by the Railroad" (1925) oil on canvas, 61x74 cm
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Aug-2004/30792-housebytherailroad.jpg

(Larger version here (http://www.dcorc.co.uk/housebytherailroadbig.jpg))


I won't post an extensive biography on Edward Hopper, as there's a considerable amount of well-written biographical information at:
http://www.kgny.com/biographies/edwardhopper.html
and
http://www.tate.org.uk/modern/exhib.../chronology.htm

There's an interesting "scrapbook" on Hopper at:
http://americanart.si.edu/collections/exhibits/hopper/index.html

and also see:

http://www.tfaoi.com/aa/3aa/3aa439.htm

and see here http://artarchives.si.edu/oralhist/hopper59.htm for a transcript of an interview with him in which he describes his painting materials and technique.

It should perhaps be noted that apparently "The House By The Railroad" was the first work by any artist to be acquired for the Museum of Modern Art collection!

Hopper's compositional style is based on simple, large geometric forms, flat masses of color and the use of architectural elements in his scenes for their strong verticals, horizontals and diagonals. His themes are plainness, loneliness, and the alienation of 20thC urban life. His Palette is fairly muted.

I'd be interested in specific palette suggestions for this painting - I would have thought a fairly limited palette - perhaps:
white (Hopper used Flake, but Titanium would work)
ultramarine blue
cadmium yellow light
indian red (or a similar red earth colour)
burnt sienna
burnt umber
(perhaps ivory black, though adequate darks can easily be mixed from the other colours above)

A direct painting technique, I think, based on a colour block-in.

Let's get started! :)
Dave

dcorc
09-01-2004, 06:59 AM
A thought - the "drawing" on this is an exercise in 2-point perspective - does anyone want/need a basic guide on that?

Dave

A Few Pigments
09-01-2004, 07:47 AM
I have a question Dave, and I mean this seriously, can you, or anyone in the oil forum, explain why this is considered a great work of art?

5thsister
09-01-2004, 08:14 AM
A thought - the "drawing" on this is an exercise in 2-point perspective - does anyone want/need a basic guide on that?

Dave

Although I probably won't participate this month (this painting gives me the "willies" :eek: ) I am always interested in tips, techniques and such. I've learned so very much simply by following everyone's progress in these threads. In other words, YES...please share! :)

dcorc
09-01-2004, 08:27 AM
I have a question Dave, and I mean this seriously, can you, or anyone in the oil forum, explain why this is considered a great work of art?

Well...erm..er...well..Hitchcock liked it....erm.... :p

To be honest, I don't think it's Hopper's strongest, technically (I suspect it's going to be one of the easiest of the year to copy - famous last words :p ) - but I do think it "hangs together" - and it's clearly very evocative of a mood of menace and forboding - eg:

Although I probably won't participate this month (this painting gives me the "willies" )

I also feel that it's probably the case that it's not just seeing a single Hopper, but the body of work. Certainly, the look has been very influential on filmmakers, as I mentioned in the discussion thread - and also on other painters - Jack Vettriano springs to mind.

Very interested to hear others' thoughts on this - hoping we get some opinions!

Dave

dcorc
09-01-2004, 08:30 AM
Although I probably won't participate this month (this painting gives me the "willies" :eek: ) I am always interested in tips, techniques and such. I've learned so very much simply by following everyone's progress in these threads. In other words, YES...please share! :)

OK - I'll post something on 2-point perspective a bit later this evening (unless anyone beats me to it, hint, hint :wink2: )

Dave

acyaws
09-01-2004, 11:11 AM
I have a question Dave, and I mean this seriously, can you, or anyone in the oil forum, explain why this is considered a great work of art?


It must be because Im weird anyway, but I love it...lol...

Angela :wave:

loop
09-01-2004, 11:22 AM
(unless anyone beats me to it, hint, hint :wink2: )

Dave

2point perspective tutorial
http://www.khulsey.com/perspective_2pt.html

another tutorial
http://www.drawthrough.com/tutorials/

this book "fun with a pencil" by Loomis looks kinda childish at first blush, but has a great section on perspective near the end
http://www.saveloomis.org./fun/fun.htm

5thsister
09-01-2004, 12:29 PM
Thanks Loop! :wave:

Yokovich
09-01-2004, 02:24 PM
I have a question Dave, and I mean this seriously, can you, or anyone in the oil forum, explain why this is considered a great work of art?
This work is "stark" because of the lack of cozy features like bushes and trees or an interesting sky. In my view this is precisely why it is "great"--because he implies mood with his signature strong light and the complete absence of conventional "comforting" symbols. It is difficult to look at Hopper's work and not feel his trademark isolation. Great art evokes emotion--this does that for most albeit it could use a prozac dispenser nearby.. if your desire is to feel particularily happy, Hopper's not your man. IMHO.

p.s. I will be doing this one...after a nice sit down with the perspective tutorial! I really love the creamy colors he used set next to those darks!!..woo woo...

irish artist
09-01-2004, 08:04 PM
I'm game, though I prefer portraits. I need help on ideas about the size of the canvas....what's everyone using? Would this be a good subject to paint on board instead of canvas???

A Few Pigments
09-02-2004, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by dcorc
and it's clearly very evocative of a mood of menace and forboding - eg:
Sounds like my car payments. :eek:

Originally posted by celestia
if your desire is to feel particularily happy, Hopper's not your man. IMHO.
Truer words were never spoken. :)

Originally posted by irish artist
I need help on ideas about the size of the canvas....what's everyone using?
Irish 61x74 cm is 24.02x29.13 inches if that helps. So, I would of used a 24x29 inch canvas, if I did this painting, which Iím not going to do so it probably doesnít matter really, but at least I tried to help and itís the thought that counts. :)

Okay, Iíll take this one off my To Do List of MOMs. Good luck everyone. :wave:

dcorc
09-02-2004, 04:13 AM
Thanks Loop

and here's another couple of 2-point perspective tutorials

http://www.sanford-artedventures.com/create/tech_2pt_perspective.html

http://www2.evansville.edu/studiochalkboard/lp-ex2.html


I'm going to do this one 16x20ins

Dave

irish artist
09-02-2004, 05:40 AM
Thanks for the size ideas. I read the postings about Hopper. He was a gloomy fellow who painted the homes in gloomy ways, rejected other painting ideas of the era, and only lightly considered the impressionists. I can't find anything that suggests mental health but that he stuck to his own style. Maybe he was a forerunner of Wyeth??

loop
09-02-2004, 09:17 AM
this painting is VERY stark, it seems to me it makes a statement about the incropping of the railroad (it's in front) at the expense of nature (where did it go), you know it might be fun to have an analize this thread that goes along with the MOMs (if it's a classical month).


sooooo who's done already :D

DLGardner
09-02-2004, 12:23 PM
I'm not going to paint this one either. I have too many projects going already and frankly, it doesn't fit in with my theme for my October show. (No, my October show is not ghost goblins and warlocks)

I would much rather do his portrait. He's such a handsome young man!

Dianne

bjs0704
09-03-2004, 12:52 AM
Loopís idea of using this for an ďAnalyze ThisĒ could be interesting!

In an interview of Hopper, I remember him saying that it always surprised him that people thought his paintings were stark! ;)

He did do quit a few on the spot sketches, before he did his paintings! The preparatory drawings for his paintings are as fantastic to see as his paintings.

I am hoping to get the sketch for this started, last monthís MOM ďThe Merry DrinkerĒ is still on my easel and I really want to finish him.

This painting of Hopperís looks like it will be lots of fun!

Barb Solomon :cat:

Bioartist
09-03-2004, 11:03 AM
Ok i'll try this (first time in here :o ), anyway question to all - does it have to be "reproduced", I mean do we have to get as close to the "original" as possible, or are we free to experiement a little :p
Thanks for your time,
Stacey

Carey Griffel
09-03-2004, 01:02 PM
Looking forward to watching everyone yet again. :D Stacey, these MOMs are meant to try to reproduce the painting and the artist's techniques...but, if you look at any of the past MOMs, you'll see a lot of people take a lot of licence...and, hey, there's nothing wrong with that! So, bottom line, do what you want (though I have a sneaking suspicion that Dave'll try to make you do it to the letter like the original--he's our British slave driver :evil: :angel: :p --but this place wouldn't be the same without him :angel: :wink2: )...we'll be glad to see it!

I have mixed feelings about this painting. On first glance, it doesn't seem even remotely interesting to me. But, like so many things, the more I look at it, the more interesting it becomes. I don't think it's a "great" work of art, perhaps, but it's definitely better than a lot that I've seen. And it does have atmosphere!

~!Carey

tubbekans
09-03-2004, 09:10 PM
Ok, look at me look at me!
I posted the first sketch! Yeah for me! :evil: ;)
Ok Ok, I will read the perspective links. :(
Maybe they will help me get rid of that tree thing.
Dave said if I keep painting I will get better. He didn't say how long that would take. So I'll be doing this Hopper painting and mangling it in my own particualr style. ;) It is kind of scary looking, but that can be fun too eh?

dcorc
09-03-2004, 09:51 PM
Loop, Diann - so, you are going to have a go?

Dianne - why not have a go at Hopper's portrait? - I agree, he is striking-looking isn't he? - an excellent subject.

Carey - go for it!

Bioartist/Stacey - I'd agree with Carey's comments (apart from the one about me being a slave-driver :p ) - I'd like to encourage people to do reasonably accurate copies - and to do several of the MOMs - because I think that way one can explore/practice a range of different techniques, perhaps learn some new ones - and increase one's appreciation of the specific painters and paintings - but ultimately, what matters is that you get something out of the experience.

Paul - :p I think there are a few minor inaccuracies in your drawing which perhaps need to be concentrated on, before breaking-out the paintbrushes :D Speed isn't everything :p

I'll post a demo of the perspective issues in the morning. :) (and I'll bring an axe for the tree :evil: )

:) Dave

dcorc
09-04-2004, 03:16 PM
This painting uses 2-point perspective - the first thing to identify is the horizon line.

When we stand on flat land, at ground level, and look to the horizon, our eye level is (say) 5ft 4ins above the ground (OK, OK, give me a break, I'm a short guy! :p ) Anyone else in the scene who is the same height will be seen with their eyeline being intersected by the horizon line, whatever distance they are from us.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Sep-2004/30792-persp1.jpg

But, when we look at the still from Hitchcock's Psycho:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Sep-2004/30792-PsychoHouse.jpg

Norman's eye-level does not intersect the horizon, but is markedly above it (in fact, all we can see is sky) - The angle is a little exaggerated by comparison with the Hopper - but we are in no doubt that we are viewing from below.


In 2-point perspective, we treat all verticals as vertical on the canvas:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Sep-2004/30792-persp2.jpg

For objects that have horizontal edges that recede away from us - any edges which in reality are parallel to each other, appear to converge towards a vanishing point on the horizon - if we have two groupings of parallel lines, we will have two vanishing points - like this:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Sep-2004/30792-persp3.jpg

So, we do 2-point perspective by first drawing a horizontal horizon line, drawing all verticals as vertical on the picture, and drawing horizontals within the scene as converging to our vanishing points - the only remaining difficulty is how we decide the positioning of those vanishing points. This gets a little more technical - most pictures will subtend an angle in our field of view of something like 60 degrees at the very most - most buildings have 90 degree corners - and their vanishing points are therefore points on the horizon which are 90 degrees apart - what this means in practice is that one or both are likely to be off the sides of the actual painting. Loop's link:http://www.khulsey.com/perspective_2pt.html gives a way of determining the exact positions of the left and right vanishing points starting from a plan drawing - but in the context of an an easel painting, one's simplest approach is usually to guesstimate, bearing the above info in mind

For those still hungry for more info on perspective, check out : http://www2.evansville.edu/studiochalkboard/draw.html

Dave

dcorc
09-04-2004, 06:39 PM
Just like to show a secret weapon :D

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Sep-2004/30792-rollingruler.jpg

This is a little gadget called a rolling ruler - the cylinder rolls, so that the ruler slides across the surface - an easily way of drawing parallel lines - I'll use it here for the verticals. Certainly not essential, but useful if you're in a hurry, or have difficulties with getting straight lines parallel.

Dave

dcorc
09-04-2004, 08:18 PM
Stage 1 - 16x20ins acrylic "gessoed" board, very lightly sanded. Basic landmarks measued out and drawn in 6B pencil.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Sep-2004/30792-dchouse1.jpg

After photographing, I wiped this with some towelling along the lines to remove as much excess graphite as possible. I'm not too bothered with placements of windows etc, I'll "wing it" with those later - but I am keen that the initial major placements should be fairly accurate.

Next, a block-in, in colour.

Dave

dcorc
09-04-2004, 08:49 PM
Block-in of sky - titanium white, yellow ochre, cadmium yellow light, and french ultramarine blue - slapped on with a big bristle brush, then gone over with a big badger blender - time taken, about 20 mins (info for Loop :p )

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Sep-2004/30792-dchouse2.jpg

Dave

bjs0704
09-04-2004, 11:21 PM
Stacey - I hope that you give it a try! I donít think that anyone would be too concerned with your doing an exact copy!

Paul - I love the sketch! Your tree trunks arenít too bad.

Carey - I hope that you join us and try this MOM!

Dave - You've got a really nice start! And I love the ruler!

Barb Solomon :cat:

tubbekans
09-05-2004, 01:12 AM
Ok, those perspective links are really a help. Thanks for those. Perspective is one of my problems, for sure. Dave's tutorial on it here is a big help also. I think it is starting to sink in a little. We will see. Now I need to find a ruler and start sketch #2.

Barb, maybe if Dave finds his axe you can take that tree trunk home! :-)

dcorc
09-05-2004, 07:13 AM
Barb - good to have you with us too!

Paul - thanks for being such a good sport - one further point about perspective - on the reference photo, it's fairly straightforward to work out where the horizon-line is - all you have to do is find a bunch of lines in the image which would, on the actual structure, be horizontal, and parallel to each other - and extend them until they all cross - that gives you their vanishing point - an if you draw a horizontal line going through that, it gives you the horizon-line. (I've done this here for the "Psycho" photo)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Sep-2004/30792-persp4.jpg

If we are doing this for vertical walls of a building, then vanishing points for any other walls must also lie somewhere along that horizon-line.

Dave

irish artist
09-07-2004, 06:05 AM
I followed the discussion about perspective-very interesting and now to work...plan to post it this week. My canvas isn't true to size and after much positioning and redrawing I've ended up with a larger forground than Hopper, the house is slightly off to one side and guess what-I like it better than if I had centered it the way Hopper did. As for the foreground I'll probably add some weeds later after we're done with Hopper. Diann

paintsplatter
09-08-2004, 10:23 AM
OHMGoodness, I did a reproduction painting of Edward Hoppers work when I was in university. I fell in love with his haunting pictures and to this day I am a serious fan of his work. At the time I used tempera paints and I kept the piece for a very long time but it eventually started to crack and I had to throw it out. :(

Carey Griffel
09-08-2004, 11:00 AM
This painting uses 2-point perspective - the first thing to identify is the horizon line.

When we stand on flat land, at ground level, and look to the horizon, our eye level is (say) 5ft 4ins above the ground (OK, OK, give me a break, I'm a short guy! :p )


Dave, thanks so much for this info! And, hey, you're taller than me. ;) ...Well, at least as long as I'm wearing flat shoes. :D If what I read last night is correct, Michaelangelo was 5'4"...so...we can expect good things from you, right? :wink2:

Seems like everyone's off to a rather late start this month!

~!Carey

irish artist
09-08-2004, 06:07 PM
OHMGoodness, I did a reproduction painting of Edward Hoppers work when I was in university. I fell in love with his haunting pictures and to this day I am a serious fan of his work. At the time I used tempera paints and I kept the piece for a very long time but it eventually started to crack and I had to throw it out. :(

Well, hey! A genuine Hopper pro!! Just what we need. Come on in and show us your stuff. Paint the "House" with us!! :)

irish artist
09-08-2004, 07:47 PM
first washes, to establish values, relationships....

dcorc
09-09-2004, 04:24 AM
Diann - looks good, and I like the way you've adapted it to the taller canvas - it's like the seaside hotel from hell - "only 100 yards to the beach" - straight down :evil:

Dave

dcorc
09-09-2004, 08:06 AM
Scrubbed in the house, with general placements of windows etc in one session - worked on the top of the tower as the next session - trying to keep the "wobblyness" of the original, not get exact and "architectural" - this is just noodling creamy paint about, over the washy block-in.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Sep-2004/30792-dchouse3.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Sep-2004/30792-dchouse3cu.jpg

Dave

Carey Griffel
09-09-2004, 11:00 AM
irish artist! Whoaaaa...I LOVE your version already! I really really do!! I love the addition of space on the bottom; I think that it improves it sooo much!

And Dave, the top of your house is already looking spooky! ;)

~!Carey

Rosic
09-09-2004, 01:32 PM
Diann... love the comp with the added forground... what a drop off. :D

So I said to my suicidal friend... "Hey Cliff, drop on over, we'll talk". :evil:

Dave... Looking great!

I still plan to join the jolly band soon.

Bernie

irish artist
09-10-2004, 05:36 AM
You guys!! But yes, I like it too. After we finish Hopper I plan to make some changes, work on the foreground and sell the thing. Dave's seaside house is something I'd not thought of-I can see the gulls wheeling and crying, the air of mystery, the tall grasses blowing in the wind, smell of the salt-laden air.

artbabe21
09-10-2004, 08:38 AM
Dave doesn't look like you're merely noodling to me! Terrific job!! :)
Thanks for all your guidance......especially the 2 point perspective! :)

irish artist great start....you say it so casually 'first washes' yet they are such a foundation!! :)

Very interesting work to paint but I'll not be participating and dang, I could have really learned something about architecture & 2 point. I'll be traveling this month & will barely have time to fit any painting in. But will enjoy watching yours come to life & encouraging you all! :wink2:

paintsplatter
09-10-2004, 08:35 PM
Oh boy, Irish Artist. Seeing the piece really brings back some very interesting memories. Alas, I can't not participate in this. Although I may admire his work, I can't get into his mood. Isn't the feeling of his work just screaching mood! That's what I call dramatic. I have two pieces in the works at the moment. But I am enjoying the read and the great diversity of interpretations that have already emerged. Very cool!!

Oh, and as far as perspective, whew it's a good one to learn from. :) :)

guillot
09-12-2004, 08:41 AM
Dave, tubbekans and irish artist - Great job so far :clap:

Dave - thanks for the perspective lesson !!!!

I still need to finish the drinker :)

I agree, we all do learn something from doing these. It may be something minimal that you can pick up on, or something greater or insightful. Regardless, you do pick up on "something" from doing these. They have been very helpful to me.

PLUS - I've enjoyed getting to work alongside everyone on these!! It's been great fun, and I think THAT is very important in itself! :)

Tina

Biki
09-14-2004, 05:57 AM
is everybody sleeping on this one.?

get painting.!!!

:eek:

dcorc
09-14-2004, 06:15 AM
is everybody sleeping on this one.?

get painting.!!!

:eek:

pot....kettle.....black....? :D

Now what you really need, in that nice new house, is a copy of "Fawlty Towers" here, on the wall :p

Dave

Biki
09-14-2004, 06:31 AM
pot....kettle.....black....? :D

Now what you really need, in that nice new house, is a copy of "Fawlty Towers" here, on the wall :p

Dave

:D :D :D :D

ya got me there, babe. :cool:

TruEnuff
09-15-2004, 10:44 AM
Hi Folks...
This is my first upload to a forum, and my first attempt at the work of one of the Masters. If it works, you'll see my pencil drawing of this month's project on a 20"x16" canvas panel, which is smaller than the original Hopper painting but proportionally correct. I also used a grid to transfer the major shapes to the canvas. I probably took the drawing a little farther than I needed too, but I was having fun...and learning a little too. Normally I paint directly, without a drawing on the canvas, so this was something a bit different. Since this picture was taken, I have worked on the painting for about 2 hours. I'll post a picture of the progress so far tonight.

Bruce

TruEnuff
09-15-2004, 07:24 PM
After spending about 1 to 2 hours laying out a pencil drawing on my canvas board, I put in about two hours of painting time last night on this month's Master of the month assignment. The pictures below show how it went. I hope with another two or three hours, either tonight or tomorrow night, I should be done. I already feel like I've learned a couple things about Hopper and about my own work as well. To this point, I've enjoyed the assignment immensely.
Bruce

irish artist
09-17-2004, 09:28 AM
Great job, Truenuff, really like the way that looks. I want everyone to know that I'm sidelined with pneumonia and they sent me to a nearby hospital. Looks like I'll be here a while and will have to finish Hopper in October, but you guys pony on, I'll be using the computer in this rec. room to keep track. :cool:

dcorc
09-17-2004, 02:40 PM
TruEnuff - welcome! Great job there, coming along very nicely (from a terrific start with the drawing)

Irish Artist - :eek: Hope you are feeling better soon! At least it's good you can keep in contact with us, see what we are up to! :)

I'm hoping to get back to my version across the weekend.

Dave

TruEnuff
09-18-2004, 11:31 AM
Dave...thank you. I had planned to finish earlier this week, but the best laid plans...etc. With any luck, I'll have some time this weekend. I've enjoyed this little exercise. How's yours coming?
Irish....sorry to hear about the illness. Hospital stays are no fun. Hope you are home and feeling better by the time you read this....get well!

Bruce

Rosic
09-18-2004, 12:01 PM
TruEnuff... looking great! :clap:

TruEnuff
09-18-2004, 10:18 PM
Hi All....
I think I've gone as far as I can with Mr. Hopper's painting...so here's my final version. It represents another 1 1/2 hour session for a total of about 6 hours or a litttle less. I had some real insights as I worked on this....thoughts about how Hopper might have gone about his painting as well as some lessons in value and color mixing. It's the first time I have copied the work of a Master, but it won't be the last...in fact, I am going back through the list of this year's MOM's looking for another candidate to massacre! This is fun! Thanks to all for your earlier comments, and thanks to whoever is responsible for this great forum....I'll have to go back and do my homework to find out who it was, but meanwhile...thanks!

Bruce

Bioartist
09-18-2004, 11:23 PM
Hi All....
I think I've gone as far as I can with Mr. Hopper's painting...so here's my final version. It represents another 1 1/2 hour session for a total of about 6 hours or a litttle less. Bruce
Fabulous - now only if mine looked as good :rolleyes: :envy: :envy: :envy:
Stacey

Biki
09-19-2004, 04:15 AM
Bruce - i thought this WAS Hopper's version.
Wow - you did a marvellous imitation. :clap: :clap:

going back to check on everyone else's now.

paintsplatter
09-19-2004, 03:50 PM
Great work TruEnuff...you've really accomplished a striking likeness. Caught that real spooky mood and the detail...Wow!!..


Ah poop!! IrishArtist..what on earth gave you pneumonia? So sorry to hear that you are in the hospital..Wow!! Hope you get out of there soon!! Get better real quick!!

loop
09-20-2004, 12:28 PM
great version truEnuff


Alright I have held off on this one until I did some reading on perspective (my lesson for the month). Now the Questions this 2 point perspective seems very straightforward, however, in trying to use it I realized I do not have enough room to extend out the vanashing points. How do you do that ?

I tries using a string and standing a few feet away from the painting, and that worked to an extent, but my hands kept moving (vanish point) which threw everything off. how do you make precise lines to a vanishing point that is 6 feet off of the page?

here is what I have so far 20X24"
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Sep-2004/6307-House_by_the_Railroad_.jpg

.

bjs0704
09-20-2004, 10:42 PM
Dave -You did a great 2 -pt perspective demo! :clap: Your rolling ruler is a really nifty little item! I hadnít seen a ruler like that before.

Your house is coming along wonderfully! I love the color in your version
:cool: :cool:

Bruce - It looks great! Youíve got a great start! :cool:

Paul - You have given it a pretty good try! I am looking forward to seeing how your version turns out! I like your interpretation! :cool:

Loop - Your basic drawing is looking really good! It is going to look great when it is done! :cool: :cool:

I have used the ďstring and thumbtackĒ method on drawings. I think that the same procedure on oil paintings.

Sometime though, it seems as if you would need to extend the line quite a distance to actually find the vanishing point. At that point, I think that lots of people will just approximate. (What could you do, put it in the front lawn and extend your stings into the neighborís yard? :wink2: )



I have been preoocuppied with other projects lately.It really feels great to be back painting!!! But I have just finished the outlines and I am reading to paint.

I have finished the outline in vine charcoal and redrawn it with thinned ivory black oil paint. I will post my outline tommorrow.

Barb Solomon :cat:

guillot
09-21-2004, 12:11 AM
TruEnuff - Great painting !!!!

Loop - Looking fantastic too!!

You guys blow me away. Excellent work - all of you !!

Tina

TruEnuff
09-21-2004, 12:34 AM
Alright I have held off on this one until I did some reading on perspective (my lesson for the month). Now the Questions this 2 point perspective seems very straightforward, however, in trying to use it I realized I do not have enough room to extend out the vanashing points. How do you do that ?

I tries using a string and standing a few feet away from the painting, and that worked to an extent, but my hands kept moving (vanish point) which threw everything off. how do you make precise lines to a vanishing point that is 6 feet off of the page?



Hi Loop...
You're right that the vanishing points for most two point perspectives are far off the canvas or drawing board. Architects and illustrators sometimes use a pre-printed perspective grid to solve this problem. These are heavy card stock, sometimes with a plastic coating to permit years of resuse, with a two point perspective grid laid out. The architect simply lays a transparent paper over the grid and uses the preprinted lines on the card below to lay out the structure. These perspective grids are available in drafting supply stores. They usually come with several in a package, each with different assumed vanishing points so the illustrator can pick the one that suits the particular situation to be drawn. The charts are not particularly expensive, if I recall.
I don't think they are really necessary however, at least after a little practice. Your drawing shows that you clearly understand the concept. (Watch the verticals...right now yours appear to slope inward toward a third vanishing point in the earth. Two point has perfectly vertical verticals...unless, of course, you choose otherwise! ) I think the key is always remembering where the horizon is and making sure that your perspective line slopes are relative to that and to one another.

You're doing great...I look forward to the finished painting.

Bruce

TruEnuff
09-21-2004, 12:44 AM
Guillot, Paintsplatter, Biki, Bioartist...thank you all for your kind comments. I had a lot of enjoyment doing this Hopper painting. It came along at just the right time. I was in the middle of a huge artist's block....I simply couldn't force myself to pick up a brush. I went to a couple of life drawing sessions just to sketch, but I was paralyzed when it came to painting. Have you ever experienced that? I don't mean just procrastination....that's one of my regular states of being....I mean a real block..almost a fear. Anyway, I used the Hopper assignment to help break through. And it was fun too!

I'm searching through some of this year's previous monthly assignments for another one to do. Do any of you have a favorite you would recommend?

I look forward to seeing everyone's finished Hopper.....!

Keep Painting!

Bruce

bjs0704
09-21-2004, 11:32 AM
I have finally finished the outline of my "Hopper MOM".

Barb Solomon:cat:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Sep-2004/11410-barbshopper1.jpg

dcorc
09-21-2004, 12:10 PM
Managing to drop in briefly on another machine -

TruEnuff - very nice, and very close to the original. For other MOMs, I think the most straightforward is probably the Magritte, which can be painted with a layered direct technique, as can the Friedrich - the Hals is a little trickier, but the bravura brushwork is just in the finish, really, whereas with the Zorn it's all the way. The Caravaggio is a good exercise in underpainting and glazing, but is therefore very slow. The Raphael is fiddley as it's to all intents a miniature (though you could paint it larger). The Thayer is challenging, but there were lots of good versions done, nonetheless. I think the trick with the Cezanne is to hold off from the temptation to overwork it.

Loop - when the vanishing points are significantly off the canvas, I think most people doing artistic work tend to just approximate it, unless the construction is complex and needs to be accurate.

There's some good stuff on perspective grids (similar to the ones Bruce mentioned) here:
http://www.termespheres.com/perspective.html
http://www.termespheres.com/twopoint_grid.html

Good solid drawing there.

Barb - also a good solid drawing

Paul - how's it going?

Looking forward to seeing next stages - I still haven't got back to mine yet, alas - perhaps tomorrow morning, or Thursday

got to dash!

Dave

bjs0704
09-21-2004, 02:37 PM
Dave - Thanks for the neat perspective links! I have never seen anything about 5 pt or 6 pt perspective. Very interesting! It is amazing all of the things that you can do with perspective!

Barb Solomon :cat:

loop
09-22-2004, 03:59 PM
It is amazing all of the things that you can do with perspective!

Barb Solomon :cat:


I guess it just depends on how you look at it :D

tubbekans
09-22-2004, 10:57 PM
Well, you know the old story of the tortise and the hare? Guess I am going to be the hare (rabbit) on this one. Some thing called work has taken over most of my spare time lately.

You all plod ahead as is, I will try to catch up soon.

Looks like Truenuff has won the race already though! Great job Truenuff. :)

bjs0704
09-23-2004, 10:01 AM
Hereís how my copy is coming along. I have been working on the roof and I have painted in the one section of the house.

I have been having trouble getting sharp edges for some reason. (When I want smudged edges, I canít get them for anything, but now when I need crisp edges I canít get them! :rolleyes: )

I keep tilting the angle of one side of the house also. So I am going along, but the path hasnít been smooth. It has just been one of those days!

Barb Solomon :cat:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Sep-2004/11410-Hopper2.jpg

bjs0704
09-23-2004, 10:18 AM
Loop - I walked right into that one, didnít I !!! :rolleyes: :D

In college, I did several projects involving perspective. I did the distorted perspective that you find in Holbeinís Ambassadors painting. (which if you look to the side shows a skull). I also did an anamorphic painting. It is gridded in a somewhat circular pattern. A mirrored cylinder in placed in the middle of the painting. The painting seems to be an abstract pattern, but when someone looks into the mirror the object comes into focus.

Paul - I canít wait to see your version! You always give it your own personal spin to the painting. :wave:

Barb Solomon :cat:

TruEnuff
09-23-2004, 10:52 AM
TruEnuff - very nice, and very close to the original. For other MOMs, I think the most straightforward is probably the Magritte, which can be painted with a layered direct technique, as can the Friedrich - the Hals is a little trickier, but the bravura brushwork is just in the finish, really, whereas with the Zorn it's all the way. The Caravaggio is a good exercise in underpainting and glazing, but is therefore very slow. The Raphael is fiddley as it's to all intents a miniature (though you could paint it larger). The Thayer is challenging, but there were lots of good versions done, nonetheless. I think the trick with the Cezanne is to hold off from the temptation to overwork it.
Dave

Dave....thank you. My goal was to match Hopper's painting as closely as possible. In trying to accomplish that, I honestly believe I learned several things about how he painted this subject. If I had painted my version of an old house by the railroad instead, I might have missed that lesson.
I'm looking at the Cezanne now with the same goal in mind. I just love the exquisite Thayer, but I am a little intimidated by the subtlety of the muted colors. I certainly don't intend to demean the Cezanne, but the style may be a little easier to mimic. I've been studying it closely and I wonder...was he left handed? (Forgive my ignorance....I don't have any art education, and I have never followed the impressionists) I notice that his painting strokes - especially in the trees - slant decidedly to the left as they descent. It is an awkward stroke for a right hander.

Barb...looking good! Altho I can't see the edge problem you mention in the photo, I'm sure they will gain chrispness as the painting nears completion. I like it. I notice too that both you and loop have somewhat outward slanting walls.....and it's a neat effect, lending to the mystery and drama.


Tubbekins....Thanks for the kind comment...but in art, the medal doesn't go to the first to complete...lol.... :D I am so enjoying this...and watching everyone's work progress.

Bruce

tubbekans
09-26-2004, 10:59 PM
I keep tilting the angle of one side of the house also. So I am going along, but the path hasnít been smooth. It has just been one of those days!

Barb Solomon :cat:


Hi Barb,
Are you talking about the left side wall angle being tilted?
Mine is too. But I think that's kind of right. I used a computer printout of the edges and transferred it to the canvas using charcoal onto tacky paint. I think Dave suggested that method, and it worked great. Thanks Dave! But I got a slanted angle on that left wall too, as you can see in my first image with just the background.

My 2nd image is just getting started. It is a little further along now but pics don't seem to work well at night. At least I made some progress finally.

I have a comment and a question on this painting.

1) comment: It seems like the peak of the roof should have some kind of pointy top. Like a pyramid shape with a lightning rod on it. Seems a bit strange to have a flat roof up there.

2) question: How are you all planning to paint the area of shade on the top floor windows? Would you paint the whole window area, let it dry, and then do a glaze over the shaded area?

Or paint the whole area with separate color mixtures?

Ok, that's it for me this weekend.

Thanks all!

Ok, added 3rd image of shaded area I was asking about. It's the area with the shadow making a diagonal line across the windows.

bjs0704
09-27-2004, 11:09 AM
Paul - Hmmm, While I suspect that I was having one of those days where somehow I never got the ruler in alignment, it would be nice to believe that I was just simple copying the angle that I saw in the original.

I do know that this weird roof shape was a fad in the late 1800ís. I have been working on the same section that you are asking about. The color of the shadow areas is interesting. Itís kind of gray and sort of a khaki tan. I am finding touches of blue in the color, but only a hint. Glazing might work. I was going to do it once in the general color and go back in again with some of the same color, while it was wet I was going to blend in touches of the other colors. By blocking in first, I will have a pattern to follow and can work more quickly to blend in the other colors. I have been having to go paint more than one layer in many parts.

Your painting is looking really good! You are doing a good job on it!

Barb Solomon :cat:

loop
09-28-2004, 05:19 PM
In college, I did several projects involving perspective. I did the distorted perspective that you find in Holbeinís Ambassadors painting. (which if you look to the side shows a skull). I also did an anamorphic painting. It is gridded in a somewhat circular pattern. A mirrored cylinder in placed in the middle of the painting. The painting seems to be an abstract pattern, but when someone looks into the mirror the object comes into focus.
Barb Solomon :cat:

I would really love to see those. I saw one, where they painted on a bridge, you know a fool the eye type, well there this one archway that had some strange design in it, but if you went into a certain room in the bridgebuilding and looked out the window it was an angel. The windows looked at the bridge at quite an extream angle.

how do you do that ? , like the skull in Holbein's ??

Yokovich
09-28-2004, 09:08 PM
greetings fellow MOM-sters...This is where I am right now--I have drawn my building and am now blocking in the big shapes and shadows. As you can see I am pretty confused about what colors to make my big shapes and shadows so I am all over the board color-wise and hope to paint the correct colors over my underpainting tomorrow. (Feeling confident that our Mister Hopper did not paint this way..lol) Anyway next round I might paint from the computer screen instead of my print out..this is part of my excuse...er, my confusion---because my print out is not as true to Hopper's colors as looking at in on the monitor. It all took me forever, I hope I will finish during September! (this is HARD!!<----read that with a valley girl dialect and elongate the last word)----lol!! wow, looking at it here it looks like a watercolor--but it is oil on 16 x 20
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Sep-2004/33531-hopperthang.jpg

TruEnuff
09-28-2004, 10:05 PM
greetings fellow MOM-sters...This is where I am right now--I have drawn my building and am now blocking in the big shapes and shadows. As you can see I am pretty confused about what colors to make my big shapes and shadows so I am all over the board color-wise and hope to paint the correct colors over my underpainting tomorrow. (Feeling confident that our Mister Hopper did not paint this way..lol)


Celestia.....this is really coming along nicely. I love your drawing and faithfulness to the original Hopper. Excellent start.

I thought a lot about the colors as well when I was doing my version (posted earlier). I really got the impression that Hopper painted wet into wet, especially in those big shadow areas on the front wall of the house. I felt that he used the same process in the sky...particularly the upper right corner of the painting. In both areas, it seemed like the basic tone of the walls or the sky - a kind of light yellow ochre - had been painted into with blue, and that wet into wet mixture resulted in the greenish cast that is evident (at least in my printout!). It seemed like later, in some of the darker areas, he came back and worked more blue in...under the front porch roof and the underside of the eaves in the higher roof areas, for instance. I'll never know if any of these guesses are even close to right, but it seemed to work out for me.

Great job. I'm looking forward to the finished work!

Keep painting!

Bruce

Yokovich
09-28-2004, 10:57 PM
Bruce! that makes sense! I really had a hard time trying to keep my sky from being green ---and his greenish front really has me buffalo-ed--thanks for your input..I bet you are right about wet into wet. He sure had great control..I felt like he used nice big confident strokes despite the smallish areas! thanks again for your help (your result is wonderful!) --back to it tomorrow

bjs0704
09-30-2004, 12:28 AM
Everybodies work looks so good!!!!

Loop - I will put something up on another thread showing one of the distorted perspective drawings.

Iíll be sure to show Holbeinís trick!

Celestia - I think that I may even like your color better than Hopperís. It is very bright and lively.

I also found it tricky to keep the sky from looking green. (The same color the sky turns during tornadoes!!!!) It just wasnít quite the color that I wanted.

Hereís where I am now, I have been doing windows for the last couple of days.

Barb Solomonhttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Sep-2004/11410-38069-Z_puppy3.gif

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Sep-2004/11410-Hopper3.jpg

loop
09-30-2004, 04:58 PM
I FINALLY had a chance to do some painting :cool:

here it is so far. I did the sky (except for the area where the porch supports are, cause I forgot :rolleyes: ), let that dry and did this basic block in. I can see I need to get the floorjacks for the east side of the porch :D . I tried to get the colors close and just scrubbed them on, darks first, it's pretty thin....it's been a while since I've painted a house and it's nice to not need A ladder, but it seems harder than I remember .

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Sep-2004/6307-hoopperWC.jpg

.

bjs0704
09-30-2004, 08:22 PM
Here is a link to my anamorph, that I was telling you about earlier!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219743

Barb Solomon :cat:

Yokovich
09-30-2004, 08:57 PM
Here I am on the final day of September with my Hopper copy..I really liked doing this even though I think it has problems. I am certainly not accustomed to painting with this much detail! I felt a little of what it must be like to build a model!! LOL!! anyway--it was a very beautiful day here in Portland Oregon--this is how I spent the last couple of hours..in my back yard, scroll down for my final Hopper! I will try to straighten out a few things in it tomorrow..Thanks for choosing this--I really feel I learned alot from the experience!
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Sep-2004/33531-hopperinyard.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Sep-2004/33531-hopperfinal.jpg

bjs0704
09-30-2004, 10:19 PM
Celestia - It's looking really good! Your painting has turned quite nice! I love the touches of bright color that you have used.

Your painting set up looks like paradise!

Barb Solomon :cat:

Yokovich
09-30-2004, 10:42 PM
thank you Barb! for one thing my railroad track is "warped" lol--I will straighten it out! :)

TruEnuff
09-30-2004, 10:58 PM
Celestia and Loop.....excellent work both of you. I'm impressed with how faithful both of you have been to the original...and therefore how alike your paintings appear! Both have captured the haunted lonely feeling of the Hopper painting.

I was also surprised at how much detail there was in the Hopper...it just didn't seem like it until I got into it. I found that I spent quite a while with a pointed sable at the end....never would have guessed that!

BTW...have either of you guys figured out what the small dark triangle behind and at the bottom of the left side of the house is???? I finally decided it must be another roof....on this house or maybe a neigbors...or maybe.....?? but I couldn't figure out why he would have painted it in since it's such a strange little blip....or is it? Could that be what my paintings are missing? Strange little blips?

Nice job, Celestia and Loop...

Keep Painting!

Bruce

Yokovich
10-01-2004, 11:21 AM
thanks Bruce for your encouragement! --No, I don't know what the blip is (and I do remember wondering, but how funny, I omitted it! lol)

loop
10-01-2004, 04:31 PM
"have either of you guys figured out what the small dark triangle behind and at the bottom of the left side of the house is????"


"I smell a fresh soul for my fruit-cellar"

I'm guessing it's one of those above ground cellar doors with the double doors and stairs??

dcorc
10-01-2004, 06:19 PM
"have either of you guys figured out what the small dark triangle behind and at the bottom of the left side of the house is????"


I smell a fresh soul for my fruit-cellar

I'm guessing it's one of those above ground cellar doors with the double doors and stairs??

Yes!

I'd better have a go at this painting now! :o :p

Dave

dcorc
10-01-2004, 06:38 PM
Celestia - that's really come together very nicely :clap:

Loop - looking good, nice and solid!

Barb - coming along well too - don't get too bogged down in all those windows!

Paul - a very good start there, you going to manage some time on it again this weekend? About the shadow crossing the side window - personally, I'd be inclined just to paint everything in this painting opaquely - but if you are happier glazing it, that's fine too - from the interview, Hopper seemed to keep the technical aspects of his work pretty straightforward, very pragmatic fellow.

Dave

loop
10-02-2004, 11:52 AM
Hopper seemed to keep the technical aspects of his work pretty straightforward, very pragmatic fellow.

Dave


The KISS (Keep It Sipmple Stupid) rule seem to apply nicely to painting for me.

tubbekans
10-03-2004, 08:45 PM
Hi all, Time to post a progress pic.
Well I am getting a little further along. October seems like a more appropriate month for this painting somehow.
Thanks for the advice Barb, Dave, Loop. Looks like that window can wait a little while to me...

Thanks, Paul

guillot
10-03-2004, 09:09 PM
Hi Paul - yes - it does seem more appropriate for October with Halloween and all, doesn't it? Kind of eerie feeling from this painting - something from like "psycho" or something, :D .

Great job so far - I commend all of you on your efforts on this one!! I didn't have the time in Sept. for this one. Job prevailing - But moving on myself in an effort to get back on track. These activities have helped me to grow tremendously !!!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

You guys ROCK !!

Tina

bjs0704
10-03-2004, 11:51 PM
Paul - It has really turned out great!

You have done really well with that tricky shaped shadow on the side of the "tower"! It is really an all around good job!

Barb Solomon :cat:

tubbekans
10-25-2004, 08:51 PM
Ok, scary painting attached. :evil:

The railroad finally came to town on this one. I don't know why my camera makes the track look kind of curved. Oh well. I actually lurnt some stuff on this one! I used Bill Martin's glazing technique (from his glazing article) on the front bay walls. And of course much helpful advice from Dcorc and others here didn't hurt things at all. I was pretty inimidated by this painting, but I think it came out reasonably Hoppery. Not extremely Hoppery, but reasonably.

Thanks all for your support! ;)

Jaysen
10-25-2004, 09:07 PM
You've captured Hopper's cold mood very well.

robertmeredith
09-11-2006, 09:27 PM
Why is this painting great? This painting is great first of all because it is a major painting by one of the great masters of 20C art and is supported by a body of paintings of great strength created over the lifetime of the artist. It is instantly recognizable as an Edward Hopper. It is iconic, it stands alone in art ,there is nothing else like it. It is a simple , complex, monumental visual image that evokes a response from the viewer. You may like it or dislike it but you can not ignore it.

What is great about this painting? The sky is great. The little black triangle at the lower left corner of the house is great. The novelty of looking up at the house from over the railroad track is great. The red chimneys that echo the red of the railroad track are great.

Let me ask you a question. What is there about the painting that is not great? Bob