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hoski
08-31-2004, 07:41 PM
Hi all
Iīm having a problem with a painting Iīm doing, Acrylic on canvas 60x45 cm (about 24x18 ince).
Iīm doing it from imagination, was hoping to achieve colourful autumn foreground, with a foggy background, but I donīt think it is working...any idea of how I can fix this. Might paint over the background and do it different, but how :confused:
Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers
Hoski

Artguy29
08-31-2004, 08:07 PM
Hoski, your foreground starts way too early. There is no transitional space between your backgound and foreground; in other words, no middle ground. Try adding a middleground keeping the same style as the background only have your colors get slightly darker as you move forward. When you have your middleground in place, you need to have a much smoother transaction. Your foreground color is much too bold at the begining. Slowly build up to that darker value. Keep some of the fog at the start of the foreground and slowly use less and less of it as you move forward. That should give you a better foundation to work with. Hope this helps,

Dave

Lady Carol
09-01-2004, 10:09 AM
You also might want to have a look in the reference library for some pics that may give you ideas as to the graduations in colour from back- to foreground.

hoski
09-01-2004, 05:52 PM
Thanks Dave and Carol for the tips, will keep it in mind, although my mind is :confused: :)
might try to add a middleground, could it be a small hill which intervene both the foreground and the background and what do you mean by bold foreground Dave, is it the colour or the brushstrokes?
Maybe it is not so foggy, rather a little misty the background, maybe that is part of the problem?
Will post something when I get to painting again, been busy, but should get to it in the next couple of days...Thanks again :clap:
Hoski

Artguy29
09-01-2004, 06:05 PM
might try to add a middleground, could it be a small hill which intervene both the foreground and the background and what do you mean by bold foreground Dave, is it the colour or the brushstrokes?

The brushstrokes at the start of the foreground are well done, very subtle, but, as I said, they start too soon. I meant the color is too bold. A small hill might work, but remember to carry the mist/fog through, while slowly using less and less of it as you move torwards the foreground. Before you do any serious painting, I would suggest using a very faint, thin color that can be pushed right into the painting without showing through, to sketch in your middle ground. This way, if you make a mistake, you can just push it away.

Dave

hoski
09-02-2004, 05:37 PM
Thank you Dave, I donīt want to sound too stupid, but bold colours are bright colours...isnīt it (my little dictionary doesnīt cover that :))

Anyway, here is a little update, not quite there yet, but decided to give the hills a go, havenīt updated anything else yet, might try to add mist to the middle ground, and slowly make it dissappear, I might even make the mist thicker in the background.
Cheers
Hoski

Artguy29
09-02-2004, 06:57 PM
The hills really make this work! They give a nice transitional space between the background and middleground. Bold can mean many things, but in this case it was the bright, intense colors, as you said. You've done an excellent job dulling out the middleground; well, now you have a middleground! Keep at it, it's getting much better.

Dave

ExpressiveAngie
09-03-2004, 07:30 AM
I cant really offer advise, i am too busy asking for it too :wink2:
I did want to cheer you on tho and let you know I am looking and would love to see you finish it.

hoski
09-05-2004, 01:26 PM
Thank you Angie, I will still give this one a chance so hopefully I will post a final painting at some point :)

Here is a little update, not much since last time, but Iīm having real trouble with deciding what to do next.
I havenīt found any good sheep models :) so Iīm not sure if the sheep is right, and also the overall feeling about the painting, somebody who saw the painting thought I had put the houses in the background in an ocean :confused:
Well anyway, here it is like it is right now, and a zoom on the sheep (terrible I know)...
Hoski

mrs willow
09-05-2004, 04:45 PM
Hoski, I would bring the houses down so that they are just visible (much lower and smaller) between the gap in the hills! THEN, I would make all the area where the houses are now into sky, with clouds etc.
You are doing very well for a first painting! Keep going it is getting there!
Cheers Sandy

Artguy29
09-05-2004, 05:50 PM
Great advice, Sandy! You may want to give that a shot, Hoski. That may help your prespective problem slightly. You're coming along well with this.

Dave

hoski
09-06-2004, 05:40 AM
Thank you both, will give it a try itīs an excellent advice.
And Sandy, maybe I should keep making you think it is my first painting, but it is more like a first painting out of pure imagination, I mean with no reference material :D have painted more then this although Iīm a newbie in a sence, which shows :)
Cheers
Hoski

hoski
09-06-2004, 09:43 AM
Hi, I decided to do a little photoshop work on my painting before starting, using the ideas from Sandy and also put a picture of sheep on...well at least this is an idea, what do you think?
Hopefully I can get the sheep right, which should be the center of interest in the painting :cool:
Cheers
Hoski

Artguy29
09-06-2004, 10:08 AM
This composition looks much better. Keep playing around with it before you start painting.

Dave

mrs willow
09-06-2004, 05:27 PM
Looking much better Hoski!
Perhaps move the sheep further to the front of the composition, so that everything doesn't happen in the middle. I.E. sheep and buildings all a bit close to each other.
Remember to make your buildings smaller as they recede into the distance.
You are doing well!
Sandy

hoski
09-07-2004, 06:42 AM
Thank you Sandy and Dave, will keep that in mind. I will probably put this painting on hold for a couple of weeks or more, since Iīve allready started another one that takes my mind right now, but when I start again I will post it here...
Cheers
Hoski

HRH Goldie
09-07-2004, 07:02 AM
Hi Hoski don't despair! :wave:

We are all learning here. We all learn by our mistakes. I learned pretty early on the better the artist the better they are at hiding or not showing their mistakes. Kudos for showing us and wanting to learn more. :clap:
I would offer only this advice. Try and use reference material as much as possible until you are comfortable painting a subject and are able to get the effect you want.
I paint very rarely without reference material and you are still able to put you own interpretation on a subject and show your personality through your imaginative rendition.

Above all else if anything you paint gets you down and makes you miserable - put it aside for at least one week then look through fresh eyes. You might be surprised.

Christine

hoski
09-07-2004, 08:12 AM
Thanks Christine
You are right about the reference materials, it was not totally clear in my mind what I wanted, but as you say, maybe I will be able to fix some of those problems next time I tackle them :)
As you see on the progress of this one, I can be really slow, but it is mainly because I donīt paint as often as I want becouse of lack of time (my time machine doesnīt work right now :cool: ).
I will come back tonight with a new WIP painting and Iīm sure I will work faster on that ;)
Anyway thanks for commenting
Laters
Hoski

hoski
11-20-2004, 05:09 PM
Well I decided to do something about this painting and just cleared away all the sheep and landscape, but kept the foreground ... so now it looks like this, any pointers? as I have no idea where this painting is heading :confused:
cheers Hoski

Artguy29
11-20-2004, 05:42 PM
Glad to see you got back to this!
I think the biggest problem here is the sun. It is much too bold in color, making it appear as though it was just 'stuck onto' the sky. I'm also concerned about the placement of the sun. You have it directily in the center of the sky, which is throwing off your prespective.
The fog (if that's what it is) seems to take a sudden stop. Not sure how to place it, but the way you have it placed now is rather misleading.
The rock on the right is very well done, but I'm not sure about the one on the left. I see that you don't have much detail on the left rock, because it is furthur back than the one on the right. This is also misleading because the planes on which they are in are too close together for there to be that much of change in the amount of detail. I've noticed that both rocks are about the same size, though the one farther back should be slightly smaller than the one in front. I'm also not sure about your composistion of them: one on the left and one on the right with a small distance between the two. Maybe if you had the distance between planes larger, this composisiton might work.
I don't know where this is heading either, but I'm sure you'll think of something :) .

Dave

HRH Goldie
11-20-2004, 08:16 PM
Hi Hoski, nice to see you haven't given up on it and giving it another go with those fresh eyes. You see already you have come up with a different idea and concept.
I am glad you kept that foreground as it is really unusual. As for the painting as a whole you seem to be leaning towards the abstract side of landscape which is absolutely fine. If it is abstract landscape that interests you then all of your paintings components work. In abstract it is nice to have a certain amount of ambiguity going on - at least that is my opinion. It provides discussion and debate as Dave has already shown.
In the context of the whole painting I think the sun works fine as does the rock faces on either side. The foreground and the bold colours used here nicely lead into the main body of the painting.
I am sure you have already learned alot by this I think your first isn't it so no doubt you will be excited to start many more. :clap: :clap: :clap:
What I like most of all is that you have been expressive and not bound by convention, yes it has naivety but yet it says so much. I would say leave this one now Hoski, pat yourself on the back and move onwards and upwards.
Well done. :wave:

Christine

Mark Newton
11-20-2004, 10:47 PM
Hi Hoski

Great to see this one coming along. I paint from imagination all the time, hardly ever using reference unless someone asks me to do a photo. Painting scenes from imagination is a lot of fun and just requires a bit of practice and when you achieve it, will make painting so much easier for you. It's a bit like playing music from ear, rather than having to read it. In this case your ear is your mind, you see roughly what it is you want in your head and then play it with the paint so to speak. If you constantly rely on reference photos you may not develop the natural understanding of 3 dimensional depth as much as you could have. What you have done here is develop a 3D image that at first was quite flat and this is excellent, you have created a 3D world by using feedback from your work and that is exactly how it is done.

I would back off the sun here, so it's not so big and well defined, this will give the sky even greater recession. The foreground rocks in this painting, it really pops out which is excellent and I love the lean back into the painting of the plants.

When I get to this stage I study the painting and look for natural progressions from foreground to background. I can see one here. I see what could be water right behind the veg at middle ground, its the highlight areas. This is excellent as it catches the eye. This could be used to create a path leading around the open LHS to help fill the void of the LHS into the background. I would create a creek/river from this water area into the background and this will give the nice transition to finalise the composition.

The pic included gives some idea of what I'm on about....:D

hoski
11-21-2004, 09:57 AM
Thanks all for your help, I will have to think about it a bit, but I liked all your comments, I might give the sun a miss, like Dave and Mark suggested or I might keep it like it is, like Christine suggested. I will have to put my head in cold water for now (an expression for thinking :))...
Anyway, will post again on this thread if I change it more.
Cheers
Hoski

debimari
11-21-2004, 06:20 PM
Hoski... I have been reading through this thread..... Love that you are sharing the transitions of your painting!... would love you to post your final compostion ... when it happens !....
:) debi

mrs willow
11-23-2004, 03:45 PM
Good to see you back and into it again Hoski!
I know what you mean about putting your head in cold water. I often find it best to put it (the painting) away and then "catch IT by surpise when IT'S not looking" I then go by my initial reaction.
I like the mystery of Mark's version.There seems to be a sense of something about to happen. The grasses remind me of a crowd....waiting and waving.
Sandy

hoski
11-23-2004, 05:11 PM
Yeah, I like Marks version to and it gave me an idea, it wont be the same, but I have a plan, right after I have posted this answer I will dive in it again, for now I'm thinking about doing it really fast, the sky and the rocks on the left, kind of wet in wet... the sky with a hint of yellow and the rock really blury (and smaller) and not touching the foreground and the rock on the right.
Hope that works :)
Will come with a result in an hour, stay tuned :wave:
Cheers

hoski
11-23-2004, 06:08 PM
Well here it is again, have change it a bit but it is still open for debate. Should I do something more, or should I keep it like this and move on :confused:
Cheers :cool:
Hoski

Artguy29
11-23-2004, 06:13 PM
Hi Hoski,
Excellent job on the background! My only suggestion would be to bring some of the atmosphere of the background into the foreground, just to tie the painting together.

Dave

hoski
11-23-2004, 06:19 PM
Hi Hoski,
Excellent job on the background! My only suggestion would be to bring some of the atmosphere of the background into the foreground, just to tie the painting together.

Dave
Hi Dave
Do you think it would work to add some white (light blue) mist, perhaps from just over the bottom right and diagonal into the middle? just a hint within the branches (straws)?

Artguy29
11-23-2004, 07:40 PM
Hi Dave
Do you think it would work to add some white (light blue) mist, perhaps from just over the bottom right and diagonal into the middle? just a hint within the branches (straws)?

Sounds good :) . Just be sure not to ruin the beautiful branches (straws) that you have achieved in the foreground. I would suggest having a mixture of that color handy in case you cover too much.

Dave

Mark Newton
11-23-2004, 08:36 PM
Well here it is again, have change it a bit but it is still open for debate. Should I do something more, or should I keep it like this and move on :confused:
Cheers :cool:
Hoski

Hi Hoski. If I was you I would leave it and start a fresh one, practice is what it's all about. Next time look for subtle changes that can be built on and developed if you can, rather than completely reworking, it will take you deeper.

This one looks all right with the brigther colourful sky, it has given it a very different feel to the first sky.


Cheers :wave:

hoski
11-24-2004, 08:46 AM
Here is a photoshopped idea of the finished product... and look, I added a sheep :) still only an idea, will probable make a final painting later today or tomorrow and then I will move on :)

HRH Goldie
11-24-2004, 09:41 AM
Hi Hoski,
A little bit of advice from someone who has fallen many times into the trap - Do as Mark suggests and take what you have learned and go onto a new painting. Else you will perhaps changing this, I have done this many times and the hardest part of painting is knowing when to stop. I would suggest that you were happy with the painting at the last stop point and it was only at someones suggestion that you now are thinking of changing again. There will come a point where you will regret doing so and getting the painting back to how it was would be almost an impossibility. You finally got what I think you were looking for, a nice composition with a contemporary slant.
A point to take on from this one is as Dave says to tie one area in with the other. The simplest way of doing this would be via colour and not making any structural changes, if that makes any sense. The red and green of the foreground are both strong vibrant colours, and rightly so as the foreground will always be a stronger colour. You could use small touches of these colours in the middleground at a tone slightly lighter and then if need be a good deal lighter but in the same colour range for the far ground.
That doesn't mean go and do it with this lol! Merely showing that there are alternative ways of tackling problems.
On the whole well done and personally I wouldn't add the sheep on the rock top :p :wink2:
:clap: :clap: :clap:

Now tell us what Hoski is planning to do for the next painting.

Christine

hoski
11-24-2004, 01:18 PM
Hi again
Christine and Mark, thank you both for the advise, I think I will move on now, and keep the painting as it is, so the final outcome can be seen in the attachment... therefore skipping the sheep :D
Next thing to do, I guess is to find a good reference photo and do something completely different... :)
Thanks again all, for the advise
Cheers
Hoski

Mark Newton
11-24-2004, 06:24 PM
Good choice and good job Hoski. The exciting thing about painting is the next one I reckon.....get on with it!
cheers :wave:

HRH Goldie
11-24-2004, 07:58 PM
Ditto to Marks comment - I am pleased you have made IMO the right decision here.
Paint what you feel you would like to paint. But keep it simple and don't get bogged down with technical or complicated stuff and let's see what materialises.
:wave:
Don't forget to post though. :wink2:

Christine

hoski
06-08-2005, 07:04 PM
Well I've had this painting now on my wall for few months and there is something I want to change in it, something about the foreground... I digitally altered it and was wondering what you would think, if I change it to something like that?

Before is the one with the colourful grassy foreground, the other is what I think I want... is it to dull if I change it to that?