PDA

View Full Version : ESP (explore soft pastel)--August 2004: scumble, glaze and feather


Deborah Secor
08-12-2004, 09:53 PM
Last month in ESPóExploring Soft Pastelówe looked at how to tone paper and the different appearance that various ground colors give to your paintings. This month weíll take a closer look at three techniques you can use to achieve different effects using pastels. Some of these are a little bit different in pastels than they are in other media, so if you recognize a term take some time to think about how itís done with pastels.

Letís talk about how to scumble (roughly drag one color over the top of another one), glaze (smooth a thin layer of color over an area of pastel) and feather (use a stick of charcoal or hard pastel to lightly blend colors and values together) with soft pastels.

The definitions shown come from Merriam-Webster and Artlex (http://www.artlex.com/):

SCUMBLE
1 a : to make (as color or a painting) less brilliant by covering with a thin coat of opaque or semiopaque color b : to apply (a color) in this manner
2 : to soften the lines or colors of (a drawing) by rubbing lightly
There are two senses for this term. Its earlier meaning: a broken passage of opaque or translucent color (often paint) skimmed or dragged across the surface in such a way that each color is visible, each modifying the other, or, to apply a color in this way.
A later sense for scumble: to smudge or smear the lines, edges, or colors in an image by rubbing lightly.

Letís start with scumbling. This technique has been described so often on the TV home shows, where decorators use the tip of a big house painting brush to dab a globby layer of paint in place, that many people are confused. Some who have worked with oils or acrylics think of it as simply scribbling with the paintbrush, and although you can use a scribbling motion in pastels it isnít exactly the same.

No, to scumble in pastels you first need a couple of layers of color in place, somewhat thickly laid down so that the value is already established. Then you can scumbleóscribble, stroke, scrubóanother color over the top, roughly and loosely applying a new layer so that you can still see the other colors coming through. It makes for lively color and strokes, with a very uncontrolled, painterly look.

You might scumble when you want to create a mass of distant trees, or you could scumble grasses loosely into the foreground. In painting any kind of subject matter, when you want to enliven the color and keep things free, scumbling may help. Itís the antithesis of tight little strokes.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2004/23609-scumble2.jpg
Here you can see that Iím scumbling some lavender into the already existing greens and golds, to create a mixture thatís not covered by any one color but is a pastiche of all of them together.

Notice how Albert Handell has scumbled together several colors in the grasses and trees of this painting:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2004/23609-HandelladobeWC.jpg

Sometimes scumbling is made with softly repeated strokes in one direction, or by crosshatching. In this painting you can see how Iíve scumbled each part with the repeated directional strokes, blue and purple in the mountains, peach on the road, greens in the trees, and yellow on the grasses:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2004/23609-SilvertonTimeWC.jpg

GLAZE
3 : to give a smooth glossy surface to
Also, a glaze can be a thin, translucent or transparent coat over a painting, sometimes meant simply to protect the paint underneath, but more often to add a veil of coloration to an area of a picture.

Next letís look at how to glaze. This is a little different from scumbling in that the idea is to add a soft veil of color over the top of one area of the painting in order to harmonize the colors or give an impression of light or color there.

To do it you must establish several layers first. Then using the open, flat side of a stick of pastel softly cover the area with a wash of color. This works best if the pastel is larger in size, in most cases, as a small stick tends to create lines when it catches an end too easily. The idea is to float pastel over the top evenly and thinly.

You can use glazing to warm or cool a larger area of the painting, or to add colors when needed. For instance, if your distant mountains are too dark, glaze them with a lighter blue. If still water needs a layer of sky color, glaze it. If the sun is drenching one part of the painting, use glazing there. Glaze the background around a figure, or the table in front of a still life.

Here Iím using the flat side of a cool green to glaze the side of the mountain in sunlight:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2004/23609-glaze1WC.jpg

So it will look like this:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2004/23609-glaze2WC.jpg

Notice how Fred Somers has glazed the blues in over the reds in his water:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2004/23609-Somers_Passages.jpg

Iíve glazed the sky with yellow:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2004/23609-SouthMountainSunsetWC.jpg

And Handell has glazed this sky with green:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2004/23609-HandellroadWC.jpg

FEATHER

In drawing and painting, to feather is to blend an edge so that it fades off or softens. To feather is also to overlap values and colors in the manner of the overlapping feathers of a bird.
Stroke or Ďfeatherí pastel colors into each other to draw areas of tone lightly together.

Feathering is slightly different again. Itís used to mute and draw together an area of the painting, not adding color over it but softening and subduing color and contrasts.

You do it by putting down several layers of color, at least three, and frequently more, so that there is a creamy pillow of pastel in place over which youíll work. Then, using a long stick of extra soft thin vine charcoal, lightly and quickly swipe it across the pastel. You may certainly try this with other varieties of charcoal but I believe youíll find that extra soft thing vineónot thin, not vineóbut all four words, works the best. Use a fresh long stick to keep yourself from bearing down too hard and making scratchy marks in your painting. The idea is to leave a slightly gray layer over the top, leaving all the shifts in color and value that are originally there but graying them just slightly with the charcoal, thus bringing the values closer together.

Use feathering when you want to push the distant mountains away and mass the values so that the range appears uniformly distant, or lay down a reflection in all the clarity and detail of the objects being reflected and then feather it all together to achieve the flat, muted surface of still water.

You can see the charcoal tip as it feathers over the purple rocks behind the yellow foreground:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2004/23609-feather1WC.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2004/23609-feather2WC.jpg
The pink color was originally as bright as the yellow, so I feathered over it all with loose, fast feathery strokes to mute it all. There are now stronger lights and darks in the fore.

Feathering has been used to mute and mass together the distant blue, green and lavender mountains without removing the colors or details:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2004/23609-JuneMorningWC.jpg

In this one, I have feathered all of the colors from above the yellow-green hills up to the most distant peak:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2004/23609-ToTheCrestWC.jpg

Here I feathered the water:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2004/23609-SummerReflecWC.jpg

SO NOW WHATÖ?
You might want to try applying these techniques if they arenít already familiar to you. I suggest you try doing some small sketches that you can post here for us to share. Letís keep it simple to begin with.

Assignment #1: Scumble

Using this photo of an orange (or use any other photos or fruit you have for any of these), try scumbling some color into its surface, the shadow and the table. Be adventurous, using layers and scumbling a variety of colors there.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2004/23609-orange.jpg

Assignment #2: Glaze

Try using the glazing technique to make the surface of this apple. You might scumble in the shadow area, or glaze over the background. Go ahead and try thingsóyou can use any colors you want to!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2004/23609-apple1.jpg

Assignment #3: Feather

Just to keep with the fruit theme, try painting in some or all of these apples and feathering back the ones you donít want to be the center of interest. You might also glaze the ones that are to take center stage, and scumble in areas like the basket, as well.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2004/23609-apple_basket.jpg

Or use this photo to try all three! Glaze the sky, scumble the foreground, and feather back the mountains! Have fun with this one, try different things, be creative in any way that pleases you.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Aug-2004/23609-ThreeGunSpringWC.jpg


I hope youíll join me in trying these exercises. Let us see what you do, too!

Deborah

pjo
08-12-2004, 10:35 PM
Deborah, what a wonderful, wonderful explaination you have given to us all on scrumbling, feathering and glazing. I really can't say enough, your generosity with your talent and time overwhelms me. I'm going to try to join in on an exercise but it will probably be after Sunday, my grandson is going back to Florida on Sunday night, (hurricane Charley permitting) and I should be able to get back to participating more. Thank you, I'm looking forward to this soooooo much!

Deborah Secor
08-12-2004, 10:41 PM
Aw, thanks Paula! I hope you can join in when you have the time. This will be up for a while, so I look forward to seeing what you do!

Deborah

soap
08-12-2004, 11:17 PM
I haven't been around much to see if you did these sort of threads before but I had to post to say this is brilliant educating! I'll rate it!

SweetBabyJ
08-12-2004, 11:19 PM
I dunno if I'll get to any of the exercises, Deborah- I've already a number of projects either going or planned- but I can tell you I'm doing all three of these techniques in the piece I'm currently working on now. Marvelous explanation- and very timely for me- let's me know I'm doing it "right"- lol. I'll post little close-ups of the various techniques when I'm done- or at least "done-er"- right now, I need to make sure I keep it cohesive (it's HUGE!!)

Dyin
08-12-2004, 11:22 PM
wow, Deborah...you took classroom to a whole new level! :clap: I'm jealous that you can glaze like that...i can very carefully use a finger with color on it to glaze, but it's not as crisp as this. Great job on the explanations and good of you to take the time to do it for everyone. :)

Deborah Secor
08-12-2004, 11:33 PM
Thanks, Sophie--hope you get a chance to try some of the lesson too.

Julie, I would LOVE to see some examples from your painting. It helps us all to see how these techniques are used in 'real life' paintings. Please do post some, I really look forward to that--although I saw the painting and know how big it is, and how busy you are! It's just gorgeous, by the way.

Glad you like it Sue--you're my inspiration here, ya know!

Deborah

Khadres
08-13-2004, 12:08 AM
Very nice presentation and definitions! I'm wondering if the same soft "rules" apply to scumbles and glazes in pastels as to oils? As I learned it with oils, a scumble was usually a lighter color lightly scuffed over a darker and a glaze was usually a thinned darker color applied over a lighter one. I think this was the rule for oils because scumbling is more likely to obscure a bit of what's underneath while a glaze leaves the underneath visible but through a transparent veil. Guess that kinda works for pastels too!

I'll try these exercises when I get time...they look like fun! I know I've done some of each of these before....though unconsciously. Will be fun to intentionally check it all out. Thanks!

binkie
08-13-2004, 01:30 AM
Deborah, this is FABULOUS!!!!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: I've had 3 classes and had never heard of feathering and glazing.

Thank you so very much for offering your help and expertise.

gwen

jackiesimmonds
08-13-2004, 02:33 AM
Excellent teaching here, everyone should be VERY grateful indeed.

I would just add one small caveat . You say that feathering is used "to mute and draw together an area of the painting, not adding color over it but softening and subduing color and contrasts."

Here in the UK, we WOULD consider feathering one way of ADDING to the colour, rather than a technique for simply muting the colour.

When I use feathering, I use it as a mass of individual strokes, built up gradually, and I sometimes use this for adding richness to a colour area that seems dull or flat, particular where I might have some solid or blended areas that have filled the paper tooth and I want to bring back the liveliness of the texture.

feathering can help to produce subtle changes of colour character ...

*by lightening, or darkening, a mid-tone that lacks contrast with surrounding colours:

*by "cooling" a warm colour, or vice versa

*by enlivening colours that have been deadened, by introducing light touches of a contrasting colour.

I find that the essential difference between feathering, and scumbling and glazing, is that for feathering, one uses the "point" of the pastel to lay down swift little linear strokes, while both scumbling and glazing need to be done with the side of the pastel.


IMPORTANT NOTE: This is not in any way meant to argue with your teaching - simply to add to it. I do hope you won't mind, Deborah. Sometimes, we tutors have different meanings for the various technical terms, AND DO THINGS IN SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT WAYS, and it can be helpful for students to know this.

I think WC-ers will find your thread incredibly useful, how lovely of you to spend so much time on this.

Jackie

lawsportraits
08-13-2004, 09:25 AM
This is invaluable Deborah!!!! Better than any pastel book I've ever bought.

I had never thought of using vine charcoal! :D

Thank you for giving us so much of your time.

Heather :D

Kathryn Wilson
08-13-2004, 10:39 AM
Well, dang, is that what I was doing all along? Love the upclose demos - that really demonstrates how to do it in a manner that is easy to understand. Will have to give that mountain scene a try - :clap:

Hope everyone is rating this thread!

bnoonan
08-13-2004, 11:05 AM
fanstastic lesson - it's almost like being in the studio with you Deborah. (though not as hot).

I've rated it as well. 5 stars!!!

Barb :)

judwal
08-13-2004, 11:16 AM
Great lesson Deborah. Thanks!

Deborah Secor
08-13-2004, 01:55 PM
Sooz, that's interesting info about glazing and scumbling in oils. I don't usually think of there being color rules for pastels that way, though oils and pastels often agree. I'll have to analyze it! :confused: :)

Gwen, thanks. I hope my info helps us all think and try things!

Jackie, this is very interesting (and no, I would never construe this as anything but additional information!) All of it is valid and useful--and maybe I need to do a bit more experimentation! Thanks for the additional thoughts here. I've feathered using a pastel pencil now and then, but I use longer, sweeping strokes witht the pencil held at the very end to keep it light, just as I do with the charcoal. That certainly adds an overall touch of light color, but I'm not using the short strokes you mention. Hmmmmm... more to study!

This is one thing that I neglected to mention--when you feather, hold that long stick of extra soft thin vine charcoal so it is loosely grasped to avoid making hard lines. You can't use a short stick to do this effectively--I find I'm not feathering at all if it's too short of I'm choked up on the stick.

Heather, you're more than welcome to any information I have. Try the charcoal--it really gives an interesting effect!

Barb, I tell ya, it's cooler now--honest! Glad you like this lesson. Come by any time! ;)

Thanks, Judy. :D

I sure hope some of you give the lessons a try and show your results. Let's see what questions develop! One of hte great strengths of WC is the visuals, don't you think? That's what makes this a good 'book!

Deborah

Meisie
08-13-2004, 04:35 PM
Wonderful thread! I've not done much pastel lately (lack of time)...and this may well change that. Thank you for the lesson(s) and the beautiful demo examples! :D

Meisie

Deborah Secor
08-13-2004, 05:27 PM
Oh, Kat! Thanks... I hope you do try the mountain. You've all probably been doing all these things all along, in one form or another, just not knowing what to call it!

Thanks, Meisie--And I hope to see some pastel under your fingernails again sometime! :)

Deborah

CarlyHardy
08-13-2004, 07:34 PM
Info for anyone looking for our first lesson from Deborah.....all the ESP's will be moved to the Pastel Library at the end of each month and indexed for ease in finding each one :)

Deborah, thanks for a wonderful lesson. I'm going to try the feathering with the charcoal stick this week!!
carly

SweetBabyJ
08-13-2004, 08:49 PM
Okay, this piece is gonna show some of my general weaknesses with landscape components- I'm not good at trees, 'cause I want them to look like *trees*, not "tree-shapes"- so they're always a bit stiff and odd-looking. But, it uses all three of the techniques in Deborah's lessons- so, here we go.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Aug-2004/9169-LayerTriocrop.jpg

The rounded rocks are a non-descript ochre-ish-green which was scumbeled over with a dark gray blue for form and volume. But, they're underwater, and I have to show that, so various light blues and turquoises are glazed over them, with a darker blue glazed into the darker shadow areas. The tree trunk reflection is also glazed in, with lighter patches which indicate the lighter rock underneath both glazed and feathered in. The "leaf" clumps are pretty much just tattooed on in this part- with some feathering using a lighter hue on the outer edges of the clumps.

The whole piece is coming along here- it's going fast, but still has a day or two of work to go, I'd say- it's another huge one (21" x 32" I think), and no matter how easy and basically rythymical the work goes, it still takes a long time.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Aug-2004/9169-LayerTrio01.jpg

Deborah Secor
08-14-2004, 01:07 AM
Wow, Julie, this is a fascinating piece! You've really taken on a lot here--water, reflections, floating flowers, and the rocks too! I love the subtlety of the rocky shapes and colors, and that reflection is lovely. It really reads well. Interesting that you say you used a lighter hue to feather the edges of the foliage in reflection. This sounds a bit like what Jackie mentioned. Did you use short little strokes or long wispy ones?

This painting is really big! Is it on Wallis or another paper? When you said you were working on a large one I thought you meant the glads! But this--wow!

Thanks for showing us your progress.

Okay folks, I know the fruit may look fairly innocuous compared to this incredible piece, but we all have to learn, right? Hope you'll share what you do too!

Deborah

SweetBabyJ
08-14-2004, 01:07 PM
lol- I use whatever I need, Deborah! It's actually feathered with a harder pastel rather than charcoal- I find I get a good "halo" effect that way, and the colour mutes just enough to soften the edge. You taught me feathering with the bane of my existence- which I may one day re-do if I ever get enough "landscape sense" going.

Yeah, it's big- and of course on Wallis- you can't layer like this on anything else. Listen to Deborah about this, Folks- these techniques really don't work well unless you have a good cushion of pastel worked into the ground already, at least three layers. The more layers, the easier it is to glaze and feather nicely, and of course, scumbling gives you all kindsa layers anyway.

Oh, and I took out some of those grasses- prolly two-thirds of 'em- they were unnecessary, distracting, poorly rendered and interfered with the sense of "tree". It's really reading well now, and I'll thicken up the branches to give it a real sense of "looking up into a tree upside down". I think it's a ref photo from the RIF, but I don't remember whose- I know I've had it on two or three harddrives now.....


Then, it's back to light on gladiolius, I think....

chookbrown
08-14-2004, 04:58 PM
Thank you Deborah for all this wonderful information!!! I am definitely going to attempt some of the exercises!!

Colleen :D:D :clap:

Dark_Shades
08-15-2004, 04:17 AM
Excellent Dee......... these sort of threads are so invaluable :clap: ..... thanks for the time and effort you are putting into these.....

Time of late has been minimal for me to participate in anyway, but as soon as I can....... Im going to inwardly digest all this info, and try out the lessons :)

E-J
08-15-2004, 08:43 AM
Thank you so much, Deborah, for the generous demo and explanations of these three techniques :clap:

I was scumbling already and knew that's what it was called, but was less aware of glazing, though I have undoubtedly used the technique ... and as for feathering with extra-soft-thin-long-vine-charcoal ... I had never heard or read about that anywhere! the kind that Jackie describes, where you're making little strokes with the tip of the pastel stick, is very familiar, but subduing colours with charcoal ... one learns something new every day here :) Look forward to trying these out!

lawsportraits
08-15-2004, 10:07 AM
Heather[/B], you're more than welcome to any information I have. Try the charcoal--it really gives an interesting effect!

Deborah

Why thank you Deborah! I may just take you up on your offer. I often find landscapes particularily intimidating. I always have a problem with greenery, never know where to start with grass and fields, etc. ends up looking like the dogs breakfast.

Heather ;)

meowmeow
08-15-2004, 11:40 AM
Wow! These ESP's are excellent Deborah. YOu make it all so easy to understand...the close ups are a big help.
Thanks so much for taking the time to do these...I know I appreciate it.
There is so much to learn here at WC...thanks to all the wonderful people who are willing to share their years of experience.


Sandy

Deborah Secor
08-15-2004, 12:11 PM
Colleen, you're more than welcome! I hope everyone discovers some new technical things...or maybe just puts a name to what they have done all along.

Dawn, digest away and maybe sometime you'll share some sketches with us. I understand about time--trust me!

E-J, Albert Handell taught us this feathering with charcoal technique, and it may be that he was the innovator. He certainly spread abroad the idea, as well as many others.

Which reminds me: the idea in feathering with the charcoal is to think of the stick as a butterfly wing that you use to move the layers of pastel around, so lightly that the powdery wing will not be damaged! It's a very light touch, which is why you hold it 'long'.

Heather, landscapes may not be your forte but your dogs are terrific! You've no doubt used some of these techniques in painting them...and maybe landscapes aren't your forte yet!

Thanks, Sandy, I tried to make the close ups as close and as big as possible. I think I'll try to shoot a couple extras to try to show more about feathering with charcoal.

Oh, and if anyone else can show shots of the 'British' version of feathering with short strokes, I'd like to see them!

Deborah

Kathryn Wilson
08-15-2004, 03:52 PM
Ya mean I gotta go first - :eek:

I conquered the glazing and the feathering really well - did some scumbling in the middle ground, but those dang bushes busted me up. I wiped them out 3 times and still not happy. I just couldn't figure out how to scumble those bushes in the foreground, so I did it my way - LOL.

This is on Art Spectrum Leaf Green - 8 x 10. I did use a black pastel pencil for the feathering dee - haven't gotten to the art supply store in the last week or so.

Not sure why the Uploader put these in this order, but feathering of the mountains is first, scumbling of the rock area is second, glazing of the sky is third, and the finished painting is fourth

Thanks for much for doing this for us - the feathering is my favorite - :clap:

Dyin
08-15-2004, 04:52 PM
Hey, Kat...great practice piece...though think it's more than that now it's done :D Love the purple mountains and the rocks just sing and think your way worked on the grasses just fine! Haven't figured out a way to make feathering work on the OPs...and glazing is harder but doable...but I scumble all the time lol!
Admiring your stuff too Julie!

chookbrown
08-15-2004, 05:55 PM
Nice job Kat!!! Whew... somebody had to go first, you brave soul!! :D :evil: :angel:

Cheers, Colleen :D :clap:

Kathryn Wilson
08-15-2004, 06:08 PM
Quaking in my knickers here - Dee hasn't commented, so she's probably sitting at her easel showing me how I should have done it. :D

BTW Dee - if you wouldn't mind, how about a demo on how to do those darn bushes in the front - :evil:

Deborah Secor
08-15-2004, 06:26 PM
ROFL! Oh, if only, Kat. No, been on the net all day looking for a new place for my mom to live...what a headache! On to the comments, then... :D

Wow--I love the painting as a whole, Kat--don't you? The colors of those mountains are lovely, the lyrical purples and blues--very nice! And the sky is really neat. It sets the mood of the whole painting. Did you lay down blues and then glaze in the yellows? It looks like the scumbled rocks came out well, too. I think you should be very pleased with this one.

I think feathering with a black pstel pencil is slightly harder than with the charcoal, so next time in pick up a few sticks. I like the Grumbacher.

As for the bushes, whatsamatter with these? Nothing! I think they look great... I'll see what I can do for you in terms of a demo on the bushes, but I don't fault what you did!

For a finished painting the only thing I'd suggest is adding an element theat goes up on the righthand side, since all is sort of tipped that way. Maybe the greenish hillside could rise up slightly.

All in all, it looks like you did it, girl! What did you learn?

Anyone else, now that brave Kat has gone first??? C'mon, you can do it!

Deborah

Kathryn Wilson
08-15-2004, 07:18 PM
On a whole, I do like this painting - but I got snagged on the bushes - :p This painting was singing to me, but the stick of doom got me when I couldn't come up with the right colors for the bushes. I tried every color combination, but nothing looked right. I think it brings down the quality of the painting drastically, for me at least - remember I saw the possibilities of this painting before the bushes.

I glazed yellow over turquoise blue - so that was successful and fairly easy to do.

The feathering was fun! I placed all my colors where I wanted them, then feathered and it was like magic - everything came together. This was the best!

I have been struggling with trees and bushes lately - spending way too much time trying to figure it out. When you asked that we scumble the foreground, I knew I was in trouble, 'cause I couldn't figure out how to scumble bushes. I started off with a very dark green, with bits of rusty red, topped off with a dusty turquoise for those lighter bushes in the back. It really looked lame. Then I went with browns and yellows - nada. This one is the same blue as the mountains, with the rusty red, and bunches of other colors I can't even remember. But it should be easier than this. Had the same trouble with the grasses on my boat painting in OP's. Just not getting it.

But now that I've done a dusty again, I want to do more! I've learned a lot in OP's - how to plan more, how to figure out where I want my colors, highlights - I plan more in my head than I used to.

Thanks again Deborah!

bogbeast
08-15-2004, 07:47 PM
Well, I can see what I'll be doing for the next few days... I said I wanted to paint, and here's lesson and demos, all laid out, just daring me to ignore them! Deb, this has all the makings and fine photo demonstration for a new book! and Julie and Kat, lovely work--I will do my best to bring the quality level back down to "beginner", hopefully starting tomorrow...

lawsportraits
08-16-2004, 06:50 PM
Well, all I can say is.......I tried, exercise # 1 that is. Honestly Deborah, this is harder then I thought. I suppose I've never really been cognitive of the techniques I use when painting portraits. Maybe I have scumbled the odd time, but I don't think it happened during the making of this sketch. :( I believe this sketch is more about cross hatching than scumbling. What do you think????

Attached please find the initial charcoal sketch as well as final product.


Thanks!!

Heather

Deborah Secor
08-16-2004, 09:37 PM
I think this is lovely, Heather. :cool: Yes, it is a bit more crosshatched than scumbled, but it works in so many ways. I adore the variety of colors you used here. They're just luscious.

You might try using a more random stroke on the next experiment to see how that works. Think controlled scribbling. You can lay down the edge of the orange without scumbling, then use the scribble stroke to enhance the parts of the orange where the texture is apparent.

Please don't consider this a flop--it's really a neat experiment! Betcha learned a lot from it, too. Anything I learn from I consider a success. Hmmmm, I'm wondering if this might be more like feathering a la Jackie... Not sure, since I haven't seen her style. I hope we get a demo of that someday!

Are you planning to do the next one, the green apple? If so, I want to see it!

Thanks for playing with us.

Deborah

lawsportraits
08-18-2004, 08:29 AM
Thanks Deborah!!

I thought i'd post my attempt at assign #2. It's not done yet. I'm a little apprehensive about the glazing part. I think I need you to hold my hand through this Deborah. I almost threw this thing out yesterday, but thought better of it. I'm turning to you now, for a little help. The background did not turn out the way I'd planned, I need to knock it back. I'm also unsure as to what colour to use for glazing the apple? Maybe I should blame it on the ground colour, ha ha! Perhaps I should have chosen a little colour.

I hope others are going to try this???

Anyway, here it is.

Thanks

Heather

Deborah Secor
08-18-2004, 10:18 AM
Heather, I'm just so glad you're giving this a try. Here's my analysis...I think you need to stop relying on the point of the pastel stick and turn it on its side. Stroke over the entire apple with a light coat of the yellow-green color, even if you should overlap the edges and background. You can clean them up later, as you normally would. The crosshatching in the shadow and fore might be more scumbled. Try using a more random, scribbly stroke over it. You can also try feathering the far background with a long stick of charcoal or a pastel pencil. Hold it at the base loosely and let it wander in a quick, very light stroke over the entire reddish-orange upright plane in the background. It will become somewhat more muted that way.

I'll post a demo sometime today with more specific strokes--and I do hope some of the others will also give this a try!

Thanks Heather--I''m holding your hand!!! :D

Deborah

Cindy Aspden
08-18-2004, 10:21 AM
Dee, thank you for your time, effort, detail, explanations, demo's, close-ups---->>>everthing a beginner could ask for!!!! In fact it was just a couple of days ago I was talking(whining :)) to Sue that I needed more and WOW, here it is. Now except for that lurking fear. . . I have no excuses. . . I love that you have included the fruit. I've been struggling with a tomato and finally did it in graphite cause I couldn't figure out how to go about it. Now I can give it another whirl. Dee I can't thank you enough for this thread! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Cindy Aspden
08-18-2004, 02:40 PM
Forgive me for doing my own thing, but I had started on these a couple days ago and really wanted to see if i could finish them. Turns out I can finish, but I need serious help. This is my second attempt at the soft pastel. The 2 are done a little differently. I had already blended the first one(our left) when I found this thread. The second one I tried the glazing when I couldn't seem to get the hang of the scumbling, which felt really hard. I will conform to the projects now. Oh dear. .. *sigh*

questions: 1. how does one achieve a really sharp edge?
2. if I was to do the background toning, and I make a mistake- how does one correct without losing the background too?

cindy
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2004/14692-totmato_pastel.jpg

lawsportraits
08-18-2004, 04:54 PM
HaHaHa! Thanks Deborah. Yes, I'll have to break the habit of using the pointy edge, may take longer than I thought. You see, I've been painting beasties for far too long, the apple looks quite hairy, doesn't it. :( Don't think i've drawn fruities before. I will make the necessary changes to night and will post later.

Thanks again!

Heather

Deborah Secor
08-18-2004, 05:02 PM
Here's another demo for you on scumbling. I took some pix in progress.

Here are some detail shots from the underpainting:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2004/23609-SCUMBLE1A.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2004/23609-SCUMBLE2A.jpg

This is the first completed layer:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2004/23609-SCUMBLE4A.jpg

Then the final painting:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2004/23609-SCUMBLE7A.jpg

and some close-ups of it:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2004/23609-SCUMBLE5A.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2004/23609-SCUMBLE6A.jpg

I hope you can see that the stroke is loose and ovrlapped, as are the colors. It isn't a winner of a painting, but I was more concerned with showing you the strokes up close than making it beautiful!

Does this help? I hope so... What else do you want to know about scumbling?

I'll try to work on the glazing and feathering soon, if this helps, so that you can see a little WIP on each one.

Deborah

Deborah Secor
08-18-2004, 05:08 PM
Cindy, how sharp an edge do you want? This looks pretty sharp to me! As for corrections, what I do is wipe out background and what's in front and do it over--sometimes you have to! That's why painting is like a dance: you put your colors in, you take them out, you put them in, you take them out....

Heather, it's not hairy--it's 'loose' and 'painterly'! Just thought maybe you could add to your repertoire a bit. You do those critters sooooo beautifully.

Maybe my new demo will answer some questions for both of you! Hope so.

Deborah

Meisie
08-18-2004, 05:17 PM
I'm still here! Hoping to start mine later today.Got carried away with a charcoal sketch instead :rolleyes:
Wonderful examples from everybody so far WOW!!!

Meisie

lawsportraits
08-18-2004, 05:30 PM
Oh, this is definitely adding to my reperitoire, Deborah! I have not had any formal instruction for such a long while, and I am sooooo grateful for this. Your recent demmo has been very enlightening. I find your underpainting quite fascinating. No wonder your paintings are so rich and full of depth.

For the plate it looks as though you've worked dark over light, is my observation correct? What were the colours you used, and in what order did you use them. Did you use all three of your techniques here? I see the scumbling more clearly now. Is the entire plate done with this technique.......... Or, Did you blend with any sort of tool, ie foam brush or blending brush? The reason I ask is that the end result is so smooth, seems hard to believe it's done done with scumbling technique. The orange however does look scumbled.

Thanks so much for all of this!

Heather

Deborah Secor
08-18-2004, 05:42 PM
Come join us sometime, Meisie!

Heather, I didn't blend at all with anything. No blending! I layered in the reds, magentas, and purples over each other for the dish. Then I added darker versions of the same colors over them, scumbling all the while. I used some glazing for the dish, using the flat side of the green pastel to smooth it a little--but not overly much. For instance, I didn't try to smooth out the little corner areas, but left them rough. For the reflection I feathered it slightly with charcoal to make it flatter and muted looking. I left the orange rough, where the scumbling works to advantage, I think.

And color is what it's all about, isn't it? I love to combine layers that will make a beautiful and lively look.

Deborah

lawsportraits
08-18-2004, 05:51 PM
Come join us sometime, Meisie!

And color is what it's all about, isn't it? I love to combine layers that will make a beautiful and lively look.

Deborah


Oh, most certainly!!!!!! I would love to see allot more of your underpaintings. You have me hooked now!!!

I think I'll have to try exercise #1 again.

Heather

lawsportraits
08-18-2004, 06:57 PM
OK, so I worked on this a bit more. I think my glazing on the apple went well.
What do you think? Should the background be mutted even more. I'm running out of tooth there though, the pastel is starting to skid around back there.

I'm having fun with this. I've neglected my portrait work though. :(

Heather :D

Here's the sketch.

Cindy Aspden
08-18-2004, 08:09 PM
Dee, thanks for the additional tutorials. . . they helped alot!!!:) When you say color is what it's all about. . . that's primarily why I have stayed with the graphite so long. So this is exciting and scarey for me at the same time. Anyway here's my orange. C & C most welcome.

cindy
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2004/14692-tomato_scumble.jpg
sheesh. . .lost the file.. .had called it a tomato. . .:( lol

Cindy Aspden
08-18-2004, 10:59 PM
Here is my #2 with glazing. I am at a loss for what to do with the background. I have tried and rubbed out many. My biggest challenge is what colors and combinations. ?????
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2004/14692-apple_glazing.jpg

Deborah Secor
08-18-2004, 11:06 PM
OK, so I worked on this a bit more. I think my glazing on the apple went well.
What do you think? Should the background be mutted even more. I'm running out of tooth there though, the pastel is starting to skid around back there.

I'm having fun with this. I've neglected my portrait work though. :(

Heather :D

Here's the sketch.

Looking good, Heather!! I particularly like the shadow side of the apple.

Hmmm, no kidding, a fruit fly just made a beeline for it! Seriously! Bet he was disappointed. Computer screen, not juicy apple. :rolleyes:

No, I wouldn't worry about the background at all. It's an exercise and I think it's finished. Glad you're trying this!

Deborah

Deborah Secor
08-18-2004, 11:09 PM
Dee, thanks for the additional tutorials. . . they helped alot!!!:) When you say color is what it's all about. . . that's primarily why I have stayed with the graphite so long. So this is exciting and scarey for me at the same time. Anyway here's my orange. C & C most welcome.

cindy
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2004/14692-tomato_scumble.jpg
sheesh. . .lost the file.. .had called it a tomato. . .:( lol

You're more than welcome, Cindy. I like this one a lot! It's NOT a tomato, clearly. LOL What kind of paper is this on? If there's enough tooth, try doing a little more squiggly strokes on the orange itself. I love your green/orange contrast!

Deborah

Deborah Secor
08-18-2004, 11:11 PM
Here is my #2 with glazing. I am at a loss for what to do with the background. I have tried and rubbed out many. My biggest challenge is what colors and combinations. ?????
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2004/14692-apple_glazing.jpg

Well, for now why not just let it be. You don't have to do a background. I love the delicacy of the sheen on the apple. How about just glazing in a bluish shadow to see how it looks? That will ground the apple.

You should be happy with these!

Deborah

Meisie
08-19-2004, 02:56 AM
hmmm my effort thus far is not too promising as far as sticking to the exercises go! :(
I tried to 'scumble' but this side of canson is so rough! (Currys had stuck a sticker on the backside, which is what I usually use :rolleyes: ) so I blended it in, then sprayed....and now I'm starting again. The dish need work still....that elipse still looks off.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Aug-2004/24673-pampoentjies1.jpg

I also scanned a close up which will hopefully show more of what I tried? Go ahead and tell me start all over again.... :D I don't mind....I'm learning!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Aug-2004/24673-pampoentjiesclose.jpg

Meisie

lawsportraits
08-19-2004, 07:20 AM
Hmmm, no kidding, a fruit fly just made a beeline for it! Seriously! Bet he was disappointed. Computer screen, not juicy apple. :rolleyes:

Deborah

HaHa! Thanks Deborah! I'll try the basket of apples now, this should be interesting....wonder if I'll be able to trick that same fruit fly. :D

Cindy, I agree with Deborah, love how that apple shimmers. Your orange is better than mine too :p ;)

Heather

Cindy Aspden
08-19-2004, 12:11 PM
Deborah WOW! You don't know how much I appreciate your time and teaching. :D Well, that plate/background was really bugging me, so rather than add squiggles(I will though), I tried another one with more scumbling. The first one was done on brown paper and this on fairly toothy sketching paper. I see my shadow is a tad too big. Deborah, this scumbling is fun. . . it's just me getting past that need for order and neatness and all the "stay comfortable in the box" stuff. And Heather, I was chatting with a friend last night about this thread, telling them you ALL are doing such works of art and I. . . :( bleck!!! I like your orange better than mine! lol

cindy
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Aug-2004/14692-orange_scumble_2.jpg

lawsportraits
08-19-2004, 09:07 PM
Cindy!! Finding colour a scary experience Eh!! HaHa! My arse. :D :p

Well done!!

Heather

Deborah Secor
08-19-2004, 09:27 PM
hmmm my effort thus far is not too promising as far as sticking to the exercises go! :(
I tried to 'scumble' but this side of canson is so rough! (Currys had stuck a sticker on the backside, which is what I usually use :rolleyes: ) so I blended it in, then sprayed....and now I'm starting again. The dish need work still....that elipse still looks off.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Aug-2004/24673-pampoentjies1.jpg

I also scanned a close up which will hopefully show more of what I tried? Go ahead and tell me start all over again.... :D I don't mind....I'm learning!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Aug-2004/24673-pampoentjiesclose.jpg

Meisie



Sorry it's taken me so long to respond here, but I had to teach a class today and since I'd never taught this particular subject before I had to prep it all last night. But here I am again... :wave: (oooo, new smilies!)

Meisie, I love your colors here! The harmony of the yellow, blue and green is lovely, and the touches of purple in the blue plate are great. The peppers are nicely done, too!

It looks like you worked on a reddish color paper, which is interesting in the darker upright plane with the dark green over it because they're the same value, but in the table plane it might distract a bit too much. It's not bad, but if it were my painting I'd continue with a couple more layers of color in there, perhaps blending first and then lightly glazing some other colors over the top. I don't know if you can do this if you've fixed it already, but if not, you might consider this method for another painting sometime. That highly textured side of Canson is a pain!

I think the ellipse only looks off because of the pepper that is overlapping it in the lower left corner, I think. By now I suspect you've worked on it, so I hope you'll show what you've done or decide to do on this one! Good work!

Deborah

Deborah Secor
08-19-2004, 09:33 PM
Deborah WOW! You don't know how much I appreciate your time and teaching. :D Well, that plate/background was really bugging me, so rather than add squiggles(I will though), I tried another one with more scumbling. The first one was done on brown paper and this on fairly toothy sketching paper. I see my shadow is a tad too big. Deborah, this scumbling is fun. . . it's just me getting past that need for order and neatness and all the "stay comfortable in the box" stuff. And Heather, I was chatting with a friend last night about this thread, telling them you ALL are doing such works of art and I. . . :( bleck!!! I like your orange better than mine! lol

cindy
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Aug-2004/14692-orange_scumble_2.jpg

Cindy, such a nice GLOW to this orange! It looks good! I like the green plate, too, with all it's colors. You should be happy with this one. The only thing I'd suggest is that you darken the shadow a bit and scumble some more dark green over the purple. You really need the 'root' color of the plate, since green in shadow is still green! ;) I like theat you're enjoying getting 'loose' here! LOL

Glad you did another one of these... It's always good to apply the things we're thinking about.

Deborah

Meisie
08-20-2004, 03:10 AM
Deborah, thank you for the feedback, no problem to wait :D I've not worked on this today, so I'll be able to apply what you said. I'm glad you saw that the elipse is seemingly off because of the overlapping....which is exactly what is happening. I thought it looked nice like that, not realising the implications :rolleyes:
I need to get to them no later than the weekend though, or they will start rotting :), I'm sure I can add more layers enough to improve the foreground : you are right, the color paper is burgundy, I like doing bright colors on dark paper.
Those apples in the basket I did in cp on black, I loved it!
Here it is, just for fun : http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Aug-2004/24673-apples1.jpg
I hope to have the time next week to try that landscape ref of yours!

Meisie

Deborah Secor
08-20-2004, 10:42 AM
Wow, Meisie, that is one gorgeous piece. I know how long colored pencils take to do, so I doubly admire it! :) Looking forward to the changes in the peppers, too...

Hope to see some apples in baskets in pastels from some folks, or maybe the landscape!!

Deborah

Dark_Shades
08-21-2004, 01:05 PM
Well I think I might of Scumbled..... Glazed... feathered ....... and definately having fun..... sooooooo good to be getting dirty with pastels after so long..... about an hour or so worth ...... lots more to do and correct .....

Deborah Secor
08-21-2004, 02:37 PM
Yep, Dawn, I'd say you did it all! Love the colors you're getting in this one, and the sense of depth and air is beautiful. Isn't it fun to play with a simple subject and let the techniques do the work? Looking really good!!

Thanks for participating!

Anyone else working on anything...???

Deborah

chookbrown
08-21-2004, 04:26 PM
Very nice DS!!! Love the light reflections on it!!! :clap: :wave:

dexonsbabe
08-21-2004, 04:38 PM
Just come across this thread Dee and seeing as I've just bought some soft pastels thing this will help me no end.........normally I work in pastel pencils as I've got more control but they can take so long.........will def give this a go when I get time :cat:

Dark_Shades
08-22-2004, 08:47 AM
Thanks Dee and Chook ...... wish I could do Orange and Lemon Peel better :p :) ...... managed to attempt the Apple...... not finished, as got more peeps viewing the house shortly..... grrrrrrr now Ive gotta stop and get all cleaned up .... what a pain lolol .... yes Dee, its great having a simple image to play around with and have fun...... have enjoyed being able to get dirty this weekend ......

need to work on stalk and the apple part near it.... lol, this was sooooo impressionistic to start with I went into panic mode lol, and got the pastel pencils out :eek:


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Aug-2004/12116-Apple1.jpg

Deborah Secor
08-22-2004, 01:21 PM
This one is really elegant, Dawn! I love the sweet colors, and the finish on the apple is glowing. I can't imagine you have too much left to do on this one. Beautiful example! Thanks!

Lori, join us any time!

Deborah

Marge Cline
08-23-2004, 12:25 AM
spent about three hours today doing these two exercises. My old man says the orange looks spoiled! Oh well, on to the landscape; am gonna skip the apples in the basket. I learned a bunch already. Thanks. Marge

Marge Cline
08-23-2004, 10:07 AM
sorry for two posts, but I'm still learning here. The first post was a digital picture of the drawing. This is a scanned picture. Wanted to see the difference in the colors. I was leery of using the scanner because of getting pastel dust in the machine, but guess it wasn't too bad. Marge Cline

Marge Cline
08-23-2004, 10:34 AM
trying again to post scanned picture. Guess file was too large last time Just refused my scanned picture again and I can't figure out how to cancel this post or how to make the picture file smaller. :confused: Oh well, at least I could send the digi photos, but the color was much better on the scanned images. Marge Cline

SweetBabyJ
08-23-2004, 11:01 AM
If you scanned the pic in, it's now sitting somewhere on your hd, right? So open your photo-editing program, and either "open" or "import" the scanned pic. Then you can resize it to the acceptable 600 x 500 pixels size WC allows. Then you can upload it here.

The uploader is located under "Quick Links" on the blue bar above here- last choice of the drop-down menu. Click "uploader", then browse to the file, then click "open", upload", then "copy" then "close" then come back here and "paste" (ctrl v) and we'll all be able to see the picture when you actually post.

Marge Cline
08-23-2004, 03:20 PM
OK I'll try again/the green apple...now it says invalid file type PSP (I suppose that means Paint Shop Pro which is my photo program) and I don't know how to cancel this message either. ARGGGGGGHHHHH! Marge

SweetBabyJ
08-23-2004, 03:24 PM
Right. So open it in psp again, and then say "save as" and this time, under it's name, click that little bar that says "save as type" and go up the list to jpg, highlight that and then save. PSP wants to be proprietorial, and so defaults to a psp file type- but it is jpg which is more universally accepted and supported.

Marge Cline
08-23-2004, 03:30 PM
one more try then I give up! ..... Yea, I think it's gonna work this time.

Marge Cline
08-23-2004, 03:36 PM
Think I now understand how to do that, but now I can't get the thumbnail that is posted to enlarge. How does one actually paste into the body of a message. I know how in Word documents but have never done it in email Thanks for all the help. If you want to answer all my questions privately, let me know how to contact you. Thanks Marge

Marge Cline
08-23-2004, 03:45 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Aug-2004/48361-green_apple_scan_reduced_2.jpg

trying again.

SweetBabyJ
08-23-2004, 03:46 PM
well, I can see it, but it sure is tiny! Plus, you attached instead of uploaded, so it isn't there when I try to view it when replying. hmmmm- lemme think on this a second.

The properties say that pic is now 58 x 60 pixels- so it looks like it thumbnailed it and left it at that.

Make sure the pic you save as jpg is 500 x 600 pixels- either dimension, but no more than that. Then UPLOAD it, under "QuickLinks" on the blue bar above the reply thread. That really, truly should work.

You gotta learn to do it sometime- may as well be now. We're patient, promise.

Marge Cline
08-23-2004, 03:55 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Aug-2004/48361-green_apple_scan.jpg

let's see if this works

Marge Cline
08-23-2004, 03:58 PM
persistence pays off I guess. Can you see it????????????? I had to change the file size before I resaved it. Had been saving a copy before. Ah, technology. Back to pastel dust, just came back from blowing many$$$ on some new colors. Thanks for the help. :clap: :clap: :clap:

SweetBabyJ
08-23-2004, 04:02 PM
Ta-daaaaaa! It's big and round and juicy-looking- and obviously begging for a caramel coating and stick!! Plus, I can see it when I reply!

Congrats on the shopping spree! Go to the Pastel Talk Forum and tell us aaaaallll about it in the Weekly Scumble- we love to shop vicariously.

Meisie
08-23-2004, 04:48 PM
Fine work Dawn and Marge ! ....my weekend turned out rather hectic :( , hope to find time in the week to work!

Meisie

Deborah Secor
08-23-2004, 05:53 PM
:music: lone ranger theme :music: Julie to the rescue! Thanks, gal... :D I've been away from my computer for a while, which is just as well since I doubt I could've talked you through this whole process like Julie did, Marge! *whew*

I love your apple! Nice glazing there. Looks like you painted on the rough side of Canson, if I don't miss my guess! You've gotten a nice sense of space in it. On my monitor the orange is a little blurry, but it doesn't look like it's spoiled to me! LOL Can't believe he said that... I think it has good texture and color, clearly in contrast to the smoother plate--and I like the use of the complement for the plate, too! Only thing I'd do is slightly darken the shadow up next to the orange to 'anchor' it in place a bit more.

Nice to get acquainted with you. Tell me about your experience--have you worked in pastels for long? Oooo, and do share your new purchases with us!

I'm glad you feel you learned something. Looking forward to seeing your landscape!

Deborah

ayeceaeph
08-23-2004, 08:41 PM
Deborah, thanks for another terrific ESP! I love the way you and the others take the time to write terrific lessons for the rest of us.

You're truly all wonderfully generous with passing on much valued information and tips.

I look forward to the next ESP with great anticipation!


Oh yeah, and...not like I needed to...but I rated this thread too... :p

Marge Cline
08-23-2004, 08:56 PM
Well at least I figured out how to include a scanned picture into these messages. Am going to try to include the landscape wip that I started with my new colors. Found this most gorgeous purple that I wanted to use in the mountains and am pleased with how it looks. Lots more work needed but it's started.

To answer your questions, I started painting with pastels several years ago and took some classes from a couple of local artists. One was with a Native American who does lots of paintings on birchbark and rocks. What beautiful work he does. Another was for portraiture at a local jr. college. Then found a local gal who ran classes in her basement and she really taught me a lot. Other than a semester of art in high school many, many years ago, I have learned mostly by myself. I paint in acryllic only, haven't got the patience for oil to dry, do some ink drawings and am working on pencil and pastel portraits when I have the patience for that format. Those are really hard work IMHO.

My husband (of 45 years) is pretty much housebound with emphysema and that has cramped my traveling around quite a bit. He generally wants me to stay home as much as possible, so I have to have something to do to keep me busy and keep us out of each other's hair. MY kids are grown, I'm retired from the USPS, I play in a community band and garden a lot. Guess that's enuff for now. So glad I found this group and you all seem so nice!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Aug-2004/48361-mountains1.jpg


I couldn't figure out what the "things" were in the picture.. even with a magnifying glass, so took license to make them into rocks. Comments welcome please. Marge Cline

Marge Cline
08-24-2004, 01:49 AM
another hour or so and here's where it went... I needed to paint some water...much more fun than all those willow trees in the photo :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Aug-2004/48361-mountain2.jpg

Meisie
08-25-2004, 03:30 AM
I finally got to these funny little vegetables today ;)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Aug-2004/24673-pampoene.jpg

Here is a close up

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Aug-2004/24673-pampoenclose.jpg

I scumbled, glazed and feathered..boy that sounds funny! :D I'm not sure how clearly that can be seen, though. How does it look?

On to the landscape...asap!

Meisie

Deborah Secor
08-25-2004, 03:08 PM
another hour or so and here's where it went... I needed to paint some water...much more fun than all those willow trees in the photo :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Aug-2004/48361-mountain2.jpg

Marge, look what you did with this! It's so changed... You must be happy with this one. I love all the blues in the image now. Glad to be able to get acquainted with you, too. Oh, and I know what you mean about drying time in oils, which is one of the things I love about pastels! No drying time, no yellowing or cracking, no color shift and not much fading (as in watercolors). I'm into spontaneity in my media, I guess!

Deborah

Deborah Secor
08-25-2004, 03:10 PM
I finally got to these funny little vegetables today ;)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Aug-2004/24673-pampoene.jpg

Here is a close up

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Aug-2004/24673-pampoenclose.jpg

I scumbled, glazed and feathered..boy that sounds funny! :D I'm not sure how clearly that can be seen, though. How does it look?

On to the landscape...asap!

Meisie

I think this one is very successful! Did you learn a bit about scumbling, glazing and feathering from it? Hope so. I like the finished version here! Looking forward tot he landscape, too...

Deborah

TSPoon
08-28-2004, 08:25 AM
Here are my little projects. I had a great time, thank you very much!
I realized I am lacking oranges.....I'll have to do something about that I guess!

Deborah Secor
08-28-2004, 12:39 PM
Terry, it's very nice to meet you and thanks for taking part in this thread! I'd love to know what kind of paper and pastels you have here. Have you painted in pastels for a long time?

Your apple has a very nice sheen to it and I like the breath of pink amid the blues on it's shaded side. Your orange looks orange to me, so I guess you were able to make oranges using scumbled yellow and red! I particularly like the reflection in the plate--very well done.

Glad you tried this--now will you do the basket or the landscape? Hope so. I like what I see here! :D

Deborah

Meisie
08-28-2004, 03:38 PM
Thank you Deborah...I sure learnt what to call what I do :D. And to choose a specific technique to get a wished for result! Still will do the landscape....just had another piece to finish first :)

Meisie

TSPoon
08-28-2004, 07:09 PM
Deborah,
Thank you for the nice comments. I have been painting in pastels for about a year, but very part-time. Seems I never have enough time.
When I started with pastels I bought a set of Sennelier half sticks and some Nupastels and occassionally I buy a stick of this or that (Unison, Rembrandt, Schmincke....I have a Daniel Smith store relatively close by), so the oranges I did have were from the Sennelier set. (oranges are not something I would have bought separately!) I was surprised at how hard they were, I had a difficult time scumbling with them (?). The paper I used was paper I don't particularly like, and just wanted to use it up, it's Fabriano Tiziano. It doesn't have much tooth, and I quickly used that up. I am another big fan of Wallis, but I tend to save that for 'special' projects!
I just recently found Wet Canvas! and am so happy - I now have a safe place to post stuff for comments and criticisms. Everyone seems very helpful and informative. I hope to be a contributor....
Again, thank you for your wonderful and very enjoyable lesson, I hope there will be more! I'm thinking about tackling the basket of apples next week (I'll use the Wallis for that).
Terry

vanityfaire
08-29-2004, 02:23 AM
Dee

Does this help? I hope so... What else do you want to know about scumbling?
I am working on a portrait of a three generation somalia women. The oldest women has lots of wrinkles in the face. I was using the charcoal to go over the detail work of it, but it muddies it a bit. Than I took to the highlights but now I am making her too young. Hmmm. any suggestions on a good wrinkle effect for portraiture? Vanity :cat:

Johnab
08-29-2004, 05:29 PM
Here are my attempts at Dee's scumble, glaze, feather exercise. I don't know if I really did the scumble or glaze correctly, but did feather the orange shadow (I think!) Actually I studied Dee's instructions, then became obsessed with making my paintings resemble the references. Dee, HELP, please. Haven't tried the basket of apples yet.

Thanks so much for giving these instructions, Dee. This helps me know where to begin and what to aim for. Now If I can only learn how to get there. :(

Deborah Secor
08-29-2004, 09:51 PM
Here are my attempts at Dee's scumble, glaze, feather exercise. I don't know if I really did the scumble or glaze correctly, but did feather the orange shadow (I think!) Actually I studied Dee's instructions, then became obsessed with making my paintings resemble the references. Dee, HELP, please. Haven't tried the basket of apples yet.

Thanks so much for giving these instructions, Dee. This helps me know where to begin and what to aim for. Now If I can only learn how to get there. :(

Beth, I think you've done a nice job on these! The apple is luscious--very believable glazed shine to it, and nice colors. (Everyone has done well with that apple, haven't they? :) ) I love the reflection of the orange on the plate and, yes, I think you did the feathering in the shadow well. I'd like to see strokes that are more random and 'squiggly' (scumbled!) on the orange, although I have to say that the colors are perfect. I also particularly like the melange of colors you used to make the dark plate--very strong harmonies there and I like the interesting gray background color, too.

You're there--wherever 'there' is! :D Glad the instructions helped.

Deborah

Johnab
08-31-2004, 08:32 AM
Thank you so much for the comments, Dee. Yes, I do need to learn to make more random, squiggly strokes in scumbling. I can see how these techniques add excitement to other's paintings, but I find it difficult to make a short stroke and leave it and tend to want to "smooth" everything out using the side of the pastel stick. I think if I could actually see someone do the strokes that you are suggesting, perhaps I could imitate that. Alas, so far I am my own teacher with the help of Wet Canvas and good instruction books.

And, thanks, I feel pleased with the plate and the orange's reflection too.
On the apple, I am most pleased the reddish cheek and highlight and the cast shadow is not bad. :cool:

Deborah Secor
08-31-2004, 08:14 PM
One of these days I'm going to do a video on pastel techniques in the landscape. Until then there simply must be some good videos out there we could all recommend to one another.... Hmmm, may have to post a thread asking for that information someday! It's so much easier to see what people mean, isn't it??? That's the value of classes and workshops. Still, WC isn't bad as the price goes!

So--does anyone else have work to share with us? Hope so! C'mon-I want to see a basket of apples from someone!!! :D

Deborah

Deborah Secor
09-08-2004, 01:31 AM
If anyone wants to continue working on these three techniques you can add posts any time. I've gone ahead and posted a new ESP thread on how to paint foregrounds. I hope you'll take a look at it, too--but I'd still like to see at least one basket of apples! :D

Deborah

paloma
10-05-2004, 03:10 AM
I seem to have come along here a bit late.
Having only just stumbled upon this extremely interesting demo of yours Deborah. I just had to give these techniques a try. So here is my first effort in feathering the background of your ref pic. The glazing didn't work out too well in the fore though. Many thanks . cc please. Alexandra

Deborah Secor
10-06-2004, 11:10 AM
It's never too late to post paintings here, Alexandra! (And anyone else who wants to play.)

I love this painting... what size is it and what paper are you using? You've really created a sense of depth in it--very well done. Isn't feathering helpful? :D

Glazing is really just a soft overall 'wash' (or swish in pastels!) of one color used to unify or mass together a portion of a painting, the way I do it. For my taste, you don't need to glaze the foreground in this one. I like the use of broken color in the bushes, as it makes the whole thing strong and colorful, and lends to the impression of distance. (Stronger foreground color often does that!)

So, I think this is a great success. Thanks so much for sharing with us.

Deborah

paloma
10-07-2004, 02:42 AM
Many thanks for feedback Deborah. The painting is approx 9X12 on Sennelier grey paper that I have not tried before. It felt good to work on & comes in a pad with glassine leaves between each sheet. So far I have done 2 paintings on this product & have liked it rather more than Canson.
These methods of glazing, scumble & feathering are sure to help me develop better paintings for the future. Glad you like the pic anyhow :)
Alexandra

Tom Behnke
01-29-2006, 06:31 AM
This is just so wonderful. As Kyle said, "is that what I have been doing?" I have definitely scumbled, and probably have glazed, but the feathering was a godsend to learn. Can't wait until tonight when I am at my easel.
Thank you so much.