Female Portrait ~ Customer Advise Please

[tess2000]

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This is a 36" X 40" oil on stretched canvas female portrait. I just finished this one and the client is very pleased with it as is and says "Don't change anything its fine. Looks just like her." He had asked me to change the hair color because she is a lighter strawberry blonde now and take out the space where her hair is split at the shoulder and fill that in with more hair. That was the only changes he wanted.

However, I'm not happy with the nose as to me it looks more "plumper". There is a couple more things I wasn't really pleased with but since he likes it as is I didn't even bother to elaborate. This is a gift to his wife along with some others.

The question of concern is that as long as he is happy with it should I just let it go as is and then offer to make those changes if she doesn't like it later on. I've never dealt with portrait oil paintings before so suggestions would be welcome. I feel bad that it is only a likeness and not as realistic as the photo. Maybe its the canvas size that doesn't really reflect the differance as it isn't really noticable unless these images are side by side. Is the customer always right even if the artist is less than pleased with the work?

I'm not sure where to post this so if the moderators want to move it thats fine. I just need some experienced suggestions.

Tess

[This message has been edited by tess2000 (edited May 30, 2001).]

Well, I resisted but just couldn't leave it alone. Changed a few things but at least I can live with this one.

Thanks for all the Advise and Help! It was greatly appreciated! Heres the revised one.... Signed. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Tess

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[This message has been edited by tess2000 (edited June 09, 2001).]

[TMoore]

You will always look back at previous pieces and see errors and have better ideas. Your temptation is understandable since it is still in your possession. But it sounds, from your description, as if the client already considers the 'deal sealed'. He is expecting the portrait that he has approved. I wouldn't change anything unless he is in full knowledge of your modification plans. The idea of letting the wife have the freedom to pursue modifications is a good idea though it can set a precedent that can put you at jeopardy. Portraits do medle with a person's vanity and, though rare, I have heard horror stories where a client kept the artist 'perfecting' over and over. Just be aware of the risks.

[Mario]

Hi Tess,
I am an art student myself and am currently studying portraiture in oils. I can only critique this portrait from the little that I know.
First of all, find a good teacher who paints naturalistic portraits because with just a few portraits you could advance amazingly further than you are now. The painting is obviously taken from a photograph because the midtones appear to be completely missing. There is a black black and a white white and very little in between, whereas a portrait from life would have a much narrower range of tones but, at the same time, a much fuller modeling with tones. You are preoccupied with likeness when the more important thing is the quality and balance of paint application and colors. {I'm sorry that I haven't an example to show what Im talking about.} The four whites of the eyes are just the same white white, rather than four different colors, none of which is a stark white..and the outline of the eyes is also too simple and unrealistic. The hair is done in a sort of "paint in each strand" style which also lacks sensitivity. The portrait, on the whole, is very disappointing because of these choices that were made.For instance, the line under the eye would be a much different stroke, thickness and colorwise than the one on top of the eye.
These criticisms are ones that I hear about my own work, each time that I'm in class. They apply to your's as well. It's unfortunate that the client accepted the work, as is, and had you make some even less sensitive choices. I think you can use your disatisfaction with this portrait to motivate yourself on to do much better work with the help of professional instruction, at first. Good luck.



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When painting onto a FLAT SURFACE, think FLAT, FLAT, FLAT, FLAT, FLAT !!!!

[tess2000]

Dear Mario and Nelson,

This is only the fourth layer of paint. I'm really not happy with it at all and don't consider it near finished. Even though the changes I was going to make was minor (no trouble) I still felt I should do them. He brought the photo and instructed me to "duplicate" it. So photorealsm was the intention.

I mean clearly it has more stages to go but the thing is, he came over to review it. I explained that I still had this that and the other to do and he said, "no don't bother, its fine like it is. Looks just like her". I even told him it wasn't any trouble for me but still he insisted..."nope, I like it just like that". go figure.

It's sort of frustrating because Its like getting out of the tub with the soap still on. Know what I mean. However, not much I can do if he's satisfied with it.

To paint another is time consuming and then I would be stuck with a painting I didn't want even if he took the "finished" one so I would have to eat that expense.

Oh there are more detailed images on my site here: http://users.ticnet.com/tess2000/private/femaleportrait.html

You can really see how much is left in these inages as they are much larger, but I was cut short so, I just stopped and called it done. I now regret inviting the preview of the work on the way to the finish mark. But if I eliminate it, its more difficult to make any changes. I did offer a computer edit of what the changes would look like on the finished model as well. Still, no go.

OH well, live and learn.

Tess

[ArtyHelen]

Hi Tess,
With commissions, I think the most important thing is that the client is happy. This is one of the main reasons many artists steer clear of commissions like the plague...
Clients seem to want "people's art" and artists want something more 'substantial' and 'clever', for want of better words. Therefore, doing commissions often means doing work that isn't what you would normally aim for...
Personally, I class work that is for clients in a completely different section from the art that I do for ME. I think this is what you need to do, too, and be more aware that you're doing that.
Your main aim in taking on a commission is to please the person you are doing it for. This is your goal. Pleasing yourself is the goal you have when you do your 'other' art, for YOU.
So, I think you should be proud that you've pleased the client so much, and move on to the next! http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

Helen


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Visit me!
http://pencilartist.50megs.com

[goss]

Hats off to artists who have the patience to let clients sit there and pick apart their blood, sweat and tears with so much detachment. My opinion of doing portraits for money is that the client is just using the artist as a pair of hands because they can't do it themselves. The client says 'I can't make me look thinner by moving the paint around, BUT THIS ARTIST PERSON CAN!, Do it artist person!" And we're faced with having to swallow our pride once again. When I do a portrait I never ask for payment and no payment is ever offered. I paint someone because I think they are a character, and their unique physical appearance will make an interesting visual statement. If someone did want a portrait commissioned then some rules would have to be worked out beforehand to avoid constant revisions being made.

[nnelson1]

Hi, Tess!

I agree with TMoore, especially from a business stand point. If this is the product the consumer wants from you, then fine.

However, I do agree with you that a few things are "off". The nose is not the same, the eyes are more hooded in the photograph, and the entire face seems "plumper" than the photo reference.

Were you going for photorealism or a stylized rendering? I think this is a very sharp painting, but I do feel your personal/artistic qualms are justified.

Having said that, from the sounds of your client, THIS is what he wants. Perhaps, to calm your soul, you could paint another that might be more what YOU'RE after and let him choose.

Then,again, maybe not! http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Hope this helps.

Nick

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Everyone knows the moon's made of cheese...

[tess2000]

Originally posted by goss:
My opinion of doing portraits for money is that the client is just using the artist as a pair of hands because they can't do it themselves. The client says 'I can't make me look thinner by moving the paint around, BUT THIS ARTIST PERSON CAN!, Do it artist person!" And we're faced with having to swallow our pride once again.

No kidding! I think I'll have a huge "wind up key" printed on the on the back of T-shirt with "I Can Paint 4 U ~ No Batteries Required."

I have decided he's not going to see the next one until its done. Even if I have to eat it.

Tess

[goss]

No kidding! I think I'll have a huge "wind up key" printed on the on the back of T-shirt with "I Can Paint 4 U ~ No Batteries Required."

I have decided he's not going to see the next one until its done. Even if I have to eat it.

Tess

lol. Good idea. You should market that item around WC. You would get more than a few buyers.

[Leslie M. Ficcaglia]

Tess, I do portraits on commission and have a different point of view. I have clients review the portrait after I block it in and then again when I'm close to completion, but I make it clear in my discussions and brochures that the goal is not only a good likeness but also a good work of art. In order to retain control (and I know this isn't usual practice) I don't accept any fees until the client accepts the work. If I were to have a client ask me to stop before I felt the piece was finished I would explain that the work needs to be done to my satisfaction because my name will be on it - that I have a standard that I must maintain as a professional and the client's choice of me to produce the portrait indicated that he liked my work ; therefore he needs to abide by my judgment. Client concerns about a mouth or cheek that looks slightly off to them are valid, and I respect those and make every effort to satisfy them; only the client knows the subject well enough to make those calls. But issues about when the work is finished are my prerogative and I would never let a painting leave my studio in a state that I considered incomplete. My reputation rides on every piece.

That being said, I do agree with a lot of the comments about the painting. It's a very good likeness but needs more depth, some changes in the shape of the nostrils and lips, and more color balance. In the reference photo note that the shadows at the corners of the mouth are almost as dark as her eyelashes, her nose and cheeks have more definition, and her hair should have more variability even if you want to paint it lighter than the photo. However, the fact that it's so good a likeness of the subject despite those points suggests that you're a natural at portraits and should keep it up. Good luck with that client!

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Leslie M. Ficcaglia
Minnamuska Creek Studio
Portrait Gallery at http://www.igc.org/mauriceriver/riverpeople.html

[tess2000]

Originally posted by Leslie M. Ficcaglia:
Tess, I do portraits on commission and have a different point of view. I have clients review the portrait after I block it in and then again when I'm close to completion, but I make it clear in my discussions and brochures that the goal is not only a good likeness but also a good work of art. In order to retain control (and I know this isn't usual practice) I don't accept any fees until the client accepts the work. If I were to have a client ask me to stop before I felt the piece was finished I would explain that the work needs to be done to my satisfaction because my name will be on it - that I have a standard that I must maintain as a professional and the client's choice of me to produce the portrait indicated that he liked my work ; therefore he needs to abide by my judgment. Client concerns about a mouth or cheek that looks slightly off to them are valid, and I respect those and make every effort to satisfy them; only the client knows the subject well enough to make those calls. But issues about when the work is finished are my prerogative and I would never let a painting leave my studio in a state that I considered incomplete. My reputation rides on every piece.

That being said, I do agree with a lot of the comments about the painting. It's a very good likeness but needs more depth, some changes in the shape of the nostrils and lips, and more color balance. In the reference photo note that the shadows at the corners of the mouth are almost as dark as her eyelashes, her nose and cheeks have more definition, and her hair should have more variability even if you want to paint it lighter than the photo. However, the fact that it's so good a likeness of the subject despite those points suggests that you're a natural at portraits and should keep it up. Good luck with that client!


Dear Leslie,

I do agree that if she was standing beside the portrait you could tell it was her. BUT, since you mentioned my name will go on this; that is my major concern. I'm extremely new to oil paints but from previous work in acrylics, and sculptures I still know whats not good for me at all. Here is another thought I have tossed around.

This person is not the "art" type. I really don't think he would know the good from the better to the best. The portrait so far is done in thin layers and very shallow. I paint like this so I can work in the darks as needed as I go. Especially on a painting this size. SO... I have a real strong feeling that I could make these changes and he wouldn't even notice it if you know what I mean. I am so tempted to do it anyway I'm painting something entirely differant just to get away from it. The worst thing to me is the nose. I have to fix that and there is just no way around it. I just can't sign it as is.

So I have a plan... http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

I'm going to do the next one he wants in completion, and then let let him look at the two side by side. I think then he will realize what not only he is missing out on but what the portrait is missing out on as well. I hope this strategy will work because as is, I sure do not want to sign it.

Thanks for your advice and encouragement.
Tess

[Leslie M. Ficcaglia]

Tess, I think if I were you I'd tell him that you plan to make a few changes because you don't feel comfortable signing it as is, and then go ahead and do that. Unless he has a photo of the painting thus far I suspect he won't even be able to pick out the changes, but will just love it anyway.

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Leslie M. Ficcaglia
Minnamuska Creek Studio
Portrait Gallery at http://www.igc.org/mauriceriver/riverpeople.html

[leesmith]

Hi Tess,

What a dilemna! It's for this reason alone that I don't let anybody preview during any stage, until its finished. They always want to know how long it will take. I always tell them I can't determine that, I can't feel rushed or pressured to meet a deadline. I get as much information up front as possible and let the client know that I will achieve a likeness but the final portrait will NOT be an exact duplication of the reference photo; ie, certain things may be edited out, light and shadow will be emphasized, clothing may be arranged slightly different, even the hairstyle! I have yet to have anyone refuse to accept or even to have a complaint with a finished piece.

You do have recourse, don't sign it until after he's given the gift. Then get her input and impressions. Being a woman, LOL, I figure she will point blank agree with you!

[This message has been edited by leesmith (edited June 05, 2001).]

[campsart]

I agree with Leslie 100%. Let this one go but consider her approach in the future. Keep on perfecting...

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"Art is a jealous mistress and if a man has a genius for painting, poetry, music, architecture or philosophy, he makes a bad husband and an ill provider."
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1888), American essayist, critic, and philosopher.