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View Full Version : Poser - Creating rooms, furniture, streets, etc


bigblackbox
06-27-2004, 03:48 PM
Hi all. New to digital art and trying to figure some things out. I have a question about Poser 5, if anyone knows the answer or where I can find it (I've been looking, but no luck so far). The figures and posing them seems intuitive enough, but I'm not sure how you create an entire "scene", that is, everything in addition to the figure(s) - mountains, sky, rivers, or walls, doorways, desks, sofas. It looks like you can buy these things, but I imagine there is some way to make them as well. Any suggestions for how I can start looking in the right direction to figure this out? Thanks.

SoniKalien
06-27-2004, 04:16 PM
It is possible to create basic objects like rooms in poser. If you want your figure to be rendered in an outdoor scene, you can include a pic as the background (file>import>background image)

If you are looking at something a bit more serious, like Back From Hell (see my thread in this forum), you are going to need a serious program, like 3D Studio Max (my preferred), Maya, Lightwave or if you can't afford those, there's Truspace, Anim8tor and Blender 3D.

Objects like lamps and tables and things can be created in 3DS max (and other software) then imported into Poser. However, imoho its easier to export the poser figure and do the rest in 3DS Max - the renderer is much faster and you have more options and flexibility.

The figure in Back From Hell was created in Poser, then exported to 3DS Max, where I created the hole, lighting, surface materials and rendered the final image.

Anymore questions? Post 'em here ;)

bigblackbox
06-27-2004, 04:42 PM
The work you do is probably much more advanced than what I'm looking to do (for now at least). I basically just wanted to play around with animation and see whether it is a good fit for some of the things I want to do. My primary interest isn't making detailed, realistic, etc images, but in using time in addition to space. Basically, I'm more of a stick figure guy, but I want to use those stick figures to make a point.

Anyway, because of this, Poser looked good. It seems like a reasonable learning curve, and you have basic figures to work with. But now I'm not sure how best to use Poser -- or what software would be better. I'd rather not use several different programs (all of which I'd need to learn, and most of which are not easy to learn).

furrtig
06-27-2004, 04:44 PM
hello,
you can certainly do wonderful full scenes in poser. I agree that max, maya, c4 and vue are all excellent proggies, as i fiddle with all of these. But, you need'nt use them if you dont want to. When I get to my office puter tomorrow i'll post an outdoor scene done completely with poser.
for basic objects, you have to import them into the scene and move, size them to where you want. usually these are in the 'props' section.
for beautiful full picture scenes, go to www.daz3d.com and look for "cyclorama' i believe. you open these and they fill the entire background, and you can also pan the camera over to see more of it. beautiful beach scenes, forrest scenes etc. you can then open your fav character into that.
im sure thats what your looking for.
also, if you go to www.renderosity.com you can click on 'free stuff' and pick the poser option and can download a myriad of free poser props to add to your scene.
if you cant find any of this, just send me an personal message and I'll help all i can.

furrtig
(glad to be of some use!)

bigblackbox
06-27-2004, 08:01 PM
Here's an example of something - from Poser's web site - that I thought could be done with Poser, as it comes (that is, without buying all kinds of third-party stuff). I didn't think this particular animation would be easy to do, but I thought an easier version of something like this wouldn't be too bad.

http://www.curiouslabs.com/article/articleview/967/1/235/?nf=1

Is the type of stuff done here done solely in Poser? Or is Poser really just to make characters and then import them into other software?

Also, Poser's site gives some examples of comic book-type pages. I don't see how text (balloons) are added.

furrtig
06-27-2004, 08:09 PM
some of those pix are simply bitmaps with the poser char added in. you can toon renders but im sure 3rd party apps like photo shop etc would be needed to add text balloons.

furrtig
06-28-2004, 09:44 AM
this is certainly not quality work, but heres a pix using the poser cyclorama. in the swimming pix, the only post work was that i took it into photoshop and blurred it so it looked underwater kinda. everything else was poser.
im only saying that if poser is what u have now, u can use it to do some decent work, and MUCH better work can be done than what i do. so go for it.

coolray
06-28-2004, 02:25 PM
Hello furrtig,

I wanted to do the same thing in poser, though I have poser 4, I still thought there would be a way to get more out of it than just the figures. Of course you can find poser add-ons that someone has created as a complicated import object, but I didn't want to do that. I wanted creative control. So, I bought Bryce 3D. It allows you to import poser figures. The problem though is that you would have to import the figure, then give it it's material values of each object. It is labor intensive, but what you wind up with is a figure in a 3Dworld. Now all you have to do is create the world for your figure to live in. Bryce 3D also has an animation mode to allow you to move around in the world that you have created. What is left for a final problem though, is that you can't move the figure easy enough. No bone hierachy.

But if you are just wanted to create a static pic, then this is great. I have done some and then moved the whole world around to get the view that I wanted, then saved it. Plus you can use metallic materials on your figures and make them into robots if you wanted to. It's kinda cool once you get the hang of it.

Terry

furrtig
06-28-2004, 02:38 PM
true enough. the same problem goes for importing poser into most proggies. importing poser into cinema 4d was/is a lesson in patience! (i use poser 4 also). I've monkeyed with poser 5 and daz has a new poser'esque proggie out called daz studio which i believe is avail for free download while in its beta stage. it utilizes the poser stuff.
I've messed with some success with c4d, rhino, maya and max, but i never could even get off the ground with Bryce. the inerface was just too foreign.
Most of what I do is static, so so far, poser works for me as a jumping off point. My hats off to u for using Bryce.

Michael
06-28-2004, 04:06 PM
Wonderful advise here. I have been playing around with 3D trying to get past the basic learning curve, and the advise here helps even the basement novice like me...Thank you!

coolray
06-28-2004, 06:10 PM
true enough. the same problem goes for importing poser into most proggies. importing poser into cinema 4d was/is a lesson in patience! (i use poser 4 also). I've monkeyed with poser 5 and daz has a new poser'esque proggie out called daz studio which i believe is avail for free download while in its beta stage. it utilizes the poser stuff.
I've messed with some success with c4d, rhino, maya and max, but i never could even get off the ground with Bryce. the inerface was just too foreign.
Most of what I do is static, so so far, poser works for me as a jumping off point. My hats off to u for using Bryce.


*blushes* well thanks, but I'm not an expert at Bryce, just someone who found it so rewarding to work in. If you find something that works for you, then grab hold and use it until you know it forwards and backwards. I haven't done that completely with Bryce, but I am working on it.

I have animation master, but it is like a total new way of creating figures and animating them. I will have to study hard to master it.

Have you tried illustrator or coreldraw as a means to help you? I use coreldraw to import pozer figures too. I did a mermaid like you had posted, using corel as my finishing program.

Terry

peoplepainter
06-28-2004, 07:58 PM
Now I am interested too. I need a figure program for figure references only. Would Poser be good? I have trouble with figure refs but expecially lighting. WOuld it help?

Lisa

furrtig
06-28-2004, 08:20 PM
def it would help. you just open the figure of choice, say Victoria, and either self pose her or click one of the already made poses. as for lighting, you control the light. you can make it what ever color, direction etc you'd like. you can click the camera to show the view from what ever angle you'd like. for what your saying, i think it would be perfect.

furrtig
06-28-2004, 08:36 PM
try here http://secure.daz3d.com/studio/

peoplepainter
06-28-2004, 08:39 PM
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I will keep you posted as to the results.

Again, really appreciate it. Ignore my PM for now.

Thanks,
Lisa

bigblackbox
06-28-2004, 08:41 PM
Lots of interesting ideas here.

Now I'm thinking maybe my problem was trying for 3d, which could make things much more complicated than I need. I'm more of a "message" person than a "medium" person - that is, I have an idea of what I want to say, and need something (in this case, software) that allows me to say it. Basically I'm a writer who is interested in exploring what visual elements can add - content, emotional impact, aesthetically.

Ideally, I'd like to find an application that
- has basic figures and elements so they don't have to be created from scratch, but they can be edited. (Poser is great for the figures and some other elements, but it seems that if I need, eg, a car, then I need to buy it or somehow create it myself. The "somehow" is the problem for me, since I have no clue how to do this or how difficult it would be)
- automates the tedious work (light/shadows, tweening, etc)
- can incorporate text and sound into the animation
- is easy enough that I can create something relatively straight-forward, yet still interesting, from the get go. Maybe not in an hour, but I don't want to spend 6 months learning the basics.
- doesn't require a supercomputer
- doesn't cost a fortune

Or maybe another way to put this is -- what are the easiest programs for animation (mac or pc), and what can you actually do with them as a beginner and as you get more advanced? Are there examples on the Internet? (I'm kind of po-ed at the Poser people who put all kinds of examples on their site, but it turns out they were not even done exclusively with Poser. But I didn't learn that until spending $200 on the software).

bigblackbox
06-28-2004, 08:53 PM
If nothing else, this thread is helping me figure out what I'm looking for. Here's an example - not really of something I'd like to do, but similar enough.

A child is walking around in a park, sees some flowers, goes over and picks one, continues walking, sees someone sitting on a bench looking sad, and the child gives the person the flower.

It would be great to include some things like:
- bees buzzing around the flowers
- noises (buzzing bees, bird chirping, footsteps, maybe music or voices)
- facial expressions (adult smiles after getting the flower)

I don't really care if the "drawing" is black and white/color, 2d/3d, stick figures/cartoons/realistic.

I would get this animation would be 20-30 seconds.

The BIG questions:
1. What software would you recommend for this? Initially at least, I'd like to be able to do the whole thing (except probably editing sound) with one program.
2. If I were to go buy this software but I've never used it before, how long would it take to make this animation? Are we talking 6 hours or 120 hours? Or is it 50 hours the first time, but once you get it, a similar animation would take 2 hours?

Thanks from a hopelessly confused and insufficiently patient newbie.

furrtig
06-28-2004, 10:04 PM
if you go to www.renderosity.com and go to the freebie section, and choose poser, you will have tons of free things to download and use. some quite nice. cars, clothes, hair, etc. u name it.
as far as the animation, thats a good question. poser does do decent animation. lets say ur character is standing and you want your anim to have 100 frames. you would click the set key frame button, then move the time line to say 10 andmove your characters arm up and click the key frame again etc... poser interpolates the movement done between the frames and when played, he would move his arm up.
also, many poser characters have built in walk cycles that you can get. u simply apply them to the character and it automatically walks him. I have the horse run cycle and with you the horse gallops accross the screen.
are poser animations the best....NOOO WAYYY, but they work and are relatively ez once you get it understood.
for a more 2d anim program that also has a free demo for u is ToonBoom studio. with this you can draw on the puter or you can draw and scan your pic's into it. but this is old time animation, frame by frame.

bigblackbox
06-28-2004, 10:48 PM
are poser animations the best....NOOO WAYYY, but they work and are relatively ez once you get it understood.

I definitely plan to play with Poser more - it wasn't looking like the right thing for what I had in mind - or too time consuming for that - but it could be great for other projects.

for a more 2d anim program that also has a free demo for u is ToonBoom studio. with this you can draw on the puter or you can draw and scan your pic's into it. but this is old time animation, frame by frame.

Have you used this? I'm checking the info on the website and it looks promising. But again, I don't feel like I have a good sense of what's really involved and how difficult it is to learn. Any comments from people who've used ToonBoom are appreciated.

furrtig
06-28-2004, 10:53 PM
yes, i use it a bit. but you are in luck, because here is a great link http://www.steveryan.net/Toonboom.htm to a page where u can watch short video tutorials on how to use the program for free. (i love to watch and learn rather than read.....visual learner).

SoniKalien
06-29-2004, 02:32 AM
Hi All,

Looks like you're all having fun...

I use poser mainly for figure reference, but also to create figures which I import into 3DS max.. for various reasons.

As far as character animation - there isn't really any 'easy' program to do it in. If there was, you'd be disapointed with the results. Poser 5 is easy enough to create animations, however with any program, your going to have to implement, plan, deal with limits (eg a figures arm will only bend so much), animate more parts than you intend to - eg when a person is walking, it aint just their legs that move... there is just so much to think about.

But it's worth it. FYI 3DS max comes with a character studio where you can apply rigging and bones to make character animation easier...

But then again.. I'm not an animator :p

Woof-a-Doof
06-29-2004, 06:50 AM
Like SoniKalien, I am not an animator, but I have few years of Poser Experience, and general Digital Art experience. I would question as to why ya wanna use 3D in your animation?

3D, is CPU intensive. Each frame will have to be rendered, which takes time. Then the entire sequence must be rendered, which will take even more time. The more detail in your scene, will equate to more time while rendering.

Now, if ya look at 2D animation, which is not CPU intensive, but RAM intensive. If you look at using Flash, your work will be done in vector graphics, which are calculated much much faster than 3D.

Flash, is a killer application for animation! I have seen many many 3D animations, but they seem soooo labor intensive and last fractions of time. As I said, I am not an animator, too many moving parts for me. But if I was going to jump into animation, I would do it in Flash. Flash will allow me more creative style, add sound and a plethoria of other options. A web site I would suggest just to get an idea of Flash, try www.joecartoon.com . His humor may not be for everyone, but....joecartoon, is one of the foremost experts in Flash animation....the site should give a good representation of what Flash can and will do.

I am not downing Poser, at all, as I said I have used it for many years. I am not saying it wont do as you want. I am saying however that there are other options out there that might be better suited.

As far as the learning curve...ehhhh, it's pretty steep! It's difficult to estimate the time it would take. It's like anyting else, ya have to take time with any application, ya have to go to alot of websites,/forums to see whats being done with the application, you have to try and then try again, only to try again...The time you spend in any application will only help you becaome more profiecient.

Reading along here, I am also wondering, is all this effort for just one animation????

bigblackbox
06-29-2004, 12:41 PM
Thanks for the info. I don't need 3D - Poser just seemed easier to learn than Flash. But it seems I was probably wrong about that. Or maybe some things in Poser are easier, some things in Flash are easier.


Reading along here, I am also wondering, is all this effort for just one animation????

That's a good question. At this point, I'm trying to get a feel for whether I like animation. It may turn out that it's not for me at all. But I'm worried that the learning curve will keep me from figuring this out.

It's sort of like learning a foreign language as an adult - I know what I want to say, and I can (usually) say intelligent things, but if I have to speak German I have to change my thoughts to fit my limited vocabulary, knowledge of grammar, etc. and I end up saying something I didn't really want to say, and I didn't even say it well.