Stretching things just a bit...

[boarsrock]

Okay, I've talked to different folks here and in my hometown, and I've also looked on the net for advice. Stretching WC paper.

I started out using a staple gun (worked fairly well). Then I thought I'd try the gum tape (wetted).

I'm currently practicing on Arches 140lb Cold Press, and using a 1/2" piece of birch as the mounting board. When I soak the paper, let drain and put it on the board, the tape sticks like heck to the board but curls away from the Arches as it drys (I have wetted the tape before applying).

What am I doing wrong?! One WC artist in my hometown said she tapes the paper, but does it dry. She only wets the paper to move the sizing.

Any suggestions before I get my trusty staple gun back out?

[Javier]

Boarsrock,

The 'Simple Solution' is ---> go to Arches 300 pound paper.

Now I am not being a wise guy -- the 300 pound paper solves so many problem that it is just well worth the price.

There is another way to use 140 pound paper -- get the Arches 140 pound blocks.

I hope this helps.

Good Luck,

[boarsrock]

When you say your sister uses masking tape, is this on dry paper? The masking tape that I'm familiar with would not adhere to wet paper. Thank you for the response!

[T-Rex]

Okay, now I have a question....are blocks really considered "stretched" paper? I asked this of one of my teachers and he said no. They aren't soaked which alters the sizing and are not actually stretched, just glued around the edges.

Okay, so there is a difference between merely taping down a piece of paper and actually soaking and stretching, i.e. pulling flat and tight as a drum (using stapling or wet/glue taping)..... there seems to be confusion, or for me anyway.

So then that leads me to the point of stretching in the first place, so as to not have the buckling where pigment might unwantedly settle? Right?

How about this one. I've not stretched at all, I've merely taped and I've literally stapled and stretched. The biggest part of the entire process that I have found to influence how I choose to work is to wet the paper to even out or "remove" some of the sizing. I'm not thrilled w/ stretching and tend to "skip" that step if I can, but if I were to do certain kinds of work, really wet washes, I know I would want to stretch. 300lb paper still can curl, and I end up having to flatten out afterwards if I get it good and wet. Am I way off base here? I've read so many different techniques, I may have myself a nightmare.

[boarsrock]

It's so nice to have company. I appreciate anyone else here also baring their souls and questions. Also, does rubber cement basically double as frisket? Any reason it couldn't?

[Rod]

I wouldn't consider blocks as being fully stretched.

Your paper may be too wet when you apply the gummed tape.
I soak my paper for about 10 mins, let excess drip off and lay on the board. Then using a towel I smooth out the paper which also removes the water from its surface. Then wet gummed strip and apply and smooth down with my fingers. Never have any problems that way,
http://www.wetcanvas.com/ArtSchool/Watercolors/RodWebb/StretchPaper/index.html

Rod.

[Rosebud]

I'm with Javier.....300# paper !

I have a friend who uses an interesting technique. She soaks her 140# paper, then staples it to wood stretcher strips (just like the ones used for canvas). Folds the wet paper around the strips, then starts stapling in the middle of each side; pulls and staples closely all the way around. When it's dry, it's taut as a drum.
I had NEVER seen this before. She said an instructor showed her and she now does all her work this way.

Rose

[Astur]

Boarsrock:

I use the same paper (140 lb = 300 grm) Arches, and I use masking tape. If you put off the excess of water in paper surface (with a towel just in the macking area) the tape adhere enough. Sometimes it go away a little, but I discover that if I reput the mask in dry paper, even i you have some bubles, they disapear when painting. In this case, the paper is not complete straigh, but is not a big problem. Then after painting is done, you can wet it in the back side, put under weight (some big books) and let's dry.

BTW, 300 lb papes is SOOO expensive!!!!! :)

It work for me. Hope it help. See you

[T-Rex]

i've heard that rubber cement can be used for frisket, never tried it tho:) ....Karen

Rose's description is what I understand to do, except w/ an old frame:)

[BobH]

I had the exact same problem with the tape not sticking. The solution was simple (once I thought of it!). I wet the paper for 5 - 10 minutes, drain the excess water for a few seconds and then slap the paper on the board. Before I apply the tape, I take a dry, folded paper towel and "pat dry" about 1/2 inch border all around the paper. I then firmly press the wet tape onto this "drier" border and it holds like iron. No problems whatsoever.


Bob

[Studio224]

This is a sensitive subject...

I used to soak my paper then staple it onto a wood board. (Arches 140lb). Or I used blocks.

Recently I have started painting with the same paper but without soaking or stretching. I have noticed that even though sometimes I wet large areas of the paper, it doesn't buckle much. it's perfectly acceptable. And when it dries, it dries flat. Maybe its' because i use mostly only Arches?

Anyway, I'll think I'll stick with this method because stretching really is a pain ...

About the rubber cement, I would advise against it, it could (in the long term) affect the paper durability. It's not considered acid free and in the long term, the areas where it was used could start to show...

Anne-Claire

[Christie]

Rubber cement DEFINITELY has stuff in it that frisket doesn't. Splurge on a bottle of frisket. I have had one for years and it is only half gone. it is also more liquid than rubber cement.

I use masking tape on dry Winsor Newton 9or Arches) 140 lb paper and then wet it down to work on. It seems to work well, but my largest painting is generally 8.5 x 11". The only thing with this is that you cannot use leave the masking tape on it for months at a time or it leaves a gummy mess behind. I leave mine for a max. of a week and then change the tape if I am slow enough that it needs changing!

[boarsrock]

Thanks for so many ideas. I've made notes and will try the varying techniques. I do use frisket, just couldn't help wondering about the rubber cement.

Thanks again, and any other comments are gretly welcomed.

[Rich Williams]

I learned along time ago that if you stretch your paper either 140 or 300 you will not get hills and valleys when you work wet in wet.
I was taught a simple but effective way of stretching
soak in water 140 lb ---------20 min
soak in water 300lb ---------30 min
Then staple to a set of stretcher boards similar to what you would stretch canvas on. Let dry over night and the paper is as tight as a drum.
Nice thing is that this way if you make a mess of one side of the paper you just have to turn it over and use the other side.
Hope this helps and if you have any questions send me an email and I will answer any questions.

[RBANCROFT]

When I first started painting with watercolor I always stretched my paper (140 pound).

When using a full sheet I have found that It really isn't necessary to stretch the paper even when painting wet on wet. Sure you get a little warping but it's nothing a clip or two won't take care of.

-Rich

[pampe]

Used to stretch....rarely do now


Use Arches 140 usually now, staple it to gator board, artists tape the edge for a nice border.

Used blocks when the daughter worked at Pearl and I got a discount....love blocks, no fuss, no muss.

If I use 300lb Arches, I don't attach it to anything.


SIMPLE is best, and it seems not to make much difference.


Have used rubber cement...not a good idea....for one it is toxic.....Masking fluid is well worth the money.
Great thread!

Pam

[Kingfisher]

I agree with Bob H. it's simple, quick and always works great! I use Arches 140# Cold Press on a masonite board. John :)

[NorahT]

If I use 140 lb paper I always stretch it. I don't soak it, just submerge it in water, lift it to drain briefly and place on the wooden board. If necessary, I pat it into place with a damp sponge. I use a damp sponge on the gummed paper, but only wet half the width of the paper. No need to be too precise. Then I apply the gummed paper with the dry half on the wet paper and the dampened half on the board. Press into place with a dry cloth. Works well for me.

I have used the blocks, but find that the paper sometimes pulls away from the sealed edges.

I have recently started to use 300 lb paper and so far that seems to solve the problem of cockling :)

[SiennaSand]

Hope you have found a solution, but in case you haven't here goes:

I use Arches l40.

Wet the back of your paper, or if painting wet into wet do the both sides. Place paper on plexiglass, and paint away. The wet paper sticks to the plexi, and stays flat. If the back starts to dry and lift up before you are finished all you have to do is gently spray the back edges of the paper and it will stay down.

When I don't want to wet my paper, I just paint and when I'm finished, if I have too many hills and valleys I use the old method of wetting the back, put paper toweling on top of it and weight it down with a board or books.

Last "trick" is to gently iron the backside of the DRIED painting. I have not tried this method yet.

Good luck!

Sienna

[tammy]

Originally posted by Rosebud
I'm with Javier.....300# paper !

I have a friend who uses an interesting technique. She soaks her 140# paper, then staples it to wood stretcher strips (just like the ones used for canvas). Folds the wet paper around the strips, then starts stapling in the middle of each side; pulls and staples closely all the way around. When it's dry, it's taut as a drum.
I had NEVER seen this before. She said an instructor showed her and she now does all her work this way.

Rose

I'm curious, when they do this, do they leave the painting on the stretchers after they paint it. Guess they would not as most people put watercolors behind glass. Right? May be a dumb question but still I'm curious.

[Rod]

When I paint wet into wet I often allow the paper to dry completely between each session and rewet with clear water.
Sometimes the entire sheet or just the part I'm working on.
With it stretched and taped with gum strips I have no problems.

If you lay wet paper on masonite or plexiglass what happens later when it dries and you need to rewet all or just areas for further applications of paint ?
Does it still lay flat?

Rod.

[Kingfisher]

Rod, when I rewet the paper on masonite it stays flat when it dries. sometimes a small piece of an edge comes up but not enough to cause any probelms. I dry the edges about 1" inside the paper so the tape sticks better.

John :)

[SiennaSand]

Hi Rod,
If I let my paper dry, (it will be flat), but if I have to go back into it, I must rewet the back so it "sticks" to the plexiglass. Usually with a sponge, or large brush, then I gently smooth it onto the plexi. Make sure to keep your edges wet and flat. Wipe any excess water from around your paper, so it doesn't run into your painting.

Your method of stretching works beautifully, (and you can prepare several sheets at a time), but I don't have the room nor the patience to wait. My "studio" consists of a drafting table in a corner of my husband's den, so I try to keep things simple and "out of the way". I thought wc painting wouldn't take up much space. Ha!!

For what it's worth, in the November 2001 issue of Artist's Magazine, there is an article printed by W&N, and it contained a tip on how to keep your paper flat without stretching. (I gave my copy to a friend, so I'll just go by memory - which isn't what it used to be!).

Basically, it said using 300lb paper, wet the back, let the water soak in a bit then repeat the process two or three times more. Turn paper over. The front will be cool to the touch, but not wet.
Then you can start painting. It will stay that way for about 30 min. Don't know what you do then, or how this will work wet into wet. But just thought I'd pass it on.

Finally here's a tip I received from my favorite art teacher:
To avoid a possible poke-in-the-eye, put a piece of colored tape on the four edges of your plexiglass.

Thanks to you and everyone at WC I'm learning so much. You have all been very helpful and generous.
I'm thrilled to have found this great site!

Take care!

Sienna

[MALARKEY]

Lots of great ideas here I'll have to try.

Thanks Sienna, I just saw that in the artist magazine about wetting the back of 300lb three times flipping it over and painting..... I'm going to try that out this weekend.

[SiennaSand]

Hi Malarkey,

If you get the chance would like to know how Art.Mag. tip worked.

Also love "the beachgirls"!!!! So sweet and relaxing.

Sienna

[jaytee]

What a useful thread. :)

Pam......... please waht is gator board?

janet

[Faafil]

Janet,

Mostly I've been working off 140lb Arches blocks, which (in my opinion) doesn't count as stretched, because it really buckles when very wet...

I just recently received my full-sheet (23x31") gatorboard - it's a <B>very</B> lightweight, water resistant foam board to which you can tape, staple, attach your paper... It's about 1/2 inch thick, and comes in full/half sheet size (that I'm aware of)...since I'm not in the 'full sheet' stage yet, I'm ordering a 1/2 size (about 16x23")

I tried several times stretching paper by wetting and taping to a waterproofed board. (Hated it !!) My husband wanted to 'help' me by buying a 3x4' sheet of some 3/4" masonite/something, and cut it to 4 different sizes for me to stretch my paper. Believe me, it is waaaaaaay to heavy to even bother with, but since he was so accomodating and helpful, I still try to use it (when he's looking). :D :D :D The tape pulled off, paper still buckled, it was a real chore for me. Actually, I may use it for shelving purposes some day - it could hold a Buick I think!!

Since I'm such a novice at watercolors, my vote right now is for gatorboard (or if we can convince Arches - 300lb blocks !!) :D :D :D

[Dave Carter]

Been using recycled stretcher bars for many years with good results. Yes I have left some of the paintings on the bars (acrylics only) just to see what happens. A few have been mounted that way for several years now with no discoloration from the acidic wooden bars. This is just me, the tinker. When working with very wet paper I recomend adding a backer (foam/Gatorbord, masonite) to help support any sagging that may occur. Small works less than 16x20 in. can be worked without stretching if doing small areas like with dry brush or small washes, but masking tape (blue is best) can be used to hold the paper in place. Soaking paper for 30mins. seems excessive, I soak roll stock just enough to take the curl out, about 5min. The paper is then allowed to drip enough so I don't make a mess getting from the bathtub to the plastic laminate studio table where I lay it out. Next place the backer on the paper, then the stretcher. Starting in the middle of one side I fold the edge of the paper over the stretcher and staple, then do the opposite side working my way around, doing corners last. Stapling can be on the edge or on the back. A hair dryer speeds drying or stack/stand near a heat source (not too close I hope!!) The result is tight as a drum and in the case no backer was used, it IS a drum and when struck on the edge will give a nice sound. For small painting I made a template of mattboard that I weigh down to hold in place and the apply the masking tape quick and straight...same size every time and the paper does not have be cut precisly.

[jaytee]

Faafil

Thanks .

What a diplomat you are......... still, think how the masonite will develop your muscles !!

I must look out for gator board over here......... a bit disappointed its not related to alligators :D

[Rich Williams]

If your interested I did a demo on this subject at : http://pub49.ezboard.com/fpainterscafefrm40.showMessage?topicID=22.topic
HOpe it helps you decide what to do..

[Rosebud]

I'll ask my friend next time I see her and let you know.
I've seen her work framed and it was under glass. So I'm not sure if she cuts it off the stretcher strips, or has frames made large enough to add the glass in front of the work.

May be a while, but I'll find out.

Rose

[nick-50]

I have read with great interest this thread, as I am experimenting with stretching using the following method, as i am somewhat unhappy with gum tape. handprint.com, notes that the gum sometimes gets under the paper which i find may happen with snowdon cartridge.
I am wetting the paper as usual, for about half an hour for bockingford 140lb, then I lift and place it on masonite board, then I put 2 by half inch strips of wood around the edges. then I place about a dozen heavey duty nylon spring clamps which are inexpensive, around the edges of the wood, the whole lot gripping the paper.
So far it seems to work, and if this method is successful, it will do away with gum strip for good, and also leave a greater surface area to work on.
I would be interested to hear if anyone else uses similar methods.

[Yorky]

Well, when I started w/c painting I read all the books, got myself some boards and soaked and stretched 3 or 4 sheets ready to paint.

I used one of them, still have the others somewhere. :rolleyes:

I just use blocks or even pads - don't bother stretching - just apply masking tape around and over the edges and live with the slight rippling which occurs. Everything flattens out when it dries.

Doug

[baba]

LOL, I've had my share of glueing, stretching and stapling as well. The reason I stopped doing it is that I like well-sized paper and the soaking removed the size... Now I use masking tape and dry (450gms) paper like Doug.
BTW, I also had gummed tape coming off Arches, but it was impossible to remove from other papers. Ah, the freedom of not having to go through that tedious procedure - it wasn't only the stretching, but also the removing of tapes and staples!

[GOwenStudios]

Tape the paper to your board dry. Use Artist's Tape brand to tape the paper down. Then you can paint as wet as you wish without buckling. This tape is white and as a rubber cement adhesive.

[laudesan]

Great to brng this thread up again as someone else was asking about stretchng a couple of days ago..

I gave up on the gummed paper, because I found t would lift from the wc paper once dry. I was told this was because the gummed paper was too wet. I was also told not to wet the gummed paper just put it dry on the wet wc paper and it will stick like glue!! Only problem also is that it wont come OFF your wc paper you have to CUT it off..

I use Arches cold press blocks 140lb mostly.. and when I use pads (arches 140lb rough) I tape it too my board with painters tape and when fnished painting it lifts off beautifully leaving a pleasing white border around the painting. I can get pretty WET with my landscape paintings and I have no problem with buckling now..

I have been known to iron the back of my paintng before tho' :D I just spritzed the back with water put it face down on a clean white cotton pillowcase and put another pillowcase on top and gently ironed it.. ;)

[Gaegujange Nick]

Found this thread when searching for some info about stretching paper. Rather than start a new thread, I thought I would bring this one back from the dead. After all, it has lots of useful info and opinions.

I have been making watercolor paintings now for maybe 5 years and I have never once stretched the paper. I have been painting on Arches 140lb paper and I paint wet pretty often. I dont normally tape it down or anything. It does tend to warp a bit, but so far it hasnt gotten in my way. When Im finished I usually wet the backside down well with a sponge and press the paper under a stack of books. It works ok for the most part. Now, what has gotten me interested in stretching is the fact that recently some friends have become interested in my paintings and I am considering making a set for sale. If Im gonna sell some paintings, I want them to be top quality and hopefully free of warps.

I am more busy than lazy really, and usually I carry a bunch of pre-cut sheets with me to paint on in school or when I have free time in the park. I just tuck them into a sketch book. Im interested in trying to staple my soaked paper to something like a gator board. Thing is, I live in Korea and dont speak very much Korean. Art supply stores strangely seem in short order, and you can forget about the hardware store. Tried to find some 300lb paper the other day and could not. How different is gator board from foamcore? Do you need a heavy duty stapler or will a regular one work? Im used to having my studio and tools back in the US, but here its pretty minimal at what Im working with.

[gmarie]

Hi, Nick, did a search and found this article in the Learning Zone, it may help.
I'm sure others will chime in shortly.
Gatorboard/Gatorfoam (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=482837&highlight=gator+board%3B+foam+core+boar)

[Gaegujange Nick]

Thanks! It sounds like the major difference is the coating. Foamcore will warp when wet and gatorboard wont. So I guess foamcore is not a good backing to stretch watercolor paper on in that case. I will have fun asking the Koreans at the art store if they have gatorboard! Ha.

[juneto]

Gator board works well with Staples . Consider the size of your staples and how many you will put in .
Small, thin , almost side by side , Larger .more in the corners .
It works well when you fool with it a bit .
june:cat: :cat:

[Srishti]

Hi Nick,
Take a look at this thread.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4258628#post4258628
If you can't find Gatorboard then Coroplast (or Corrugated plastic) -the stuff they make election signs out of- might work. See if you can find it. Then you can glue two pieces together- one with corrugation going horizontal & one with corrugation going vertical.

[Kingfisher]

I have found that thin small staples don't hold the paper on gator board for me as it dries. I prefer large staples from a heavy duty staple gun, just my .02. Hope this helps.
J.

[MtLookout]

I use gummed tape on 140 lb. paper, wet both sides of paper, wet the tape and apply to 1/2 inch gator board. Once dry, it's flat as a drum. The gator board is very light to move around. I don't stretch 300 lb. paper.

Tom

[Hazartist]

A professor once suggested to me that you wet your paper on both sides--- like for hanging wallpaper and "booking" it and lay it on plexiglass. After the painting dries, rewet the bottom and set another piece of plexiglass on top. Haven't tried it yet. Has anyone used this process?

[MtLookout]

Great to brng this thread up again as someone else was asking about stretchng a couple of days ago..

I gave up on the gummed paper, because I found t would lift from the wc paper once dry. I was told this was because the gummed paper was too wet. I was also told not to wet the gummed paper just put it dry on the wet wc paper and it will stick like glue!! Only problem also is that it wont come OFF your wc paper you have to CUT it off..

I use Arches cold press blocks 140lb mostly.. and when I use pads (arches 140lb rough) I tape it too my board with painters tape and when fnished painting it lifts off beautifully leaving a pleasing white border around the painting. I can get pretty WET with my landscape paintings and I have no problem with buckling now..

I have been known to iron the back of my paintng before tho' :D I just spritzed the back with water put it face down on a clean white cotton pillowcase and put another pillowcase on top and gently ironed it.. ;)

JJ,

I don't worry about the gummed tape residue on the paper. It just gets covered over by the mat anyway. I guess that there are many ways to skin a cat...

Tom