Need help on this

[tammy]

Hi,
this is one I'm doing of my friend's child from a photo. I need help so didn't put it in critique as I know something is wrong here and I'm just asking for a little imput. Obviously I'm having trouble with the shadows of the chin and mouth as well as the skin tones. Any helpful comments. Visual help is welcome too. Thanks
I don't know how this got so big. I think something is wrong with my photodeluxe program. This is a scanned image of only part of the portrait. It came out better on the scanner than my camera but I couldn't get the whole thing on my scanner.
Oil 16" x 20"
<IMG SRC="http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/lib/10-Feb-2001/steves3.JPG" border=0> <IMG SRC="http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/lib/10-Feb-2001/stlay2.JPG" border=0>


I was afraid you were going to say that. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif
I'm awful I know, but I'd really like to get this right. I just don't know how to get those dark creases around his mouth in there without it looking like drawn in lines.

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Don't worry, its gonna be all right....
Tammy's Home for Artists (http://tammy.artistnation.com)

[This message has been edited by tammy (edited February 10, 2001).]

[Cherie]

Your proportions are off. Try working with your painting and the photo upside down. Paint what you SEE, not what you think.

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Cherie

[degreene72]

tammy have you read the online portait lessons? specifically the one about setting a pallette? (http://www.wetcanvas.com/ArtSchool/Portraiture/Palette/index.html) you need a color for the light and one for the shade, you are also not observing which areas are actually in the light and which are shaded. i would suggest going through the various portrait lessons that are available here, and then go back and reevalute this painting.

just a few quick tips...the whites of eyes are never actually white, they are a cool, light version of the skin tone. shadows will be cast by the eyelid and lashes. the eyeball is round...render it as a sphere.

in skin, the most intense color should be where the form turns from light to shade.

believable hair is rendered as masses of light and dark.

skin tones are warmer in the fleshy areas of the face...nose, cheeks.

young children have no hard lines in the face. keep your edges soft. if you'd like to review some advice on softening edges, go to http://www.studioproducts.com/forum/forum.html and look in Library & Articles. there is an excellent article there about controlling edges.

is this done in the water base paint? if so, it may make it more difficult for you to soften edges, since you are not working with a medium.

hope this helps. it's a lot to learn, but worth it.

diane

[This message has been edited by degreene72 (edited February 10, 2001).]

[tammy]

Thanks ya'll. I've been through the portrait studies on here many times, palette etc...
I've used so many books I've got here that I almost know em by heart.
As far as proportions, I used my Tracer light to put this on the canvas first. I must be getting off when I actually do the painting by slowly getting outside of my lines. That has to be what I'm doing.

I'm beginning to think I'm just plain color blind.

Well, back to the drawing board. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif
My knowledge is not helping me much is it?
Teehee.

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Don't worry, its gonna be all right....
Tammy's Home for Artists (http://tammy.artistnation.com)

[djstar]

ok, I am going to give it a try.
You know I think in shapes.
So, in spite of the bad rap posterizing gets, I took some of your problem areas and wanted to show you the SHAPES and VALUES of them.
<IMG SRC="http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/lib/10-Feb-2001/stlaycontrast.jpg" border=0>
By dropping all the color out and seeing it as shadow, you can take THIS piece of reference and try to use the landmarks for the eyes, nose and smile.

<IMG SRC="http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/lib/10-Feb-2001/posterboy.jpg" border=0> <IMG SRC="http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/lib/10-Feb-2001/yourstaly.jpg" border=0>

This shows in 6 values, so you can see how the shadows shape the face and notice the dark parts you want help on, are not as dark as you think, but they are more defined.

<IMG SRC="http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/lib/10-Feb-2001/littlemouth.jpg" border=0>

It can be done in color, but if you use the wrong color, you can pull it off with the RIGHT light or dark and a definate shape of the areas.
OK.
I tried.
Did it help?
dj*

(I scanned yours in the posterizer to show the difference.)


[This message has been edited by djstar (edited February 10, 2001).]

[tammy]

yes, Dj, that does help alot! Now if I can do it in paint. I think I must be using the wrong colors or something though.

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Don't worry, its gonna be all right....
Tammy's Home for Artists (http://tammy.artistnation.com)

[djstar]

NOPE, just try to get the darks and lights right, and you can figure it out in colors too.
Try thumbnails of the areas.
On the pink area of the skin, use green to draw in the big shapes, and then a bit darker purple if you want to put in the next one but think of color as grays.
Did you ever make a gray scale and try to match the colors to the grays?
Your skin tones will not bother you if they are fuschia or chartreuse (what happened to that spell-check?!?!) IF you can use them as values.
Trust me. Or at least try me.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
dj*

[This message has been edited by djstar (edited February 10, 2001).]

[tammy]

Originally posted by djstar:

Did you ever make a gray scale and try to match the colors to the grays?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
dj*

[This message has been edited by djstar (edited February 10, 2001).]
I've read how to do that yet never have actually done it. I'll have to try it!



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Don't worry, its gonna be all right....
Tammy's Home for Artists (http://tammy.artistnation.com)

[Cherie]

Tammy, post the photo.

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Cherie

[gmc]

DJ how did you do that what a great idea. Help me to do that also. What did you use and how did you use it. Wonder if it would help me. gloria

[djstar]

hmmmm I did it in my Corel PhotoPaint. Adobe Photo Shop should have it too. I am pretty sure most of the inexpensive or free ones with your scanner or camera have digital editing stuff.
I just adjusted the picture quality by converting it to a grayscale or black and white photo. Then I pushed the contrast way up and the brightness up a bit too. Just to drop out all the subtleties.
Then I selecetd the posterize in the special effects part.
I did a quick check and Adobe PhotoDelux which comes for free in most hardware and you may even get offline, can di it. First adjust the quality to bump the contrast, then convert to b&w then go into the special effects, artistic, and pick posterize and select the number of steps.
If I say more this will end up in the Computer forum!!!
good luck
dj*(OH and dont forget to turn it upside down too!)

[Noble]

Generally, it is a good idea to try and work monochromatic and get more proficient with that before you tackle color. Keeping it simple first is better. You need to see the "big picture" first, or else the details will distract you and send you off on a wild goose chase so to speak.

Maybe try and do a small painting from the "posterized" image first (the image dj* posted) in just one color of your choice. Black, brown, blue whatever in only 6 premixed values. Dont mix any other variations and try and just get the posterized image correct. This will really focus you to the values and shapes. See how the likness is preserved with even only 6 values? Wow, this is an interesting idea I never even thought of before, premixing six shades of gray (or less even) and laying them out, and painting a posterized image with the same number of steps. Kewl exersize!

It doesn't have to be big either, the key is to see the value and shape as dj* points out.

Keep at it!

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Cheers,
Noble
http://artofnoble.com

[degreene72]

if you do the grey value painting you could use it as an underpainting and lay the color over. this is a great old technique that has lost favor in the huge popularity of "alla prima." a very sound approach for portaiture and more suitable for a beginner, really.
diane

[tammy]

Originally posted by degreene72:
if you do the grey value painting you could use it as an underpainting and lay the color over. this is a great old technique that has lost favor in the huge popularity of "alla prima." a very sound approach for portaiture and more suitable for a beginner, really.
diane

Ok I got my posterizer photo printed out and then I'll use degreene's technique and that should work, Right. And I know its gotta be the chin that I've gotten way to large I think that is throwing everything else off.
I also did a posterized one in color.
I'll show ya'll how I've done when finished.
Great ideas, I knew em, I just didn't do em.
tisk tisk.
Ya'll may hit me with a ruler now. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif


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Don't worry, its gonna be all right....
Tammy's Home for Artists (http://tammy.artistnation.com)

[LDianeJohnson]

Hi Tammy,

Just saw this portrait posting. Before addressing color few observations about the basic structure of your painting:

<IMG SRC="http://www.ldianejohnson.com/WC/child.jpg" border=0>

On a child this young, generally speaking, eyes start halfway or lower on the head (not of the face, the head.) I reduced your portrait to be the same scale as the photo. Compare where the white and black lines indicate the features and head positioning in both images. A couple of the more significant items are the chin to mouth depth. This child has a shorter chin compared to the drawing. The eyes are positioned pretty well, but the eyes look away rather than at the viewer and are more open. And the face overall is very wide in the drawing. If you can capture the proportions well at the initial drawing stage, then we can work on the color. You have a good start with the colors too...they just need some refining.

Hope this helps http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif


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L. Diane Johnson (http://www.LDianeJohnson.com/) NAPA, PSA
Plein Air Workshops (http://www.LDianeJohnson.com/workshops/)

[gmc]

DJ Thanks. I found everything that you suggested. And it works well. What great info you all gave. gloria

[KaTee]

Artistry

How did you get the white and black lines on the photo and picture, was it in your photo imaging software. I found that really useful to look at and compare.

Can you point me in the right direction for correct proportions etc.

Thanks

Karen http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

[degreene72]

tammy if you do the underpainting remember to KEEP ALL EDGES SOFT. this is very important....as rh has said, you can always sharpen an edge, but it is extremely difficult to soften a hard edge...keep ALL the edges soft until the last....you will see the sense of reality you can achieve this way immediately as you do the underpainting.

diane