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Tink
08-07-2004, 01:32 PM
I've been working on my female torsos, concentrating on implied musculature and proportion. Though my figures are somewhat stylized, I do want to accomplish a pleasing sense of balance. If that makes sense.

Problems with this pendant:

Breasts lack appropriate "sag"
Breasts slightly uneven (though I know that's a normal thing)
Gluteal mass uneven
Hips uneven
Taper of legs not pleasing (to me)


Stuff I like:

Nice, subtle musculature to midriff
Good size/placement/shape to neck/shoulders
Lower back detail is excellent
Pelvic region is just as I hoped it would be


I would appreciate any input you might have, including pointers on photographing etched clear work. I know these pictures pretty much suck, but I'm working on that. LOL!

Just thinking out loud here, and thought I'd share the process with you guys :D

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Aug-2004/10179-torso1.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Aug-2004/10179-midriff.jpg

Kimberly Affleck
08-07-2004, 02:18 PM
Hi Tink.
This is a very nice torso. However (there is always one in every crowd!) something seems out of proportion to me, even for a stylized figure. I think maybe a little more breadth across the chest or under the breasts as that area seems narrow and more bulge to the tummy. It seems to need a little bit of "swell". As you noted, the breasts are a little too perky, so a "sag" or a slight concavity at the top of the breasts might help. She just seems too thin through the middle to have the size of breasts, hips and thighs make sense.
I have seen some lovely photos of etched glass that were back-lit. Really brought out the detail.
Just my two cents.

scupltorgirl
08-07-2004, 02:42 PM
Hi Tink -- Really nice!

If it were anyone else, I would only praise this sculpture; but you asked for observations, so......

The tummy/pelvic region is very lifelike! (Just wish I looked like that -- LOL)

Because of the upright slightly twisting posture she exhibits, we would see more of indications of her ribcage. And like you noticed -- her breasts would show gravity, instead of appearing as if she is lying down. (The winged torso you posted I remember as having well-done breasts for an upright stance.)

You managed to show excellent implied bone structure in the pelvic area, if you could establish that in the ribcage, she would really look more lifelike!

Since you are confining her to a full torso, there's not a whole lot you can do differently with the taper of her thighs and still have a stylized line. Her thighs are nice. How does she look from the back?

Photographing translucent items can be tricky. Try playing with backlighting her by placing a lightsource from the back corner of your set-up, pointing forward diagonally (and possibly up) through her body. You can use several light sources to get just the combination of illuminated, glowing transluscence and hard-edged "dark line/white line" that you like (both front- and back-lighting). It's going to take some playing around with the light sources to get the sculpt to "read" correctly as to what is concave and what is convex in the final shot.

All in all, very nice. (Someday I wish/hope to be able to work glass like you can!!)

--Terri

saucy
08-07-2004, 02:46 PM
Okay after just loving your figure and drooling I'll give you my likes and whatnot.

What I like:
1. I love the pelvis area. The transition flows well for me.
2. Shoulders and neck are balanced. I love the natural flow of the shoulders.

What could be improved:
1. Breasts seem like they are from Beverly Hills boob shop stop. Sagging is a good thing to have natural looking breast
2. Hips could be fuller. Remember birthing hip remarks? A set of birthing hips, full and sexy, would look great with this form.

To give you a fair description though I think you should send her to me. I love her!

DesertDreamer
08-07-2004, 03:22 PM
Just proving that everyone sees things a little differently. :D

I think she's lovely but yes, I can see some areas of improvement.

I think the transition from shoulder to arm is happening too fast...she needs wider shoulders and less of a notch where the arms begin. It would look more correct if the "intention" of arms weren't outstretched.

I think the solar plexus is a little too pronounced and the proportion of the torso from beneath the breasts to the top of the hips is a bit too long. I think it would look better with less of an inward curve. The average ribcage has a straighter vertical plane on the sides.

And, purely in the land of "eye of the beholder", I think the tummy is a tiny bit too concave, especially relative to the hip outline.

Still and all, she's lovely! How about a back view? (Spines and shoulders are soooo tricky.)

Tink
08-07-2004, 03:23 PM
Thanks, guys! A note about the tummy: It has an awesome "pooch" to it. She has quite a stomach on her. For some reason, it looks concave in the photo. I need to give you a side view. She really isn't as skinny as she looks. Just long.

I'm not so concerned about "proper" proportion as I am "pleasing" proportion. Here is one of Shane Fero's pieces from which I've drawn inspiration.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Aug-2004/10179-FER7917-full.jpg

scupltorgirl
08-07-2004, 05:21 PM
[QUOTE=Tink]Thanks, guys! A note about the tummy: It has an awesome "pooch" to it. She has quite a stomach on her. For some reason, it looks concave in the photo. I need to give you a side view. She really isn't as skinny as she looks. Just long.

I'm not so concerned about "proper" proportion as I am "pleasing" proportion. QUOTE]

Hi again, Tink -- In your original post, you seemed to be asking more about "proper" than "artistic". Trust your own eye for "pleasing". ;)

It is all in the eye of the beholder. :D

(I'm a commercial sculptor and painter for a living, so I look at form for a living. There is an infinite continuum between realistic and stylized, but in artistic circles, only you can decide where you wish to land. Your glass stuff is well-executed, and your sense of line-to-form is excellent, so trust yourself and critique yourself. You know what you are striving for better than any observer who might comment. :) )

--Terri

CorriDawn
08-07-2004, 05:49 PM
That is georgeous!

I think that the rib cage needs to be a bit more pronounced and the torso a tad less long. Maybe if the rib cage was more pronounced then the torso would be fine.

I am on the opposite side I guess as others. I like that the tummy looks a tad concave. Why is it that they always have to have a pooch?

I think the hips and pelvic area are wonderful. I think if it was evened out a little bit then it would be perfect. I agree that the boobs are too perky. They seem like they are up a tad too high. Maybe in the neck/shoulder area try to add a little bit of collar bone detail in order to help the transition.

I have photos that I go off of when I try to figure out the perfect form. Of course I am always told I am trying for an unrealisitic hip/waist ratio.

Corri

firemonkey
08-07-2004, 05:53 PM
I think she is quite beautiful as she is. She is a very expressive form with a lot of vitality and energy.

There are a lot of great comments by all, and I can only think of a couple of things to suggest:

One thing that is always a little disturbing to the eye is to "cut" off the limbs at a joint (elbow, wrist, knee, etc) You might try to end her legs mid-thigh, keeping an elongated thigh-just not suggesting a knee area

I don't think the breasts need to "sag" more, maybe just move them down the torso a bit. Also, the navel is typically right at the thinnest part of the waist.

I think she looks quite naturalistic, perhaps because you have indicated so much of the bone structure and movement in a realistic way. If you want her to appear more stylized, you may want to exagerate some features more.

I am looking forward to seeing more of these from you...

CorriDawn
08-07-2004, 05:59 PM
I am cracking up because since you posted this Tink, I am now evaluating where MY breasts are and where my bellybutton is.

Tink
08-07-2004, 08:35 PM
I'm not supposed to be working today. I can't help myself though. There's a block party on our street, and we're cooking Kielbasa and Sweet & Sour Cabbage. But I keep sneaking upstairs to do stuff. Shhhh! Don't tell!

Here is a quickie 3/4 view of the torso:

CharleneN
08-07-2004, 08:45 PM
I think she is great. If anything is "wrong" then I think the waist is too long and the belly button too low. But then again I have a short waist!

Charlene

GinnyHampton
08-07-2004, 11:27 PM
Hi Tink!! I looked at your pix, did some thinking and THEN read everyone's suggestions . . . and my suggestions seem to be what everyone else is thinking ;)

First off, I am so impressed with your female figure. With just a slight tweak it could be absolutely perfect.
Two things that stuck out in my mind are the breasts are too high and the hips are too low . . . makes the tummy look too long. I like the perky breast look, I think they would look great if they were bigger and fuller on the outside and bottom, just placed a tad lower on the body. The hips/pelvic area is GREAT, it just needs to be placed a little bit higher. Looking at your pic, if you started the bellybutton area where the abdominal muscle line stops, THAT would be perfect. Hope that makes sense.

Your piece is beautiful and very sexy, great job :) And I LOVE the simple beauty of it being just one frosted color.

glassyeyed
08-08-2004, 02:03 PM
Hi, Tink! The figure is lovely. I haven't read everyone's comments because I wanted to give 'honest' feedback. So I apologize if I'm repeating what anyone else said.
She is certainly beautiful! There are two things that I think I'd like to see changed. The first is that she seems to me to lack a ribcage. That was my first impression. The second is that I'd like to see that beautiful hollow between the collar bones. You know, the one where a georgous lampwork pendant could rest?
Now, this is just my personal opinion - what I find pleasing. I'm not an expert - though I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :D
Ok, what I'd REALLY like to see is this same thing in the male version. :evil: :evil:

Tink
08-08-2004, 03:11 PM
Thank you to everyone for all the great input! I'm heading to the torch to try again, and it occurred to me that this would be a great challenge! Is anyone else game to post pics of their attempts at a female torso?

I've had some folks PM/email me regarding the lack of arms and head on the figure, implying that I was making some sort of "disempowerment statement" about women. In other words, by not having a head on my figure, I wasn't giving her the power to think, and that the lack of arms implied her inability to act.

Um... No. I simply see no reason to add appendages until I get the bulk of the figure looking the way I want. One of the first projects we worked on in Shane and Fred's class at Penland was a "Mama Toto" figure, and this is a continuation of that.

Lighten up :) Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...

Moth
08-08-2004, 04:18 PM
Hi Tink!

Beautiful work and I wouldn't even pretend to know how to improve on her.

Something about the photography came to me though, that I don't even know if it would work, but you might like to try it.

I am sure you have seen in modern homes the 'floating' glass shelves. They come right out from the wall, without visible brackets and are lit from directly underneath with uplights (sometimes in colors) and the light coming up through the flat bottom of the glass, is bent and projects out through the cut edge (front facing) of the shelf, transmitting whatever color the bulb is and giving the appearance that whatever is sitting on that shelf is floating on a slice of light.

If your female torso would bend and transmit light in the same manner, you might try lighting her from directly underneath with a spot and it could very possibly bring her features into better relief.

~~Mary

Tink
08-09-2004, 02:01 AM
I love your lighting idea, Mary! I'm going to see if I can find one of those little stands for paperweights that has a light in it and modify it for one of my figures! Thanks!

I found a wonderful article by Milon Townsend (http://www.northstarglass.com/newsletters/21.pdf) regarding lines and flow. It's really worth a read. Great images, and some fabulous ideas that really have my mind whirling! Scroll down on the link above, and you'll see it.

The first thing I did on the torch today was another figure. I'm really eager to see how it turns out!

It's been perplexing to me that I am having trouble with precise placements of elements on these sculptures. It finally dawned on me today that a HUGE part of my problem is that I'm working in clear glass! That makes it VERY hard for me to see exactly where things are and where the surface of the work is. Any suggestions, other than to work in color?

Is anyone else here doing any figural work? I would really like to see some, if you are!

Moth
08-09-2004, 10:33 AM
I hope it works out for you Tink.

I can't get that article to load. Will try again later.

~~Mary

GinnyHampton
08-09-2004, 10:54 AM
It's been perplexing to me that I am having trouble with precise placements of elements on these sculptures. It finally dawned on me today that a HUGE part of my problem is that I'm working in clear glass! That makes it VERY hard for me to see exactly where things are and where the surface of the work is. Any suggestions, other than to work in color?



Maybe try light amber or light gray (transparent) . . . . the light amber could be a pretty skin tone.

Tink
08-09-2004, 11:12 AM
Well, I just finished sandblasting my latest effort, and giving her a nice, relaxing etch bath. I have to say that I am pretty pleased with this one. After reading all the replies here and in another forum, I came to the conclusion that I need to be able to fairly accurately represent the true female form before trying to alter it. Does that make sense? On some level, I feel my abstract sculptural work will continue to look amateurish unless I lay the appropriate groundwork.

After I take my big puppy with the tiny bladder for a walk, I'll be taking pics. Stay tuned :D

Oh, and I know there must be some folks out there who are doing figures besides me. I would really, REALLY like to see some! Pleeeaaaaaseee???!!!?!?!

Dichroqueen
08-09-2004, 11:22 AM
Tink,
I like your torso figure. She reminds me of the "model type body", long and lean. Not like my body, but to be admired all the same, at least in a fictional version (anorexia issues not having anything to do with glass).
You might check out Caitlin Hyde's goddess beads. I think she lists on Ebay. I bought a goddess bead in neolavender opaque glass, which I really love.
Keep up the great work!
Patti

Tink
08-09-2004, 11:45 AM
Well, here she is. Still difficult to photograph. In the first image, for example, the background is reflecting (or something) on her tummy area. And some of the best details simply aren't showing up in my pictures. :rolleyes:

I apologize for the glob of Museum Putty that's holding her in place, but it was the best way to manage her for now. I also apologize for the mysterious glowing nipple. Go figure. LOL!

Anyway, she's in a dance pose, with arms outstretched and back arched and slightly twisted and her head thrown back. What do you think?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Aug-2004/10179-8904torsoa.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Aug-2004/10179-8904torsob.jpg

encantado
08-09-2004, 12:21 PM
I think she is lovely! There are so many different body types and she fits right in!

DesertDreamer
08-09-2004, 01:06 PM
I've had some folks PM/email me regarding the lack of arms and head on the figure, implying that I was making some sort of "disempowerment statement" about women. In other words, by not having a head on my figure, I wasn't giving her the power to think, and that the lack of arms implied her inability to act.

Oh good grief! :rolleyes:

And on to more practical issues, the side view is great. Nice proportions. Amazing how different the abs look, must be a trick of the light with the etching that makes the planes look so different on the front view.

I still wanna see her back. I have a thing about shoulders. (posted when Tink was posting :D )

Oh, okay! Talk about instant gratification! I think the back is great too. My preference would be to see a little more shoulder blade definition (makes for still more interesting planes). But way cool!

Oh, to deal with the "sag factor"....maybe her nips need to point a little less upward...orientation would imply a lot, gravity-wise.

Dichroqueen
08-09-2004, 06:51 PM
Tink,
Love the new torso! She looks triumphant.
Patti

CorriDawn
08-09-2004, 09:46 PM
WOW! It is great!

I think that the breasts on this one look more natural. Also, I love the collar bone/neck detail.

Corri

Booger
08-09-2004, 10:51 PM
I'm looking at the first photo and thinking "She is absolutely lovely." Seems as though you already called the breast area as needing some gravity... But when I saw the lady on this page?

YOU ARE THERE - SHE IS ASTOUNDING!
And so is the tremendous leap of mastery on your part.

Take A Bow.
Sincere Sheryll

NLC
08-11-2004, 01:27 AM
Tink - I love both, fantastic work!
Improvement I can see, since you asked (other than sending them to me for a closer, more time-consuming exam - say a few years, give or take) is again about the breasts.

On the first one, they look too rounded on top - I learned that that's usually fake. Considering she has glass ones, I guess that's ok. :D
The second one looks awesome, but too distinict of a line around the bottom of the breast - looks like she just escaped from an underwire bra.

Neither of these observations should detract from the fact that these are absolutely breathtaking! Nice job, and to second Sheryll, take a bow and pat yourself on the back.

Nikki

Tink
08-11-2004, 01:30 AM
I should point out that the breasts on the second figure look exactly like mine. Which makes Nikki's observation so on the money re: underwire escapee. LOL!

NLC
08-11-2004, 01:34 AM
I should point out that the breasts on the second figure look exactly like mine. Which makes Nikki's observation so on the money re: underwire escapee. LOL!

Oh boy - hope I'm not in trouble for that one! I didn't know if it was angle or not, but it seems that way on the first pic.

Isn't it difficult sculpting glass naked in front of a mirror? :evil:

Tink
08-11-2004, 01:38 AM
Heheheh...

llglassdesigns
08-11-2004, 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tink
I should point out that the breasts on the second figure look exactly like mine. Which makes Nikki's observation so on the money re: underwire escapee. LOL!


Isn't it difficult sculpting glass naked in front of a mirror? :evil:
Too funny!



Your torso is absolutely lovely. She has an elegant sense of motion about her and the lack of arms, legs, and head give her a classic look. ("disempowerment statement about women"??? :confused: Ummm- I don't think all art has to make a social statement. Sometimes it is just beautiful to look at.) I also think you caught the 'dance pose' quite well. That is what I though she was doing when I first saw her.

Wonderful work, thanks for sharing her.

Deb

Fire Psycho
09-25-2004, 11:44 PM
Your lines, shapes and form make this piece scream beauty. It is a wonderful depiction of the female form.

You captured the essence of realism in that design, thank you for showing it.

Charlee
09-26-2004, 12:12 AM
My God, Tink, I am utterly gobsmacked. I could see where you were headed with the first one, but then the next... *thud* Someone said she looks triumphant...and she does. Makes me think of a nude Winged Victory. :clap:

MistyCherie
09-26-2004, 03:29 PM
Wow Tink! I'm totally envious! I think you are really there on the second one. It's very elegant and just gorgeous! I really like it in the frosted clear, and am sure it would look equally beautiful in a frosted ivory or frosted black.

Are you doing these on your torch, or at the furnace? I used to love watching the glassblowers do torsos... male or female...it's always awesome to watch the human form come out of a molten blob of glass.

Bravo!

*squishies*

-M

Anne Londez
09-26-2004, 03:42 PM
On some level, I feel my abstract sculptural work will continue to look amateurish unless I lay the appropriate groundwork.


I do figures too (took a class with Lucio Bubacco a few months ago and got hooked :D ). When I started I didn't know how to draw, hadn't any notions of anatomy. I realized that learning how to draw the human figure would help so I got into that and loved it, and it did help a lot. Did you know that Lucio spent several years learning to paint anatomy with a master painter to improve his glass figures ?
I have some up on my website if you're interested.
As to the first torso you showed, I didn't read everybody else's comments so it's probably been mentionned before, but it seems to me the breasts are too high on the torso, independently of the sagging issue. The second one is great !
Regarding photograph, I've struggled a lot recently trying to photograph my ivory figures and noticed that having a background that's too dark doesn't help because the camera overexposes the much lighter figures. I got the best results with a light gray background.
Hope that helps :wave:

Anne

Lesleyjoy
09-26-2004, 05:56 PM
Wow, I thought the first one was very beautiful! I am in no way qualified to give any critiquing, as I can hardly make a round bead and this socond one is just senuous and beautiful and so womanly and alive! Thank you for sharing them both with us.

Tink
09-26-2004, 10:50 PM
Are you doing these on your torch, or at the furnace? I used to love watching the glassblowers do torsos... male or female...it's always awesome to watch the human form come out of a molten blob of glass.

Thank you! :D I am doing these on my Barracuda using natural gas and an O2 generator.

Patricia'sglass
09-26-2004, 11:26 PM
Tink, she's absolutely beautiful and I think the breasts look completely natural. What a joy to see. :clap: I love the etched clear, too. Please share more.
Pattym

dread
09-27-2004, 01:36 AM
I like them all and dont see a thing wrong with any of them - no one body is perfect and thats what makes them so interesting !

Your work is inspirational and makes me want to try a nude ! ahhhh one day!

shaneanth
09-28-2004, 12:12 AM
This got me going... and prompted me to get the video "What is man?" too which I watched tonight and then went and tried it, so here's the male torso I made tonight, I can't wait to try female!!! Thanks for the inspiration!

Tink
09-28-2004, 12:46 AM
WOW! That's wonderful! I have always wanted that video. I love Milon's work and his business savvy. Keep up the good work!

CD Lampwork
09-29-2004, 12:02 PM
I like 'em Tink. Can't wait to see your next progression. I want to get back into doing human forms, but haven't had any torch time in WEEKS! And experiementing time has been nonexistant. But you're inspiring me to try and find some time for it again.

Greg

dread
10-02-2004, 02:37 AM
Thank you for inspiration - been afraid to try but here is my first nude - did it tonight - bad pic and I dont have sandlaster set up and used that stuff in the can just to take off the glare (messy stuff !) I'll fix later
I guess I like the chunky rather than smoothy body

!ngridh
10-02-2004, 01:06 PM
I think I got to this thread a little bit late...as for comments about the breasts...heck any nude model worth her stuff these days would certainly have breast implants...maybe a translucent bag behind each one would give the suggestion!


Actually I think it is quite lovely. It is a work of art and I like the stylized length of the body. The Curves are all attractive...I find it very pleasing to the eye...

Patricia'sglass
10-02-2004, 03:55 PM
Deb, I think your first nude is beautiful!! WOW! :clap:
Pattym

Jamn!
10-02-2004, 06:27 PM
Those are really pretty!!! :)

H

Amozoo
10-02-2004, 07:57 PM
oh my goodness tink, beautiful sculpture!!