Help- bad photo and good portrait?

[pencilnpen]

Hi everyone, need some comparisions here- I am trying to do a portrait of my mother in laws dad- the pic is from the 20's and was scanned and sent to me- he died before she was born and this is the only pics she has- next to it is my attempt- i am not happy with the shadow on the left side- ideas?

Robin

[soap]

Bly me - what a task to set yourself. The shadow seems odd because you'll have to make up what you see - and you see nothing there, just shadow.
To tell you the truth - I'd never do this - the picture is simply not good enough. I would not know what to paint in those shadows. Unless you can come up with some creative idea (collage, sillhouette, abstract, cartoon) I would not know.......

Maybe somebody else has more ideas than me.......sorry.

[jocelynsart]

Hi Pencilnpen: Yes, these are difficult.
One thing you can do is print out a copy of the photo and do a little altering right on the print out, working in that shadowed side. There is enough there to expand upon. Then, you can use that new reference to help you when you do the portrait. Do some roughs until you get one that looks right to you. Pencil pastels will work, to work in some detail and lights there. You can keep it pretty shadowed still, just define slightly.
With these kinds of portraits, trying to do them super realistically is usually very hard, unless you can find another ref photo that can help you with that shadowed side, a photo similar but of anyone, that resembles the lighting there. What I try to do with these type of commissions is something a bit more expressive or loose, following the reference as close as possible for shapes since it is the only one there is.
Good luck with it!
Jocelyn

[Kent]

As Soap and Jocelyn said, it's going to be very tough to work with this photo. Whether you do a loose, painterly version of the photo, or try to extrapolate the facial features, you need to give him a stronger shadow at the top of the nose, as in the photo.

Good luck,
Kent

[KingCrimson]

Hi Robin~
I think this is crying out to be done in charcoal.As Jocelyn & Soap say,to do this too realistically,you'll have to make up too much.
Just do it as more of a value study,block in the big shapes,darks,mids,lights, keeping those darks black,and so on,adding a few details where you can.
Actually,it could be done in graphite too,the same way.
Hope to see how it comes out! :)

[pencilnpen]

Hmmm- never even considered anything different than realistic, here is what I came up with, but the idea of a study in darks and lights sounds intriguing- I've never used charcoals, so good time to experiment- well tried to upload and guess its being finicky tonite, will try again later- what is the best way to keep charcoal from smearing?

Robin

[KingCrimson]

Robin,if your mom-in-law can recognise this photo as her father,that just goes to show how little detail you really need. ;)
To keep it from smearing while working on the drawing,just keep something under your hand while working,I use a piece of clear acetate so I can still see underneath it while drawing.
You can use all kinds of tools,like tissue paper,toilet paper,Q-tips,cottonballs,
tortillions & stumps,whatever,to blend with...use dirty tortillions & stumps to actually draw with for less defined areas,and don't forget the kneaded erasure,very important for lifting highlights,you can actually do alot of the drawing with the erasure after blocking in the darks,just experiment.Oh yea,try not to use your fingers to blend,the oils in your skin could create problems when trying to blend.
Just concentrate on the big shapes at first,whittleling it down with the erasure,and adding a little detail here & there,remember,the less detail the better on this one.Charcoal erases pretty easy.
If you feel it's not dark enough in areas,spray workable fixative over it,and that will add more tooth so you can go back in and layer more darks.
Just be careful,once you spray,you won't be able to erase on that sprayed layer.
Hope this helps,and you can visit Drawing & Sketching for more info :)
You can do it,and this is the perfect photo to try it on!

[pencilnpen]

Ok, this is about all i can make from the phot- still not completely satisfied, what do you all think?

Robin

[Susanabelle]

Ok, this is about all i can make from the phot- still not completely satisfied, what do you all think?

Robin

I say keep the darks as dark as in the picture; like the brim of the hat and the eye and eybrow on the left side of the face, even the strange shadow on the forehead, it adds character somehow. I would darken the whole upper lip as it is in the photo too.

It's coming along quite well. Don't give up and I'm sure you'll get what you're looking for.

Susan

[Andrew Rance]

Adjusting the brightness and contrast of the original picture in something like Paintshop Pro or Photoshop will reveal some of the hidden detail, viz below:

But the main problem here is that the geometry of the face in your rendition is not quite right. To get a good likeness things have to be in the right position. Unfortunately your reference pic is very poor quality, but I guess you are stuck with what you have - just a case of making the best of it. You're getting there!

[nafa]

Despite the lack of light and details, the photo has a sense of power. I see a man of character, rugged, and had a "come hell or high water" kind of disregard for risk.

Without other reference, I doubt if its possible to produce a protraite with more detailed features to faithfully show the man's true character. How about just producing a colorized version of the photo without attempting to add features to the shadows.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[KingCrimson]

Hi Robin~Andrew is right,it's all about geometry in a drawing like this,and values...I hope you don't mind,I took your latest drawing and edited it with a brush & smudge tool just to show the larger shapes and values of the photo ref,you could easily push your drawing in more of this direction,just keep it loose,you're getting it :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jun-2004/20448-Robins.jpg

[pencilnpen]

Thannks for the help on the photo, will be trying it in pen and ink, any go from some of the revisiions that have posted here, will let you all know how it goes-

Robin

by the way- i suspect the personality you described, fits right- seeing as he went to mexico and worked in the mines- :)