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View Full Version : Ick here too!! Help!


bolimasa
08-02-2004, 01:37 AM
I seem to be the perfect imperfect beadmaker. I can be perfectly assured that there will my a "little" flaw in everything I make. I really liked the design of this bead, the colors and shape were pleasing to me. But then there have to be those couple of "sooty"(?) streaks on the right side of the bead. I could almost overlook those, but the second picture shows the other side of the bead. I obviously screwed up the encasing in one small spot, and it seemed to generate this "sooty" circle around it. Like a big bullseye screaming "FLAW - LOOK HERE - FLAW, FLAW!!! It really makes me CRAZY!

Can anyone tell me how to notget these sooty lines? I was sure when I switched to a minor that problem would go away, but that doesn't seem to have happened.

kybeadmaker
08-02-2004, 01:43 AM
Uh Linda....I think you forgot something...... :D

kybeadmaker
08-02-2004, 01:44 AM
Well what do you know...your pics didn't show up the first time and now they do.....or maybe my brain is just slow in absorbing pictures :p

bolimasa
08-02-2004, 01:55 AM
Well what do you know...your pics didn't show up the first time and now they do.....or maybe my brain is just slow in absorbing pictures :p

Just playing with you Harriet! (I screwed up the resolution on one and had to do an edit)

Briatha
08-02-2004, 01:57 AM
Linda what clear are you using?
Moretti has a tendency to soot if worked too hot.
Maybe try working out a little and turning down the propane some when using clear(any type) and see if that helps.

kybeadmaker
08-02-2004, 02:08 AM
Oh Thank God....I was thinking my brain cells had just called it quits !!!!
H

Juls
08-02-2004, 02:20 AM
Linda,

That looks like plain old clear moretti scum to me...

hugs~

bolimasa
08-02-2004, 02:22 AM
The clear glass is Vetrofond!

Briatha
08-02-2004, 03:07 AM
Linda Vetrofond will also soot if worked too hot or with too much propane.
Try working a little cooler and see what happens.

gwacie
08-02-2004, 06:18 AM
Hey Linda, nice bead (except the soot, I know..grrr!)

In addition to working the clear much cooler (how far out in the flame are you working? Remember to be in the middle to outer third for a cooler burn), you might also try cleaning the rods if you haven't done so. I find that finger prints and oils combined with working too hot or too reducing (a bit too much propane in the mix) will result in a little burnt nasty mess like that.

So:
Clean the rods well
Work out further in the flame
Work in a slightly Oxygenated flame (vs. neutral or reducing)
Send me that pretty bead (heh). Seriously. No really I mean it. Sure now you think I'm kidding...sheesh.

You could try grinding off the soot and slumping that bead into a cabachon if you have a glass grinder, by the way. Too pretty to junk it!

TwistNglass
08-02-2004, 09:03 AM
Linda,

I've been fighting the same problem all weekend. I found if I turn the flame way down and work close to the torch head, no soot. I have a concentrator and a minor. I'm reading that you have to use an oxidizing flame with clear and the best I can figure out, that means a pretty small flame. Drew Fritts discusses it in his book if you have it. I by no means have solved it so if you ever solve it, would you let me know? I'm a bit confused still about flame. I thought I had a neutral flame and since clear needs so much heat to melt it doesn't seem right that I should be working with a tiny flame. May be someone else here will no these answers. :rolleyes:

Rose

gwacie
08-02-2004, 11:14 AM
Hi Rose,
An explanation - I'm by no means an expert but I'll give it a shot:

Oxidizing flame = a mix of more oxygen than propane.

When you are on a concentrator your actual oxygen output/pressure is generally enough for a neutral flame (least that's been my experience) but to really get a flame which has a higher oxy to fuel ratio you have to turn DOWN the fuel because your oxy output is fairly static (i.e. you can't really make your concentrator put out MORE oxy). I switched to two connected concentrators this year and that made a HUGE difference in how large a flame, particularly and oxygenated flame, I could get - more oxy throughput, you see.

SO when you need a highly oxygenated flame with a concentrator you generally have to turn down the fuel which results in a smallish looking flame. HOWEVER don't be fooled into thinking that you have less heating power. More oxygen also means a HOTTER burning flame, just a smaller area to work in.

Hope that helps. Oh, and if I've managed to get it all wonked up someone please intercede!

gwacie
08-02-2004, 11:16 AM
p.s. that being said, you don't have to turn your fuel way down just to work the clear - you can achieve the same soot free results with the steps listed above:
1) clean the glass
2) work out FARTHER in flame (away from the torch)
3) oxygenate the flame as much as you are able within reason

All this clear talk makes me want to go encase something. I'm off to melt!

wmo
08-02-2004, 12:24 PM
It is a way cool bead. I can't make bicones to save my soul. Or organics.

I found Vetrofond clear almost as scummy as Moretti. I know Lauscha is more expensive but it is worth it. No scum, ever.

When you put Vetrofond or Moretti into the flame you'll notice glowing red swirls, those translate to scum which means black crap on your beads. It is on the outside of the rod and Loren Stump says its from scratches on the outside of the rod. Which didn't sound right to me but if you take a thick, 10mm or larger, rod of Moretti clear and peel the outside layer of the glass off, no scum. I'd rather pay the extra for Lauscha!

bolimasa
08-02-2004, 12:51 PM
Is there a "best place" to find Lausha clear??? I had hoped to try it but it seems like it was out of stock last time I ordered, so I decided to try the Vetrofond instead. I will try to work more on the cleaning. I usually just give the rods a wipe with alcohol but probably get them "fingerprinty" as I work with them and of course eventually work my way down to the part of the rod I hold.

Suzan.. you're a 2 concentrator girl right? Is it easier to not scum with 2? I'm working on a minor with natural gas and 1 concentrator.

GinnyHampton
08-02-2004, 03:10 PM
The clear glass is Vetrofond!

Before I even read any of the replies here, I looked at your pix and wondered to myself if you were using Vetrofond clear. I've gotten the same problem with the Vetrofond clear so I quit using it. I typically use what works best with my setup/working conditions/whatever instead of worrying about fiddling with my torch all the time. I'm on a minor with natural gas and concentrator too and have no problems at all with Lauscha clear, and honestly if I'm careful Moretti clear works fine as well.

I've gotten lauscha clear from glassdaddy.com and on Ebay . . . .bet if you do a search you'll come up with a couple of suppliers!!

Good luck :)

Becky Mason
08-05-2004, 10:32 AM
Linda,

You may want to try CR Loo for Lauscha. I use more Lauscha clear than any "color" of glass since I do a LOT of cased beads; therefore, I buy it whenever I can get it, in case all of the suppliers run out. As far as I know, Glassdaddy is out. The last time I bought it was from CR Loo, so it may be worth a try. Here is their number 800-227-1780 TOLL FREE. Good luck!

Becky
Orchid Blossom Beads

Onalee
08-05-2004, 11:01 AM
I was having that problem and then I threw all my vitrofond clear rods in the dishwasher and washed them with the next load of dishes and no more problem. I would try it before I gave up. Didn't work with moretti. And darn if I didn't specify that I wanted vitrofond rods and they sent me moretti on my last order and I'm going to have to reorder before I can do anymore encasing. Hope this works and if it does let us know. Onalee